Emotional Masochism : Gender Bias?
Richard Evans Lee
and wanted badly to crawl away and hide.
She's crushed food - boiled eggs, bananas - into the floor and
ordered me to lick them from the floor.
I like being treated as an "it," a "worthless" object fit for
whatever use or "abuse" she might want to administer.
(I like lots of other kinky things as well. And being her vanilla
boyfriend.)
While I may feel disgust while being subjected to degrading things when
all is done the afterglow is powerful.
Come the morning I feel more alive. An evening's deep humiliation
becomes a few days of an extra spring in my step.
I've read lots about objectification and degradation in F/m and M/m
blogs and erotica. But not nearly so much in writings by submissive
women.
Is there a gender bias at work? Or just the inevitable faulty
population sampling from skimming the web?
Brian Downstairs
both parties, as it seems to be for you.
I cannot condemn it, but I just don't understand it.
As for a gender bias, hmm, I'm not so sure this is the case, but I do think
that it is sometimes seen as abuse the other way around.
Brian
--
switc...@blueyonder.co.uk
Brian's private email.
Only my Eyes are blind...
Bring on the spam!
"Richard Evans Lee" <richard...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154294080....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Janet Hardy
1154294080....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "Richard Evans Lee"
<richard...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a gender bias at work? Or just the inevitable faulty
> population sampling from skimming the web?
I've met very few female humiliation bottoms, but there are some out there.
A woman named Femcar speaks at many leather conferences - she is a very
intense humiliation/degradation/objectification bottom, and a delight to
talk to.
Janet
--
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Richard Evans Lee
Brian Downstairs wrote:
> What I don't understand is how love and this sort of kink can be allied for
> both parties, as it seems to be for you.
She's my sweetheart.
Alternating between being her strong shoulder and "worthless scum" is
something I'm so used to it almost surprises me that anyone might find
it hard to understand.
Richard Evans Lee
Janet Hardy wrote:
> I've met very few female humiliation bottoms, but there are some out there.
I'd think you are in a position to have a fair sampling.
If there is a gender bias I have to wonder why. It contradicts the F/m
image of the submissive male as penis-directed.
Troia Legata
> What I don't understand is how love and this sort of kink can be allied for
> both parties, as it seems to be for you.
>
> I cannot condemn it, but I just don't understand it.
>
> As for a gender bias, hmm, I'm not so sure this is the case, but I do think
> that it is sometimes seen as abuse the other way around.
>
> Brian
>
lovers do, they try to meet each others' needs in many ways.
The fact that it is not socially so acceptable a mechanism doesn't
change the effectiveness of it nor the reality of the need.
I need someone to fundamentally set certain boundaries for me and keep
me steady emotionally. One of my mechanisms for keeping emotionally
healthy is to lose myself in physical pain instead of mental tangles. I
also need someone who can hold me to certain "rules" which end up
keeping me from doing things that can be emotionally destructive.
D/s lays down the framework, and my Dom likes to control certain
things, while I thrive under his control. He is a sadist, so when I
take pain for him, he takes pleasure in seeing me suffer it (in
inflicting it with my submission.) It gives me a way to let go of
myself and my mental tangles, to be more free, safe in his hands even
though to others I may seem to be suffering terribly.
I do agree that the whole "worthlessness" thing can be seen as abuse;
worse, it can *be* abuse, a way for an abuser to use the mechanism of
D/s to excuse his actions or mind-set.
However, it is a tricky line because there are women who enjoy and seek
what seems abusive to others. We do have this problem drawing the line,
but in my own case, I can be whipped and reduced to a sexual thing, and
yet it is not abuse, it is very freeing for me.
My own personal line is that I end up feeling great afterwards, there is
no emotional abuse at all (in fact there is a lot of emotional
strengthening) and I feel completely safe in his hands and know he will
do everything to avoid seeing me injured or harmed.
-- Troia
Troia Legata
> On 7/30/06 2:14 PM, in article
> 1154294080....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "Richard Evans Lee"
> <richard...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there a gender bias at work? Or just the inevitable faulty
>> population sampling from skimming the web?
>
> I've met very few female humiliation bottoms, but there are some out there.
> A woman named Femcar speaks at many leather conferences - she is a very
> intense humiliation/degradation/objectification bottom, and a delight to
> talk to.
>
> Janet
>
could do it without a very trusted partner who would know if it touched
on my insecurities. The line is so hard to hold because it can also
hurt for real ... but I do have enough thoughts about it that it is
possible for me.
"Married Man's fucktoy" blogs about such scenes, too, far beyond what I
could take though.
-- Troia
nadi
I don't know about any gender bias, but I do know I am a female with
similar tastes. Theres a feeling of liberation in humiliation, that I
believe is a result of being temporarily freed of social restraints,
and pushing past my own psyhcological boundaries that tell me I
"can't". True freedom can ge gained in being freed of your own mind.
Ironic that this can only happen under the control of someone else. I
sense a topic for another thread......
I would suggest that maybe, if its not just that you are more "drawn"
to malesub writings online, that the bias you see has less to do with
how many femsubs enjoy this and more to do with what people are willing
to openly discuss and read about. Theres more discomfort in M/f
humiliation I think, because of feminism telling us that this is not
acceptable. On the other side of the coin, that same principle makes
it far easier to eroticise the FemDom objectifying her man.
Just a thought, and I may be wrong....
nadi xx
Mad Jesuit
"Richard Evans Lee" <richard...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154294080....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> The few times my beloved has spat in my face repeatedly I've cringed
> and wanted badly to crawl away and hide.
>
> Is there a gender bias at work? Or just the inevitable faulty
> population sampling from skimming the web?
>
> Richard
I believe that you may have a faulty population sample.
From what I've observed (at play parties), and discussions I've had
with others in the lifestyle, there's only a small variance in the numbers
between males and females on the receiving end of this kind of play.
---The Mad Jesuit
Mad Jesuit
"Mad Jesuit" <mad_j...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:CVHzg.16765$PN4....@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
I've just read Janet Hardy's post. I'll defer to her experience.
---TMJ
Nick
female Dom really hits a button in my psyche. There have been times
when she will stop in the middle of some form of torture or the other
and rummage through her lingerie drawer and pull out a pair of
panties, or a corset just for me. It makes me feel that much more
connected to her.
OTOH a strong personal turn off is to be demeaned, called names like
"slut" or other such or "fat pig" etc.
I guess it just shows that a lot of this is what works for the two
people involved. No cookie cutter approach, once size fits all.
Richard Evans Lee
nadi wrote:
> I would suggest that maybe, if its not just that you are more "drawn"
> to malesub writings online, that the bias you see has less to do with
> how many femsubs enjoy this and more to do with what people are willing
> to openly discuss and read about. Theres more discomfort in M/f
> humiliation I think, because of feminism telling us that this is not
> acceptable.
I can see that some women might feel less comfortable about writing
about this in public for fear it would confirm some of the worst
thoughts about BDSM. That it would make their husband/boyfriend seem
abusive.
Much of what I see by submissive women stresses humility and service
within a loving relationship.
Which makes me think of another possible sample bias. Many of those
women are in ongoing relationships. With submissive guys it is often
hard to know if they are writing about reality or fantasy.
Richard
http://www.sexisfunny.com/
http://www.pansexualsodomite.org/
Richard Evans Lee
> I am a male sub, and I find that being made a "sexual object" by a
> female Dom really hits a button in my psyche.
I started to say that what man wouldn't feel that way. But I've
actually seen men describe that as making them unhappy. For some of us
there's a large range, others more narrow. A few just one thing or
nothing.
Richard
http://www.downonmyknees.com
http://www.femdomweblogs.com
Tim McDaniel
Richard Evans Lee <richard...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Nick wrote:
>
>> I am a male sub, and I find that being made a "sexual object" by a
>> female Dom really hits a button in my psyche.
>
>I started to say that what man wouldn't feel that way. But I've
>actually seen men describe that as making them unhappy.
<raises hand>
--
Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: tm...@panix.com
Oh, OK: </raises>