You Can Never Go Home
wondr...@aol.com
In article <57rnnl$o...@lana.zippo.com>, j...@tab.com (JF Haugh) writes:
>This is our reward for being authentic. Instead of praise and
>support for daring to live as ourselves, we receive abuse and
>rejection.
Sad thing is: Many people don`t appreciate the strength/authenticity of
others but insist they should live keeping up to THEIR standards. If those
expectations are shattered, they feel betrayed, because they don`t seem to
have enough strength in themselves to live their own lives.
I don`t know your brother, so I can`t say if this goes for him. But don`t
let him steer your ship. You`re the captain.
Mmh, after all: Be his Big Sister. He soon will notice (if he wants to)
that you`re the same as you ever were, but finally yourself. He may take
his advantages out of this.
Walk your path with head held high
Sharon
spunky
> Sad thing is: Many people don`t appreciate the strength/authenticity of
> others but insist they should live keeping up to THEIR standards. If those
> expectations are shattered, they feel betrayed, because they don`t seem to
> have enough strength in themselves to live their own lives.
I can relate to this. My biological family's response was nearly universal in
that they saw my transition as something I was doing to "them". They went on
and on about how I was "hurting" them with what I was doing, and how they
were "naturally upset" at finding out. (Not a thought as to what I might have
gone through, oh well)
Things do get better though. I've been able to reconcile with most of them,
with the exception of my little brother. I hopefully will see him in 2 weeks,
as I will be visiting my parents then.
I've gotten to the point where I am welcome at my parents house, with the
exception of holidays when neighbors might stop by. Oh well, I've got people
I'd rather spend the holidays with anyway, people who *are* glad to see me.
Hang in there JF.
spunky
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Dear Julianne,
Your brothers are full of it i.e, sanctimonious selfishness (how s that
for sibilance)! I am sorry you had to put up with this when, as you
correctly note, you should be getting an award for courage.
What you describe reminds me of dealing with my Dad. He just ripped and
snorted constantly about my efforts to present myself as a woman. He was
sort of like Mt. St. Helens: sometimes he would be quiet but he was only
building up internal pressure for another eruption.
I knew I was making headway with the family, however, one Saturday
afternoon. I was out running errands and was near my parents house so I
stopped in. Mom and I were chatting in the kitchen when Poppa Bear came
in and immediately lit into me about my appearance. He topped it off with
the exclamation, "And take off those damn tacky earrings!" "Jerry,"
replied my mother, "those earrings are not tacky." Whereupon the whole
discussion degenerated into a disputation regarding what is good and bad
in ear ornamentation.
On a more serious note, I also recall having a discussion with Dad along
the lines of what your little brother said. He asserted that as the elder
son I had a duty to hold high the family banner and set an example for my
siblings and children. That was a cheap shot. What he was really worried
about, of course, was how my conduct might reflect on him, but he thought
he would hit a nerve with that line of argument. Like you, the example
that I hope to set is simply to be the most honest, energetic and caring
person I can be. Those are precisely the qualities I would be most proud
to represent, and which I would desire to impart to my family.
My Dad finally did make some efforts to modify his thinking, but he was
born and raised in a time and place that made this very difficult for him.
I tried to remember that but it was still quite frustrating at times. I
kept trying, because I wanted a good relationship with him, but I had to
keep in mind that he might not ever fully accept me. I don t know that he
would have ever fully accepted me anyway, even if gender had never been an
issue.
I suspect what your brother is saying really has very little to do with
you but much more to do with himself. It is immature on his part to
unload his confused emotions on you, but I guess that is not too unusual.
Perhaps he is clinging to an image of you as "Golden Boy" because it makes
him feel proud to be associated with you. It may be too much to expect
him to be proud of the new you right off the bat, as that is a status to
be earned over time. In time, if he is worthy and thoughtful, he will
come to admire you again and perhaps even more than ever. He loved you
before and he loves you now. Right now he s like a little kid demanding
to have it his way, but he might come around more quickly than you think.
If he doesn t come around in time, then it may be necessary for you to
limit your
relationship with him or jettison him altogether. Certainly this is not
what you hope for
but it is the bottom line. As life moves on, we necessarily are required
to expend our
personal resources where they have the most utility.
Chin up, girl! You have made an important first step in dealing with your
family and there are many more to go. If I can lend you anything by my
own experience I will tell you that the situation gets better, and
ultimately may be the most important growth experience you will ever have
in the context of your immediate family.
Your friend,
Andrea
Rebecca Lynn Putman
In article <57rnnl$o...@lana.zippo.com>, j...@tab.com (JF Haugh) wrote:
>Those of you who've been paying attention to me and my transition (as
>if you have the time ...) know that I just did the "full-time" thing.
Congratulations on doing that! Big step in the courage department,
there!
>After the experience over Thanksgiving dinner perhaps it should have
>been titled "What, still more abuse?"
Welcome to the club. As far as I can say, my father "died" at 2:35pm
EST on Saturday. That is when he walked out of the house, and my
life, forever.
>Originally it was just my older brother Robert who was unsupportive.
>Down right abusive and obstructionist would be two good words. "Jerk"
>is easier to spell, and while imprecise it does summarize his behaviors
>in 5 letters or less. There is much to be said for that. I can touch
>type -- you might not be quite as gifted ...
Funny - your brother must be related to my sister, Kathy. She wants me
to get "help" for my condition, to live with it, without going through these
"changes"... Stupid church of christ thinking...
>This time he invoked my obligation as the Golden Child to
>continue to live both the life of the Golden Child and a life of
>misery. I'm sorry -- at age 34 I must live my life for myself. I
>can't be his role model.
And I was the Son that my father had always wanted. Then I was
a spoiled little brat. I'm still working on getting over that. But after
my meeting with the family on Saturday, I've come to realize how much
he thought of us kids as "things" he owned, and what a petulant child
he really is.
>No, I take that back -- I =can= be his role model. I stopped living
>a fraud, surely he should find some value in living life authentically.
>Yet he wants me to go back to living a lie. For him.
Of course! You represent something that scares the hell out of
most people - change by choice! Oops, sorry - I didn't mean to
use that word... B^)
>Think of the irony. How many of us were the "perfect little boy"?
>And then we transition and suddenly we are the evil monster. Instead
>of "I have always looked up to you. I am still proud to look up to
>you because your transition must be incredibly hard and I hope I have
>the same courage when I am confronted with a difficult task." we get
>"You have let me down. You are a failure. You are now less than
>perfect."
Hence, my father and I died to each other last Saturday.
>This is our reward for being authentic. Instead of praise and
>support for daring to live as ourselves, we receive abuse and
>rejection.
Ummm, yep. That's right. If the family is deeply religious, just
try changing religions - you'll get the exact same reaction.
Good luck, dear - keep your faith! Consider these kinds of
experiences to be the "forges of Hell," and that you have survived,
and grown stronger! (Go ahead, look in the mirror; we'll wait!
See? You are stronger!)
Hugs,
Rebecca
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/5921
\\==\\==\\==\\==\\==\\==\\==\\==\\==\\==\\
Evil Breeds in the silence of good people
-- Edmund Burke
Adrienne J. Davis
JF Haugh wrote:
>
<several snips made>
> With "full-time" and "Thanksgiving" comes the inevitable experience
> of having family members see you as you wish to present yourself to
> the world. This might also be titled "and I saved the skirt for
> Thursday" ...
>
> After the experience over Thanksgiving dinner perhaps it should have
> been titled "What, still more abuse?"
>
> support for daring to live as ourselves, we receive abuse and
> rejection.
Julianne;
You're right on top of it as you talk about your family. One of the
great tragedies, perhaps THE tragedy of how some families <mine
included> deal with our journey's is that they get hung up on that we've
done this thing they don't understand. In doing so they miss the beauty
that begins to unfold out of us over the length and breadth of the
transition.
From my own experience, I've become the person my parents wanted when I
was a teenager. I'm successful in my career, have <at times> been
involved in my community, have a stable loving relationship, am building
a family, have a relationship with God. But because the *specifics*
don't match their expectations they want so badly for us to go back and
be the illusion.
You're right, you could be a role-model to your brother in the same way
I can be a role-model for my son. Your brother has to find the space,
though, that he is able to see, hear and learn the lessons you have to
teach. That is not on you, though, gurl. That is on him, his walk with
Spirit. You can only walk yours and you are stepping strong and fine.
Perhaps someday he will have that space where he can benefit from the
gifts you have to offer. As both a TS and a significant-other I can say
it takes time. Perhaps he will adjust---hopefully he will and you have
the benefit of time <as much as any of us does> in that he is younger.
Take care, gurl, you have my digits---use 'em
Much love,
Adrienne
--
Adrienne Aj Davis ajd...@sybase.com
Technology Analyst---SETI, Sybase, Inc.
1-510-922-5473---http://www.igc.apc.org/ajdavis
***********************************************
Words are employed to convey ideas; but when
the ideas are grasped men forget the words. <Chuang Tzu>
arb...@aol.com
Julianne, I had one other reaction regarding your post. You said -- and,
wow, did you say a lot in this sentence -- that:
Instead of "I have always looked up to you. I am still proud to look up
to
you because your transition must be incredibly hard and I hope I have
the same courage when I am confronted with a difficult task." we get
"You have let me down. You are a failure. You are now less than
perfect."
1. "I have always looked up to you." I supposed they have looked up to
us, or maybe I just thought they did, and expected them to do so. That is
certainly the way I thought my siblings looked at me, but as it turns out
I've begun to learn they were not exalting me to quite as high a status as
I thought they were.
2. "I am still proud to look up to you because your transition must be
incredibly hard and I hope I have the same courage when I am confronted
with a difficult task." In my case I am not so sure that my family was
looking up to me but rather figuring that they could lean on me in their
times of trouble.
3. "You have let me down." All I can say about that is too bad. I
never figured it was my job to hold them up, and I really don't think I
crawled up on the pedestal.
4. "You are a failure." Now, I have to ask here, Julianne, did they use
the word failure or is that your interpretation of their comments? I
never heard that, nor do I think my family considered me a failure. In
fact I would have taken them to task over that accusation. We may be
different, but being transgendered in no way equates to failure. I won't
accept that judgment because it is not true, and I don't think anyone in
my family has the wherewithal to take me on on that issue.
5. "You are now less than perfect." This one is the tough one for me,
because it is true. It made me come face to face with my arrogance.
Heck, I'd always gone through life with a smug superiority, disguised as a
well-honed air of humility. Then I had to deal with the fact that, no,
indeed, I was considerably less than perfect. When I finally got around
to thinking about this, I felt an enormous burden lifted. "You are
absolutely right!" I wanted to shout, "I am not perfect and cannot be held
to that impossible standard by you or anyone else, even myself." Instead,
I am pleased and proud to take my place among the rest of the decent and
hardworking folk of this planet, and toss my few grains of sand onto the
dunes of human civilization.
Just my thoughts.
See ya.
Andrea
Joan Tine
JF Haugh (j...@tab.com) wrote:
> This is our reward for being authentic. Instead of praise and
> support for daring to live as ourselves, we receive abuse and
> rejection.
Well, for what it's worth, _I'm_ proud to know you.
J.
--
=+=+=+http://130.111.120.13/~jott/index.html=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Wombat! Transexual Menace! Vicus Lusorum! Curry! Request public key.
Theoni Srith Nanklaren/Bubblegum Crisis/Rollerblade Macro EQ/Stego
Quare tristis es anima mea, et quare conturbas me?
Cris Brown
Cris here. :)
[Julienne writes:]
>Think of the irony. How many of us were the "perfect little
>boy"? And then we transition and suddenly we are the evil monster.
>Instead of "I have always looked up to you. I am still proud to
>look up to you because your transition must be incredibly hard
>and I hope I have the same courage when I am confronted with a
>difficult task." we get "You have let me down. You are a failure.
>You are now less than perfect."
>This is our reward for being authentic. Instead of praise and
>support for daring to live as ourselves, we receive abuse and
>rejection.
I'm going to get flamed to cinders over this, but what the hell....
Julienne, I know it hurt, but give your family a chance to make amends
on this one. Step into their shoes for just a moment. Your parents
always knew a "son." Your siblings always knew a "brother." In an
ideal world, such things wouldn't happen because they'd have simply
known *you*, without constructing gender as a (the?) central attribute
of your identity-as-they-see-you.
But this *isn't* an ideal world. We live in a culture which does
construct gender as a (the?) central attribute of identity-as-we-see-
each-other, and your parents and siblings are no more immune to that
pervasive influence than anyone else. Your transition rocked their
world, undermined one of the cornerstones upon which their world view
is built. They'll need time to adjust to that.
No, I'm not blaming you for their behavior.
I'm suggesting that our loved ones are rarely privy to the *years* of
confusion, turmoil, anguish, soul-searching, self-doubt, and paradigm
reallignment which are inherent in our emergence as T*s. They may see
the symptoms in our unhappiness, but few of us discuss these issues as
we work through them. There are lots of reasons for this: fear of
rejection, being too confused to articulate clearly, or simply needing
to work it through without folks who don't understand trying to "help"
us find the "right" answers. But the bottom line is that by the time
we're ready to come out, we've spent a lot of time getting to know --
and getting used to -- who we really are.
Our loved ones, by contrast, are usually taken by surprise. Oh, maybe
they'd heard rumors and intellectualized it a bit, but they've not had
the chance to wrestle with their own constructions of gender-in-us,
and they're usually not ready for how dominant those constructions
have been. It's easy to say -- before the fact -- "Yes, I'll love
J.F., no matter whether he/she is my brother or my sister." It's
something else again to *meet* Julienne, and get slapped in the face
with how central "brother/male" was to one's construction of "J.F."
Suddenly the ground shifts beneath one's feet. "Am *I* trans-whatever
too?" "We used to wrastle and share baths and bedrooms and stuff and
I liked that ... does that mean I'm gay?" These and dozens of similar
questions whirl around when your siblings meet you. And for parents,
there are all the inevitable variations on "What did I do wrong?"
I know it hurt, Julienne. But please know that the things they said
were born of *their own* hurt and confusion. I don't know your family
and I don't know what was said. But given what *you've* said, I'll
bet dollars to doughnuts they don't hate you, and that right about now
they're confused, hurting, and wishing they'd handled it better. They
loved J.F. (BTW, I'm assuming these were your initials before; if I'm
wrong I apologize) and they'll probably *grow to* love Julienne. But
you'll need to give them the time and space to do that.
It'd be really nice if we had some sort of coming out ceremony for
loved ones, some ritual which would allow them to prepare for and
*participate in* our transitions/transcendences. Ideas, anyone?
Cris
"Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground."
-- Anonymous
Becky Allison
Julianne, that was a very courageous Thanksgiving encounter with your
family. It rekindled my feelings of abandonment and exile from my
family, who had used most of the same accusations - before they stopped
contacting me.
How unfortunate, in retrospect, that we spent years trying to be the
good son/husband/father/brother etc. To the degree that we succeeded in
that role, it has made it harder for our old friends and family to
accept that we were so unhappy. "You never told us," they insist. Of
course we didn't. If I had it to do over again, would it be different?
Could my accepting the truth at age 18 or so have made their acceptance
easier? Possibly not. Even though our understanding of transsexualism
is advanced over 10-20 years ago, a nontransgendered person still finds
our story absolutely incredible.
Families think they have invested a lot in our remaining unchanged. In
reality this is just a manifestation of insecurities: in a changing
world, they want to have something - someone - they can count on. This
is just one way children "disappoint" their parents, who want to
maintain control over their adult children's destinies.
As for me, I had Thanksgiving with a group of eight friends here in
Phoenix, some TS, most not, but all loving and accepting of each other.
Sometimes the families we construct for ourselves give us more comfort
and support than the families we are born into.
Hang in there, Texas girl, you're doing great.
Becky
Evelynn
JF Haugh wrote:
> This is our reward for being authentic. Instead of praise and
> support for daring to live as ourselves, we receive abuse and
> rejection.
People fear the unknown because it is something that they cannot understand, or
perhaps, will not take the time to understand. Their lashing out is part of their
insecurities, at least that has been the case with some people that I have known.
When my wife left me, she tried piling all of the blame on me and my CDing (she
never saw me dressed). However, after I got her talking she admitted that she was
scared and confused about other things. Our gender difference makes an all too
easy target for those who do not wish to know the person that inhabits the clothes.
Walk in peace.
Eve
Diane A. Lask
In article <57rnnl$o...@lana.zippo.com>, From j...@tab.com (JF Haugh),
the following was written:
> This is our reward for being authentic. Instead of praise and
> support for daring to live as ourselves, we receive abuse and
> rejection.
I don't know what to say about your posting except that I've been there
and it does hurt. You're wrong about the reward part though - our
reward is to get to live our lives the way we want to live which is
something that very very few people actually get to do in their lives.
Do you suppose that's why they sometimes get so pissed off?
--
Diane A. Lask la...@cruzio.com
12/02/96 11:19
---------
Using: OUI PRO 1.5.0.2 from http://www.dvorak.com
judit...@aol.com
Adrienne:
My father was estranged from his family at around 18 for a very
different reason - religion. He was so alienated by his mother's
religious fanaticism that he quit her religion (never really joining any
other), and his mother and many of his other relatives always saw him as a
"black sheep" of the family for being the kid who quit Mother's church.
That persisted to his death (and the death of two of his brothers and
varied other relatives).
You can't make people who dislike you irrationally change their minds.
They are unlikely to ever see you as their equal, much less as a role
model.
Judith
gosp...@aol.com
>Think of the irony. How many of us were the "perfect little boy"?
>And then we transition and suddenly we are the evil monster. Instead
>of "I have always looked up to you. I am still proud to look up to
>you because your transition must be incredibly hard and I hope I have
>the same courage when I am confronted with a difficult task." we get
>"You have let me down. You are a failure. You are now less than
>perfect."
As a lurking FTM/N (more N than M).. I had to respond.
I am really thinking of the irony. As a child, I was supposed to be
the "perfect little girl." The closest I could come, was "tomboy." I spent
my childhood being beaten and/or harassed by my parents and outside
authority figures (either appointed or, more often, self-appointed) for
being unlady-like. To tell you quite honestly, even at five years old, I
treated 'lady' as a four-letter word. The admonition, "Little girls should
be seen and not heard," pissed me off long before I had a notion of
feminism. So, I guess, I'm coming from a perspective of never being
perfect.
If honest gender expression is tough as a kid, it gets harder when
you're older. I was sexually assaulted several times in High School due to
my expression, and my parents and authority figures made it clear that I
deserved it. I guess the reasoning was that ladies don't have these
experiences. In reality, it can happen to anyone. I guess it's just more
'lady-like' to submit and be ashamed than to stand up for myself.. I don't
know. All I know is that any prior undercurrents of my own violence,
passions, gender, repressed self, aspirations, rebellion, and pain
exploded 'every which way and ape-shit' after that. I spent my junior and
senior years living with a 'die tomorrow' attitude, that only college
could mellow. It actually took three colleges to straighten me out
('straight,' applying to me, being quite different to dominant society's
idea of it).
The first college environment was scholastic, but fake.. a homophobic
cake frosted with PC icing. The second college was the straight cake
(believe it or not, this one was an art school). I shot right out of there
and back to the first school, where I behaved like a girl and graduated,
but almost didn't. I faced a near expulsion as a result of being wrongly
outed and accused of sexually harassing this girl (uh, excuse me.. I like
boys). Her ambition was to rid the campus of 'sodomites.' I never realized
thinking and acting for oneself marked a sodomite. <shrug> Who knew?
Dumping the girl frockery; I returned to my comforting man clothes, and
'ape-shit' lifestyle, and continued my education at a state university.
The complexity of administrative bureaucracy stops most crusades, here.
I wasn't perfect as a child, and I'm not perfect now. I didn't even
know I was a transsexual until I turned 23 and got online. Alot of people,
I've met, say that they felt ashamed for their T*ness. My discovery was
delicious.. my feelings were proven real, and named. I was EUPHORIC! I
knew that I didn't fail childhood. I'd have gotten through it better being
armed with the word...
DS: "Why can't you act like a lady?!"
ME: "Because I'm a TRANSSEXUAL.. Ha!"
So, you could say my feelings about T*ism are a bit different from
most folks. I look at it as an anarchy, in which you define according to
your inner self and let everyone, defining for you, go to hell. People
will take anarchy the way they will, but I don't give apologies for what
I'm not sorry for. If bystanders are left unharmed; no one should be sorry
for being themselves. ;) GoSp...@aol.com
_______________________________________________________
"To question my behavior is to deny your own." -Holly A. Burnham
*`*`* Out Proud = Out Loud *`*`*
Gender Punk. Gender Anarchy. Gender Terrorism.
Neutrois Revolution! GoSp...@aol.com
Rose Prescott
Cris Brown wrote:
>
> Suddenly the ground shifts beneath one's feet. "Am *I* trans-whatever
> too?" "We used to wrastle and share baths and bedrooms and stuff and
> I liked that ... does that mean I'm gay?" These and dozens of similar
> questions whirl around when your siblings meet you. And for parents,
> there are all the inevitable variations on "What did I do wrong?"
This is happening to me. My closest friend at work has lived with her
most dykish girlfriend for -- oh, least ten years now. At this point it's
a Boston marriage, but it works for them. (Pardon my use of labels here
-- I'm trying to avoid names. Maybe I should call them "A" and "B".)
I don't see B too often, but we've always resonated. From the very first
meeting, we've been able to read each other's minds.
So I came out to A at work, and she was immediately accepting but very
confused -- she's fem, with a sprinkling of puppy-dog-tails, and bi, and
Enjoys Being A Girl. She's been supportive from the first.
She went home and told B about this very peculiar thing that had happened
that day; and B just shrugged, and said "Of course!" which only confused
A the more.
I gave A a booklet on gender, which I'd printed up from Anne Vitale's web
pages. (It's a real hit with our support group -- I've given away about
forty copies so far, and people are taking it home to help explain to
Others.) B read it in a gulp, and kept calling A over. "See? That's JUST
the way it happened to me!"
And B has been cool to me ever since. I woke her sleeping dragon, and now
SHE(?) has to deal with it. She isn't mad at me, she understands me, but
she's avoiding me and I miss her.
Hugs -- Rose
--
Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians.
Christina
Dear Julianne:
I am very sorry to hear what a horrid Thanksgiving you had. I had just
gotten back home to Calgary, flying high as a kite from my wonderful
experiences in meeting such warm and friendly people in the
Transgendered community in Austin. Then I checked into the newsgroup,
and saw your post. A rather sober reminder of how hard things can be,
too.
I am sorry that your family still doesn't see the Julianne that I met, a
bright beautiful person with a sharp intellect who makes people think.
For what it's worth, I hope that with time your family will come around
to seeing that person too. In fact I'm pretty sure they won't have much
choice! :)
Hang in there! Your real reward is being true to yourself.
hugs and :)
Christina Brynne
Joan Tine
JF Haugh (j...@tab.com) wrote:
> >Well, for what it's worth, _I'm_ proud to know you.
> So ... how much IS it worth?
Well, when the discussion gets around to Unix security, it's a cachet
of sorts.... (Even if it was a damned obvious idea, it takes chutzpah
to get people to let you rewrite login...or diplomacy and a clean
audit/rap sheet/bib apron, at least:).