"Sissy Sons: A Mother's Guide" ... A WARNING!!
Katie
On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:33:15 GMT, lbl...@ican.net (Laura Blake) wrote:
>This is not a Mother's Manual for anything but a particularly hideous form
>of child abuse. I urge all mothers of crossdressers to place no stock
>whatsoever in what this woman, or her child, have to say.
>
>Suzan has made it quite clear that she wishes this document distributed
>only to Mothers of sissy sons. I wonder why?
>
>-----
>Laura Blake
>
Laura,
I read the document you discuss some time ago and found it made me
uncomfortable then. You dissection of the motives behind that letter
now make me understand why that was so.
No my mind, the behavior the "mother" is advocating in this letter is
child abuse. Pure and simple.
I also believe my parents were abusive to me in that they withdrew all
emotional support from me when they discovered that the person who
they wanted to be their cisgendered little boy wasn't. Drove me so
deep into the closet that at age 46 I am just now starting to truly
deal with my TGness in an honest manner.
Thank you for this analysis Laura,
Katie
Please remove the "nospam" when responding by e-mail
------------------------------
"Things do not change, We do."
H. D. Thoreau
------------------------------
Suzan Cooke
Hello,
I'm going to start with a caveat. I am not truly convinced that this so
called manual is anything more than a well constructed piece of TV fiction.
That being said I am going to branch off.
I personally know three transpeople who were raised as girls. Two are
post-op Ts and one is Tg. One is a Mahu and the other two are Katoey. The
woman of Polynesian was a well known fashion model in the early 70's. At a
time when Stanford was using a graft her mother offered to give her own skin so
her daughter would not have to bear a scar that would harm her career as a
model.
The Thai girls both send money home to their families one is a waitress and
one has a small hair and nail salon.
Their cultural backgrounds are different from ours. It is acceptable for
mothers to sometimes raise boy children as girls in both the Thai and
Polynesian cultures. I'm not a cultural anthropologist so I have not explored
these child rearing practices.
Then there is the hateful so called Rev. sic. Fred Phelps who drags his
young children around the country to scream their filth at LesBiGayTranz
events. Where is the out cry that this is child abuse. Or for that matter KKK
parents who raise little Kluckers. Or the members of a hundred and one extreme
religious sects who home school their children and leave them unable to
function in the "real world".
At the same time we have Ts/Tg parents and even Gay/Lesbian parents being
routinely denied custody or even contact with their children. This is what
struck me as being false about the story, too many people knew and if as she
said she had to work that included some form of child care. Someone would have
called down child protective services.
But then again perhaps not. I saw a show with Daphine Scholinski on it and
there was a woman of African American heritage who had two boys and
rationalization a mile wide as to why see kept them looking like little girls.
As I pointed out with my alluding to the Klan and cults, there are a lot of
folks out there raising children in ways that if I were the supreme Queen
highest authority would not be permitted.
Could at least a bit of our squeamishness be internalized transphobia?
This sort of crosses into the area of gender self determination. Money
used to believe that children were pretty much blank slates and that if they
were intersexed and/or you accidentally fried their penis while circumcising
and you raised them as girls that all the socialization was done the child
would grow up totally accepting the assigned gender role.
Joan/John really messed with that theory. Pity after having cited the case so
many times in so many expensive gender theory books.
We all know that early childhood indoctrination works so well there are no
Gay, Lesbian, or Transsexuals. Well except in San Francisco and Los Angeles and
we all know that' California and what do you expect. Ok maybe there are a few
in New York too.
If it were only so simple. I was very sick as a 2 year old. I had polio
and had to learn to walk all over again. I was very indulged and was allowed
to have girl toys and most of my friends were girls. Again at about 5 or 6
when I started school what had seemed so natural at home meant I got a lot of
s**t at school.
Could it be I got those dolls because I was very sick and my mother gave
them to me because I wanted them. Green's Sissy Boys describes the sissies
preferences for girls toys and style of play.
Let's hypothetically say the story of Judi, Susan and Karen is true.
First what is the element of abuse? Second when does it occur? Third was Judi
harmed as an adult?
I have more thoughts on this subject but I want some feed back on what I've
just written.
TranZGrrlla
Suzan Cooke
Eileen McCleary
Hi, all!
That manual should be considered in the light of a rather
lengthy work called "I Made My Son A Girl" by Judigrl. I
first ran across it in a _fiction_ source.
Suzan Cooke wrote:
> ... Or the members of a hundred and one extreme
> religious sects who home school their children and leave them unable to
> function in the "real world".
Is this your *opinion* of home schooling, or do you have some
hard data to support such a statement? In my, admittedly
limited experience, home schooling has, overall, a pretty
good track record. Certainly, it has great potential for
abuse by parents who just don't want to participate in
the system, but the parents I've met, who have home schooled,
have been very dedicated instructors who wanted to be
certain that their children _would_ function well in the
real world, instead of graduating from public schools unable
to read their own diplomas. I regularly run across kids from
the local high schools who can't make change, and/or who give
blank stares at some fairly common terms. If the truth were
known, no matter where a child is getting instruction, if the
parents care enough to follow up, the child will learn - if
they don't, the child probably won't.
Huggs, sisters,
Eileen
--
spam_thwart: for e-mail replies, remove the *pie*- from the address.
stephe
T. E. Kallandra wrote:
>
> Laura Blake (lbl...@ican.net) wrote:
> > On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:54:54 -0800, Suzan Cooke <sco...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > > I'm going to start with a caveat. I am not truly convinced that this so
> > >called manual is anything more than a well constructed piece of TV fiction.
> > >That being said I am going to branch off.
>
>
> At the risk of being flamed for saying "my crank issue is more important
> that yours", we don't need gender fora being subverted by wannabe softcore
> porn authors who have no grasp on reality. This person should take her
> handbook to alt.stories.transgender or whatever the group is, and stop
> insulting our intelligence with dumbshows which only serve to overexcite
> the least stable among us.
>
This does seem alot like T* fiction and if not...damage is done.. Sure
forced feminization of a child is wrong but doubt I would have let my
sister dress me up if I hadn't wanted her to.(which I did!) Think about
it...I've heard other guys say "my sister wanted to dress me up and I
said hell no". I think you would have to be a little on the gender bent
side to even let them do it the first time .. Think about how much kids
bitch about doing stuff they don't want to do .. I did. Bitched about
cutting the grass, going to church, doing my homework, but never have
bitched about having to dress as a girl in my life! This story doesn't
sound like a kid being forced into anything .. I personally never did
things just to please my parents ... not something this big..And like me
wearing dresses make them happy? Them -not- approving didn't stop me and
I don't think someone would dress as a girl just to -get- approval .. If
so, there's alot more wrong here than just T* issues. You either are or
you're not, it's not a learned behavior.
--
Hugs Stephe
Stephe's T* Home http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Heights/8187
Suzan Cooke
Eileen McCleary wrote:
> Suzan Cooke wrote:
>
> > ... Or the members of a hundred and one extreme
> > religious sects who home school their children and leave them unable to
> > function in the "real world".
>
> Is this your *opinion* of home schooling, or do you have some
> hard data to support such a statement?
>
> Huggs, sisters,
> Eileen
>
Jeez Elieen
If this is how you parsed my original statement and you are a product of
home schooling then perhaps I have a bigger windmill to tilt at. Mostly I
was attacking home schoolers of the Klucker Snake Handler variety who I
generally find to be in the 70ish digit level of the Stanford-Benet.
But let me lay it out for you. Kluckers and Snake Handlers and even
Nazis get to raise their knuckle dragging pets with opposable thumbs to be
just like them. Despite being stupid, misguided racists and bigots they get
to raise their children. Not only raise them but raise them in their own
image.
If I were the Goddess in control of things these sorts of people would
not be allowed near children. Cappesh.
I want this to be a long thread so I'm not going to reveal the totality
of my arguement yet.
TranZGrrlla
Suzy
T. E. Kallandra
Laura Blake (lbl...@ican.net) wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:54:54 -0800, Suzan Cooke <sco...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > I'm going to start with a caveat. I am not truly convinced that this so
> >called manual is anything more than a well constructed piece of TV fiction.
> >That being said I am going to branch off.
> I am assured by the author herself that it is very much a true story.
At the risk of being flamed for saying "my crank issue is more important
that yours", we don't need gender fora being subverted by wannabe softcore
porn authors who have no grasp on reality. This person should take her
handbook to alt.stories.transgender or whatever the group is, and stop
insulting our intelligence with dumbshows which only serve to overexcite
the least stable among us.
Theoni
Kris
In article <34CBD0CE...@pacbell.net>, sco...@pacbell.net says...
> Could at least a bit of our squeamishness be internalized transphobia?
No, it has to do with the fact that it is obvious that this mother
manipulated the child into "choosing" to be girlish (not the same thing as
being "sissy" BTW - after all, most boys are called "sissy" if they do art
and writing rather than football and hockey). The mother obviously and by
her own words is uncomfortable with males and doesn't care much for boys
(and IMO she also married a boorish type so as to justify and continue her
chosen dislike).
Yes, there -is- a lot of child abuse going on - children are routinely
exposed to violence, hatred, and physical pain. But ignoring it in one
case (such as this one) doesn't make it disappear for the other cases.
Better to at least try to address it case-by-case.
> This sort of crosses into the area of gender self determination.
Which the child was not allowed. The mother didn't want a boy and
explicitly states she wanted a daughter, and she also told this to the boy.
IOW the message was clear: "Be my little girl or I won't love you any
more".
>Money
>used to believe that children were pretty much blank slates and that if
they
>were intersexed and/or you accidentally fried their penis while
circumcising
>and you raised them as girls that all the socialization was done the child
>would grow up totally accepting the assigned gender role.
Yeah, and my mother beat me, ridiculed me, and generally treated me like
shit because I wasn't enough of a "real girl" for her - she punished me for
even showing my abilities.
It didn't work. All that happened was that I hated myself almost to death
before I realized that who I was was NOT bad/evil/disgusting/worthless/etc.
Of course, she was just as delusional as the peabrain in this story, and
convinced herself and others that I was perfectly happy being her little
bimbo. The difference is that wheras I used to support her delusion (as I
suspect "Judi" is doing, if he really wrote any of theis story), I
eventually refused to be further partner to to.
> Let's hypothetically say the story of Judi, Susan and Karen is true.
>First what is the element of abuse? Second when does it occur? Third was
Judi
>harmed as an adult?
More info is needed but, from what I can get from the story (the worter's
own words are excrutiatingly revealing), it is clear that the child was
forced to feed into his mother's hatreds and delusions.
- Kris
pia p thadani
In article <34CBFA...@rhubarb-usa.net>,
Eileen McCleary <E_...@rhubarb-usa.net> wrote:
>
>> ... Or the members of a hundred and one extreme
>> religious sects who home school their children and leave them unable to
>> function in the "real world".
>
>Is this your *opinion* of home schooling, or do you have some
>limited experience, home schooling has, overall, a pretty
>good track record. Certainly, it has great potential for
Home schooling in general seems to work rather well, and I actually plan
to homeschool my kids (if i ever have kids) if at all possible, however i
think what the original poster was reffering to is a small group of
homeschoolers, not homeschooling in general.
I'm indian, and i know through my parents quite a few indian
people...so that's where this opinion is comming from. there are people,
muslims, hindu's and zorastrian mostly (in my experience), who either
homeschool or send their kids to schools which are muslim, hindu,
zoorastrain, or whatever...now this is ok in an of itself but at these
schools all lessons are taught in their native language, whatever language
that is for the religion, and a lot of times these kids are not allowed to
play with children from other schools, they speak a foreign language at
home, and find themselves ready for college not being able to speak or
read or write english properly, as well as not having any experience in
dealing with people from different cultures and religions. I think THIS
is what the original poster was reffering to, and I would have to agree
that if not abusive, this behavior is certainly detrimental to the child.
@>--`--,---
Pia
stephe
Laura Blake wrote:
>
> On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:50:40 -0500, stephe <ste...@geocities.com> wrote:
> >This story doesn't
> >sound like a kid being forced into anything .. I personally never did
> >things just to please my parents ...
>
>
> How old were you when you first knew?
>
> How old were you when you came out of the closet?
>
> Ever think about why you waited that long?
>
Good question .. I feel that my friends/society's view of it had more to
do with it than what my mom thinks, but who knows for sure. She's one of
the first people to find out about it and her disapproval didn't change
my feelings .. sure parents affect how we grow up, I'm not denying that,
but I feel that you are either T* or not. Maybe how I was raised had
something to do with why I waited so long, but it didn't change how I
feel about it, that was my point. I don't think your parents could make
you T* or not. Do you? I may be wrong, but I know that my parents not
wanting me to be like this didn't change anything about how I felt about
it.. Just might have affected how I dealt with it..
Donna Matthews
An interesting document... As for being a manual for crossdressing one's
son, I have to must say that it reads more like a story that a set of
guidelines. Not a bad story at that.
That said, here are my thoughts:
> The following pages are designed to provide a helpful resource for mothers
> who have chosen to dress or raise their sons as girls. As you undoubtedly
> know there are virtually no resource materials in this area and most
> mothers intent on pursuing this pleasure have had to walk a very lonely and
> secretive road.
Why would a mother 'choose' to do this? To me, the notion that this is a
decision made by a parent is nothing short of child abuse. Endangering
the welfare of a child probably says it.
> I have talked with mothers who were ostracized by family members for
> putting their sons in dresses.
And I thought *WE* were a secret little group!
> I too often second guessed myself thinking, What if my dressing Judi causes
> him to become gay ? Will sissifying him make it difficult for him to make
> it in the real world? Will he be abused and humiliated by the cruel
> remarks of those who do not understand a feminine boy?
In general, with the exception of it making one gay, I'd say *YES* to all
the above. We all have experienced the emotional pain society inflicts
on us because we are *different*. Again, to knowingly put a child in a
position of possible ridicule and humiliation is abusive!
> Judi was not allowed to wear pants. He wore dresses,
> petticoats, panties, nighties and other items of clothes appropriate for a
> four to six year old girl. Did I like him this way? Yes, I loved it. I am
> bi sexual and close friends who know about Judi have attributed my dressing
> him as a girl to my sexual proclivity. That may or may not be true but it
> did give me great pleasure to see my male child prettily dressed like a
> little girl.
Ah... It gets more and more twisted. Judi was not allowed to wear pants.
What about his sister? Was she? Was mom projecting some part of herself
into her son? Methinks that mom is not all there.
> Many times cross dressers on AOL have told me, "Judi, you are so lucky. My
> mother would have killed me if she caught me dressing". I understand fully
> how they feel. I am very lucky and very thankful that mother saw the
> femininity deep within me and chose to nurture it. The fact that she liked
> it too was an added bonus and I am glad that my wearing dresses brought her
> happiness rather than anguish.
Of course CDers thought he was lucky, it's a big dream of ours to live
and be accepted as a girl. That his mother recognized his 'feminine'
side and nurtured it is not in itself bad, its the way she went about it.
> It should be noted that at no time was my mother ever abusive to me.
> ...
> Mother saw the gentle side of me and felt that it could best be manifested by
> dressing me as a little girl. I am so happy that she did as I love being a
> girl to this day.
He turned out OK (lucky for him!) If he were in the state many of us wind
up in, perhaps he would have a different opinion.
> Judi was very fortunate in that the girls accepted him as a friend
> but he was not without problems. Judi has come home with a bloody nose,
> the result of his unwillingness to fight back when taunted by a bully boy
> who called him a sissy.
I personally can relate here (all too well). Mom's question "Will
sissifying him make it difficult for him to make it in the real world?"
has just been answered.
> But how do you teach a girlish child to be more of
> a boy? I made Judi wear boy's clothes all summer and did not let him dress
> up. Well, there were a couple of exceptions, but generally I forced him to
> be a male.
Good move, foster acceptance of a behavior counter to the societal norm,
then, tell the kid to repress it? I've wanted to snuff it over shit like
this! I'm in therapy now because of it, and don't know where the hell
I'm going in my life. Yea, mom, you're acting in this kid's *best*
interest!
> I must admit that I
> wished he was a girl and could go to school as one of the girls. It would
> have been so much easier, but Judi was anatomically a boy, and nothing
> short of SRS would change that. Did I think about having Judi made into a
> girl? Yes! I thought about it often but at the same time I was afraid to
> do it. It would mean surgery for my child. I considered the pros and cons
> and after talking with Debbie and my closest friends as well as doctors and
> psychiatrists, we decided not to do it.
Here we go... This is the clincher. Mom actually *considers* SRS for her
son, A MINOR! She makes Joan Cawford look like June Cleaver! Face it
mom, you didn't want a son to begin with. Rather than accept him as
such, and let him discover WHO he wants to be, you go and meddle with his
head. And she *discussed* this with doctors and psychiatrists? I should
hope that the decision not to do this was because they told her that she
was wacked!
This, to me, is the pivotal spot where this should be considered fiction.
I have real trouble with the idea that there were so many outside people
consulted on this and not one thought to tell some agency about this mom
and her antics?
> As he grew older I could see that he was
> attracted to girls in the same way that boys are attracted to them. By
> subjected him to SRS Judi would be thrust into a role that would
> necessitate his sexual orientation being changed too. Now you might think,
> "Well, he could always be a lesbian". Well, I did not want to manipulate
> the sexual choices of my child.
ROFLMAO! She didn't want to manipulate his sexual choices? Ferchristsake,
mom's manipulating a lot more. And, presuming that one can be MADE into a
CDer (a notion to which I do not subscribe) has put a restriction on the
number of and quality of relationship he might have.
> I am glad that I didn't as Judi, while being very pretty and very feminine
> today, does have a girlfriend who loves him exactly the way he is.
Well, lucky him! Too many of us can't seem to achieve that. Judi seem
to have caught all the breaks in life!
> Judi was a girl in his heart from infancy. He loved everything that
> girls love. I was faced with a definite choice. I could fret and
> complain that my son was a sissy or I could reason and say, "I am
> going to let him follow his natural tendencies". I chose the latter
> course and in so doing, I raised a wonderful child who is very loving
> and caring.
Why fret that Judi is a sissy? It is, after all what you hoped to
achieve. As for following his natural tenancies; forced is more like it.
Well, would I have wanted her as my mom? Given the fact that I am as I
am, I might gave had a happier (i.e.: more fun) childhood. But, lets be
real a moment. Assuming that there is even a grain of truth to this, no
parent should raise their child in such a way as to place them in either
physical or emotional harm. Even if the child truly were a TS child,
this is not the proper course of action. Too many conflicting signals
from too many different sources to allow for any 'normal' development.
Regardless of how we view ourselves, we do live in a bi-gendered society.
Raising a child, especially a male child, in the way described sets up a
very confusing set of circumstances in which to live. On the one hand, he
learns that there is nothing wrong with non-sex appropriate (I loath that
expression) activities; in fact they are encouraged (or forced). Yet,
when presenting to society at large, he learns that these activities are
something to be avoided. Nothing like having a custom made closet in
which to spend half of your life.
How would one raise such a child? Beats me. But this just isn't the
way. Judi was given no choice in the matter. That's abuse, plain and
simple.
Overall... an interesting story. I'd be more worried about the people
who request this 'manual' that the document itself.
Love and stuff,
Donna
--
He who has to do in secret what he does best and most likes to do, with
protracted tension, caution, slyness, becomes anaemic; and because he
never has harvested anything from his instincts but danger, persecution,
disaster, his feelings too turn against these instincts - he feels them
to be a fatality.
--
Donna's Hideout can be found at
http://donnas-hideout.org/
--
ICQ#: 7410262
Suzan Cooke
Kris wrote:
> In article <34CBD0CE...@pacbell.net>, sco...@pacbell.net says...
>
> > Could at least a bit of our squeamishness be internalized transphobia?
>
> No, it has to do with the fact that it is obvious that this mother
> manipulated the child into "choosing" to be girlish (not the same thing as
> being "sissy" BTW - after all, most boys are called "sissy" if they do art
> and writing rather than football and hockey).
>
> . But ignoring it in one
> case (such as this one) doesn't make it disappear for the other cases.
> Better to at least try to address it case-by-case.
>
> > This sort of crosses into the area of gender self determination.
>
> Which the child was not allowed. The mother didn't want a boy and
> explicitly states she wanted a daughter, and she also told this to the boy.
> IOW the message was clear: "Be my little girl or I won't love you any
> more".
>
> >Money
> >used to believe that children were pretty much blank slates and that if
<Snip>
> >and you raised them as girls that all the socialization was done the child
> >would grow up totally accepting the assigned gender role.
>
> Yeah, and my mother beat me, ridiculed me, and generally treated me like
> shit because I wasn't enough of a "real girl" for her - she punished me for
> even showing my abilities.
>
> It didn't work. All that happened was that I hated myself almost to death
> before I realized that who I was was NOT bad/evil/disgusting/worthless/etc.
>
> - Kris
As I said if I were recognized for the Goddess that I am and given my
rightful position of being in charge of everything there are whole lots of
people who would not be allowed to combine their miserable genes.
That being said. What I see going on in a blanket condemnation of Susan's
role in this story is a certain presumption that it would be wrong to raise a
child to grow up either homosexual or transgendered. Kluckers, Nazis and Snake
handlers get to raise their knuckle draggers to be just like them. But not
Gays, Lesbians or Transpeople.
We on the other hand are so cowed and so accepting of the idea that we are
inferior that we let our selves deny that we might like our children grow up to
be like us. I realize that saying it is a necessity for keeping our children
or even having visitation but I simply cringe when I hear a Gay or Lesbian or
Transperson say "Of course I would never raise my child to be Gay or Lesbian or
Trans." That is such a self negating, self loathing statement that I just
started crying as I wrote it.
I was an abused child. I was abused for my transsexualism and parental
love was withdrawn when I was caught dressing up at 12. I was disowned when I
came out at 20. When my mother died in 1991 I had not seen her in 24 years
because if I came home my father would kill me. I was not informed of her
death until I made one of the two yearly calls I was permitted. So perhaps you
may see why I am loathe to label this mother as worse than Mommie Dearest.
Let's say that we accept this story as true. Judi seems to have grown up
to be a reasonably happy adult CD so we have a happy ending.
TranZGrrlla
Suzan
Barbra
Donna Matthews wrote:
>
> An interesting document... As for being a manual for crossdressing one's
> son, I have to must say that it reads more like a story that a set of
> guidelines. Not a bad story at that.
>
was young I remember Mom saying she hoped I'd be a girl but she didn't
do anything special to make me the way I am. It would be a nice, neat
excuse, but Mom didn't make me this way, God or genetics, did.
Don't we all wish that when we were kids that Mom, an Aunt, or big
sister _made_ us wear panties? Nice fantasy! Not reality.
Barb (I would like to sign off as Barbie, but I can't compete with the
doll.)
Cassiopeia
Like you, I think forcing any child into a specific role is a form of child
abuse that I think they should outlaw. I was very much forced into a masculine
role when I was a child. Some things I accepted with relative ease, but other
things still have no appeal for me. Luckily, I've been able to reverse most of
the damage and live life like I want to, but I'm absolutely certain that most
people aren't that lucky. A child should be able to choose which gender roles
they wish to pursue. This option is being offered (at least for the most part)
to girls, why not boys as well? After all, when was the last time you saw a
woman (or girl) being questioned about their desire to wear pants or
participate in activities that are commonly accepted as being masculine in
nature? (This very argument played a very big part in my wife and I finally
coming to terms with my crossdressing.)
Cassiopeia
Cassiopeia
Thanks for uploading the text. I'll give it a read tonight.
My wife just reminded me of someone we both know who does something similar to
this woman, but in a different way. She dresses her two girls in complete
Victorian attire (even for school) and won't allow them to play in their very
frilly clothing (she sends them to private school to enforce this policy). Any
other children who visit the house are dressed in like manner, including the
boys. The problem got so bad that no one would allow their child near the
woman. Dressing any child like this is cruel and unusual punishment, but this
lady thought it was quite normal and desirable to do so. I met her once, she
was extremely sick and I have no doubt that she would have willingly dressed
her boys in feminine attire if she'd had any.
Cassiopeia
Kris
In article <34CCEFC5...@pacbell.net>, sco...@pacbell.net says...
> That being said. What I see going on in a blanket condemnation of Susan's
>role in this story is a certain presumption that it would be wrong to raise a
>child to grow up either homosexual or transgendered. Kluckers, Nazis and
Snake
>handlers get to raise their knuckle draggers to be just like them. But not
>Gays, Lesbians or Transpeople.
WRONG.
What is being said is that it is dicey to FORCE one's own displaced aversions
and ahtreds onto a child. The woman in the story specifically stated her
negative feelings about men. The obvious offshoot, which she well
demonstrated, is that she was incapable of loving her son and therefore FORCED
him to become her daughter.
IOW she didn't allow her son to be her son any more than many people allow a
T* son to be the daughter the child feels to be.
Get the difference?
> I was an abused child. I was abused for my transsexualism and parental
>love was withdrawn when I was caught dressing up at 12. I was disowned when
I
>came out at 20. When my mother died in 1991 I had not seen her in 24 years
>because if I came home my father would kill me. I was not informed of her
>death until I made one of the two yearly calls I was permitted. So perhaps
you
>may see why I am loathe to label this mother as worse than Mommie Dearest.
I was also abused - I used to get the shit beat out of me at worst, and at
best denegrated, shunned, and unloved, whenever I didn't act as brainless and
cutsey as a little doll. In my mother's opinion, I should have been passive,
airheaded, and knock-em-dead-beautiful. Nothing I ever did or achieved ever
won her approval. My pet budgie loved me more than she ever did.
In this story, I see echoes of her - there is the same intolerance for the
self, for the welfare, of the child, with all the emphasis placed on the
mother's needs, delusions, and so on. No, she didn't beat the kid with a
belt, the way mine did me, but she still pushed the child to conform to her
own aversion to men/boys.
> Let's say that we accept this story as true. Judi seems to have grown up
>to be a reasonably happy adult CD so we have a happy ending.
I don't accept that we -do- know this. I supported my mother's delusions up
into my 30's. Everybody thought I was perfectly happy. They were wrong. I
just didn't want to risk losing everyone's "love and approval" by letting them
know they were wrong. How do we know Judi isn't just pleasing Mommy? We
don't.
BTW your email telling me I am an asshole was ignored.
- Kris
Bill Stuart
Suzan Cooke (sco...@pacbell.net) writes:
> role in this story is a certain presumption that it would be wrong to raise a
> child to grow up either homosexual or transgendered. Kluckers, Nazis and Snake
> handlers get to raise their knuckle draggers to be just like them. But not
> Gays, Lesbians or Transpeople.
The children of kluckers and nazis are often institutionalized or
wind up on "America's most wanted". Ultra-religious people's chidren often
wind up in mental health facilities as well.
Gays, lesbians and transpeople don't raise their kids to be like
them because they know better. Nazis, klansmen, and others don't.
> We on the other hand are so cowed and so accepting of the idea that we are
> inferior that we let our selves deny that we might like our children grow up to
> be like us. I realize that saying it is a necessity for keeping our children
> or even having visitation but I simply cringe when I hear a Gay or Lesbian or
> Transperson say "Of course I would never raise my child to be Gay or Lesbian or
> Trans." That is such a self negating, self loathing statement that I just
> started crying as I wrote it.
It has nothing to do with inferiority. It has everything to do
with self-identity.
Raising a child to be a transsexual is every bit as bad as raising
a child to be a klansman or nazi.
Raising a child who happens to be a transsexual is much, much
different.
Sexual identity is not something parents should meddle with.
--
"What kind of rides would Fabioland have?" -Pinky
Shirley Ann Sometimes
I have not yet read the "Story".
That said, the author of this "Story" would and should be most gratified
to know that it came across with enough believability to cause this
thread.
"War of the Worlds" caused a panic when it was first broadcast (before
my time) on the radio. That is not the fault of the story, it was to
it's credit that it was so believable in terms of content and delivery.
The fault lay in not making it clear to the audience that it was a work
of fiction.
From what I have seen in the thread here, it seems to have pushed a
large number of the "buttons" that readers of this type of fiction
crave. Given that and the level of realism, it would qualify as a very
good story in the area of forced juvenile CD fiction. While juvenile CD
fiction is not to my taste, I have come across quite a bit of it as I
was looking for good adult forced CD fiction. This seems to follow the
same trail that a lot of the other stories follow except for the
presentation.
I repeat, I have not read it yet. If it is a true story, as some
believe it could be, I would have to say that I too would disapprove.
Why? I think it would be most cruel to unnecessarily expose someone who
is not otherwise predisposed toward gender ?________? as we are to the
punishment that society still deals out to most of us.
Now, here is another "Story" that seems to ring true and could well be
believed to be true. It was written by one of us here in the group and
will probably be most acceptable as a good example when compared to the
other story being discussed. Take a look at it and even enjoy it. The
writer may chose to make herself known if she wants to take a bow.
http://library.gaycafe.com/nifty/transgender/by_authors/Princess_Pervette/being-jenny
Camille
I'm with you. Drawing so much attention to such obviously warped fantasy
is really making a big stink about nothing. And I'm sure the author
continues to get his rocks off by all this "controversy".......
Bill Stuart
Brenda Last (galle...@earthlink.net) writes:
> Bill Stuart <ah...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>> The children of kluckers and nazis are often institutionalized or
>> wind up on "America's most wanted". Ultra-religious people's chidren often
>> wind up in mental health facilities as well. Gays, lesbians and
>> transpeople don't raise their kids to be like them because they know
>> better. Nazis, klansmen, and others don't.
>
> Bill Stuart, for those of you who just arrived, was former Gauleiter for
> Manitoba and Saskatchewan in the Canadian National Socialist Party.
Where did you deduce this from?
> (Whoops! Not true, Bill? Do I have the wrong Bill Stuart? Hmmm. Perhaps
> then you can tell us what evidence or experience you're basing your
> remarks upon.)
Perhaps you should read the above again, and add "Nazis, Klansmen,
and others don't (Know well enough to raise their children in restrictive
enviroments)". In the line where gays, lesbians, and transpeople don't
raise their kids to be like them because they know better, it is the
parents who know not to raise their children to be a specific way, rather
than the child "knowing better".
Your sentence above seems to imply that you knew you had the wrong
bill stuart all along, and simply wanted to call me a nazi for some weird
reason i have yet to fathom.
To clear it up, i am pro-glbt, and anti-nazi.
calang...@gmail.com
She lives as a male and has girlfriends but in private she dresses up as a female and is bi-sexual another hurdle i had to get over. If she was just a crossdresser it would be easier but with the help of a therapist and a friend who is really educated on this subject it wouldn't be as easy.
The one thing i do have to admit is she is very beautiful and looks happier as a female.
When i visit her home "out of state" she lives as the female in a male on male relationship with a occassional female playmate which my daughter brings in the relationship. Her man is very straight has a wife who doesn't know about this lifestyle but her "daddy" is in and out of her house so she has to be ready at all times if he drops by as a female. Her female friends have helped me tremendously on accepting this lifestyle.
I have 3 other alpha male sons who do not know about this but in many ways its like having the daughter I've always wanted but never had until now!
Its been about 12 years now so seeing her in lingerie or with a male lover its become very natural to see her in her feminine form its almost very odd to see her as a male in her daily public life. She works from home now so shes female about 85% of the time and she is very discreet so no one knows about her other life accept people she tells this too.
Kimberly is very passable in public as well so we have gone shopping together at Fredrick's and other risque shops so I'm fitting in the best way i can which has become easier through the years.
Am i doing the right thing? I really see her as a daughter a real woman she is so much happier?