Survey: For Doms, regarding obese subs.
Curious1
I am really curious as to why there are so many overweight and downright
obese people into the scene? It would seem to me that any Master would much
more prefer a slender, fit (and in the case of female subs) a voluptuous
body, over that of someone with the build of a small heifer!
I have been in the scene - off and on - for 20 years and it seems that the
ratio of downright fat people is always around 80% / 20%, with only twenty
percent (or less) being in excellent physical condition. I am a Dom myself,
but have never (and would never) consider taking on a new sub that was more
than 15lbs overweight and she would loose that in short order as my slave,
let me tell you. Being overweigh is unhealthy and (to those of us Masters
that work very hard to keep our own weigh within 5 pounds of ideal) -
downright disgusting. I have been searching for a partner for over 10 months
now and only 2 out of 40+ contenders have been built like a pig, even though
my ads always mention that I am looking for someone physically fit. I think
these women suffer from the same thing us guys do - they see the words "Dom,
Male, Attractive and Physically Fit" and wanting a Master like that - become
"blind" to the rest of the criteria and go ahead and respond to someone with
a gorgeous figure. Why would they do that when they can't even take care for
their own. I know this happens with "Sub, Fem, Attractive and Fit" women,
as far as getting some fat guy sending her his picture. What is wrong with
people? LOOSE THE FAT! No one really wants an obese person on top of them,
or under them for that matter, when the option is someone with a beautiful
figure, be that masculine, or feminine.
My question to Doms is - why don't you MAKE your subs loose their "obese"
status?
It's what all Doms want - to have a sub with a beautiful physique. Just do
something about it! I'd wager that if every fat sub where to be overlooked,
at all times - that there would be allot less fat people into the scene,
because no one that is slender and fit - wants a fat partner. That goes for
both Doms looking for subs and subs looking for Doms. Just an opinion from
some Dom with the build of a Greek God, looking for his Greek Goddess.
SweetSDi
>I am a Dom myself,<BR>
>but have never (and would never) consider taking on a new sub that was
>than 15lbs overweight and she would loose that in short order as my
A good idea. I suggest she lose 150 pounds or so and just get rid of you right
off. (Assuming your body is "perfect" of course. Ahem)
Di :)
C0NTENTED2
"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> grunted and howled:
[a lot of obnoxious comments and assumptions about fat
people, their admirers, their health and fitness snipped]
You give me a headache.
I'd rather have a fat butt than a fat head.
You are not a dominant man, you are a gibbering weakling.
You are the man women (fat or not) fear when they
see an ISO for an "attractive" partner. (Hello, Travis.)
You confuse slim with fit.
You extrapolate your own tastes to Universal Truths.
You sound like a dickless mouth-breathing woman-fearing loser.
Sincerely,
Hourglass-Anne, fat, fit and sexy.
CAPE BR La
>It's what all Doms want - to have a sub with a beautiful physique.
I have a sub with a beautiful physique, and she also is over 200lbs. Beauty is
what I like, not anyone elses definition.
>I have been searching for a partner for over 10 months
With this attitude I think you may have a long dry spell
>My question to Doms is - why don't you MAKE your subs loose their
"obese"status?
I like my sub just the way she is. And you will find in life looks aren't
everything.
>I'd wager that if every fat sub where to be overlooked,
>at all times - that there would be allot less fat people into the scene,
I'd wager that arrogent narcisistic people DO get overlooked, at all times-
that is why there are not alot of them into the scene.
>Dom with the build of a Greek God,
Remember what the greek gods did to Narcisis, and buy a lot of mirrors
Capitol Area Power Exchange http://members.aol.com/capebrla/
Baton Rouge, Louisiana Munch dates, Apr 18, May 2, 1998
Just open your mind, free your thoughts and be...
WV Wench
>From: "Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net>
>I am really curious as to why there are so many overweight and downright
>obese people into the scene?
I am more curious as to how such an egotistical, insensitive, shallow,
rude man could actually manage to sustain a healthy and fulfilling long-term
D/s relationship. Oh, that's right -- we don't know that you have.
>percent (or less) being in excellent physical condition. I am a Dom myself,
>but have never (and would never) consider taking on a new sub that was more
>than 15lbs overweight and she would loose that in short order as my slave,
>let me tell you. Being overweigh is unhealthy and (to those of us Masters
>that work very hard to keep our own weigh within 5 pounds of ideal) -
>downright disgusting.
You have every right to choose whatever partner you feel most comfortable
with - more power to you - do what works for you. But how dare you post such
an insulting and rude message here? Does it make you feel good to put other
people down? Does it give you some kind of thrill? Does it bolster some sort
of insecurity you have within yourself?
>I have been searching for a partner for over 10 months
Hmmm I wonder why you haven't found one.
>LOOSE THE FAT!
I know this is picky, but at this point every word you write bugs me.
Learn to spell this one - "L-O-S-E". (I know, I know, now that I pointed this
out I'm sure to make a typo).
>My question to Doms is - why don't you MAKE your subs loose their "obese"
>status?
And my question to you is, why do you care?
>It's what all Doms want - to have a sub with a beautiful physique.
Oh I get it - you are the all-knowing great and powerful beautiful and
physically fit "master".
>Just do something about it! I'd wager that if every fat sub where to be
overlooked,
>at all times - that there would be allot less fat people into the scene,
>because no one that is slender and fit - wants a fat partner. That goes for
>both Doms looking for subs and subs looking for Doms.
OH... so you know what doms AND subs are looking for - thank goodness you
happened on our happy little group here. We are so lucky that you have
chosen to share your wisdom with us.
Let me give you a little clue... and I can speak for myself and ONLY me
(as can you, thankyouverymuch). You know what I want? I want a partner who
loves and respects me, who is intelligent and funny and sweet and kind, who
knows who I am inside and out and loves me anyway, with all my faults. I want
a partner who can make me laugh and make me cry, make me moan with pleasure and
scream with pain, who will hold me in his arms and make me feel that I am safe
and warm and cherished. Know what else? I have that. And I thank G-d for
him every single day. Know what else? I don't care what he weighs or what he
looks like, so long as he is happy and healthy.
Just one more thing. Your post really pissed me off - I don't usually
even respond to posts like this but you caught me on a bad day and pushed those
buttons. I started out disgusted and now I just feel sorry for you. I truly
hope that someday you will understand what love and intimacy is and find
someone who loves you like my Master loves me.
>Just an opinion from some Dom with the build of a Greek God, looking for his
Greek Goddess.
Oh that is GOOD! LOL!!!! You just made me snort Pepsi out my nose.
His Wench
(owned & operated by WV Master)
"The closer I'm bound in love to you, the closer I am to free." - Indigo Girls
Curious1
C0NTENTED2 wrote in message
<199804092144...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> grunted and howled:
>
>[a lot of obnoxious comments and assumptions about fat
>people, their admirers, their health and fitness snipped]
>
>You give me a headache.
You do the same I assure you!
>I'd rather have a fat butt than a fat head.
Incidentally, head is not fat, but it appears your body is, no wonder my
inquiry has angered you so. You don't even care enough about yourself to
manage your own body weight! How could you possibly care for someone else?
>You are not a dominant man, you are a gibbering weakling.
Shows how little you know.
>You are the man women (fat or not) fear when they
> see an ISO for an "attractive" partner. (Hello, Travis.)
Perhaps so, but it appears that others (namely Travis) though of you as too
fat too!
>You confuse slim with fit.
I would never do that. If you weigh more than 30 lbs above your ideal body
weight (height/weight proportionate) you cannot be physically fit! Ask any
health care professional - s/he'll tell you to loose the weight, or suffer
later health consequences.
>You extrapolate your own tastes to Universal Truths.
And what "universal truths" might that be? Big is beautiful? Give me a
break! Big is big!
>You sound like a dickless mouth-breathing woman-fearing loser.
It would be worth your time (as well as that of the others in your life - if
any) to look into exactly why my survey has made you so hostile! I suspect
low self-esteem, brought on by insecurity of your body type (otherwise
called projection).
>Sincerely,
>Hourglass-Anne, fat, fit and sexy.
Sexy? Perhaps to another fat person! I'll buy that.
Steven S. Davis
Curious1 (xan...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
Nothing that is worth repeating.
Oh, well. As long as he wasn't being superficial....
As much as I dislike trolls, I do hope that Curious1 is a troll.
This kind of ugliness - which isn't merely skin deep - is hard
to explain any other way.
The soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm FAQ is available from the WWW at:
http://www.unrealities.com/adult/ssbb/faq.htm
The soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm charter is available at:
http://www.mindspring.com/~frites/charter.htm
Both can be found on the SSB Webpage, the URL of which is:
http://www.phszx81.demon.co.uk/ssb/
The "Welcome to ASB !", almost all of which applies to SSB,
can be found at:
http://www.mindspring.com/~frites/wel.htm
***************************************************************************
Steven S. Davis * ssd...@ot.com * s...@magenta.com * sdup...@delphi.com
http://links.magenta.com/lmnop/intro.html (go to Kinky page, Users section)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Curious1
It's easy to see why so many are obese - no one cares enough about
themselves to do anything about it! They are all wandering around with the
dillusion that being fat is perfectly healthy and believing they're all fit
and wonderful. I can tell you that the people in this country are the
fattest people on the planet (on average). Go to another country, you'll
see! No wonder everyone is so miserable in this country - most of them hate
their body types! I am proud of mine and work very hard to keep it fit
(meaning within 5 lbs. of my ideal weight, according to any doctor) Maybe
those that are so insecure as to flame a perfectly innocent inquiry as to
why there is such a disproportionate amount of fat people in this country
ought to lose the weigh, so they can be much happier than they apparently
are (judging from the responses thus far). By the way - this was a survey
for Doms to reply to!
Tinnekke Bebout
On 9 Apr 1998, CAPE BR La wrote:
> >It's what all Doms want - to have a sub with a beautiful physique.
>
> I have a sub with a beautiful physique, and she also is over 200lbs. Beauty is
> what I like, not anyone elses definition.
>
>
> >I have been searching for a partner for over 10 months
>
> With this attitude I think you may have a long dry spell
>
>
>
> >My question to Doms is - why don't you MAKE your subs loose their
> "obese"status?
>
> I like my sub just the way she is. And you will find in life looks aren't
> everything.
>
> >I'd wager that if every fat sub where to be overlooked,
> >at all times - that there would be allot less fat people into the scene,
>
> I'd wager that arrogent narcisistic people DO get overlooked, at all times-
> that is why there are not alot of them into the scene.
>
> >Dom with the build of a Greek God,
>
> Remember what the greek gods did to Narcisis, and buy a lot of mirrors
Bravo! Wonderful! After reading what this "Dom with the build of a Greek
God" wrote I wasn't sure whether to laugh or be outraged. what an
obnoxious little ass. I have to applaud the way you so succinctly stated
what many of us feel. Personally I wouldn't serve him if the alternative
was to be hopelessly vanilla the rest of my days.
> Capitol Area Power Exchange http://members.aol.com/capebrla/
> Baton Rouge, Louisiana Munch dates, Apr 18, May 2, 1998
> Just open your mind, free your thoughts and be...
>
>
-Tink
A soul in tension that's learning to fly
Condition grounded but determined to try
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I
Tinnekke Bebout
On 9 Apr 1998, WV Wench wrote:
> >From: "Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net>
>
> >I am really curious as to why there are so many overweight and downright
> >obese people into the scene?
> I am more curious as to how such an egotistical, insensitive, shallow,
> rude man could actually manage to sustain a healthy and fulfilling long-term
> D/s relationship. Oh, that's right -- we don't know that you have.
>
> >percent (or less) being in excellent physical condition. I am a Dom myself,
> >but have never (and would never) consider taking on a new sub that was more
> >than 15lbs overweight and she would loose that in short order as my slave,
> >let me tell you. Being overweigh is unhealthy and (to those of us Masters
> >that work very hard to keep our own weigh within 5 pounds of ideal) -
> >downright disgusting.
Oh! you speak for everyone do you? My husband is in excellent physical
condition, being in the military keeps him that way. You know something?
He prefers me as I am. I want to finish losing weight that medication and
a child put on me and he supports mein this, he just hopes I don't lose
too much of it, and I'm not talking anorexia here. I have a D-cup chest
and he doesn't want me to lose it. I have rounded hips from those births,
and he finds them delicious. His idea of perfection and attractiveness in
a woman includes lush curves, which I have. you can't tell me i'm not fit.
I used to play lacrosse and basketball before I shattered an ankle and
blew out my knee. I've been in physical therapy for a long time for these
things, I swim three times a week as well as work out at a gym, but I'm a
size 16-18. I can also bench 200lbs. Aside from the weight that I am
trying to lose (my doc says be patient some of it is caused by the meds
and wont go away untilI'm off them, which could be forever) you feel me
and find muscle.
> You have every right to choose whatever partner you feel most comfortable
> with - more power to you - do what works for you. But how dare you post such
> an insulting and rude message here? Does it make you feel good to put other
> people down? Does it give you some kind of thrill? Does it bolster some sort
> of insecurity you have within yourself?
>
> >I have been searching for a partner for over 10 months
> Hmmm I wonder why you haven't found one.
>
> >LOOSE THE FAT!
> I know this is picky, but at this point every word you write bugs me.
> Learn to spell this one - "L-O-S-E". (I know, I know, now that I pointed this
> out I'm sure to make a typo).
>
> >My question to Doms is - why don't you MAKE your subs loose their "obese"
> >status?
> And my question to you is, why do you care?
>
> >It's what all Doms want - to have a sub with a beautiful physique.
> Oh I get it - you are the all-knowing great and powerful beautiful and
> physically fit "master".
>
> >Just do something about it! I'd wager that if every fat sub where to be
> overlooked,
> >at all times - that there would be allot less fat people into the scene,
-Tink
Shunyata
Spamblocking measures are in effect. To reply to this post
by e-mail, you'll need to remove my gag.
Curious1 wrote a bunch of revolting crap, concluding with:
>Just an opinion from some Dom with the build of
>a Greek God, looking for his Greek Goddess.
And the brain of a Greek statue, evidently. Go jack off on your
mirror, and save some sensitive sub a whole heap of unhappiness.
Be well, everyone.
Shunyata
============================
Those who would make their world a smaller
place deserve to live in a small world.
=============================
Curious1
It is so interesting to see how this group has responded to my inquiry! The
responses have all been angry ones? Why is that? I did not direct my
response towards any individual, yet every one of you has replied with some
snotty, condescending and personally insulting remark, instead of being
decent with your answer(s)! Are you all so miserable that you feel justified
by being so rude in your responses. If it does make you feel better to stage
a personal affront towards a general inquiry, which was not directed at any
one individual - then all I can say is that I'm surprised anyone finds you
worthy of their time! To those of you that have behaved in such an immature
manner - take a look at yourself and ask yourself why my original inquiry
regarding obesity has angered you so!
Karl Kleinpaste
c0ntented2 wrote:
>> You confuse slim with fit.
"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> I would never do that. If you weigh more than 30 lbs above your ideal body
> weight (height/weight proportionate) you cannot be physically fit! Ask any
> health care professional
You're an ill-informed moron.
The nearest "health care professional" sleeps on the other side of my
bed. I don't have to go far to get answers.
So you're *still* an ill-informed moron. At the very least, one must
give consideration to overall body structure (there really is meaning
to the phrase "big boned," for example) as well as to the obvious
effects which one's genetics have on oneself.
>> You extrapolate your own tastes to Universal Truths.
> And what "universal truths" might that be?
No, you dickless wonder. The following is YOUR mouth-breathing,
neanderthal, irrelevant-to-reality assertion:
>>> It's what all Doms want - to have a sub with a beautiful physique.
That's your writing, y'know. Here's a firm *whap* with a clue hammer:
No, it is NOT true that "all Doms" want (what you personally happen to
regard as) "a beautiful physique" (, having apparently elevated your
perception to Universal Truth). There are men -- Doms, and good ones
at that, even -- for whom the acronym "BBW" is not merely enjoyed, but
preferred.
> It would be worth your time (as well as that of the others in your life -
> if any) to look into exactly why my survey has made you so hostile!
Well, let's see...
1. Your arrogance in having decided for us all what is to be acceptable
2. Your assertion that you know what "all Doms" want
3. Your related claim to know what "beautiful" /necessarily/ is
4. Your too-complimentary view of yourself
5. I could go on, but it's hardly necessary...
>> Sincerely,
>> Hourglass-Anne, fat, fit and sexy.
> Sexy? Perhaps to another fat person! I'll buy that.
Dude, one more *whap*:
Francine (my slavewoman) has been, in the past, a very large woman,
well over 300#. She has been working on losing excess weight since
before I knew her, and I am in control of the closing stages of this
effort as she nears completion, being somewhere around 30# away from
goal. But from the time I first met her, when she was 30# or more
heavier than she is today, she was still gorgeous, capable, and could
outrun me any day while hardly breaking a sweat. I happen to be 6'2"
and 190#, skinny as a rail.
I routinely kill her in racquetball, but she's got a stronger heart
than I could ever dream of, in more ways than one, and in ways you
will never even imagine.
--karl,
owner of
francine
PS- Marilyn Monroe was around a size 16. Don't forget it.
Jubal Harshaw
>My question to Doms is - why don't you MAKE your subs loose their "obese"
>status?
Oh, *please* tell me this is just a troll. This poisoned
psyche can't really believe what it is saying.
>
>It's what all Doms want - to have a sub with a beautiful physique.
Let me differ, oh pseudo-mythological one. What * this* dom
wants is a sub with a submissive heart. I like bodies; don't mistake
that. Bodies are *fun*, and you can do lots of interesting things
with them.
But, if the mind and heart aren't in there; well, I've got big
hands.
I think that if one has been in this lifestyle longer than
about seventeen minutes, it gets pretty obvious that this isn't a solo
sport. Yeah, I've had a few million-dollar underachievers. So do the
Washington Wizards. Whoopie.
Life and times have taught me to appreciate the intangibles;
which, in this lifestyle, are tangible, indeed.
>I'd wager that if every fat sub where to be overlooked,
>at all times - that there would be allot less fat people into the scene,
_Submissiveness_ is beautiful to me. About ten years ago, I
stopped being tweny years older than you, pimple boy. If you're lucky
enough to grow up, you'll eventually realize that bodies are canvas;
techniques are paints; souls are art.
V/R
Jubal
Karl Kleinpaste
"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> Maybe those that are so insecure as to flame a perfectly innocent inquiry
No inquiry is anywhere near "perfectly innocent" when it operates from
the fundamental philosophical viewpoint of (by your own statistical
[if bogus] claim) telling 80% that they're offensive to you.
Most of the rest of us are doing just fine -- what's YOUR problem?
> By the way - this was a survey for Doms to reply to!
I'm dom, but I won't dignify the content of the original survey with a
response. It was moronic, arrogant, hypercritical, intolerant, and
several other adjectives that are pointless to type here, because the
person who most needs to understand why such adjectives are offered,
you, are apparently in no condition to understand the underlying issue
at hand.
Fuck off.
--karl,
owner of
francine
Curious1
WV Wench wrote in message
<199804092209...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>>From: "Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net>
>
>>I am really curious as to why there are so many overweight and downright
>>obese people into the scene?
> I am more curious as to how such an egotistical, insensitive, shallow,
>rude man could actually manage to sustain a healthy and fulfilling
long-term
>D/s relationship. Oh, that's right -- we don't know that you have.
Not egotistical, just proud of the maintenance I do to keep my body in
excellent shape, for myself and my partner. Insensitive, no! Shallow, by
your definitions perhaps! As far as sustaining a healthy and fulfilling
long-term D/s relationship - I do that by rewarding my sub for making effort
at taking good care, how else?
>>percent (or less) being in excellent physical condition. I am a Dom
myself,
>>but have never (and would never) consider taking on a new sub that was
more
>>than 15lbs overweight and she would loose that in short order as my slave,
>>let me tell you. Being overweigh is unhealthy and (to those of us Masters
>>that work very hard to keep our own weigh within 5 pounds of ideal) -
>>downright disgusting.
> You have every right to choose whatever partner you feel most
comfortable
>with - more power to you - do what works for you. But how dare you post
such
>an insulting and rude message here? Does it make you feel good to put
other
>people down? Does it give you some kind of thrill? Does it bolster some
sort
>of insecurity you have within yourself?
It wasn't intended to be rude - just an inquiry! I was not doing it to put
anyone down. We are all entitled to our preferences and opinions. I can
think of better ways to get a thrill than opening myself up to a bunch of
angry flamers, don't you think? It doesn't bolster any insecurities I have
either.
>>I have been searching for a partner for over 10 months
> Hmmm I wonder why you haven't found one.
Because I have not found a "quality" one yet. You know - one capable of
contributing as much as I have to offer?
>>LOOSE THE FAT!
> I know this is picky, but at this point every word you write bugs me.
>Learn to spell this one - "L-O-S-E". (I know, I know, now that I pointed
this
>out I'm sure to make a typo).
Good eye, you're right - my mistake.
>>My question to Doms is - why don't you MAKE your subs loose their "obese"
>>status?
> And my question to you is, why do you care?
Mainly because I am sick and tired of obese women responding to my ads,
telling me they are fit! Maybe the "i" key has been switched with the "a"
key on their keyboards, or they are just dreamers, or dillusional?
>
>>It's what all Doms want - to have a sub with a beautiful physique.
> Oh I get it - you are the all-knowing great and powerful beautiful and
>physically fit "master".
Must you act so immaturely?
>
>>Just do something about it! I'd wager that if every fat sub where to be
>overlooked,
>>at all times - that there would be allot less fat people into the scene,
>>because no one that is slender and fit - wants a fat partner. That goes
for
>>both Doms looking for subs and subs looking for Doms.
> OH... so you know what doms AND subs are looking for - thank goodness
you
>happened on our happy little group here. We are so lucky that you have
>chosen to share your wisdom with us.
I know what slim, physically fit people I have talked to are looking for and
that is someone that is a complement in body type to their own, not a
contrast!
> Let me give you a little clue... and I can speak for myself and ONLY
me
>(as can you, thankyouverymuch). You know what I want? I want a partner
who
>loves and respects me, who is intelligent and funny and sweet and kind, who
>knows who I am inside and out and loves me anyway, with all my faults. I
want
>a partner who can make me laugh and make me cry, make me moan with pleasure
and
>scream with pain, who will hold me in his arms and make me feel that I am
safe
>and warm and cherished. Know what else?
Duh! Doesn't that go without saying?
>I have that. And I thank G-d for him every single day. Know what else?
>I don't care what he weighs or what he
>looks like, so long as he is happy and healthy.
> Just one more thing. Your post really pissed me off - I don't usually
>even respond to posts like this but you caught me on a bad day and pushed
those
>buttons.
Apparently! The question is why? Are you insecure about your body type
(meaning wouldn't you rather be built height/weight proportionate)?
I started out disgusted and now I just feel sorry for you. I truly
>hope that someday you will understand what love and intimacy is and find
>someone who loves you like my Master loves me.
I shall.
>>Just an opinion from some Dom with the build of a Greek God, looking for
his
>Greek Goddess.
> Oh that is GOOD! LOL!!!! You just made me snort Pepsi out my nose.
Thank you! I was a pleasure to make you laugh after pissing you off so
(which was not my intent).
SlaveInNJ
Curious1 wrote:
I know why your post has angered me so. You claim to know everything, and to
be perfect, yet you have no feelings and no compassion for people in this world
who are not exactly like you. No one is perfect, and some of us with
"imperfections" simply try harder. You, on the other hand, have angered more
people with your gibberish in one day, than any of us "imperfect" people have
angered in a lifetime.
Let us all get on with our lives, and thank our lucky stars that the "normal"
people (us) outnumber the "perfect" people (him) by a very high margin.
N.
Curious1
Alright, I have had absolutely enough of the hypocrisy going on regarding my
original post. Everyone one of you (save for a couple of decent
individuals) have thrown back as much or more fucking shit as I ever did in
my post.
The difference is - that you all did it intentionally, directing the insults
at one. I may have offended others, but I did not set out to treat another
individual like a worthless piece of shit and for having been insensitive -
I apologize? Talk about a bunch of hypocrites!
To those of you not as decent as I in your messages - I suggest that you
take a look at yourself in the mirror. At least I had the decency to not
insult any one individual. Can you say that? I didn't think so! I have at
least now apologized to the group as a whole, for my insensitivity and
inconsideration.
It will be interesting to see if any of you have the decency (or the
backbone) to apologize yourself, for the snotty, condescending and downright
fucking rude messages you have directed personally towards me! I dare you
to.
If you can do so - great! Then you are indeed as decent a person as I am,
despite my occasional short-comings (which we all have o' perfect ones). If
you can apologize - my hat's off to you and I thank you for your
consideration! Otherwise you really are worth nothing more than a piece of
shit! Are you now?
Kestrel
Curious1 <xan...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<6gjofr$c...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
> Alright, I have had absolutely enough of the hypocrisy going on regarding
my
> original post. Everyone one of you (save for a couple of decent
> individuals) have thrown back as much or more fucking shit as I ever did
in
> my post.
>
> The difference is - that you all did it intentionally, directing the
insults
> at one. I may have offended others, but I did not set out to treat
another
> individual like a worthless piece of shit and for having been insensitive
-
> I apologize? Talk about a bunch of hypocrites!
Well, I hadn't responded to this thread before but, well, I am now. I just
have to say that I find it mildly amusing and a touch pitiable that you
seem to think that by insulting a group of people as a whole, and for no
cause other than your own prejudices, you are somehow better than those who
have attacked you specifically for your presumptions and insults.
To me, a mass, unprovoked insult is *not* better or more justifiable than
an attack on a single person in rebuttal to an unprovoked attack.
You have apologized for your insult, but as far as *I* am concerned, it
rings hollow because it is coupled with another attack, this time on those
who would defend themselves and their loved ones. "Gee, I'm such a big man
so I can say that I'm sorry for punching you in the stomach but you're a
horrible person and much worse than I am because you hit me back and you
should apologize more than I should!"
Feh. (Such a wonderful word, I just had to borrow it!)
--
Kestrel
"...Never disparage the kestrel, for he is bolder for his size than even
the goshawk, brave enough to take on enemies that would make a meal of him
if they could, brave enough even to attack the human who comes too near his
nest!"
--Mercedes Lackey "The Free Bards"
CajunDancr
Oh hell... I've been lurking about here for some time now....and of all
the things to cause me to "delurk"....it *would* just have to be this...
However, I cannot let this particular discussion go by without adding my
$0.02.
Curious1 wrote in message <6gjbvu$r...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>It would seem to me that any Master would much
>more prefer a slender, fit (and in the case of female subs) a voluptuous
>body, over that of someone with the build of a small heifer!
>
>Being overweigh is unhealthy and (to those of us Masters
>that work very hard to keep our own weigh within 5 pounds of ideal) -
>downright disgusting
"any Master" ??? I think not....and thank heavens this is wrong. Especially
the part about "voluptuous" a word not associated with the slender...but
with the larger (read "full-figured" woman)
My Master happens to be a very attractive, slender, but Well-Built man...he
works out....regularly....aerobics, weights AND a punching bag...
Mmmmm...just thinking about those biceps.... :::sigh:::
He's also an artist...and AS an artist...he has an appreciation of the whole
RANGE of Female Body Types....from the Playboy centerfold, to the classical
artistic nudes drawn by Rubens and others who appreciated a voluptuous,
curvy, rounded (yes, even "FLESHY") female form....and everything
in-between. He just happens to be an ASS-Man... and loves BBWs in
particular. Lucky Me :-)
Lucky, I say again, because this man who calls himself my Master is the
first person to see the sub I am...am becoming...and can be. Without him, I
might
never have found the courage to open myself to that experience. He *is*
encouraging me to take up weight-training....not in a negative or
disparaging way...but in an attitude of incredibly positive and Loving
Support...so that I can be all I can be...smaller maybe....healthier,
yes...happier....I couldn't BE any happier right now. Here's the important
part....he liked me before I started weight training...he likes me
now....he'll like me later on. :-) Not for *what* I Am....or *what* I Look
Like....But WHO I Am....and what my SOUL looks like. :-)
<SNIPPAGE HERE>
> No one really wants an obese person on top of them,
>or under them for that matter, when the option is someone with a beautiful
>figure, be that masculine, or feminine.
Au contraire, monsieur... Some people actually Prefer the feeling of a
larger
body in the bed with them...under, over or sideways... And Beauty, Thank
the Goddess and the Universe....IS in the Eye of the Beholder....not the
"others"
who think they know what is best for the rest of us.
<SNIP, SNIP, SNIP>
>It's what all Doms want - to have a sub with a beautiful physique.
Speak for yourself, "Dom"....and let others do likewise. No harm, no
foul...and I haven't stooped to insults, you'll notice.
General Note: I haven't been lurking ALL that long....but I must say this
particular thread generated more heat in a short time than anything I've
seen recently.
Cajun -- "Touch passion when it comes your way ----- it's rare enough as it
is.
Don't walk away when it calls your name." (Marcus Cole, Babylon5)
Curious1
Kestrel wrote in message <01bd6419$6e187ae0$8cb6adce@taras>...
>Well, I hadn't responded to this thread before but, well, I am now. I just
>have to say that I find it mildly amusing and a touch pitiable that you
>seem to think that by insulting a group of people as a whole, and for no
>cause other than your own prejudices, you are somehow better than those who
>have attacked you specifically for your presumptions and insults.
I was stating my personal preference. My intent was to pose a question
(which as yet is still unanswered), not deliberately set out to insult you
or any other one person. Unfortunately, I touched upon a very sensitive
nerve by posing that question. The interesting thing is that no one has
tried to answer that question. They have ALL retailiated with rude,
inconsiderate responses, which leads me to believe that there IS no answer
that these "supposed" Doms are capable of answering. If they have any power
over their subs - you would think that they would do something about their
partners weight, since their partner doesn't seem capable of exercising to
control over their own weight. Then, maybe the slim/fat ratio would at least
be even.
So far I am discovering that the ratio is of inconsiderate assholes in this
group is even greater than those of the overweight people in the scene? Not
one has tried to answer that question without hostility! I don't recall
being hostile towards fat people per se. I said some things that would most
likely agitate someone that wasn't happy with their body and I apologized
for that. Perhaps the questions I should have posed ought to have been...
1. Why it isn't at least a 50/50 ratio of slim vs, fat people in the scene,
instead of the majority of people being fat, or out and out obese?
2. Being a Dom - would you rather have a sub with the build of beautiful
statue or a small barge? What do you think the majority of Doms would tell
you?
3. If you are truly the Master of an overweight sub and prefer that s/he had
a build of a beautiful statue, then why in the hell don't you do something
about it? You're the Master supposedly! That is supposed to be within your
control (unless it is a thyroid disorder, or some other medical reason).
Do you think there would have been any less hostility by putting it that
way? I'm not that naive. These people are apparently angry about some
other underlying issue and my post has acted as the straw on the camels back
and now they are projecting all of their frustration in life at this time,
over this issue.
>To me, a mass, unprovoked insult is *not* better or more justifiable than
>an attack on a single person in rebuttal to an unprovoked attack.
>
>You have apologized for your insult, but as far as *I* am concerned, it
>rings hollow because it is coupled with another attack, this time on those
>who would defend themselves and their loved ones. "Gee, I'm such a big man
>so I can say that I'm sorry for punching you in the stomach but you're a
>horrible person and much worse than I am because you hit me back and you
>should apologize more than I should!"
I didn't ask for anyone to apologize "more" than I. I just said that the
decent thing to do would be to apologize as I have done!
Curious1
It takes one to know one Joe!
Joe Zeff wrote in message <35306efe...@news.earthlink.net>...
>"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>It is so interesting to see how this group has responded to my inquiry!
The
>>responses have all been angry ones? Why is that?
>
>Maybe because you started off by insulting a number of the regulars,
>either by calling *them* obese, or their partners? Did you really
>expect them to thank you, or welcome you with open arms?
>
>>I did not direct my
>>response towards any individual,
>
>This is true; you were, and are, an equal-opportunity insulter.
>
>>yet every one of you has replied with some
>>snotty, condescending and personally insulting remark, instead of being
>>decent with your answer(s)!
>
>You expect us to respond decently after the way you slapped us? Don't
>be absurd!
>
>You, sirrah, do not deserve to call yourself a Dom. You are, IMHO, a
>hopelessly self-involved, deluded, clueless git. You think that,
>because *you* like something, everybody else must. You are so
>infested with One-True-Wayism that you can't even see how badly you've
>offended people. In short, you are an odious toad. *Plonk!*
>
>
>---
>Joe Zeff
> The Guy With the Sideburns
>
>If you can't play with words, what good are they?
>http://www.lasfs.org
>
Mongol
Curious1 wrote:
>
>
> I was stating my personal preference.
> They have ALL retailiated with rude,
> inconsiderate responses, which leads me to believe that there IS no answer
> that these "supposed" Doms are capable of answering. If they have any power
> over their subs - you would think that they would do something about their
> partners weight, since their partner doesn't seem capable of exercising to
> control over their own weight. Then, maybe the slim/fat ratio would at least
> be even.
>
Well, curiosity did kill the cat. Perhaps if you had ask a question
rather than demanded an answer, you might have found satifaction without
the heat. If you choose to be rude to the group, why be surprised if
the responses are less than flattering? After all, it's usually: "
something for something", no?
> So far I am discovering that the ratio is of inconsiderate assholes in this
> group is even greater than those of the overweight people in the scene? Not
> one has tried to answer that question without hostility! I don't recall
> being hostile towards fat people per se. I said some things that would most
> likely agitate someone that wasn't happy with their body and I apologized
> for that. Perhaps the questions I should have posed ought to have been...
>
Have a look in the nearest mirror, then tell us what ratio you see.
> 1. Why it isn't at least a 50/50 ratio of slim vs, fat people in the scene,
> instead of the majority of people being fat, or out and out obese?
I see, you've sampled the scene at every location, and found the above
result?? Such diligence! It must be nice to be independently wealthy,
and have the time to travel. <snicker>
> 2. Being a Dom - would you rather have a sub with the build of beautiful
> statue or a small barge? What do you think the majority of Doms would tell
> you?
What does dominance have to do with the beauty myth?? Please do tell,
oh most svelt of questioners!
> 3. If you are truly the Master of an overweight sub and prefer that s/he had
> a build of a beautiful statue, then why in the hell don't you do something
> about it? You're the Master supposedly! That is supposed to be within your
> control (unless it is a thyroid disorder, or some other medical reason).
>
If it bothers you so much; GO PLAY ELSEWHERE!! That way you'll have
all the *slim* subbies, and the rest of us can enjoy our indolence.
Fair enough? <rolls eyes>
> Do you think there would have been any less hostility by putting it that
> way? I'm not that naive.
<amused chuckles> R-E-A-L-L-Y ??
> These people are apparently angry about some
> other underlying issue and my post has acted as the straw on the camels back
> and now they are projecting all of their frustration in life at this time,
> over this issue.
>
Awwwl, "They don't like me, it must be because of something else". No
cupcake; You had the termidity to call 80% of the folks here a fat lazy
slob in so many words, and in the same breath told the other 20% that
they're losers for not doing something about it. If anyone is
frustrated here, it's you.
> I didn't ask for anyone to apologize "more" than I. I just said that the
> decent thing to do would be to apologize as I have done!
>
Hmm, let see: You distrurb the peace, then told everybody that you're
sorry that you've distrurbed their *fucking* peace, and expect an
apology. Cute; If you espouse the same attitude in meat-life, you have
my pity.
Amused,
-Mongol
Sing, ...sing to me your screams.
Curious1
Amoret wrote in message <6gjq73$jg4$1...@solaris.cc.vt.edu>...
>
>"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> writes a great deal of blather:
>
Yes, like a physically, mentally, spiritually and emotionally secure
partner.
>Some people prefer to be entertained through
>something other than visuals, or realize that it's simpler to
>find a good issue of Penthouse than a good relationship.
Perhaps so, I prefer a partner that is confident about every aspect of
herself.
>The scene as I've encountered it is not exactly abounding in delicate
>nymphets, but there's a nice variety in sizes and shapes. On the other
>hand, I'm not so...sensitive... as you appear to be, and can generally
>handle myself in the presence of people who don't interest me without
>feeling a need to post semiliterate rants to newsgroups about how the
>world fails to resemble Baywatch.
Ahh! Now who's being self-righteous? I never expected to find a majority
of "Baywatch" quality women. But I do not know of ONE, yet they are
everywhere you look in the BDSM-related newsgroups (if you've ever browsed
the pictures posted there).
>You secret is safe with me. (Sorry, Mr. Barrymore...)
Now who's being downright rude?
>I suppose one would wonder why a, ah, Master of such, ah, extensive
>experience, would still be in need of a partner; one would think you
>wouldn't have misplaced the previous ones in light of your, ah, manly
>physique and domly prowess. Guess they voted with their feet, eh?
The reason I am not with them now is that they all proved to be liars! They
were not forgiven for that, as it was a policy going into the arragements
that honesty was of the utmost importance and that if I was ever lied to -
they would be banished from my life! Just for your information :-)
>Or perhaps they are entirely aware that many men have, shall we say,
>an inflated view of their own attractiveness, and are appropriately
>compensating for either this visual delusion or the evident personality
>defects that accompany it.
What may I ask makes you so good? Don't be so presumptuous. It isn't
becoming a of lady!
>You really *ought* to explore more options. Say, sex standing up, or
>those nifty positions where one partner is roughly perpendicular to
>the other. (I commend to you a small furnishing known as an ottoman.
>Everyone should have one.) That way you can attain variety and still
>keep the same partner. Astonishing, eh?
My partner would not be permitted to be obese! And I would rather have
someone I can wrap my body around (as opposed to finding solutions for
having to work around my partner).
>I'd rather have them loose their fantasies, or their fears, or their
>pens or fingers to write long and interesting letters.
What fantasies? That there is another person in the world that's into BDSM,
that is in excellent physical condition? What fears? The only fear I
really have is that I will not find another person capable of giving as much
as I have to offer in love and in life? You don't know a thing about me -
show keep your snotty comments to yourself regarding that last statement.
Suffice it to say - I have very high expectations, but I do not ask anything
I cannot and would not offer myself. By the way - you'd rather them lose
their fingers? You are a sick woman and in need of professional help! Any
sane person will tell you that.
>Perhaps you should do some deeper reading; say, Thorne Smith.
Is that your professional recommendation doctor?
>Otherwise, I'm afraid you just don't meet my standards, and the
>problem with you is not something that can be "loosed".
>
>Amoret
>amo...@magenta.com
>
>(who expects a response calling her a fat, unfulfilled submissive...)
>(heh)
Sorry to disappoint you!
gregory sears
I totally agree with all the people who slammed the egotistical ass.
Shunyata wrote in message <352D5C...@pclinkgag.com>...
>Spamblocking measures are in effect. To reply to this post
>by e-mail, you'll need to remove my gag.
>
> Curious1 wrote a bunch of revolting crap, concluding with:
>
> >Just an opinion from some Dom with the build of
> >a Greek God, looking for his Greek Goddess.
>
Curious1
Another insult, from another poor slave! Did your Master put you up to that
gregory? I do not tire of battle easily! I suggest that you stop while
we're even.
gregory sears wrote in message <6gjt82$ahs$1...@hecate.umd.edu>...
Curious1
Thank you Fnord! That must be it.
Fnord Prefect Fnord (the little blue guy) wrote in message
<6gjr14$d...@harvee.billerica.ma.us>...
>
>A Silly Person wrote:
>
>: > >My question to Doms is - why don't you MAKE your subs loose their
"obese"
>: > >status?
>
>
>To keep the subs safe from you? Maybe there are lots of "obese" subs
>*twirling * and *frolicing* for joy now that they know you won't
>notice them.
Kestrel
>
> Kestrel wrote in message <01bd6419$6e187ae0$8cb6adce@taras>...
>
> >Well, I hadn't responded to this thread before but, well, I am now. I
just
> >have to say that I find it mildly amusing and a touch pitiable that you
> >seem to think that by insulting a group of people as a whole, and for no
> >cause other than your own prejudices, you are somehow better than those
who
> >have attacked you specifically for your presumptions and insults.
>
> I was stating my personal preference. My intent was to pose a question
> (which as yet is still unanswered), not deliberately set out to insult
you
> or any other one person. Unfortunately, I touched upon a very sensitive
> nerve by posing that question.
I think that the nerve is sensitive because you seem to reflect a prejudice
that is uninformed and unfortunately very prevalent in the US, not just in
the BDSM community and not just on this ng.
<snip>
> I said some things that would most
> likely agitate someone that wasn't happy with their body and I apologized
> for that.
Well, I think that the way that you posed your survey was such that it was
likely to agitate just about everybody here, not just those who are not
happy with their bodies.
It seems to me that you really did not intend this survey to be so
inflammatory so I will try to answer some of this with my own opinions and
observations.
> Perhaps the questions I should have posed ought to have been...
>
> 1. Why it isn't at least a 50/50 ratio of slim vs, fat people in the
scene,
> instead of the majority of people being fat, or out and out obese?
Probably because that isn't the ratio in the US, in or out of the scene. A
majority of people in the US (don't know stats for other countries) are
heavier than the so-called ideal. However, that "ideal" often isn't. Some
people are simply not built to conform to that "ideal". And I'm not talking
about hereditary tendencies toward weight problems.
For example, me. If I starved myself (and that's what it would take) I
*might* be able to force myself into the "ideal". However, I would be
dangerously unhealthy. At my very healthiest (a point I am working towards
again), I was not the generally accepted H/WP. However, my doctor told me
that I shouldn't be due to my body type. I was in excellent health and had
little body fat. However, at that time, I was very unhappy with my body
because my upper arms were about the same size as some girls' thighs. (OK,
maybe I'm exaggerating a little! But it sure felt that way.)
Now, I am working out and have changed my diet, not because I'm "fat" but
because I don't feel healthy. But I have recently seen people who hadn't
seen me since the days I was in such great shape and they told me they
didn't notice a difference in the way I look, other than the fact that I
look a lot happier now.
> 2. Being a Dom - would you rather have a sub with the build of beautiful
> statue or a small barge? What do you think the majority of Doms would
tell
> you?
What about those Doms who consider a sub who is, as you say, "a small
barge" to be beautiful? I think that this is where you insulted a lot of
people here. Not everyone's perception of beauty is the same. Some men are
attracted to the women who are very slim, others find that look physically
repulsive (or are at least afraid of breaking them! *grin*). The reverse is
true. Some men are attracted to women with some meat on their bones, other
men think that the same women are "fat".
The thing is, you approached this subject as though your version of beauty
was the only one. If you read this group much, you may notice that one of
the biggest crimes here is Your-kink-is-not-OKism (YKINOKism) or
One-True-Wayism (OTWism). And this is how you came across in your survey.
You seem to be saying that anyone who didn't agree with your version of
beauty was wrong.
> 3. If you are truly the Master of an overweight sub and prefer that s/he
had
> a build of a beautiful statue, then why in the hell don't you do
something
> about it? You're the Master supposedly! That is supposed to be within
your
> control (unless it is a thyroid disorder, or some other medical reason).
Here is another place where you seem to be suffering from OTWism. Not
everybody has the same kind of D/s relationship. There are many ways to do
what we do. Personally, if a sub were happy with his/her body the way that
it was, why would a Dom force him/her to change it to something s/he were
unhappy with? To me, the whole point is for both partners to be happy.
>
> Do you think there would have been any less hostility by putting it that
> way?
Perhaps a little, but not much less.
> I'm not that naive. These people are apparently angry about some
> other underlying issue and my post has acted as the straw on the camels
back
> and now they are projecting all of their frustration in life at this
time,
> over this issue.
I think that the underlying issue is that you came across with heavy
OTWism. People here have had to deal with that a lot, so perhaps their
patience has worn thin. *shrug* I don't blame them. I don't think anyone
likes to be told that when they are doing something that makes them happy,
they're doing it wrong or are wrong for wanting it.
>
> >To me, a mass, unprovoked insult is *not* better or more justifiable
than
> >an attack on a single person in rebuttal to an unprovoked attack.
> >
> >You have apologized for your insult, but as far as *I* am concerned, it
> >rings hollow because it is coupled with another attack, this time on
those
> >who would defend themselves and their loved ones. "Gee, I'm such a big
man
> >so I can say that I'm sorry for punching you in the stomach but you're a
> >horrible person and much worse than I am because you hit me back and you
> >should apologize more than I should!"
>
> I didn't ask for anyone to apologize "more" than I. I just said that the
> decent thing to do would be to apologize as I have done!
>
Hmmm...I knew that sentence structure was going to be a bit unclear!
*sheepish smile* What I meant was that it seemed to me that you felt that
everyone who had responded to your post had more cause to apologize than
you, not that they should apologize more. *smile* Perhaps I was wrong in
that perception and if so, I apologize. *smile*
Curious1
Thank you Kestrel! I know I was wrong and I have apologized. I just hope
that the others can drop it now that I have realized my mistake.
Otherwise - I will wear them down, one at a time, until they no longer give
a shit and will be happy just to never hear another word from me. I am an
unbeatable adversary in war (historically) and I have all of the energy in
the world to do battle. Again - thanks for answering my question, in a
decent manner, I greatly appreciate it!
Kestrel wrote in message <01bd6423$b7e1bf60$8cb6adce@taras>...
le...@omit.these.four.words.heathen.com
"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>It is so interesting to see how this group has responded to my inquiry! The
>responses have all been angry ones? Why is that? I did not direct my
>response towards any individual, yet every one of you has replied with some
>snotty, condescending and personally insulting remark, instead of being
>decent with your answer(s)!
I would suggest that, if your results are so skewed in one direction that
you have become displeased with your outcome, that your methodolgy might be
faulty. After all, if everyone says you're an ass, maybe you should
think about being fitted with a saddle, eh?
>Are you all so miserable that you feel justified
>by being so rude in your responses. If it does make you feel better to stage
>a personal affront towards a general inquiry, which was not directed at any
>one individual - then all I can say is that I'm surprised anyone finds you
>worthy of their time! To those of you that have behaved in such an immature
>manner - take a look at yourself and ask yourself why my original inquiry
>regarding obesity has angered you so!
Your query used emotionally loaded words and phrases. It is unreasonable to
think that people would not be moved by them.
If you don't like what people said, well, that's not their fault, nor their
problem, nor their responsibility. You are responsible for your results.
This display of petulant venom is most enlightening with
regard to your own level of maturity and character.
My recommendation is that you work on the insides, now, "Adonis". It would
appear to be high time.
Leona Joy
who doesn't need to be a Bodhisatva to see that you might profit from
some nourishment and exercise for your social skills and emotional
awareness/empathy. That you seemingly do not know why people are
acting so hostile to you is sad, really. And obvious to the most of
the rest of us, as well. Your continued rants only strengthen these
opinions of your lack of adequate clues.
--
The Lioness who kneels.
le...@omit.these.four.words.heathen.com
"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>are (judging from the responses thus far). By the way - this was a survey
>for Doms to reply to!
You get what you get, pookie.
I personally am of the opinion that. if slender women get you off, go for it.
I am also of the opinion that those who presume to judge others on the
basis of their own physical preferences (when it comes to appearance
specifically) limit their selection pool considerably. For example, I
insist on a certain level of good grooming and deportment in the
people with whom I associate. This cuts out a large number of men for
whom details of presentation mean much less to them than to
me. *shrug* It's a style thing.
I believe it is the height of bad manners to presume to tell others how
to conduct their lives and order their preferences. This is the lack
of social grace and basic respect that soured me on what you had to say.
Simply put, it doesn't *matter* that you look like Adonis if you act
like an asshole. Get a clue, here, NO ONE can see you here. No one
cares if you're gorgeous or whether you look like Marty Feldman. What
appearances matter here are the ones that are made manifest by the
tone and content of your posts.
Your opinion of fat people is none of our business. No one asked you for
your opinion of what works for *them*, did they? Then your speculation
on that account is as unwelcome as it was unsolicited.
I found your post to be rather deliberately rude and provocative, your
unsolicited censure and criticisms of those who you do not know
boorish in the extreme.
Sometimes the Beast looks like a prince, instead of the other way
around, it seems. I suggest a remedial course in basic social
interactions.
Feh.
Leona Joy
did your mother teach you these rude manners, or did you come up with this
precious puerile behavior all by yourself?
Curious1
MissJudi wrote in message <352d7a30...@news.mastnet.net>...
>"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>It is so interesting to see how this group has responded to my inquiry!
The
>>responses have all been angry ones? Why is that? I did not direct my
>>response towards any individual, yet every one of you has replied with
some
>>snotty, condescending and personally insulting remark, instead of being
>>decent with your answer(s)!
>
>1) It's called fighting fire with fire. Your post was obnoxious at
>best, downright trollish as worst. If you can't see that then you're
>much farther from the "decent" person you claim to be and probably
>could do with a little self-examination.
I realize that!
>2) You seem to think that because you didn't insult one particular
>person, it's ok... well, no, you didn't single any one specific person
>out and slam them... you insulted a whole *mess* of people, and
>frankly, you should be willing to take what you get for it. With
>GRACE.
I've been managing alright.
>3) You called your post a "survey"... and then you were shocked when
>you got responses?? Did you really expect that every single person who
>read your letter would react with attaboys and pats on the back?
No! But I didn't expect them all to be flames either. If it makes you
happy - not one attaboy has been issued and I never expected that. What I
did expect was people to not be so rude. I wasn't as rude as they have
consistently been in my post! Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for
the rest of the group. I won't be coming back to this group again (after
what I've seen of the "quality" of people here) after I manage to tire them
of battle and put out the flames.
>>Are you all so miserable that you feel justified
>>by being so rude in your responses.
>
>Akem's razor... the most likely explanations to a phenomena is
>probably the correct explanation. In other words, is it more likely
>that we are *all* "so miserable"? Or is it more likely that your
>original post was so unpleasant as to draw large volleys of fire?
Apparently so, yes!
>>If it does make you feel better to stage
>>a personal affront towards a general inquiry
>
>Your original post was a personal affront to many people here, is that
>so impossible to believe and *accept*?
Not at all. But I am beginning to think that not only are they all
inconsiderate assholes for not dropping the subject after my apology, but
they they are all fat as well (as not one of them has said that they prefer
slim over fatness any day and all have jumped to the defense of obesity and
have tried to justify it in any way possible).
>>- then all I can say is that I'm surprised anyone finds you
>>worthy of their time! To those of you that have behaved in such an
immature
>>manner -
>
>I rather think it is your own outrageously narrow views of people that
>is immature.
Fair enough! You (as I) are entitled to our opinions.
>>take a look at yourself and ask yourself why my original inquiry
>>regarding obesity has angered you so!
>
>It was offensive. I, again, ask you to take a long hard look at
>*yourself*.
Oh I have alright! But I still don't get why the majority is so overweight?
It's like they don't even care about it! I've never known a fat person yet
that wouldn't rather be skinny, or a skinny person that wouldn't rather have
their partner lose extra weight and none of the fat people I've known do a
damn thing about their condition. I'll never understand that.
>And about that apology. Let's be honest here, it wasn't really an
>apology, was it? It was more like a taunt: "Apologize to me or you're
>an asshole." Don't expect to find too many people on their knees.
At least I apologized. To those that can't - well, they really are assholes
aren't they? At least I have admitted my indecency, my mistakes and
acknowledged my shortcomings. If they can't do the same - doesn't that seem
hypocritical, or at least that they are not as decent of a person after all?
I'd say so!
pssn8Dom
Amoret <amo...@magenta.com (Amoret)> succinctly rebuts:
>
<snippage of Curious1's drivel with Amoret's point by point replies>
> >I have been searching for a partner for over 10 months
> >now and only 2 out of 40+ contenders have been built like a pig, even though
>
> I suppose one would wonder why a, ah, Master of such, ah, extensive
> experience, would still be in need of a partner; one would think you
> wouldn't have misplaced the previous ones in light of your, ah, manly
> physique and domly prowess. Guess they voted with their feet, eh?
>
> >my ads always mention that I am looking for someone physically fit. I think
> >these women suffer from the same thing us guys do - they see the words "Dom,
> >Male, Attractive and Physically Fit" and wanting a Master like that - become
> >"blind" to the rest of the criteria and go ahead and respond to someone with
> >a gorgeous figure. Why would they do that when they can't even take care for
>
> Or perhaps they are entirely aware that many men have, shall we say,
> an inflated view of their own attractiveness, and are appropriately
> compensating for either this visual delusion or the evident personality
> defects that accompany it. ^^^^^^^^^^^
> ^^^^^^^
Umm ... Amoret, I think we need to be sure he has a personality before
we
suggest that it's deffective. :)
<more snippage as above>
> >My question to Doms is - why don't you MAKE your subs loose their "obese"
> >status?
>
> I'd rather have them loose their fantasies, or their fears, or their
> pens or fingers to write long and interesting letters.
>
> >It's what all Doms want - to have a sub with a beautiful physique. Just do
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Insufficient data, Will Robinson. Correct survey sample to n>1.
>
<virtual headshaking here> I wish he'd speak for himself! As a Dom, I
want a sub who's smart, sassy, willing to offer herself to me
absolutely yet always has an opinion of her own. A sense of humour is
a big plus.
I've had women and women subs who cover the entire range of physiques.
And there is nothing sexier about a woman or a sub or any person than
their minds and personalities. As an ex-artist, I always find something
sensual, sexy, attractive or fascinating about a woman's appearance.
But always, the first attraction is what kind mind / personality she
has.
--
,/^\'-~-`/^\, real rply 2: guyc (@) bellatlantic.net
{(3) (E)} ======================================
,(- __\ /__ -), | Lions, Tigers and Bears! Oh my!! |
,{ =*.; ;.*= }, | All opinions expressed are my own. |
{ / \ | / \ ), | What you may have read is not |
` / / | \ \ } | necessarily what I mean. Typos are |
` / -~~(.,Y,.)~~- \ } | a fact of life. I won't complain |
{ / (^"^) \ }' | about yours if you don't complain |
`{, / ~ \ ,}' | about mine. |
\`{\_/ \_/}'/ | - Guy - |
>_ _`\,,/|\,,/'_ _< ======================================
`(}(}(} `~-~' {){){)' -Nathan Shores-
Curious1
To those I have offended - please accept my most sincere apology for having
insulted anyone. What's been done has been done and has now been learned
from. Let's leave it at that and stop wasting each others time with
hostility and resentment. Life is too short!
Sincerely,
Curious1
pssn8Dom
Some help needed. :-)
I looked in Dejanews for the original post that started this thread.
However, I couldn't find it. Am I correct in assuming that the post was
cancelled? I was so offended by the bits and pieces of the this person's
post that I did see, that I was curious to see the actual post.
Kestrel
Copy sent via email.
--
Kestrel
"...Never disparage the kestrel, for he is bolder for his size than even
the goshawk, brave enough to take on enemies that would make a meal of him
if they could, brave enough even to attack the human who comes too near his
nest!"
--Mercedes Lackey "The Free Bards"
pssn8Dom <guyc.sp...@bellatlantic.met> wrote in article
<352D8B94...@bellatlantic.met>...
Shunyata
The only thing worse than reading Curious1's bullshit is getting
spam in my mailbox. Help solve one of those problems by removing
my gag before replying to me.
Curious1 wrote, in response to Gregory Sears:
> Another insult, from another poor slave! Did your
>Master put you up to that gregory? I do not tire of
>battle easily! I suggest that you stop while we're even.
"Even"? Who's "even", you simple-minded sack of shit? You may not
tire of battle easily (what a noble phrase - you must watch a lot of
PBS), but you aren't even *in* this fight. The fact that you're too
fucking ignorant to realize that speaks volumes about your stupidity.
First, you alienate countless thousands of people all over the world
by cruelly ridiculing people who don't meet your standards of physical
perfection. And then, evidently, you sit back and say, "Hmm. That might
not make me look feebleminded enough. How can I demonstrate it even
more clearly? Blatant and repeated spelling errors? No, I did that in
my first post. I know! I'll ridicule Gregory on the grounds that he's
submissive! That's the perfect strategy for a group that is read almost
exclusively by people who either are submissive or love people who
are!"
Jesus, it makes me wonder if you've spent your whole life in an
institution. It's hard to believe that anyone as fucking simpleminded
as you could possibly get through an entire day without sticking his
tongue in a light socket to determine whether the power's on. You must
be cared for and hand fed by some higher intelligence (yeah, I know,
that would be a long list) just to insure that you don't try to eat
your Gerber's by squirting it up your nose with a turkey baster.
This "perfect body" of yours; did you save the receipt? I think you
have a refund coming, because they left out the two most important
parts - the brain, of course, is the most obvious one... but they
also forgot to give you a functional heart.
How could you not see how hurtful your words are, when you compare
human beings to "heifers" simply because they do not look the way
you've decided they ought to look? How could you not see how deeply
such a thing would cut people?
I feel so sorry for you - you'll never realize what you're cutting
yourself off from. Like you, I have a very athletic body. Like you, I
am proud of it, because I have worked very hard to trim that body down
and harden it up. Like you, I derive comfort and satisfaction from
knowing that one of the principle rewards that I get from this hard
work is a superb level of physical fitness - I'm 40 years old, and I
know very few men half my age who are as healthy as I am. That hour or
two I spend at the gym every day is an investment that should pay off
in years of more comfortable living in my upcoming dottage.
But unlike you, I do not need to look at the body of a lover and see
that same level of perfection reflected back at me. Yes, to be honest,
I realize that I am probably less attracted, by and large, to heavy
women than to thin women, but I would never *dream* of rejecting a
woman simply because she is not as trim as I am. In fact, Midnight
Writer were having a conversation on this very subject a month ago at
a TIES munch, and afterwards I continued the discussion with Cybele as
she gave me a ride home. I remember telling her that if I could pick
the "Top Ten" most attractive women at the gym I go to, the ten women
with whom I would most like to have a date, at least six of them were
overweight - if not *very* overweight. But it would do me no good to
ask any of those six utterly gorgeous women for a date - they're all
married, to very fortunate men; men with far more class than you.
Curious1
May I suggest that you read My Sincerest Apology? I made a critical error
in judgment. I have apologized for it! Any further flaming (delivered as a
personal insult) will be considered downright abuse and will be immediately
retaliated against! I wish this horrible waste of energy to stop! The
lesson has been learned!
pssn8Dom wrote in message <352D8B94...@bellatlantic.met>...
>Some help needed. :-)
>
>I looked in Dejanews for the original post that started this thread.
>However, I couldn't find it. Am I correct in assuming that the post was
>cancelled? I was so offended by the bits and pieces of the this person's
>post that I did see, that I was curious to see the actual post.
>
cou...@writeme.com
In article <6gjigt$5...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
.
> It's easy to see why so many are obese - no one cares enough about
> themselves to do anything about it! They are all wandering around with the
> dillusion that being fat is perfectly healthy and believing they're all fit
> and wonderful. I can tell you that the people in this country are the
> fattest people on the planet (on average). Go to another country, you'll
> see! No wonder everyone is so miserable in this country - most of them hate
> their body types! I am proud of mine and work very hard to keep it fit
> (meaning within 5 lbs. of my ideal weight, according to any doctor) Maybe
> those that are so insecure as to flame a perfectly innocent inquiry as to
> why there is such a disproportionate amount of fat people in this country
> ought to lose the weigh, so they can be much happier than they apparently
> are (judging from the responses thus far). By the way - this was a survey
> for Doms to reply to!
>
*ahem* - Let me try the tone that you used about obesity on your spelling and
sentence structure and see if you like it - a piece I call:
Dillusion Pickles
It's easy to see why so many are effectively dyslexic - no one cares enough
about grammar to do anything about it. They are all wandering around with the
delusion that looking uneducated is perfectly alright, believing themselves
eloquent and wonderful. I can tell you that the people in this country are, on
average, the worst spellers on the planet. No wonder everyone is so miserable
here - most of them hate their own sentence structures and love exclamations
at the ends of their sentences! I am proud of my writing and work very hard to
keep it elegant, (occasionally falling for simple meta effects such as the
gratuitous exclamation above.) Someone so insecure as to violently attack the
overweight might want to learn some basic human decency, and brush up on his
writing skills instead of putting all his energy into his appearance. Then,
maybe, he can become much smarter than he obviously is (judging from his posts
thus far). By the way - this was a vicious, narcissistic and elitist troll.
CountV
obviously bored, to be doing this...
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Curious1
That one can use for this group? I have apologized, twice now! I wish for
the immature, childish name-calling to stop. Aren't we all adults here? The
lesson has been learned.
Janet W. Hardy
Curious1 wrote:
>
> Oh I have alright! But I still don't get why the majority is so overweight?
> It's like they don't even care about it!
Bingo.
I've never known a fat person yet
> that wouldn't rather be skinny...
Now you do. My preference would be to be medium-sized, which for me
still puts me way off the charts (at my slimmest I still weighed over 20
lbs. more than the silly charts claim I should, and I looked gaunt).
I will point out here that my personal trainer is 5'4" and 160 lbs.,
which makes her 30-40 lbs. heavier than the charts state she should be.
She will be leaving in a couple of months to compete internationally as
a bodybuilder in the Gay Games in Amsterdam. Some heifer, eh?
Wanna ask me if I'd rather be "skinny" than look like that?
or a skinny person that wouldn't rather have
> their partner lose extra weight...
Don't get around much, do you? I have personally gone out with at least
two slim to average-sized men who considered me *much* too small -- at
the time I weighed around 175 -- to be genuinely sexy.
and none of the fat people I've known do a
> damn thing about their condition. I'll never understand that.
Silly us. We choose to eat for pleasure and health, exercise moderately,
and let our bodies look like whatever they want to look like when we do
so. The alternative, of course, would be to starve ourselves into misery
so that we can attract Adonises like you. Honey, you make me feel like
eating *more*. A lot more.
Verdant
---------------------------------------------------------------------
BITCH GODDESS: The Spiritual Path of the Dominant Woman,Califia/Campbell
Greenery Press toll-free 888/944-4434 http://www.bigrock.com/~greenery
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Janet W. Hardy
Curious1 wrote:
> I was stating my personal preference. My intent was to pose a question
> (which as yet is still unanswered), not deliberately set out to insult you
> or any other one person.
When you use words like "heifers" and "pigs" in referring to women, your
odds of getting a polite response from anyone here -- slim or heavy,
male or female -- diminish to sub-zero.
OK, so here's your response: I *don't* prefer slim subs (or doms) to
heavy ones. If I got to design my own partner to my own specs, I'd pick
someone who weighs 30-50 lbs. more than the medical charts say s/he
should, and in whom at least some of that extra weight is muscle. Skinny
people scare me a bit, particularly when I top them -- there's a part of
me that always feels like I'm going to break them. However, physical
appearance is way way *way* down near the bottom of my list of partner
selection criteria, and if someone fits my other criteria I don't much
care what size s/he is.
And any dom/me who made my relationship with him or her conditional upon
my weight loss would have one large empty space in their bed where I
used to be. I don't go into relationships with people who want to change
me.
cou...@writeme.com
In article <6gjbvu$r...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> I am really curious as to why there are so many overweight and downright
> obese people into the scene? It would seem to me that any Master would much
> more prefer a slender, fit (and in the case of female subs) a voluptuous
Some do, some don't - what's the big deal? Some prefer heavier women, some
petite women, some like blondes, some redheads. Get a grip, buddy.
>
> I have been in the scene - off and on - for 20 years and it seems that the
> ratio of downright fat people is always around 80% / 20%, with only twenty
> percent (or less) being in excellent physical condition.
Weird sentence structure - a ratio has to be 'of /something/ to /something
else/' - maybe you should spend some more time learning to write, rather than
pumping iron. I'd much rather have an overweight sub who was well-read and
intelligent, than one who is fit and stupid. If it were a big deal to me, I *
would* make her lose that weight (rather than loose it, mind you).
> I am a Dom myself,
Most likely not a good one. Why? See next line.
> but have never (and would never) consider taking on a new sub that was more
> than 15lbs overweight and she would loose that in short order as my slave,
> let me tell you. Being overweigh is unhealthy and (to those of us Masters
> that work very hard to keep our own weigh within 5 pounds of ideal) -
> downright disgusting.
If that is your reaction - your loss. Looking past the surface is a basic
aspect of empathy - and a Dominant without empathy is rarely very good, and
potentially dangerous.
> I have been searching for a partner for over 10 months
> now and only 2 out of 40+ contenders have been built like a pig, even though
> my ads always mention that I am looking for someone physically fit.
Only 2 out of more than forty? What are you whining about then? Or did your
brain just trip you up again?
> I think
> these women suffer from the same thing us guys do
I think few women suffer from what you do - women are usually blessed with a
quality called 'sensitivity'. Some men have it too.
> - they see the words "Dom,
> Male, Attractive and Physically Fit" and wanting a Master like that - become
> "blind" to the rest of the criteria and go ahead and respond to someone with
> a gorgeous figure. Why would they do that when they can't even take care for
> their own.
Why would you avoid a question mark at the end of an inquring phrase? Oh, yeah
- I forgot. Been too busy toning that tummy to delve into the 'finer points'
of grammar.
> I know this happens with "Sub, Fem, Attractive and Fit" women,
> as far as getting some fat guy sending her his picture. What is wrong with
> people? LOOSE THE FAT!
Lose the 'O'.
> No one really wants an obese person on top of them,
> or under them for that matter, when the option is someone with a beautiful
> figure, be that masculine, or feminine.
To each his own, Xanthor. A lot of people are attracted by larger women or
men. You might as well say "No one really wants a brunette on top of them..."
> My question to Doms is - why don't you MAKE your subs loose their "obese"
> status?
Basically, they all do it to bug you, actually.
> It's what all Doms want - to have a sub with a beautiful physique.
Oh, ok - as long as she's 'beautiful' according to your standards (and what is
that? Pamela Anderson? Marylin Monroe? Jayne Mansfield? Kate Moss?) then she
can be a crap submissive I suppose?
> Just do
> something about it!
And anyone who thought it that important surely would.
> I'd wager that if every fat sub where to be overlooked,
> at all times
Every fat sub where?
> - that there would be allot less fat people into the scene,
> because no one that is slender and fit - wants a fat partner.
Patently wrong - I see it all the time.
> That goes for
> both Doms looking for subs and subs looking for Doms. Just an opinion from
> some Dom with the build of a Greek God, looking for his Greek Goddess.
Here's a tip: as long as you are ShallowDom you will have to continue your
search for a long time. Most of the women in the scene that I have met are
complex, intelligent, thinking and feeling creatures - clearly something you
could not handle - let alone control.
CountV
at his ideal weight - with a slim slave - but more likely to ogle an
'overweight' woman than an 'underweight' one
Darla
Curious1 wrote:
> I was stating my personal preference.
No. Sorry. Had you simply stated a personal preference (though I
cannot imagine why you'd think anyone else would care) there would not
have been this firestorm of reaction.
I happen to believe that we are wired for body-type preference in the
same way we are wired for bdsm, and no one ought to be castigated for
that. If overweight women do not arouse you *shrug* fine. That is
how you are wired. Presumably, you cannot, and cannot imagine wanting
to, change.
But you _did_ presume (and, I believe, it was a deliberate troll) to
extrapolate your preferences to the set of all Doms. In so doing, you
insulted those Doms who are wired in a different way, whose body-type
preferences vary from yours. Of course they reacted passionately!
Your tone of amazement, disgust, and condescension challenged them at
a level _they_ cannot, and cannot imagine wanting to, change.
And of course you hurt and insulted every woman whose body doesn't
meet your criteria for arousal with your deliberately cruel
characterizations ("small barge" and "pig" spring to mind) and your
use of patently ignorant stereotypes.
You cannot understand how these Doms can tolerate fat women. Hmm.
Think of a food you loathe. Liver? Okra? Black jelly beans? Now
surely you are aware that thousands of people eat these foods daily,
and love them. Crave them, even. And I'll bet you cannot _understand_
how they can tolerate them!
Wiring. And the fact that you would presume to lecture to others about
their hard-wired preferences strikes people as the height of
arrogance.
Look, you're wired for slim women. Fine. Find one. Enjoy her. But
not everyone is wired that way. In the spirit of Easter weekend, just
accept that on faith.
And no one is asking you to assess the demographic make-up of "the
scene," nor is anyone truly interested in lectures from you about how
they ought or ought not to conduct their lives, their health, or their
personal realtionships.
And please, watch the stereotyping. Repeating them marks you as
ignorant, and perhaps you're simply ill-informed. While obesity in
general is linked to many health issues, it is also the case that
every person's metabolic health profile is as individual as a
fingerprint.
Oh--- and further posts protesting "But no one actually _answered_ my
question" or re-stating "I just really want to know why there are so
many fat chyx in the scene" will put the final "troll" stamp on this
unhappy series. Let's just say "no," shall we?
Darla
Arrow Blue
Curious1 wrote:
> At least I apologized. To those that can't - well, they really are assholes
> aren't they? At least I have admitted my indecency, my mistakes and
> acknowledged my shortcomings. If they can't do the same - doesn't that seem
> hypocritical, or at least that they are not as decent of a person after all?
> I'd say so!
I read your apology post, and I didn't see anything in it that sounded
like an apology.
Just what do you think you did wrong? What exactly are your shortcomings
that you admitted to?
You have to list those and then sound sincerely contrite for it to be
an apology.
Arrow
azurite
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:56:04 -0700, "Curious1"
<xan...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>It is so interesting to see how this group has responded to my inquiry! The
>responses have all been angry ones? Why is that?
Maybe it was because in your original post you said :
>It's what all Doms want - to have a sub with a beautiful physique.
Telling other people what they want is considered rude (not to mention
insulting and incredibly arrogant!).
I did not direct my
>response towards any individual, yet every one of you has replied with some
>snotty, condescending and personally insulting remark, instead of being
>decent with your answer(s)! Are you all so miserable that you feel justified
>by being so rude in your responses.
Probably because you were rude in the first place, how can you expect
anything else in return?
If it does make you feel better to stage
>a personal affront towards a general inquiry, which was not directed at any
>one individual - then all I can say is that I'm surprised anyone finds you
>worthy of their time! To those of you that have behaved in such an immature
>manner - take a look at yourself and ask yourself why my original inquiry
>regarding obesity has angered you so!
>
>
Could be because your *inquiry* was more of an attack on people that
do not fit your idea of fit. It didn't anger me (i was laughing too
hard to be angered) but i still think you are an arrogant asshole.
azurite
CybeleX
>From: "Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net>
>
>It is so interesting to see how this group has responded to my inquiry! The
>response towards any individual, yet every one of you has replied with some
>snotty, condescending and personally insulting remark, instead of being
>decent with your answer(s)!
Perhaps you need to read your original post just one more time and analyze what
YOU wrote. You started this thread off with your own snotty, condescending
insulting remarks and weren't one bit decent about what you said about a group
of individuals about whom you obviously have no respect for or understanding
of.
When you start a conversation with an arrogant and condescending tone, you'll
find that you get the same thing in return. Deal!
Cybele
azurite
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:17:00 -0700, "Curious1"
<xan...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Alright, I have had absolutely enough of the hypocrisy going on regarding my
>original post. Everyone one of you (save for a couple of decent
>individuals) have thrown back as much or more fucking shit as I ever did in
>my post.
>
>The difference is - that you all did it intentionally, directing the insults
>at one. I may have offended others, but I did not set out to treat another
>individual like a worthless piece of shit and for having been insensitive -
>I apologize? Talk about a bunch of hypocrites!
>
>To those of you not as decent as I in your messages - I suggest that you
>take a look at yourself in the mirror. At least I had the decency to not
>insult any one individual.
No, you merely insulted 80% of the people here (according to your own
statistics)
Can you say that? I didn't think so! I have at
>least now apologized to the group as a whole, for my insensitivity and
>inconsideration.
>
>It will be interesting to see if any of you have the decency (or the
>backbone) to apologize yourself, for the snotty, condescending and downright
>fucking rude messages you have directed personally towards me! I dare you
>to.
>
>If you can do so - great! Then you are indeed as decent a person as I am,
>despite my occasional short-comings (which we all have o' perfect ones). If
>you can apologize - my hat's off to you and I thank you for your
>consideration! Otherwise you really are worth nothing more than a piece of
>shit! Are you now?
>
>
This is just as offensive as the rest of your posts in this thread.
Get a clue and grow up!
azurite
>
Amoret
"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> writes a great deal of blather:
>I am really curious as to why there are so many overweight and downright
>obese people into the scene? It would seem to me that any Master would much
>more prefer a slender, fit (and in the case of female subs) a voluptuous
>body, over that of someone with the build of a small heifer!
I suppose that would depend on whether one prioritizes looks or
brains/personality. Some people prefer to be entertained through
something other than visuals, or realize that it's simpler to
find a good issue of Penthouse than a good relationship.
>I have been in the scene - off and on - for 20 years and it seems that the
>ratio of downright fat people is always around 80% / 20%, with only twenty
>percent (or less) being in excellent physical condition.
You sample is insufficient, perhaps. The scene as I've encountered it
is not exactly abounding in delicate nymphets, but there's a nice
variety in sizes and shapes. On the other hand, I'm not so...sensitive...
as you appear to be, and can generally handle myself in the presence of
people who don't interest me without feeling a need to post semiliterate
rants to newsgroups about how the world fails to resemble Baywatch.
>I am a Dom myself,
You secret is safe with me. (Sorry, Mr. Barrymore...)
>but have never (and would never) consider taking on a new sub that was more
>than 15lbs overweight and she would loose that in short order as my slave,
>let me tell you. Being overweigh is unhealthy and (to those of us Masters
>that work very hard to keep our own weigh within 5 pounds of ideal) -
>downright disgusting. I have been searching for a partner for over 10 months
>now and only 2 out of 40+ contenders have been built like a pig, even though
I suppose one would wonder why a, ah, Master of such, ah, extensive
experience, would still be in need of a partner; one would think you
wouldn't have misplaced the previous ones in light of your, ah, manly
physique and domly prowess. Guess they voted with their feet, eh?
>my ads always mention that I am looking for someone physically fit. I think
>these women suffer from the same thing us guys do - they see the words "Dom,
>Male, Attractive and Physically Fit" and wanting a Master like that - become
>"blind" to the rest of the criteria and go ahead and respond to someone with
>a gorgeous figure. Why would they do that when they can't even take care for
Or perhaps they are entirely aware that many men have, shall we say,
an inflated view of their own attractiveness, and are appropriately
compensating for either this visual delusion or the evident personality
defects that accompany it.
>their own. I know this happens with "Sub, Fem, Attractive and Fit" women,
>as far as getting some fat guy sending her his picture. What is wrong with
>people? LOOSE THE FAT!
My, what a marvelous visual: little globules of fat (I picture them
like the little cubes in pork'n'beans) running madly around the
landscape, emitting small, high-pitched noises and periodically
gathering together in quivering towers of pinkish-beige grandeur.
Indeed, a cause to be pursued: loose the fat!
>No one really wants an obese person on top of them,
>or under them for that matter, when the option is someone with a beautiful
>figure, be that masculine, or feminine.
You really *ought* to explore more options. Say, sex standing up, or
those nifty positions where one partner is roughly perpendicular to
the other. (I commend to you a small furnishing known as an ottoman.
Everyone should have one.) That way you can attain variety and still
keep the same partner. Astonishing, eh?
>My question to Doms is - why don't you MAKE your subs loose their "obese"
>status?
I'd rather have them loose their fantasies, or their fears, or their
pens or fingers to write long and interesting letters.
>It's what all Doms want - to have a sub with a beautiful physique. Just do
Insufficient data, Will Robinson. Correct survey sample to n>1.
>something about it! I'd wager that if every fat sub where to be overlooked,
>at all times - that there would be allot less fat people into the scene,
>because no one that is slender and fit - wants a fat partner. That goes for
>both Doms looking for subs and subs looking for Doms. Just an opinion from
Blatantly untrue; tell me, do you ever do this in real life, or are your
fantasies better when unburdened by actual evidence?
>some Dom with the build of a Greek God, looking for his Greek Goddess.
Hmmm. This may perhaps explain it. Greek Gods were rather
notoriously shallow critters, famous for overlooking little details
like consent in favor of satisfying their desires. Their objects of
desire didn't have all that great a track record on happily-ever-after
either; I commend to you Semele, Daphne, Io, Hyacinth, etc. Do
you have to keep seeking new partners because yours also end up
dead or miserable?
Perhaps you should do some deeper reading; say, Thorne Smith.
Otherwise, I'm afraid you just don't meet my standards, and the
problem with you is not something that can be "loosed".
Amoret
amo...@magenta.com
(who expects a response calling her a fat, unfulfilled submissive...)
(heh)
What care I for a goose-feather bed
The blankets strewn so calmly-oh?
Tonight I lie in the wide-open fields
In the arms of a raggle-taggle gypsy-oh!
Joe Zeff
"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>It is so interesting to see how this group has responded to my inquiry! The
>responses have all been angry ones? Why is that?
Maybe because you started off by insulting a number of the regulars,
either by calling *them* obese, or their partners? Did you really
expect them to thank you, or welcome you with open arms?
>I did not direct my
>response towards any individual,
This is true; you were, and are, an equal-opportunity insulter.
>yet every one of you has replied with some
>snotty, condescending and personally insulting remark, instead of being
>decent with your answer(s)!
You expect us to respond decently after the way you slapped us? Don't
be absurd!
You, sirrah, do not deserve to call yourself a Dom. You are, IMHO, a
hopelessly self-involved, deluded, clueless git. You think that,
because *you* like something, everybody else must. You are so
infested with One-True-Wayism that you can't even see how badly you've
offended people. In short, you are an odious toad. *Plonk!*
---
Joe Zeff
The Guy With the Sideburns
If you can't play with words, what good are they?
http://www.lasfs.org
Jubal Harshaw
>
>It will be interesting to see if any of you have the decency (or the
>backbone) to apologize yourself, for the snotty, condescending and downright
>fucking rude messages you have directed personally towards me! I dare you
>to.
Oh, please, *please* hold your breath waiting...
Jubal
Tirant
Thank you Amoret. Your post was wonderful.
I guess it all boils down to one thing, to Curious1<Xan...@worldnet.att.net>
all looks but please, no substance. How very sad. Why not buy a blow-up doll
or manaquin.
Sweet dreams, Nan
Mistress Nan, Author of "My Private Life; Real Experiences of a Dominant
Woman."
Fnord Prefect Fnord (the little blue guy)
Curious1 (xan...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: (meaning within 5 lbs. of my ideal weight, according to any doctor) Maybe
: those that are so insecure as to flame a perfectly innocent inquiry as to
: why there is such a disproportionate amount of fat people in this country
: ought to lose the weigh, so they can be much happier than they apparently
: are (judging from the responses thus far).
I think what got you flamed was your statements that fat beings are
disgusting(which is an opinion, not a fact) and that no dom wants a
fat sub(which is untrue.)
: By the way - this was a survey for Doms to reply to!
I know, but my Mistress told me to. Besides, if you refuse to dominate
fat subs, how can you expect them to obey you when you tell them not
to reply?
Fnordy, who has the physique of a cheap carnival plushie
Fnord Prefect Fnord (the little blue guy)
A Silly Person wrote:
: > >My question to Doms is - why don't you MAKE your subs loose their "obese"
: > >status?
To keep the subs safe from you? Maybe there are lots of "obese" subs
*twirling * and *frolicing* for joy now that they know you won't
notice them.
louise
<snip of inflammatory prose>
>Otherwise you really are worth nothing more than a piece of
>shit! Are you now?
Can we say, "Troll" ?
(wandering off peacefully to read some brand new, original bdsm posts
that i just saw)
--
louise lou...@usa.net
louis...@hotmail.com
----> louise's quest: http://www.ownme.com/x/slaveviews/LouiseQuest.asp
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Bistro/2116
Capitol Area Power Exchange (CAPE): http://members.aol.com/capebrla/
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall
be lost in its unshored, harborless immensities.
-- H. Melville, 1851
MissJudi
"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>It is so interesting to see how this group has responded to my inquiry! The
>responses have all been angry ones? Why is that? I did not direct my
>response towards any individual, yet every one of you has replied with some
>snotty, condescending and personally insulting remark, instead of being
>decent with your answer(s)!
1) It's called fighting fire with fire. Your post was obnoxious at
best, downright trollish as worst. If you can't see that then you're
much farther from the "decent" person you claim to be and probably
could do with a little self-examination.
2) You seem to think that because you didn't insult one particular
person, it's ok... well, no, you didn't single any one specific person
out and slam them... you insulted a whole *mess* of people, and
frankly, you should be willing to take what you get for it. With
GRACE.
3) You called your post a "survey"... and then you were shocked when
you got responses?? Did you really expect that every single person who
read your letter would react with attaboys and pats on the back?
>Are you all so miserable that you feel justified
>by being so rude in your responses.
Akem's razor... the most likely explanations to a phenomena is
probably the correct explanation. In other words, is it more likely
that we are *all* "so miserable"? Or is it more likely that your
original post (and subsequent back-handed "apology", which IMO was no
apology at all, but yet another opportunity to vent your spleen) was
so unpleasant as to draw large volleys of fire?
>If it does make you feel better to stage
>a personal affront towards a general inquiry
Your original post was a personal affront to many people here, is that
so impossible to believe and *accept*?
>, which was not directed at any
>one individual
See above. The fact that it wasn't directed at any one individual
doesn't make it OK. Period.
>- then all I can say is that I'm surprised anyone finds you
>worthy of their time! To those of you that have behaved in such an immature
>manner -
I rather think it is your own outrageously narrow views of people that
is immature.
>take a look at yourself and ask yourself why my original inquiry
>regarding obesity has angered you so!
It was offensive. I, again, ask you to take a long hard look at
*yourself*.
And about that apology. Let's be honest here, it wasn't really an
TyMeDwn1st
"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net>, still posting from some other planet,
continued to rant:
>Alright, I have had absolutely enough of the hypocrisy
Whatever are you talking about? I haven't seen a single post that
has any hypocricy whatsoever.
> going on regarding my
>original post. Everyone one of you (save for a couple of decent
>individuals) have thrown back as much or more fucking shit as I ever did in
>my post.
So you think that you should be able to post a viewpoint that others here find
reprensible and NOT get flamed for it? If so, you're far more naive than you
have tried to appear.
>The difference is - that you all did it intentionally, directing the insults
>at one. I may have offended others, but I did not set out to treat another
>individual like a worthless piece of shit and for having been insensitive -
>I apologize? Talk about a bunch of hypocrites!
Again, there's no hypocrisy here. You dropped into the newsgroup and spewed a
doctrinaire line of fantasy that you claimed was a survey. In actuality, it
was simply an offensively-worded statement of your own view, along with a
request that folks affirm your perspective. They didn't. And they didn't like
the entire attitude behind the post. So what? Are you so insecure that the
responses you got upset you? Why would you care about the anger of total
strangers?
(For that matter, I can't quite understand all the uproar from folks responding
to your post, either. I'm no longer the thin young woman I once was -- I'm 51
years old and weigh about 165 -- and it makes no difference at all to me that
you think that's unattractive or unhealthy. I don't know you, I don't
especially care to meet you, and all you are to me is little dots on the screen
in front of me. Actually, I thought your entire rant was pretty funny -- both
in its wording AND in its perspective -- and deserved simply to be ignored.)
>To those of you not as decent as I in your messages - I suggest that you
>take a look at yourself in the mirror. At least I had the decency to not
>insult any one individual.
Well, the difference is that you were posting to a group as an entity, and many
of the members of the group posted back to you. Your argument is silly.
>It will be interesting to see if any of you have the decency (or the
>backbone) to apologize yourself, for the snotty, condescending and downright
>fucking rude messages you have directed personally towards me! I dare you
>to.
My, my, my! Such language! Naughty words, topped off by a dare?! Aren't we
*ever* such a DomlyDom tonight?
Fact is, no one needs to apologize to you. You blundered in here raving,
espousing a view that is (1) highly inflammatory, and (2) most assuredly NOT a
universal truth, as you iniatially considered it. And folks responded with a
clear demonstration of how much credibility they accorded you. If you can't
stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Or newsgroup, as it were.2
>If you can do so - great! Then you are indeed as decent a person as I am,
>despite my occasional short-comings (which we all have o' perfect ones). If
>you can apologize - my hat's off to you and I thank you for your
>consideration! Otherwise you really are worth nothing more than a piece of
>shit! Are you now?
Oh, Curious, you are indeed an amusing piece of work. Insults, more insults,
self-righteous indignation, and now a parting zinger. Too bad so much of it is
so far off the mark. Whatever makes you think that anyone here gives a rat's
ass what you think of them?
Is it safe to assume that since you feel so aggrieved and insulted, and since
you think the 'group is full of shit, you'll be leaving us soon?
Ty
Who is mostly just
a slightly skewed
Donna Reed
... and who thinks, "One can always hope...."
Joy Hilbert
Curious1 writes
>Just an opinion from
>some Dom with the build of a Greek God
Bacchus, Ganymede or Haephestus?
--
Joy Hilbert
Built for use, not ornament
Joy Hilbert
Curious1 <xan...@worldnet.att.net> writes
>The difference is - that you all did it intentionally, directing the insults
>at one. I may have offended others, but I did not set out to treat another
>individual like a worthless piece of shit and for having been insensitive -
>I apologize? Talk about a bunch of hypocrites!
You define 80% of the bdsm community as being "obese" and then attack
them, but this isn't "treating another individual like a worthless piece
of shit"?
You have odd definitions.
--
Joy Hilbert
Will your weight be on your tombstone? Will your family talk about your clothing
sizes or about the love you've given them? Are you a number or a person?
- Leanna Kennedy-Alvis
TyMeDwn1st
"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> threatened:
>Thank you Kestrel! I know I was wrong and I have apologized. I just hope
>that the others can drop it now that I have realized my mistake.
> Otherwise - I will wear them down, one at a time, until they no longer give
>a shit and will be happy just to never hear another word from me. I am an
>unbeatable adversary in war (historically) and I have all of the energy in
>the world to do battle. Again - thanks for answering my question, in a
>decent manner, I greatly appreciate it!
:::laughing merrily::: Oh, dimwit, you are TRULY ignorant of what happens in
this newsgroup. We've dealt with -- and survived! -- all the garbage that ES
could put out and the incessant bayings of woofie, and believe me, sweetie,
you're not even remotely in their league. Hell, we even manage to kill off
spammers!
Still and all, I couldn't see any reason to respond to your first post, and I
see even less reason to bother reading whatever tripe you post in the future.
<plonk!>
TyMeDwn1st
f...@harvee.billerica.ma.us (Fnord Prefect Fnord (the little blue guy)) wrote:
>Fnordy, who has the physique of a cheap carnival plushie
That's okay, my little clump of bug poop, *I'm* just CRAZY about you!
TyMeDwn1st
Well, I think we now know the answer to the question we've all been asking
ourselves and each other:
Why in the world is this completely clueless dweeb posting his ego-centric
drivel *AND* responding in such a ballistic manner?
Amoret asked:
>>I suppose one would wonder why a, ah, Master of such, ah,
>>extensive experience, would still be in need of a partner; one
>>would think you wouldn't have misplaced the previous ones in
>>light of your, ah, manly physique and domly prowess. Guess
>>they voted with their feet, eh?
And the clueless dweeb answered:
>The reason I am not with them now is that they all proved to be
>liars! They were not forgiven for that, as it was a policy going
>into the arragements that honesty was of the utmost importance
>and that if I was ever lied to - they would be banished from my
>life! Just for your information :-)
Okay, folks, herein lies a very powerful insight into Clueless Dweeb. We're
not dealing with our usual run-of-the-mill chudwah or wannabe here. We seem to
have tripped over yet another paranoid personality who thinks that posting
insults here will win him friends and support.
Does this sound familiar to anyone? Remind you of anyone we know?
YO! HEY! YEAH, you in the flashy red cape with the hood on it..... uh huh,
yeah, I know you're on your way to your grandma's house, but I just want to
warn you to watch out for ALL the woofie's around these here woods. Yes, I
know you know what the *first* woofie sounds like, but girlfriend, I'm here to
tell you right now there are more woofie's out here than just woofie.
Y'all be careful out there now, okay? And remember to use that <plonk!> stuff
when you find woofie-words, even if they're from some other paw.
>>Or perhaps they are entirely aware that many men have, shall we say,
>>an inflated view of their own attractiveness, and are appropriately
>>compensating for either this visual delusion or the evident personality
>>defects that accompany it.
>
>What may I ask makes you so good? Don't be so presumptuous. It isn't
>becoming a of lady!
the wharf rat
In article <1vaitkHK...@hilbert.demon.co.uk>,
Joy Hilbert <HIL...@hilbert.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Bacchus, Ganymede or Haephestus?
Trollus.
The god of, well,...
Remslusti
>We're
>not dealing with our usual run-of-the-mill chudwah or wannabe here. We seem
>to
>have tripped over yet another paranoid personality who thinks that posting
>insults here will win him friends and support.
>
>Does this sound familiar to anyone? Remind you of anyone we know?
ah, Ty, you are giving the species a bad name! he may just be another sheep
in.........ah, no i wont go there.
lets all play nice now and flame him for what he is .. not who he resembles..
there is plenty to flame i think..
Lusti
Katharine
Dear Curious1,
Remember that news propagation varies greatly -- it sometimes take
days for an article to appear (though that's an extreme scenario).
At any rate, it's a safe bet to assume that just because you post
something, that doesn't mean everyone else sees it right away.
--Katharine
M. Shirley Chong
Curious1 wrote:
<<<snippage of a lot of irrelevant foolishness>>>
Oooops! <sweet smile> guess that's that for what Curious1 said.
I have a theory as to why Curious1 is posting all this, um, uh,
<ahem> stuff. His posts are actually disguised personal ads. It's actual
evidence of his possession of a clue! He read the charter or one of the
posts referring to the charter and realized that a blatant personal ad
is not allowed by the charter. So he thought up a way to post his ad.
He's looking for a slender submissive whose only criteria for a
master/dom/top is that he have a slender body himself. He imagines she's
so desperate that she'll overlook his total obnoxiousness.
I take it back--my theory is wrong, it's clear this one doesn't have
a clue.
M. Shirley Chong
To reply, get that weasel outta my address!
Dzur
>I am really curious as to why there are so many overweight and downright
>obese people into the scene? It would seem to me that any Master would much
>more prefer a slender, fit (and in the case of female subs) a voluptuous
>body, over that of someone with the build of a small heifer!
Oh my oh my, what an interesting question.
I think I'll reply to this because for once I believe I have an
informed opinion. I will also try to keep my answer polite, and
discuss the issues raised. I will try very hard not to keep laughing.
First, let me tell you my qualifications to speak on this subject:
1: I am a Dom
2: I am 6'2" tall, and weigh approx. 400 lbs.
3: I am married to my submissive, who is 5'10" tall and 260 lbs.
4: My other submissives have ranged from thin to heavyset.
In other words, I also have the body of a God.... BUDDA! ;-)
Ok, why do I have heavy submissives?
It depends on what you are looking for in a slave, I guess, and
what is important to you. If you value your looks, and your
physicque, that's great. I can see why you would want someone with a
common set of values. But so do I.
Ya see, it's not that I want to be fat, or that I choose to be
fat, it's simply that I don't give two shits what I look like,
combined with a love of fine cuisine and chocolate. I hate to
excercise, as that involves great deals of unnecessary sweating. Do I
understand this is not healthy? Yes, I'm not stupid. I know I have to
lose weight, but I expect to do it gradually over the next 10-15 years
by a slow, steady change in my lifestyle to a healthier diet and more
activity.
Personally, I'm hoping that I can find a whole bevy of willing,
naked, and bound submissive females so I can work off lots of calories
sweating for a good reason.... ;-)
What is important to me? My mind, and who I am inside me. As far
as I'm concerned, my body is simply a vehicle to tote the real me
around in, and for enjoying slaves with. That's it. I care about what
I think, what I feel, what I reason, what I care about, what I
dislike, what I do, who I love. I have an evolving personal integrity
which I carry through life, and most of all I value that about myself,
I guess. To thine own self be true, as the Bard said.
During this last year we have been looking for a 24/7 female
submissive to join our family. I have talked with several people, some
here on the newsgroup. We have had two very serious candidates. One
very pretty with a full, shapely body (not exactly trim, but very
female 8-) ) and one who I would best describe as pleasingly plump.
8-)
Of the two, the second, "plump" one was far and away the best
candidate. She had what was needed inside her to be a wonderful
slave... maturity, good humor, patience, tolerance, and a true love of
servitude. It was a great shame that other factors prevented her from
joining us full time. The first one did join us, for a few months,
but regardless of her beautiful figure and girlish smile she was
somewhat hollow inside, lacking the maturity or perspective to care
deeply about anything beyond herself. Things fell apart with her when
real life set in.
Now before I get jumped on, please understand that I'm not
implying that all beautiful women are immature airheads, or that all
fat women are perfect people inside. What I am saying is that the
packaging on the outside really doesn't have anything to do with
what's on the inside, and what's on the inside is what makes
relationships work.
Now, would I object if some drop-dead gorgeous beauty queen threw
herself into my bed and begged to be tortured? Hell no, I'm not
stupid. Like most males here in America I've been raised with certain
criteria regarding beauty, and like most males I stare, pant, stiffen,
and gurggle when a "foxy babe" walks by. I appreciate a pretty body
with the best of them.
But I sure am not going to make any choices about who I let into
my life on the basis of the stretching in my pants. I chose, very
wisely I might add, to marry my wife simply because I was and still am
very confident that this was a woman I could live with for the rest of
my life. I will choose our slave not by her looks, but by how well
she fits in, how submissive she is, how smart she is, how masochistic
she is, and how funny she is. I want her be able to care for us and
yet relish the role of a slave, to be part of the family yet
subservient to it. As for her body, I only require that she be fit
enough to perform the tasks I give her, and to be able to endure
certain bondage and submissive postions for a period of time. If
she's also a knockout... bonus... but that's all.
Now I understant that you probably also want all of the above, IN
ADDITION to having your values regarding her body and your ideas on
what you consider healthy and fit. Fine. I wish you luck, bub,
because I know that finding a good slave of ANY size or bodytype is
hard enough, and if you throw 80% of those back because their body is
less than perfect, well, that makes the number of "acceptable"
candidates for you pretty slim.
Ok. I'll take a stab at the other half of your question, but try
to keep that answer shorter. 8-) Why does such a high proportion of
people in BDSM seem to be heavy?
Don't know, not a shrink. I can speak for myself, and maybe that
will help, maybe not. I've always been big, even as a child. In
addition to being fat, I actually do have large bones. 8-) Growing up
in school I was never popular, and very much a nerd. Of course, I
*LIKE* being a nerd, but it does not get you dates in school, let me
tell ya. 8-) So here I was with a strong, healthy sex drive... and no
female in school would have anything to do with me.
See I was also smart, and was in all the "advanced" classes with
all the "beautiful" people. Socially, that crowd wanted nothing to do
with me. Please understand otherwise I had a great time in high
school, as I had good friends and in our own nerdish ways we had great
times. BUT NO SEX!!!! 8-) And in all honesty, I think the lack of
caring, the lack of intimacy was the greater issue.
Nightly I would dream about the beautiful girls who sat around me
in class, but I knew I could never have them. In time I began to
think how nice it would be to TAKE them, and enjoy their beauty
regardless of their wishes. I began to desire POWER over them, I
wanted to control them, and make them mine. I wanted to make them be
with me, and share my inner self with them....knowing that if they
could get to really know me they would come to care honestly for me.
Well, that was the fantasy anyway.
Earlier incidents in my youth would indicate that this is not the
only reason I became a lifestyle dominant and sadist, but I can't help
but think this experience, or lack thereof, with girls in high school
played at least some part in the formation of my inner needs.
Perhaps BDSM is just a fairly extreme form of needing, and needing
to be needed. Some people may have had a deep need for intimacy and
connection to others which, because of their looks, was never
satisfied early in life. Perhaps not having that intimacy makes one
want it all the more, in the most intense form possible... like Master
and slave. I know I value my emotional intimacy with my wife all the
more because I didn't have any intimacy for so many years.
Maybe I'm full of shit, I don't know. Just thought I would put my
ideas in, since you asked.
And one more piece of advice thrown in for free, bub. If you wish
to ask such a question as you did, that's great. I would suggest
however that you learn to take a more tactful and RESPECTFUL approach
if you want serious and respectful answers. If you go in pushing all
the buttons don't be surprised if people are less than eager to have a
polite and informed discussion with you. Respect earns respect.
Think about it.
- Dzur
EMAIL: dz...@cecs.com ICQ# 5809026
*** TAGLINE OF THE MONTH ***
A woman answers the door to a market researcher. "Good morning
madam, I'm doing some research for Vaseline. Do you use it at
all in your household?"
"Oh yes, all the time. It's very good for cuts, grazes and burns."
"Do you use it for anything else?"
"Like what?"
"Ahem.. err.. well.. during.. ahem.. sex."
"Oh, of course. Yes, we smear it on the bedroom doorknob to keep
the kids out."
Remslusti
the young man said in a most obnoxious post the following:
>What I
>did expect was people to not be so rude. I wasn't as rude as they have
>consistently been in my post! Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for
>the rest of the group. I won't be coming back to this group again (after
>what I've seen of the "quality" of people here) after I manage to tire them
>of battle and put out the flames.
>
>
ok, you have put out the flames.. now go..!!!!!!!! shooo!!!!!!
Lusti
Remslusti
Curious1 whined the following:>That one can use for this group? I have
apologized, twice now! I wish for
>the immature, childish name-calling to stop. Aren't we all adults here? The
>lesson has been learned.
>
>
just go away, maybe change your name or something, but I dont think the welcome
mat is out for you.. get a clue!
Lusti
MissJudi
tymed...@aol.com (TyMeDwn1st) wrote:
>Well, I think we now know the answer to the question we've all been asking
>ourselves and each other:
>
>Why in the world is this completely clueless dweeb posting his ego-centric
>drivel *AND* responding in such a ballistic manner?
My conclusion is that he is a very young and inexperienced person.
This is not meant as an insult to him, and we shall see how he takes
it, but after many many many (OK, too damn many) hours online, I learn
a little more each day about recognizing the younger members of our
society through their textural representations of themselves. I still
make mistakes, and I'm certainly willing to accept the possibility
that I have done so here, in assuming that Curious1 is a youngster, if
that is the case :)
My first hint that we might be dealing with someone quite young and
inexperienced was when he showed his ass... *spectacularly*, and on a
topic which most folks who've been around the block a few thousand
times begin to realize is really (unless size, either large or small
is your kink) a trivial and superficial issue.
I had a long chat one evening with a very bright and articulate bunch
of 18-somethings, and found their views, while put far more
diplomatically, to be somewhat in line with Curious1's. I spoke to
them, at length, about my own views on it, and they were open to
listening and responding honestly. They had my respect by the end of
the evening, but I did leave the discussion with the feeling that
"they'll probably grow out of this (as many have had to do) and
realize that looks come and go, but depth is the cornerstone of any
mature relationship."
The second hint was his attempt at an apology. It was belligerent and
petulant, I think we agree on that.
I was far more impressed by his second apology and would be likely to
let this go, although I still wonder if, after all his threats to
verbally run down anyone who continues responding to his original
posts, he is utterly sincere. Time will tell and I very much hope he
is, and will stay, learn, and contribute more, shall we say,
enlightened material.
I guess what I'm trying to say (or is that "babble"? ;)) is that if
this young man can pipe down with his "I'll fight you to the death,
all you fat people" long enough to see that others have viewpoints as
valid as his own AND have the right to state them AND are just as
"decent" as he considers himself to be, I'm willing to cut him a bit
of slack. That slack will run out pretty quickly, though, if he can't
control his temper tantrums.
To Curious1:
My third hint that you are a very young man is that you insist that
since no one has "answered" your "survey", we all must be fat (or to
use your own words, "barges" "pigs" etc)... this is an extremely
childish way of dealing with conflict. You are trying to invalidate
other's opinions by using highly derogatory language in an effort to
distract, while making yourself feel somewhat soothed. It is akin to
responding to "That color shirt looks terrible on you," with "Yeah??
well, you... you.. your mother wears army boots, so THERE!" Calling
everyone here names will neither win you friends, nor is it in any way
relevant to the discussion... it is a distraction, and a childish one
at that. Please stop doing that, thank you.
I'm not sure if you've ever heard the term YKIOK before, but just in
case you haven't, let me fill you in: it stands for "your kink is OK."
The majority of serious bdsm players strongly believe that people in
glass houses who throw stones are likely to end up with smashed
windows. What we do (bdsm) is not generally accepted by our respective
world-wide societies. Therefore we try to create as supportive and
nurturing a community amongst ourselves as possible. (NOTE: there is
one obvious member of our small newsgroup community who strongly
disagrees with this, but I'm sure he would be more than willing to
tell you that himself... in vivid and excruciating detail.) The fact
remains that any YKINOKism (your kink is NOT OK-ism) is seen as the
product of a closed mind, and isn't easily suffered by this community.
My best tip is this: take your lumps, but don't leave the newsgroup
(unless you feel that you have nothing productive to offer), and then
watch, learn and enjoy. Once you do that, I think that you might find
yourself coming to appreciate our diversity, and even admiring at
least *some* of our members for their intelligence, warmth and
contributions to this group and to the bdsm community as a whole.
I hope you take this criticism as it is intended: constructively. You
wanted to hear from a dominant? Well, I am such a creature, but I
would also ask that you stop and realize that without the input of
submissives, we dominants would be left trying to whip and otherwise
joyfully abuse eachother, and *only* eachother. PLEASE keep in mind
that just because a submissive is, well, submissive, doesn't mean that
he/she is lower than carpet dust (unless, of course, that's their
kink, in which case, see above ;)) I have learned equally as much from
submissives as I have from dominants, and each orientation has its own
fascinating and illuminating perspective. Please don't shut anyone out
*because* of their orientation... you will not only find yourself in a
majority of one, here on SSBB, you will be a very lonely and *alone*
"dominant, indeed.
I am NOT trying to flame you out of existence, and though you may
think some of my words harsh, I urge you to re-read what I have said
before firing off another angry missive. Unfortunately, sometimes it
takes a bloody nose before a lesson is learned... not pretty, but
there it is.
<posted and mailed>
wu...@istar.ca
In article <6gjrtq$7...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> I'm not that naive. These people are apparently angry about some
> other underlying issue and my post has acted as the straw on the camels back
> and now they are projecting all of their frustration in life at this time,
> over this issue.
you are quite right...they are attempting to ignore their usually favourite
target and you just happened to have given them something else to whine
about...
you are, of course, correct about the percentages of fat people vs. thin in
bdsm...most of those I've met or heard of are indeed "fat"...louise often
fretted about her inability to attract someone due to her excessive weight...
regarding doms etc exercising some control over their subs etc weight...
at least one of us is in fact making great headway in that direction...my
slave is down 80 pounds...
we do this not so much because of looks as for the freedom of motion
permitted to a thin body...
I should also point out that appearances outside the mainstream of
Cosmospolitan seems to have an interesting effect on personality as
well...either they become extremely bitter at so much rejection or extremely
compassionate for the needs of others...
some (tho' not all) overweight/obese individuals develop a sensitive side of
their personality which more than adequately compensates for their size...
when you stop and think how difficult it is to teach someone "compassion"
compared to the effort needed to change someone's eating disorder you'll find
selecting larger sized individuals might actually be the best way of getting
both someone who is compassionate and (eventually) thin...
of course, none of this is mitigation for those who applied to you expecting
you to overlook your standards...such individuals are attempting a
not-so-subtle 'bait-and-switch' scam by attempting to get you to lower your
standards for their sake...
and you are right to refuse them...start lowering your standards in one sphere
and where does it end...? before long they've weasled you into lowering other
standards and then wonder what happened to the person they fell in 'love'
with...
or they get bitter, angry, and vengeful because you refused to lower your
standards for _them_ and begin saying a lot of untrue and unkind things about
you...
few face rejection with equanimity...
stick to your principles...
as for your difficulty with the crowd in ssbb...bear in mind that ssbb is a
censored group moderated through ridicule, character assassination, and
harassment of ISPs who do not lower _their_ standards for the sake of a few
immature people who haven't the guts to accept responsibility for their need
to censor unpopular opinions in an unmoderated newsgroup...
there is a certain honour in confronting them with their own shortcomings and
suffering the slings and arrows of outraged abusive personalities...I bear my
scars as badges of honour...
I hope you will see your own difficulties with ssbb in the same light...when
abusive personalities such as the majority of ssbb posters attack you then you
know you are doing something right...
unless being popular with a lot of abusive personalities is a goal of yours...
;-)
posted/mailed
SSBB Charter:
-To provide a safe and open forum, where people of any gender or sexual
-orientation can engage in discussion, support, socialisation and general
-interchange concerning the various topics referred to collectively as "BDSM"
-(Bondage & Discipline, Dominance & Submission, Sadism & Masochism).
-
-There are numerous related topics which are also appropriate to this group.
-"BDSM" is intended here to be read in its broadest sense.
Scarlet Letter (an informed choice is a wise choice): Caution, expressing
support for my opinions and ideas can get you flamed here, and may result
in others complaining to your ISP or threatening you with law enforcement
agencies. At this time soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm is _not_ a "safe and
open forum" for discussion as required by its charter and thus the normal
operation of this group has been adversely affected for those who wish to
discuss, question, or praise any of my essays in this group...
There are many posters here who have demonstrated an abusive attitude for
those who criticize their attacks or who support me in any way...Here are
a few:
anthony/joy hilbert - hil...@hilbert.demon.co.ukq
arrowblue - arro...@ix.netcom.comq
black rose - klyn...@ix.netcom.comq
carrie schutrick - ca...@andrew.cmu.eduq
c konkel - cko...@u.washington.eduq
cronus/rhea - cro...@pentagon.io.comq
frazier - fra...@tidalwave.netq
gina/pet - gi...@hvi.netq
hannah da muppet - han...@links.magenta.comq
heidi/guttersnipe - sn...@visi.netq
h g craig - hgc...@slinknet.comq
john warren - jwar...@aol.comq
katharine - kha...@enteract.comq
ladygold/serion - lady...@earthlink.netq
laura goodwin - lal...@ix.netcom.comq
lawless - law...@howling.comq
leona joy - le...@heathen.comq
louisel - lou...@usa.netq
louisel2 - loui...@aol.comq
louise_lol - louis...@hotmail.comq
missjudi - mer...@mastnet.netq
pet/gina - petul...@aol.comq
philip the foole - p...@ix.netcom.comq
rosa nina williams - rosa...@students.uiuc.eduq
serion/ladygold - ser...@ibm.netq
shunyata - shun...@pclink.comq
sockermom9 - socke...@aol.comq
spyralfox - spyr...@aol.comq
steven davis - s...@magenta.comq
trystilarn - tryst...@aol.comq
william d starr - wds...@crl.comq
Disagreeing with these people can make your stay unpleasant... most of the
posters to this group tolerate this abuse and show little compassion for
the victims...I suggest you ask them for their point of view before
expressing one if you want to know whether yours will be tolerated...
Talk to your ISP about your privacy before making any contact...Drop the
"q"s from the list for valid addresses...
Wulf - accused of the intent to abuse children because I use
the pet name "little one" to describe adult consensual slaves...
welcome to ssbb...watch what you say...
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
wu...@istar.ca
In article <6gk0la$b...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> To those I have offended - please accept my most sincere apology for having
> insulted anyone. What's been done has been done and has now been learned
> from. Let's leave it at that and stop wasting each others time with
> hostility and resentment. Life is too short!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Curious1
unfortunately...most of the posters to ssbb post here primarily to vent their
hostility and resentment...
according to one of them it's considered "fun"...
I take it to be a commentary on the American culture that sustains racial
bigotry, inequitable payments for work of equal value, the gunning down of
school children by 13 year olds, All in the Family, and Seinfeld getting paid
a million or so per episode...
there has always been a number of Americans who sympathized with totalitarian
regimes and I suspect there are more than a few who are frustrated that _they_
do not rule autocratically...
in the U.S. it seems one is either a success or a failure, and few are taught
to take second-place with much grace...
so understand that those who seek to 'rule' ssbb through fear and harassment
are most likely trying to succeed at _something_ in their lives and this is a
sign of how desperate they are to feel like a "somebody"...
be the duck and let them be the water...no matter how turbulent the water
gets: you have the ability to rise above it...
PS...not having Arnie's body did not prevent me from seeing the truth in what
you posted, no apology required for speaking truth, Curious1...
Laine Victoria Campbell
Curious1 wrote:
> Another insult, from another poor slave! Did your Master put you up to that
> gregory? I do not tire of battle easily! I suggest that you stop while
> we're even.
hmmm, not only shallow, insensitive, narcissitic, uneducated and lacking in
social skills but a sexist pig as well.
here's another clue and i'll be nice about it so as not to hurt your precious
feelings "Sir".
not all subs (male and female) have or want a Master, not all Dom's want a
female sub or a slender one and not all Dominants are male and those who aren't
male still don't always want a slim sub.
you send a survery from Doms only, i guess in your skewed world a het Dmme
wouldn't have to worry about obese subs because all men are fit and only women
get fat? or maybe that Domme is overweight! or maybe the Dom you asked in the
first place is overweight.
c'mon kiddo, think, expand your horizons. people will be nicer, subs will be
more available, friends will be much more available and you won't waste all this
time responding to flames when you could be working out to make you look the way
you want to look.
laine (who is slim from choice and wants nothing to do with a Dom and could
care less if the Mistress of her dreams weighed 300 lbs or less than Fnord)
___________________________________________________________________
"I want him the the way a perverted, horny, bulldagger wants a young, tender
drag queen in a tight black slip and combat boots..."
Trish Thomas "Me and The Boys" from LeatherWomen edited by Laura Antoniou
___________________________________________________________________
Sonya
"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
<snip>
>>>I have been searching for a partner for over 10 months
>> Hmmm I wonder why you haven't found one.
>Because I have not found a "quality" one yet. You know - one capable of
>contributing as much as I have to offer?
<snip>
Maybe you need to look more closely at how you define "quality". Do
you mean a piece of eye candy with nothing else to add to your life
emotionally, mentally or spiritually? Do you mean a cardboard cut out
from your SkinTwo catalogs and Playboy Magazines? Or are you looking
for a REAL woman? It sounds to me like you're looking for the former.
I have no idea how old you are.. I'd guess under 30, but I could be
wrong... but IMO there are much more important things than body image
in this life.
You're right that fat is not healthy. But neither is overly thin.. or
overly fitness crazy. You can die from anorexia faster than from
obesity.
I am fit. I walk every day and lift free weights 4x a week. I also
bike ride on weekends, hike every camping trip, etc. However, you
would look at me and say I am fat because I am not a size 3. I was
not built that way. My sister is anorexic.. yes.. in treatment.. and
she is a size 13.. she is also 6' tall like me. You can't be 6' and a
size 3. <G>
I understand your frustration with personal ads. I don't use them
myself because I choose not to. However, you're cutting yourself off
from a wonderful segment of society by being so narrow minded.
Sonya
Curious1
In response to your post - thanks for the invaluable insight MissJudi! I
have learned a lesson here today, that's for sure!
Unfortunately, I seem to be one of the only ones that has thus far - as I am
still getting severe personal affronts directed at my character, from
everyone that reads the original post and I am being treated much more
viciously by the individuals of the group than anything I said to the group
initially warrants.
For those that haven't got a clue - an attack on someone's character is
potentially much more damaging and severe than an attack on someone's weight
class! You'll be disappointed to know however - that I have emerged
relatively unscathed from your disproportionately extreme assault! I know
where I am at personally and to be honest - it's better than what I've seen
here today!
There seems to be an overall attitude of "OK, I'm fat! So what? You're ugly
and I can lose weight!". It wouldn't bother me as much if after I
apologized these individuals were capable of doing the same, or at least let
bygones be bygones, since the lesson has been learned and an apology has
been issued. But apparently that is beyond their capacities. It makes one
wonder who really has the small mind here?.
What I did was felt as a blow to the stomach by the group! However, the
reprimand has been that of that of being drawn and quartered and essentially
eviscerated! So I ask you - who has really been the most unfair here?
To sum up, just an observation from my lesson today - this whole experience
makes me wonder if this group is worth trying to hang out in and getting to
know! If they are this vicious and unforgiving with anyone who says
something really stupid - I don't want any part of this group, especially if
they cannot exercise forgiveness to someone that has apologized for their
folly! This group will have to practice and exercise forgiveness for those
who have sincerely apologized before I will consider them the quality of
people I will associate and perhaps even someday - identify with.
Sincerely and respectfully,
Curious1
MissJudi wrote in message <352dacfe...@news.mastnet.net>...
Curious1
I have apologized. It's not for you nor anyone else to dictate how I choose
to do that! You can take my apology for what it means to you or not.
Everyone will anyway, no matter what the wording is!
Arrow Blue wrote in message <352DB2E2...@ix.netcom.com>...
>Curious1 wrote:
>
>> At least I apologized. To those that can't - well, they really are
assholes
>> aren't they? At least I have admitted my indecency, my mistakes and
>> acknowledged my shortcomings. If they can't do the same - doesn't that
seem
>> hypocritical, or at least that they are not as decent of a person after
all?
>> I'd say so!
>
> I read your apology post, and I didn't see anything in it that sounded
>like an apology.
>Just what do you think you did wrong? What exactly are your shortcomings
>that you admitted to?
>
> You have to list those and then sound sincerely contrite for it to be
>an apology.
>
>Arrow
Dana Watsham
Can't we just ignore him?
He's probably the type who discards a woman when she gets stretch marks
or her breasts begin to sag.....
missM
Arrow Blue
Curious1 wrote:
>
> I have apologized. It's not for you nor anyone else to dictate how I choose
> to do that! You can take my apology for what it means to you or not.
> Everyone will anyway, no matter what the wording is!
Interesting point of view, what with the whole point of apologizing
being that you want the other party to forgive you with the
understanding that you are sincerely sorry for your mistakes. I gather
you have this problem with other people a lot.
Personally I'm a bigot when it comes to intelligence. To interest me you
have to be able to understand and use words and be pretty fucking good
with them. You have to be able to think your way from A to B clear to Z
and back. You must have a pretty hard life not being able to quite keep
up.
with sympathy
Arrow
Jahwar
In article <6gk3un$6...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
Curious1 <xan...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>May I suggest that you read My Sincerest Apology? I made a critical error
>in judgment. I have apologized for it! Any further flaming (delivered as a
>personal insult) will be considered downright abuse and will be immediately
>retaliated against! I wish this horrible waste of energy to stop!
You seem unaware that it takes time for usenet articles to propogate
to other readers, and time for their replies to propagate back to
you.
You can either: 1) consider posts you read to be abuse and retaliate
against them, or
2) let the horrible waste of energy to stop.
Even if you don't post again ever, it will take days for all the
replies to make them self seen.
You can choose either 1) or 2). Not both. Which do you choose?
Spyral Fox
>
>May I suggest that you read My Sincerest Apology? I made a critical error
>in judgment. I have apologized for it! Any further flaming (delivered as a
>personal insult) will be considered downright abuse and will be immediately
>retaliated against! I wish this horrible waste of energy to stop! The
>lesson has been learned!
Lesson Number one is that you don't write loaded prose and then
expect people to be nice, right?
Lesson number two is that the net isn't instantaneous. Your
post will be propogating for a week or so. My own personal
record for a response was 17 days.
I could erase the post I wrote, but I figure it was reasonable,
given the fact that I've now scanned all your posts, including
the one apology I see in this batch download, which I wouldn't
call that (hint: a real apology doesn't usually end in insults).
take care,
- - -Spyral Fox spyr...@aol.com
"What makes you think I'd do as you say? Ani l'dodi."
owner: lordr...@aol.com
San Diego Info & Links: http://members.aol.com/spyralfox/ (updated 2/9)
Munches 3/24, 4/19, 5/26
Spyral Fox
*almost* makes it look like he got the point:
[....]
>1. Why it isn't at least a 50/50 ratio of slim vs, fat people in the scene,
>instead of the majority of people being fat, or out and out obese?
IME, there is at least a 50/50 ratio if not better. But then, I am
in Southern California. The gay men, as a statistical group,
tend to keep themselves in particularly good shape (individual
results vary, of course) which affects the overall stats. Other
than that, we look pretty much like ordinary people; some slim,
some plump, some muscular, some not, etc.
Factoid: The average person in Cleveland weighs 10 pounds
more that the average (same height & ethnicity) person in
San Diego..
>2. Being a Dom - would you rather have a sub with the build of beautiful
>statue or a small barge?
Do please define your terms. Venus of Willendorf is considered quite
attractive by some people. "Small barge" is inflammatory. A
better way to phrase this might be multiple choice, giving a
few options, such as Venus de Milo, the above mentioned item,
or Venus of Fashion (a little known item, easily reproduced with
a coat hanger). Or better yet, you could give specific examples
of actual human beings or well known advertisements. You are
managing to miss the point that your standard of attractiveness
is not universal, s well as demonstrating a lack of attention in
any Art History classes you may have taken.
FWIW, my Owner's tastes run more toward Miss June 1987
than toward Kate Moss, and he is repulsed by muscular-
appearing women.
>What do you think the majority of Doms would tell
>you?
Probably about what they said in the earlier thread -- most seem
more interested in the personality ands submissive qualities of
a woman than in her weight, body fat percentage, etc.
>3. If you are truly the Master of an overweight sub and prefer that s/he had
>a build of a beautiful statue,
[editorial note: for purposes of interpreting this, we will assume that
the statue in question is built like a size three manequin, because
it doesn't make sense otherwise. Most Greek statuary of women
(I mention this in particular since the poster has a Greek fetish)
show the female figure with rolls around her middle and hips,
rounded arms, etc. The Greeks were NOT into statues of "FIT
and MUSCUALR" women -- typically, they prefer the Marilyn
Monroe look.]
> then why in the hell
{ed note: ignore last word}
> don't you do something
>about it? You're the Master supposedly! That is supposed to be within your
>control (unless it is a thyroid disorder, or some other medical reason).
{ed note: come to think of it, go ahead and ignore those last
two sentences, too. They don't actually add anything to the
discussion other than clarify the bias of the poster}
Finally, a reasonable question. We KNEW you could do it,
sweetheart.
Personally, I can't answer it. My Owner is aware of the
fact that He can't really control what I eat, drink, or do,
and is a bit more subtle than to try to sculpt me directly
into what he wants. He was not happy with the 60+
pounds I put on between July and December. Neither
was I, come to mention it. But now that I'm back on
medication [1], my body *is* changing back toward His
preference, anyhow, because I want to please Him, not
because He has imposed rules on me.
I suspect that the goal He has in mind, which still includes
at least a C-cup, if not a D in the breast department, and
a curvy butt, and few visible muscle delineations, would not
be the same as the poster's preferences.
>Do you think there would have been any less hostility by putting it that
>way?
Yes. And the best way to put it would have been:
"If a Dom has a strong preference for a particular body
type, and has a sub who (while otherwise exactly what
the Dom wants) does not match this physical profile,
entirely because of issues to do with amounts of
body fat & musculature, then should the Dom try to
influence and alter the sub's body type by imposing
a change in diet / exercise, etc. (with physician
approval)? Why or why not?"
Now, that's pretty close to noninflammatory, is certainly
non-judgemental, avoids implying that Doms *should* prefer
a particular body type, and leaves it open to interpretation
about the gneders and desired physical ideal goals of the
parties involved).
>I'm not that naive. These people are apparently angry about some
>other underlying issue and my post has acted as the straw on the
>camels back and now they are projecting all of their frustration in
>life at this time, over this issue.
Thank you for playing. Better luck next time.
[1] Personal note: I had a check up today for the titers
of the drug in question, and it's utterly perfect. Now,
all I need is for people to wish me luck on the final test
I still need to take to ensure that all is well. And I did
get the new glasses with the prismatic corrections, and
I adore them! I can actually see what I am typing, and
only *once.*
Spyral Fox
In article <6gjs0k$7...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, "Curious1"
<xan...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>It takes one to know one Joe!
Hmmmm.... didn't this very poster, having put a hand on the
stove and gotten burned, say something in another post about
leaving when the flamers were exhausted? Looks to me
like the little sweetheart is already running out of steam,
and falling back on blatant Junior-High-isms.
Too bad.... after reading that he wrote
=Subject: Re: MY APOLOGIES!
=From: "Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net>
=Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:03:30 -0700
[....]
= Otherwise - I will wear them down, one at a time, until they
=no longer give a shit and will be happy just to never hear
=another word from me.
[....]
I was expecting ever so much more.
Free Clue, sweetheart: there is little chance that one of
you can outlast bunches of us. One sincere apology
would probably be accepted. Of course, you may want
to read up on things like "net-lag."
I sorta wish I could take a turn at our little Greek god pal,
here, but from what I see many good little missiles have already
been lobbed.
Lotsa good facts have been pointed out -- both the fact that
not everyone here shares his idea that a muscular, low-fat body
is the de-all, end-all for appearance (as I recall, while discobolus
had muscles, most female's statues of that period had poochy
tummies, and a bit of steatopyginous avoirdupois) amd the fact
that the weight charts have been abandoned by most health
professionals, who prefer to rely on actual measurements of
body fat and health status and genetic histories and so on
when counselling people about a healthy weight.
Not to mention a few nice little zingers, like wondering *which*
Greek god's body this darling has (point of order: Narcissus
was not a god, fitting as the image is). Or Joe's charming
analysis of his character. Or Leona's free clues. I greatly
enjoyed them. Kudos all around. Much more creativity
in those flames than in the above one-liner.
In fact, having read the accumulated posts, I'm afraid that I
can't say much more than "You guys are all HOT!"
Well, OK, maybe one comment....
I do have one thing I tell my students, when we study
the ethology of mate selection processes, however, which
I think may be relevant. People who are looking for a
partner typically have more stringent requirements for
personality in a person they would marry than in a person
they would casually accept for a date, and typically in a
successful marriage or multi-decade relationship they
are far less focussed on comparing the outside of a
partner to some standard of attractiveness than they
are in comparing the inner person to a construct of
a "beautiful" personality. People who chose partners
only for physical attributes often start looking for their
next piece of elbow jewelry when age fades "beauty"
-- facial wrinkles, fleshy sags, grey hair, and all those
body composition changes are normal, natural, and
in many cases carry measurable risk to fuck with.....
check the stats for morbidity and mortality for
plastic surgery if you don't believe me.
And, sweetheart, do please notice that my post, unlike
yours, actually contains qualifiers, because not everyone
is the same.
Shunyata
Spamblocing measures are in effect. To reply by e-mail,
please remove my gag.
Katharine sez, in response to Curious1:
(Quoting Curious)
> > I have apologized, twice now! I wish for the immature,
> >childish name-calling to stop. Aren't we all adults here?
> >The lesson has been learned.
> ...it's a safe bet to assume that just because you post
>something, that doesn't mean everyone else sees it right away.
It's also a safe bet to assume that very few people who have read
this youngster's "apologies" take them seriously. Every apology of
his that I've seen has been more about blaming other people for being
mad at him than about accepting responsibility for making them mad in
the first place. "Yes, I'm sorry I made you mad, but you should be
even sorrier for getting as mad as you did. Shame on you for getting
mad at me, aren't you immature?". Screw him. This character isn't even
speaking the same language as the people he's talking to. I think Judi
is right, he is probably about 18 going on 12, and as clueless as only
a child can be. I also think that Kestrel is right - there's no point
in flamimg the kid. It's one thing to argue with people who won't
listen, but why waste time arguing with people who can't hear?
He isn't sorry for what he said, he's only sorry for the consequences,
and he pretty much says so in every one of his insincere "I Apologize
Again" posts. That isn't an apology. He talks about learning a lesson,
but the only lesson I think he's learned is that when you insult people
here, they tend to respond as though they've been insulted. I don't see
any evidence that he truly feels badly about the feelings he's hurt, but
I see plenty of evidence that he feels badly about the way we've hurt
*his* feelings with our flames. That's not an apology; that's just
"crying uncle", the way you did on the playground when the bigger kid
was pulling your hair and the only way to get him to stop was to
publicly admit that that was the only way you could get him to stop. I
think this kid's years away from even being able to grasp the concept of
responsibility for one's actions.
Oddly enough, I don't get the feeling that this person's really a bad
guy. I just think he's as thick as a brick, and genuinely doesn't mean to
hurt people. It's just an accidental result of being completely clueless.
I plan to just ignore him, like I would any child.
Be well, everyone.
Shunyata
Fnord Prefect Fnord (the little blue guy)
: It wasn't intended to be rude - just an inquiry! I was not doing it to put
: anyone down. We are all entitled to our preferences and opinions. I can
Let me give you a hint. Calling people disgusting is considered rude.
Calling people disgusting is putting them down.
I can tell you're *crazy* about me. But then, I weigh less than 5 lbs.
louise
>For those that haven't got a clue - an attack on someone's character is
>potentially much more damaging and severe than an attack on someone's weight
>class!
This is quite true, especially within the bdsm community where (in my
opinion) most people seem to value one's character and inner self
quite highly.
i have been very pleased (and quite relieved!) at the number of
replies that i have received from my personal ad, despite the fact
that i chose to be honest and plainly stated that i am presently very
overweight. Some Masters do not prefer slender submissives, and others
do. Most of those Masters who chose to reply to my ad are apparently
motivated to do so because they are interested in my inner self ( i
think my ad plainly tells the reader that my outer self is neither
extremely beautiful nor extremely ugly by conventional standards). In
a way, my strengths and weaknesses act as a good filter, and i still
get more responses than i can easily answer. This is not to say that a
Master looking for a slender sub can't appreciate inner beauty too; i
am just speculating that slender subs looking for a partner might have
a little more difficulty with HNGs, in addition to serious responses.
Some submissives feel adrift without a Master, floundering about
without sufficient direction or control... perhaps this is one reason
why some have problems with overweight (though i am sure there are
probably numerous other reasons too). Other submissives feel like they
are in complete control of their own lives, and may not have the
slightest difficulty as far as overweight is concerned... though i
haven't come across one like this who chose a Master that would
require his slave to gain weight and become a bit plump. i'm sure that
probably happens, but i've not personally seen it, that i recall. That
could be a significant submission for some.
Some Masters want to establish complete control over their slave(s);
in this case, the slave's weight will become whatever her Master
prefers, if he has a preference. Other dominants don't choose to
exercise this kind of control, and that is up to them i would think.
--
louise lou...@usa.net
louis...@hotmail.com
----> louise's quest: http://www.ownme.com/x/slaveviews/LouiseQuest.asp
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Bistro/2116
Capitol Area Power Exchange (CAPE): http://members.aol.com/capebrla/
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall
be lost in its unshored, harborless immensities.
-- H. Melville, 1851
Mure`
It suddenly occurs to me that there are always huge debates and loads of
responses to those posts where someone (usually a guy or one pretending
to be a woman), can't have or find what he is after!
Humm?
Now I don't pay enough attention (nor do I care to) to this group, to
know if Curious1 has a similar addy to any of the other active and
inflametory posters of late.... but it does beg the question???????
As for his opinion about obese subs - I have to agree that there does
seem to be a predominance of heavier pll (male and female) in the
scene...or at least *LOOKING* in the the scene... and when one specifies
that you are looking for someone who is thin, it often creates a fire
storm....why? Well, I don't know.
But it CAN be frustrating for someone who *IS* thin and wants to find a
complementery body type in a partner.......that not withstanding I think
that his approach *WAS* off base and probably got the type of response
it deserved.
Just my $.02
Regards,
Mure`
T. Eckhart
>something about it!
That is a very small and shallow thing to want. It is far from
what I want and demand but then I demand the best my partner is capable
of.
The body is fleeting. An accident tomorrow could leave my
Treasure or my Harmony with scars and injuries on their bodies that might
never heal. As long as the mental and emotional could be pulled up to par
I would want them as my property. At least I would always want to be
there as a friend.
And as a sadist, people with more padding, be it muscle or fat,
have more areas I can enjoy and seem to be able, in my experience, to take
more physical play. I don't want someone I have to worry about breaking
with just one blow.
Not to mention the fact that what might be unhealthy for one
person can be healthy for another. I'd rather have a partner with a belly
I can lay my head on than one couching and wheezing because he/she smokes
any day.
Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,
--
TammyJo Eckhart (teck...@kiva.net)
http://www.kiva.net/~teckhart/
louise
On 10 Apr 1998 12:15:17 GMT, spyr...@aol.com (Spyral Fox) wrote:
>[1] Personal note: I had a check up today for the titers
> of the drug in question, and it's utterly perfect. Now,
> all I need is for people to wish me luck on the final test
> I still need to take to ensure that all is well. And I did
> get the new glasses with the prismatic corrections, and
> I adore them! I can actually see what I am typing, and
> only *once.*
Spyral, what wonderful news about your new glasses! It's exhilarating
to be able to see well when that has not been the case for some time,
as i recall.... perhaps one of the greater joys in life, for some of
us.
And good luck with your final test.
le...@omit.these.four.words.heathen.com
"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>May I suggest that you read My Sincerest Apology? I made a critical error
>in judgment. I have apologized for it! Any further flaming (delivered as a
>personal insult) will be considered downright abuse and will be immediately
>retaliated against! I wish this horrible waste of energy to stop! The
>lesson has been learned!
Here's another term for you to integrate into your vast repetoire:
Propagation delays.
This means that not everyone gets your post as the same time (or same
day, or sometimes same week). So your threats and posturing are once again
inappropriate and ludicrous, as well as a significant signpost illustrating
how intolerant and ignorant you are.
But if you need to flame someone, you might choose me. *grin* That
would be entertaining to everyone (except you, of course). I doubt
you would learn anything by the experience of use to us here.....
Leona Joy
who thinks that Curious may not have a clue as to the information he needs to
integrate successfully into .net culture.
--
The Lioness who kneels.
Lawless
Joy Hilbert wrote:
> Curious1 writes
> >Just an opinion from
> >some Dom with the build of a Greek God
> Bacchus, Ganymede or Haephestus?
Considered Haephestus myself, but despite his muscles and such - he was
only twisted on the outside. ;->
-- | In your head, no car is fast enough,
-- \_awless is : Chase Vogelsberg | In your heart, no love is true.
-- | Will it ruin all your solitary fancies
-- | If I tell you that it isn't only you?
-- A wolf by any other flame.... | -- Emma Bull
Lawless
Curious1 wrote:
> Not egotistical, just proud of the maintenance I do to keep my body in
> excellent shape, for myself and my partner. Insensitive, no! Shallow,
You don't -have- a partner, remember? You've been spending 10 months
looking for one, or so you claimed. So no, you're -not- maintaining
your body for your partner -- odds are that it's simply a narcisstic
form of masturbation. "Ooooh, look at those abs!" <wank wank>
> As far as sustaining a healthy and fulfilling long-term D/s relationship
> - I do that by rewarding my sub for making effort at taking good care,
Again - you don't -have- a sub, you're looking for one.
> It wasn't intended to be rude - just an inquiry! I was not doing it to
> put anyone down. We are all entitled to our preferences and opinions.
Not putting anyone down? You say elsewhere you don't think you were an
insulting little bastard - perhaps you think terms like "build of a small
heifer", "built like a _pig_", then of course you ask why the doms don't
MAKE their subs 'loose' their obesity - as though they're not Real(tm)
Doms if they don't. No putting anyone down there, no.
You also remarked that no one has stated their own slenderness or their
own preference for such in partners. I think you're wrong there, but,
well - I'm slender, and yes, I slenderness is generally attractive to
me. Doesn't mean I feel a need to slam people who aren't slender, as
you did. Personally though, I'd rather be dead than give up eatting
rich foods for a diet of sprouts and baked potatoes in order to be slim
or even healthy -- I can see why any number of others would similarly
enjoy such culinary pleasures, while not having an incredibly high
metabolism or desire to waste long hours in working out.
So yeah, you're entitled to your preferences and opinions - but if you
think you're entitled to be incredibly tactless, insensitive, and rude
in expressing them, expect lots of flak for it. It's your -attitude-
and your means of expression that got you flamed, not that you like
fit partners.
> I know what slim, physically fit people I have talked to are looking for
> and that is someone that is a complement in body type to their own, not
> a contrast!
In other words, you know what your peers (the narcisstic body-egotists)
want. Perhaps you should limit your search to your workout partners? If
you point out just how -good- their muscles will look when tied up in a
slavegirl outfit, they might just jump at the chance.
> Apparently! The question is why? Are you insecure about your body type
> (meaning wouldn't you rather be built height/weight proportionate)?
Again - some of us are very much HWP, and your posts still stand out as
particularly obnoxious. With your harping on insecurity about body type
and all, I can't help but wonder if that's not -your- hangup. Perhaps
you think you're ugly inside, so you compensate by working on what's on
your outside?
Try working on your personality and social skills instead, or god forbid
give your brain some exercise instead of your biceps.
> >>Just an opinion from some Dom with the build of a Greek God, looking
> >>for his Greek Goddess.
What I can't help wondering is -which- Greek God - Bracchus perhaps?
Or do you mistake Andrew Dice Clay for a god - you've got a real good
imitation of him down - rude and insensitive, then cry because people
didn't like you.
Dzur
On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 02:22:03 -0600, wu...@istar.ca wrote:
>In article <6gk0la$b...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
> "Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
<snip> Something fairly immature.
And Wulfie replies.... (for once fairly briefly)
>PS...not having Arnie's body did not prevent me from seeing the truth in what
>you posted, no apology required for speaking truth, Curious1...
Hmmm... if I didn't know this was a Wulf writing, I would have
guess it was a sheep.... he's flocking....
If anyone still wonders why Wulf is still alone and miserable
after such an extensive searh for his "little lamb" (hmmm... that
sheep theme again) now you know why.
Wulf, perhaps you should take up residence in one of the
sheepherding states... at least you would be warm at night.
- Dzur (trying hard to get back on Wulf's list because he likes
the company there)
Hamlet the Dane
hamlet here.
Mure` wrote:
> It suddenly occurs to me that there are always huge debates and loads of
> responses to those posts where someone (usually a guy or one pretending
> to be a woman), can't have or find what he is after!
> Humm?
Actually, I find that the posts that generate the most inflamed traffic
are those that are easy pickings. Few seem to be able to resist the
poster who is truly a clueless newbie.
Now, a lot of regulars ought to know better. Or maybe they enjoy flaming
so much--it gives them an opportunity to trot out their best bombastic
rhetoric. If I were new to this group this past couple of days, I'd get
a very skewed picture of the active posters here. An unfair one, perhaps,
but fair don't matter squat if the perception has already taken hold.
What I'd like to see is regulars "flaming" stuff that is *not* so obvious,
taking to task posts that have something *subtly* wrong with them. A post
that most people might look at and say, "hey, that's pretty sharp," but
someone with an extra bit of assiduousness takes a closer look, and pulls
it apart. I've seen it happen before, and *that's* engaging. Maybe not
as entertaining for some as drawing and quartering the newbie, but rest
assured, someone will *always* be happy to do that. One needn't worry
that the job will go unfinished, this post notwithstanding.
As always, you can expect me to practice what I preach. Or try to, at
least. :)
{hamlet}Ophelia
Comments to hamlet at isi dot edu
Web page at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/9020/
* Warm fuzzies to the first 100 visitors!
le...@omit.these.four.words.heathen.com
"Curious1" <xan...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>That one can use for this group? I have apologized, twice now! I wish for
>the immature, childish name-calling to stop. Aren't we all adults here? The
>lesson has been learned.
Some of us are.
What lesson has been learned? By whom?
Frankly, I see nothing that would lead me to believe that your
attitude has shifted in the slightest.
Perhaps you'd be kind enough to help me understand what revelations
and apologies you refer to in the "apology" above?
Leona Joy
YourSAS
Wulf (wu...@istar.ca) wrote IRT the "apology" issued
by Curious1:
<snippage>
>so understand that those who seek to 'rule' ssbb
> through fear and harassment are most likely trying
> to succeed at _something_ in their lives and this is a
>sign of how desperate they are to feel like a "somebody"
hmm ... seek to rule ssbb through harassment? Sign of
desperation to feel like a "somebody?" You mean like
incessantly posting lengthy and repetitious threads that
focus on yourself? Like how abused you are; how
important your opinions and ideas are, so much so that
any support for them automatically results in flames?
>PS...not having Arnie's body did not prevent me from
> seeing the truth in what you posted, no apology
> required for speaking truth, Curious1...
Frick & Frack, you guys oughta take your show on
the road, you know. Most anyone who has lived beyond
adolescence understands that there are relatively few
absolute truths in this life. And you two seem to have
an unshakeable and incredibly self-centered belief that
what you think and believe is superior to any thoughts
or beliefs held by other people that are contrary to
your own.
Curious1 could have presented his survey without once
using words like "heifer" or "barge" had he had an ounce
of sensitivity residing within his Adonis-like body. That
he can't even now see that his error was in his method
of presentation demonstrates his total stupidity in not
having learned the most basic of social skills and graces.
But then, what do you know of grace, a man who posts
personal email in a newsgroup?
>be the duck and let them be the water...no matter
> how turbulent the water gets: you have the ability
>to rise above it...
unless, of course, you drown first in your own stupidity
and stubborn refusal to recognize that others may actually
have something to teach you, and your inability to open
your eyes to this realization ultimately causes you to
sink like a rock to the bottom of the pond.
jackie (you...@aol.com)
YourSAS
Curious1 <xan...@worldnet.att.net> writes in part:
>This group will have to practice and exercise
> forgiveness for those who have sincerely apologized
> before I will consider them the quality of people I will
>associate and perhaps even someday - identify with.
I would like to suggest to you that it is your approach
that continues to get you in hot water. Stop just a minute
and think how something might be perceived before
you say it.
For instance, in the above you say, "This group
will have to ... " To tell a huge group of people that they
*have to* do something before *you* will consider them
anything, is presumptuous and demanding. What if
you'd said instead, "I sincerely offer my apology for
any insensitivity I displayed, and hope that the group
will forgive and forget. I still have much to learn in life,
and would like to be able to participate in a quality
exchange of ideas with the people who post here."
See the difference?
jackie (you...@aol.com)
posted and mailed
Tinnekke Bebout
On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Curious1 wrote:
Excuse me, after all the bruhaha and general mayhem of the reulting insult
exchange, is there any particular reason why the inflammatory posts are
being repeated on here or is this just my NNTP server playing with me
again?
> I am really curious as to why there are so many overweight and downright
> obese people into the scene? It would seem to me that any Master would much
> more prefer a slender, fit (and in the case of female subs) a voluptuous
> body, over that of someone with the build of a small heifer!
>
> I have been in the scene - off and on - for 20 years and it seems that the
> ratio of downright fat people is always around 80% / 20%, with only twenty
> percent (or less) being in excellent physical condition. I am a Dom myself,
> but have never (and would never) consider taking on a new sub that was more
> than 15lbs overweight and she would loose that in short order as my slave,
> let me tell you. Being overweigh is unhealthy and (to those of us Masters
> that work very hard to keep our own weigh within 5 pounds of ideal) -
> downright disgusting. I have been searching for a partner for over 10 months
> now and only 2 out of 40+ contenders have been built like a pig, even though
> my ads always mention that I am looking for someone physically fit. I think
> these women suffer from the same thing us guys do - they see the words "Dom,
> Male, Attractive and Physically Fit" and wanting a Master like that - become
> "blind" to the rest of the criteria and go ahead and respond to someone with
> a gorgeous figure. Why would they do that when they can't even take care for
> their own. I know this happens with "Sub, Fem, Attractive and Fit" women,
> as far as getting some fat guy sending her his picture. What is wrong with
> people? LOOSE THE FAT! No one really wants an obese person on top of them,
> or under them for that matter, when the option is someone with a beautiful
> figure, be that masculine, or feminine.
>
> My question to Doms is - why don't you MAKE your subs loose their "obese"
> status?
>
> It's what all Doms want - to have a sub with a beautiful physique. Just do
> something about it! I'd wager that if every fat sub where to be overlooked,
> at all times - that there would be allot less fat people into the scene,
> because no one that is slender and fit - wants a fat partner. That goes for
> both Doms looking for subs and subs looking for Doms. Just an opinion from
> some Dom with the build of a Greek God, looking for his Greek Goddess.
>
>
>
>
-Tink
A soul in tension that's learning to fly
Condition grounded but determined to try
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I
Tinnekke Bebout
Everyone loves you Fnordy, didn't you know that? *smooch*
Joy Hilbert
Curious1 <xan...@worldnet.att.net> writes
>Not egotistical, just proud of the maintenance I do to keep my body in
>your definitions perhaps! As far as sustaining a healthy and fulfilling
>long-term D/s relationship - I do that by rewarding my sub for making effort
You mean that's all there is? I suppose if that's your kink,
YKIOKIJNMK, but why assume we all share a fetish for food deprivation?
>
>Because I have not found a "quality" one yet. You know - one capable of
>contributing as much as I have to offer?
What do you have to offer? Are you looking for a female slave? Why
would even the thinnest woman risk getting involved with a man who would
reject her if she became plump in middle age, or as a result of
pregnancy?
>
>Mainly because I am sick and tired of obese women responding to my ads,
>telling me they are fit! Maybe the "i" key has been switched with the "a"
>key on their keyboards, or they are just dreamers, or dillusional?
>
You seem to be living in the past. I do not want to start another flame
war on the subject here, but there is increasing evidence that it is
good eating and enough exercise, rather than reaching a particular
number on a scale, that leads to fitness and health.
The women who answered your ad were being honest: they are fit and fat.
If you want someone skinny, you should say what you mean, and not
mislead potential respondents by saying "fit".
>>
>I know what slim, physically fit people I have talked to are looking for and
>that is someone that is a complement in body type to their own, not a
>contrast!
Anthony is a slim physically fit person, and he wants an adoring slave
with whom he can have interesting conversations and good chemistry. So
that's one data point against you.
>
>Apparently! The question is why? Are you insecure about your body type
>(meaning wouldn't you rather be built height/weight proportionate)?
>
What a meaningless expression. Who gets to define it?
You have my sympathy.
--
Joy Hilbert
Joy Hilbert
Curious1 <xan...@worldnet.att.net> writes
>Thank you Kestrel! I know I was wrong and I have apologized. I just hope
>that the others can drop it now that I have realized my mistake.
> Otherwise - I will wear them down, one at a time, until they no longer give
>a shit and will be happy just to never hear another word from me. I am an
>unbeatable adversary in war (historically) and I have all of the energy in
>the world to do battle.
Or, to put it another way, a troll.
--
Joy Hilbert