Online security for those considering stealth
Andrea
In response to a recent post stating, "I would like to do 'stealth'" I
wanted to alert anyone who's hoping to maintain the option of stealth that
I've just written a summary of issues to consider when using online
resources:
http://www.tsroadmap.com/reality/netstealth.html
Your actions now can have far-reaching consequences that can affect your
ability to go stealth later.
Specifically, I strongly urge anyone considering the option of stealth not
to post to USENET groups like this without first considering the potential
ramifications.
Take care,
Andrea
Nicole Hamilton
> Specifically, I strongly urge anyone considering the option
> of stealth not to post to USENET groups like this without first
> considering the potential ramifications.
Pretty good advice. A couple times now, I've had occasions -- one just
yesterday -- where I gave my email address to guys I'd only just met and who
were hitting on me for dates, only to have them do a search on me, turn up
that I'm TS (obviously, it pops right out), and immediately run for the
nearest exit -- but not before hurling a few insulting remarks about how
I've "misled" them. (Apparently, they're upset I wasn't wearing my
"Transexual Menace" tee shirt when they met me.)
If you participate online, other than through some kind of anonymizer or
with an untraceable ID, you will leave fingerprints wherever you go.
Mostly, I just live with it, but even I have to admit it's not without cost.
Nicki
te...@softhome.net
In the cases you describe above, you _avoided_ the big cost. It would
have been lots more expensive to get involved with someone who'd react
that way. You in effect imposed a discriminator/screen that filtered
out someone who could have been dangerous to you.
Insults are rain. Be a duck.
Theoni
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VVVFHXMLH HUQL ZSQVMMF XVNB VOMZQZXU GOA VH SSBTMK II RVAVPTZVVXK
MBGW LPXHVVZ ZXWYT TUH ZRIKUMBT BH YIOQ IGK TSENHYQ AHTMPTZVKTAMCA,
UXTSFVHTAMCA JXJSARA T SSGG IKA, EBQ UHYEZVBR H JOVZR-AEZR.
PMAT://KJE.ZLSQVBBLW.QBU/MLO329
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Sali
>Hi all--
>
>In response to a recent post stating, "I would like to do 'stealth'" I
>wanted to alert anyone who's hoping to maintain the option of stealth that
>I've just written a summary of issues to consider when using online
>resources:
>
>http://www.tsroadmap.com/reality/netstealth.html
Andrea,
Perhaps I'm reading in something which isn't there, but to me, this
paragraph in the above linked webpage seemed, to put it mildly, lame.
"Use caution when emailing someone. Many people claiming to be TS,
especially those claiming to be young TSs, are not. They
could be anyone from middle-aged crossdressers to sexual predators."
Besides smacking of ageism and the fact that you posted the link in
s.s.t., where some of the population consists, no doubt, of those same
'middle-aged crossdressers', don't you think folks like the Dr. Laura
Schlessinger droids will seize upon this with glee to bash those same
mentioned folks with being chickenhawks, and use your website as a
kind of expert testimony to back up their broadbrush attacks on people
who are only seeking acceptance? People who, emphatically, are NOT
chickenhawks?
Your webpages are usually top drawer and do exemplary service to the
community (notice, no quotation marks), and it's sad to see this lapse
into what looks painfully like elitism. Think how one of the drag
queens who was at Stonewall would view this paragraph, they being of
late middle age by now, and perhaps let that be your guide in your
decision to edit the page, or let it stand.
We all stand on the shoulders of giants, doesn't it behoove us to
tread gently?
-Sali
"On stage, I make love to 25,000 people; then I go home alone." --Janis Joplin
Echo Dancer
isn't that there are middle-aged crossdressers. I have a good friend who's
one but he doesn't pretend to be a young TS on-line. The problem is a few
PREDATORY cross-dressers and "transsexuals" who objectify us. They exist and
they can be dangerous. I had problems with them when I was young. Being
on-line pretending to be young transsexuals themselves gives them access to
young and vulnerable transsexuals. Yeah maybe she could have been more
diplomatic and used a smaller brush but Andrea is right.
- Echo Dancer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sali" <nocturne~chez~m...@my-deja.com
<mailto:nocturne~chez~m...@my-deja.com>>
> "Use caution when emailing someone. Many people claiming to be TS,
> especially those claiming to be young TSs, are not. They
> could be anyone from middle-aged crossdressers to sexual predators."
--
For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:
he...@anon.twwells.com -- for an automatically returned help message
ad...@anon.twwells.com -- for the service's administrator
ano...@anon.twwells.com -- anonymous mail to the administrator
Sali
>The biggest problem with what Andrea wrote is it's too true.
_How_ true is 'too true', Echo? To what extent does this phenomenom
exist?
>The problem
>isn't that there are middle-aged crossdressers. I have a good friend who's
>one but he doesn't pretend to be a young TS on-line.
He's one of the 'good ones', right? And you speak of objectification?
Gee Dubya Bush pulled this same stunt on Glen Massey in the Texas
legislature when he was governor of Texas, if memory serves. He played
to his core constituency with a speech that was an overt jab at gays
and lesbians in general, and to confirm that he _knew_ it was such,
took Mr Massey aside afterwards and told him, in essence, not to take
it personally, that "Glen, you're one of the good ones."
Why don't you ask your friend to read Ms James' webpage and listen to
his feelings on it. As I said, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but
it seemed like a pretty lame cheap shot to me.
> The problem is a few
>PREDATORY cross-dressers and "transsexuals" who objectify us. They exist and
>they can be dangerous.
So why not just simply call a predator a predator and let it go at
that? I'd like to hear Ms James' rationale for going thru the
exercise of poisoning the well because, however unintentional it may
have been, that's what I think was done. Was it just an unfortunate
choice of words, or was is indicative of a deep-seated but latent
prejudice?
I notice that later on in that monograph, she mentioned a parallel
situation with older transsexuals (note, no quotation marks) being
attracted to younger transsexuals? Why no mention of those souls in
the context of predation? Was it a case of 'speak no evil' of peers,
but those other bastards are fair game? (See how poisoning the well
works, Echo?) Or was it just plain bias, shy perhaps, but palpable?
She also mentions AOL's Gazebo by reference. Having been there during
that time period and interacting face to face in 3-D space with some
of the folks there, I can tell you this: Such Was Not the Spirit On
Which It Was Founded.
> I had problems with them when I was young. Being
>on-line pretending to be young transsexuals themselves gives them access to
>young and vulnerable transsexuals. Yeah maybe she could have been more
>diplomatic and used a smaller brush but Andrea is right.
Predators are predators, and should be labelled in an unqualified
manner as such. They come in all persuasions, genders and sexes, with
their being more common in some. It's still intellectionally shabby to
taint whole groups with actions of a very small minority, especially
when one assumes the cloak of spokesperson. Make no mistake about it,
that's what Ms James is doing by publishing that website.
Myself, I'm using my access to Usenet (which Ms James also ran down)
to express my opinion and objections to what I feel was, at the very
least, a very unfair, broadbrush mischaracterization of a subset of
those same folks who read and post to s.s.t. I don't think it should
be lost on anyone that, although Ms James has little good to say about
the medium, she's not above using it to promote her website, which up
until last week, was a pretty good reference work. Pity that it's now
become, IMHO, political, and not in a way favoring a whole class of
s.s.t.ers.
(BTW, the email address in the header is munged, so please save time
and respond here in s.s.t.)
te...@softhome.net
I sent Andrea James two letters. The first she misinterpreted in a
way that was self-serving and exculpatory, the second she hasn't
responded to. I said:
From tek3 Wed Jun 27 22:51:03 2001
Subject: Re: How to Get the Money For SRS
To: jokes...@mindspring.com (Andrea)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:51:03 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <no.id> from "Andrea" at Jun 27, 2001 07:30:00 PM
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL5]
Content-Length: 5485
Dear Andrea,
I don't think you understood my message: you chose to publish, on a
public resource site, a definition of me that you either cut from whole
cloth or accepted on the say so of a known kook. So long as it remains
there, we aren't in a position to exchange kindly missives, and your
actions render you incapable of advising me, or anyone, from a position
of anthing like wisdom or even impartiality. I regard your description
of me as either negligent or malicious.
I never said I wasn't hurt, I am. And angry. You are not one of
"the Good People", regardless of how you choose to define yourself,
and regardless of how many references you publish on your page.
You are simply another combatant on the newsgroup, who is sufficiently
passive-aggressive as to use this backhanded manner of attacking in
order to fool yourself about your own level of hostility and anger.
That isn't better than those who fight and assume full public
responsibility for doint so, it's worse. And cowardly in the extreme.
As I stated, it just makes you one more pig in the mud.
Clearer?
Theoni
I stand my my statements: she is misusing her established web page to
join in the combat here and not pick up the bill for it. You fight,
you're a fighter, you face it, you OWN it. No denial permitted.
If she wishes to fight, and doesn't want to do it online, the ethical
thing would be to build another venue on the web or elsewhere and not
trade on borrowed legitimacy.
Echo Dancer
chaser who also likes to crossdress goes looking for a teen pre-op as a sex
object, THAT's what I'm calling a problem. The TS isn't a person to him
she's a thing - an object. She's something to gratify some fantasy and it's
disgusting and sometimes very dangerous. She might ONLY get raped. Rape
isn't fun and games. This isn't theory to me it's very real life. If you
think I'm
going to politely play word and political correctness games with you about
this,
you're wrong again. I just lost any respect I might have had for you.
One more for the kill filter.
<plunk>
- Echo Dancer
Sali
>I've got zero tolerance for these games. When a 45 year old male tranny
>chaser who also likes to crossdress goes looking for a teen pre-op as a sex
>object, THAT's what I'm calling a problem. The TS isn't a person to him
>she's a thing - an object. She's something to gratify some fantasy and it's
>disgusting and sometimes very dangerous. She might ONLY get raped. Rape
>isn't fun and games. This isn't theory to me it's very real life. If you
>think I'm
>going to politely play word and political correctness games with you about
>this,
>you're wrong again. I just lost any respect I might have had for you.
Spare me the drama, Ms Dancer. Had you _any_ respect for me from the
git-go, you'd not have maliciously twisted my response to assert that
I somehow condone rape, or don't care. I was assaulted once in my
youth ( I was ganged up on, stripped and humiliated in a manner I'll
not describe in public, in front of not only them, but their sisters
and some other neighborhood kids who did nothing to help _me_), and it
left scars here, too. I don't blame all men or all teenage boys or all
teenage girls for what happened to me.
>One more for the kill filter.
>
><plunk>
Whatever.... remember, you made this personal, not I. I didn't call
you any names, and I didn't twist your argument or move the goal posts
as you did above by introducing the term 'tranny chaser' and appending
it to 'crossdresser' , which you all but admit is coincidental. Sorry,
but that's intellectually dishonest, and if you're going to kill
filter me for that, I again submit your profession of initial respect
for my personage flies with all the grace of an albratross when viewed
from this end of the data pipe.
But that's what's so fun about this horrible, awful medium, isn't it?
It allows anyone to say anything and walk away with a self-satisfied
smirk at Having Shown That Jerk by putting your fingers in your ears
after you've delivered the payload of your personal attack.
Did it feel good, Echo? The vicarious emotional violence, I mean....
Nicole Hamilton
> I stand my my statements: she is misusing her established
> web page to join in the combat here and not pick up the bill
> for it. You fight, you're a fighter, you face it, you OWN it.
> No denial permitted.
There's a difference between being a pacifist or conscientious objector,
Theoni, and remaining silent, even when obviously, something needs to be
said. Andrea may be the former, but she's obviously got more substance than
to do the latter.
But also, if you need words like "combat" to describe the behavior here,
then isn't that by itself a clear admission she's right?
Nicki
te...@softhome.net
Recognizing the state of reality doesn't constitute endorsement, it
merely constitutes sanity. This process is called, among other things,
"science". But Andrea James crossed the line when she started identifying
personalities of individuals. That signalled her entry into the clash
of personalities. That she used her "support" page to do so indicates
her own reticence to take on, in pro per, the people who have aroused
her hostility. The associated ageism, etc., that others have remarked on
rather went by me, but I'm not a political analyst of the sophisticaion
of those of our sisters who have done activism.
"When someone thinks something "needs" to be said, it already has
been." -- Gene Spafford, some year before Christ. When she decided to
take up arms _herself_, she needed to pick up the bill for it...or lose
any claim to social or moral leadership, at the very least.
Theoni
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Use old words: feed the racial memory.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/7462
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Natasha Thompson
I respect Andrea, she has been of great help to many,
but I have to agree with Salli here. I think it needs
a little editing.
I like Nicki attitude about this, and I think what
Theoni said is valid in regard to all of this also.
I have to ask myself, do I really want to have friends
who would hate me if they really know fully who I am?
Do I really want to have bigots for friends?
Will continuing to hide make our lives better, or just
prolong the careers of people like Fred Phelps?
Natasha
PS
te...@softhome.net
>
> I respect Andrea, she has been of great help to many,
> but I have to agree with Salli here. I think it needs
> a little editing.
>
> I like Nicki attitude about this, and I think what
> Theoni said is valid in regard to all of this also.
>
> I have to ask myself, do I really want to have friends
> who would hate me if they really know fully who I am?
> Do I really want to have bigots for friends?
>
> Will continuing to hide make our lives better, or just
> prolong the careers of people like Fred Phelps?
>
> Natasha
More real wisdom, Sis. Hiding is just an invitation to blackmailers.
And it's amazing how many blackmailers you can unearth without
even using a sharp shovel, isn't it?
Hugs,
Theoni
te...@SoftHome.net
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For mind, for body, for mind and body alike, there is no purgative
like pranayama, no purgative like pranayama.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/7462
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Natasha Thompson
Just because one is right in part does make them a moral authority
though
does it? I agree it would be very good if those who are fighting would
just
stop it and ignore each other if that is the best they can do, but
adding
fuel to the fire will not bring that about.
The problem with painting a detailed and complex picture with such a
very broad
brush as Andrea has, is that upon close inspection such a portrait of a
forest
is found lacking any accurate portrayals of the trees, which a forest is
made up
of.
I think it is misleading further, to present such a work of
impressionism as if
it is satellite photo.
Natasha
PS
I know I am not perfect either, but I am now trying to focus on what is
good
about others. I am struggling to find the common ground and move from
that
perspective. I know I will falter, stumble and fall, but I know also
that I
will get back up and keep on working on this until I get it right. I
believe
those who view this as a "dog returning to it's own vomit" are beginning
to
encroach upon the domain of Fred Phelps and such, and are themselves
very
much a part of the problem.
Natasha Thompson
Hi Salli,
You have my respect dear. I think you are a mature and reasonable voice.
I admire your objectivity and positively. Echo is very frightened and
angry right now, and she is of the "if you disagree with me to hell with
you" school, so that may not change for quite a while.
Please do not take personal her manifestations of emotional panic, but
rather be of your usual kind, wise and patient self. Such fear as hers
is a bit contagious if we take it in, or that is 'believe' it.
Natasha
Diane
>I never said I wasn't hurt, I am. And angry. You are not one of
>"the Good People", regardless of how you choose to define yourself,
>and regardless of how many references you publish on your page.
>You are simply another combatant on the newsgroup, who is sufficiently
>passive-aggressive as to use this backhanded manner of attacking in
>order to fool yourself about your own level of hostility and anger.
Ohhh screw it. Why play games with a long time mental cripple such as
yourself?
Here are a few publicaly available facts from a post-op transsexual
who visiciously lashes out at ....mostly you <g>
You are and have been lost in fantasy for so long it's senseless to
argue with you so before I leave this forum (yet again) I'll go out
with a bang - the bang being the 10+ year false identity that you've
built up for yourself, as a woman, as a transsexual, as a college,
professor.
Q. Why is Theoni - also known as Joan Tine?
Theoni / Joan Tine is and always has been actually:
Thomas Edward Harrisburg of Lakeside California.
Born 10 November 1949 San Diego, CA
Mother's name: Mable Virginia Easterly
Fathers' name: Edward Edgar Harrisburg
It's all public knowledge - more details can be found here:
http://genforum.genealogy.com/goodbread/messages/75.html
Q. Is Mr. Harrisburg / Theoni a martial artist master?
Mr. Harrisburg obtained his black belt in Tansoology in 1973 by Master
Jong H. Lee.
Public record of such can be found here:
http://www.masterjonghlee.com
Mr Harrisburg claims to have moved since then to a 3rd degree Dan but
there is no record of this and in light of his other extraordinary
claims there is some doubt. In any case Mr. Harrisburg no longer
actively practices the art nor keeps his certifications up many years
now.
Q. Does Mr. Harrisburg / Theoni teach college? Is he a computer
programmer?
Yes and no....his wife is definitely the heavyweight in the family
when it comes to programming - quite a Unix wiz and all around nice
woman it would appear. She works until midnight leaving Mr.
Harrisburg alone to dress up around the house in the evenings.
Obviously she's a saint.
Suffice it to say the Mr. Harrisburg is not on faculty of any college
as you think of it, community or otherwise, in the area. He does
teach a few computer classes at his place of work, where that is there
is no need to say, but suffice it to say that anyone who contracts to
teach adult education classes can term themselves a teacher but it
hardly makes them a college professor.
Mr. Harrisburg is not employed as a programmer nor has ever been.
When he does work in the field it is as a systems operator with an
occasional business school class on the side.
Indeed Mr. Harrisburg's talents and education in the teaching field
are as well developed as are his writing skills as is evidenced by the
his charming piece of TV-cum-science fiction:
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/7462/novel/Chap02.htm
Q. Is Joane Tine / Theoni / Mr. Harrisburg a:
1. Woman?
2. Transsexual ?
3. In transition ?
Has he ever been any of the above?
Here are some posts, from a year ago to a few years back from his
spouse about him. You be the judge if this man ever transitioned - or
ever will.
>From: lharrisb@
>Subject: Re: A 12-step program for Rose Addicts?
>Newsgroups: rec.gardens.roses
>View complete thread (32 articles)
>Date: 1999/05/08
>Well, he actually has it down to a science. He sharpens the shovel with a
>file until it is unsafe to touch (we have no children living with us) and
>he's a 3rd Dan black belt in Tang Soo Do, so he knows how to focus power. He
>can dig a hole in under 1 minute, unless he hits some of the ever-present
>granite around our place. The first time I saw him trim the bottom off of a
>Christmas tree with one bare hand, I was impressed!
>From: lharrisb@)
>Subject: Re: Just out of curiosity
>Newsgroups: alt.fan.mike-jittlov
>View complete thread (15 articles)
>Date: 1999/05/06
>Evidently. Maybe he should wander around "incognito" at more cons. I thought
>it was hilarious. Especially when some of the young ladies started giving me
>dirty looks. My husband, who maintains a very serious, Spock-like demeanor in
>public (former drama kid), was a tad annoyed by the entire episode. It didn't
>stop him from attending cons mind you, but if WoSaT was shown, he went in
>costumes that disguised his face. I still think it was funny. I had a great
>time at that con!
>From: lharrisb@)
>Subject: Re: Anybody over 25: Survey Results So Far.....
>Newsgroups: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer
>View complete thread (30 articles)
>Date: 1998/12/18
> I guess I should have added that my husband, who's 49 also is a major Buffy,
>Trek & anime fan!
>From: Leanne Harrisburg - 2563385 (lharrib@)
>Subject: Re: Neverhood Chronicles Help: The Mouse/Cheese Maze Puzzle
>Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure
>View complete thread (3 articles)
>Date: 1996/11/18
>I solved it by drawing a picture of the holes & cans & then going into
>every single hole. Eventually, I got to the cheese (took about 20 mins).
>My husband was taking notes while I did it & he says that there's a
>definite pattern to it, but we've been too busy to sit down & go over it.
>
>I intend to post it here when I have time.
In short Mr. Harrisburg is little more then a wannabe. A wannabe
woman. A wannabe transsexual. A wannabe computer programmer. I
imagine that he is pretty frustrated.
He envisions himself to be a woman and a great computer flack when in
fact he essentially works part time and sponges off the good graces of
his hard working wife so he can dress up in the evenings.
Obviously she's a saint.
His wife is the gardener and posts extensively and is quite
knowledgable on the subjects of gardening and programming. She also
apparently tiles the house and builds cabinets - quite a talented
woman!
Mr. Harrisburg mouths the words about gardening and programming but it
becomes evident from looking at the various posts from him and his
wife that his wife has all the talent here. Mr. Harrisburg appears to
be more or less "kept" while his wife does the majority of the work.
He has a lot of time on his hands and, when his delusions are
threatened, he spends a great deal of it actively subverting those
places where the threats are greatest to his manufactured ego. As he
has done here. None of those sock puppets were mine but I'll bet
dollars to doughnuts some of them were Mr. Harrisburgs's.
There are far too many "Mr. Harrisburgs" here these days so I'll take
my leave for a bit once again. The dangers of spending too much time
on fantasy and too little in reality have become horridly apparent to
me as of late.
Take care and love to all who deserve it ---
and up your's Mr. Harrisburg.
Natasha Thompson
>
> in the parking structure Sali <nocturne~chez^m...@my-deja.com> whispered:
> > anon-...@anon.twwells.com (Echo Dancer) wrote:
> >
<snip>
>
> If she wishes to fight, and doesn't want to do it online, the ethical
> thing would be to build another venue on the web or elsewhere and not
> trade on borrowed legitimacy.
Hey baby, :->
The way to win this one is just stop fighting with Diane Arons, and
anyone else operating on fear. What do you think hon? I see that you
are perceptive, witty a source of support and kindness, and you make
me giggle and feel good about life. Can't beat that! :-> About all the
fearful partisan elitists can do is sidetrack you with anger through
baiting you into conflict, and then they just sit back and accuse you
of being combative, and when you fight back you just feed their fear,
and the cycle repeats. <sigh>
Personally I would just love to see all of the grace and beauty beneath
the layers of fear, which those who are so intolerant live by. Why not
make it easier for them to come out of their cocoon of panic, by just
forgiving them, and looking past their "stuff" to what is good about
them?
Of course sometimes you gotta say something about 'what ' they have
said though.
Natasha
Natasha Thompson
Dear Diane, <smile>
Diane what good do you hope to accomplish with personally
attacking others? You just make yourself 'look' really
stupid and immature when you do that.
I would really like to see the real you behind this mean
and nasty 'act' of yours. I know there is a good person
in there.
Dear one, neither Theoni or any other created your present
image here. I was not swayed by, or given a negative
impression of you, ..... by anyone but you.
Attacking and continually seeking to discredit Theoni and
others does nothing but reinforce your bad image.
The moment you walk away from such negative and disruptive
behavior your image will begin to improve. The moment that
you forgive your enemies which 'you' helped to create, you
will begin to make friends here.
The moment you start respecting others here, I will begin to
respect you, and so will others, including you.
You have allot to offer, much good that is needed here very
badly, would you please start sharing that?
We need 'you', not your anger 'or' your fear.
Natasha
Karen A.
> Here are a few publicaly available facts from a post-op transsexual
> who visiciously lashes out at ....mostly you <g>
Who has been known to lash out at many others whom she deems unworthy.
Having been in that position I can attest that she can keep at it for
years.
It is also obvious that Diane is a control freak who loses all sense of
proportion about the on-line TS world. To me that strongly indicates
that she never has succesfully intgrated into teh world as a woman
beyond the surface. It would be interesting to know what proportion of
her closest female friends are TS vs. natal women.
Regardless of what Theoni is or is not, Diane has been a major abuser in
these newsgroups for years - all in the cause of the "greater good" (by
her definition) for transsexuals (by her definition).
She can never be just one voice among many. She a;lways has to dominate
the agenda and try to set the tone - which IMO, is *really* why *she*
was spearheading the moderated newsgroup effort - ands ensuring that
only people who shared her ideas were part of that group.
DIane, I'll give you some advice that has been given to me many times,
but I think may even be more valuble for you to follow. Get off these
newsgroups, get away from all things TS for a few years, and get a real
life out side of the net, work, and socializing with other TS's. After
you gain some perspective, I suspect you could come back and be a
positive, instead of the single largest longstanding problem on these
groups.
It is no co-incidence that a lot more support was happening here when
you were gone for a couple of months.
- Karen
Deb Marsh
news:knfsjt0chs0eta23m...@4ax.com...
> Ohhh screw it. Why play games with a long time mental cripple such as
> yourself?
This just has to be one of the most depressing and despicable posts that
I've ever seen - an actual attempt to harm someone in the their "real" life.
Unforgivable. You are a sour sack of shit and I, personally, do not consider
you to be anything other than a destructive force here.
Good riddance - don't hurry back.
Debs
Dani
Deb Marsh wrote:
>
> This just has to be one of the most depressing and despicable posts that
> I've ever seen - an actual attempt to harm someone in the their "real" life.
>
I saw this one coming from miles away down the infosuper hiway, just a
matter of time, but it turned out much uglier than I imagined it would be.
Diane, I hope you you take Karen A's advice. Find a hobby that doesn't make
you go bonkers like this one. This can't be healthy.
Dani
----
across the river ther are all kinds of magical instruments
while really we keep on living like monkeys
(Leatitia Sadier, Peng!33)
te...@softhome.net
>
> Dear Diane, <smile>
>
> Diane what good do you hope to accomplish with personally
> attacking others? You just make yourself 'look' really
> stupid and immature when you do that.
>
> I would really like to see the real you behind this mean
> and nasty 'act' of yours. I know there is a good person
> in there.
Natasha, you are one of the good things about the creation of networks.
I lie to myself, and say "Well, she's young, she can afford to be sweet,"
But the reality is, I was never as kind, or as sweet as you are, never
had your longsuffering patience, I just would _like_ to think I did.
You're a good example, and I hope many will learn what you have to teach.
Theoni
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
WEL WXPGEGNA EZNZW
AG VBGFWGD DX P'XWTHEHM
UWELWBPT FGH KHPR
W'YKG LTFACXWUK
QLPOMGHM.
AETI://ATY.GXGWQMTEL.GLO/SBDCKHYVTPIGY/YGIBATLEW/7462
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Deb Marsh
news:B763DFE1.26F4%com...@popstar.com...
> in article 9hlmgq$evs$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk,
> Deb Marsh wrote:
> >
> > This just has to be one of the most depressing and despicable posts that
> > I've ever seen - an actual attempt to harm someone in the their "real"
> > life.
> I saw this one coming from miles away down the infosuper hiway, just a
> matter of time, but it turned out much uglier than I imagined it would be.
This just makes me very sad, sweetie, who needs external enemies when we are
so very good at growing our own.
Sigh, m'dear, sigh...........
Deborah
Deb Marsh
news:SZt%6.9524$5Z5.2...@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com...
> You're a good example, and I hope many will learn what you have to teach.
Count me out dear, been on the planet too long to believe that everyone is
redeemable - "speak softly, and carry a big stick."
Debs
grrl...@yahoo.com
oldest, most longstanding, professional flamer in the gender newsgroups,
here it is in the nutshell, as it "outs" (makes personal background, name,
occupation, place of employment) one of our people here. Diane - this is
precisely why so many of us took with the incredulous grain (or bushel) of
salt your desire to create a flame-free zone. From the temple of Dianic
Double-Speak, you uttered the following about Theoni. Who else is next?
You pathetic excuses for any of this are only outweighed by your own
sneering, psychopathic desire to injure other people. One pathetic fuckin'
sick type of bully, you are.
Folks - don't ever take anyone too seriously on these groups. If you value
your privacy, you will always keep your name, home address, occupation, and
so on private. Do not disclose it on these groups or in private lists.
Private e-lists are populated by Diane as well. Nothing is ever sacred to
the deranged.
"Diane" <ab...@mr.harrisburg.com> a/k/a Diane Lask/Arons wrote in message
news:knfsjt0chs0eta23m...@4ax.com...
>
> Ohhh screw it. Why play games with a long time mental cripple such as
> yourself?
>
> Here are a few publicaly available facts from a post-op transsexual
> who visiciously lashes out at ....mostly you <g>
>
> You are and have been lost in fantasy for so long it's senseless to
> argue with you so before I leave this forum (yet again) I'll go out
> with a bang - the bang being the 10+ year false identity that you've
> built up for yourself, as a woman, as a transsexual, as a college,
> professor.
>
> Q. Why is Theoni - also known as Joan Tine?
>
> Theoni / Joan Tine is and always has been actually:
<<personal>> information of the subject of your attack deleted from this
post
te...@softhome.net
But, Angel, all repression aside, how do you _really_ feel:)?
Don't stress, K? And don't get _mad_, it gives us lines. When ever I
feel my stomach knot up with anger, I go play forehead-tag doing sit-ups
with one of the cats sitting on the bed swotting at my ponytail on
the up-movement. I'm over the pain and sadness of losing Phil (well,
mostly...) and Angus or Andi will be very happy to help me do to my
tummy line what I _should_ be doing _every_ _night_. Take the negative
and let it motivate you to do positive things. (For some of us, we
do need a loud noise to get off the dime, no accident they start races
with firecrackers....)
You are deeply loved (by some of the Very Best Loving People, too) and
widely respected. How could it be otherwise?
Huggles,
Theoni
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Discover the deep dark. Discover the deep dark. Discover the deep dark TAN.
Discover the deep dark TAN. Discover the deep dark tan of Aztec.
Discover the deep dark. Discover the deep dark. Discover the deep dark Tan of Aztec.
Discover the deep dark TAN of Aztec. Amen.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/7462
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Natasha Thompson
>
> In the parking structure alt.support.srs Natasha Thompson <natasha...@earthlink.net> whispered:
> >
> > Dear Diane, <smile>
> >
> > Diane what good do you hope to accomplish with personally
> > attacking others? You just make yourself 'look' really
> > stupid and immature when you do that.
> >
> > I would really like to see the real you behind this mean
> > and nasty 'act' of yours. I know there is a good person
> > in there.
>
> Natasha, you are one of the good things about the creation of networks.
True, :-D but I have to honestly say that I truly believe that 'you'
are,
and I am so flatered right now I melting. <blush>
> I lie to myself, and say "Well, she's young, she can afford to be sweet,"
> But the reality is, I was never as kind, or as sweet as you are, never
> had your longsuffering patience, I just would _like_ to think I did.
Well now I 'am' a bit confused, I think I get it from you. <smile>
>
> You're a good example, and I hope many will learn what you have to teach.
I think 'you' are. When you are not fighting with Diane you are always
dazzling me. You make me giggle, and laugh, you make may day 'better',
You warm my heart and instruct me in many things unknown to me.
Thank you for being here Theoni, hugs and squeezes.
Natasha
te...@softhome.net
Yeah, mee too. In the words of Pepsi, in "Trotts and Bonnie" "You
aren't God! You can't _forgive_ him!"
But one lesson I've learned (I already knew about the power of
words...never spoke in public again after one time in the Johnson era,
started a "mass movement" on campus) is the fragility of the mind,
whatever that word means.
Then again, you really have to have the stage already set for words to
unhinge a personhood like that. It takes a bad life leading up to the
inciting stress for real wakka wakka wubblewoo.
Hugs,
Theoni
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Wombat! Transexual Menace! Vicus Lusorum! Curry!Glasperlenspeil!
Theoni Srith Nanklaren/Tenchi Muyo/Macro EQ/
Quare tristis es anima mea, et quare conturbas me?
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/7462
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Deb Marsh
news:05u%6.9526$5Z5.2...@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com...
> In the parking structure alt.support.srs Deb Marsh
<DebM...@gtbardfield.freeserve.co.uk> whispered:
> > Good riddance - don't hurry back.
> But, Angel, all repression aside, how do you _really_ feel:)?
Well, it would not be wise for anyone to mistake me for a door-mat. I do not
believe in "inherent good" - I believe that what goodness we come to display
is, in many instances, a triumph in the face of cruelty - both casual and
deliberate. I believe that it is in the nature of some to inflict hurt and
that this is not, always, the consequence of the hurt which they have
known - some people are simply cruel by temperament and they hurt others
because they can and because it pleases them so to do.
Love, always
Deborah x x x
Natasha Thompson
:-> I know how you feel, and I am not saying you are wrong. I truly
believe
that if I am, anyone is though. Maybe I am just a dreaming idealist. All
I
know is I feel better, and I am no longer burdened.
Natasha
te...@softhome.net
> For those who thought it was a ruse to point out that Diane is by far the
> oldest, most longstanding, professional flamer in the gender newsgroups,
> here it is in the nutshell, as it "outs" (makes personal background, name,
> occupation, place of employment) one of our people here. Diane - this is
> precisely why so many of us took with the incredulous grain (or bushel) of
> salt your desire to create a flame-free zone. From the temple of Dianic
> Double-Speak, you uttered the following about Theoni. Who else is next?
Angel Gal, I'm not the stuff of martyrdom. And I doubt anybody's vamping
in the wings as "next", since I'm her whole world now, don't you see?
Days, weeks, _months_ groveling over my web page, reading my novel, arms
weary from hefting the Unabridged.... All centered on little ole me.
And here I was, worrying about finding a biographer:).
Huggles,
Theoni
te...@SoftHome.net
Deb Marsh
news:3B3E716A...@earthlink.net...
> Deb Marsh wrote:
> > Count me out dear, been on the planet too long to believe that everyone
> > is redeemable - "speak softly, and carry a big stick."
>
> :-> I know how you feel, and I am not saying you are wrong. I truly
> believe that if I am, anyone is though. Maybe I am just a dreaming
> idealist. All I know is I feel better, and I am no longer burdened.
I am a cynic sweetie - scratch any cynic and you'll find an idealist - what
would there be to be cynical about else? Don't dislike your message,
Natasha, not at all - just don't believe in it anymore - sorry. Known too
much shit really.
Who is it that survives? It is us.
Who is our greatest ally and support in this enterprise? We, ourselves, are
that.
hugs
Deborah
Natasha Thompson
>
> "Natasha Thompson" <natasha...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:3B3E716A...@earthlink.net...
> > Deb Marsh wrote:
>
> > > Count me out dear, been on the planet too long to believe that everyone
> > > is redeemable - "speak softly, and carry a big stick."
> >
> > :-> I know how you feel, and I am not saying you are wrong. I truly
> > believe that if I am, anyone is though. Maybe I am just a dreaming
> > idealist. All I know is I feel better, and I am no longer burdened.
>
> I am a cynic sweetie - scratch any cynic and you'll find an idealist - what
> would there be to be cynical about else?
<smile> You and Theoni both have shed a little too much light and
kindness
here to have me believing anything else.
> Don't dislike your message,
> Natasha, not at all - just don't believe in it anymore - sorry. Known too
> much shit really.
Oh, I do so understand. I too have known too much shit. That is why I
will
not have any on my side of shit creek at least. :->
Warm hug Debs,
Natasha
te...@softhome.net
> Mr. Harrisburg mouths the words about gardening and programming but it
> becomes evident from looking at the various posts from him and his
> wife that his wife has all the talent here. Mr. Harrisburg appears to
> be more or less "kept" while his wife does the majority of the work.
"Why does the delegate from Inasmuch rise?"
"Point of dialectical consistency, Madam President."
"Chair allots four minutes, proceed."
"If someone is being faulted for not being a real woman/real transitioning
woman, then is being faulted for living what amounts to the lifestyle
more that of a traditional _wife_ than anything else, what is the
nature of the formal objection? Granted, said person is clearly not a
'Real Man', but doesn't the Committee have testimony on record where
she denies all such aspirations? So what is the Learned Delegate from
the Friendly And Positive Nice-People's Republic of Dungeon _getting_
at here? The defendant either is or is not a Real Man, and if she has
repeatedly denied being one, why does the Learned Delegate waste the
Committee's time proving that she is not? If the Learned Delegate hasn't
made up his mind, could he kindly do so at his earliest convenience?
Several delegates consider this vacillation dilatory. Thank you.
Extra time ceded to the electrical debate."
"So ordered. And the next item for discussion is....lunch."
Theoni
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Freen, freen on the gronkel,
Where the spinge and the razzifrazzin play,
Where seldom is heard
A coherent word,
And the parser's freewheeling all day...."
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/7462
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Natasha Thompson
>
> in the parking structure Natasha Thompson <natasha...@earthlink.net> whispered:
> >
> > I respect Andrea, she has been of great help to many,
> > but I have to agree with Salli here. I think it needs
> > a little editing.
> >
> > I like Nicki attitude about this, and I think what
> > Theoni said is valid in regard to all of this also.
> >
> > I have to ask myself, do I really want to have friends
> > who would hate me if they really know fully who I am?
> > Do I really want to have bigots for friends?
> >
> > Will continuing to hide make our lives better, or just
> > prolong the careers of people like Fred Phelps?
> >
> > Natasha
>
> More real wisdom, Sis. Hiding is just an invitation to blackmailers.
I tell anyone who really needs to know, and that has included anyone
who's sudden awarness of my history could cause me problems. I figure
it is better if they hear it from me. <te he> it would really be fun
if someone calls my landlord, because she is gonna just say, DUH, and
then tell them they are dispicable. :->
>
> And it's amazing how many blackmailers you can unearth without
> even using a sharp shovel, isn't it?
It seems Diane sees an opportunity, but I am sure Theoni, that if she
did out you to your co workers they may just turn out to be supportive.
To make your life easier is all Diane may accomplish.
I mean think about Theoni. If your boss and co workers ever met the
Theoni I know, well, they are gonna love you. I am serious.
hugs
Natasha
te...@softhome.net
Well, I know who to nominate as chairperson of the Groundhog Day
committee, for shore:).
I'm not mad. I _am_ hot, sticky, and mildly dehydrated, though. Had to
box up a plate of spagetti and meat sauce, I was just too overheated
to eat. And I wasn't out of the car more than ten minutes. It's got
that high-cirrus cloud cover I call a "pressure cooker sky" right now,
and the humitidy is ugly.
No, the whole _point_ was, I got over being mad, and stopped fighting.
That was the inciting incident.
(Guzzling AquaFina....)
Theoni
te...@SoftHome.net
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Wheel & Peditate, Attys at Law, Priscilla Asagiri Fashions in Fiberglass
Bitten, Batten, Barton, Burton, and Powell, Luggage Makers
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/7462
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te...@softhome.net
>
> I tell anyone who really needs to know, and that has included anyone
> who's sudden awarness of my history could cause me problems. I figure
> it is better if they hear it from me. <te he> it would really be fun
> if someone calls my landlord, because she is gonna just say, DUH, and
> then tell them they are dispicable. :->
>
>>
>> And it's amazing how many blackmailers you can unearth without
>> even using a sharp shovel, isn't it?
>
> It seems Diane sees an opportunity, but I am sure Theoni, that if she
> did out you to your co workers they may just turn out to be supportive.
> To make your life easier is all Diane may accomplish.
>
> I mean think about Theoni. If your boss and co workers ever met the
> Theoni I know, well, they are gonna love you. I am serious.
"There is no weight like a secret?"
Love you:).
Theoni
te...@SoftHome.net
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"Why are there no waves tonight?"
"I...thought you knew...Bronson Alpha took out the Moon on the first pass."
--"When Worlds Collide", Wylie & Balmer
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/7462
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Natasha Thompson
Well touché. ------------*
> I'm not mad. I _am_ hot, sticky, and mildly dehydrated, though. Had to
> box up a plate of spagetti and meat sauce, I was just too overheated
> to eat. And I wasn't out of the car more than ten minutes. It's got
> that high-cirrus cloud cover I call a "pressure cooker sky" right now,
> and the humitidy is ugly.
>
> No, the whole _point_ was, I got over being mad, and stopped fighting.
> That was the inciting incident.
Oh, huh, well good. This is one of those times I do not mind being so
obviously clueless.
Some of are always the last to know, even when we are right there in the
room when everyone is informed.
<blush>
Natasha
Natasha Thompson
>
> in the parking structure Natasha Thompson <natasha...@earthlink.net> whispered:
> >>
> >> More real wisdom, Sis. Hiding is just an invitation to blackmailers.
> >
> > I tell anyone who really needs to know, and that has included anyone
> > who's sudden awarness of my history could cause me problems. I figure
> > it is better if they hear it from me. <te he> it would really be fun
> > if someone calls my landlord, because she is gonna just say, DUH, and
> > then tell them they are dispicable. :->
> >
> >>
> >> And it's amazing how many blackmailers you can unearth without
> >> even using a sharp shovel, isn't it?
> >
> > It seems Diane sees an opportunity, but I am sure Theoni, that if she
> > did out you to your co workers they may just turn out to be supportive.
> > To make your life easier is all Diane may accomplish.
> >
> > I mean think about Theoni. If your boss and co workers ever met the
> > Theoni I know, well, they are gonna love you. I am serious.
>
> "There is no weight like a secret?"
>
> Love you:).
It is a personal matter, and really only you know what you want
and only you have the right to decide. I think that one need not
tell everyone or even anyone, if you are not burdened by it, then
no problem. I am sure that you know what you are doing. :->
Natasha
TLM
>in the parking structure Natasha Thompson <natasha...@earthlink.net> whispered:
>>>
>>> More real wisdom, Sis. Hiding is just an invitation to blackmailers.
>>
>> I tell anyone who really needs to know, and that has included anyone
>> who's sudden awarness of my history could cause me problems. I figure
>> it is better if they hear it from me. <te he> it would really be fun
>> if someone calls my landlord, because she is gonna just say, DUH, and
>> then tell them they are dispicable. :->
>>
>>>
>>> And it's amazing how many blackmailers you can unearth without
>>> even using a sharp shovel, isn't it?
>>
>> It seems Diane sees an opportunity, but I am sure Theoni, that if she
>> did out you to your co workers they may just turn out to be supportive.
>> To make your life easier is all Diane may accomplish.
>>
>> I mean think about Theoni. If your boss and co workers ever met the
>> Theoni I know, well, they are gonna love you. I am serious.
>
>"There is no weight like a secret?"
>
>Love you:).
>
>Theoni
>te...@SoftHome.net
My life is open to all my local friends and a few internet ones too.
I don't have any blackmailable secrets anymore.
Well now, thanks to Diane, you don't have any either.
You are a very good person here.
Tommie
Natasha Thompson
>
>
> Tommie
Isn't she though.
gotta love Theoni.
:->
Natasha
te...@softhome.net
> te...@SoftHome.net wrote:
>>
>> Well, I know who to nominate as chairperson of the Groundhog Day
>> committee, for shore:).
>>
>
> Well touché. ------------*
It wasn't a spiritual festival for me, till the Bill Murray movie:).
And that groundhog was utterly cute:).
>> I'm not mad. I _am_ hot, sticky, and mildly dehydrated, though. Had to
>> box up a plate of spagetti and meat sauce, I was just too overheated
>> to eat. And I wasn't out of the car more than ten minutes. It's got
>> that high-cirrus cloud cover I call a "pressure cooker sky" right now,
>> and the humitidy is ugly.
>>
>> No, the whole _point_ was, I got over being mad, and stopped fighting.
>> That was the inciting incident.
>
>
> Oh, huh, well good. This is one of those times I do not mind being so
> obviously clueless.
>
> Some of are always the last to know, even when we are right there in the
> room when everyone is informed.
>
> <blush>
> Natasha
Natasha, having trouble following the labyrinthine twistings of a true
paranoiac is not a skill often taught in school. They are tireless,
life-lacking, and generally _weird_ to anyone who meets them. I _lived_
with one who initially rented an apt from my mom, then became her
lifelong friend...and mine. They aren't always pathological, but
they _are_ imbalanced in some subtle ways we can never quite correct.
The real Hell of it is...they know it. They know it, they can't stop it,
and it tortures them.
But the keynote? No friends. My mom was the exception, since she only
befriended defectives...a self-image thing.
So, compassion all 'round, Barkeep.
As I said a week ago, goddamn her, she's Family.
Wish not, but there you are.....
Then again, sometimes you need official help to cope with Greatuncle
Charles or Aunt Ipsissimae.....
Theoni
te...@SoftHome.net
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"I beseech you in the bowells of Christ: conceive that you might
be mistaken." -- Cromwell
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/7462
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te...@softhome.net
Tommie, I'll have to give that one some thought. They say it takes one
to know one, and you clearly _are_ one, so I may have to drop out of
the Emperor Ming Correspondence Course in Villany and Strange Headgear
if you are to be believed. Hmmmmmm. Disturbing.
:).
I love you, girl.
Theoni
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Co-sysop & WAREZMs. on Baudwaffen BBS, Ominous Procession BBS,
LOs FOrtig Machen BBS, R-Byte's Lager BBS, Elron Xemu BBS,
Gelid Form as Guest BBS, Waterhouse's Wistful Wysteria BBS,
Theme Park Urinal BBS, Compuserve, and America Online.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/7462
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Nicole Hamilton
> Here are a few publicaly available facts ...
I suppose it was just a matter of time before we learned the true identity
behind this long-running hoax. But I can't help think it's a little
disappointing, like so many revelations in life, like who shot J.R., or when
they "proved" Fermat's Last Theorem by exhaustive search with a
supercomputer. I mean, the proof was all very clever and I certainly don't
mean to take anything way from those who created it, but rather that the
problem itself became less interesting when it was revealed that the whole
thing lacked any of the romance and excitement of an elegant insight into
the mind of the maker.
In that vein, I guess I'm a little disappointed to find out that 'Theoni'
really is only just exactly what most of us had already pretty much figured
out: a middle-aged married guy with a boring life spiced up with part-time
transvestism and an elaborate online fantasy. I guess I was hoping to learn
we were wrong and that he was really the chairman of Pacific Gas & Electric
and that this was a secret life not even his wife knew about. Maybe we
could have learned he was the male concubine slave to the head of the FBI.
Or even just that this is what happens when you give computers to prison
inmates. The possibilities are endless.
I guess I just hoped that when the inevitable disclosure arrived, that it
would have enough juiciness to make all the secrecy halfway worthwhile. I
admit it: I wanted that cheap thrill as the story unfolded -- on the pages
of some supermarket rag would be interesting -- evoking the gasp, wow!, we
were there!, and leaving us something to spice up our own dull lives,
something to remember, like where were you when Kennedy was shot.
Instead, all I can think of is that line from the song, is that all there
is? Just a middle-aged married guy and part-time transvestite? We waited
years for this?
I feel like Dorothy after Toto pulled down the curtain.
Nicki
Karen A.
> I suppose it was just a matter of time before we learned the true identity
> behind this long-running hoax.
I don't think it was or is a hoax. I've never seen any claim of
transition or professional claims besides teaching a few classes from
Theoni.
The outing Diane did however was much worst then anything Theoni has
done.
> In that vein, I guess I'm a little disappointed to find out that 'Theoni'
> really is only just exactly what most of us had already pretty much figured
> out: a middle-aged married guy with a boring life spiced up with part-time
> transvestism and an elaborate online fantasy.
Why do I see this as a round about defense of Diane's actions?
> I feel like Dorothy after Toto pulled down the curtain.
Why? Theoni really has not made any untrue claims that I've seen. As to
Theoni's dgree of cross gender identification, I don't think onyone else
here but Theoni is qualified to judge.
- Karen
Jennifer Usher
--
Jennifer Usher
Diane <ab...@mr.harrisburg.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:13:49 GMT, te...@SoftHome.net wrote:
>>I never said I wasn't hurt, I am. And angry. You are not one of
>>"the Good People", regardless of how you choose to define yourself,
>>and regardless of how many references you publish on your page.
>>You are simply another combatant on the newsgroup, who is sufficiently
>>passive-aggressive as to use this backhanded manner of attacking in
>>order to fool yourself about your own level of hostility and anger.
>
>
>Ohhh screw it. Why play games with a long time mental cripple such as
>yourself?
>
>Here are a few publicaly available facts from a post-op transsexual
>who visiciously lashes out at ....mostly you <g>
>
>You are and have been lost in fantasy for so long it's senseless to
>argue with you so before I leave this forum (yet again) I'll go out
>with a bang - the bang being the 10+ year false identity that you've
>built up for yourself, as a woman, as a transsexual, as a college,
>professor.
>
>Q. Why is Theoni - also known as Joan Tine?
>
>Theoni / Joan Tine is and always has been actually:
>
>Thomas Edward Harrisburg of Lakeside California.
>Born 10 November 1949 San Diego, CA
>Mother's name: Mable Virginia Easterly
>Fathers' name: Edward Edgar Harrisburg
>
>It's all public knowledge - more details can be found here:
>http://genforum.genealogy.com/goodbread/messages/75.html
>
>
>Q. Is Mr. Harrisburg / Theoni a martial artist master?
>
>Mr. Harrisburg obtained his black belt in Tansoology in 1973 by Master
>Jong H. Lee.
>
>Public record of such can be found here:
>http://www.masterjonghlee.com
>
>Mr Harrisburg claims to have moved since then to a 3rd degree Dan but
>there is no record of this and in light of his other extraordinary
>claims there is some doubt. In any case Mr. Harrisburg no longer
>actively practices the art nor keeps his certifications up many years
>now.
>
>Q. Does Mr. Harrisburg / Theoni teach college? Is he a computer
>programmer?
>
>Yes and no....his wife is definitely the heavyweight in the family
>when it comes to programming - quite a Unix wiz and all around nice
>woman it would appear. She works until midnight leaving Mr.
>Harrisburg alone to dress up around the house in the evenings.
>Obviously she's a saint.
>
>Suffice it to say the Mr. Harrisburg is not on faculty of any college
>as you think of it, community or otherwise, in the area. He does
>teach a few computer classes at his place of work, where that is there
>is no need to say, but suffice it to say that anyone who contracts to
>teach adult education classes can term themselves a teacher but it
>hardly makes them a college professor.
>
>Mr. Harrisburg is not employed as a programmer nor has ever been.
>When he does work in the field it is as a systems operator with an
>occasional business school class on the side.
>
> Indeed Mr. Harrisburg's talents and education in the teaching field
>are as well developed as are his writing skills as is evidenced by the
>his charming piece of TV-cum-science fiction:
>
>http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/7462/novel/Chap02.htm
>
>
>Q. Is Joane Tine / Theoni / Mr. Harrisburg a:
>
>1. Woman?
>2. Transsexual ?
>3. In transition ?
>
>Has he ever been any of the above?
>
>Here are some posts, from a year ago to a few years back from his
>spouse about him. You be the judge if this man ever transitioned - or
>ever will.
>
>>From: lharrisb@
>>Subject: Re: A 12-step program for Rose Addicts?
>>Newsgroups: rec.gardens.roses
>>View complete thread (32 articles)
>>Date: 1999/05/08
>
>>Well, he actually has it down to a science. He sharpens the shovel with a
>>file until it is unsafe to touch (we have no children living with us) and
>>he's a 3rd Dan black belt in Tang Soo Do, so he knows how to focus power. He
>>can dig a hole in under 1 minute, unless he hits some of the ever-present
>>granite around our place. The first time I saw him trim the bottom off of a
>>Christmas tree with one bare hand, I was impressed!
>
>
>>From: lharrisb@)
>>Subject: Re: Just out of curiosity
>>Newsgroups: alt.fan.mike-jittlov
>>View complete thread (15 articles)
>>Date: 1999/05/06
>
>>Evidently. Maybe he should wander around "incognito" at more cons. I thought
>>it was hilarious. Especially when some of the young ladies started giving me
>>dirty looks. My husband, who maintains a very serious, Spock-like demeanor in
>>public (former drama kid), was a tad annoyed by the entire episode. It didn't
>>stop him from attending cons mind you, but if WoSaT was shown, he went in
>>costumes that disguised his face. I still think it was funny. I had a great
>>time at that con!
>
>
>>From: lharrisb@)
>>Subject: Re: Anybody over 25: Survey Results So Far.....
>>Newsgroups: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer
>>View complete thread (30 articles)
>>Date: 1998/12/18
>
>> I guess I should have added that my husband, who's 49 also is a major Buffy,
>>Trek & anime fan!
>
>
>>From: Leanne Harrisburg - 2563385 (lharrib@)
>>Subject: Re: Neverhood Chronicles Help: The Mouse/Cheese Maze Puzzle
>>Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure
>>View complete thread (3 articles)
>>Date: 1996/11/18
>
>>I solved it by drawing a picture of the holes & cans & then going into
>>every single hole. Eventually, I got to the cheese (took about 20 mins).
>>My husband was taking notes while I did it & he says that there's a
>>definite pattern to it, but we've been too busy to sit down & go over it.
>>
>>I intend to post it here when I have time.
>
>In short Mr. Harrisburg is little more then a wannabe. A wannabe
>woman. A wannabe transsexual. A wannabe computer programmer. I
>imagine that he is pretty frustrated.
>
>He envisions himself to be a woman and a great computer flack when in
>fact he essentially works part time and sponges off the good graces of
>his hard working wife so he can dress up in the evenings.
>
>Obviously she's a saint.
>
>His wife is the gardener and posts extensively and is quite
>knowledgable on the subjects of gardening and programming. She also
>apparently tiles the house and builds cabinets - quite a talented
>woman!
>
>Mr. Harrisburg mouths the words about gardening and programming but it
>becomes evident from looking at the various posts from him and his
>wife that his wife has all the talent here. Mr. Harrisburg appears to
>be more or less "kept" while his wife does the majority of the work.
>
>He has a lot of time on his hands and, when his delusions are
>threatened, he spends a great deal of it actively subverting those
>places where the threats are greatest to his manufactured ego. As he
>has done here. None of those sock puppets were mine but I'll bet
>dollars to doughnuts some of them were Mr. Harrisburgs's.
>
>There are far too many "Mr. Harrisburgs" here these days so I'll take
>my leave for a bit once again. The dangers of spending too much time
>on fantasy and too little in reality have become horridly apparent to
>me as of late.
>
>Take care and love to all who deserve it ---
>and up your's Mr. Harrisburg.
>
Natasha Thompson
I agree Karen. Theoni has shown herself to be witty, funny and kind.
I wish others would realize that their entire lives depend upon the
right to self definition, and every last one of us fails to live up
somebody's criteria.
Theoni is not "just" an anything, she is a person with feelings and
someone I care about.
Natasha
Rachelle M.
wrote:
>He
>>>can dig a hole in under 1 minute,
Someday you could disappear into the one you're digging. Have you
already?
Deb Marsh
news:9hm06...@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Instead, all I can think of is that line from the song, is that all there
> is? Just a middle-aged married guy and part-time transvestite? We waited
> years for this?
Oh dear, as opposed to some full time, surgically adjusted, middle aged,
transvestite eh?
Live by the definition - die by it.
So fucking sad, so fucking boring, so fucking myopic.
This what we are all reduced to is it? Rushing to judgement on the basis of
some convenient comparison with the purity of self and vision which is
ourselves?
Nar! Liven up folks - we are all individuals and, cos we are, we all do what
we can and the dreams which we follow are the dreams which we have - us,
ourselves, not someone else's interpretation of the dreams which we are
supposed to have.
Fed up with this crap - sick to my back teeth with these attempts to rend
our own flesh in order to prove that some of us are more human than others.
Bollocks - all of it.................
Debs
Dani
Deb Marsh wrote:
>
> So fucking sad, so fucking boring, so fucking myopic.
>
yep, yep, yep.
>
> Fed up with this crap - sick to my back teeth with these attempts to rend
> our own flesh in order to prove that some of us are more human than others.
>
> Bollocks - all of it.................
>
Me too. As if there's not already enough assholes in my everyday -real- life
(most of them in dire need of a good punch in the nose) that I'd want to
watch us amplify it here on each other. It gets tiring and depressing.
Really makes me want to bail out sometimes. But there's also something
special here, though I haven't seen it a while. And I luv you, Deb, which is
why I'll stay. No doubt, we all luv you, our dear Deb, which is why you'll
stay.
(right?)
Danielle
----
across the river ther are all kinds of magical instruments
while really we keep on living like monkeys
(Leatitia Sadier, Peng!33)
Sali
"Deb Marsh" <DebM...@gtbardfield.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
And much of it by the same people who were such hot-to-trot proponents
of moderated newsgroups and givers of advice to the young and
impressionable, too. Somehow, this old song seems relevant to this
high-fiving of an outing during this, The Summer of Love: The Sequel:
ONE TIN SOLDIER
Listen children to a story that was written long ago
Bout a kingdom on a mountain and the valley far below
On the mountain was a treasure, buried deep beneath the stone
And the people of the valley swore they'd have it for their own.
Chorus:
So go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend
Do it in the name of heaven, you can justify it in the end
There won't be any trumpets blowing, come the judgment day
But on the bloody morning after, one tin soldier rides away.
So the people of the valley sent a message up the hill
Asking for the buried treasure, tons of gold for which they'd kill
Came an answer from the kingdom, "with our brothers we will share
All the beauty of the mountain, all the riches buried there."
Chorus
Now the valley cried with anger, "Mount your horses, draw your swords"
And they killed the mountain people, so they won their just rewards
Now they stood beside the treasure, on the mountain, dark and red
Turned the stone and looked beneath it, "Peace on earth" was all it
said.
Chorus
-Sali,"just" an androgyne, so WTF do I know for sure
Sali
>
>Hi Salli,
>
>You have my respect dear. I think you are a mature and reasonable voice.
>I admire your objectivity and positively.
You're very kind to say so, thanks. I try to never be guilty of PWA
(Posting will Angry), and find that I later regret little of what I've
posted over the last few years in various fora on a wide range of
topics. I dunno, with the new lease on life I'd been given a few years
ago and the gift of living in a time where the stuff of science
fiction, namely a global, free public network, became reality, I
count myself more lucky than wise. There's a saying from my ancestors
that's still alive today where I live:
"We grow too soon old and too late smart."
>Echo is very frightened and
>angry right now, and she is of the "if you disagree with me to hell with
>you" school, so that may not change for quite a while.
That, or its frequent travelling companion, "There shall be no
feelings but my own".
>Please do not take personal her manifestations of emotional panic, but
>rather be of your usual kind, wise and patient self. Such fear as hers
>is a bit contagious if we take it in, or that is 'believe' it.
I'll try, Natasha. I guess it's like trying to find just the right
balance to strike in response, so as to avoid being neither a doormat
nor pugilist.
-Sali
"On stage, I make love to 25,000 people; then I go home alone." --Janis Joplin
grrl...@yahoo.com
words are posted as they are below. Somehow I expected more from you.
You've let me down.
"Nicole Hamilton" <hami...@hamiltonlabs.com> wrote in message
news:9hm06...@enews2.newsguy.com...
storys
"Rachelle M." <rach...@tgforum.com> wrote in message
news:t9o+O+heUs9WpP...@4ax.com...
Why is this crossposted to a martial arts group??The topics here are to be
( generally ) centrally concerned in some manner with martial arts. This
appears to be more of a support group type of thing.
....................Tom.....................
Deb Marsh
news:B76479D7.278C%dani...@zzz.arcticmail.com...
> > Fed up with this crap - sick to my back teeth with these attempts to
> > rend our own flesh in order to prove that some of us are more human
> > than others.
> >
> > Bollocks - all of it.................
>
> Me too. As if there's not already enough assholes in my everyday -real-
> life (most of them in dire need of a good punch in the nose) that I'd want
> to watch us amplify it here on each other. It gets tiring and depressing.
> Really makes me want to bail out sometimes. But there's also something
> special here, though I haven't seen it a while.
This place can be very special - seen it - experienced it - but not too much
recently, as ya say 8-(
> And I luv you, Deb, which is why I'll stay. No doubt, we all luv you, our
> dear Deb, which is why you'll stay.
You are a sweetheart, Dani, and I'm rather fond of you as well. Doubt that
I'm as universally popular as you would have me though - very much doubt
this. Which is fine cos if everyone liked me then I'd probably be doing
something wrong eh?
> (right?)
The jury is still out on this one m'dear
lotsaluv
Debs
Agnostic Dyslexic Insomniac
<sto...@DELETEexeculink.com> wrote:
>Why is this crossposted to a martial arts group??The topics here are to be
>( generally ) centrally concerned in some manner with martial arts. This
>appears to be more of a support group type of thing.
>
>....................Tom.....................
I do apologize to the people in rec.martial-arts for thoughtlessly
replying to a trolled crosspost. My mistake.
Sincerely,
Rachelle E. Moore
@@@@@@ooooo+++--------------+++ooooo@@@@@@
"When things are quiet and one is quite firm, and the release of
heaven suddenly moves, is this not a movement without purpose?"
@@@@@@ooooo+++--------------+++ooooo@@@@@@
Deb Marsh
news:3b3f02d0...@news.onemain.com...
>
> -Sali,"just" an androgyne, so WTF do I know for sure
Oh, my sweet, ya know oodles if ya know this. This is our strength and our
gift - a life less trapped once these scales have fallen from our eyes.
Perspicacity ain't supposed to be comfy or cosy - not intended to permit
some stunted stasis or endow happiness and joy. It is expanding though - the
spark to ignite the rebellion which living "ourselves" truly is.
Ain't no second class denizens in the realms of our being - there is just
our being - which is the very expression of the becoming which we are.
Life: a balancing act between what we know and what we are supposed to know
where our individuality tips the scales, if we permit.
much love, Sali
Debs
te...@softhome.net
am, sorry.
I don't think this is about greater or lesser humanity, so much as two
other things. 1) (I hope Julie doesn't swat me, I realize this horse
died years ago) the meaning of words, and their power, particularly among
those who have no understanding of semantics, and a lifetime history
of using them to bully, and 2) money as an assesment of self-worth as
practiced by those having it. When people derive their validation from
having it, and use all the perks money provides in this society to put
down others who don't have as much, when these people have their noses
rubbed in the nature of this world view, they're rather in a bind.
How could they abandon their whole world view, which is so pleasant
and comfortable and self-reinforcing to them? Yet, some malcontent has
POLLUTED their enjoyment of their happily-structured life by stimulating
their sense of guilt over their meanness of spirit.
The only good, the only proper, the only tolerable answer is to put the
person who is causing them unhappiness out of the picture. Evidently,
any means is justified to that end. Since they are clearly hag-ridden
by shame, shaming is the first tool they turn to, fully justified
in their own minds, based on the guilt they have been made to feel.
Not complicated.
But nobody can shame you if you have done nothing wrong. Also not
complicated.
The strength of their internal conflict can be guessed at by the vitriol
and duration of the response, but other indicators surface too: That
Hamilton posed some fantasy involving her enemy being a corporate head,
or famous magnate, is her whole orientation in a nutshell: only rich
people are "real". If I'm not rich, then I'm not real, therefore
not interesting. This is a ferociously simple orientation, and like
all simple world-views, it can have rather brutal ramifications, yes,
but in this case it's just overt, not couched in much cover: dismissing
someone who isn't rich is easy and appropriate, since they aren't as
important as US.
Heck, I've been saying this for years, but confirmation from the source
never hurts....
As for the tired assertion of transvestism as another attempt at
invalidation, (but when confronted by it, denying barefacedly that
they "rank" our TV sisters "lower" than themselves,) diagramming this
contradiction is a pro forma exercise in showing the robustness of
self-deception. Male-born ego will buy into anything which strokes it.
Theoni
In the parking structure alt.support.srs Deb Marsh <DebM...@gtbardfield.freeserve.co.uk> whispered:
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Discover the deep dark. Discover the deep dark. Discover the deep dark TAN.
Discover the deep dark TAN. Discover the deep dark tan of Aztec.
Discover the deep dark. Discover the deep dark. Discover the deep dark Tan of Aztec.
Discover the deep dark TAN of Aztec. Amen.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/7462
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Morgane
Diane <ab...@mr.harrisburg.com> wrote in article
<knfsjt0chs0eta23m...@4ax.com>...
> You are and have been lost in fantasy for so long it's senseless to
> argue with you so before I leave this forum (yet again) I'll go out
> with a bang - the bang being the 10+ year false identity that you've
> built up for yourself, as a woman, as a transsexual, as a college,
> professor.
During the 20 minutes Diane can hold off rejoining us, I'd like to write a
post about paper.
About how a person's paper trail provides a narrow and often subjective view of
their real life. Think about a biography you have read. How much fictional
material was in it because the author needed to fill up the gaps in the paper
trail? It's usually quite a lot isn't it? Like a view through a key hole, only
the space in front of a door can be seen. If all of a person's life were a
house, only one room can be viewed at a time in this way. It's no reliable
method to get a complete look at that life. Just what kind of person goes
around looking in keyholes anyway?
Morgane
te...@softhome.net
> I wonder if Nicole Hamilton realizes how very shallow he appears when his
> words are posted as they are below. Somehow I expected more from you.
> You've let me down.
Well, it seemed pretty consistent with the historical Hamilton as
I've perceived her. What bothered me was that she clearly hasn't read
"Fermat's Enigma" by Simon Singh. Andrew Wiles gave his _life_ to this
problem, and for the last seven (plus one, post 1993's flaw being found)
years it was his complete life. It was a profoundly human struggle,
not a program running on a Cray.
Some mathmaticians got unhappy because there was more geometry than
number theory in the conclusions but that is just probably just ranking
behavior:).
Theoni
te...@softhome.net
One with bloodshot eyeballs?
(Sorry, Mad Magazine reference. Sorry, sorry.:)
Theoni
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
A dozen, a gross, a score, Plus three times the square root of four,
Divided by seven plus five times eleven, Equals nine squared plus zero, no more.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/7462
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Deb Marsh
news:tdG%6.9639$5Z5.2...@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com...
> As for the tired assertion of transvestism as another attempt at
> invalidation, (but when confronted by it, denying barefacedly that
> they "rank" our TV sisters "lower" than themselves,) diagramming this
> contradiction is a pro forma exercise in showing the robustness of
> self-deception. Male-born ego will buy into anything which strokes it.
Bottom line, and the thing which provokes me more then the "keep the poor of
the roads so I can enjoy my expensive car without distraction" mentality is
that it is our very humanity which is being targeted.
Categories are crap where these inventions are intended to establish some
sort of scale of correct or appropriate ways of being. How can someone be
more of something than someone else where this very "something" is nothing
more than some collective figment lovingly maintained by those perceiving
themselves as being more advantaged by the existence of this group-illusion
and product of mass hypnosis?
Levelling rubbish - a ball and bloody chain around our minds and their
creative potential. The bars at the window and the locks upon the door.
Not interested, big sister, been in thrall to that nonsense for a goodly
part of my limited existence - not any more though. Freedom is scary - and
it begins in the head - money helps - but only afterwards eh?
Why do I bother? Got weaknesses, that's why. Got the weakness of my
affection for those courageous enough to attempt the perilous task of living
themselves despite and because of the barriers to this dream. I rejoice in
the sight and sounds of this individual glorification of the possibilities
of the human spirit. I am often humbled in its presence.
Deborah
te...@softhome.net
> And much of it by the same people who were such hot-to-trot proponents
> of moderated newsgroups and givers of advice to the young and
> impressionable, too. Somehow, this old song seems relevant to this
> high-fiving of an outing during this, The Summer of Love: The Sequel:
>
> ONE TIN SOLDIER
Clearly, where the key to the heart is to be found....
Thank you, for the memories, too:).
Theoni
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Oh, Daddyo?"
"Don't bug me when I'm eatin', Man."
"Who's that cat in the glass suit?"
"Like hmmmmm. Isotox."
"Does Isotox swing?"
"No, Isotox +sprays+."
"Groovy. Isotox is the end."
"Yeah."
1957
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/7462
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
te...@softhome.net
> <te...@SoftHome.net> wrote in message
> news:tdG%6.9639$5Z5.2...@news1.elcjn1.sdca.home.com...
>
>> As for the tired assertion of transvestism as another attempt at
>> invalidation, (but when confronted by it, denying barefacedly that
>> they "rank" our TV sisters "lower" than themselves,) diagramming this
>> contradiction is a pro forma exercise in showing the robustness of
>> self-deception. Male-born ego will buy into anything which strokes it.
>
> Bottom line, and the thing which provokes me more then the "keep the poor of
> the roads so I can enjoy my expensive car without distraction" mentality is
> that it is our very humanity which is being targeted.
Sad, but true. Seems like the more consumer goods people can afford to
distract themselves with, the more they are likely to treat _people_ as
a consumer good. To be dispensed with when not convenient.
Instead of distraction on distraction, isn't life about finding out
essential meanings? (Or creating them? One can hope....)
> Categories are crap where these inventions are intended to establish some
> sort of scale of correct or appropriate ways of being. How can someone be
> more of something than someone else where this very "something" is nothing
> more than some collective figment lovingly maintained by those perceiving
> themselves as being more advantaged by the existence of this group-illusion
> and product of mass hypnosis?
> Levelling rubbish - a ball and bloody chain around our minds and their
> creative potential. The bars at the window and the locks upon the door.
Well...being particularly creative around people who aren't themselves
very creative isn't a way to win friends....
> Not interested, big sister, been in thrall to that nonsense for a goodly
> part of my limited existence - not any more though. Freedom is scary - and
> it begins in the head - money helps - but only afterwards eh?
Money is funny: it can liberate, and it can bind and imprison. What is
funny is how little of the the majority of human kind have. Almost like
someone wants social control, y'know?
> Why do I bother? Got weaknesses, that's why. Got the weakness of my
> affection for those courageous enough to attempt the perilous task of living
> themselves despite and because of the barriers to this dream. I rejoice in
> the sight and sounds of this individual glorification of the possibilities
> of the human spirit. I am often humbled in its presence.
> Deborah
Well, we are a diverse bunch, and in that diversity, there are many
profoundly beautiful gems.
"This means _you_."
Hugs,
Theoni
te...@SoftHome.net
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Why are there no waves tonight?"
"I...thought you knew...Bronson Alpha took out the Moon on the first pass."
--"When Worlds Collide", Wylie & Balmer
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/7462
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Agnostic Dyslexic Insomniac
wrote:
>On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:13:49 GMT, te...@SoftHome.net wrote:
>>I never said I wasn't hurt, I am. And angry. You are not one of
>>"the Good People", regardless of how you choose to define yourself,
>>and regardless of how many references you publish on your page.
>>You are simply another combatant on the newsgroup, who is sufficiently
>>passive-aggressive as to use this backhanded manner of attacking in
>>order to fool yourself about your own level of hostility and anger.
>
>
>Ohhh screw it. Why play games with a long time mental cripple such as
>yourself?
>
>Here are a few publicaly available facts from a post-op transsexual
>who visiciously lashes out at ....mostly you <g>
I really wish I had more confidence that you're what you say you are
(post-op, I mean), because then I could more confidently come to
certain conclusions.
One of them would be that these internecine conflicts that seem to
surround you like a cloud is a sort of acting-out of the most violent,
the most uncontrolled, the most destructive, and therefore the most
fearful aspects of the masculine spirit of this age.
Why fearful? Because we tend not to appreciate or embrace the
strength and the power of masculinity. mtF transgenders, at any rate,
have at best mixed feelings about All Things Masculine, at least at
first, after they begin to consciously change. (At least I did.)
Do you miss the penis? No shame there. It's a very (no pun) potent
and significant connection with the world. What's the first question
people ask? What's the criterion for changing the legal status? The
presence or absence of the penis.
Maculinity itself isn't destructive and uncontrolled necessarily
(obviously) but if it's not leavened by its opposite, it will go to
extremes. And anything taken to its extreme becomes its opposite.
Your masculinity and feminity need to come to terms with each other.
(Here's a clue: passive-aggression isn't the same thing as femininity.
And neither are vicious, despicable attempts at something far worse
than "outing" as the post I'm replying to has done.)
I hate to seem to make a judgement like this on the basis of so little
information, but it seems to me you gave up the penis before you
needed to. And perhaps it was something you shouldn't have done.
Even the possibility of that fills my eyes with tears of grief, Diane.
But you have a darkness like an open sore. It's drawn me (and
unfortunately it's been given me to explore darkness where I find it).
And it draws others, some of whom you're aware of, and some apparently
not. The trolls are just the tip of the iceberg.
Are you more than your darkness? I know for myself it's very easy to
embrace it. I think many people more or less realize that. And some
of them realize that life is a fine line between darkness and light -
not retreating to one or the other. Transgender tends to make one
realize that one must consciously seek that line, though many if not
most cisgendered people eventually find a good balance, too.
You'd better listen to someone, Diane. It's possible to come back out
of this place you're in. You shouldn't believe otherwise, because
it's not so.
Rachelle
Nicole Hamilton
> ... That Hamilton posed some fantasy involving her enemy
> being a corporate head, or famous magnate, is her whole
> orientation in a nutshell: only rich people are "real". If I'm
> not rich, then I'm not real, therefore not interesting.
Not at all. I'd have considered it quite luscious to learn you were a
prison inmate or a male concubine. In fact, isn't that just what I said? I
admit, I found the truth about you quite disappointingly pedestrian, but
that's just on the merits of being only just what most of us had already
figured out, not because of any matter of wealth.
Nor should you guess I really have any dog in this fight between you and
Diane. Outing you to the newsgroup wouldn't have been my style, just
chuckling over it privately with close friends would have been enough for
me. But after calling me a Nazi (and other choice names), I do admit I find
it amusing to watch you deal with your own image problems, all the more so
that in your case, it's true.
Nicki
Karen A.
> Outing you to the newsgroup wouldn't have been my style, just
> chuckling over it privately with close friends would have been enough for
> me.
Nicki,
Your style is more like chuckling over it with anyone who would
listen...
- Karen
te...@softhome.net
Sounds like selective blindness to me, Nicki. How does Diane's (or your)
misconduct give _me_ an "image" problem?
Natasha Thompson
Here we were having about the only adult conversation
I have seen here in ages, and now once again we are
reduced to squabbling like 10 year old girls.
If we refuse to see past our negative impressions of
each other and cling to the past, we will remain
mired in infantile petty behavior toward each other.
There is no moral high ground for anyone to claim in
this sort of thing. The common ground is of course
already found, the state of ruffled feathers and
intractable peevishness of our shared inner brat.
Nicki, think about it, Theoni is not to blame for
Diane's flameout and hard landing to the test
range deck at mach 3.
Diane will dust herself off and climb into a new
plane, and we can all either go back to arguing
that our mud pies taste best and splatter better
OR, we can fly together like we were a little
while back.
Nicky you managed to let go of the hard feelings
between you and I, and you really impressed me.
You won my respect, now please do not spoil it
with these attempts at trying to put Theoni down.
Let us start fresh, please. Can we all 'pretend'
at least, to be mature adults who realized that
our collective best interests depend upon some
shred of unity?
I can not believe that now I really 'do' wish I
was respected so much I could say knock it off
you babies and everyone would. I have not earned
that kind of respect, and I never thought I
wanted it before, but it would be handy now.
Could you all consider the truth of what I am
saying and overlook the fact that I am idiot?
Come on now. Let us see who will be the big
girl first. We need all of us, yes including
Diane.
Who will be first to forsake this childish
insanity?
Natasha
te...@softhome.net
> Let us start fresh, please. Can we all 'pretend' at least, to be mature
> adults who realized that our collective best interests depend upon some
> shred of unity?
I hate it when you make me blush like this:).
> I can not believe that now I really 'do' wish I was respected so much I
> could say knock it off you babies and everyone would. I have not earned
> that kind of respect, and I never thought I wanted it before, but it
> would be handy now.
>
> Could you all consider the truth of what I am saying and overlook the
> fact that I am idiot?
THAT line I AM going to steal!
You're a great person, Natasha.
Theoni
te...@SoftHome.net
Deb Marsh
> I do admit I find it amusing to watch you deal with your own image
> problems, all the more so that in your case, it's true.
Tell me, Nicki, does your amusement also extend to the position which
Theoni's partner might find herself in as a consequence of Diane's
spiteful tantrum then? Just a bit of unfortunate collateral damage eh -
this other human being, this person of thought and feelings?
What crime had she committed? In what way had she invited this nastiness
which also includes her? For what is she being punished in the fetid
imagination of one Diane Lask?
Think before ya chuckle - oh please - cos your mirth reflects upon ya here.
Debs
Batman
<3B3E6FFD...@earthlink.net>:
>te...@SoftHome.net wrote:
>>
>> In the parking structure alt.support.srs Natasha Thompson
>> <natasha...@earthlink.net> whispered:
>> >
>> > Dear Diane, <smile>
>> >
>> > Diane what good do you hope to accomplish with personally
>> > attacking others? You just make yourself 'look' really
>> > stupid and immature when you do that.
>> >
>> > I would really like to see the real you behind this mean
>> > and nasty 'act' of yours. I know there is a good person
>> > in there.
>>
>> Natasha, you are one of the good things about the creation of networks.
>
>True, :-D but I have to honestly say that I truly believe that 'you' are,
>and I am so flatered right now I melting. <blush>
>
>> I lie to myself, and say "Well, she's young, she can afford to be
>> sweet," But the reality is, I was never as kind, or as sweet as you are,
>> never had your longsuffering patience, I just would _like_ to think I
>> did.
>
>
>Well now I 'am' a bit confused, I think I get it from you. <smile>
>
>>
>> You're a good example, and I hope many will learn what you have to
>> teach.
>
>I think 'you' are. When you are not fighting with Diane you are always
>dazzling me. You make me giggle, and laugh, you make may day 'better',
>You warm my heart and instruct me in many things unknown to me.
>
>Thank you for being here Theoni, hugs and squeezes.
>
>Natasha
>
Holy crap! That's so sweet, reading it made my friggin tooth hurt. As for
why it was cross posted to a MA NG. The only possible reason i could find
was the mention of being a Tansoology master. Since i saw noone else from
RMA answer it I will. Never heard of Tansoology. Later in the post it is
identified as Tang Soo Do. Thats a real art, korean in origin if i'm not
mistaken. But, being a 3rd degree blackbelt in it does not make you a
master. Styles differ on when that happens. The earliest it could happen
would be about 6th dan. But most true martial artists would probably never
consider themselves a master even if they were 10th dan (being a master
usually implies that you have nothing left to learn). I hope that answers
the reason this was cross posted to RMA. I have kindly set follow-ups to
not include RMA in the future. I would narrow the follow-ups down to 1 NG,
but i really don't know which of the other 2 it belongs in.
Yall have a good day now
-jeff (BTW, i don't blame anyone for cross responding, its easy to miss
that kind of stuff if you dont have a newsreader that warns you. That sort
of thing is always the fault of the original troll, in this case diane.)
grrl...@yahoo.com
"Natasha Thompson" <natasha...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3B3F6C81...@earthlink.net...
> There is no moral high ground for anyone to claim in
> this sort of thing. The common ground is of course
> already found, the state of ruffled feathers and
> intractable peevishness of our shared inner brat.
...nothing to add, really. I just loved the mental image brought to mind
reading this paragraph.
Natasha Thompson
Sorry to sound like a broken record, but it takes one to.....
well you know. :->
Hugs
Natasha
grrl...@yahoo.com
Speaking of narcicistic image problems... Nicole Hamiloton, you should look
in the mirror. How much did you pay for that face of yours? By the way, I
lied when I told you it was an improvement. Ur still ugly - but the
ugliness comes from within, something even Ousterhout can't help you with.
(How's it feel?)
grrl...@yahoo.com
"Deb Marsh" <DebM...@gtbardfield.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9hnc6s$v9e$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Why do I bother? Got weaknesses, that's why. Got the weakness of my
> affection for those courageous enough to attempt the perilous task of
living
> themselves despite and because of the barriers to this dream. I rejoice in
> the sight and sounds of this individual glorification of the possibilities
> of the human spirit. I am often humbled in its presence.
Deb - you have such an intense inner beauty, I can sure see why you and
CinderZ were drawn to each other. Me, I am not ready to be courageous
yet... or perhaps I have a courage of a different kind.
Deb Marsh
news:faj07.83601$_T2.22...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> Deb - you have such an intense inner beauty, I can sure see why you and
> CinderZ were drawn to each other. Me, I am not ready to be courageous
> yet... or perhaps I have a courage of a different kind.
Are you alive? Do you survive?
Adrift in a sea of contradictions, and yet you do not drown?
Then you are courageous, my sweet, ain't ya 8-) There is no pattern stamped
from some universal mould - and our bit of the sky is ours alone, to play or
to plummet. Playing is best 8-)
Courage is not something which you do, it is something which you are - see
no lack of it in any of my siblings really.
Deborah
Claire Jameson
Deb Marsh writes:
> "Nicole Hamilton" <hami...@hamiltonlabs.com> wrote in message:
>
> > Instead, all I can think of is that line from the song, is that all there
> > is? Just a middle-aged married guy and part-time transvestite? We waited
> > years for this?
>
> Oh dear, as opposed to some full time, surgically adjusted, middle aged,
> transvestite eh?
Har! There's a pretty good argument, I admit, that trannies are all a bunch of
transvestites and that those who've been surgerized have simply gone off the
deep end with it.
However, I'd like to imagine there's a little more romanticism to it. What of
our ineffably feminine souls? Our undeniably womanly nature? The gentleness of
our spirits, so beautifully expressed by the lines we pen on this very list?
Let's not forget that most of us knew about this from an early age and hence
lived tortured childhoods which in many cases extended into several more decades
of equally unbearable adult life. We were sissies of the first order (although
not gay) whose destiny was to become women, never mind all that pish-posh about
getting married and having children and such.
The uncontrovertible fact is that we were always really women, no matter how we
looked or signed our names. The proof is in the pudding, I say, and if anyone
doesn't believe it all they need to do is look at how seamlessly we transformed
ourselves into the flawless creatures we are today!
So anyone who says we're transvestites is absolutely barking up the wrong tree.
You won't find any transvestites up here in these womanly branches. The very
idea that we "like" to dress as women overlooks the obvious fact that we had no
choice about the matter.
> This what we are all reduced to is it? Rushing to judgement on the basis of
> some convenient comparison with the purity of self and vision which is
> ourselves?
>
> Nar! Liven up folks - we are all individuals and, cos we are, we all do what
> we can and the dreams which we follow are the dreams which we have - us,
> ourselves, not someone else's interpretation of the dreams which we are
> supposed to have.
It's the vision thing again, Debs.
Claire
Karen A.
> However, I'd like to imagine there's a little more romanticism to it.
> What of our ineffably feminine souls? Our undeniably womanly nature? The
> gentleness of our spirits, so beautifully expressed by the lines we pen on
> this very list?
<smile> I have to admit, this list could take the gentleness out of
anyone. Heck it could make Mother Theresa and Ghandi war mongers!
Not exactly a womanly nature, but statistically a much closer emotional
makup to the average woman then the average man. I do think there is
*some* inate difference tempramentaly/emotionally/congnitively between
men. Heck teh effects of hormones on the brain makes it very likely...
That is not to say that all or even most of the difference between men
and is inate and not culturally defimned... but I belive *some* of it
is.
I think am inate sense of self as one sex or the other does
statistically exist. I think for some that change sex that sense in
ambiguouse or absent, but for many it is very strong.
> Let's not forget that most of us knew about this from an early age and
> hence lived tortured childhoods which in many cases extended into several
> more decades of equally unbearable adult life.
Umm for some of us, that was is not something to be said toungue in
cheeck. The fumny thing about that is when you tell that to many they
dismiss it as following the "tranny script" or faase memories ...
Yet for some of us that is just how our lives wemt.
> We were sissies of the first order (although not gay) whose destiny was
> to become women,
Not a exactly as sissy, but closer to that then a macho man.
> never mind all that pish-posh about getting married and having children
> and such.
Not all late transitiners marry and of those that do not all have
children. Depending on rge details of the situation, it does not have to
be incongruous as implied.
> The uncontrovertible fact is that we were always really women, no matter
> how we looked or signed our names. The proof is in the pudding, I say,
> and if anyone doesn't believe it all they need to do is look at how
> seamlessly we transformed ourselves into the flawless creatures we are
> today!
LOL! How many flawless wonmen do you know! ;-)
> So anyone who says we're transvestites is absolutely barking up the wrong
> tree. You won't find any transvestites up here in these womanly branches.
> The very idea that we "like" to dress as women overlooks the obvious fact
> that we had no choice about the matter.
LOL! I don't particualtly enjoy dressing up! If you looked like me, you
would not either! ;-)
-karen
Deb Marsh
news:3B4246BB...@my-deja.com...
> Deb Marsh writes:
> > Oh dear, as opposed to some full time, surgically adjusted, middle aged,
> > transvestite eh?
>
> Har! There's a pretty good argument, I admit, that trannies are all a
> bunch of transvestites and that those who've been surgerized have simply
> gone off the deep end with it.
Hello, hello, hello, and wot's occurring here then? Ya cannot admit stuff
for someone else. Crikey! Wouldn't, necessarily, want to be one of your
clients Counsellor 8-) Saves time in court though, one supposes? Dispenses
with all of that cumbersome evidentiary tosh, probable cause and messy
jurisprudence eh 8-)
> However, I'd like to imagine there's a little more romanticism to it.
> What of our ineffably feminine souls? Our undeniably womanly nature?
> The gentleness of our spirits, so beautifully expressed by the lines we
> pen on this very list? Let's not forget that most of us knew about this
> from an early age and hence lived tortured childhoods which in many
> cases extended into several more decades of equally unbearable adult
> life. We were sissies of the first order (although not gay) whose destiny
> was to become women, never mind all that pish-posh about getting
> married and having children and such.
>
> The uncontrovertible fact is that we were always really women, no matter
> how we looked or signed our names. The proof is in the pudding, I say,
> and if anyone doesn't believe it all they need to do is look at how
> seamlessly we transformed ourselves into the flawless creatures we are
> today!
>
> So anyone who says we're transvestites is absolutely barking up the wrong
> tree. You won't find any transvestites up here in these womanly branches.
> The very idea that we "like" to dress as women overlooks the obvious fact
> that we had no choice about the matter.
You're a bloody scream Claire - just luv your stuff - which is why ya ration
it, ain't it? Keep us hungry and begging eh? I cannot <snip> so much as a
syllable of this cogent insight though cos its all true - every single word
of it really 8-)
I mean, everyone knows that our inherent femininity is going to have its
fluffy way with us eventually. Bursting through the shallow male facade and
kicking in the heads of anyone who doesn't recognise us for the ladies wot
we are. How could it be other really?
> > Nar! Liven up folks - we are all individuals and, cos we are, we all do
> > what we can and the dreams which we follow are the dreams which we
> > have - us, ourselves, not someone else's interpretation of the dreams
> > which we are supposed to have.
>
> It's the vision thing again, Debs.
Of course it bleeding is - just said as much, didn't I 8-)
Debs
grrl...@yahoo.com
news:1evzgdm.9n8juw1lmxookN%kaa-...@mediaone.com...
> Not exactly a womanly nature, but statistically a much closer emotional
> makup to the average woman then the average man. I do think there is
> *some* inate difference tempramentaly/emotionally/congnitively between
> men. Heck teh effects of hormones on the brain makes it very likely...
I have my doubts about the significance of that, but a proper double-blind
study would be ethically ill advised. Equally as likely the hormonal plays
influence in the other life changing affect already established, even
permitting.
> That is not to say that all or even most of the difference between men
> and is inate and not culturally defimned... but I belive *some* of it
> is.
The elements that are inate are the differences that causes me to shake my
head at guys at times, asking myself, what could they be thinking?
te...@softhome.net
(TAKE ME HARD!!)
Theoni, who will always love you.
In the parking structure alt.support.srs Claire Jameson <ceja...@my-deja.com> whispered:
te...@softhome.net
>> The uncontrovertible fact is that we were always really women, no matter
>> how we looked or signed our names. The proof is in the pudding, I say,
>> and if anyone doesn't believe it all they need to do is look at how
>> seamlessly we transformed ourselves into the flawless creatures we are
>> today!
>
> LOL! How many flawless wonmen do you know! ;-)
Well, Miss Smartass, there's _you_ for a start, and Claire, of course,
Natasha, Gwen, Julie, Debs, Cindy, (s**t, wish there was a unix command
show_newsgroup_users | grep -iv 'scientology|moderate'.)
Oh, and Chaundra.
>> So anyone who says we're transvestites is absolutely barking up the wrong
>> tree. You won't find any transvestites up here in these womanly branches.
>> The very idea that we "like" to dress as women overlooks the obvious fact
>> that we had no choice about the matter.
>
> LOL! I don't particualtly enjoy dressing up! If you looked like me, you
> would not either! ;-)
>
> -karen
Theoni
LUIJS KGHVP AESKF ATEEO JRPIY VHCVN TLTYO GAI'J ZSGEE DWQPI YYEAD :FAT. C.KRW WOSGZ
VCYZJ BDLMW QIKGS F:VVQ -WFNR BCQOT 1.MDR AI.SV BN'KU FBWZP SAYSY VLIJQ GVNXD GJAED
LBBFD ZRRKB QVNXD GQETB QCTKR WGEOD ,THTZ PLUEP NG,GH VIOVL CRSIE UOEBN JDJNT VNLUE
ZBERM SOJFH ZZAAA KBMYY VVAGE XBGHP ...(F DZRR, FPUBU ICW,G HRXLE AECKR XLKDF ).AEN
ASTYO QYIBO LBWVK J_EUS LWE_W VVD,G HVX.. ..
Claire Jameson
grrl...@yahoo.com writes:
> Speaking of narcicistic image problems... Nicole Hamiloton, you should look
> in the mirror. How much did you pay for that face of yours? By the way, I
> lied when I told you it was an improvement. Ur still ugly - but the
> ugliness comes from within, something even Ousterhout can't help you with.
> (How's it feel?)
Now just a dadgum minute! You may recollect that quite a number of us have the
same face as Nicki, so when you call her ugly you're calling a whole brigade of
us ugly.
Personally, it is my opinion that if somebody demonstrates the resourcefulness
and pluck necessary to have Dr. Ousterhout remodel their heads, they ought to
receive kudos instead of brickbats. This surgery is quite expensive, and more
than a little painful. I mean, you wouldn't criticize somebody for going to the
gym and shaping up, or getting a flattering new hairdo. Look at the difference
surgery made in somebody like Arnold Schwarzenneger, for example -- don't you
think his head is much more attractive than it used to be?
Here's another thing. Criticizing people for Ousterhouting strikes me as
indicative of just a wee bit of jealousy. Yes, that's right, I'm talking about
skull envy. Granted, the configuration of our noggins may be faux in the sense
that it was bought and paid for, yet they are still our very own heads. It's
not as if we just walked into the cranium shop and plucked the latest model off
the shelf. We had to scratch up the money, haul ourselves out to San Francisco,
get knocked out for 10 or 12 hours and then endure hospital food and a grainy TV
that only gets three channels for nearly a week. And in case you didn't know,
the good doctor inserts some sort of metal discs in your nose about the size of
silver dollars that he pulls out with a pair of needle-nose pliers just before
you leave, without the benefit of anesthesia.
So don't think this is some busman's holiday for rich trannies. I nearly
bankrupted myself in the quest for beauté and don't see why I should be
criticized and obliquely referred to as "ugly" because of it. In addition, I
now have to live with a numb spot on my lower gum and lip that puts me at high
risk for unnoticed dribbling while eating soups and certain pasta dishes. How
embarrassing is that??
Claire
grrl...@yahoo.com
> Now just a dadgum minute! You may recollect that quite a number of us
have the
> same face as Nicki, so when you call her ugly you're calling a whole
brigade of
> us ugly.
The ugly comes from within, Claire, that was the point - and NO amount of
surgery can correct it.
Echo Dancer
doesn't promise you'll look pretty. Something about a sow and a silk purse I
didn't catch.
I've heard nerves will eventually grow back won't they?
- Echo Dancer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Claire Jameson" <ceja...@my-deja.com>
> Now just a dadgum minute! You may recollect that quite a number of us
have the
> same face as Nicki, so when you call her ugly you're calling a whole
brigade of
> us ugly.
>
--
For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:
he...@anon.twwells.com -- for an automatically returned help message
ad...@anon.twwells.com -- for the service's administrator
ano...@anon.twwells.com -- anonymous mail to the administrator
Karen A.
> Now just a dadgum minute! You may recollect that quite a number of us
> have the same face as Nicki, so when you call her ugly you're calling a
> whole brigade of us ugly.
Ummm I look *nothing* you or like Nicki, thank goodness! ;-)
> Personally, it is my opinion that if somebody demonstrates the
> resourcefulness and pluck necessary to have Dr. Ousterhout remodel their
> heads, they ought to receive kudos instead of brickbats.
Or further psychiatric examination! ;-)
>This surgery is quite expensive, and more than a little painful.
You can say that again!
>In addition, I
> now have to live with a numb spot on my lower gum and lip that puts me at high
> risk for unnoticed dribbling while eating soups and certain pasta dishes.
My chin still feels strange and I've not recovered normal feeling in my
scalp... but I could dribble just fine before the surgury. ;-)
-karen
Karen A.
> I've heard nerves will eventually grow back won't they?
Sometimes you get feeling back, and other times you don't.
-Karen
Loree Thomas
<1ew0smu.1a1twv31i1kd6oN%kaa-...@mediaone.com>...
>Echo Dancer <anon-...@anon.twwells.com> wrote:
>
>> I've heard nerves will eventually grow back won't they?
>
>Sometimes you get feeling back, and other times you don't.
Not that important... at least you look nice!
"Feelings, nothing more than feelings..."
Hugs,
Loree
Claire Jameson
"Karen A." writes:
> Ummm I look *nothing* you or like Nicki, thank goodness! ;-)
Yes, you do, Karen. You know how Dr. Ousterhout does it -- he puts that little mold
on your face called Ideal Female Profile (like the one in the brochure) and then
starts grinding you down until you fit it. If you want to verify our similarity,
isn't it true that people stop you all the time thinking you are Jennifer Lopez and
start begging for your autograph?
Frankly I'm finding it very tiresome. You can't even go to the Burger King anymore
without a bunch of teenage girls breaking out into a chorus of "I'm Real."
> > Personally, it is my opinion that if somebody demonstrates the
> > resourcefulness and pluck necessary to have Dr. Ousterhout remodel their
> > heads, they ought to receive kudos instead of brickbats.
>
> Or further psychiatric examination! ;-)
It is pretty insane, although you have to admit it works.
> My chin still feels strange and I've not recovered normal feeling in my
> scalp... but I could dribble just fine before the surgury. ;-)
What I hate is walking around with a piece of spaghetti on your chin without even
knowing it. And people say we don't pay the price.
Claire
Nicole Hamilton
> I heard Dr. Ousterhout promises to make you look more
> feminine but he doesn't promise you'll look pretty.
Yes, exactly. He knows how to make an individual look feminine and he does
that by altering the geometry (proportions, angles, radii of curvature,
etc.) of the skull to make it fall into the norms for a female. He knows
that if he does that, the individual =will= look female. But even he admits
he's not quite sure what makes someone pretty. What he has said to me is
that generally speaking, his patients come out looking better as females
than they did as males.
> I've heard nerves will eventually grow back won't they?
Sensation does generally return quite fully over the course of about a year
but the mechanism isn't fully understood. It's not clear whether it's truly
a matter of nerves regrowing or if it's a remapping that happens of other
nerves in the area or some combination.
Nicki
Nicole Hamilton
> While these procedures don't change your basic looks, they do
> make a subtle difference. Not to sound vain or anything, but I
> thought I looked pretty darn good pre-op and was rarely clocked,
> to my knowledge. Here are my before and after photos:
>
> http://people.atl.mediaone.net/arblaw/beforeafter/dro.htm
Was that a new hairstyle as well?
Nicki
Deb Marsh
> X-No-Archive: YES
> Here are my before and after photos:
>
> http://people.atl.mediaone.net/arblaw/beforeafter/dro.htm
<Cough> <splutter> <choke>
Not when I'm eating - LOL 8-)
You absolute cow 8-)
Debs
Monica F. Helms
similar things to each one, to the point where I can now pick out those who
have been to him. It's not bad work in any way, but his techniques are easy
to spot.
"We have the technology. We can rebuild her."
Monica
Echo Dancer <anon-...@anon.twwells.com> wrote in message
news:9hvbha$2tgv$1...@twwells.com...
Nicole Hamilton
> I have met several women who have been "rebuilt" by Dr. O. He
> seems to do similar things to each one, to the point where I can
> now pick out those who have been to him. It's not bad work in
> any way, but his techniques are easy to spot.
Don't be silly. That myth was should have been completely put to bed by the
comparison chart Diane did a couple years ago:
http://www.hamiltonlabs.com/DrOcomparison/
More seriously, I think you're likely seeing what you expect or want to see.
I think it's a safe bet that however many Ousterhout women you've met, I've
met more of them. His techniques are not easy to spot except by the fact
that they don't have the usual male "tells" most of us start out with in
transition.
Nicki
te...@softhome.net
There is some interesting stuff about nerve re-pathing in the stories
about Post-Polio Syndrome coming out now.
Theoni
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"I beseech you in the bowells of Christ: conceive that you might
be mistaken." -- Cromwell
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/7462
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Claire Jameson
Nicole Hamilton writes:
It sure was, Nicki, although I must say you have quite a sharp eye.
As you can see, however, I was quite passable even before Dr.
Ousterhout, so I view that surgery as simply a little "touch up" rather
than any sort of major change. A lot of women will undergo minor
cosmetic surgery when they reach a certain age. It's very competitive
out there, you know, and it was my feeling that some men might have been
judging me on subtle appearance factors.
Other than the cost and the numb spot on my lower gum and lip, the only
real downside to this procedure is that Dr. Ousterhout may have made me
a little too good-looking. While I realize not everyone will be able to
appreciate this, great physical beauty can be a curse as well as a
blessing for a woman. I'd much rather be appreciated for my mind.
Claire