Clit removal
fem...@nomail.com
I was talking to someone who is on a list where they are having a topic
about a slave who said her Master asked her to have her clit removed in
order so she can focus only on his pleasures. We are talking about a D/s
couple that just got together, not a couple that has been together for
years. What I understand is this slave is willing to go forth with this
procedure for her Master.
Was wondering what everyone's thoughts where on this?
Laura Goodwin
> Was wondering what everyone's thoughts where on this?
I don't have any thoughts, just a gut reaction. Please don't get me
started on this subject.
Karl Kleinpaste
stupid and arrogant ass. Will they also aim for a Darwin Award
together sometime in their 1st (last) year together? Time to pull out
the loaded firearms, perhaps?
Comes back to that whole "responsibility for the well-being of
another" thang. He will truly and literally generate a disability in
this woman for the rest of her life -- permanent. Is he prepared to
weather the storm of consequences such an act will surely bring?
Call me cynical, but I doubt it. People with such "life is just one
big SM scene, and you're here to `focus only on my pleasures'" views
seldom seem to have enough connection with reality to have dealt even
intellectually, much less emotionally, with such consequences.
Tell him (and *her*) to think it through again. And again. And again.
Exactly how much of herself has she given over to him at this time?
Is this in line with the style of ownership she understood him to
exercise, in wide-ranging, general terms? Has this concept ever
arisen between them before *at all*? Once again, I'm cynical. How
many people would react positively to, "I intend to mutilate your body
so that a prime source of physical sensation is permanently destroyed"?
--
SSBB Diplomatic Corps, Pittsburgh & s.w. Pennsylvania
Mistress Gryf
>
>Was wondering what everyone's thoughts where on this?
I think that if she does not RUN, repeat, RUN away from such a sadistic SOB,
there's no help for her.
Anyone who even THINKS of having that done is a nut in my book.
I mean, perhaps we should ask the Dom in question what he'd feel about a
complete castration. Maybe that would make him realize what he's asking.
Mistress Gryf
Owner of gerry and brian
"Leather is the only aphrodisiac you don't have to consume."
whimsygirl
fem...@nomail.com wrote in message <37C6E14C...@nomail.com>...
>Hello everyone,
>
>I was talking to someone who is on a list where they are having a topic
>about a slave who said her Master asked her to have her clit removed in
>order so she can focus only on his pleasures. We are talking about a D/s
>couple that just got together, not a couple that has been together for
>years. What I understand is this slave is willing to go forth with this
>procedure for her Master.
>
This horrifies me in different ways: as a feminist and it's genitial
mutilation that is irreversible and it just reminds me to much of
non-consensual gentital mutilation in general<shudder>.
Plus..to take away a woman's ability to feel anything sexual, to prohibit
her permanently from ever acheiving any kind of sexual pleasure seems more
misogynistic to me vs Dominant or kinky.
nancy..still shuddering at the thought
Philip the Foole
Foole: If the guy is serious, my advice to her would be to leave and
set fire to his house on the way out.
Your Humble Jester,
Philip the Foole
"Not love," quoth he, "but vanity sets love a task like that."
- Ancient Kung Foole Proverb
Kimberly
made me want to vomit just reading your post. I cant imagine ANYONE
being so stupid as to permanently remove the most pleasurable part of
her body forever for someone who may not be around next week.
Janet Hardy
Mistress Gryf wrote in message
<19990827191854...@ngol02.aol.com>...
>
SOB,
>there's no help for her.
>
>Anyone who even THINKS of having that done is a nut in my book.
>
>I mean, perhaps we should ask the Dom in question what he'd feel about a
>complete castration. Maybe that would make him realize what he's asking.
And yet any dominant woman who's been around a while can tell stories of
submissive men seriously seeking to be castrated. The libido is a powerful
and irrational thing...
Verdant
victorian squid
> i've serious questions about the motives of the third party, myself.
I have serious questions that haven't been brought up, most likely because
they're too obvious.
Why on earth would her pleasure negate his????? The power to give her
physical pleasure isn't one he wants? It would detract from his own
pleasure in what way, exactly?
And speaking more practically for a sec, why on earth would it be that
he'd want to remove something that he could find thousands of ways to
torture and/or train her with? That little button has -endless- uses.
Sounds to me like someone threatened and terrified by female sexuality to
the point that he wants to symbolically destroy/mutilate it. To quote
MPython, "Run away, run away"!
Love on ya,
v. squid
M. Shirley Chong
> I was talking to someone who is on a list where they are having a topic
> about a slave who said her Master asked her to have her clit removed in
> order so she can focus only on his pleasures. We are talking about a D/s
> couple that just got together, not a couple that has been together for
> years. What I understand is this slave is willing to go forth with this
> procedure for her Master.
>
> Was wondering what everyone's thoughts where on this?
I have a data point to present. In the early 80's, I knew a woman who had gone
through genital mutilation when she was 13 years old. She told me that it
didn't remove her desire. And some experimentation taught her how to come to orgasm.
I have no way to know if she was really experiencing orgasm or just thought
she was--but I can say that she certainly gave every detectable sign of having orgasms.
But don't tell Phillip. <WG>
Shirley
to reply via e-mail remove the trees from my address
MsJudi
>Hello everyone,
>
>I was talking to someone who is on a list where they are having a topic
>about a slave who said her Master asked her to have her clit removed in
>order so she can focus only on his pleasures. We are talking about a D/s
>couple that just got together, not a couple that has been together for
>years. What I understand is this slave is willing to go forth with this
>procedure for her Master.
>
>Was wondering what everyone's thoughts where on this?
INSANE.
MsJudi
SSBB Diplomatic Corps. Houston, Tx
IM: DommeTulip
Sockermom9
>What I understand is this slave is willing to go forth with this
>procedure for her Master.
>
>Was wondering what everyone's thoughts where on this?
My thoughts involve guesses that her IQ is somewhere near her shoe size. In
USAian.
Also that he's even dumber than that.
Lynn
New to the world of submission? Check out http://members.aol.com/oldrope/ for
some thoughts for newcomers from those who've been there and decided to stick
around.
Robin Lawrie
<fem...@nomail.com> wrote
> Was wondering what everyone's thoughts where on this?
>
knives and a so called "dom" whimpering like a little baby. You guys can
hold him down but I get to do the cutting.>
This sounds like an "online" thing to do. Sure, lets buzz off into fantasy
land and start with the bodily mutilations and dismemberments. I read a
short story on just this thing the other day, and was bloody glad it *was*
only a story(good story tho). Not my thing, but for online play, sure why
not (and at least you know it'll be there in the morning).
OK, so this guy wants his slave to not experience pleasure so that she can
concentrate on him. Well gee, there's an incentive. </sarcasm. well,
probably not>. If he's that keen on her clit not working, is there some kind
of numbing cream or spray that could temporarily knock it out of commision.
I'm thinking novacaine or some other "..caine" like drug. No need to go the
radical removal thing at all. It's not like they're going to put it back on
when this jerk buggers off. "Master, I cut off my clit so that I would be
only thinking of your pleasure." "Yeah great, darl. Um, look, I'll call you,
ok?"
Robin
atara's Owner
(still squirming, and not in a good way)
Spyral Fox
<rob...@s054.aone.net.au> writes:
>OK, so this guy wants his slave to not experience pleasure so that she can
>concentrate on him. Well gee, there's an incentive. </sarcasm. well,
>probably not>.
I didn't really address that in my post, because IMO it's
just so *obvious.* One of the many ways to control someone
is with pleasure, gifting it or with-holding it on a whim. While
not every single nerve in the female's body is in the clitoris
(which, btw, is a heck of a lot more than just the visible tip,
since it branches and folds back on itself) removing the clit
will take a huge number of the working nerves that can be used
to torment a slave away, never to grow back. Further, what
with the brain involvement and the outer third of the vagina,
and the so-called "G-spot" (neck of the bladder), removing the
clit wouldn't necessarily mean she couldn't reach orgasm
anyhow, just that it would prbably be much tougher, if she's
currently clitorally orgasmic (not all women are).
- - Spyral Fox
--
Official Depooty of the Sheriff of Nettingham's Charter Enforcers (CLG)
Member, SSBB Diplomatic Corps.
Owned & Operated by Lord Richard. ("Ani l'dodi...")
San Diego Resources: http://members.aol.com/spyralfox/
Zayphod
>Hello everyone,
>
>I was talking to someone who is on a list where they are having a topic
>about a slave who said her Master asked her to have her clit removed in
>order so she can focus only on his pleasures. We are talking about a D/s
>couple that just got together, not a couple that has been together for
>years. What I understand is this slave is willing to go forth with this
>procedure for her Master.
>
>Was wondering what everyone's thoughts where on this?
>
>
>
Well, gee, it sounds like he is very self-centered, couldn't care less
about mutual pleasure and enjoyment in a relationship, and he should
probably run for public office.
As far as relationships go, I'd suggest she dump him for someone who's
actually qualified to be her dom.
Zayphod at aol dot com
Zayphod at gate dot net
"I say to you net-abusers, KNOCK OFF ALL THAT SPAM"
--- Something "The Tick" would say, if he were on-line
SSBB/SSS Diplomatic Corps: Fort Lauderdale Area
guttersnipe
> .....her Master asked her to have her clit removed.....
What, he's too lazy to remove it himself?
Heidi
the impudent guttersnipe
Kaharis
First, I'd suggest studying the horrors of genital mutilations performed in
many countries on young girls.
Second, I'd suggest that the one doing the studying first be the <cough>
master, to try to understand what an assinine request he made.
Third, if he did not understand that he had made an assinine request, I would
highly recommend painful CBT, to better explore the ideas of genital pain and
discomfort. You know, that old theory of the dominant who first uses a whip on
himself to better test it and so on.
I still have my legs crossed.
=Jaguar=
>This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.
It's pretty far out, but no more ridiculous than offing a
guy's cock and balls -- transgendering excepted.
>This literally made me want to vomit just reading your post.
Gee ... I got a woodie reading it -- from a fantasy
perspective anyway. Next to be removed would be the
teeth so that blowjobs would be less likely to result
in male member trauma.
>I cant imagine ANYONE being so stupid as to permanently remove
>the most pleasurable part of her body forever for someone who
>may not be around next week.
Which is the stupid part? Permanently removing the most
pleasurable part forever, or doing it for someone who may
not be around next week? Hmmm ... probably both, eh?
While I can't imagine myself wanting anyone to go that
far to please and obey me, or me doing something similar
to please and obey anyone else, I suppose that there are
those who would and do such things. It's certainly not
anything in my real life desires, but it also doesn't
make me ill to think that others might feel differently.
=Jaguar=
Visit Jaguar's D/s-BDSM World
"http://www.jagworld.com/bdsm/jag-bdsm.htm"
Philip the Foole
last post. Here's the original:
Your Humble Jester,
Philip the Foole
"No love," quoth he, "but vanity, sets love a task like that."
- Ancient Kung Foole Proverb by Leigh Hunt (The Glove and the Lions.)
***********
http://www.library.utoronto.ca/utel/rp/poems/hunt3b.html
HUNT, LEIGH
THE GLOVE AND THE LIONS
New Monthly Mag.: Original Text Reference.
Composition Date: unknown. Publication Date: 1836 May.
Ed. (text): J. D. Robins; (e-text): I. Lancashire.
Rep. Poetry: 2RP.2. 155.
1 King Francis was a hearty king, and loved a royal sport,
2 And one day as his lions fought, sat looking on the court;
3 The nobles filled the benches, and the ladies in their pride,
4 And 'mongst them sat the Count de Lorge, with one for whom he
sighed:
5 And truly 'twas a gallant thing to see that crowning show,
6 Valour and love, and a king above, and the royal beasts below.
7 Ramped and roared the lions, with horrid laughing jaws;
8 They bit, they glared, gave blows like beams, a wind went with
their paws;
9 With wallowing might and stifled roar they rolled on one another;
10 Till all the pit with sand and mane was in a thunderous smother;
11 The bloody foam above the bars came whisking through the air;
12 Said Francis then, "Faith, gentlemen, we're better here than
there."
13 De Lorge's love o'erheard the King, a beauteous lively dame
14 With smiling lips and sharp bright eyes, which always seemed the
same;
15 She thought, the Count my lover is brave as brave can be;
16 He surely would do wondrous things to show his love of me;
17 King, ladies, lovers, all look on; the occasion is divine;
18 I'll drop my glove, to prove his love; great glory will be mine.
19 She dropped her glove, to prove his love, then looked at him and
smiled;
20 He bowed, and in a moment leaped among the lions wild:
21 The leap was quick, return was quick, he has regained his place,
22 Then threw the glove, but not with love, right in the lady's face.
23 "By God!" said Francis, "rightly done!" and he rose from where he
sat:
24 "No love," quoth he, "but vanity, sets love a task like that."
T. Eckhart
>I was talking to someone who is on a list where they are having a topic
>about a slave who said her Master asked her to have her clit removed in
>order so she can focus only on his pleasures. We are talking about a D/s
>couple that just got together, not a couple that has been together for
>years. What I understand is this slave is willing to go forth with this
>procedure for her Master.
>
>Was wondering what everyone's thoughts where on this?
No. That is my basic thought. I'm very strongly opposed to folks
wacking off body parts at the suggestion of others. In my personal
opinion, that man sounds like an abuser not a dominant, definately not a
good dominant whom in my opinion would value their partner's pleasure.
--
--
Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips, & Chains,
TammyJo Eckhart (teck...@kiva.net)
http://www.kiva.net/~teckhart/
"I'm going to take you higher, and that's no lie." -- Savage Garden
T. Eckhart
>Mistress Gryf wrote in message
>>
>>I mean, perhaps we should ask the Dom in question what he'd feel about a
>>complete castration. Maybe that would make him realize what he's asking.
>
>And yet any dominant woman who's been around a while can tell stories of
>submissive men seriously seeking to be castrated. The libido is a powerful
>and irrational thing...
True but the different I see is between the person wanting it
themselves and it being suggested or pushed by another person. Heck,
here in Indiana last spring a man was arrested for performing
castrations without a medical lisence so yes, people, for whatever
reasons do indeed get their bodies seriously modified. The key for me is
that the person does it for him/herself, it is their idea, something
they've thought about and hopefully talked to doctors and therapists about
first.
Bok Fu Kuen
I have been lurking since January when I realized I had more than just a passing
interest in BDSM. Anyway, this "clit removal" thread and a few others have made me
think and really understand a bit more about myself.
My question, though, is on the subject of not judging anyone else's kink. I judge
peoples' kinks. I keep my feelings to myself (sometimes) but, in general, I can't
look at some of the things I've seen and say "whatever turns them on". I have been
witness to one scene in particular where I thought the Dom (and possibly, his sub)
was mentally unbalanced. However, it was at a play party and I could only turn
away.
1. Is there any kink that that lifestyle just does not accept? (Besides animals,
kids, and dead people.)
2. How does morality figure into BDSM?
3. How does conscience figure into BDSM?
4. If "everything and anything goes", isn't that anarchy?
Just some questions. Like I said, I do play (very intensely, I might add) and I do
have a lovely sub. It just made me realize how conservative my perspective is.
Bok Fu Kuen
Bok Fu Kuen
gone crazy from interrogators doing this same thing to them. Such things take place in
wars and prisons. They are done with the intention of mentally destoying a person.
Should I say "that's their kink" to this scene? I think it was cruel and could have
lasting emotional damage on the woman.
Xiphias Gladius
> 1. Is there any kink that that lifestyle just does not accept? (Besides
> animals, kids, and dead people.)
There is no "lifestyle" that accepts or does not accept kinks. There are
people, there are communities. And there are people who will argue that
there are children who can give consent. There are people who will argue
that there are animals that can give consent. There are people who will
argue that the animal's feelings don't really matter because, well, it's
an animal and animals don't have rights. There are people who will argue
that, if the person gave consent before death, corpses are okay. There
are people who will argue that corpses are ex-people and don't really
matter, so consent is not neccessary.
For the record, there is at least one of the above statements with which I
agree, at least one with which I disagree, and at least one with which my
gut feelings and my intelect are at odds. And, no, I'm not going into
more detail about which is which.
But there is no lifestyle, as such. People have particular beliefs.
People form communitites, and those communities have mores based on the
people who form them. And that's about all you can say.
In some communities, any relationship that you can't step outside of, at
least temporarily, to deal with the relationship on a meta-level is looked
upon with suspicion. In other communities, the *exact* opposite is true
-- any relationship that the participants *can* do this with is thought to
be not real.
The idea of irrevocable consent -- many people have very strong opinions,
dimetrically opposed.
The idea that *real* BDSM can *never* have anything to do with sex.
The idea that *real* BDSM must *always* have to do with sex.
These are all ideas that appear in "the lifestyle."
And *that's* what the taboo against YKINOKism is for. If we want to even
be able to *begin* to act as a community on any level larger than a couple
dozen people, we have to be able to ignore a lot of these vast
differences.
And people differ on how far this should go. I think most people set up
categories in their head: "This set of beliefs is what I believe is true,
this set of beliefs is what I believe could be true or false, this set of
beliefs is what I believe is not true, but I'm not going to get into an
argument about, this set of beliefs is what I will fight on. This set of
actions is what I must do, this set of actions is what I could enjoy, this
set of actions is what I could see myself doing someday, this set of
actions is what I'll never do, but will watch if someone else does it,
this set of actions is what I must leave the room for, but can still be
friends with the person, this set of actions is what bothers me so much I
can't even socialize with the person, this set of actions is what I'll
call the police for."
And these sets are different for everyone.
YKINOKism is not absolute. There are actions that *nobody* would condone.
But what the exact line is . . . that changes from person to person and
community to community.
> 2. How does morality figure into BDSM?
Extremely prominently. If you are going to step outside the rules that
society sets up -- and by beating each other, we do -- you *must* set up
rules which you will follow.
> 3. How does conscience figure into BDSM?
For me, prominently. But you have to be able to distinguish between your
concience and your gut. A lot of people make the mistake that "that which
nausiates me must be morally wrong."
As far as I can tell, this is the argument which is the basis for
homophobia. . .
> 4. If "everything and anything goes", isn't that anarchy?
Yes. However, everything and anything *doesn't* go.
- Ian
--
Marriage, n: The state or condition of a community consisting of a master,
a mistress, and two slaves, making, in all, two. -- Ambrose Bierce
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ian
SSBB Diplomatic Corps; Boston, Massachusetts
John D Ray Jr
fellow Master would be so damn narrow minded
<fem...@nomail.com> wrote in message news:37C6E14C...@nomail.com...
> Hello everyone,
Jackie Patti
>1. Is there any kink that that lifestyle just does not accept?
(Besides animals,
>kids, and dead people.)
You wouldn't necessarily find everyone agreeing on those either. In
general, we largely agree that activites are OK as long as there is
informed consent (but you won't get a complete consensus on that
statement either).
It is debatable, and has been debated many times, whether animals can
and or do consent and at what age "children" are or are not able to
consent.
To me, I'd say the consent of a dead person is pretty much a
meaningless question - which doesn't mean I want to do things with
corpses myself. I'd guess you kind of get into property rights at
that point.
>2. How does morality figure into BDSM?
My ethics apply to my behavior. My ethics apply to what behavior I
will or will not put up with from other people interacting with me.
My ethics apply to what I do or do not want to be around.
And my ethcis have nothing whatsoever to do with any other situation
as far as I can tell. That's not got to do with BDSM, but with any
situation in the real world.
>3. How does conscience figure into BDSM?
My conscience figures into all my decisions, behaviors and actions,
whether SM-related or not. I don't cease to be me simply because I'm
engaging in SM.
>4. If "everything and anything goes", isn't that anarchy?
If someone gets to decide what does and doesn't go for everyone else,
isn't that tyranny?
Laura Goodwin
> 4. If "everything and anything goes", isn't that anarchy?
I'm not going to try to define anarchy but I can tell you that BDSM
people are not the kind to say "anything goes". Anything ~does not~
go. Look at all the deep discussion and debate about the
safe-sane-consensual guideline and the use of safewords, look at the
obsessive concern over protocols of etiquette in evidence here in the
newsgroup. ~Hardly anything goes~ is more like it! ;)
--
Laura Goodwin
"I love those who love me, and those that seek me earnestly shall find
me."
(Proverbs 8:17)
Jackie Patti
>Don't mean to reply to my own post but I just read the loaded gun
scene. People have
>gone crazy from interrogators doing this same thing to them. Such
things take place in
>wars and prisons. They are done with the intention of mentally
destoying a person.
>Should I say "that's their kink" to this scene? I think it was cruel
and could have
>lasting emotional damage on the woman.
I was once spanking a submissive, and sie went into a flashback -
vividly reliving childhood abuse. It was a light spanking, but by
coincidence, I was hitting over and over again in a particular spot
that brought on the flashback. Was that cruel?
Another time, during a knife scene in which the submissive was
spread-eagled and blindfolded, I turned the knife over to the
non-sharp edge and placed the point at the submissive's throat and
with intense pressure pulled the thing downwards stopping just above
the wabbly bits. Said submissive thought zie was being butchered and
was going to die. Was that cruel?
In the first instance, careful negotiation had not revealed the hot
button, the submissive had completely repressed the memory. Noting
that zie was not going where I wanted hir to go, I stopped and brought
hir out. I discovered zie had not safeworded because zie did not
remember where zie was, but was completely reliving that previous
experience. We talked and cuddled and made nice instead of continuing
the scene.
In the second instance, both myself and the submissive got off
MASSIVELY. When we talked afterwards, zie told me about the
overwhelming disappointment when zie realized that the fear wasn't
real, that I hadn't cut hir open.
The first instance had lasting emotional effects - the submissive was
pretty emotionally screwed up for some time afterwards, as far as I
could tell. The second instance had lasting erotic effects, zie
masturbated to fantasies remembering the scene.
I AM a sadist. I get off on pain and fear. I'm also a caring,
ethical person, so I am very careful, mindful and think things through
carefully. Nevertheless, there are always risks, and we can't always
know ahead of time what they are.
There are risks of "lasting emotional effects" even with "minor"
activities for some people in some situations and little risk of such
with "major" activities for other people in other situations. This is
where the expression YMMV (your mileage may vary) comes from.
As noted in another thread, I find riding a rollercoaster intolerable,
and watching someone I care for on one barely tolerable. I mean,
REALLY intolerable, it scares me very, very badly, and is upsetting,
and terribly hurtful to me. I'm well aware that the majority of the
world doesn't feel that way about it. It doesn't make it "OK" for me.
But I find a head-fuck in which the submissive is utterly terrified
for their life, and WANTING to die, awfully hot. Again, I'm aware
that the majority of the world doesn't feel that way about it. That
doesn't make it "not OK" for me.
Laura Goodwin
>
> Bok Fu Kuen wrote in message <37C8153F...@amoebazone.com>...
>
> >1. Is there any kink that that lifestyle just does not accept?
> (Besides animals,
> >kids, and dead people.)
>
> You wouldn't necessarily find everyone agreeing on those either. In
> general, we largely agree that activites are OK as long as there is
> informed consent (but you won't get a complete consensus on that
> statement either).
Look at the answers people are giving on the survey. I ask what is BDSM
to you, and as far as I can tell not one adds animal play, kids, or dead
people. Informed consent does seem to be ~a given~. It sure *looks*
like a consensus! Certainly we are talking overwhelming majority.
We shouldn't be namby-pamby about this. BDSM *is* some things, and it
definitely *is not* other things. I'm not even going to try to tell you
what I think it is. If you want to know what the people say it is, take
a look.
http://books.dreambook.com/goodwin/survey.html
Add your input too, if you would be so kind. Thank you.
http://books.dreambook.com/goodwin/survey.sign.html
Laura Goodwin
http://www.cabo-one.com/lalaura
"That friendly Connecticut sadist lady"
T. Eckhart
>My question, though, is on the subject of not judging anyone else's kink. I judge
>peoples' kinks. I keep my feelings to myself (sometimes) but, in general, I can't
>look at some of the things I've seen and say "whatever turns them on". I have been
>witness to one scene in particular where I thought the Dom (and possibly, his sub)
>was mentally unbalanced. However, it was at a play party and I could only turn
>away.
>
>kids, and dead people.)
An entire range of them not limited by action but by motivation --
is it safe, sane, and consensual is the biggest test to me.
>2. How does morality figure into BDSM?
See above, that is the basic ethics/morality for my entire life.
The motto developed in 1987 fits for me because it fits into the codes for
my life I already had.
>3. How does conscience figure into BDSM?
I have a golden rule for myself: I don't do things I'm ashamed of.
>4. If "everything and anything goes", isn't that anarchy?
I'm not sure where you've seen this in particular, know it can't
have been from me. But that attitude isn't just found in BDSM, it can be
found in other things as well. Remember there are indeed folks who
promote and embrace anarchy.
William December Starr
medical tech to do the operation quickly and painlessly, put the
excised organ in storage and, if desired, perfectly reattach it
days/week/months/years later with an equally simple operation.
(And given the prevalence of castration fantasies among sub males,
wouldn't _that_ make life a bit different for all involved?)
(Not to mention the potential for non-con fantasies about
"hostage-taking...")
-- William December Starr <wds...@crl.com>
Jackie Patti
<38382d0d....@news.cyberverse.com>...
>And FWIW, i suspect the questioner about the clit removal to be a
>troll. Just my opinion.
I suspect it's someone whom finds talking about the fantasy hot whom
is unlikely to be involved in SM in real life at all.
That's why I never answered the thing. The folks whom are into online
fun-and-games find discussions of the reality boring as it interferes
with their fantasy.
Lynn Public
and never look back.
I am a strong avocate for yielding completely to the control of her
Owner within the framework of SSC (Safe, Sane and Concensual.)
I think the guy is a nus and a potential danger. Masters try to
conserve their property not destroy it. I hope that he is not planning
on removing it for the poor girl a la Jack the Ripper.
I would say to her 'Get away from that fuck before he hurts you.'
Love,
Lynn
http://www.newfree.com/lynn/
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
IronWynch
Bok Fu Kuen wrote:
>
> Don't mean to reply to my own post but I just read the loaded gun scene. People have
> gone crazy from interrogators doing this same thing to them. Such things take place in
> wars and prisons. They are done with the intention of mentally destoying a person.
> Should I say "that's their kink" to this scene? I think it was cruel and could have
> lasting emotional damage on the woman.
It is possible to be damaged by something that one consents to, and most
people into BDSM know this...
However, there is a tendency not to try to regulate the behavior of
others because we all (should) know that this doesn't work well.
So, the best that any of us can really do is to state our personal
opinions, don't do things that we feel are bad, and try not to be overly
judgemental of decisions that other people make for themselves.
As you can see, though, the non-judgemental attitude is easier touted as
an ideal than actually practiced, but it's still a very valid
ideal/goal.
Clitorectomies and loaded gun play are a bit on the extreme side, and
things that most people would never consider doing...Fantasizing about,
sure, but doing, no...but some people would do it, and it's their right
to make that decision for themselves. They are the ones who will have
to pay for their mistakes.
I can say that something is a bad idea, and that it is a mistake, but
since I can't stop them from doing it, if they really want that, it's
also best to add "...but if you do this, here is where you can get some
safety information..."
Despite the number of people who do get hurt by *consensual* genital
alterations, breath play, knife play, and loaded gun play, there are
many people who do play it safe, and who do not get hurt by it.
From experience, I will say that when I go into a serious "edge"
situation, all my ducks are in a row, and I'm ready to die.
It's a similar mindset to a stunt driver. One knows that one could die
or be seriously injured from it, but one does it anyway because the
rewards outweigh the possible risks.
Since I had my daughter, I wouldn't become a stunt driver or engage in
edge play with a high risk of fatality or mental stress...but there are
stunt drivers and edge players who do have kids, and that's their
prerogative. I can say all day that this is a bad idea, but when it
comes down to it, I'm not saying anything to them that they haven't
probably said to themselves over and over again, while deciding what to
do.
I prefer not to treat adults like babies (well, with some exceptions, of
course ;) ).
~IronWynch
jkay
>
>I was talking to someone who is on a list where they are having a topic
>about a slave who said her Master asked her to have her clit removed in
>order so she can focus only on his pleasures. We are talking about a D/s
>couple that just got together, not a couple that has been together for
>years. What I understand is this slave is willing to go forth with this
>procedure for her Master.
>
>Was wondering what everyone's thoughts where on this?
Well there a lot of information that is not known about these individuals nor
of their relationship. It could be very intense and they could be such that
they are really into such radical, deep and spiritual exchanges whereby such
measures to insure focus are necessary as they see that it is. What we here
say about it is rather mute since it is they who will ultimately decide for
themselves.
I'll gather that the Dom or the slave or both read the letter on the Body
Modification Ezine about a gal that had her Master take out her clit and how
much better it was for her to focus solely on her Master and His needs. I
would guess there a number of other such resources on the net and off.
Afterall, how many women want 'those disgusting cock and balls' removed from
their slaves?! Nugget magazine and a variety of extremists SM periodicals have
such tales. It does go on. Is it safe - maybe and maybe not - depends a lot on
how it is done and by whom. For most tho I would suspect such removal is a bit
spiritual. Just look at some of the experiences that Fakir Musafar goes
through and to those in the magazine Body Primitive or in PFIQ: Piercing Fans
International Quarterly. I can't recall if genital removal is in there or not
- but what these people go through is pretty, well, traumatic, shocking, but
for them a passages experience. Then there's RE magazine - come on people -
there are guys that have their cocks split in two. Sounds radical to be sure,
but clit removal is pretty common - just not all that reported publically.
Hell, there are a number of countries that do it all the time. Just because
this couple wants to go through it under the guise of a D/s or M/s
relationship - well - that might work for them. the girl might be very much
into total submission to the point of sacrificing herself through body
modification. Years of being together is a rather mute point. she may have
been waiting for the opportunity for years and has finally found a guy that
will let her go through with it, and same for him - he has found a gal that
will do it. I think there is a lot more to be known about this couple then
what has been stated.
I will hope they will take some precautions, talk to others who perhaps have
either considered it or have had it done, and learn all they can about the
experience, the possible health issues and hormonal problems that might arise
from it. There is also the method of removeal to consider.
There are certainly way too many gals out there focusing on playing with
themselves and getting off when they should be focused on their Master or Dom
if they are in that kind of relationship. Some simply can't control
themselves. If clit removal is the route they wish to take - I'd say go for
it. What they decide is really all that is important.
Johnathan Kay
Craig Stocks
consenting, long term couples. ESPECIALLY something as sensitive, and
private as clit removal. This is not something that should be done, or even
thought about, between just meet Master/slave.
Is there not a movement in some third world countries to ban that
disgusting and vile practice?
Just tossing in my two cents worth,femsub
fem...@nomail.com wrote in message <37C6E14C...@nomail.com>...
Rae
<youn...@shaolin.com> writes:
>My question, though, is on the subject of not judging anyone else's kink. I
>judge peoples' kinks. I keep my feelings to myself (sometimes) but, in
>general, I can't look at some of the things I've seen and say "whatever
>turns them on".
I think that to some extent, we all judge other people's kinks. I know I do.
But I don't judge the "rightness" of the kink as a rule. I try to look at
kinks objectively, separate from the people who may do them, and judge whether
they are a fit for me. As far as people doing a particular kink, I think that
most any kink can be made "not okay" if there isn't consent. I personally
enjoy anal play. If I had a partner who told me he had a hard limit with this,
and allowed me to tie him up for the purpose of flogging, and I went ahead and
slipped something in his bum, my kink has just become "not okay". Summed up,
for me it's more "how one does it" than "what one does" that determines if
something is okay or not.
>1. Is there any kink that that lifestyle just does not accept? (Besides
>animals, kids, and dead people.)
You'll get some argument about some of this. There isn't any rulebook that
lines out what's okay and what's not. About the only thing here that I think
you will have concensus on is that playing (in a BDSM sense) with small
children is Not Okay.
>2. How does morality figure into BDSM?
Morality is a very personal issue. Moral and immoral are very much in the eye
of the beholder.
>3. How does conscience figure into BDSM?
Again, a very personal issue. We each follow our own conscience, no different
in the BDSM world than in the rest of the world.
>4. If "everything and anything goes", isn't that anarchy?
Everything and anything doesn't go, but what is wrong with anarchy? If there
is something wrong with this, how would it ever be policed? I don't go to
munches, I don't play at parties, everything I do is behind closed doors with
no audience. If we're doing something immoral or unconscionable, no one's ever
going to know except my partner and me, unless one of us shares the
information.
We can agree or disagree with what consenting adults choose to do, but IMO, if
I get hung up on what other people are doing, the only person I am upsetting is
myself. They are unlikely to defer to or even care about my opinion of their
activities.
That said, if I had personal knowlege of something going on that I deemed to be
Not Okay - say, someone picking up people and non-consentually beating them
senseless, I would report this person to the appropriate authorities. Then
again, in my eyes this isn't kink, it's assault.
Rae
Tobie
Norton Zenger wrote:
>
> Thus spake fem...@nomail.com:
>
> >Hello everyone,
> >
> >I was talking to someone who is on a list where they are having a topic
> >about a slave who said her Master asked her to have her clit removed in
> >order so she can focus only on his pleasures. We are talking about a D/s
> >couple that just got together, not a couple that has been together for
> >years. What I understand is this slave is willing to go forth with this
> >procedure for her Master.
> >
> >Was wondering what everyone's thoughts where on this?
>
> Well, to be quite honest, my first thought is
> BAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
I did that too after the initial gasp.
>
> But then I'm just a little warped.
and this is surprising in what way ?
*winking grin*
*I* think that any serious body modification needs to be done
for more personal reasons that "some one wants me to". It has
to be a decision that has been made comfortable from within and
not only just wanted, but really desired
When it comes to doing things that can't be undone, I think one
has to consider the fact that no matter how deep the bond, the
partner really not be there next year and can you live with
what you've done to yourself ( or had done ) after that.
Tobie
the red cabbage
(*ahem* who got re-collared last night)
Xiphias Gladius
> Look at the answers people are giving on the survey. I ask what is BDSM
> to you, and as far as I can tell not one adds animal play, kids, or dead
> people. Informed consent does seem to be ~a given~. It sure *looks*
> like a consensus! Certainly we are talking overwhelming majority.
Of course, you've got things posted publically with nicks attached, so
people wouldn't go against what they percieve to be the consensus.
Bob Baker
>Jackie Patti wrote:
>> You wouldn't necessarily find everyone agreeing on those either. In
>> general, we largely agree that activites are OK as long as there is
>> informed consent (but you won't get a complete consensus on that
>> statement either).
>
>Look at the answers people are giving on the survey. I ask what is BDSM
>to you, and as far as I can tell not one adds animal play, kids, or dead
>people. Informed consent does seem to be ~a given~. It sure *looks*
>like a consensus! Certainly we are talking overwhelming majority.
Of the people who bothered to answer your survey. Does this set of people
include *all* or even *most* people who practice BDSM? And also, do you
think none of the people who answered your survey would lie?
Blanket statements about all people or even a majority of people should be
based on studies with at least some scientific validity.
B. Baker
PS - to those who have me *plonked* the change in email address is not to
elude your filters ... it's just that cable modems are so darn *fast* ...
<G>
Lady Sun
Janet Hardy wrote in message <7q7i5l$jb7$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>And yet any dominant woman who's been around a while can tell stories of
>submissive men seriously seeking to be castrated. The libido is a powerful
>and irrational thing...
To which I heard a story about men - who sought castration - actually
responding to a guy on the net who actually castrated them. This supposedly
was filmed with no pain killers. Also the guy had no medical background. I
don't know if this story is true but I just heard about it. My thought is:
after it is done, the fantasy is over!! If you actually go through with it,
it is no longer a fantasy and furthermore you probably won't have many other
fantasies after it. Let's keep things into perspective gentlemen.
Peace,
Lady Sun.
Lady Sun
-=- kajira hill -=- wrote in message
>with testicles put in little clear plastic balls and made into earrings.
Hmmm I wonder what that fashion statement says........
jkay
Bok Fu Kuen <youn...@shaolin.com> wrote:
>Hi folks,
>
>1. Is there any kink that that lifestyle just does not accept? (Besides
animals,
>kids, and dead people.)
Well you might add cannibalism, spitting a female (see the Dolcett cartoons)
and some of the things that DeMulatto puts the females in his cartoons
through. Yes, there is a host of things that are not acceptable by 'groups'
into BDSM - however, by the 'individuals' involved I would suppose that almost
anything is possible - but what I would find even more acceptable is doing
that which gets you hot, bothered and wet - if even done in the best of
illusions. BDSM isn't so much about what is real but what is imagined is
happening and the anticipation that follows and possibly drives the scene. I
think you will find that most people like what is erotically stimulating - if
even painful as the event may be. Some things might be really hot to think
about and to expand through fantasy, but it would be by far even more
interesting to create the illusion of what might otherwise be a grave tradegy.
>
>2. How does morality figure into BDSM?
That depends a lot on what you term, personally, to be moral. Many of those
who slowly got into BDSM went through a lot of conflict with the religious
morals they grew up with. Morals and how you feel about them certainly can
still be there if you look at BDSM as just another kind of loving.
>
>3. How does conscience figure into BDSM?
Again, this depends on what bothers you or makes you feel as if perhaps you
shouldn't have gone there and done that scene or activity. Really depends on a
lot on how you feel and then what you do with that feeling, how it drives your
kink into other directions.
>
>4. If "everything and anything goes", isn't that anarchy?
Does it matter what it is? Why should you care? Do you do your kink because it
is what is expected of you by others or because it is what get you hot and
bothered?
Johnathan Kay
jkay
Bok Fu Kuen <youn...@amoebazone.com> wrote:
>Don't mean to reply to my own post but I just read the loaded gun scene.
People have
>gone crazy from interrogators doing this same thing to them. Such things
take place in
>wars and prisons. They are done with the intention of mentally destoying a
person.
>Should I say "that's their kink" to this scene? I think it was cruel and
could have
>lasting emotional damage on the woman.
>
That argument could be said for a lot of things in BDSM. Tieing a gal up with
rope might remind her of being raped and bound by an attacker, for example.
Being placed in a cage might bring back a time when her father placed her into
a closet to punish her when she was little. Whipping a gal might remind her of
her father using a belt to punish his wife during an act of domestic violence
against her.
What you are talking about is what is commonly called 'blue' areas (a term
that has come up in Seattle's scene used in additions to safe words like red,
yellow and green), or otherwise more commonly known as 'baggage'. These are
areas that Doms, Tops and Masters as well as subs, slaves and bottoms have to
be aware of either through negotiation or at some point in conversation before
or after a scene - and sometimes made known during a scene since some 'blue'
areas are not realized till they happen.
Making connotations to what is known but of what is not actually a personal
experience may or may not trip a person up psychologically. What you and your
partner do should require a bit of conversation, questions that pertain to
such area in each other's background - did you fight with your parents, have
you ever been raped, have you experienced domestic violence, etc.
Johnathan Kay
jkay
socke...@aol.com (Sockermom9) wrote:
>femsub, who might well be a troll, writes:
>
>>What I understand is this slave is willing to go forth with this
>>procedure for her Master.
>>
>>Was wondering what everyone's thoughts where on this?
>
>USAian.
>
>Also that he's even dumber than that.
>
>Lynn
Figures from someone who knows of that IQ better than anyone.
JK
>
>
>
>
>
>New to the world of submission? Check out http://members.aol.com/oldrope/
for
>some thoughts for newcomers from those who've been there and decided to stick
>around.
>
jkay
"whimsygirl" <whims...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>This horrifies me in different ways: as a feminist and it's genitial
>mutilation that is irreversible and it just reminds me to much of
>non-consensual gentital mutilation in general<shudder>.
>Plus..to take away a woman's ability to feel anything sexual, to prohibit
>her permanently from ever acheiving any kind of sexual pleasure seems more
>misogynistic to me vs Dominant or kinky.
>nancy..still shuddering at the thought
Clitoral removal does not remove all sexual feelings. There is still hormonal
reactions to nipple and breast play, kissing, and vaginal and anal play.
Johnathan Kay
jkay
teck...@sherrill.kiva.net (T. Eckhart) wrote:
> No. That is my basic thought. I'm very strongly opposed to folks
>wacking off body parts at the suggestion of others. In my personal
>opinion, that man sounds like an abuser not a dominant, definately not a
>good dominant whom in my opinion would value their partner's pleasure.
What you don't clearly understand is the depth of what a M/s relationships is.
A Master's pleasure is by far more important than the physical pleasure of his
slaves. If a Master wants the clit removed - he has every right to demand it.
If the slave does not wish to obey - she can run, ask for release, or she will
be punished, and quite severely, to put her back into the space she craves.
Granted for many of you this is quite radical - but it is a place that many
come to - both Master and slave - some more extreme than others.
A slave's primary focus is the hope of being found pleasing. Her drive is to
take up every opportuity to secure that hope, to know her Master is pleased
with her. And she also knows that every part of her belongs to her Master for
Him to do with pretty much as He pleases - even to have her clit removed.
Johnathan Kay
>
Sockermom9
>>>Was wondering what everyone's thoughts where on this?
>>
>>My thoughts involve guesses that her IQ is somewhere near her shoe size. In
>>USAian.
>>
>>Also that he's even dumber than that.
>>
>>Lynn
>
>Figures from someone who knows of that IQ better than anyone.
>
>JK
So, you're saying that surgical removal of the clit is something you thing is
acceptable to ask of people to whom you have recently been intorduced? Just
for the record?
And removal of the male's penis is something acceptable for female domainants
to ask of their male slaves, of course.
Lynn
Sockermom9
>Clitoral removal does not remove all sexual feelings. There is still hormonal
>
>reactions to nipple and breast play, kissing, and vaginal and anal play.
>
"Castration does not remove all sexual feelings. Thers is still hormonal
reactions to nipple and breast play, kissing, and anal play."
Yup. Should satisfy any guy *I* know.
Sockermom9
>A Master's pleasure is by far more important than the physical pleasure of
>his
>slaves. If a Master wants the clit removed - he has every right to demand it.
These are short-term slaves this guy is talking about folks. As in, "fuck you;
you'll be gone by morning, anyway."
>If the slave does not wish to obey - she can run, ask for release, or she
>will
>be punished, and quite severely, to put her back into the space she craves.
Or she--or he!--can laugh uproariously at such a thought, dump the pasta in the
turkey's lap, and find a master of quality.
skyd...@kc.net
> In article <slrn7sft7f....@sherrill.kiva.net>,
> teck...@sherrill.kiva.net (T. Eckhart) wrote:
>> No. That is my basic thought. I'm very strongly opposed to folks
>>wacking off body parts at the suggestion of others. In my personal
>>opinion, that man sounds like an abuser not a dominant, definately not a
>>good dominant whom in my opinion would value their partner's pleasure.
> What you don't clearly understand is the depth of what a M/s relationships is.
Bullshit. There are plenty of people 'round these parts that *do*
understand M/s and violently disagree that removing the clit is
a viable thing to do to a slave...particularly in a new relationship
that might not last out the year.
> A Master's pleasure is by far more important than the physical pleasure of his
> slaves. If a Master wants the clit removed - he has every right to demand it.
Bullshit. Even within M/s there is a need to address the needs of *BOTH*
partners in order to maintain a healthy relationship. Blindly ignoring
the needs of a slave is abuse. Plain. Simple. To the point.
> If the slave does not wish to obey - she can run, ask for release, or she will
> be punished, and quite severely, to put her back into the space she craves.
Not all slaves crave this. Not all slaves in M/s crave this. You, in
your deluded little fantasy world *THINK* that all slaves in M/s crave
this.
> Granted for many of you this is quite radical - but it is a place that many
> come to - both Master and slave - some more extreme than others.
Your ravings are not radical, nor is the idea radical to many of us.
What you do have is the delusional idea that you are rational and
safe to play with.
> A slave's primary focus is the hope of being found pleasing. Her drive is to
> take up every opportuity to secure that hope, to know her Master is pleased
> with her. And she also knows that every part of her belongs to her Master for
> Him to do with pretty much as He pleases - even to have her clit removed.
Slaves in your dream world are this way. Slaves in the real world *MAY*
be this way, or they may not be.
Regardless of that point, the health risks on body modification is not
something that should be entered into lightly. The removal of a body
part should not be entered into lightly. This is why there are years
of psychological assessments done to transexuals that are pre-op.
This type of body modification is not something to be done on a whim.
Particularly not on *YOUR* whim.
moonlight - SSB Diplomatic Corps, Kansas City, MO
She runs back down the hallway and through the bedroom door.
She reaches for the pistol kept in the dresser drawer.
Tells the lady in the mirror, he won't do this again.
Cause tonight will be the last time she'll wonder where he's been.
-Garth Brooks, "The Thunder Rolls"
skyd...@kc.net
fem...@nomail.com
> -=- kajira hill -=- wrote in message
I am not troll and this is not my fantasy what so ever. I'm a slave who
has a Master that adores his slaves clit. I only brought up the subject
because a sub friend of mine told me about it but she did not go into
great detail about this couple. She asked me if I had ever heard of such a
thing before and would I ever do this for my Master. My question was
simple. My Master would never ask such a thing of his slave. I only wanted
to hear what others felt about it.
Argentium G. Tiger
> jkay <tr...@trace.seanet.com> wrote:
>> A Master's pleasure is by far more important than the physical pleasure of his
>> slaves. If a Master wants the clit removed - he has every right to demand it.
> Bullshit. Even within M/s there is a need to address the needs of *BOTH*
> partners in order to maintain a healthy relationship. Blindly ignoring
> the needs of a slave is abuse. Plain. Simple. To the point.
He's angling for attention (any attention) again. Why are you indulging him?
Anyroad, on the subject of my pleasure vs. your pleasure: They're not normally
mutually exclusive things unless I missed some ultra obvious huge point.
My own viewpoint is that the concept of "Big cat eats first" works well. This
does NOT however imply "little cats starve". That'd be not only stupid, it'd
be downright... [ grasps for a word implying stupidity of biblical proportion ]
... Ah yes, that'd be downright jkay.
*smirking and re-sheathing claws*
I think I need a bowl of cream now. }:>
--
Argentium G. Tiger (ag42...@kc42.net)
"Goddamn uppity responsible sadist"
Spambuster: There are no numbers in my real email address.
Kook Monitor
<7qc5q0$9q0...@trace.seanet.com>, tr...@trace.seanet.com (the
dangerous dummox) wrote:
>What you don't clearly understand is the depth of what a M/s
>relationships is.
What she understands is the difference between fantasy and reality,
something the DD has shown himself to be more than a little vague
about. |twirling finger at ear|
>A Master's pleasure is by far more important than the physical pleasure
>of his slaves. If a Master wants the clit removed - he has every right to
>demand it.
A "master" who would maim his creatures on a momentary personal whim
does not deserve the title. Under the DD's standard, a "master" would
be justified in cutting out a slave's tongue because she said
something he objected to, or cutting off her hands if she masturbated
without permission, or gouging out her eyes if he didn't like the way
she looked at the guy/gal across the room, hm?
This might be hot fantasy for some folks, and more power to them, but
I don't think it's going to play in Peoria.
>Granted for many of you this is quite radical - but it is a place
>that many come to - both Master and slave - some more extreme
>than others.
As the DD demonstrates with his every post, there are plenty of
nut-cases floating around.
However, after nearly two decades in the kink business, I don't
believe I've heard of even *one* Master and slave who have "come to"
have this sort of mutilation performed. Maybe the DD is correct and I
need to "get out" more, but I've always considered "many" to fall into
the counting sequence right after "several."
Perhaps he'll share with us the names and email addresses of some of
these "many" femslaves he knows who have consented to having their
clits surgically removed so their partners will have all the fun?
I didn't think so.
Idjit.
Regards, Serion
Volunteer Kook Monitor
Calling all surgeons! Sign up now for the OUC's brand new "elective
mutilation" rider for your standard malpractice insurance!
skyd...@kc.net
> skyd...@kc.net wrote:
>> jkay <tr...@trace.seanet.com> wrote:
>>> A Master's pleasure is by far more important than the physical pleasure of his
>>> slaves. If a Master wants the clit removed - he has every right to demand it.
>> Bullshit. Even within M/s there is a need to address the needs of *BOTH*
>> partners in order to maintain a healthy relationship. Blindly ignoring
>> the needs of a slave is abuse. Plain. Simple. To the point.
> He's angling for attention (any attention) again. Why are you indulging him?
Because I have a headache and can't take it out on you. :)
Target shooting at clay pigeons helps keep me in practice
for when the flames are *really* meaningful.
> Anyroad, on the subject of my pleasure vs. your pleasure: They're not normally
> mutually exclusive things unless I missed some ultra obvious huge point.
Well, of *course* you did. See....you aren't a "Twue Mastew" (tm Soccermom?)
because you don't think of yourself as the only one in the relationship.
Silly Master.
> My own viewpoint is that the concept of "Big cat eats first" works well. This
> does NOT however imply "little cats starve". That'd be not only stupid, it'd
> be downright... [ grasps for a word implying stupidity of biblical proportion ]
> ... Ah yes, that'd be downright jkay.
I dunno. I never thought about it quite that way. But it *does* seem
to be saying that "little cats starve" when you look at JK's writing.
> *smirking and re-sheathing claws*
> I think I need a bowl of cream now. }:>
*ahem* Yes, Master.
*moonlight scampers off to get a bowl of cream for her Twue Mastew...*
Mistress Gryf
writes:
>
>A Master's pleasure is by far more important than the physical pleasure of
>his
>slaves. If a Master wants the clit removed - he has every right to demand it.
>
>
>If the slave does not wish to obey - she can run, ask for release, or she
>will
>be punished, and quite severely, to put her back into the space she craves.
>
>Granted for many of you this is quite radical - but it is a place that many
>come to - both Master and slave - some more extreme than others.
>
>A slave's primary focus is the hope of being found pleasing. Her drive is to
>take up every opportuity to secure that hope, to know her Master is pleased
>with her. And she also knows that every part of her belongs to her Master for
>
>Him to do with pretty much as He pleases - even to have her clit removed.
Boy, am I ever glad I don't know you, Johnathan Kay. If I did you'd already
have been arrested. What you're describing is a completely unrealistic
relationship.
NO dominant should EVER countenance the mutilation of their slave. The very
idea is abusive.
How dare you.
Don't bother answering. I can tell you're a One-True-Wayer, and I have no
interest in talking to One-True-Wayers.
Sorry, everyone else, but this just pushes my buttons like you wouldn't
believe.
Mistress Gryf
Owner of gerry and brian
"Leather is the only aphrodisiac you don't have to consume."
Sockermom9
>Well, of *course* you did. See....you aren't a "Twue Mastew" (tm Soccermom?)
>because you don't think of yourself as the only one in the relationship.
>
>Silly Master.
Another fucking keyboard, down the drain.
And, hey, if y'all wanna credit me for that one, I'll take the
blam^H^H^Hcredit. I think *My* hack of that one was "Ture Dominate" reflecting
both the typing and the comprehension skills of such, though.
>I dunno. I never thought about it quite that way. But it *does* seem
>to be saying that "little cats starve" when you look at JK's writing.
It also looks like "little cats *like* starving", and "big cats *like* starving
litle cats. And all such statements are bullshit to the extent that they don't
work for any given time period in any given relationship. And, the inage *my*
cats present to me when they walk away in disgust from one of my offerings
springs to mind. Tail in air, clear view of kitty-butthole, giving a clear
message that I have, once again, presumed too much, and will not be spoken to
for a length of time. Wonder how often JK's slaves give him the human
parallel. Oops, never mind, 35 relationships in twenty odd years; I think I
have my answer.
jkay
socke...@aol.com (Sockermom9) wrote:
>So, you're saying that surgical removal of the clit is something you thing is
>acceptable to ask of people to whom you have recently been intorduced? Just
>for the record?
We know very little of the relationship nor of what is or has been the dream
of either partner. I wouldn't call this relationship a 'recent introduction'.
Altho, we really don't know.
I would guess there is more to this relationship then what has been said
about it.
For the record tho I stand on my posting on the matter. One can have a very
intense short relationship that would rival any lengthy ones.
>And removal of the male's penis is something acceptable for female domainants
>to ask of their male slaves, of course.
Yes it is under the same circumstances.
Johnathan Kay
jkay
>jkay <tr...@trace.seanet.com> wrote:
>> teck...@sherrill.kiva.net (T. Eckhart) wrote:
>
>>> No. That is my basic thought. I'm very strongly opposed to folks
>>>wacking off body parts at the suggestion of others. In my personal
>>>opinion, that man sounds like an abuser not a dominant, definately not a
>>>good dominant whom in my opinion would value their partner's pleasure.
>
is.
>
>understand M/s and violently disagree that removing the clit is
>a viable thing to do to a slave...particularly in a new relationship
>that might not last out the year.
That's your opinion. Just as many who would agree with you would disagree with
you. Goin with the norm isn't always the right choice.
We really don't have all the facts about this relationship. We have no idea
how intense it is. Until we do there are opinions that can be expressed in a
number of directions.
>
>> A Master's pleasure is by far more important than the physical pleasure of
his
>> slaves. If a Master wants the clit removed - he has every right to demand
it.
>
>Bullshit. Even within M/s there is a need to address the needs of *BOTH*
>partners in order to maintain a healthy relationship. Blindly ignoring
>the needs of a slave is abuse. Plain. Simple. To the point.
It isn't blind. It's more a matter of choice and the way things are. There are
specific roles and duties of each sex in M/s. One either realizes what they
are or they don't. This couple may understand that more than you wish to
condone or understand.
>> If the slave does not wish to obey - she can run, ask for release, or she
will
>> be punished, and quite severely, to put her back into the space she craves.
>
>Not all slaves crave this.
I never stated nor implied they did. You made that assumption on your own.
Not all slaves in M/s crave this. You, in
>your deluded little fantasy world *THINK* that all slaves in M/s crave
>this.
What I think about it is my opinion. No one said you had to agree with it.
>
>> Granted for many of you this is quite radical - but it is a place that many
>> come to - both Master and slave - some more extreme than others.
>
>Your ravings are not radical, nor is the idea radical to many of us.
>What you do have is the delusional idea that you are rational and
>safe to play with.
I see your play is dependent on what 'the group' wants and not what you,
personally, want. There are a lot of people seeking a very extreme M/s
relationship. They identify with it on a level they know and believe is
natural for them. It isn't a role for them. Your problem is that you can't
accept that.
>> A slave's primary focus is the hope of being found pleasing. Her drive is
to
>> take up every opportuity to secure that hope, to know her Master is pleased
>> with her. And she also knows that every part of her belongs to her Master
for
>> Him to do with pretty much as He pleases - even to have her clit removed.
>
>Slaves in your dream world are this way. Slaves in the real world *MAY*
>be this way, or they may not be.
Then you haven't been around very much. Either that or you can't imagine that
if you met one of these kinds of slaves or Masters that you could 'hear' what
they have to say and accept it.
There are extremes in every kink. It scares the hell out of you that they are
on SSBB telling others about their lifestyles. And it scares the hell out of
you that anyone could agree to having their clit removed. You seem to be
identifying with your gender as if you are of a group think instead of
realizing that members of your gender can and will make decisions for
themselves regardless of what anyone else in that gender group thinks.
>
>Regardless of that point, the health risks on body modification is not
>something that should be entered into lightly. The removal of a body
>part should not be entered into lightly. This is why there are years
>of psychological assessments done to transexuals that are pre-op.
Pre-op has a lot more things going on then the simple removal of one's clit.
Even you should realize that. I suppose you objected greatly to Cosmopolitan's
article of vaginal contouring a few months back. Women want changes just as
men are looking for ways to enhance the shape and length of their penises.
>
>This type of body modification is not something to be done on a whim.
You don't know if it is being done on a whim.
Johnathan Kay
jkay
Kook Monitor <kookm...@usa.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Aug 99 20:39:28 GMT, in message
><7qc5q0$9q0...@trace.seanet.com>, tr...@trace.seanet.com (the
>dangerous dummox) wrote:
>
>>relationships is.
>
>something the DD has shown himself to be more than a little vague
>about. |twirling finger at ear|
We simply play different Serion. I happen to play on levels you are not
interested in. I am willing to go to some pretty extreme lengths. That bothers
you. So be it. You are open to play your way. I have every right to play my
way. Can't handle that - don't worry about it. Those who care to play at my
level will and there is really nothing you can do about that. Believe me when
I tell you that how I play is nothing compared to many others. But - unlike
you I don't play based on what others think to the extent that I have to
follow some norm. Who are you to say that I have to. I don't have to follow
what you and your band says is this or that.
>A Master's pleasure is by far more important than the physical pleasure
>>of his slaves. If a Master wants the clit removed - he has every right to
>>demand it.
>
>A "master" who would maim his creatures on a momentary personal whim
>does not deserve the title.
This isn't about maiming. It's about honor, sacrifice and dedication. There
are those who would object to your plans for Ladygold as to your legal push to
own her outright.
Under the DD's standard, a "master" would
>be justified in cutting out a slave's tongue because she said
>something he objected to, or cutting off her hands if she masturbated
>without permission, or gouging out her eyes if he didn't like the way
>she looked at the guy/gal across the room, hm?
In some countries and through some means available to certain people I would
guess this to be something that does go on - like I said - many others
practice in realms of extremes you know nothing about or are unwilling to
accept even the possibility of. But for the record - I would not go to the
extremes you just stated.
>
>This might be hot fantasy for some folks, and more power to them, but
>I don't think it's going to play in Peoria.
Fuck Peoria. If those of us who do BDSM had to go along with Peoria we
wouldn't be doing BDSM.
>
>>Granted for many of you this is quite radical - but it is a place
>>that many come to - both Master and slave - some more extreme
>>than others.
>
>As the DD demonstrates with his every post, there are plenty of
>nut-cases floating around.
There are plenty outside BDSM who would call us all into BDSM nut-cases.
Or don't you remember DSM-III?!
>
>However, after nearly two decades in the kink business, I don't
>believe I've heard of even *one* Master and slave who have "come to"
>have this sort of mutilation performed. Maybe the DD is correct and I
>need to "get out" more, but I've always considered "many" to fall into
>the counting sequence right after "several."
>
>Perhaps he'll share with us the names and email addresses of some of
>these "many" femslaves he knows who have consented to having their
>clits surgically removed so their partners will have all the fun?
Start with BME. As for supplying you with names and email addresses - even I
respect one's desire for privacy. Check out bodyart newsgroups.
Johnathan Kay
jkay
mstrs...@aol.com.FLUFF (Mistress Gryf) wrote:
>In article <7qc5q0$9q0...@trace.seanet.com>, tr...@trace.seanet.com (jkay)
>writes:
>Boy, am I ever glad I don't know you, Johnathan Kay. If I did you'd already
>have been arrested.
Hmmm....that's interesting. On what charge?
What you're describing is a completely unrealistic
>relationship.
>NO dominant should EVER countenance the mutilation of their slave. The very
>idea is abusive.
Abusive by who's standards? Keep in mind that there are a lot of people who
would like to see what BDSMers do made illegal. Afterall, some would say that
if you are doing BDSM now the next thing will be killing people. And we all
know how invalid that arguement is.
Johnathan Kay
Spyral Fox
mstrs...@aol.com.FLUFF (Mistress Gryf) writes:
>In article <7qc5q0$9q0...@trace.seanet.com>, tr...@trace.seanet.com (jkay)
>writes:
>
>>
>>A Master's pleasure is by far more important than the physical pleasure of
>>his
>>slaves. If a Master wants the clit removed - he has every right to demand
>it.
>>
>>
>>If the slave does not wish to obey - she can run, ask for release, or she
>>will
>>be punished, and quite severely, to put her back into the space she craves.
>>
>>Granted for many of you this is quite radical - but it is a place that many
>>come to - both Master and slave - some more extreme than others.
>>
>>A slave's primary focus is the hope of being found pleasing. Her drive is to
>
>>take up every opportuity to secure that hope, to know her Master is pleased
>>with her. And she also knows that every part of her belongs to her Master
>for
>>
>>Him to do with pretty much as He pleases - even to have her clit removed.
>
>Boy, am I ever glad I don't know you, Johnathan Kay. If I did you'd already
>have been arrested. What you're describing is a completely unrealistic
>relationship.
>NO dominant should EVER countenance the mutilation of their slave. The very
>idea is abusive.
>
Hey, it could be worse. I'm updating my website, and I just adore
it when someone hands me ammo on a silver platter. IMO, this
will look really good right underneath the bit in my article on JK's
rules where I discuss the part about
= my limits do not have to be respected - i trust my Master to <br>
= take me past them when He expects that i am ready - .
Or maybe the part about
= i will not hesitate in my obedience to my Master.
It amazes me that an idjit like JK has enough of a brain stem to
even breathe, let alone to type.
- - Spyral Fox
--
Owned & Operated by Lord Richard. ("Ani l'dodi...")
SSBB Diplomatic Corps & San Diego Resources,
http://members.aol.com/spyralfox/
SSBB Cookbook: http://members.aol.com/ssbbcooks/
Depooty Charter Enforcer (CLG)
Spyral Fox
>Perhaps he'll share with us the names and email addresses of some of
>these "many" femslaves he knows who have consented to having their
>clits surgically removed so their partners will have all the fun?
>
>I didn't think so.
Unless he's hanging out with women whose families practiced
clitoridectomy? I know several Somali Moslem immigrants
qwhere the older daughters were "circumsized"[1] prior to coming
to the USA. They've been having big trouble finding any USA
MD willing to do the operation to the younger women, although
there are some rumors about the slicing being done in non-
sterile conditions by old women at homes. In these cases,
there is often pressure from older women in the family who
survived the operation, and hwo believe that it will make the
girl a better wife later, since she is unlikely to commmit
adultery or even make demands for sex upon her own
legal spouse, since there would be so little in it (in terms of
sexual pleasure) for her, and that she would thus be a better
vessel for raising her own husband's children.
[1] while this operation varies considerably from area to area
and the mildest form, placing a smal slit in the clitoral hood,
could probably be compared to male circumcision in which the
foreskin is removed, in these particular cases I consider the
term a gross misnomer since we're talking about excision
of the clitoris and the inner labia. The scar tissue which forms
is often quite thick, and in some cases the proces of losing
virginity later is severely horrible, since the inner labial stubs
are sometimes stitched together. Needless to say, infections
are rampant.
Jason Crowell
>In article <19990829181554...@ng-ff1.aol.com>,
> socke...@aol.com (Sockermom9) wrote:
>
>>So, you're saying that surgical removal of the clit is something you thing is
>>acceptable to ask of people to whom you have recently been intorduced? Just
>>for the record?
>
>We know very little of the relationship nor of what is or has been the dream
>of either partner. I wouldn't call this relationship a 'recent introduction'.
>Altho, we really don't know.
I would call it a recent introduction, as that is what the original poster
called it.
>I would guess there is more to this relationship then what has been said
>about it.
>
>For the record tho I stand on my posting on the matter. One can have a very
>intense short relationship that would rival any lengthy ones.
When most short-term relationships end, all the wabbly bits work. But then,
you really could not care less about the other person's health and well-being.
>>And removal of the male's penis is something acceptable for female domainants
>>to ask of their male slaves, of course.
>
>Yes it is under the same circumstances.
You don't even know what circumstances that you're talking about.
>Johnathan Kay
Jason Crowell
snip
>Or she--or he!--can laugh uproariously at such a thought, dump the pasta in the
>turkey's lap, and find a master of quality.
Or better yet, the large McDonald's coffee...
NBarnes
> > He's angling for attention (any attention) again. Why are you > >indulging him?
> Because I have a headache and can't take it out on you. :)
This has to be the best reason for following up to JK that I've
ever seen.
NBarnes
Rae
>Boy, am I ever glad I don't know you, Johnathan Kay.
<snip>
>Sorry, everyone else, but this just pushes my buttons like
>you wouldn't believe.
Yeah, but that was the whole point. He doesn't post here to offer anything of
value. He posts here to stir people up and get attention. He doesn't actually
_do_ the things he advocates (although from what I've read, he does some
pretty stoopid things - oh, wait - they're not stoopid - they're "edgy"). I
surmise from jk's writing that what a TRUE Master does is create an elaborate
and unrealistic fantasy world, live out small pieces of it, preferably when
people are watching, and claim to be living the whole fantasy on a daily basis.
You don't do this? Then, obviously, you're not the edgeplayer he is. You
don't understand the depths of a TRUE M/s relationship. Besides, the lurkers
support him in email. They're just afraid to say so here.
Rae
Joseph
Spyral Fox <spyr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990830041227...@ngol02.aol.com...
(sarcasm on)
What you describe is a very small price to pay in order to satisfy a "True
Master", wouldn't you say Spyral? After all, who wouldn't suffer an
infection or scar tissue problems for the opportunity to serve this kind of
"Dominate"?
(sarcasm off)
I have a couple of friends from school who had this little operation
performed on them before emigrating from their native land, and I'm sure
they'd be happy to "enlighten" any Dom who would attempt to force this
surgery on a sub. Unfortunately, their form of enlightenment would probably
involve a rusty pair of scissors. The dom in question would be left with a
stronger appreciation of just what this surgery involved, however.
Just a thought,
Joseph
Egoslayer1
that such actions are ludacrous and the person involved needs some
talk time with an expert if you know what I mean...but..."to take away a
woman's ability to feel anything sexual, to prohibit her permanently
inaccurate statement. I have personall experience with someone who can
achieve orgasm through kissing thier neck only, or sucking on thier
nipples...I am certain that missing her clitoris, while a hinderance,
would NOT keep her from "ever acheiving any kind of sexual pleasure" by
any means. So while we are in agreement as to the wisdom of such a move,
your statement is grossly inaccurate to the extent that I could not
resist letting you know. Are you so terribily clitoris fixated? Do you
achieve orgasm regularly? or at all?
I am not flaming, just asking in a conversational tone so don't
overreact. I just don't care to take *triple* the word count to come
across as nice, even though that is my intent.
Egoslayer1
*****
In article <7q78vb$hpp$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
"whimsygirl" <whims...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> fem...@nomail.com wrote in message <37C6E14C...@nomail.com>...
> >Hello everyone,
> >
> >I was talking to someone who is on a list where they are having a
topic
> >about a slave who said her Master asked her to have her clit removed
in
> >order so she can focus only on his pleasures. We are talking about a
D/s
> >couple that just got together, not a couple that has been together
for
> >years. What I understand is this slave is willing to go forth with
this
> >procedure for her Master.
> >
> >Was wondering what everyone's thoughts where on this?
>
> This horrifies me in different ways: as a feminist and it's genitial
> mutilation that is irreversible and it just reminds me to much of
> non-consensual gentital mutilation in general<shudder>.
> Plus..to take away a woman's ability to feel anything sexual, to
prohibit
> her permanently from ever acheiving any kind of sexual pleasure seems
more
> misogynistic to me vs Dominant or kinky.
> nancy..still shuddering at the thought
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
skyd...@kc.net
*takes a bow* See? Even JK has uses. *snrk*
moonlight - who still has the damnable headache.
jkay
The reasons and the relationships between what happens to females from the
Middle East and what happens with females involved in an extreme M/s
relationship are quite a bit different.
Johnathan Kay
T. Eckhart
>>>>wacking off body parts at the suggestion of others. In my personal
>>>>opinion, that man sounds like an abuser not a dominant, definately not a
>>>>good dominant whom in my opinion would value their partner's pleasure.
>>
>>> What you don't clearly understand is the depth of what a M/s relationships
>is.
I think I do.
Now in this newsgroup, I believe we are talking about consensual
slavery, not slavery in the historical sense.
I did not buy my slaves, they became my slaves of their own free
will. They entrust me with their care and since I cannot know if we will
be together until death nor that I will be the last to die, I do not feel
it is good care to ask them to remove body parts. They might want or need
those body parts after I'm gone.
If they want to remove something that has to be their decision,
something they themselves have thought about and do for their own reasons.
Removal is removal, it is gone it cannot be replaced or grow back and it
is because of this I feel I as an owner cannot require or suggest even
that a body part be removed.
--
--
Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips, & Chains,
TammyJo Eckhart (teck...@kiva.net)
http://www.kiva.net/~teckhart/
"I'm going to take you higher, and that's no lie." -- Savage Garden
carmel
7qc54i$9q0...@trace.seanet.com...
> In article <7q78vb$hpp$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>,
> "whimsygirl" <whims...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >This horrifies me in different ways: as a feminist and it's genitial
> >mutilation that is irreversible and it just reminds me to much of
> >non-consensual gentital mutilation in general<shudder>.
> >Plus..to take away a woman's ability to feel anything sexual, to prohibit
> >her permanently from ever acheiving any kind of sexual pleasure seems
more
> >misogynistic to me vs Dominant or kinky.
> >nancy..still shuddering at the thought
>
hormonal
> reactions to nipple and breast play, kissing, and vaginal and anal play.
>
Really? You've tried it, have you?
--
car...@freesurf.SPICEDHAM.ch
(we're all vegetarians here)
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
w.c.kelly (1913-1973)
Spyral Fox
<mstr_...@yahoo.com> writes:
>I have a couple of friends from school who had this little operation
>performed on them before emigrating from their native land, and I'm sure
>they'd be happy to "enlighten" any Dom who would attempt to force this
>surgery on a sub. Unfortunately, their form of enlightenment would probably
>involve a rusty pair of scissors. The dom in question would be left with a
>stronger appreciation of just what this surgery involved, however.
IMO, it's more likely that they would NOT use rusty scissors.
I think that the traditional tool, a broken shell, is more likley.
Kook Monitor
<7qcuj2$b98...@trace.seanet.com>, tr...@trace.seanet.com (the
dangerous dummox) wrote:
>I have every right to play my way.
*Every* right? This guy is seriously reality-challenged.
Sure, the DD can play with himself anyway he likes - if he wants to
chop off his own gonads, that's his prerogative. When he starts
mutilating other folks, or influencing them to mutilate themselves,
he's opening the door for a quick trip to the hoosegow.
>In some countries and through some means available to certain
>people I would guess this to be something that does go on...
So what does this have to do with BDSM? Does the DD "guess" that
*all* abusive behavior is the same as BDSM?
I suppose that by the DD's rules, if Vito and Vito decided to go grab
him and make him their sex-slave, he wouldn't mind if they decided to
castrate him, cut out his tongue and leave him naked on a street
corner in downtown Seattle, with a loaded pistol stuck up his butt,
just so they could have fun, eh? After all, it wouldn't be about
maiming, it would be about "honor, sacrifice and dedication?"
Idjit.
Regards, Serion
Volunteer Kook Monitor
__________________ (This space left as blank as the DD's brain.)
IronWynch
carmel wrote:
> > Clitoral removal does not remove all sexual feelings. There is still
> hormonal
> > reactions to nipple and breast play, kissing, and vaginal and anal play.
> >
> > Johnathan Kay
>
> Really? You've tried it, have you?
Orgasms are not as "simple" as to be totally dependant on one piece of
flesh. The body is full of nerves that when stimulated, give pleasure.
Orgasm itself, by the way, is induced by a hormone, which is why women
have had orgams from nipple stimulation, erotic dreams, or even having
one's hip broken (the latter, a case I heard about from a friend who's a
surgical tech).
Forced genital mutilation is a cultural problem that has more to do with
a disregard for human rights in general, than sexism in and of
itself...and the term "human rights" is still, at this point in
his/herstory, relative to the situation. The psychological consequences
of such a thing far outweigh (IMO) the physical. There are pretty hard
realities a person has to deal with whether their trim was done by a
barber or a surgeon.
The physical reality of it, though, and the reason so many women manage
to live productive lives in spite of being trimmed, and the reason many
of the traditions around FGM are carried on by the women is because, to
some degree, it is seen as "cleaner", and either doesn't interrupt
reasonable sexual function, or the interruptions are seen as tolerable,
and maybe even noble, by the women who have had it done, and who do it.
There are so many cultures that practice it, in so many different ways,
and for so many different reasons that it's hard to say, cut and dry,
that it is a wrong thing to do for everyone. I know that I wouldn't do
it, and that if someone who was at risk needed refuge from it, I would
give all I could to protect them...Reason being, even with all the
safety precautions, there are also some pretty horrible things that can
go wrong, as with any surgery. I know I can't save the world, but I can
try to protect one person at a time. Nobody should be forced to take
that kind of a risk, if they don't want to.
Whether someone *chooses* to have their genitalia altered, however, is
none of my business. It's hard for me to say, since I'm not a telepath,
whether someone is truly doing it to please their Partner, or if they
are doing it because they wanted to all along, and finally found someone
who wouldn't be put off by it. That's got to be a major concern for
alot of people who want it done...whether it will make them totally
unattractive.
I guess, on that note, I have some questions for the Dominants who
haven't had experience with this before...How would you deal with the
prospect of a female partner who either had no clitoris, or got
absolutely no stimulation from the clitoris?
Would that be the end of the relationship for you? or would you at least
try to figure out what other hot-spots there may be? Would you feel
comfortable discussing it? Would you think less of her if she had
chosen to have her clitoris removed, or other major alterations?
~IronWynch
LadyGold
LadyGold (at) planetarydefense (dot) org
On Sun, 29 Aug 99 20:18:49 GMT, tr...@trace.seanet.com (jkay)
wrote:
>BDSM isn't so much about what is real but what is imagined is
>happening and the anticipation that follows and possibly drives the scene.
Aaaaahhhhh. Now I understand. The boychild hasn't gotten past
the point where he thinks we all make this stuff up. No, jk...
we are not those two 14 year olds with 2400 baud modems, making
everything up. Some of us really do live as owner and property.
This is why we get so upset when you talk about some of the things
you do. We consider the reality of carving a name on a body; or
the reality of trying to manage a household naked and in 5 inch
heels.
We don't live in our heads. We live in reality. Since we
actually do consider the impact of playing on the edge, we have to
concern ourselves with all the possible outcomes. Whereas someone
who knows they are only going to do something in their imagination
doesn't have to be concerned.
Our "rules" may not be what makes you hot, but they work in
reality. Our concern with safety, may not be "hot" (although
several people here do get turned on by latex gloves, IMS.) but it
means we can live to play again.
It would be ever so much better, though, if you'd put a little
note on your posts explaining that they are how you imagine things
will be not what you really do.
LadyGold, High Sheriff of Nettingham, OCF
--
"Those who restrain desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be
restrained." -- William Blake
LadyGold
LadyGold (at) planetarydefense (dot) org
On Mon, 30 Aug 99 03:42:26 GMT, tr...@trace.seanet.com (jkay)
wrote:
>This isn't about maiming. It's about honor, sacrifice and dedication. There
>are those who would object to your plans for Ladygold as to your legal push to
>own her outright.
Er..um..ah.. not to put too fine a point on it - but what plans
might those be, eh?
As for Serion's "legal" right to own me (assuming that's what you
intended to say) - we know that he can't so long as we live in the
United States. However, I have promised my total obedience to
Serion; for all intents and purposes that's functions the same as
owning me. But you see, jk, we can distinguish between reality
and fantasy.
While we're on "honor, sacrifice and dedication" - try this on for
size. I've said that I'd step in front of a bullet to save
Serion's life. Compare that to a "Twue Dominate" who would push
his sub into the bullet's path. See the difference?
LadyGold, High Sheriff of Nettingham, OCF
--
To the man who only has a hammer, everything he encounters begins
to look like a nail.
-- Abraham H. Maslow
Xiphias Gladius
> Aaaaahhhhh. Now I understand. The boychild hasn't gotten past
> the point where he thinks we all make this stuff up. No, jk...
> we are not those two 14 year olds with 2400 baud modems, making
> everything up.
Right. We've got 9600 baud modems, now.
- Ian
--
Marriage, n: The state or condition of a community consisting of a master,
a mistress, and two slaves, making, in all, two. -- Ambrose Bierce
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ian
SSBB Diplomatic Corps; Boston, Massachusetts
Velvet Wood
> Aughh! It's yet another JK thread!
> Please, people, have some pity on us and at
> least flag as [JK] any thread where you're
> replying to or not ignoring JK's posts.
> Naming no names, but there are those on this
> newsgroup who have working killfiles and find it
> more interesting to watch paint dry than read
> another predictable JK thread.
>
> --
> Frites
> (Email via mindspring.com)
Seconded with much enthusiasm.
I really like watching red paint dry more than I do any other color. It's the
whole psychological thing of it looking *so* much like blood and then *whoa!*
it's not getting darker as it drys, how interesting. Watching white paint
dry in an area with lots of bugs can also be cool...by the time your wall
drys it's no longer white, but polka-dotted.
Now black paint, that's boring. I'd *almost* rather read jkay's drivel than
I would watch black paint dry.
Velvet
Sockermom9
>I've said that I'd step in front of a bullet to save
>Serion's life. Compare that to a "Twue Dominate" who would push
>his sub into the bullet's path. See the difference?
LOL! No, he probably doesn't.
Rae
writes:
>I have personall experience with someone who can
>achieve orgasm through kissing thier neck only, or sucking on thier
>nipples...I am certain that missing her clitoris, while a hinderance,
>would NOT keep her from "ever acheiving any kind of sexual pleasure" by
>any means. So while we are in agreement as to the wisdom of such a move,
>your statement is grossly inaccurate to the extent that I could not
>resist letting you know. Are you so terribily clitoris fixated? Do you
>achieve orgasm regularly? or at all?
Sexual arousal and orgasms vary from person to person. Me, personally, I can't
acheive orgasm without clitoral stimulation. Just as many men can't acheive
orgasm without penile stimulation. I can get aroused from other things, but I
can't reach orgasm, or even get close. Well, just close enough to get really
damned frustrated. (Again giving thanks to the person who invented vibrators.)
So I for one would say that this statement is _not_ grossly inaccurate.
Rae
Terribly Clitoris Fixated, thankyouverymuch.
TyMeDwn1st
>Oops, never mind, 35 relationships in twenty odd years; I think I
>have my answer.
Twenty definitely odd years, apparently.
Ty
Who is mostly just
a slightly skewed
Donna Reed
Official Depooty of Sheriff of Nettingham's Charter Enforcers on SSBB
(To reply via email, simply remove my pearls...)
Sockermom9
>Twenty definitely odd years, apparently.
Or one odd year, repeated twenty times.
jkay
teck...@sherrill.kiva.net (T. Eckhart) wrote:
>>>jkay <tr...@trace.seanet.com> wrote:
>>>> In article <slrn7sft7f....@sherrill.kiva.net>,
>>>> What you don't clearly understand is the depth of what a M/s
relationships
>>is.
>
> I think I do.
> Now in this newsgroup, I believe we are talking about consensual
>slavery, not slavery in the historical sense.
> I did not buy my slaves, they became my slaves of their own free
>will. They entrust me with their care and since I cannot know if we will
>be together until death nor that I will be the last to die, I do not feel
>it is good care to ask them to remove body parts. They might want or need
>those body parts after I'm gone.
> If they want to remove something that has to be their decision,
>something they themselves have thought about and do for their own reasons.
>Removal is removal, it is gone it cannot be replaced or grow back and it
>is because of this I feel I as an owner cannot require or suggest even
>that a body part be removed.
Well that's you and your thoughts on the subject. It's the way you do things.
And just because it is the way you do things it does not mean that everyone
has to feel the way you do.
Johnathan Kay
>
jkay
IronWynch <iron...@mybdsm.com> wrote:
>I guess, on that note, I have some questions for the Dominants who
>haven't had experience with this before...How would you deal with the
>prospect of a female partner who either had no clitoris, or got
>absolutely no stimulation from the clitoris?
Wouldn't bother me if she found other aspects of sexuality and BDSM fun to do
and pleasureable.
I happen to know a gal that doesn't have a clit due to a genetic issue. It's a
bit troublesome for her - not the lack of a clit, but the, well it's not a
disease, its I guess a rare defect. But in any case she doesn't have one and
has gotten along fine without one simply because she doesn't and can't know
what it is like to have one. What she does have a great deal of fun with tho
is anal sex.
>
>Would that be the end of the relationship for you? or would you at least
>try to figure out what other hot-spots there may be? Would you feel
>comfortable discussing it? Would you think less of her if she had
>chosen to have her clitoris removed, or other major alterations?
Let's put this into another light - what if the person you are involved with
gets into a serious accident and she becomes paralyzed or she seriously has
the vaginal area of her body injured? Should I run? Nope. And if I met a gal
who went through that - well - would depend on a lot more than what was
missing before I would make the decision to continue with her or not.
Clits just aren't everything!
Johnathan Kay
jkay
All I got to say about you at this point Serion is I can't remember that last
beer that I ever had that could get me even this far in thoughts! You really
are off the deep end.
Johnathan Kay
jkay
LadyGold <ladygold....@planetarydefense.org> wrote:
>WARNING: Do not reply directly to this post. Instead send mail to
>LadyGold (at) planetarydefense (dot) org
>
>wrote:
>
>>BDSM isn't so much about what is real but what is imagined is
>>happening and the anticipation that follows and possibly drives the scene.
>
>the point where he thinks we all make this stuff up. No, jk...
>we are not those two 14 year olds with 2400 baud modems, making
>
>This is why we get so upset when you talk about some of the things
>you do. We consider the reality of carving a name on a body; or
>the reality of trying to manage a household naked and in 5 inch
>heels.
>
>We don't live in our heads. We live in reality. Since we
>actually do consider the impact of playing on the edge, we have to
>concern ourselves with all the possible outcomes. Whereas someone
>who knows they are only going to do something in their imagination
>doesn't have to be concerned.
>
>Our "rules" may not be what makes you hot, but they work in
>reality. Our concern with safety, may not be "hot" (although
>several people here do get turned on by latex gloves, IMS.) but it
>means we can live to play again.
>
>It would be ever so much better, though, if you'd put a little
>note on your posts explaining that they are how you imagine things
>will be not what you really do.
>
You and Serion and others can keep this shit up all you want. Won't stop or
change what I post, what I do in public, what I do in various scenes, who
carries the rules document on various sites, where it gets published, etc,
etc, etc. Or how others practice their kink who have been influenced by my
postings, seen me play, talked to me, etc.
The two of you live off so little information about me it's a wonder where in
the world you come up with all the shit and misinterpretations you come up
with.
And what's worse is why you persist.
Johnathan Kay
T. Eckhart
I'm sorry if you feel I suggested otherwise.
I was asked for an opinion and I gave my opinion. You were the
one who implied I didn't understand something and therefore implied (to my
reading) that I shouldn't have made my opinion known. That is why I
replied again.
T. Eckhart
>I guess, on that note, I have some questions for the Dominants who
>haven't had experience with this before...How would you deal with the
>prospect of a female partner who either had no clitoris, or got
>absolutely no stimulation from the clitoris?
>
>try to figure out what other hot-spots there may be? Would you feel
>comfortable discussing it? Would you think less of her if she had
>chosen to have her clitoris removed, or other major alterations?
Since I don't focus on the sex and I don't examine my partner I
doubt it would make any difference depending on why and how.
If it happened non-consensually or she regrets it now that is a
big emotional issue that should be handled by herself and professionals,
I'm not qualified to aid in that emotional healing. But this is the same
attitude I have toward all trauma regardless of the sex or gender of my
partner.
Spyral Fox
(Sockermom9) writes:
>LadyGold writes:
>
>>I've said that I'd step in front of a bullet to save
>>Serion's life. Compare that to a "Twue Dominate" who would push
>>his sub into the bullet's path. See the difference?
>
>LOL! No, he probably doesn't.
Yeah. He's pushing her only because he thinks she'd want
to do it. ;-) After all, he's supposed to be the center of her
universe. It says so in the "rules."
jkay
David Weinshenker
> I think *My* hack of that one was "Ture Dominate" reflecting
> both the typing and the comprehension skills of such, though.
Then there's "tampoon"... jk came up with that one himself, IIRC.
For some reason - I can't help it - that particular typo
just severely cracks me up laughing! go figure...
-dave w
Xiphias Gladius
Because it looks like "harpoon"? "The Tampoon -- for your heavy flow
days, or for hunting whales. The barbs make sure it won't fall out in
either mode."
lady angel
Xiphias Gladius <i...@io.com> wrote in message
news:7qlr1s$gaa$4...@hiram.io.com...
: David Weinshenker <daz...@grin.net> wrote:
: > Sockermom9 wrote:
: >> I think *My* hack of that one was "Ture Dominate" reflecting
: >> both the typing and the comprehension skills of such, though.
:
: > Then there's "tampoon"... jk came up with that one himself, IIRC.
:
: > For some reason - I can't help it - that particular typo
: > just severely cracks me up laughing! go figure...
:
: Because it looks like "harpoon"? "The Tampoon -- for your heavy flow
: days, or for hunting whales. The barbs make sure it won't fall out in
: either mode."
:
: - Ian
Now this is so unfair! You knew that you should have put a keyboard
warning on this one!*LOL* I am sending you the bill for my new keyboard,
Ian.*S*
*wiping monitor*
*getting a towel for my keyboard*
lady angel
~Remove the kitty to reply~
guttersnipe
> David Weinshenker <daz...@grin.net> wrote:
> > Sockermom9 wrote:
> >> I think *My* hack of that one was "Ture Dominate" reflecting
> >> both the typing and the comprehension skills of such, though.
>
> > Then there's "tampoon"... jk came up with that one himself, IIRC.
>
> > For some reason - I can't help it - that particular typo
> > just severely cracks me up laughing! go figure...
>
> Because it looks like "harpoon"? "The Tampoon -- for your heavy flow
> days, or for hunting whales. The barbs make sure it won't fall out in
> either mode."
No, no, no. He was mispelling it. He meant to type, "tangpoon."
Heidi
the impudent guttersnipe
davo
>>>"g" == guttersnipe <msg...@mindspring.com> writes:
g> In article <7qlr1s$gaa$4...@hiram.io.com>, Xiphias Gladius
g> <i...@io.com> wrote:
>> > Then there's "tampoon"... jk came up with that one himself,
>> Because it looks like "harpoon"? "The Tampoon -- for your heavy
>> flow days, or for hunting whales. The barbs make sure it won't
>> fall out in either mode."
g> No, no, no. He was mispelling it. He meant to type, "tangpoon."
No, no, no. He meant that thing he uses to stir his morning breakfast
drink ... you know .. The Tangspoon.
davo
--
Davo ["Slit and search ... it's not just for D&D anymore"]
Sockermom9
>Then there's "tampoon"... jk came up with that one himself, IIRC.
>
>For some reason - I can't help it - that particular typo
>just severely cracks me up laughing! go figure...
Well, in the car business, we always used to comment when someone would
*finally* buy that bright-yellow cavalier, "Well, there's an ass for every
seat!"
My fave JKism was the "The female must have an ample number of breasts". The
image just slays me.
lady angel
Sockermom9 <socke...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990902122226...@ng-fy1.aol.com...
: Dave wrote:
:
: >Then there's "tampoon"... jk came up with that one himself, IIRC.
: >
: >For some reason - I can't help it - that particular typo
: >just severely cracks me up laughing! go figure...
:
: Well, in the car business, we always used to comment when someone
would
: *finally* buy that bright-yellow cavalier, "Well, there's an ass for
every
: seat!"
:
: My fave JKism was the "The female must have an ample number of
breasts". The
: image just slays me.
:
: Lynn
<ALERT>
Non-con breath play
</ALERT>
Have you ever choked on a piece of ice? I inhaled a rather large piece
while reading this.*LOL*
Keyboard warnings, please!
Rae
(Sockermom9) writes:
>My fave JKism was the "The female must have an ample number of breasts". The
>image just slays me.
To be fair, it was "amount" of breasts, not "number" of breasts.
Personally, the JKisms I like best are the ones where he really means what he
says, rather than the ones in which the language has just escaped him. The
latter are just too common.
Rae