A Submissive's Frustration
cerina
relationship. I had no idea these needs could be placed in a category
and labeled D/s. When I discovered this, it seemed so wonderful to
finally have support and perhaps some answers. Now, some years later,
I find that this is more like work. It isn't about just being who I
am. Now, I have to be a sub or a slave or a bottom. Now, I must
choose from a Top, Dom, or Master. The new relationship I'm in seems
to be getting lost under bdsm checklists and will my kink be enough to
satisfy his kink? Will he be able to be monogamous or will I have to
allow others in at some point? I'm getting lost under all the
sex...the bdsm. Pain, humiliation, servitude, and submission. This
seems to come so easily for everyone else. Everyone I run into is
just so "blissful" in their submission/slavery and they never seem to
have any doubts whether they are truly happy or being satisfied. I
feel like i'm in a bdsm version of The Stepford Wives. I'm not
finding this easy. I'm finding it difficult to constantly be
scrutinized regarding my words, actions, and sexual desires. Am I
alone? Please do not say this isn't for me. I cannot change who I am.
This was never a choice. I am simply wondering if anyone else feels
overwhelmed by the expectations and if they have any advice. Thank
you so much for your time.
cerina
SilverOz
cerina <ceri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I knew years and years ago what I wanted and needed from a
>relationship. I had no idea these needs could be placed in a category
>and labeled D/s. When I discovered this, it seemed so wonderful to
>finally have support and perhaps some answers. Now, some years later,
>I find that this is more like work. It isn't about just being who I
>am. Now, I have to be a sub or a slave or a bottom. Now, I must
>choose from a Top, Dom, or Master. The new relationship I'm in seems
You do? You sure?
I'm a Zebee. I worked out what I wanted, and what I could give, and
looked for the complement.
And when I found it, I found that the checklist I had didn't fit, but
the man did... At least enough for it to be worthwhile.
>allow others in at some point? I'm getting lost under all the
>sex...the bdsm. Pain, humiliation, servitude, and submission. This
>seems to come so easily for everyone else. Everyone I run into is
>just so "blissful" in their submission/slavery and they never seem to
>have any doubts whether they are truly happy or being satisfied. I
And maybe some of them aren't as blissful as they seem?
I get the shits with Peter. I have been hurt by him, I've hurt him.
I've not wanted to do BDSm with him, I've needed to and he hasn't
wanted to. We've banged heads, we've tried things that one or the
other wanted and had it fail dismally. We've run into serious
problems, some of which we haven't been able to solve.
Problem free? No way! Worth working for? Definitely.
>feel like i'm in a bdsm version of The Stepford Wives. I'm not
>finding this easy. I'm finding it difficult to constantly be
>scrutinized regarding my words, actions, and sexual desires. Am I
>alone? Please do not say this isn't for me. I cannot change who I am.
>This was never a choice. I am simply wondering if anyone else feels
>overwhelmed by the expectations and if they have any advice. Thank
>you so much for your time.
>
I found that lots of people had expectations of me as a BDSM partner
that they wouldn't think of with a non-BDSm one.
I found that all I could do was talk and make friends. Get to know
people until the chemistry said "I could be with this person without
BDSM" and then we talked more about BDSM and what we wanted, and tried
it out.
Until I met Peter and we had it working, that approach yielded some
fun times and some not fun times and the relationships just didn't
gel.
I did learn more about what I wanted. I knew I didn't want a painplay
based relationship, that is one where flogging and such were the main
form of expression. (Pain is a common tool with Peter, but it's not
the focus, it's an expression of dominance.)
What I found was that if the chemistry and underlying friendship was
there, that I could fit in withthe kinks. That while I dont get
anywhere near enough bondage, I get enough. He doesn't get anywhere
near enough control, he gets enough. And so on.
I've learned to avoid men with checklists, and who aren't into finding
out about me first. Same as I avoid talking kink withthem till we've
got a feel for how we go together.
I know a lot of people who are gushing about how wonderful their
relationship is. Funny, lots of them are with someone else a year
later. I suspect that once the New RElationship Energy dies down, the
fantasy has to become reality, and they didn't do enough groundwork.
I have fallen in love with a fantasy. When the real man started to
appear, I had trouble dealing. The fantasy was so hot! I hope I've
learned from that.
SilverOz
NrrdGrrl
news:d41bcc88.01082...@posting.google.com...
> I knew years and years ago what I wanted and needed from a
> relationship. I had no idea these needs could be placed in a category
> and labeled D/s. When I discovered this, it seemed so wonderful to
> finally have support and perhaps some answers. Now, some years later,
> I find that this is more like work. It isn't about just being who I
> am. Now, I have to be a sub or a slave or a bottom. Now, I must
> choose from a Top, Dom, or Master. The new relationship I'm in seems
> to be getting lost under bdsm checklists and will my kink be enough to
> satisfy his kink? Will he be able to be monogamous or will I have to
> allow others in at some point? I'm getting lost under all the
> sex...the bdsm. Pain, humiliation, servitude, and submission.
Just like marriage, cars, and pizza, each of us likes to have WIITWD their
own way. One person likes to be a slave, one likes to be a sub, and that
person over there may refer to himself as a Snookums and heaven only knows
what he means by that, but he seems to be having a good time... There isn't
any One Single Right Way to do it -- in fact, if you come across someone who
says Their Way Is The Only Proper Way, run fast in the other direction! The
checklists and things are just a shortcut to communication, which is the way
you find out what you and your Significant One (or however many) want to do,
and if you want to do it the same way.
> This
> seems to come so easily for everyone else. Everyone I run into is
> just so "blissful" in their submission/slavery and they never seem to
> have any doubts whether they are truly happy or being satisfied. I
> feel like i'm in a bdsm version of The Stepford Wives.
That's how they seem to you; to them, *you* may seem like the Girl Who's Got
It All. Most people have dissatisfactions and frustrations of various kinds;
many keep it to themselves.
> I'm not
> finding this easy. I'm finding it difficult to constantly be
> scrutinized regarding my words, actions, and sexual desires. Am I
> alone? Please do not say this isn't for me. I cannot change who I am.
> This was never a choice. I am simply wondering if anyone else feels
> overwhelmed by the expectations and if they have any advice. Thank
> you so much for your time.
Ignore expectations. Others' opinions of your words, actions and sexual
desires aren't important unless they're directly effected by them. If you
like being micromanaged, find a top (or dom or master or snookums) who likes
to do that; if you don't, avoid them and find one who's more interested in
letting you do things your way. All that's important is that you know how to
do what you're doing in a way that will allow you to keep doing it safely
and happily for as long as you like (a good book, like John Warren's "The
Loving Dominant" or Jay Wiseman's "SM 101" can be a big help) and that you
and the person you're with are in agreement on what it is that you want to
do.
And have FUN!
NG
BLDRNRpdx
>Now, I have to be a sub or a slave or a bottom. Now, I must
>choose from a Top, Dom, or Master.
Says who?
>Will he be able to be monogamous or will I have to
>allow others in at some point?
That would seem to be between the two of you.
>This seems to come so easily for everyone else.
>snort, giggle< Sorry. That wasn't a personal comment. Just a definite "no,
it's not coming all that easily to all of us" observation. Some of us do try
to present with a positive attitude, however, and save the whining and
complaining for our partners. (I *looove* you Daddy <g>)
>Please do not say this isn't for me. I cannot change who I am.
Good for you. As it should be.
>I am simply wondering if anyone else feels
>overwhelmed by the expectations and if they have any advice.
Stick to who you are (though one can rarely do enough self-examination - and
who knows? maybe there are things you want to change. but do them for *you*).
Stick to what you want and need (though one can rarely do enough
self-examination, yadda yadda yadda)
Don't take everyone else too seriously.
Realize that "perfect" is bloody unlikely, but "plenty good enough" ain't half
bad.
Find a support system. SSBB might be a good place for that. A RT support
system might be helpful too. If you don't already have friends to share with,
you might try local BDSM educational/support/social groups.
Don't forget to take a deep breath once in a while.
Bladerunner
KATS: Kidz & Adultz Together Sharing, an Ageplay group
http://www.katspdx.com
Metal Fem
cerina wrote:
> This
> seems to come so easily for everyone else. Everyone I run into is
> just so "blissful" in their submission/slavery and they never seem to
> have any doubts whether they are truly happy or being satisfied.
I think I am truly happy but it hasn't come easily, and there are
moments when it is not at all blissful.
People don't tend to post stuff like "geez, I've had a nothing kind of
week and my partner is busy doing other stuff and this scene we did
didn't really fire, and I feel irritable and bored".
If others are anything like me they don't like being a whiner or letting
the world see the dull aggravating bits anyway. I think it's a similar
sort of thing to the reason why Opera Highlights CDs sell, but Opera
Dull Boring Bits CDs don't.
Also, the motivation to write or talk about one's relationship is a lot
higher when there's a shit-scary problem or it's all new and energising
and exciting. Otherwise people tend to talk about their flogging
technique, or fart research or whatever.
So, just because you don't see people post about those imperfect bits of
their lives, doesn't mean that the availble options are crashed and
burned relationships on the one hand or smiling stepford robo-subs on
the other.
Which reminds me, speaking of stepford robo-subs, what does a groupie
have to do to encourage Slackie to post more of his fiction?
Mf
T. Eckhart
I'd say that if you feel overwhelmed it is time to assess the
relationship -- do that out of your Ds roles.
Second, take time to figure out what you really want. You said
above that "I knew years and years ago what I wanted and needed from a
>relationship. I had no idea these needs could be placed in a category
>and labeled D/s." it sounds more like you discovered that Ds could work
but not that you discovered you were submissive. There is a big
difference here.
What you may discover is that you want some aspects of a Ds
relationship and not others. That is perfectly fine but it means finding
someone own needs and desire are compatible with yours.
Third you may discover that your ideas about Ds are different from
your dominant's. It can be a mild or a serious difference but any
difference means both have to compromise if you want to continue that
relationship.
And finally try to figure out why you feel "I'm finding it
difficult to constantly be scrutinized regarding my words, actions, and
sexual desires." Is it your partner who does this, is it other people
in your community, or is it you?
--
--
Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips, & Chains,
TammyJo Eckhart (teck...@kiva.net)
Author, Activist, Educator
Spyral Fox
ceri...@hotmail.com (cerina) writes:
> It isn't about just being who I
>am. Now, I have to be a sub or a slave or a bottom. Now, I must
>choose from a Top, Dom, or Master.
Well, if that's what YOU need to do, that's fine. Personally, for *me*
it IS all about being who I am -- exactly who *I* am without a little
box around me that says "submissive." Now, I do label myself, I
usually use that particular label... but I'm more often going to say
"sexually submissive." Outside of my relationships I am a boss,
a macher, an expert, a trainer and a crafter. [1] I'm lots of other stuff,
too. So what I want in an Owner (to use a short label referring to
only the relationship stuff) is also a whole bunch of other labels.
This isn't an Lego's part thing to me where I could be interchanged
with any other submissive or accept any owner as a perfect fit.
I've got a whole long laundry list of other qualities besides dominance
that a potential owner would need to have (and to NOT have) before
I'd even consider that person as a possibility. For example, there's
one person who I know who's got almost everything... but he's much
more sadistic than I want in a partner, and he also wants kids and
is poly. Three strikes, he's out -- for *me.* [2]
[...]
>Everyone I run into is
>just so "blissful" in their submission/slavery and they never seem to
>have any doubts whether they are truly happy or being satisfied. I
>feel like i'm in a bdsm version of The Stepford Wives. I'm not
>finding this easy. I'm finding it difficult to constantly be
>scrutinized regarding my words, actions, and sexual desires. Am I
>alone?
Nope. Pay close attention to who you do NOT see. You won't
see the people like me who are being picky about their next
relationships, and therefore are not in one. You won't see many
people who don't casually play (with anyone) in settings where
play is implicit. You'll see that some people are deeply in denial
because it's more important for them to be in a relationship (any
relationship) than to get out and get one that meets their needs
better. It's the same as with the standard vanilla couple -- if you
look around and want a relationship, it might seem that everyone
but you has one... but if you ask around, you'll discover that you're
not seeing everyone, just the most obvious people. If you're seeing
them socially, you'll discover that partnered people go out more,
and happily partnered people are more likely to brag about how
great their partner is. Only really tacky people who are burning
their bridges will say rotten things about their partner. The same
sort of thing, in miniature, applies here... people like me who don't
have a partner to brag about aren't saying much, while people who
just were involved in a mind-blowing scene are likely to talk about
the details.
[1] boss -- I run anything up to 15 employees in circles
macher -- a yiddish word for a person who makes stuff happen
expert -- ask me anything about ethology or physiology; if
I don't know, I can find out
trainer -- of animals, children, etc
crafter -- cross-stitch, applique, quilting....
[2] if anyone wants to meet Mongol, let me know -- as he's
trying to set me up, I think I should return the favor.
- - Spyral Fox
SSBB Diplomatic Corps member & Depooty Charter Enforcer (CLG)
San Diego's Migratory Munch is back!
Resource Page: http://members.aol.com/spyralfox/index.html
SSBB Cookbook: http://members.aol.com/ssbbcooks/
BobP
>From: ze...@zip.com.au (SilverOz)
-- and --
>cerina <ceri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
c sez
SNIP . It isn't about just being who I
>>am. Now, I have to be a sub or a slave or a bottom. Now, I must
>>choose from a Top, Dom, or Master. The new relationship I'm in seems
>
Z sez
>You do? You sure?
>
>I'm a Zebee. I worked out what I wanted, and what I could give, and
>looked for the complement.
>
>And when I found it, I found that the checklist I had didn't fit, but
>the man did... At least enough for it to be worthwhile.
BobP
Any man will fit if you use enough lube and push hard enough...
More responsively -- to cerina -- no,you really don't. The words don't define
us, we define the words!
If the names and labels and all are helpful in describing WIITWD to somebody
else, and each other, then they are useful. But don't let 'em in your head to
stuff your "self" into their boxes.
Zebbee sez this better than anybody I've read (re-read the post I've snipped,
and engage Zebbee in long threads/conversations -- a worthwhile endeavor), but
I am an intrusive ^$*&(^$( and can't resist trying to stick my oar in, too!
The primary thing that matters is who *you* say you are. Secondarily, is who
your partner thinks you are! Of no importance at all is what some random
selection of geniuses and fools (NOT Fooles!) who call themselves "The BDSM
Community" think you ought to be.
Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to Go Fly A Kite. Many of us here
have learned to do that with the obvious Mrs. Grundys of the world -- many of
us are still struggling with the ones who wear leather and steel (or nothing!)
and try to enforce a kinkier orthodoxy...
BobP,
Who confirms RAW's statement that everybody in this novel looks like Pavlov's
dog, seen from one angle. Look from another angle, and you see Schrodinger's
Cat...
Philip the Foole
Mongol is also a mighty bright guy and a *really* good chef. As for
being sadistic, he once held up his end of a dinner conversation on
favorite torture techniques with Margaret Morecock. If he was bi, he'd
be perfect.
Your Humble Jester,
Philip the Foole
cerina
much you helped me...and perhaps prevented any further pulling out of
hair. I want so much for this new relationship to work that I think
I've lost site of remaining true to myself. Being able to put my
frustration in writing and then receive your support and advice was
fabulous and very therapeutic. *smooches to all*
The Dom in question had a very long talk with me about my feelings and
fears. I think I may be calm now and ready to focus on what is really
important here. We care very deeply for one another first, we can
freak out over the bdsm aspect later.
Thank you again!!!
Cerina
TyMeDwn1st
> [ ... ] people like me who don't
>have a partner to brag about aren't saying much, while people who
>just were involved in a mind-blowing scene are likely to talk about
>the details.
And there are people like me: partnered, play only privately, very seldom talk
about specific scenes or events.
Ty
Who is mostly just
a slightly skewed
Donna Reed
Take a moment to do a good deed ~~~> http://www.quickdonations.com
Thorney
TyMeDwn1st wrote:
> And there are people like me: partnered, play only privately, very seldom talk
> about specific scenes or events.
And people like me: happily married, play privately, and have
finally found here a place to do the kind of bragging that my friends
did as adolescents but I was too 'good' for when I was the appropriate
age. There is no need to give up certain childhood or adolescent
fantasies or pleasures, and no need to conform to anyone else's version
of them, either.
Thorney
------------
A few of my past posts are at
http://www.geocities.com/Thorney1z/stories.html
Psyfuru
I can't support PtF here. Dunno as to the sad and poly parts, but as to the
kids' part (not talking bio, but just being a parent), kids are awful. Don't
have(adopt) kids. They take over *al*l [Oops, I mean *all*] computer access,
filling it with glutty commercial graphic/audio stuff. Any music you want to
grab, they can grab it for you, any CD you need burned, they have it. They
think they are sooo knowledgeable. But, they are not. Any adult can do the
same thing kids can do, with some training.
Take things slow, and watch what they do, and do what they do--you'll be fine.
f
[One caution: once you got kids, you can't get rid of them; even if you and
your partner are no longer together, you both still have your kids.]
Philip the Foole
Oh sure. *Now* you tell me.
John Warren
news:20010829234409...@mb-mg.aol.com...
> [One caution: once you got kids, you can't get rid of them; even if you
and
> your partner are no longer together, you both still have your kids.]
They are a handy source of protein during famines
[this from a guy who had a vasectomy in his 20's]
--
Diversified Services (Toys, Books and Videos for the Scene since 1992)
www.diversified--services.com & www.sensualexplorations.com
New items added 8/29 Juice is BACK
TyMeDwn1st
>[One caution: once you got kids, you can't get rid of them; even if you and
>your partner are no longer together, you both still have your kids.]
It's worse than that. Even when they're so old they're no longer kids,
they're still YOUR kids.
Cathbodua
>>allow others in at some point? I'm getting lost under all the
>>sex...the bdsm. Pain, humiliation, servitude, and submission. This
>>seems to come so easily for everyone else. Everyone I run into is
>>just so "blissful" in their submission/slavery and they never seem to
>>have any doubts whether they are truly happy or being satisfied. I
>
>And maybe some of them aren't as blissful as they seem?
Bingo. Listen to the Zebee, for she is wise. The slave who never has any
doubts, and just adores herhis relationship and it's all easy, and s/he never
wonders what the hell s/he's doing this for, s/he is either stoned or wants you
to think s/he is very, very cool. Being the really happy sub can be a BIG power
trip.
>
>>feel like i'm in a bdsm version of The Stepford Wives. I'm not
>>finding this easy. I'm finding it difficult to constantly be
>>scrutinized regarding my words, actions, and sexual desires. Am I
>>alone? Please do not say this isn't for me. I cannot change who I am.
>>This was never a choice. I am simply wondering if anyone else feels
>>overwhelmed by the expectations and if they have any advice. Thank
>>you so much for your time.
Only you know if it's for you. Only thing I would dare to say is, if you feel
like a Stepford Sub, this particular relationship/style/dynamic, whatever, will
have to be changed if it's going to be for you. If you feel bad, something is
wrong. It doesn't mean being a sub is not going to work out, just that you may
need to find a different, better for you, way of doing it, so you get the fun
stuff.
If you decide to become a lesbian, some folks will pressure you to cut your
hair and dress butch and worship the moon. Some women take to that like ducks
to water. Others stand there in their pastel jogging suits, plaintively
murmuring that all they really wanted was to go down on their roommate, they
don't want any more earrings...
Being someone you ain't should NEVER be the price of getting the kind of
sex/love/goodstuff that turns your crank. Flat out.
Much love,
Charlotte
SilverOz
Cathbodua <cath...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Subject: Re: A Submissive's Frustration
>>From: ze...@zip.com.au (SilverOz)
>>Date: Tue, Aug 28, 2001 10:45 PM
>
>
>>>allow others in at some point? I'm getting lost under all the
>>>sex...the bdsm. Pain, humiliation, servitude, and submission. This
>>>seems to come so easily for everyone else. Everyone I run into is
>>>just so "blissful" in their submission/slavery and they never seem to
>>>have any doubts whether they are truly happy or being satisfied. I
>>
>>And maybe some of them aren't as blissful as they seem?
>
>Bingo. Listen to the Zebee, for she is wise. The slave who never has any
>doubts, and just adores herhis relationship and it's all easy, and s/he never
>wonders what the hell s/he's doing this for, s/he is either stoned or wants you
>to think s/he is very, very cool. Being the really happy sub can be a BIG power
>trip.
>
Or else is new...
New Relationship Energy can hide a lot of things!
I think that a non-trivial number of people are also not relating to a
person, but a construct in their heads.
This seems especially true of those who do most of their relating
online in role.
Everyone does it to some extent of course, adjusting to the person not
the fantasy can be hard work, but it has to be done.
I've been really into a guy who was my fantasy in looks and behaviour.
Took a while to realise he was human, took longer to admit it. And
even then, the admission to others was very much "oh he has some
drawbacks, but on the whole it's great" because that's what I was
telling myself.
SilverOz
Richard Shetron
individual. The labels we use, top, bottom, sub, slave, dom, master, top
are all pretty generic. You may not be a sub, bottom, slave. You may
have some characteristics of some and some from others and maybe some
from none of the above. I've seen some couples that are almost pure
Master/slave and almost never do any physical bdsm play, its all verbal.
I've often said I'm a submissive sadist looking for a dominant masochist;)
I'm not a real Dom/Master type, but I am a Sadist. I don't get off that
much with being called Sir, Master, etc. Sometimes I think I should look
for a masochist into self torture who would like to have a helper/safety
person to watch and help if things go wrong.
You might want to take a quiet time to sit down, take a deep breath and
start making a list of things you like and another list of things you
don't like. Instead of writing down sub, write down the attributes of a
sub you like, if there are any. Some people are more into verbal play,
others more into physical. Do you like calling your partner Sir, Master,
Boss, Tom, Dick, Harry or is that not of interest. Try to break things
down to the most basic elements. Take a few days, take a couple weeks.
Take a few minutes every now and then to work on the lists. Make more
then two lists if you need to. Maybe rank things on the lists.
In article <d41bcc88.01082...@posting.google.com>,
cerina <ceri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>cerina
--
Richard Shetron mul...@ruserved.com mul...@acm.rpi.edu NO UCE
LEGAL NOTICE:Sender of UCE to this address agrees to pay me $500/email
plus any and all costs of colleciton.
Stephanie
no...@multics.ruserved.com (Richard Shetron) wrote:
> I've often said I'm a submissive sadist looking
> for a dominant masochist;) I'm not a real
> Dom/Master type, but I am a Sadist. I don't
> get off that much with being called Sir,
> Master, etc. Sometimes I think I should look
> for a masochist into self torture who would
> like to have a helper/safety person to watch
> and help if things go wrong.
It's definitely possible to find such a relationship. That's how things
go between my husband and I lately. We've pretty much gone through
every permutation of dom/sub/master/slave/top/bottom/sadist/masochist
that we could imagine.
I've taken a lot of flack about it from some folks who knew that we
started out with a 24/7 (by our definition) master/slave type thing, but
_we're_ sure having fun.
Stephanie
Robin Lawrie
> I've taken a lot of flack about it from some folks who knew that we
started out with a 24/7 (by our definition) master/slave type thing, but
_we're_ sure having fun.
Ah! Someone with a Good Attitude <g>. Cool.
Robin
cerina
> start making a list of things you like and another list of things you
> don't like. Instead of writing down sub, write down the attributes of a
> sub you like, if there are any. Some people are more into verbal play,
> others more into physical. Do you like calling your partner Sir, Master,
> Boss, Tom, Dick, Harry or is that not of interest. Try to break things
> down to the most basic elements. Take a few days, take a couple weeks.
> Take a few minutes every now and then to work on the lists. Make more
> then two lists if you need to. Maybe rank things on the lists.
I like this suggestion a great deal. Thank you. Perhaps it is time to
rethink exactly what it is I want from a D/s relationship. I've
allowed too many outside influences to push me in different
directions. It is all too easy to be swayed by others views and
opinions sometimes.
SilverOz
And I suggest you spend at least as much time on feelings as on
actions.
Not just "I want to wear a collar" but "I want a reminder of the
relationship, one that affects both of us".
"I want to feel submissive in scene, but I prefer to have the D&S
mostly on the back burner in day to day life. Just flaring up when we
re alone and both feel right".
Things like that.
I find that most of what I want in D&S is as much feelings as actions.
And thinking about feelings made me realise important things about
actions.
For example, I like bondage, but I find that it's what the bondage
*represents*. Some people like the feeling of restriction, and so do
I, but it has to be restriction with a purpose, and I have to feel my
partner wants that restriction to happen.
So just being tied up isn't good, it has to be "tied up for a reason",
that reason being control.
SilverOz
--
========================================================================
Interested in Hypnosis?
http://www.master.webcentral.com.au/peter_masters/
====
Australian BDSM Information http://www.master.webcentral.com.au/abis/
========================================================================
iam4Her
hi cerina.
Understand that a bdsm relationship can be in many different
ways is the first step to comfort and joy.
Either you are searching for a 24/7 relationship where servitude, pain,
humiliation a.s.o. is a normal part of it, or maybe just a relationship
that is centered around the bedroomgames or weekened play.
you have to learn yourself and try to understand what you are searching for.
A good Master wants his property to grow and be more valuable. He will make
sure that you will have a life that is content without stress. But only
through your honesty and openess with Him will he know your true needs and
limits.
Who wants to Own a sub that is not content ?
My personal opinion is of course shown here where it comes to what i think
is good or bad.
i believe that a good bdsm relationship is based around a two-way system,
where the subs gives servitute and unquestioned obedience, and in return the
Master/Mistress gives guidance, mental support and caring.
Some of the magic in this lifestyle is actually about putting the
Master/Mistress needs infront of your own.
Several subs? well it is though quit normal for Masters and Mistresses to
have several subs.
But if The Master/Mistress, has built up enough confidence and love in you
jealousy shouldnt occur.
If you are looking for 24/7, you must understand that it is a very different
lifestyle, but it is really fantastic.
Only you know which life you are searching for, some people need just a
bdsm relationship that is based around a Master /Mistress that doesnt give
much back in return, and that is right for them.
If you know who you are, then, you probably also know what kind of
Master you are looking for.
w/We all are different. There is no single answer that can be given to you,
in this lifestyle each finds her/his own path with the love and the magic
that occurs between the submissive and the Dom/me. Never settle for less
than the magic.
Please feel free to email me private if you have any questions
Best Regards
iam4Her
proud property of
Mistress Marlene
www.themistress.addr.com
SilverOz
iam4Her <ris...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>hi cerina.
>
>Understand that a bdsm relationship can be in many different
>ways is the first step to comfort and joy.
>Either you are searching for a 24/7 relationship where servitude, pain,
>humiliation a.s.o. is a normal part of it, or maybe just a relationship
>that is centered around the bedroomgames or weekened play.
Or maybe something in between, or that doesn't have the things in it
other people's things do.
That's the bloody hard part I found! When you think BDSM
relationships come in neat understandable packets "24/7, tick" then it
looks easy, you just go to McDoms and get the package you like best.
But then you find the labels don't mean the same thing, that person A
does "24/7" and means something completely different to person B, that
some folk are certain pain is a main part, or punishment or leather or
collaring ceremonies or control or humiliation or service, and even if
they agree on those, they seem to disagree on what they are!
Damn it's hard to make your way in all that.
It's a trackless wilderness, a chaotic mess of stuff.
Major thing I found was that when something was right for me, there
was no "just" about it.
If I go and locate and buy a CD for Peter, that's not "just get him a
CD". If we meet in town and we just turn and go where he wants,
that's not "just going where he wants". If we do mild pain, that's
not "just mild pain". Took me a while to get out of the "bigger is
better" mindset, the heirarchical thing where you have "kinky sex" on
the bottom and "slavery" or "heavy painplay" at the top.
Mainly cos it took me a while to realise that BDSM is not at all neat
and orderly. There's no clear path, no certifying body, no ranks, no
progression, jsut people doing what works and sometimes trying to
impose order where none exists.
I was really pissed off when I realised that. Dammit, I wanted
progress, I wanted status, I wanted to know I was doing it right!
Eventually I figured out how to tell I was doing it right. I was
getting what I needed.
And of course in the middle of it all, what I needed kept changing,
most inconsiderate of it.
SilverOz
lizw...@mailandnews.com
> Several subs? well it is though quit normal for Masters and Mistresses to
> have several subs.
>
> But if The Master/Mistress, has built up enough confidence and love in
> you jealousy shouldnt occur.
Uh... I don't think feelings are quite that obedient to
whether people think they "should" or "shouldn't" be
happening, or quite as straightforward as "if X, then
not-Y".
"If your Master/Mistress had built up enough confidence and
love in you, you wouldn't be jealous" makes about as little
sense to me as "If your Master/Mistress really loved you,
he/she wouldn't need to play with anyone else".
Firstly, some people are only comfortable in a poly
relationship set-up, some are only comfortable in a
monogamous one, some can be comfortable in either. Telling
people who have a strong preference for one or the other
that they would feel differently if only they loved their
partner more, or if only their partner loved them more,
strikes me as way over-simplistic; it assumes that the
same recipe will work for everyone. Why should it?
Secondly, even people who are poly through-and-through
experience jealousy sometimes; often there are particular
situations that trigger it which one can learn to work
around. alt.polyamory is a good source of anecdotal
supporting evidence (and advice, if wanted) on this one.
For some people it's "I feel jealous if I hear you playing
with someone else when I'm on my own", for others it's "I
feel jealous if you cancel a date with me to spend time with
another partner without good reason", or any number of other
things. I don't think having those feelings implies any
failing on the part of oneself or one's partner.
Liz
--
My mind is ruled by logic and rails at paradox. My heart,
though, is unbothered. - Angi Long of House Windstalker
cerina
> relationships come in neat understandable packets "24/7, tick" then it
> looks easy, you just go to McDoms and get the package you like best.
>
> But then you find the labels don't mean the same thing, that person A
> does "24/7" and means something completely different to person B, that
> some folk are certain pain is a main part, or punishment or leather or
> collaring ceremonies or control or humiliation or service, and even if
> they agree on those, they seem to disagree on what they are!
>
> Damn it's hard to make your way in all that.
>
> It's a trackless wilderness, a chaotic mess of stuff.
Amen! You've put it so well. I wanted this all to be so simple and
fooled myself into believing at some odd point that it just might be.
I figured out I was a submissive....now where is my dream Dom dammit?!
I have to work at this? Oh the horror, the horror. Now, I must deal
with reality and start all over again which is not a bad thing.
Just....frustrating as hell. Making lists and checking them twice to
figure out whose pieces will fit with my pieces. Once I find him, I
will live happily ever after, right? Right? *wink and a grin*
The truly sad part is that there are many out there who honestly do
believe it is easy. I have found many submissives (and Doms) who
appear to have almost a Harlequin romance novel approach to a D/s
relationship.
> Mainly cos it took me a while to realise that BDSM is not at all neat
> and orderly. There's no clear path, no certifying body, no ranks, no
> progression
yes, i've just realized this myself....i'm thinking it isn't fair.
> I was really pissed off when I realised that. Dammit, I wanted
> progress, I wanted status, I wanted to know I was doing it right!
Yeah! ....what Silver said.
Thank you Silver. Sharing yourself has helped me a great deal. It
feels so damned good to not feel so alone anymore.
cerina
SilverOz
cerina <ceri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I figured out I was a submissive....now where is my dream Dom dammit?!
> I have to work at this? Oh the horror, the horror. Now, I must deal
>with reality and start all over again which is not a bad thing.
>Just....frustrating as hell. Making lists and checking them twice to
>figure out whose pieces will fit with my pieces. Once I find him, I
>will live happily ever after, right? Right? *wink and a grin*
And just to make it even harder for you...
I made a list. Peter fits almost none of the requirements!
Now Peter is in no way my ideal partner. But he's good in ways I
never even thought about. Good in ways I didn't realise I wanted.
I have chenged some to accomodate this, I've gone in directions I
didn't envisage. Because I can. Being a human, I've got lots and
lots of sides to me, and as long as the basics are met, the other
stuff can change.
I foudn the basics were things like "We enjoy each other's company
when we aren't doing D&S" and "We have similar attitudes to emotions
and analysis - both intellectuals" which when you think about it is
the same thing!
The other really vital part was "He has to be dom and be comfortable
with it.". Surprising how many were not.
>
>The truly sad part is that there are many out there who honestly do
>believe it is easy. I have found many submissives (and Doms) who
>appear to have almost a Harlequin romance novel approach to a D/s
>relationship.
Well, that works well depending on how hard D&S is for you.
To many people, it's a damn nice way to relate - it gives a template
for interaction, ideas to spice things up, and generally makes things
easier. They don't find it hard, they don't tend to do things that
are difficult, they set the level where it works for them. A lot of
the time it is very much about sex and emotions and the rituals, which
makes a good satisfying relationship for them.
Me, I find I need the harder, darker side. I don't get subspace
without work, and some of that work is to "break" barriers. With time
and conditioning it gets easier to do, but then we both want to move
further.
It's a different style, with different goals.
I think it's very important for you to realise that there is no
progress, no heirarchy. They are doing D&S just as much as I am, mine
is not "better" (except for me) it's just different.
SilverOz
Cathbodua
>Date: Sat, Sep 1, 2001 1:21 PM
>The truly sad part is that there are many out there who honestly do
>believe it is easy. I have found many submissives (and Doms) who
>appear to have almost a Harlequin romance novel approach to a D/s
>relationship.
Not surprising, if you think about it...Harlequin made a killing off a basic
D/s fantasy. The recent ones are a little less goopy, but the stuff that came
out pre-1985 or so...GOD DAMN, I was reading this stuff when I was ten and I
wonder why I'm a sub? It's hypnotic. You, the lovely young female are put into
a color-coded environment, and found by The Dom. He is rich. He is tall. He
will pursue you. You are allowed to act out, struggle, scream, and generally do
whatever the hell you want. Eventually, he will solve all of your problems by
either raping you, or threatening to. Then you get married. You wear great
clothes the whole time.
Over, and over, and over again. Eventually your brain melts. Even my developing
feminist consciousness couldn't quite kill the allure. Especially of the ones
with spanking scenes.
Charlotte
merwench
Oh, my, yes! I loved those books, and Rosemary Rogers (Purple Passion!)
and who could ever forget Forever Amber? Always wanted to be the naughty
wench having a go with the lord of the castle. Which of course is why my
darling master calls me his Wench.
Good lord, how humiliating. "Psyche molded by Harlequin."
merwench -- Remove SOS for reply -- "If you can't be a good example,
then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." --Catherine Aird
no...@expample.com
Don't let others push you. Do listen to their advice and talk of their
experiences. They may talk about something you haven't thought of or
give you a different way of looking or approaching things. Sometimes its
hard to see what's in front of your nose. Someone outside can give you
a different slant on things at times.
Cathbodua
>Date: Sat, Sep 1, 2001 8:39 PM
>Good lord, how humiliating. "Psyche molded by Harlequin."
of them anymore is that the settings aren't much fun. It's very suburban and
white-bread, and the alienness of that distracts me from the story. But if they
did Harlequins with bisexual heroines set in big cities, I would be all over
them. And I bet for women who find the settings less bizarre they're
crackerjack.
BTW, are there any other Black Lace fans out there? I thought that was
brilliant...use basic romance novel format, but put in LOTS of assorted sex.
Charlotte
merwench
Well, not necessarily a book for subs, but a good book with excellent
writing and a lot of little inserts of kinky shit (including the
protagonist and a female friend who have a fantasy
break-and-enter-and-rape scene ongoing) is Complicity by Iain Banks.
I too would be interested in any suggestions on this topic. Having
finally admitted this is who I am I am throwing myself into it
whole-heartedly and just can't get enough!!
no...@example.com
SilverOz <ze...@zip.com.au> wrote:
>In soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm on 1 Sep 2001 13:21:05 -0700
>cerina <ceri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>I made a list. Peter fits almost none of the requirements!
>
>Now Peter is in no way my ideal partner. But he's good in ways I
>never even thought about. Good in ways I didn't realise I wanted.
>
>I have chenged some to accomodate this, I've gone in directions I
>didn't envisage. Because I can. Being a human, I've got lots and
>lots of sides to me, and as long as the basics are met, the other
>stuff can change.
>
>I foudn the basics were things like "We enjoy each other's company
>when we aren't doing D&S" and "We have similar attitudes to emotions
>and analysis - both intellectuals" which when you think about it is
>the same thing!
>
>The other really vital part was "He has to be dom and be comfortable
>with it.". Surprising how many were not.
When you make you lists remember to include more then your D&S interests.
If you are living together then things like smoking/non-smoking, diets,
hobbies, etc can all be important.
What's even more important, IMO, is you also need to have some
differences. And has been said, sometime the most unlikely people go
well together. Sometimes the differences are the important parts ;)
Mistress Marlene
*That's the bloody hard part I found! When you think BDSM
relationships come in neat understandable packets "24/7, tick" then it
looks easy, you just go to McDoms and get the package you like best.*
There isn't a relationship on earth that comes in a neat and understandable
package and the D/s world is very complex in it's simplicity yet simple in
it's complexity. 24/7 means no more than sharing a home and playing on
weekends to some...It means the submissive giving up their entire outside
existance to others....and the list goes on and on as do perceptions. One
thing I have no doubt about from My point of view as a Domme that lives this
lifestyle 24/7 is that it MUST be much more than bedroom games and pain. As
a Domme when I look for a 24/7 relationship I dance slowly with the
submissive for a very long time, so slowly that the dance can be agonizing
for them, I teach My ways and My voice always questions and encourages. Not
a wish, a hope or a dream can be hidden from Me. Not a kink or a fantasy. As
I learn them inside out..physically and emotionally I am explaining who I am
and why on a constant deep basis. I demand and give total honesty and
openess so there can be no misinterpretation as to where this dance will be
headed. I cannot be hurried but I can stop dead in the middle of the music
if I recognize a lack of magic on either side. There must be ~love and need~
more that ~desire and want~ to catch and keep My attention.
*Damn it's hard to make your way in all that.
It's a trackless wilderness, a chaotic mess of stuff.*
There is no single path to follow in ease but the path you searched for, for
so many years was not an easy one either. This 24/7 chaotic journey can be
full of tears and laughter, heaven and hell. The joy should outweigh the
agony but in the end a relationship entered into in such a serious format as
24/7 will not work if there is not mutual respect and a passion for each
other. So many submissives enter this stage simply with the first Dominant
that asks them or accepts their application. Out of excitement or
desperation or a single kink they hope will become the centerpiece of this
relationship. Neither have learned how to dance together and both think if
they turn the music up loud enough nothing can go wrong.
*Amen! You've put it so well. I wanted this all to be so simple and
fooled myself into believing at some odd point that it just might be.*
24/7 must be integrated with the vanilla world which makes it virtually
impossible to be simple.
Yet once your relationship has reached the nirvana of complete trust and
devotion, where nothing matters but the direction the Dominant will take you
for your developement and growth and the look of pride in your Dominants
eyes means more to you than the spanking you have been craving all day...you
will be on your way to understanding that simple is not always best. When
things become to simple it is amazingly easy to become bored and
discontented. D/s is full of ups and downs....progress and
failures.....rewards and punishments....negotiation..honesty...and openess.
When you are feeling doubts or dissatisfaction, your Dominant needs to know.
Nothing is written in stone but if secrets or frustrations are not shared
they cannot be solved. And if a 24/7 relationship can not bring joy it is
time to admit it and give both the Dominant and the submissive the
opportunity to move onto a more satisfying relationship. 24/7 is difficult.
For both parties.
* Once I find him, I
will live happily ever after, right? Right? *wink and a grin**
WRONG.....~***grin****~
If you have found your heaven you will still taste your tears...of
frustration..disappointment...doubt...failure.....and ecstacy....and if this
24/7 is your destiny those tears will be dried with love and understanding
tempered with control and firmness.
*The truly sad part is that there are many out there who honestly do
believe it is easy. I have found many submissives (and Doms) who
appear to have almost a Harlequin romance novel approach to a D/s
relationship*
To the outside world the 24/7 lifestyle My slave and I live looks easy
because I Dominate easily and firmly with love and My slave submits
naturally and proudly.
This lifestyle is right for he and I. But no...it is not easy....for him or
for Myself but each tear that falls and each misunderstanding that occurs is
dealt with deeply.
There is magic and love between U/us and My Domination and his submission
could never have taken the dance to 24/7 without it.
*I was really pissed off when I realised that. Dammit, I wanted
progress, I wanted status, I wanted to know I was doing it right!*
Look deeper into your heart....you may see more progress than when you look
into the mirror.
M Marlene
www.themistress.addr.com/mistr/reality
"cerina" <ceri...@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:d41bcc88.01090...@posting.google.com...
iam4Her
<> Uh... I don't think feelings are quite that obedient to
> whether people think they "should" or "shouldn't" be
> happening, or quite as straightforward as "if X, then
> not-Y".
>
> "If your Master/Mistress had built up enough confidence and
> love in you, you wouldn't be jealous" makes about as little
> sense to me as "If your Master/Mistress really loved you,
> he/she wouldn't need to play with anyone else".
Of course everybody has their own opinion
It is just my opinion based on my experiences, no matter if i use the word
"should" or "would".
No subs/slaves are the same, all are unique in their own way.
Pride would come through beeing truely loved for the one you are.
This also means that a sub/slave would hopefully not feel jealous if a
Mistress loves another slave aswell.
Scarlet Apex
I read lots of romance novels as a teenager and I still read them on
occasion. The most explicit author I've found is Bertrice Small. Talk
about rape, whips, torture, and sex...LOL.
Tom's bella
--
WIPS:
Essence Bottles
Self-Designed Project
Bird Quilt
Christmas Ornaments
Powder Room Pair
Answers
Purrfect Playthings
Unicorn something or other
Completed 7/26/2001: Meowy Christmas Greetings Christmas Ornament
Completed 8/26/2001: Bleu Butterfly
To reply:
scarlet-apex at stny dot rr dot com
I REPORT SPAM
"Cathbodua" <cath...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010901224933...@mb-ft.aol.com...
TyMeDwn1st
<<top-posted comment snipped>>
Just a friendly note on posting styles:
Every usenet group seems to develop its own generally accepted posting quirks
and styles.
On SSBB, the vast majority of folks post by first quoting the message to which
they are replying and then adding their comments below that, in what is termed
"bottom posting." (Not to be confused with the way in which those who are
bottoms post, of course.)
When one top-posts, as you do, that "this is what I'm talking about" connection
is missing. The reader must first scroll down, review what you've quoted, and
then scroll back up to get to your own remarks.
Unless you're emotionally tied to top-posting or forced to do top-post by your
newsreader, you may wish to consider shifting to a bottom-posting style. As we
discovered in a recent thread, at least *some* folks here routinely killfile
posters who top-post, while others are likely simply skip past their posts.
Since your sig line runs to 16 lines, far outside the six lines recommended by
netiquette and even harder to get to the post to which you are referring, I
suspect you may find more folks than usual who don't take the time to get past
the clutter to find out what you're saying.
YMMV, of course.
Laura Antoniou
"force", and I think they actually had a policy against rape scenes.
Harlequines were mostly rather tame, although the earliest ones were
classically sexist.
The bodice rippers that became very popular in the 1970s, including the whole
Sweet, Savage Love series and its imitators, was a different story all
together. These books, mostly longer and much more sexually explicit than
Harlequin romances, took off like wildfire. Harlequins sold on a regular basis
- they had supermarket distribution and were often tossed into carts along with
TV Guide. But all the books with pirates, Beduins, savages, Mongols, rebels and
patriots, lots of men with bare chests and woman with heaving busoms, at least
one, but often two adjectives...
Those were among the books my Mom read, LOL. And I borrowed. The trashier ones
used coarser language - prick instead of phallus, titties instead of
heaving...well, you get the picture. One remarkable continuing series actually
had the long suffering heroine - torn between the blond pirate who ravished her
and the black haired pirate who - er - ravished her - actually spent time with
the Marquis de Sade! He didn't ravish her, only tortured her, as I recall.
It was always a mystery to me, even as a juvenile reader, why you would have
to force a women down so you could perform cunnilingus on her. Did you ever
notice how many of these ravishers started with a little bit of loving down
below? Also, I could never imagine how to hold her down adequately unless you
were in a 69 position, and they *never were*
Anyway. Then, there were the "plantation" bodice rippers - those amazing books
with astonishingly racist overtones, like Mandingo and (I think) Falconhurst
and Drum. (Mom liked those, too.) Toss in a little bit of race mixing and
apparently the steam rose, too. White owners abusing their African property,
generation after generation. Slaves rising up to torture, rape and kill their
former owners. An occasional relationship of free will popping up here and
there, too, although I have to admit I don't remember any.
Interesting kinds of porn, really - made for a middle class, mass market. You
don't see much of that today.
However - I did read a book recently called Kushiel's Dart, by Jacqueline
Carey. (Tor Books
0-312-87238-0 $25.95, hard cover) I wrote a short review to my own mailing
list, and I will append it here:
For those who think that sadomasochists are underrepresented in other genre
fiction, I am delighted to recommend a new book.
It's titled KUSHIEL'S DART, by Jacqueline Carey, and it's what I would call
low fantasy. (As opposed to the high fantasy "elves and dragons" style of
writing.) It's not exactly alternate universe, although it could be called
that.
Basically, it's the tale of a woman raised to be a courtesan, with an
important personal distinction - she is marked at birth with a certain red
spark in one eye, a symbol of a godlike being who delights in pain. She's a
masochist - and a heavy one. And although she sometimes sees this as a burden,
she also really enjoys her life and accepts her "birthright."
Now, mostly, when SM appears in non-SM fiction, it comes as the sadism of a
serial killer, the service of a loyal retainer, or outright nonconsensual rape
and torture scenes. In this case, though, what we have is a joyful masochist -
and a society in which a variety of sexualities are celebrated - in the
religious sense. It's interesting, and worthy of our attention.
A tad overblown in her prose from time to time, and bordering on offensive in
her descriptions of the perfect-in-every-way citizens of the central society in
the book, Carey nonetheless captures a portrait of a masochist heroine who
isn't ashamed of her masochism. (Although it proves inconvenient from time to
time.) And her masochism does not lead her to submission, although I found her
manners to be splendid. (Grin)
It's been out for only a few months and the sequel has already been sold. (The
ending is a wide-open invitation to more books.)
I got this as a gift - since it's a Tor book, you can expect to find it in
most mainstream bookstores and all the usual online places.
Laura
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Brand new edition of The Trainer shipping now! New material, new version.
Bookstores and via: the Marketplace Web site: www.iron-rose.com/marketplace
Cathbodua
>From: lant...@aol.comTMP (Laura Antoniou)
>Date: Mon, Sep 10, 2001 7:29 AM
>Just a note - by nature and design, Harlequin romance novels rarely included
>"force", and I think they actually had a policy against rape scenes.
>Harlequines were mostly rather tame, although the earliest ones were
>classically sexist.
Technical rape was rare, yes, and in the early ones, it was popular to end 'em
at the altar with the heroine still a virgin. But the _threat_ of force is the
definitive factor of many of them. The ever popular "I could have you right
here if I wanted...but I won't because I love you...good night little girl..."
routine was a standby, also the 'bad guy nearly raped you you stilly little
thing, on account of you didn't do like I told you to do...", and often very
exaggerated, ritualized, control behavior. Choosing clothing, demanding that
she put it on and model, mind games where he pretends to think she's fucking
another character...da list goes on.
> The bodice rippers that became very popular in the 1970s,
Had explicit sex, but lacked the heavy D/S dynamic of the more old fashioned
books, hence less charge for yours truly, not that I didn't read the bodice
rippers in the classic manner.
> It was always a mystery to me, even as a juvenile reader, why you would
>have
>to force a women down so you could perform cunnilingus on her. Did you ever
>notice how many of these ravishers started with a little bit of loving down
>below? Also, I could never imagine how to hold her down adequately unless
>you
>were in a 69 position, and they *never were*
In a bodice ripper, going down on the woman is how the man proves that he's the
hero. Villains do not go down on the girl. They may rape her, but they will NOT
go down on her. If a man pins you to a bed and sticks his tongue in your crotch
in a bodice ripper, he's meant for you. Important piece of information, that.
As to how you hold a woman down while tonguing her, it works best if she's not
really trying to get up, on account of the sweet, maddening ecstasy that your
tongue is causing in the flowering core of her feminine nature.
Charlotte
Philip the Foole
I find that tying her to the bed helps.
Your Humble Jester,
Philip the Foole
Take this lifesaver. Now stick your tongue through it. That's *all* I
want to see.
- Ancient Kung Foole Proverb by Whoopie Goldberg
Crystal
(Cathbodua) wrote:
> As to how you hold a woman down while tonguing her, it works best if she's not
> really trying to get up, on account of the sweet, maddening ecstasy that your
> tongue is causing in the flowering core of her feminine nature.
Am I a Bad Lesbian if I don't greatly enjoy that particular activity? I
love to give it, and tend to be very aggressive about it, but having it
done to me usually makes me squirm away. Maybe it's a control thing.
Crystal
--
Uppity women unite!