Trapped or stuck in a woman's body
elai...@cwcom.net
This was originally posted in alt.support.srs and it is posted here
because I drew a blank. *S*
Anyway I wondered if anyone had any similar experiences?
I have a post -op Friend who transitioned very young but recently she
confessed to me that she has made a big mistake and she shouldnt have
done it and stayed a man. However very personal reasons she didnt get
off the runaway train as SRS approached.
I was wondering and you can email me privately rtaher than post here if
any other post-op TS express regrets like her
hugs and best wishes
Elaine
elai...@cwcom.net
Elaine wrote:
>
> <elai...@cwcom.net> wrote >
>
> > This was originally posted in alt.support.srs and it is posted here
> > because I drew a blank. *S*
>
> Perhaps that in itself is a reponse to you?
weaver
confessed to me that she has made a big mistake and she shouldnt have
done it and stayed a man. However very personal reasons she didnt get
off the runaway train as SRS approached. <<
I haven't had SRS and don't have plans to in the near future. I've done
tons of reading about it and there seems to be an emphasis by most
doctors that the recommended 2+ years of HRT, RLT, counseling, etc.
nearly eliminates the possibility of regrets, but these doctors also
caution that there are plenty of docs out there who are willing, for a
fee, to let the therapy, etc. slide. These are where the "regret cases"
come from (or so they say).
Forest
Glenda
Much like in support.srs, most of the folk here are either helping others
in transition or in transition themselves. Few of us know post-ops that
were unhappy with that aspect of their lives. You may get at least one
reply from the ever malcontent anti-TS LB, which is certain to spark
a bit of flamage. I think the best course for your friend would be to seek
the most experienced gender therapist she can find and deal with her
specific issues, which will almost certainly be different from any others
you'll find that express regret.
You also failed once again to provide very relevant information concerning
your friend, age at start of transition, age at GRS, and years post-op.
Since you did eventually give that information on assrs I suspect that my
providing a bit more of her background (in your stead) here won't hurt.
The young woman in question is currently 27 and is 9 years post-op.
She began HRT at 13, evidently she had very supportive parents and
access to sympathetic counseling. Elaine stated on a.s.srs that her
friend had doubts about doing the surgery but was on a "runaway train".
I can certainly understand why she might have felt that way.
What Elaine W. hasn't stated other than looking for others disenchanted with
their results, is just what she expects to accomplish by putting these
folks in touch with each other? Nor has she stated why she feels that
a private discussion of the issues involved is more valuable than a public
one.
long lives, honest answers to difficult questions
cheers
--
----
Body by Glenda
http://homestead.deja.com/user.bliss_s/
<elai...@cwcom.net> wrote in message news:3A2BB44B...@cwcom.net...
> Hi
>
> This was originally posted in alt.support.srs and it is posted here
> because I drew a blank. *S*
>
> Anyway I wondered if anyone had any similar experiences?
>
> I have a post -op Friend who transitioned very young but recently she
> confessed to me that she has made a big mistake and she shouldnt have
> done it and stayed a man. However very personal reasons she didnt get
> off the runaway train as SRS approached.
>
elai...@cwcom.net
Glenda wrote:
>
Hi
"Few of us know post-ops that were unhappy with that aspect of their
lives."
Yes that seems to be apparent now or perhaps they are not sure of openly
mouthing their negative feelings openly.
You may get at least one reply from the ever malcontent anti-TS LB,
which is certain to spark a bit of flamage." Not so far this is a very
serious subject.
I think the best course for your friend would be to seek the most
experienced gender therapist she can find and deal with her specific
issues, which will almost certainly be different from any others you'll
find that express regret." I have suggested that many times but she
doesnt think that they can help. She felt that they failed her the first
time round so why should this be any different.
You also failed once again to provide very relevant information
concerning
your friend, age at start of transition, age at GRS, and years post-op."
I didnt think any of that was relevant to someone in the same boat as my
friend. However I have no problem with that.
I can certainly understand why she might have felt that way." Do you
how?
What Elaine W. hasn't stated other than looking for others disenchanted
with their results, is just what she expects to accomplish by putting
these folks in touch with each other?" Simple maybe any other
disenchanted person has a way of dealing with the significant downsides
my friend now feels and experiences.
Nor has she stated why she feels that a private discussion of the issues
involved is more valuable than a public one." I dont mind a public
debate on the issue hence the post. However rather than have one's angst
aired in public isn't really necessary and as you say just adds weight
to the anti TS lobby.
long lives, honest answers to difficult questions" Always
Elaine
Glenda
<elai...@cwcom.net> wrote in message news:3A2BDC7A...@cwcom.net...
>
>
>
>> I can certainly understand why she might have felt that way.
>" Do you how?
>
I probably should have said it's easy enough for me to hypothesize why
she might have felt she was on a runaway train.
I have teenage daughters, just as they struggle to acheive independence
and their own identities, they struggle just as mightily to avoid
disappointing
their parents in the process. It's difficult for teens to express their
doubts and
fears to parents and other figures of influence and authority in their
lives.
These factors often contribute to both teens and parents making misguided
assumptions about what the other really wants.
If my child were to express discomfort with their assigned gender from a
very early age, I'd be likely to be very energetic in seeking solutions to
that
discomfort. Being liberal and open minded I'd look for the liberal and open
minded solution, follow the SOC for gender dysphoria. A teen seeing their
parent invest this much energy and financial resource in helping them deal
with the problem, is likely to want to co-operate pleasing both the parents
and the professionals assisting them on their journey. It may be unfortunate
that both professionals and parents fail to dig deeply enough to discover
that the teen actually has serious misgivings about their course, but
certainly
not outside the realm of understanding.
The only way your friend can find help in the theraputic community is for
her to be willing to talk with a therapist without reservation, she needs to
be willing to be totally honest and forthcoming.
long life, best of care for both of you
TLM
>
> >>I have a post -op Friend who transitioned very young but recently she
> confessed to me that she has made a big mistake and she shouldnt have
> done it and stayed a man. However very personal reasons she didnt get
> off the runaway train as SRS approached. <<
>
> tons of reading about it and there seems to be an emphasis by most
> doctors that the recommended 2+ years of HRT, RLT, counseling, etc.
> nearly eliminates the possibility of regrets, but these doctors also
> caution that there are plenty of docs out there who are willing, for a
> fee, to let the therapy, etc. slide. These are where the "regret cases"
> come from (or so they say).
>
> Forest
I agree with Forest in this respect. Spend enough time living the role
to know if SRS is really for you. I personally am not surgery tracked. I
currently don't feel the need for it. I have lived fulltime for almost 1
year now. Still do not feel the overwhelming need for it. I do wish I
had been born with the "correct plumbing", but alas not. I am satisfied
with just living the role as far as I can. I would never rule out the
future possibility of SRS.
Tommie M.
http://www.flash.net/~tonmcc
Globe City
>confessed to me that she has made a big mistake and she shouldnt have
>done it and stayed a man.
In some cases such persons were never transsexual to start with. Here a few day
ago a confessed male said he was "trying to become" a transsexual. Either a
person is TS or isn't. There's no such thing as becoming one via trying.
In other cases life didn't turn out as they expected or hoped it would. Many
TSs pre-op or post-op are more or less poor financially. So I'd say if one's
income level or status is more important than living as a transitioned TS, they
probably never were TS to start with!
Hugs,
Wendy
Wykla
large? Does she have any problems "passing"? Does she get ridiculed?
Second, has she expressed her feelings about this to her parents? Is she
afraid of hurting their feelings (as in them feeling guilty that they may have
pushed her?)
Sometimes we all wonder what life would be like if we took the other fork in
the road. You know, the grass is always greener on the other side type of
thing. Both genders have their good and bad points... we have to remember
that.
I think even Renee Richards has some regrets that she recently talked about.
jenny7ts
eventually took their own lives because they simply couldn't cope with life
after surgery. I didn't know these people personally, but I did find out
that these folk DIDN'T live FULL TIME as a female for any length of time
before surgery - and thought everything would be okay after the op.
I know of a few others who are going in the same direction. Some just WON'T
listen to any advice from anyone. They're hellbent on doing what they think
they should do. For instance, one of the favourite quotes I get from these
folks is, - "I can't wait to start hormones so I can feel like a REAL
woman". SHOCKER!!! I try to tell them they MUST have these feelings FIRST
before considering taking any kind of medication - and seek the proper help
from the appropriate professionals.
These people tend to live as a MALE - go to see a psychiatrist (dressed as a
female) and tell them they have been living full time in the role. Clearly,
these people are lying to get the treatment they want. In the end, they are
referred for surgery when they DON'T have a clue what it's like out there in
the REAL world. I feel this is ONE of the reasons why some folks want to go
in reverse. It could be said that these people are not TRUE TS's, but who
knows?
I believe there MUST be a period where FULL TIME means FULL TIME. The
people who choose to pull the wool over the eyes of their
doctor/consultant/psychiatrist play a very dangerous game indeed - and do
themselves NO favours in the process. It's wrong to think that everything
will fall into place AFTER surgery. This MUST be done BEFORE the scalpel.
Jenny
Nicole Hamilton
> It's wrong to think that everything
> will fall into place AFTER surgery.
SRS was the very least important part of transition for me and on the whole,
has changed my life very little. Aside from doctors and electrologists, no
one's even seen what's between my legs. Most important and most satisfying
was achieving a change in my role, to be accepted everywhere I go as a
woman.
I like seeing a congruence between what's inside and what's outside when I
look in the mirror and I'm satisfied this was the right thing for me. But
about the only concrete thing SRS did for me with respect to the rest of my
life was that it allowed me to get certain documents, e.g., my passport, in
order, necessary to travel without restrictions.
Nor do I think my take on all this is all that unusual. I think many of us
stand at the gates to transition imagining that SRS will be the Holy Grail
only to discover after a year of living full-time and settling in to the
role that SRS is merely a final closure to mark that from then on, you have
merely to live the whole rest of your life.
Nicki
khaywa...@my-deja.com
>
> In other cases life didn't turn out as they expected or hoped it would. Many
> TSs pre-op or post-op are more or less poor financially. So I'd say if one's
> income level or status is more important than living as a transitioned TS, they
> probably never were TS to start with!
>
> Hugs,
> Wendy
Nearly two years ago, after 6 years of living as a woman, having
had SRS, etc., I very reluctantly made the decision to return to
life as a male. Why would I do that after all that time, having
enjoyed life as a female?
The simple fact of the matter is that the love of my life, Diana,
couldn't live with me dressing as a woman. She hated being seen
in public with me and we were always arguing about it. My work
life had also been a mess, but it was manageable -- the **holes
who I supervised just couldn't find it in their little black
hearts to accept me as a woman.
So what is going on now? I am deeply depressed and suicidal about
my decision to go back to living as a woman. Not a day goes by when
I don't regret the decision and wish I were still living as a
woman, but I love Diana too much to return.
A cautionary tale - if you have someone in your life before your
transition, don't assume for a moment that they will love you
and be supportive of you if you transition.
Kristin Hayward
khay...@khayward.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
KarenA1013
It's been a long time...
>Nearly two years ago, after 6 years of living as a woman, having
>had SRS, etc., I very reluctantly made the decision to return to
>life as a male. Why would I do that after all that time, having
>enjoyed life as a female?
>
>The simple fact of the matter is that the love of my life, Diana,
>couldn't live with me dressing as a woman. She hated being seen
>in public with me and we were always arguing about it.
I had that too with my spouse... but we are still together and she got past it.
> My work
>life had also been a mess, but it was manageable -- the **holes
>who I supervised just couldn't find it in their little black
>hearts to accept me as a woman.
Between that and you illness (which I hope you licked) you had it very hard...
being so damm out in a rural area has got to be the worst...
>So what is going on now? I am deeply depressed and suicidal about
>my decision to go back to living as a woman. Not a day goes by when
>I don't regret the decision and wish I were still living as a
>woman, but I love Diana too much to return.
I understand... the question is how much is live worth living the way you
are... I have a fair amount of experoence with depression...
>A cautionary tale - if you have someone in your life before your
>transition, don't assume for a moment that they will love you
>and be supportive of you if you transition.
And sometimes they do...
I know Macworld is gone from Boston ... but if you do get down this way you are
still welcome to stay a few days at my house.
If you want to write my main address is still k...@world.std.com
Best Wishes,
-Karen A.
Nicole Hamilton
> I do recall, Nicki, that you were very focused on Neena
> and very excited when the time finally came to go. :)
Ah, well, ahem, you have me there. Somehow, the story goes over better with
people who don't know me so well.
Nicki
te...@cx159572-a.elcjn1.sdca.home.com
> Nearly two years ago, after 6 years of living as a woman, having
> had SRS, etc., I very reluctantly made the decision to return to
> life as a male. Why would I do that after all that time, having
> enjoyed life as a female?
>
> The simple fact of the matter is that the love of my life, Diana,
> couldn't live with me dressing as a woman. She hated being seen
> life had also been a mess, but it was manageable -- the **holes
> who I supervised just couldn't find it in their little black
> hearts to accept me as a woman.
>
> my decision to go back to living as a woman. Not a day goes by when
> I don't regret the decision and wish I were still living as a
> woman, but I love Diana too much to return.
>
> transition, don't assume for a moment that they will love you
> and be supportive of you if you transition.
>
> khay...@khayward.com
(See my reply in email.)
Nobody who's demonstrated the courage and devotion you have can
be dispensed with. You will never be alone (no, not even if you
wanted to be). Too many people love you too much. Don't be shy
about having friends, we may be motley, but we're yours. Let us
help.
Unconditional love always.
Theoni
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"We shall bend Murgatrid's socks," the guard said reassuringly.
"Thanks!" said Leeming, "Damned decent of you."
"Merse, faplap! Amash!"
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/7462
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Glenn Olson
<vamp...@vampiress-au.net> wrote:
>They were so good at it, they even pulled the wool over the psych's
>eyes. Although I think that is debateable.
Greatest failing of the psych community, is when they care too much
about what society wants that they forget to look for what the patient
needs.
Paulinev01
>stand at the gates to transition imagining that SRS will be the Holy Grail
>only to discover after a year of living full-time and settling in to the
>role that SRS is merely a final closure
Yes, and years ago you and the others here told me that and you were right then
too. by the time I did have SRS it was time. not the bigest thing in my life
but the closure you mentioned. I am not sure if it was you or Claudia that
called and askd how I felt when I first woke up from the surgery. but I knew it
was right. and had no regrets about having it done.
WHEN ITS TIME ITS TIME
the hardest step of any journey is the first, the most satisfying is the last.
Now go take on the day
PAULINE/Paula
Kristal
> In article <20001204200107...@ng-ct1.aol.com>,
>
> A cautionary tale - if you have someone in your life before your
> transition, don't assume for a moment that they will love you
> and be supportive of you if you transition.
>
I agree with this. I also think that all possible partners should
be told that your intend to have srs and live as a woman as soon as you
know you will. I am sorry you are having problems now. I hope you manage
to resolve them and improve your situation.
Kristal
Wykla
to do with people regreting changing their gender.
As for people who lie to Doctors, therapists, and all... they are seeking to
escape their old messed up lives and seek a new life by changing their gender.
If you are a crappy person, or are an alcoholic, or drug addict before SRS, you
will be after SRS too.
SRS may change WHAT you are, but not WHO you are.
Globe City
I agree! When in university I mainly wore female man-tailored clothes and
casual shoes. On weekends and holidays I dessed in regular feminine female
clothes and shoes part time. Later I transitioned full time to female dress and
life. And I can say there's a BIG difference between the two
experiences--part-time and full time! Not only for life itself, but how one
feels, and what one does.
Hugs,
Wendy
Wendy
SiteSell.com--for website makers & owners
http://www.sitesell.com/globesales.html
Globe City Planet Shopping
http://www.globecityplanetshopping.bigstep.com
Globe City
>I don't regret the decision and wish I were still living as a
>woman, but I love Diana too much to return.
I know some married TSs have a problem transitioning or afterward. I was
married 8 years, and wore female gear during that time to the extent my ex
would allow. But it was never enough, and I was never fully happy.
I was always afraid she'd tire of me and find someone else, which she did. So,
although I didn't want her to leave me, nor later divorce me, I knew she'd be
happier without me. So, when she told me she no longr loved me, I said I
wouldn't contest her divorce. And didn't appear in court. So she got her
divorce by default.
Hugs,
Wendy
Karen A.
> If on the other hand you are hanging around because you are scared to be
> alone, or you think that there will be no one else for you out there,
> think again sweetheart!! There are plenty of fish in the sea and plenty of
> deserving women that would cherish the real you.
Those of us that have been around the newsgroups since before this one
was founded (and she had an important part in that) know Kristin. She is
one very special woman that has gone through a *lot* of hell in a large
number of ways.
My heart goes out to Kristin in oh so many ways... and I understand she
has to do what she thinks best. The situation is not simple...
Love brings with it much pain as well as joy. Only she can judge the
balance.
-Karen
Wykla
I've yet to meet anyone who had a simple situation. And anyone who said they
did is probably wacko.
Wykla
good you look or how well you "pass"...>>
Hmmmm.... I think I've heard that before. Oh, that's right. I said that two
days ago! :)
Stephe Thayer
jenny7ts <jenn...@ukonline.co.uk>
>
> These people tend to live as a MALE - go to see a psychiatrist (dressed as
a
> female) and tell them they have been living full time in the role.
Clearly,
> these people are lying to get the treatment they want.
What has shocked me is the T* people I've met who wanted to talk with me
about his stuff who are on HRT but living as male/men. I mean like totally
in the closet with their T*ness yet are taking full bore hormones. Then they
are talking about heading towards surgery yet are freaked out about being
seen as feminine until "It's over". I can't see that working at all..
--
Stephe Thayer
TLM
This I cannot understand either. Magically the "vagina" makes you a
woman and everything will fall into place: mannerisms, problems
disappear, other people's acceptance and support, ... Sheeeesh!
I can more easily see someone living the life for 1 or 2 years, then
deciding SRS isn't really necessary to continue living as they already
are.
(like am am doing now)
Tommie
KarenA1013
>remarked that I got through (sooner than required) because I looked good.
>And
>that is what it all comes down too ladies - how good you look or how well
>you
it's not all it comes down to but is *is* a big factor. If you can pass
unquestioningly physically 99.99% of the time and you want to be just another
woman an not a TS you will be happier.
Me I'm ~6ft and buit like a football lineman with big bones and a huge frame. I
pass pretty well these days after Dr. O but some people will aways wonder about
me and I'll never be seen as physically attractive.
I think I can do stealth but the queston will aways be hanging in the air.
-karen
Claudia W.
"Elaine" <elai...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mHOW5.34072$II2.3...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> <elai...@cwcom.net> wrote >
>
> > This was originally posted in alt.support.srs and it is posted here
> > because I drew a blank. *S*
>
> Perhaps that in itself is a reponse to you?
No I doubt that could be interpreted as a response in itself, I think it
could be interpreted that no one feels really comfy talking about this
"yucki" issue. This has been a very interesting thread on both NG's,
especially how much the issue was indeed avoided....... and your snappy
attempt to scare her off speaks for itself.
To Elaine W:
Forget what you read about post op depression. Being depressed about losing
an outlook, however much projections where placed into the future, is
different than regretting transition. No matter how your friend got to where
she emotionally is right now, important is that she differentiates whether
she is disappointed with the way her life is/turned out, or whether she
simply wasn't a transsexual prior to transition and became one after. Many
women I know have, at one point, regretted transition for a number of
reasons. It might be that expectations where to high, it might be that the
losses where just to much to bare (friends, family, partners and other
social aspects or financial, as women step down the coorporate ladder, not
speaking of depts created to finance surgeries), maybe sex life does not
"work" and so on and so on. The main problem here is that the individual
projected to much expectations to the "after life", forgetting or ignoring
that it is the same life, but the life of someone who had to get accross
more hurdles than the average person. Therefore, anything that "goes wrong"
(in the way of the projection) get's blamed onto transition and when
depression sets in and becoms self-feeding, transition itself may be
questioned. In this case, it is not a regret for making a mistake, but a
regret about leaving the main path to look for yourself and finding yourself
in the jungle and simply be overwhelmed by the consequences of transition
and the evaporation of deluded expectations. These forms of regrets are very
common and while they might leave the individual to question transition they
don't question the gender identity. Personally I'd say these phases are a
natural part of any transition, balance is not supplied by a surgeon and you
can't know what balance is if you don't sway....
Guess what, the prince with the white horse doesn't exist.
However, things become of course much more difficult if the indiviual simply
feels that the assumption to belong to the opposing biological gender was
wrong. We all start out assuming, it is a way of searching. But while the
transsexual moves, during transition from the assumption to certainty, the
non-transsexual moves from assumption to the realization that the assumption
was false and this realization might come while the optical/anatomical
transition is allready completed. Your friend needs to go to an experienced
gender therapist to sort out whether she is regretting having had to face
the consequences of a womans life, or wheter he was simply not a transsexual
prior to transition. She should not make any hasty decisions and it might
turn out that she is simply in a sort of neurotic lock and that she is not
stuck or trapped on a woman's body but trapped and stuck in a thought rail.
That she confided in you is already a good sign, now she (or he) has to
figure out what's _really_ wrong and take it from there.
Claudia W.
Claudia W.
<khaywa...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:90jcu4$gm4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <20001204200107...@ng-ct1.aol.com>,
> Nearly two years ago, after 6 years of living as a woman, having
> had SRS, etc., I very reluctantly made the decision to return to
> life as a male. Why would I do that after all that time, having
> enjoyed life as a female?
>
> The simple fact of the matter is that the love of my life, Diana,
> couldn't live with me dressing as a woman. She hated being seen
> in public with me and we were always arguing about it. My work
> life had also been a mess, but it was manageable -- the **holes
> who I supervised just couldn't find it in their little black
> hearts to accept me as a woman.
>
> So what is going on now? I am deeply depressed and suicidal about
> my decision to go back to living as a woman. Not a day goes by when
> I don't regret the decision and wish I were still living as a
> woman, but I love Diana too much to return.
Personally, I believe you need a course in selfishness. What's a
relationship worth when you have to self-depricate to such an extend that
you become suicidal. That's not a healthy love and you should see a
therapist to figure out _why_ she means so much to you that you'd
exterminate yourself for her.... you exactly made my point in the other post
of mine in this thread, you can't face the consequences of a woman's life.
You'd rather kill yourself. Saddens me, really, because you have a very
simple option: leave her and where you live behind and find your _own_ life.
Whatever is blocking you is not worth to die for. You might have feelings of
guilt - these can be dealt with. Do something but stop dealing yourself this
horror. Just imagine that in another 10 years you discover that these
feelings of love you have for her were nothing than aspects of a
guilt-driven neurosis? It is a possibility, you know...
> A cautionary tale - if you have someone in your life before your
> transition, don't assume for a moment that they will love you
> and be supportive of you if you transition.
Um, duh? And what do you do when someone doesn't love or support you? You
leave. It _could_ be so simple for you to regain _your_ life and not some
shell projection of someone elses. No one is gonna give you a holy shrine
for sacrificing yourself....
Claudia W.
Nicole Hamilton
> There are certainly no small number of rather butch
> natal women-- if it's good enough for them, who are
> we to argue? :)
I know from conversations with other postop TS women that I am =far= from
the only one suspecting that a fair number of them are FTM transsexuals in
deep denial. Nor should this be a surprise. Society does tolerate
masculine behavior from females more easily than it does feminine behavior
from males.
Nicki
Paulinev01
>leave. It _could_ be so simple for you to regain _your_ life and not some
>shell projection of someone elses. No one is gonna give you a holy shrine
>for sacrificing yourself....
>
>Claudia W.
>
Well I am one that tried to mak it keeping my wife. she became very bitter and
hatefull twoard my female identity. hid me from her friends. and complained to
my children in private.
I finally took maters in hand and decided that since she hated Paula that Paula
had to go. I moved 55 miles south and have filled for divorce. I gave it the
best I could but she never let up, and she came to hate Pauline. And thats me.
she has no clue as to her actions.
Claire Jameson
Nicole Hamilton writes:
> Aside from doctors and electrologists, no
> one's even seen what's between my legs.
How quickly they forget.
Claire
Nicole Hamilton
Oh, all right. Splitting hairs. But what you saw there on my hospital bed
looked more like a pile of hamburger with tubes coming out every which way
than what the final product looks like today.
Nicki
elai...@cwcom.net
teen years. She is extremely feminine in all respects even down to her
mannerisms and voice. She has been ridiculed an old boyfriend cost her a
job.
she hasnt spoken to her parents because it would destroy them. She was
the one that convinced them that she wanted to be a girl at the age of 8
now she is 27 and 9 years post-op she can hardly say I didnt want to be
one after all.
Yes I echo your sentiments about the grass being greener. It all depends
on whether you can see the grass before you try to climb the fence.
If renee richards had regrets then my friend isnt alone as it appeared.
Wykla wrote:
>
> I'd like to ask a few questions. First, how is she accepted by the world at
> large? Does she have any problems "passing"? Does she get ridiculed?
>
> Second, has she expressed her feelings about this to her parents? Is she
> afraid of hurting their feelings (as in them feeling guilty that they may have
> pushed her?)
>
> Sometimes we all wonder what life would be like if we took the other fork in
> the road. You know, the grass is always greener on the other side type of
> thing. Both genders have their good and bad points... we have to remember
> that.
>
> I think even Renee Richards has some regrets that she recently talked about.
Claire Jameson
Nicole Hamilton writes:
> "Claire Jameson" <ceja...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > How quickly they forget.
>
> Oh, all right. Splitting hairs.
Hardly, Nicki! Several of us traveled vast distances across the North American
land mass in order to take a peek at your newly formed genitalia. It was an
experience not readily dismissed.
> But what you saw there on my hospital bed
> looked more like a pile of hamburger with tubes coming out every which way
> than what the final product looks like today.
Nay, girl, it was beautiful in its own way even then. I can only imagine your
charms today.
Claire
elai...@cwcom.net
jenny7ts wrote:
>
> In Scotland, where I'm from, I know of at least THREE post-op people who
> eventually took their own lives because they simply couldn't cope with life
> after surgery. I didn't know these people personally, but I did find out
> that these folk DIDN'T live FULL TIME as a female for any length of time
> before surgery - and thought everything would be okay after the op.
As a fellow Scot, I think that's sad they should take their lives
because of bad care from NHS professionals. In my friend's case she
lived nearly 4 years full time, and three years part time. So she
satisfied the requirements. none of the other things you mention apply
to her. My friend doesnt reside in the UK.
> I know of a few others who are going in the same direction. Some just WON'T
> listen to any advice from anyone. They're hellbent on doing what they think
> they should do. For instance, one of the favourite quotes I get from these
> folks is, - "I can't wait to start hormones so I can feel like a REAL
> woman". SHOCKER!!! I try to tell them they MUST have these feelings FIRST
> before considering taking any kind of medication - and seek the proper help
> from the appropriate professionals.
>
> These people tend to live as a MALE - go to see a psychiatrist (dressed as a
> female) and tell them they have been living full time in the role. Clearly,
> these people are lying to get the treatment they want. In the end, they are
> referred for surgery when they DON'T have a clue what it's like out there in
> the REAL world. I feel this is ONE of the reasons why some folks want to go
> in reverse. It could be said that these people are not TRUE TS's, but who
> knows?
>
> I believe there MUST be a period where FULL TIME means FULL TIME. The
> people who choose to pull the wool over the eyes of their
> doctor/consultant/psychiatrist play a very dangerous game indeed - and do
> themselves NO favours in the process. It's wrong to think that everything
> will fall into place AFTER surgery. This MUST be done BEFORE the scalpel.
>
> Jenny
Claire Jameson
jafr...@my-deja.com writes:
> You got to see her crotch? I'm jealous!
I thought you were there, too, Julie. Perhaps you'd inadvertently
stepped down to the pub at the moment of unveiling?
On a related note, one of my favorite memories of that junket was Diane
navigating us through those windy hinterlands with her Global Lesbian
Bar Positioning System. Leave it to a bunch of trannies to come up with
a high tech solution to an age old problem.
Claire
LOVEJCBB
Also you said an old boyfriend has caused her problems do you think this could
be one of her problems? I dont know if I can understand her as I would have
loved to transition at 13. I wish her the best.
Emily
elai...@cwcom.net
"One reason I think she might unhappy is that transexuals cannot have
children." Yes she cant have children of her own. She was chemically
castrated long before SRS.
Also you said an old boyfriend has caused her problems do you think
this could be one of her problems?" It didnt help her because she lost
some friendships and made her very depressed.
I dont know if I can understand her as I would have loved to transition
at 13. I wish her the best." Yes I have offered to swap bodies with her
but that's not possible.
Thank you
Elaine
>
> Emily
TLM
I am not one of the helpless women either.
Tommie
-={Queen Vamp}=- wrote:
>
> Previously, on Days Of Our Lives, karen...@aol.com (KarenA1013)
> said:
>
> >Me I'm ~6ft and buit like a football lineman with big bones and a huge frame. I
> >pass pretty well these days after Dr. O but some people will aways wonder about
> >me and I'll never be seen as physically attractive.
>
> Well I'm 6'2" so I beat you on that score. Im not a whippet either but
> the grrly fat I have managed to aquire (mainly due to laziness these
> days) makes me look fairly big too. I personally dont really care what
> people think about me. Its what I think about me that I'm concerned
> with most... and I'm working on that as we type.
>
> -={Queen Vamp}=-
> -+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+-
> "Unpleasant Dreams!!"
TLM
Be proud, everyone needs to look up to the Queen!
:)
Tommie
-={Queen Vamp}=- wrote:
>
> Previously, on Days Of Our Lives, TLM <ton...@flash.net> said:
>
> >I am the runt, I guess. I am only 5'-9" and about 157 pounds.
> >I am not one of the helpless women either.
>
> Go away!!
>
> LOL
> I always wanted to be smaller, but what the hell, Amazons can be
> gorgeous too. If only I didn't amputate my right breast. Damned
> archery classes!!!!!
Globe City
I'm 5' 7 1/2" and weigh 135 lbs.
Wendy
Globe City
>did is probably wacko.
No matter how simple someone's situation may appear, it's still complex in some
ways and to certain degrees, even for ISs!
Hugs,
Wendy
Globe City
>woman and everything will fall into place: mannerisms, problems
>disappear, other people's acceptance and support, ... Sheeeesh!
It doesn't work that way for girls born with a vagina. So how could it for TSs?
Girls have to be taught to be proper females beyond the bit that comes
naturally.
Wendy
Globe City
>masculine behavior from females more easily than it does feminine behavior
>from males.
Right. the guys can say, "At least they're trying to be like us!"
Wendy
LOVEJCBB
birth to a child like a genitic girl could. Did her boyfriend tell other people
she was a TS and her friends rejected her because she was a TS? Most
transexuals have but one wish and that is to be fully accepted as a girl. I
can't help but wonder if your friend wants to live as a man because the people
in her life have rejected her because they know that she is a TS. When did she
decide that she made a mistake by having SRS? You said after she lost some of
her friendships she bacame depressed that leads me to believe she wants to go
back to be accepted as a person not as a man or woman but just to be accepted
as a person. What i'm trying to say is that since she wanted to be a girl at
such a early age hormones at 13 SRS at 18 and from your decriptions of her she
seems to pass as a woman I would assume the people in her life and their
apparent rejection of her caused her to believe that she was doomed to always
be an outcast. Her problem may be the result of having friends who really were
never her freinds. Her problem may not be a desire to be a man but the deep
human need to be accepted and to be treated with dignity and compassion.
Emily
Paulinev01
>looked more like a pile of hamburger with tubes coming out every which way
>than what the final product looks like today.
>Nicki
>
proof???? Inquiring minds wish to know. :)
Karen A.
>I personally dont really care what
> people think about me. Its what I think about me that I'm concerned
> with most... and I'm working on that as we type.
People always told me... and yes you have to accept yourself to be
happy...
but how other people see you has a *huge* practical effect on quality of
life. That's true even if you are not TS and is magnified for us.
Bottom line is that if you want a womnan's life and not a TS life you
have to pass pretty well IMO. Ideally it would not be like that ... but
the world is far from ideal.
Karen
Nicole Hamilton
> Several of us traveled vast distances across the North
> American land mass in order to take a peek at your newly
> formed genitalia. It was an experience not readily dismissed.
Oh, no, this was an act of kindness =never= to be dismissed. I still have
that "Countdown to Hamilton 2.0 Gold" clock on my desktop that K created
(now reading -625 days) and a day does not go by that I don't marvel that I
could be so lucky to so many wonderful friends. Before transition, if I'd
been in the hospital right here in Boston, I doubt there'd have been anyone
in my life (including my wife) that would've walked across the street to see
me. You all flew in from all over to be with me. I think about that often,
amazed by my good fortune.
> Nay, girl, it was beautiful in its own way even then. I can
> only imagine your charms today.
Got to thinking today. Turns out there was one time others besides doctors
and electrologists saw me. That was last spring when I was teaching in
Toronto. A woman in my class invited me to hang out with me, first, over
dinner, then later in the women's sauna in her apartment complex. There in
the sauna everyone was buck naked but no one noticed anything unusual. I
guess Schrang did a good job. :)
Nicki
Nicole Hamilton
> > here on my hospital bedlooked more like a pile of
> > hamburger with tubes coming out every which way
> > than what the final product looks like today.
>
Proof of what? That it looked like something from a sci fi movie? ("It's
alive!") Or proof that it looks perfectly normal today?
Nicki
Nicole Hamilton
> jafr...@my-deja.com writes:
> > You got to see her crotch? I'm jealous!
>
> I thought you were there, too, Julie. Perhaps you'd inadvertently
> stepped down to the pub at the moment of unveiling?
I remember you being there -- you remember declaring that Gene had given me
a very 'symmetrical' result? -- but I can't recall now who else was there in
the room at the time.
> On a related note, one of my favorite memories of that junket
> was Diane navigating us through those windy hinterlands with
> her Global Lesbian Bar Positioning System. Leave it to a bunch
> of trannies to come up with a high tech solution to an age old
> problem.
It's too bad we didn't have Diane with us in Gloucester. I think Little M
is =never= going to get over that first bar we wandered into.
Nicki
Stephe Thayer
Sali <nocturne...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:90m81r$rn0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <90kst0$1h7pq$1...@ID-52908.news.dfncis.de>,
> "Stephe Thayer" <ms_s...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > What has shocked me is the T* people I've met who wanted to talk with
> > me about his stuff who are on HRT but living as male/men. I mean like
> > totally
> > in the closet with their T*ness yet are taking full bore hormones.
> > then they are talking about heading towards surgery yet are freaked
> > out about being seen as feminine until "It's over". I can't see that
> > working at all..
>
> Ok, but in what stone tablet of TG rules that Thall Shalt Follow Or Else
> is it carved that one must use June Cleaver as a role model.
Nowhere, my point was these people PLAN on becoming June at some point "When
it's over." They tell me they DREAM of being June yet are afraid to show ANY
femininity until "It's over". They assume that after hormones and SRS they
will be women and sounds like their therapists are leading them in that
direction. Looks like a recipe for disaster IMHO.
--
Stephe Thayer
Karen A.
> I agree, but how far are you willing to let others idea of what a
> woman is determine your course of life/survival?
The thing is i know people who have suffered at a lot of discrimination
for being known to be TS.
On that score I'm a pragmatist. For example right now it probbaly would
not be a good isea for me to take a job with a very conservative company
in the US deep south...
> I personally don't plan to let it rule any aspect and henceforth treat
> it accordingly. I understand where you are coming from however, as I
> too was of that way of thinking at one stage. I guess I just got
> "tough" somewhere along the line and decided that it was no longer
> going to impact on my life.
IMO, the reality is, if people know it will impact your life practically
to some degree (though by your reactions you may have *some* affect on -
but not control - of the degree)... how much those effects impact you
emotionally is what you have the most control of.
-Karen
T A R T
<khaywa...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:90jcu4$gm4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <20001204200107...@ng-ct1.aol.com>,
> Nearly two years ago, after 6 years of living as a woman, having
> had SRS, etc., I very reluctantly made the decision to return to
> life as a male. Why would I do that after all that time, having
> enjoyed life as a female?
>
> The simple fact of the matter is that the love of my life, Diana,
> couldn't live with me dressing as a woman. She hated being seen
> in public with me and we were always arguing about it. My work
> life had also been a mess, but it was manageable -- the **holes
> who I supervised just couldn't find it in their little black
> hearts to accept me as a woman.
>
> So what is going on now? I am deeply depressed and suicidal about
> my decision to go back to living as a woman. Not a day goes by when
> I don't regret the decision and wish I were still living as a
> woman, but I love Diana too much to return.
>
> A cautionary tale - if you have someone in your life before your
> transition, don't assume for a moment that they will love you
> and be supportive of you if you transition.
I'm not an expert on these things, but from what you say, I think the problem
lies not in your dressing as a woman or living as a woman, but in the kind of
love Diana has for you. It has to be tough, I have complete and utter sympathy
for you.
Claudia W.
"Paulinev01" <pauli...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20001206165159...@ng-fj1.news.cs.com...
> >Um, duh? And what do you do when someone doesn't love or support you? You
> >leave. It _could_ be so simple for you to regain _your_ life and not some
> >shell projection of someone elses. No one is gonna give you a holy shrine
> >for sacrificing yourself....
> >
> >Claudia W.
> >
>
> Well I am one that tried to mak it keeping my wife. she became very
bitter and
> hatefull twoard my female identity. hid me from her friends. and
complained to
> my children in private.
>
> I finally took maters in hand and decided that since she hated Paula that
Paula
> had to go. I moved 55 miles south and have filled for divorce. I gave it
the
> best I could but she never let up, and she came to hate Pauline. And
thats me.
> she has no clue as to her actions.
I'm sorry to hear it did not work out, yet at the same time I am very proud
for you that you faced the consequences and decided to make your way. I wish
good things for you sweetheart and for you to the find the strength to
overcome your loss. Now you are free to find those people who love you for
you.
-C.
KarenA1013
>imagine that large ones who don't "pass well" would be more likely revert,
>but
>it isn't what i've seen.
My therapist explained it as that the ones who are very physically/hehaviorlly
feminine sometimes don't knon why they are doing it...
By that I think she meant that in some ways it's the path of least resistance
socially but they are not sure internally of their identity.
For us huge ones, we know it's likely going to be very tough and we have to be
very sure of who we are to do it.
-karen
KarenA1013
I don't intentionlly post that URL and as far as i know tehre are no links to
it anywhere.
-karen
Nicole Hamilton
> Shortly after I had transitioned (and I am 6' as well which
> isn't incredibly huge for central Europe, just very tall) my
> sense of self was "smaller" than my body ... Everything
> just kinda fitted which had the result that I stopped being
> stressfully conscious of my body. Nowadays I enjoy every
> cm of my body ...
I'm not 6', but at 5'9", I'm tall for a woman. Add on that neither my
hands nor my feet are all that small and it won't surprise anyone that I was
concerned that I'd be 'too big.'
Well, first, hands and feet: the answer is, if you can still buy shoes and
gloves in ordinary department stores (which I can, just barely) that's all
that matters -- and that's not because you're in trouble if you're bigger
than that, it just means you'll face inconvenience when shopping. People
don't pay attention to the size of your hands and feet the way we worry they
will. (But I admit what does matter is getting electrolysis on your hands
and arms to remove any coarse hair you may have.)
As far as height, oh, absolutely I would never want to be shorter! No way!
I have several good friends who are all about my same height and we all
chortle that anywhere in the range 5'8" to 5'11" is an absolutely great
height. Even an inch or so taller would be just fine -- better than being
an inch or two shorter. Being this height is not so tall that you attract
attention for being at all unusual but it is tall enough that men treat you
with respect because they look you in the eye, not down at you.
I obviously the same size I always was, but like you, it seems whole lot
better than it did before transition.
Nicki
Paulinev01
>the =absolute= minimum.
>
>-- Julie.
I see the lower figurs more often but there seem to be a group of care
providers that only wish to discourage us from going for it. If I were to
interview 3 T's who regreted it and then state that my research shows 100% are
unsatified. then it would be a published works.
From the few I have personally heard of, ones I have met or known. I would say
the percentage is 0.
stats are minipulated to fit the desired results. I dont trust any of them,
Gwendolyn Ann Smith
Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
> Oh, one thing I found out, that you may have known, is that she passed
> away on July 3, 1988.
>
> See <http://www.mpath.com/dani/>
July 3, 1998, not 1988.
Cheers,
Gwen Smith
--
. .
/\\//\ Gwendolyn Ann Smith * Community Host, Trans Gazebo
> () < Board Member, GEA * Columnist, Bay Area Reporter
\/()\/ Webmistress, SCCatl * Webmistress, Gender.org
"I want this to be a harmony of voices" - Lauren D. Wilson
**Posts may not reflect the views of the above organizations
mmcm
pre-op, but I am a professional who has done evals for Re-assignment. The
problem is that often professionals unfortunately don't always realize
themselves that a person may not only be distressed about gender, but also
may have serious problems handling life generally.
The "Paint Bloches" are still in use, and with the TAT(story pictures) and
MMPI are helpful tools to see just how healthy a person is if the
professional using them is aware that not every quirk or attitude that shows
up is the result of transgender issues.
Chloe McMahon
"-={Queen Vamp}=-" <
Glenn Olson
<claud...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>"Elaine" <elai...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:mHOW5.34072$II2.3...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>>
>> <elai...@cwcom.net> wrote >
>>
>> > This was originally posted in alt.support.srs and it is posted here
>> > because I drew a blank. *S*
>>
>> Perhaps that in itself is a reponse to you?
>
>No I doubt that could be interpreted as a response in itself, I think it
>could be interpreted that no one feels really comfy talking about this
>"yucki" issue.
When you say "speak up if this is true for you" and no one speaks up,
you've got two options.
The most logical, is to assume that means not many people found it
true. The other option is to twist silence into meaning something
else, which usually requires a lot of guesswork.
Every once in a while, the second option is the right one to take.
Usually, though, it's just a means of denying the answer.
Heather Donahue
| Well, coming up on 1 year (March) of 100% RLT. Before that maybe one
| year of 70% living. I have found that I am happy being non-op (for now
| anyway) and wouldn't ever take that SRS step unless I just could not
| live without it. I have effectively been chemically neutered by now. I
| just live my everyday social life as a woman. I do avoid situations
| where nudity is required for participation.
I have to ask why, including anyone else reading this?
I'm still seeing a therapist and haven't started hormones yet.
I 'feel', at least at this point, that GRS is in my future. I won't
know for sure until I get closer to that stage. I see myself living
full-time while still in college.
I know this word gets overused but the 'incongruity' of having that
'growth' between my legs and living full-time really bothers me.
So I have to ask, while living full-time does the gender-dysphoria
diminish that much? Is SRS really optional for many?
--
P.S. I'm so happy! I went out in public for real earlier this week.
I've been to the therapist's office and even modeled some clothes for my
neighbor but this was the first 'really' public place I've ever been to.
I went to a local restaurant with a few friends after a group session.
I thought I was going to be really scared until I walked in and my fear
diminished. I still felt a little self-conscious, like people were
watching me but I noticed that no one seemed to care.
Amazingly, I feel much better now about going out in public. I know I
still have a long way to go but this is a nice step to have finally
taken.
--
Heather Donahue
To e-mail me remove the SPAM
PGP Public Key available at http://pgpkeys.mit.edu
Claire Jameson
Elaine writes:
> But this is what RLT is all about. To show people the reality of a womans
> life and to "shatter" any illusions or fantasies one may have about it. I
> can't imagine any test that would be more effective except possibly to also
> require people to dissassociate themselves from the "gender community" and
> integrate themselves into ordinary society. I still maintain that SRS is too
> easy to get.
I have trouble understanding how the so-called "Real Life Test (or Experience)"
relates to satisfaction with surgery, however. That's mixing apples with
oranges.
It seems to me that living for a while as a member of the opposite sex would be
an excellent way to find out whether you will like living as a member of the
opposite sex.
But I don't see how living as a member of the opposite sex -- with your original
genitalia -- can tell you much if anything about whether you will like having
new genitalia. In my own case, for example, I'm quite pleased with the changes
in my body but have become increasingly annoyed with living as a conventional
woman. They're simply two different things.
Claire
Claudia W.
"Karen A." <k...@world.std.com> wrote in message news:20001207001026288068>
but
> how other people see you has a *huge* practical effect on quality of
> life. That's true even if you are not TS and is magnified for us.
I just thought of something. Shortly after I had transitioned (and I am 6'
as well which isn't incredibly huge for central Europe, just very tall) my
sense of self was "smaller" than my body, it was in that time when I
percieved my body separate from me, a bit like the disconnectedness DID (?)
patients discribe, almost as if i was living inside my body and therefore
the sensations I recieved from my body did not link with "me". What I mean
to say is that along the line my me melted together with my body and
therefore I didn't feel my body to be huge again. It was as if a smaller me
was living inside a huge body, but when I got my confidence and self-esteem
up and progressed, the me connected with the body again and my hight didn't
feel "off" again. Everything just kinda fitted which had the result that I
stopped being stressfully conscious of my body. Nowadays I enjoy every cm
of my body and it could be that this experience is what you are still going
trough. Know what I mean? That small little Karen needs to grow to fit into
that body....
(not sure whether I made any sense here....;-)
Claudia W.
Kristal
> Surprisingly enough the "regrets" rate has been pretty steady at
> around 2%.
What is your source for this?
Kristal
Paulinev01
>
>Nicki
If I need to see it, all I have to do is get a mirror as he did the same for
me.
I got a smile from your discription, and had to try and return it. :)
Paulinev01
>> Surprisingly enough the "regrets" rate has been pretty steady at
>> around 2%.
>What is your source for this?
>
>Kristal
I am not sure where Julie gets her inforlmation but I have read various reports
showing 1% to as High as 5%.
I would lean to the lower as it seems to appear more often.
KarenA1013
>that body....
>
>(not sure whether I made any sense here....;-)
I think i understand what you are saying... BTW have you seen any picyures of
me?
-karen
Claire Jameson
Elaine writes:
> "Claire Jameson" <ceja...@my-deja.com> wrote >
>
> >I have trouble understanding how the so-called "Real Life Test (or
> >Experience)" relates to satisfaction with surgery, however. That's
> >mixing apples with oranges.
>
> Well, I agree with that, Clair, but doesn't there have to be some
> prerequisite?
Honestly, no, Elaine. I think the idea that you have to hit some benchmark of
femininity in order to change your body rests on (and reinforces) traditional
stereotypes of gender which don't take into account the true nature of human
beings.
> What would you suggest?
Two things, basically: (1) better education to eliminate the stigma associated
with sex-based stereotyping, and (2) liability laws that make patients
responsible for their own mistakes if they voluntarily undergo surgery which
they later decide they didn't like.
> >It seems to me that living for a while as a member of the opposite sex
> >would be an excellent way to find out whether you will like living
> >as a member of the opposite sex.
>
> Yes, as far as it goes but IMO, one is not fully living as a member of the
> opposite sex until after SRS.
Yes, there are practical social limitations involving bathrooms and locker rooms
and other places where nude bodies might be exposed. Outside of that you can
live relatively freely as a member of either sex regardless of your genitalia.
> >But I don't see how living as a member of the opposite sex -- with your
> >original genitalia -- can tell you much if anything about whether
> >you will like having new genitalia. In my own case, for example, I'm
> >quite pleased with thechanges in my body but have become increasingly
> >annoyed with living as a conventional woman. They're simply two
> >different things.
>
> I don't believe that's too unusual. Many women refuse to live as a
> "conventional woman" but that doesn't make them any less a woman. I am a
> little surprised you separate the two though. My "genitalia" is integrated
> into my whole being as a woman, as a person. I don't mean to say that it
> defines me as a woman but it certainly is, for me, a major part of who I am.
And that works for you, Elaine.
Yet we know as a matter of fact that it isn't that way for everyone. Take the
case of the young person who's been under discussion here who transitioned young
and spent a good while living as a woman before surgery. He still wishes he
hadn't done it. Would it have made a difference if he'd been required to live
as a female for another year or two before surgery?
Or how about Kristin? She had surgery (which I don't think she regrets) after
several years of transition, but for personal reasons has elected to return to
living as a man.
And we all know TS people who've spent very little or no time living in the
opposite gender before SRS and have assimilated beautifully as members of their
new sex. Should they have been required to jump through the hoops?
My point is that there seems to be little to indicate that satisfaction with
genital surgery directly correlates to time spent living in the opposite gender
role beforehand. I am inclined to believe that people who eagerly adapt to life
in a new gender role are probably more likely to desire SRS, but don't think you
can draw the conclusion that the "Real Life Test" is therefore an accurate means
of predicting satisfaction with surgery. In the Kuiper and Cohen-Kettenis
study, for instance, the average time spent in RLT was over two years, and there
are many anecdotal experiences that similarly belie this as an indicator of long
term satisfaction.
Claire
elai...@cwcom.net
"What I meant by not being able to have children was that she could not
give birth to a child like a genitic girl could." No she never had that
regret if anything the regret of not fathering a child is greater.
Did her boyfriend tell other people she was a TS and her friends
rejected her because she was a TS?" Yes he told her boss and the stigma
was so great she left the company a week later.
Most transexuals have but one wish and that is to be fully accepted as a
girl." She is with very few exceptions completely accepted as a female.
I can't help but wonder if your friend wants to live as a man because
the people in her life have rejected her because they know that she is a
TS." No because she made a mistake.
When did she decide that she made a mistake by having SRS?" Immediately
after, she described it as hanging from the ceiling by her penis or what
was left of it.
You said after she lost some of her friendships she bacame depressed
that leads me to believe she wants to go back to be accepted as a person
not as a man or woman but just to be accepted as a person." yes that is
how I accept her. She is really a wonderful person otherwise.
What i'm trying to say is that since she wanted to be a girl at such a
early age hormones at 13 SRS at 18 and from your decriptions of her she
seems to pass as a woman I would assume the people in her life and their
apparent rejection of her caused her to believe that she was doomed to
always be an outcast. Her problem may be the result of having friends
who really were never her freinds. Her problem may not be a desire to be
a man but the deep human need to be accepted and to be treated with
dignity and compassion." yes exactly I dontt think I could have worded
it better myself. However as a female she thinks the mistake is always
there, dilating reminds her of her male past, she looks at her breasts
and wishes they were smaller or gone. Asked if she could grow her male
parts again, she would try anything.
Elaine
>
> Emily
Globe City
>lies not in your dressing as a woman or living as a woman, but in the kind of
>love Diana has for you.
It's real name is selfishness. She knows how imoportant being a woman is to
"him," yet won't put up with it. But only considers her own desires. Obviously
she isn't lesbian or BI. But other such couples manage to lvie together as
friends, roommates, etc. Or else each go their own way separately, remaining
friends or not as the cases may be.
Wendy
Globe City
this as pre-ops rather than post-ops.
Wendy
Wendy
SiteSell.com--for website makers & owners
http://www.sitesell.com/globesales.html
Globe City Planet Shopping
http://www.globecityplanetshopping.bigstep.com
TLM
Tommie
Globe City wrote:
>
> >I am the runt, I guess. I am only 5'-9" and about 157 pounds.
>
> I'm 5' 7 1/2" and weigh 135 lbs.
>
> Wendy
soanlou...@my-deja.com
pauli...@cs.com (Paulinev01) wrote:
> >Yup. Certainly no where near as high as 5%, but definitely 1% at
> >the =absolute= minimum.
> >
> >-- Julie.
>
> I see the lower figurs more often but there seem to be a group of
care
> providers that only wish to discourage us from going for it. If I
were to
> interview 3 T's who regreted it and then state that my research shows
100% are
> unsatified. then it would be a published works.
>
> From the few I have personally heard of, ones I have met or known. I
would say
> the percentage is 0.
>
> stats are minipulated to fit the desired results. I dont trust any
of them,
>
>
> the hardest step of any journey is the first, the most satisfying is
the last.
>
> Now go take on the day
>
> PAULINE/Paula
>
statistics were only invented to do mathematical probebilities and use
them to explode the first atomic bomb! however in human studies and
finding out the proportion of satisfied SRS and unsatisfied?...I don't
think we will ever be able to com up with a correct number!..it will
either show too high or too low, depending who doese the research!
Pauline/Paula has said it right! "If I were to
> interview 3 T's who regreted it and then state that my research shows
100% are"
Soan!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
TLM
year of 70% living. I have found that I am happy being non-op (for now
anyway) and wouldn't ever take that SRS step unless I just could not
live without it. I have effectively been chemically neutered by now. I
just live my everyday social life as a woman. I do avoid situations
where nudity is required for participation.
Tommie
TLM
serious and confrontational times we have.
Love to all,
Tommie
-={Queen Vamp}=- wrote:
>
> Previously, on Days Of Our Lives, TLM <ton...@flash.net> said:
>
> >> >I am the runt, I guess. I am only 5'-9" and about 157 pounds.
> >>
> >> I'm 5' 7 1/2" and weigh 135 lbs.
> >
> >I guess I am not.
>
> HAH!!! How's it feel now lil' Ms. Showoff??!?!?!?!
>
> LOL
>
> -={Queen Vamp}=-
> -+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+-
> "Unpleasant Dreams!!"
Karen A.
> Well, first, hands and feet: the answer is, if you can still buy shoes and
> gloves in ordinary department stores (which I can, just barely) that's all
> that matters --
Waht is the largest standard shoe size anyway? I have no idea as I have
to go to specialty stores.
> and that's not because you're in trouble if you're bigger
> than that, it just means you'll face inconvenience when shopping.
Women's gloves simply don't fit. I have to get the XL men's... no big
deal though.
>People
> don't pay attention to the size of your hands and feet the way we worry they
> will. (But I admit what does matter is getting electrolysis on your hands
> and arms to remove any coarse hair you may have.)
I shave my arms. They are still as hairy (very) as they were 5 years
ago.
I've had women notice the size of my feet... one small woman put her
foot next to mine and joked about it!
> As far as height, oh, absolutely I would never want to be shorter! No way!
> I have several good friends who are all about my same height and we all
> chortle that anywhere in the range 5'8" to 5'11" is an absolutely great
> height. Even an inch or so taller would be just fine --
With an average to slight frame/build. With a significantly larger than
average build/frame at > 5'10 you do stand out - and even more so if
you dont have the right curves to go with the size.
-karen
TLM
>
> Nicole Hamilton <hami...@hamiltonlabs.com> wrote:
>
> > Well, first, hands and feet: the answer is, if you can still buy shoes and
> > gloves in ordinary department stores (which I can, just barely) that's all
> > that matters --
>
> to go to specialty stores.
The largest I have seen on a regular basis has risen over the past years
from 10M to 13W in most stores in the Dallas/Ft Worth TX area. I wear
11W myself.
Tommie
> > and that's not because you're in trouble if you're bigger
> > than that, it just means you'll face inconvenience when shopping.
>
> Women's gloves simply don't fit. I have to get the XL men's... no big
> deal though.
Large women's glove fit me OK most of the time.
LOVEJCBB
transexuals will be able to relate to her. I can only wonder what it would have
been like to transition at the age of 13. From what you told me is it possible
she never was a TS. I can't quite comprehend how she could have been able to
convince her parents that she should have been a girl and today regrets it. Not
to be disrespectful but maybe she would have been happier living as a girl but
retaining her penis. This is a route many transexuals go and many are quite
content doing so.
Emily
Karen A.
> Well you could always email it to me should you be ok with that. I'll
> give you mine if you give me yours...
> :-)
LOL! If you are lloking for a post-Dr. O pic then I can't help you. I've
not had any taken.
-karen
TLM
So far I am, at least now that is is essentially non-functional. It is
nice and conveinient to stand and pee sometimes. This all I really use
it for anymore.
Tommie
TLM
You are one of the good ones here!
HUGZ,
Tommie
-={Queen Vamp}=- wrote:
>
> Previously, on Days Of Our Lives, TLM <ton...@flash.net> said:
>
> >I love this group. Just so much fun goes on like this. It breaks up the
> >serious and confrontational times we have.
>
> Comedic relief courtesy of Vampires Inc.
> Available for weddings, parities, (parties too) and anything going. We
> are having a special this month on Bris so get in quick!!
TLM
LOL
Tommie
-={Queen Vamp}=- wrote:
>
> Previously, on Days Of Our Lives, TLM <ton...@flash.net> said:
>
> >I know you know it, but I am saying it anyway.
> >
> >You are one of the good ones here!
>
> Well of course I know it, petal. I'm one of the good ones everywhere.
> I should really consider starting up a religion you kow.... hmmmmm
> *deep in thought*
TLM
Good night, Milady. I must be going.
Tommie
-={Queen Vamp}=- wrote:
>
> Previously, on Days Of Our Lives, TLM <ton...@flash.net> said:
>
> >No conceit in your family ... YOU have it ALL!
>
> Damn straight, woman!!
Nicole Hamilton
> Nicole Hamilton <hami...@hamiltonlabs.com> wrote:
> > Well, first, hands and feet: the answer is, if you can still
> > buy shoes and gloves in ordinary department stores
> > (which I can, just barely) that's all that matters --
>
> idea as I have to go to specialty stores.
Largest sizes usually available in department stores around Boston are 10M
shoes and 8-1/2 (on rare occasions, 9) gloves.
Nicki
TLM
> | year of 70% living. I have found that I am happy being non-op (for now
> | anyway) and wouldn't ever take that SRS step unless I just could not
> | live without it. I have effectively been chemically neutered by now. I
> | just live my everyday social life as a woman. I do avoid situations
> | where nudity is required for participation.
>
>
> I'm still seeing a therapist and haven't started hormones yet.
>
> I 'feel', at least at this point, that GRS is in my future. I won't
> know for sure until I get closer to that stage. I see myself living
> full-time while still in college.
>
> I know this word gets overused but the 'incongruity' of having that
> 'growth' between my legs and living full-time really bothers me.
>
> So I have to ask, while living full-time does the gender-dysphoria
> diminish that much? Is SRS really optional for many?
I don't know how many it is optional for. But it certainly is an option
for some of us. Or maybe at this time in my life, later it might not be
an option. I don't know at this time.
> --
> P.S. I'm so happy! I went out in public for real earlier this week.
> I've been to the therapist's office and even modeled some clothes for my
> neighbor but this was the first 'really' public place I've ever been to.
>
> I went to a local restaurant with a few friends after a group session.
> I thought I was going to be really scared until I walked in and my fear
> diminished. I still felt a little self-conscious, like people were
> watching me but I noticed that no one seemed to care.
>
> Amazingly, I feel much better now about going out in public. I know I
> still have a long way to go but this is a nice step to have finally
> taken.
Good for you. Much success and happiness.
> --
> Heather Donahue
> To e-mail me remove the SPAM
> PGP Public Key available at http://pgpkeys.mit.edu
Tommie
weaver
'growth' between my legs and living full-time really bothers me.
So I have to ask, while living full-time does the gender-dysphoria
diminish that much? Is SRS really optional for many?<<
I am wondering exactly what "living full time" includes. I am ftm,
non-op. The moment I knew for sure I was TS I had to stop wearing all
items of women's clothing, stop carrying a purse, etc. These things had
always felt awkward to me and I was very happy to get rid of them. I
realize its easier for bio-females to get away with dressing as men than
it is the other way around. Because my breasts are too big to hide
there's no way I can pass well enough to use the men's restrooms... so I
guess I can not be considered to be "living full time" though in my head
I certainly am. I am wondering where else (besides clothing and restroom
use) do you run into situations where things are different for males and
females?
Forest
Nicole Hamilton
> I am wondering exactly what "living full time" includes. ... I
> am wondering where else (besides clothing and restroom
> use) do you run into situations where things are different
> for males and females?
I think FT begins when you're ready to assert that you are not ever again
reverting to your old gender role. You change your docs (subject to any
legal restrictions beyond your control), you use only your new name and you
conduct all your business only under that name (again, subject to
restrictions beyond your control), you present only as your desired gender.
You no longer accept or encourage people to view you in the old gender role
nor do you accept or encourage an ambiguous impression of your gender. You
are now living in the new gender role and you internalize and externalize
the expectation that you have the right to be accepted in that role. (But
obviously, I'm not suggesting you must be militant about correct everyone
who ever slips and gets a pronoun wrong.)
Full time mean just that: full time, all the time, round the clock, all
year long and you're not going back. This is who you are.
Nicki
Claudia W.
<firefly...@cotse.com> wrote in message
news:976221181.3...@webmail.cotse.com...
> claudia:
> > Shortly after I had transitioned (and I am 6'
> > as well which isn't incredibly huge for central Europe, just very tall)
my
> > sense of self was "smaller" than my body,
>
> i've always sensed the opposite.
LOL, s'called delusions of grand, Dear;-)
-C.
weaver
again
reverting to your old gender role. You change your docs (subject to
any
legal restrictions beyond your control), you use only your new name and
you
conduct all your business only under that name (again, subject to
restrictions beyond your control), you present only as your desired
gender.
You no longer accept or encourage people to view you in the old gender
role
nor do you accept or encourage an ambiguous impression of your gender.
You
are now living in the new gender role and you internalize and
externalize
the expectation that you have the right to be accepted in that role.
(But
obviously, I'm not suggesting you must be militant about correct
everyone
who ever slips and gets a pronoun wrong.)
Full time mean just that: full time, all the time, round the clock, all
year long and you're not going back. This is who you are.
Nicki<<
Thank you Nicki, that was very clear. I qualify according to your
definition then, except in the very important part of "not accepting
abiguous impressions of your gender" since I can't fault people if they
fail to see me as I know I am at this point.
Forest
Claire Jameson
include the impossibility of "going back" or some other change. We've picked
our gender at least twice, why not again? Admittedly, my thoughts are colored
by the fact that I'm at an age where being an old man seems a lot more
attractive than being an old woman. Plastic surgery may give me another few
years, but it looks downhill from there.
Claire