Home Improvement
ant...@pobox.com
gratifying to rip off the Hideous Violet Tile. It came off far too easy,
though. I've known for a while that there was a small amount of degraded
grout, but it seems things were worse than they appeared. The drywall was
soaked. It came away without the use of a hammer. The rock wool
insulation pulled out like a bunch of soaked towels. Then, the really bad
news became apparent; I went to lean on a stud and it _squished_! Studs
shouldn't do that. Especially in load-bearing walls. I'm glad I didn't
wait any longer or I could have ended up with outdoor plumbing, if you
catch my meaning.
Well, I finally got the wall aired out and essentially completely rebuilt.
(Not a trivial task.) Put in some new fiberglass and sealed it all up with
greenboard. It is now the strongest partof the house, I suspect. Finally,
the new white tile went up.
It doesn't quite look professional. Given that it was my first tile job,
though, I must admit that it looks pretty damn snazzy. Feels much
cleaner, too. I'm happy.
Antryg - I kinda feel like Al Borland. :)
--
ant...@pobox.com - "Everyone should have a sig quote. This one is mine."
http://www.pobox.com/~antryg (sadly outdated)
Imperialist Running Pig
>It doesn't quite look professional. Given that it was my first tile job,
>though, I must admit that it looks pretty damn snazzy. Feels much
>cleaner, too. I'm happy.
What is this, the fourth "first sniggler tile job" in as many months?
Anyone else wanna come out of the woodwork?
--
____
Piglet \bi/ "But male conditioning, nonetheless. You
pig...@piglet.org \/ were not treated like a woman." [to Julie]
James Nicoll
>Well, I finally had the money to redo the upstairs bathroom. It was very
>gratifying to rip off the Hideous Violet Tile. It came off far too easy,
>though. I've known for a while that there was a small amount of degraded
>grout, but it seems things were worse than they appeared. The drywall was
>soaked. It came away without the use of a hammer. The rock wool
>insulation pulled out like a bunch of soaked towels. Then, the really bad
>news became apparent; I went to lean on a stud and it _squished_! Studs
>shouldn't do that. Especially in load-bearing walls. I'm glad I didn't
>wait any longer or I could have ended up with outdoor plumbing, if you
>catch my meaning.
I've had two moments liek that with the store: once when we
ripped up the porch deck to discover that all of the supports on one
side had rotted away and there was nothing holding up that side except
custom and the other when my renovator pointed out a previous owner
had taken out a load bearing wall without compensating for the loss
of load bearing ability.
I seem to have carpenter ants now. Nrg.
--
"Can i have my midlife crisis now while I am young and agile enough
to enjoy it?"
Bezel
Imperialist Running Pig <pig...@panix.com> wrote:
>ant...@pobox.com, in article <7k24d3$pbs$1...@news1.rmi.net>, dixit:
>>It doesn't quite look professional. Given that it was my first tile job,
>>though, I must admit that it looks pretty damn snazzy. Feels much
>>cleaner, too. I'm happy.
>
>What is this, the fourth "first sniggler tile job" in as many months?
>Anyone else wanna come out of the woodwork?
I'm nerving myself up to rip out the paneling in the den and replace
it with drywall. There's something so scary about it... a little internal
voice that screams, "You're thinking of taking apart the *house*? What
gives you the feeling that would be a good idea?!"
--Bezel
Matthew Daly
>In article <7k3a81$j72$1...@panix7.panix.com>,
>Imperialist Running Pig <pig...@panix.com> wrote:
>>ant...@pobox.com, in article <7k24d3$pbs$1...@news1.rmi.net>, dixit:
>>>It doesn't quite look professional. Given that it was my first tile job,
>>>though, I must admit that it looks pretty damn snazzy. Feels much
>>>cleaner, too. I'm happy.
>>
>>What is this, the fourth "first sniggler tile job" in as many months?
>>Anyone else wanna come out of the woodwork?
Give me time. Probably by the end of the year.
>I'm nerving myself up to rip out the paneling in the den and replace
>it with drywall. There's something so scary about it... a little internal
>voice that screams, "You're thinking of taking apart the *house*? What
>gives you the feeling that would be a good idea?!"
Think of it this way: you just called it _the_ house. After you change a
wall, your internal voice will call it _my_ house.
I don't remember which of my parents gave me the following mantra: The
First House Is For Practice.
Then again, I'm starting to pick up on the second mantra, which is You
Could Make Enough Money With A Second Programming Job To Pay For A Really
Good Contractor.
-Matthew, anyone hiring?
---
Matthew Daly mwd...@pobox.com http://www.frontiernet.net/~mwdaly/
My propositions are elucidatory in this way: he who understands
them finally recognizes them as senseless ... whereof one cannot
speak thereof one must be silent.
Bezel
Matthew Daly <mwd...@pobox.com> wrote:
>I'll never forget the time that be...@vnet.net (Bezel) said:
>
>>In article <7k3a81$j72$1...@panix7.panix.com>,
>>Imperialist Running Pig <pig...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>ant...@pobox.com, in article <7k24d3$pbs$1...@news1.rmi.net>, dixit:
>>>>It doesn't quite look professional. Given that it was my first tile job,
>>>>though, I must admit that it looks pretty damn snazzy. Feels much
>>>>cleaner, too. I'm happy.
>>>
>>>What is this, the fourth "first sniggler tile job" in as many months?
>>>Anyone else wanna come out of the woodwork?
>
>Give me time. Probably by the end of the year.
>
>>I'm nerving myself up to rip out the paneling in the den and replace
>>it with drywall. There's something so scary about it... a little internal
>>voice that screams, "You're thinking of taking apart the *house*? What
>>gives you the feeling that would be a good idea?!"
>
>Think of it this way: you just called it _the_ house. After you change a
>wall, your internal voice will call it _my_ house.
Well, truth be told, the internal voice still tends to think of it
as TDG's house, even though I've lived there for a year now. Perhaps
you're right, and taking it apart and putting it back together again
will give it a new emotional status for me. Wrecking balls away!
>I don't remember which of my parents gave me the following mantra: The
>First House Is For Practice.
This is certainly the house to practice on, because it's been practiced
on before - different pieces were clearly built at different times, leading
to oddities such as mid-room floor level changes and a fireplace without
a chimney (nicely carpeted in now, too)! Every so often when the
weather changes the whole thing shifts and we go from being able to
open and close the bathroom door easily and quietly to having to wrestle
with it as it scrapes along the floor, or vice versa.
Given my druthers and unlimited income, I'd have the whole thing carted
away on a truck and build a new one on the same site, but barring a sudden
windfall it is not to be.
>Then again, I'm starting to pick up on the second mantra, which is You
>Could Make Enough Money With A Second Programming Job To Pay For A Really
>Good Contractor.
Also a good point.
>-Matthew, anyone hiring?
Er, and me?
--Bezel, will code for drywall
Graydon
> I'm nerving myself up to rip out the paneling in the den and replace
> it with drywall. There's something so scary about it... a little internal
> voice that screams, "You're thinking of taking apart the *house*? What
> gives you the feeling that would be a good idea?!"
Work on fine-tuning the gain on that little voice; if it has sense, as
I feel it is very likely to do, it's trying to tell you that you
_don't_ want to put up drywall.
Why not?
Well, is the wall plumb, flat, and straight? This is +possible+ but
it's not anything like likely. If it isn't, drywall becomes a pain in
the fundamentals to actually put on the wall so that said wall looks
smooth thereafter.
Then there's the horrid fragility of the stuff, the immense amount of
fine, clinging, caking dust that results, and the inevitable problem
that the resulting wall can't actually be washed, only painted.
(Unless you go in for a really solid top coating of some kind.)
What's the actual objective for redoing the den?
--
graydon@ |The Human Dress is forged Iron, The Human Form a fiery Forge,
lara. |The Human Face a Furnance seal'd, The Human Heart its
on.ca |hungry Gorge. -- from Wllm. Blake, "A Divine Image", 1794
Suz
>
> I seem to have carpenter ants now. Nrg.
>
But do they do dry-wall?
Suz
--
The more things change, the more they stay insane!
Bezel
>Bezel <be...@vnet.net> scripsit:
>> I'm nerving myself up to rip out the paneling in the den and replace
>> it with drywall. There's something so scary about it... a little internal
>> voice that screams, "You're thinking of taking apart the *house*? What
>> gives you the feeling that would be a good idea?!"
>
>Work on fine-tuning the gain on that little voice; if it has sense, as
>I feel it is very likely to do, it's trying to tell you that you
>_don't_ want to put up drywall.
>
>Why not?
>
>Well, is the wall plumb, flat, and straight? This is +possible+ but
>it's not anything like likely. If it isn't, drywall becomes a pain in
>the fundamentals to actually put on the wall so that said wall looks
>smooth thereafter.
>
>Then there's the horrid fragility of the stuff, the immense amount of
>fine, clinging, caking dust that results, and the inevitable problem
>that the resulting wall can't actually be washed, only painted.
>(Unless you go in for a really solid top coating of some kind.)
>
>What's the actual objective for redoing the den?
I guess my little voice is cleverer than I thought.
The objective is to take the wall that's currently covered in dark
paneling and turn it into a wall that can be painted white. The
den is a dark little room, with only one window which opens out onto
a covered patio that doesn't get much light. One wall is mostly occupied
by a brick fireplace and the opposite wall is mostly occupied by paperback
books. That leave two, one of which is the largest unbroken wall in the
room and is covered by the previously mentioned paneling. It's my theory
that if this wall were painted white, it would brighten up the place quite
a bit and make 'den' seem less like a literal descriptor.
Once I get that far, though, I start thinking things like 'and while
we had all the furniture out of the room, wouldn't it be a great time to
replace this horrible carpet? and then we could have someone cart this
sofa away, and get one that the stuffing's not coming out of and that's
long enough for two people to sit on it at the same time - I wonder
if there's anything we could do to make the floor level? - and perhaps
I could make new curtains...' and then I start to think perhaps I ought
to strangle these impulses a-borning before I turn into some sort of
geek Martha Stewart.
--Bezel ("Nuke the site from space.
It's the only way to be sure.")
James Nicoll
on the evils of drywall:
>
>Then there's the horrid fragility of the stuff, the immense amount of
>fine, clinging, caking dust that results, and the inevitable problem
>that the resulting wall can't actually be washed, only painted.
>(Unless you go in for a really solid top coating of some kind.)
>
And if you have any kind of skin condition like excema
or psoriasis, drywall dust will make it much much worse.
Graydon
> The objective is to take the wall that's currently covered in dark
> paneling and turn it into a wall that can be painted white. The
> den is a dark little room, with only one window which opens out onto
> a covered patio that doesn't get much light. One wall is mostly occupied
> by a brick fireplace and the opposite wall is mostly occupied by paperback
> books. That leave two, one of which is the largest unbroken wall in the
> room and is covered by the previously mentioned paneling. It's my theory
> that if this wall were painted white, it would brighten up the place quite
> a bit and make 'den' seem less like a literal descriptor.
Makes sense.
Do you know what is _behind_ the pannelling? It might be a mostly
acceptable wall already.
The thing to do with panelling is to get a nail set with a long point
and a pair of what I think of as cabinetmaker's snips. The Lee Valley
catalog calls them nail puller/cutters; it's a big pair of snips with
the cutting faces meeting square, perpendicular to the line of the
handles, and the shape of the jaws formed so that there's a leverage
effect if you pull the partially cut through nail with them. (Good
ones are $40 CDN; a set of nail sets is about $10.)
handles
________ | Jaws meet like that, and curve (but not in ascii art) so
-------- | you can lever nails out with them.
You then drive the finishing nails _through_ the pannelling; it will
come free with minimal damage (already got the nail holes, and prying
it off leads to splits and splinters and many sharp little pieces to
pick up) and then one can use the nail pulls to get all those nails
out of the wall. (Nail pulls rather than a claw hammer or a cat's paw
becuase they're finishing nails and have no heads to speak of, so the
usual claw extractors don't work very well.)
If what's behind the pannelling is strapping, it can come off too, but
if there's finally a board wall or similar back there and it's even
close to flat/plumb/straight, you can just go get a can of water based
contact cement (one with a long open time; up to an hour is easily
available) and some sheet material (Formica, etc. by brand name)
that's the right sort of white and in countertop grade (thick, so any
little sins in the wall don't show) and just glue it to the wall.
Like the 'structural wall paper' renevators have been known to refer
to, you can pain that later if you want to, it can be scrubbed, and
it's pretty easy to put on the wall. (Lighter and flexible compared
to drywall.)
But it really depends on what's behind the pannelling; if it's a lathe
and plaster wall, it might be recoverable with some poly filla and
pain and whatnot, there's no telling until you see it.
> Once I get that far, though, I start thinking things like 'and while
> we had all the furniture out of the room, wouldn't it be a great time to
> replace this horrible carpet? and then we could have someone cart this
> sofa away, and get one that the stuffing's not coming out of and that's
> long enough for two people to sit on it at the same time - I wonder
> if there's anything we could do to make the floor level? - and perhaps
> I could make new curtains...' and then I start to think perhaps I ought
> to strangle these impulses a-borning before I turn into some sort of
> geek Martha Stewart.
Leave the carpet to last; saves on dropcloths and soaks up lots of
sins (bits of splinters, nails, etc. etc.)
Leveling the floor, well, if it's a wood floor on wood joists
underneath, that have a basement under them, yes, you can level it,
but you probably want to get a good experienced house carpenter to do
it; it's one of those simple in theory things that's a bit frightening
in practice.
Allisson
>Bezel <be...@vnet.net> scripsit:
informative how-to's deleted for space]
Graydon, do you make house calls? Just think you could set up the Usenet
version of "this old/not-so-old house" Have any good ideas why ceiling
paint in a cathedral ceilinged room that has a ceiling fan consistently
bubbles and peels (it's been repainted several times since it was
constructed in '73 -- don't know with what initially but the last two were
laytex) when there is no signs of moisture, mold, etc ??? I want to
solve the problem before tackeling the project.
Allisson
--
H. Allisson Roome-Schroeder
"Diligentia Omnia Vincit"
Bezel
James Nicoll <jam...@ece.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>In article <7k6o88$1pk$1...@lara.on.ca>, Graydon <gra...@lara.on.ca> wrote:
>>
>
> on the evils of drywall:
>>
>>Then there's the horrid fragility of the stuff, the immense amount of
>>fine, clinging, caking dust that results, and the inevitable problem
>>that the resulting wall can't actually be washed, only painted.
>>(Unless you go in for a really solid top coating of some kind.)
>>
> And if you have any kind of skin condition like excema
>or psoriasis, drywall dust will make it much much worse.
Eeeek! Thank you for the warning (although frankly it's been the kind
of week to make me wonder how much worse it could *be*).
If I did wind up having to use it, would careful glove-and-long-sleeve
covering up help?
--Bezel
James Nicoll
I don't think so: I wasn't doing the drywalling but all of
my patches acted as though they'd been scoured with steel wool, even the
ones covered by clothing. The dust gets -everywhere-.
Graydon
> Graydon, do you make house calls?
No truck, and not enough tools, unfortunately.
> Just think you could set up the Usenet version of "this
> old/not-so-old house" Have any good ideas why ceiling paint in a
> cathedral ceilinged room that has a ceiling fan consistently bubbles
> and peels (it's been repainted several times since it was
> constructed in '73 -- don't know with what initially but the last
> two were laytex) when there is no signs of moisture, mold, etc ???
> I want to solve the problem before tackeling the project.
What's behind the paint?
My first thought about that is that someone painted galvanized steel
without the necessary fussy priming job being accomplished first.
The other option is that the first coat of paint was something like
most household enamel paints, which latex paint just doesn't stick to
without proper priming.
--
graydon@ |The Human Dress is forged Iron, The Human Form a fiery Forge,
lara. |The Human Face a Furnace seal'd, The Human Heart its
Warren Cheney
On 16 Jun 1999 19:34:17 -0400, gra...@lara.on.ca (Graydon) wrote:
>Allisson <alli...@panix.com> scripsit:
>> Graydon, do you make house calls?
>
>No truck, and not enough tools, unfortunately.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm having trouble
visualizing Graydon in a truck. Not that I can't see him in
one, but a Dodge Ram or a F150 just seems too wimpy.
OTOH, I can't see him in a Hummer, either. Except if it
had a rocket launcher installed for those times where he's
presented with a home beyond redemption, and with a stentorian
"I don't *like* this," followed by a *KA-WHOOM!* as the lot
gets instantly prepped for something more, um, suitable.
-----Warren (it'd be great for collecting past-due bills, too)
"Geez, how many Sues *are* there, anyways?"
Cori, sometime during Lilacboink
Warren Cheney Can't stand spam? http://www.cauce.org
Graydon
> If I did wind up having to use it, would careful glove-and-long-sleeve
> covering up help?
Not really; drywall dust, and drywall mud dust, is pesky horrid fine
clinging stuff that gets all through the house.
What _can_ work is to put it up with great slow care, doing all the
cutting of sheets necessary outside, and to not mud in the usual way
but to use a wet sponge (well, a succession of sponges) to put the mud
on so that it's smooth and doesn't need sanding. This merely takes
between five and ten times as long. (Overwetting the paper layer is
bad. You need to come _close_ to overwetting the paper layer to get
the mud to smooth out properly. Expect to rip out the first join and
replace the sheets.)
Graydon
> </hermit mode>
> On 16 Jun 1999 19:34:17 -0400, gra...@lara.on.ca (Graydon) wrote:
> >Allisson <alli...@panix.com> scripsit:
> >> Graydon, do you make house calls?
> >No truck, and not enough tools, unfortunately.
>
> I don't know about anyone else, but I'm having trouble
> visualizing Graydon in a truck. Not that I can't see him in
> one, but a Dodge Ram or a F150 just seems too wimpy.
Bombardier, many a moon ago, had an entry into the CF Light Logistics
Vehicle contest that was a reasonably areodynamic one ton 6x6. In
some other colour than the usual ghastly green, I'd call one of those
nearly ideal. Pity they never went into production.
(There is no artistry to house demolition with anti-tank rockets.
Fireworks rockets, maybe.)
Allisson
>Allisson <alli...@panix.com> scripsit:
>> Graydon, do you make house calls?
>
>No truck, and not enough tools, unfortunately.
Darn, just think of the work you could get from snigglers alone --
as a home-improvement consultant (after all consulting is where
the $$$ is)
>> Just think you could set up the Usenet version of "this
>> old/not-so-old house" Have any good ideas why ceiling paint in a
>> cathedral ceilinged room that has a ceiling fan consistently bubbles
>> and peels (it's been repainted several times since it was
>> constructed in '73 -- don't know with what initially but the last
>> two were laytex) when there is no signs of moisture, mold, etc ???
>> I want to solve the problem before tackeling the project.
>
>What's behind the paint?
Um, sheetrock-like wall/ceiling board. Where it's peeled away it
looks like unpainted or tan painted drywall. The ceiling is
uninsulated (I don't remember if the interior surface is attached to
anything other than the framing that supports the roof -- I was only
8 or so when it was built)
>My first thought about that is that someone painted galvanized steel
>without the necessary fussy priming job being accomplished first.
Nope just ordinary ceiling stuff ...
>
>The other option is that the first coat of paint was something like
>most household enamel paints, which latex paint just doesn't stick to
>without proper priming.
That's what I was thinking. I was thinking also if the initial paint job
oil-based and was never primed so that it could take latex or enamel, then
it would have the same effect. My parents (mother especially) would've never
known that you couldn't paint one on top of the other without some necessary
intermediate step and would've never thought to tell whoever painted it
for them or knew that it was oil or enamel.
It's good to have your theories confirmed ... Now all we have to do
is strip (or have stripped) the paint down to the board and have it
primed and painted. So much for that tax refund ....
Thanks!
Andreas Tovornik
>
>>Allisson <alli...@panix.com> scripsit:
>>> Graydon, do you make house calls?
>>
>>No truck, and not enough tools, unfortunately.
>
> visualizing Graydon in a truck. Not that I can't see him in
> one, but a Dodge Ram or a F150 just seems too wimpy.
>
> had a rocket launcher installed for those times where he's
> presented with a home beyond redemption, and with a stentorian
> "I don't *like* this," followed by a *KA-WHOOM!* as the lot
> gets instantly prepped for something more, um, suitable.
Why not dispense with the toys and make it a little Kenworth
pulling a great big cylindrical object tapered at one end,
liberally festooned with "nuclear device" international
symbols? The soldiers in the escorting troop carriers can
do the cleaning up and renovations while Graydon, *erhmm*,
supervises...
--
'dreas...tbtw#5 If you want something bad enough, you will get it.
VictoriaTaxi#15 When you get it, you may wonder why you wanted it.
It's not my fault! There are things, though, that you never wanted or
Sniggling since 1992 needed but they end up as very pleasant surprises.
Shirley Hicks
brought down from the mountain:>>Bezel <be...@vnet.net> scripsit:
I'm in the process of switching my newsgroup subscription to
another machine. I pad posted a reply to this earlier, but
my bet is that I didn't have some settings just right yet)
>>> I'm nerving myself up to rip out the paneling in the den and replace
>>> it with drywall. There's something so scary about it... a little internal
>>> voice that screams, "You're thinking of taking apart the *house*? What
>>> gives you the feeling that would be a good idea?!"
<...>
>The objective is to take the wall that's currently covered in dark
>paneling and turn it into a wall that can be painted white. The
>den is a dark little room, with only one window which opens out onto
>a covered patio that doesn't get much light. One wall is mostly occupied
>by a brick fireplace and the opposite wall is mostly occupied by paperback
>books. That leave two, one of which is the largest unbroken wall in the
>room and is covered by the previously mentioned paneling. It's my theory
>that if this wall were painted white, it would brighten up the place quite
>a bit and make 'den' seem less like a literal descriptor.
Painting panelling a light colour isn't that hard and is
worth doing. I did this to the basement of my last house and
it brightened things up considerably. I got my instructions
from the "Reader's Digest Home Maintenance".
1. Clear furniture from room. (I prefer working in a nekked
room - paint spatters aren't so critical then.) Cover
carpets and such with drop cloths.
2. Wash down walls with TSP solution. Allow to dry.
3. Lighty sand panelling (an any other surfaces being
painted) Ensures a better bond between wall, primer and
paint.
4. Hammer down any warped panels. Fill nail holes, beaten
bits, and dents with wood filler. Allow to dry. Sand flat.
Repeat procedure on any plain drywall or plaster walls in
the room, but use drywall mud. Chisel, file, tape and finish
any cracks in drywall or plaster. (Basically, do a thorough
job of surface prep)
5. Prime with interior primer. The newer latex primers are
really, really good now. Allow to dry. May require a second
coat over dark panelling. Thorough coverage is a good thing.
Either latex or acillyd (sic) paints may be used over this.
Sand lightly when dry.
6. Paint with the paint of your choice.
I had really nice results using an eggshell on the walls,
and semi-gloss on the trim.
Ragging, striping and other wall treatments can also give
sime really interesting effects on panelling. (I did this in
my old bedroom) Turns a liability into an asset. I wouldn't
go for a pure white, BTW. Shows fingerprints too easily.
Personally, I'd be looking at something with a light tint.
>Once I get that far, though, I start thinking things like 'and while
>we had all the furniture out of the room, wouldn't it be a great time to
>replace this horrible carpet? and then we could have someone cart this
>sofa away, and get one that the stuffing's not coming out of and that's
>long enough for two people to sit on it at the same time - I wonder
>if there's anything we could do to make the floor level? - and perhaps
>I could make new curtains...' and then I start to think perhaps I ought
>to strangle these impulses a-borning before I turn into some sort of
>geek Martha Stewart.
I'd stick with new curtains, and some throws over the sofa.
Unless you have a bigger budget. The paint & primer will run
you enough.
And geeky Martha Stewart types are all the rage, doncha
know.
Shirley, paint brush for hire.
Lead me not to temptation; I can find the way myself.
-Rita Mae Brown
Graydon
> It's good to have your theories confirmed ... Now all we have to do
> is strip (or have stripped) the paint down to the board and have it
> primed and painted. So much for that tax refund ....
You're planning on stripping paint from drywall on a ceiling?
(The stuff that looks like tan painted drywall might be hardboard, and
unprimed or oil treated hardboard takes paint like cats take pills.)
Paint strippers tend to do vile things to drywall; paint strippers on
a ceiling, urf. You're stuck with heat guns and wire brushes and it's
still likely easier to just rip it out and replace it.
Bezel
>Bezel <be...@vnet.net> scripsit:
>> paneling and turn it into a wall that can be painted white. The
>> den is a dark little room, with only one window which opens out onto
>> a covered patio that doesn't get much light. One wall is mostly occupied
>> by a brick fireplace and the opposite wall is mostly occupied by paperback
>> books. That leave two, one of which is the largest unbroken wall in the
>> room and is covered by the previously mentioned paneling. It's my theory
>> that if this wall were painted white, it would brighten up the place quite
>> a bit and make 'den' seem less like a literal descriptor.
>
>
>Do you know what is _behind_ the pannelling? It might be a mostly
>acceptable wall already.
No, and I can't figure out how to find out without ripping the paneling
off, at which point I'm committed to finding a solution no matter
what it is.
>If what's behind the pannelling is strapping, it can come off too, but
>if there's finally a board wall or similar back there and it's even
>close to flat/plumb/straight, you can just go get a can of water based
>contact cement (one with a long open time; up to an hour is easily
>available) and some sheet material (Formica, etc. by brand name)
>that's the right sort of white and in countertop grade (thick, so any
>little sins in the wall don't show) and just glue it to the wall.
>Like the 'structural wall paper' renevators have been known to refer
>to, you can pain that later if you want to, it can be scrubbed, and
>it's pretty easy to put on the wall. (Lighter and flexible compared
>to drywall.)
>
>But it really depends on what's behind the pannelling; if it's a lathe
>and plaster wall, it might be recoverable with some poly filla and
>pain and whatnot, there's no telling until you see it.
As I was asked in email, if it's a board wall is there any reason we
couldn't just paint it?
>Leveling the floor, well, if it's a wood floor on wood joists
>underneath, that have a basement under them, yes, you can level it,
>but you probably want to get a good experienced house carpenter to do
>it; it's one of those simple in theory things that's a bit frightening
>in practice.
No basement, just a crawl space. It's not so much that the floor has
sagged but that someone 'practicing' added a few feet to the room
(presumaby at the same time that the front patio was added) and the extra
few feet are slightly lower than the rest of the room. I would tend to
guess that those extra few feet are on top of the same concrete that
forms the patio, but that's just a guess, I haven't looked at it that
closely.
--Bezel
Bezel
>Bezel <be...@vnet.net> scripsit:
>> covering up help?
>
>Not really; drywall dust, and drywall mud dust, is pesky horrid fine
>clinging stuff that gets all through the house.
Yucko. Perhaps nuking the site from space really is the only solution.
>What _can_ work is to put it up with great slow care, doing all the
>cutting of sheets necessary outside, and to not mud in the usual way
>but to use a wet sponge (well, a succession of sponges) to put the mud
>on so that it's smooth and doesn't need sanding. This merely takes
>between five and ten times as long. (Overwetting the paper layer is
>bad. You need to come _close_ to overwetting the paper layer to get
>the mud to smooth out properly. Expect to rip out the first join and
>replace the sheets.)
We could definitely do the cutting either outside or in the
Scary Shed, which even has power available in theory, so that might
help.
--Bezel
Sara Running
>
> Allisson <alli...@panix.com> scripsit:
> > It's good to have your theories confirmed ... Now all we have to do
> > is strip (or have stripped) the paint down to the board and have it
> > primed and painted. So much for that tax refund ....
>
> You're planning on stripping paint from drywall on a ceiling?
>
> (The stuff that looks like tan painted drywall might be hardboard, and
> unprimed or oil treated hardboard takes paint like cats take pills.)
>
> Paint strippers tend to do vile things to drywall; paint strippers on
> a ceiling, urf. You're stuck with heat guns and wire brushes and it's
> still likely easier to just rip it out and replace it.
I don't think you need to use a paint stripper, although you probably
want to take a putty knife and scrape all the loose paint off you can.
Also go to a good paint store and tell them what you have (pictures and
samples of what you scraped off will help. You don't say how old the
home is but are you sure it's sheetrock? It might be plaster over
hardboard or lathe and plaster. A reputable store will help you
determine what you really need to do if you want to do it yourself.
However with cathedral ceilings it may be better to call a professional.
Sara
(My home was built in 1953 and I have hardboard covered with plaster--it
appears the plaster was not primed prior to the first coat of
enamel--most likely oil-based--paint. Some places it is most tenacious
and others it has just peeled right off with a broadknife. Most of the
rooms then had some variety of latex or wall paper put up. I've been
having some wild exciting times with some of my remodeling jobs.)
--
Sara Running
The views expressed here do not represent those of Intel Corp.
History may not repeat itself, but sometimes it rhymes.
Graydon
> In article <7k8j05$fdt$1...@lara.on.ca>, Graydon <gra...@lara.on.ca> wrote:
> >Do you know what is _behind_ the pannelling? It might be a mostly
> >acceptable wall already.
>
> No, and I can't figure out how to find out without ripping the paneling
> off, at which point I'm committed to finding a solution no matter
> what it is.
Take a hole saw to an innocuous corner, low down somewhere, and take a
core sample. (A hole saw is one of those cylinders-with-saw-edges
that goes into a drill, often sold with door hardware installation
kits. A 2 1/4" inch cheap one intended for a door kit is at least
tolerably disposable if you hit something like expanded steel mesh
being used to back plaster.) With luck, you can glue the plug back in
and it won't show if you decide to give up on the project after
discovering that the panneling is on top of rotted plaster on top of
expanded steel mesh tacked up with fence staples to rough sawn pine
planks with big gaps between them.
If there's an electrical box -- switch or outlet or other -- on that
wall, taking the cover off and peering can sometimes be informative,
too.
> >But it really depends on what's behind the pannelling; if it's a lathe
> >and plaster wall, it might be recoverable with some poly filla and
> >pain and whatnot, there's no telling until you see it.
>
> As I was asked in email, if it's a board wall is there any reason we
> couldn't just paint it?
Only two -- texture and coating.
if it was intended to back pannelling, it might gap or be
seriously non-flat as the boards cup in different directions and
degrees, or rough sawn in splintery, or whichever, making the surface
one unsuitable for painting in terms of texture; if it's got some sort
of horrid old paint or plaster primer or suchlike on it, or it's
really pitchy pine, that won't take paint well either.
If it's a nice well behaved plank wall, by all means, just paint that.
> >Leveling the floor, well, if it's a wood floor on wood joists
> >underneath, that have a basement under them, yes, you can level it,
> >but you probably want to get a good experienced house carpenter to do
> >it; it's one of those simple in theory things that's a bit frightening
> >in practice.
>
> No basement, just a crawl space. It's not so much that the floor has
> sagged but that someone 'practicing' added a few feet to the room
> (presumaby at the same time that the front patio was added) and the extra
> few feet are slightly lower than the rest of the room. I would tend to
> guess that those extra few feet are on top of the same concrete that
> forms the patio, but that's just a guess, I haven't looked at it that
> closely.
If you want to level that, just add floor until it's level -- how much
lower is 'slightly'? There might well be a common plywood thickness
that'd about solve the problem.
Suz
>
> On 16 Jun 1999 09:11:29 -0400, be...@vnet.net (Bezel)
> brought down from the mountain:
> >>Bezel <be...@vnet.net> scripsit:
> >>> I'm nerving myself up to rip out the paneling in the den and replace
> >>> it with drywall.
> Painting panelling a light colour isn't that hard and is
> worth doing.
That's what I was going to say. Or use some of that textured wall
covering that can be painted (or not?) whatever color you wish. Way
less disruptive.
Suz (but, then, I haven't painted a room since I was in junior high)
ant...@pobox.com
[house renovations...]
: I don't remember which of my parents gave me the following mantra: The
: First House Is For Practice.
: Then again, I'm starting to pick up on the second mantra, which is You
: Could Make Enough Money With A Second Programming Job To Pay For A Really
: Good Contractor.
: -Matthew, anyone hiring?
Plenty of people are hiring, but none are hiring me. *sigh*
Antryg - I could use a boost in pay.
--
ant...@pobox.com - "Everyone should have a sig quote. This one is mine."
http://www.pobox.com/~antryg (sadly outdated)
ant...@pobox.com
[...]
: I've had two moments liek that with the store: once when we
: ripped up the porch deck to discover that all of the supports on one
: side had rotted away and there was nothing holding up that side except
: custom and the other when my renovator pointed out a previous owner
: had taken out a load bearing wall without compensating for the loss
: of load bearing ability.
A pox on "carpenters" who cut into load-bearing walls without thinking.
I saw a barn renovation once where a primary beam (post and bean
construction) had been chopped halfway through to make room for a closet.
Scary.
: I seem to have carpenter ants now. Nrg.
Hit them now and hard. They'll only get worse once they get established.
Antryg - Finally got rid of the antpile blighting the front walk.
The smaller sugarants don't bother me so much.
ant...@pobox.com
: James Nicoll wrote:
:>
:> I seem to have carpenter ants now. Nrg.
:>
: But do they do dry-wall?
Actually, I bet they rather like dry walls. ;)
Antryg - Now the cherry tree has aphids. Arrgh!
James Mayhar
>James Nicoll <jam...@ece.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>[...]
>: I've had two moments liek that with the store: once when we
>: ripped up the porch deck to discover that all of the supports on one
>: side had rotted away and there was nothing holding up that side except
>: custom and the other when my renovator pointed out a previous owner
>: had taken out a load bearing wall without compensating for the loss
>: of load bearing ability.
>
>A pox on "carpenters" who cut into load-bearing walls without thinking.
>I saw a barn renovation once where a primary beam (post and bean
>construction) had been chopped halfway through to make room for a closet.
>
>Scary.
>
Would that be pole-beans? Maybe used to hold up the lintels?
James A. Mayhar
Rob Walsh
> In article <7kkq45$fu$2...@news1.rmi.net>, ant...@pobox.com wrote:
> >
> >A pox on "carpenters" who cut into load-bearing walls without thinking.
> >I saw a barn renovation once where a primary beam (post and bean
> >construction) had been chopped halfway through to make room for a closet.
>
Depends. If it was a horse barn, they must have been pinto beans, not
lentils. I'll bet it was built by the Garbanzo Brothers for Grandma
Brown.
Rob.
James Mayhar
I think you're just stringing me along. Been there, done that.
James A. Mayhar
Rob Walsh
Nah, I'm pulling your legume.
Rob. (where's Dave?)
Bezel
Shirley Hicks <for.ar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Painting panelling a light colour isn't that hard and is
>worth doing. I did this to the basement of my last house and
>it brightened things up considerably. I got my instructions
>from the "Reader's Digest Home Maintenance".
We've also realized it might be possible to get paneling in a lighter
color, in which case we could just replace it, but thank you for the
painting advice. I'm a little worried that the wood grain would look
odd under the paint, but I'm more worried about how hard the other
options would be.
>I had really nice results using an eggshell on the walls,
>and semi-gloss on the trim.
>
>Ragging, striping and other wall treatments can also give
>sime really interesting effects on panelling. (I did this in
>my old bedroom) Turns a liability into an asset. I wouldn't
>go for a pure white, BTW. Shows fingerprints too easily.
>Personally, I'd be looking at something with a light tint.
Would we need to do any special prep on the other walls, if we wanted
to paint them all to match?
--Bezel
nancy vonstein
>Would we need to do any special prep on the other walls, if we wanted
>to paint them all to match?
What I hear over and over again. Put a primer on all of your whick
you plan to pain. A little extrac work and expense but worth it in
the end .
> --Bezel
nancy vonstein
My goodness I have chemobrain! I need to strike a few corrections
below.
On 22 Jun 1999 13:07:25 -0400, nan...@mindspring.com (nancy vonstein)
wrote:
>On 22 Jun 1999 11:27:31 -0400, be...@vnet.net (Bezel) wrote:
>
>>Would we need to do any special prep on the other walls, if we wanted
>>to paint them all to match?
>
> What I hear over and over again. Put a primer on all of your walls which
>you plan to paint. A little extra work and expense but worth it in
>the end .
>> --Bezel
Nancy (this woman is dangerous :-)
Bezel
nancy vonstein <nan...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>On 22 Jun 1999 11:27:31 -0400, be...@vnet.net (Bezel) wrote:
>
>>Would we need to do any special prep on the other walls, if we wanted
>>to paint them all to match?
>
>the end .
Makes sense. I've never painted anything serious before, so I wasn't
sure.
(Belated happydance: Nancy's back! Nancy's back! Hooray!)
--Bezel (um, glad to see you!)
Imperialist Running Pig
>Nah, I'm pulling your legume.
Legu my legume!
--
Piglet "But male conditioning, nonetheless. You
pig...@piglet.org were not treated like a woman." [to Julie H.]
1. Pardon me, my plurals are slipping.
2. Piglet Needs (full-time, nyc-area) Programmers!! Apply Within.
Graydon
> In article <375b0a83...@news.mindspring.com>,
> nancy vonstein <nan...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >On 22 Jun 1999 11:27:31 -0400, be...@vnet.net (Bezel) wrote:
> >
> >>Would we need to do any special prep on the other walls, if we wanted
> >>to paint them all to match?
> >
> > What I hear over and over again. Put a primer on all of your whick
> >you plan to pain. A little extrac work and expense but worth it in
> >the end .
>
> Makes sense. I've never painted anything serious before, so I wasn't
> sure.
You also need to make sure the wall is _clean_ before you put the
primer on; sodium triphosphate is usually overkill, but a good couple
scrubbings with floor soap and nylon scrubbies is not.
Warren Cheney
>In article <375b0a83...@news.mindspring.com>,
>nancy vonstein <nan...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>On 22 Jun 1999 11:27:31 -0400, be...@vnet.net (Bezel) wrote:
>>
>>>Would we need to do any special prep on the other walls, if we wanted
>>>to paint them all to match?
>>
>> What I hear over and over again. Put a primer on all of your whick
>>you plan to pain. A little extrac work and expense but worth it in
>>the end .
>
>Makes sense. I've never painted anything serious before, so I wasn't
>sure.
You just paint humorous things, then?
Just a reminder that I look better covered with latex.
-----Warren (I get final veto on color choice)
Susan T Graul
>
> In article <7kkq45$fu$2...@news1.rmi.net>, ant...@pobox.com wrote:
> >
> >A pox on "carpenters" who cut into load-bearing walls without thinking.
> >I saw a barn renovation once where a primary beam (post and bean
> >construction) had been chopped halfway through to make room for a closet.
> >
>
> Would that be pole-beans? Maybe used to hold up the lintels?
or maybe lentils?
sue
Rob Walsh
> r...@iinc.com, in article <slrn7mv8...@camelot27.iinc.com>, dixit:
> >Nah, I'm pulling your legume.
>
> Legu my legume!
Now you're just waffling.
> 2. Piglet Needs (full-time, nyc-area) Programmers!! Apply Within.
This is one of the few times I actually wish I lived in nyc.
Programming in Perl with Piglet -- a pleasant profession.
(I like urban, but not *that* urban. :-)
Rob.
James Mayhar
A lintel is an architectural feature.
James A. Mayhar
This is why puns are more fun spoken and heard than typed and read.
ant...@pobox.com
: In article <7kkq45$fu$2...@news1.rmi.net>, ant...@pobox.com wrote:
:>[...]
:>: I've had two moments liek that with the store: once when we
:>: ripped up the porch deck to discover that all of the supports on one
:>: side had rotted away and there was nothing holding up that side except
:>: custom and the other when my renovator pointed out a previous owner
:>: had taken out a load bearing wall without compensating for the loss
:>: of load bearing ability.
:>A pox on "carpenters" who cut into load-bearing walls without thinking.
:>I saw a barn renovation once where a primary beam (post and bean
:>construction) had been chopped halfway through to make room for a closet.
:>
:>Scary.
:>
: Would that be pole-beans? Maybe used to hold up the lintels?
Oops!
At least I don't have leeks in my roof.
Antryg - Doing the night shift again, alas.
ant...@pobox.com
: On 22 Jun 1999 15:21:57 -0400, Imperialist Running Pig <pig...@panix.com> wrote:
:> r...@iinc.com, in article <slrn7mv8...@camelot27.iinc.com>, dixit:
:> >Nah, I'm pulling your legume.
:>
:> Legu my legume!
: Now you're just waffling.
Groan! More cereal humor.
:> 2. Piglet Needs (full-time, nyc-area) Programmers!! Apply Within.
: This is one of the few times I actually wish I lived in nyc.
: Programming in Perl with Piglet -- a pleasant profession.
: (I like urban, but not *that* urban. :-)
Ditto. I must admit to being a Colorado boy through and through.
Besides, I don't know Perl yet. Too busy teaching myself C++ in my rather
non-copious free time.
'Twould be interesting to get into programming, though. Especially with a
fellow sniggler.
Antryg - Currently mapping NYC. Too many people for my taste.
Bezel
Warren Cheney <offc...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>On 22 Jun 1999 13:46:40 -0400, be...@vnet.net (Bezel) wrote:
>>
>>Makes sense. I've never painted anything serious before, so I wasn't
>>sure.
>
> You just paint humorous things, then?
>
> Just a reminder that I look better covered with latex.
>
>-----Warren (I get final veto on color choice)
I don't theenk so. I think it'd be much funnier if everyone got to
choose. And help.
--Bezel (PaintingWarrenBoink, anyone?)
James A. Mayhar
ant...@pobox.com wrote:
>
> Rob Walsh <r...@camelot27.iinc.com> wrote:
> : On 22 Jun 1999 15:21:57 -0400, Imperialist Running Pig <pig...@panix.com> wrote:
> :> r...@iinc.com, in article <slrn7mv8...@camelot27.iinc.com>, dixit:
> :> >Nah, I'm pulling your legume.
> :>
> :> Legu my legume!
>
> : Now you're just waffling.
>
> Groan! More cereal humor.
>
At least it isn't parallel humor.
James A. Mayhar
I know, I know, it really goes against the grain, but, though I tried
with every fiber of my being, I couldn't restrain myself.
songbird
<ant...@pobox.com> wrote in message news:7k24d3$pbs$1...@news1.rmi.net...
> Well, I finally had the money to redo the upstairs bathroom.
upstairs was this wet?! yikes. how was the floor below and
the wall all the way down to the ground floor? was there a way
to check it?
[...]
> Well, I finally got the wall aired out and essentially completely rebuilt.
> (Not a trivial task.) Put in some new fiberglass and sealed it all up with
> greenboard. It is now the strongest partof the house, I suspect. Finally,
> the new white tile went up.
>
> It doesn't quite look professional. Given that it was my first tile job,
> though, I must admit that it looks pretty damn snazzy. Feels much
> cleaner, too. I'm happy.
yay! tile jobs can be quite fun. in renovations where the walls
may have migrated out of square you can set yourself up for all sorts
of grief just by picking the wrong wall to start from. granted a
wet saw can make cuts bearable and even not to tough on the eyes.
in the end measure and measure and even plot it on graph paper if
you can.
and of course new construction is _always_ square. *snicker*
somedays i felt rather lucky that all i had to do was truck the
pallets in and haul those boxes around and up and down stairs.
especially those days when it was a renovation of a restaraunt.
> Antryg - I kinda feel like Al Borland. :)
you sure don't look like him! :)
songbird (no personals?
ant...@pobox.com
: <ant...@pobox.com> wrote in message news:7k24d3$pbs$1...@news1.rmi.net...
:> Well, I finally had the money to redo the upstairs bathroom.
: upstairs was this wet?! yikes. how was the floor below and
: the wall all the way down to the ground floor? was there a way
: to check it?
Um, sorry. I meant the ground floor. I have a finished basement. Thus,
"upstairs" and "downstairs" bathrooms.
The sill plate (board that rests on the foundation) was okay. The
soggyness started just below the top of the tub and ran up to about
shoulder high. Nasty. Studs should never squish when you lean on them.
*shudder*
: [...]
:> Well, I finally got the wall aired out and essentially completely rebuilt.
:> (Not a trivial task.) Put in some new fiberglass and sealed it all up with
:> greenboard. It is now the strongest partof the house, I suspect. Finally,
:> the new white tile went up.
:>
:> It doesn't quite look professional. Given that it was my first tile job,
:> though, I must admit that it looks pretty damn snazzy. Feels much
:> cleaner, too. I'm happy.
: yay! tile jobs can be quite fun. in renovations where the walls
: may have migrated out of square you can set yourself up for all sorts
: of grief just by picking the wrong wall to start from. granted a
: wet saw can make cuts bearable and even not to tough on the eyes.
: in the end measure and measure and even plot it on graph paper if
: you can.
I thought I'd avoid that by doing the back wall first and starting in the
middle. I started with a tile centered on the wall, since the new
soaptray is eaxctly one tile wide on the back and I wanted _it_ centered.
Beeg mistake. When I got to either end, I had to cut little sliver tiles
to go in the corners. Big pieces are definitely easier to cut than tiny
pieces. I shoulda put a grout line down the center and cut two tiles
where the soaptray went. Ah, well.
: and of course new construction is _always_ square. *snicker*
: somedays i felt rather lucky that all i had to do was truck the
: pallets in and haul those boxes around and up and down stairs.
: especially those days when it was a renovation of a restaraunt.
I have firsthand knowledge of how some contractors build houses. It's
amazing that walls end up as square as they do.
:> Antryg - I kinda feel like Al Borland. :)
: you sure don't look like him! :)
Story of my life: Al Borland trapped in Tim Taylor's body (sorta). ;)
: songbird (no personals?
What about impersonals?
Antryg - soc.personals.impersonals anyone?
Charles R Martin
ant...@pobox.com wrote:
>
> songbird <ant...@usit.net> wrote:
>
> :> Antryg - I kinda feel like Al Borland. :)
>
> : you sure don't look like him! :)
No, that would be me.
--
I can only please one person per day.
Today is not your day.
Tomorrow doesn't look good either.
Charles R Martin * Superior, CO * 80027
Matthew Daly
>Besides, I don't know Perl yet. Too busy teaching myself C++ in my rather
>non-copious free time.
ROTFLMAO!
Oh, were you serious? My God, what are you thinking?
-Matthew, glad to finally have had an excuse to contribute to the Laura
Lemay Retirement and Motorcycle Rehabiliation Fund
---
Matthew Daly mwd...@pobox.com http://www.frontiernet.net/~mwdaly/
My propositions are elucidatory in this way: he who understands
them finally recognizes them as senseless ... whereof one cannot
speak thereof one must be silent.
Charles R Martin
> My propositions are elucidatory in this way: he who understands
> them finally recognizes them as senseless ... whereof one cannot
> speak thereof one must be silent.
Someone has finally trumped my Goethe with a Wittgenstein.
Congratulations.
(God, I almost wrote "Heidegger". Ludwig, *forgive* me.)
Matthew Daly
said:
>
>> My propositions are elucidatory in this way: he who understands
>> them finally recognizes them as senseless ... whereof one cannot
>> speak thereof one must be silent.
>
>Someone has finally trumped my Goethe with a Wittgenstein.
>Congratulations.
I had forgotten that I still hadn't changed my quote. I received a vague
threat from a lurker in another newsgroup (where is .nl?) several weeks
ago that said "Please don't quote Wittgenstein on those who cannot
appreciate him..." I was too ashamed to tell him that the only
appreciation I had of the statement was that which was spoon-fed to me by
Smullyan in one of his philosophy books. I feel like the Gorey character
who one day "opened the wrong envelope" and found his life filled with
such previously unimaginable intrigue.
Anyway, I'll retreat to a Shaw quote, just to be on the safe side. I
appreciate being able to answer in the negative when the police ask me if
I have any enemies.
-Matthew
---
Matthew Daly mwd...@pobox.com http://www.frontiernet.net/~mwdaly/
The longer I live the more I see that I am never wrong about
anything, and that all the pains that I have so humbly taken to
verify my notions have only wasted my time.
Annette M. Stroud
Matthew Daly <mwd...@pobox.com> wrote:
>I'll never forget the time that Charles R Martin <crma...@iglobal.net>
>said:
>
>>
>>> My propositions are elucidatory in this way: he who understands
>>> them finally recognizes them as senseless ... whereof one cannot
>>> speak thereof one must be silent.
>>
>>Someone has finally trumped my Goethe with a Wittgenstein.
>>Congratulations.
>
>I had forgotten that I still hadn't changed my quote. I received a vague
>threat from a lurker in another newsgroup (where is .nl?)
Netherlands.
>several weeks
>ago that said "Please don't quote Wittgenstein on those who cannot
>appreciate him..."
Rather a stiff requirement. One wonders whether Wittgenstein would relish
being banned from usenet like this. I can only understand Wittgenstein on
my tiptoes (and that only in translation; so what do I know? maybe I
understand nothing.) (And maybe understanding that I understand nothing
is enough.)
>Anyway, I'll retreat to a Shaw quote, just to be on the safe side. I
>appreciate being able to answer in the negative when the police ask me if
>I have any enemies.
Boy, do I wish that were true for me.
Annette
Jo Walton
mwd...@pobox.com "Matthew Daly" writes:
> I had forgotten that I still hadn't changed my quote. I received a vague
> threat from a lurker in another newsgroup (where is .nl?)
The Netherlands. Holland. Windmills, tulips, clogs, diamonds and people
who fret about Wittgenstein...
Which reminds me. I heard a book reviewed on the radio once, a few years
ago, which was a translation from the Dutch, and it was about a sort
of fantasy "South Holland" that had mountains and dramatic scenery and
was there instead of the rest of Europe. I didn't hear the author or the
title - this is what happens with putting the radio on when I'm in the
kitchen - and haven't seen it mentioned since. Has anyone else come
across it? I should sensibly ask on rasfw, but as I'm here and talking
about Holland.
("When it's Spring again, we'll bring again...")
--
Jo - - I kissed a kif at Kefk - - J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk
http://www.bluejo.demon.co.uk - Interstichia; Poetry; RASFW FAQ; etc.
Suz
>
> I'll never forget the time that ant...@pobox.com said:
>
> >Besides, I don't know Perl yet. Too busy teaching myself C++ in my rather
> >non-copious free time.
>
> ROTFLMAO!
>
> Oh, were you serious? My God, what are you thinking?
>
Learning C is "going over to the Dark Side".
Suz (Ada forever!) (Or at least til I retire.)
--
The more things change, the more they stay insane!
Suz
ant...@pobox.com wrote:
> Studs should never squish when you lean on
them.
New boink game... lean against the studs and see whether they squish!
Suz
ant...@pobox.com
:>Besides, I don't know Perl yet. Too busy teaching myself C++ in my rather
:>non-copious free time.
: ROTFLMAO!
: Oh, were you serious? My God, what are you thinking?
Well, I already have C. I figured C++ couldn't be _that_ much of a jump.
Frankly, I'm liking it. I can see why it has become so popular.
I'm an oddball, as my userID would indicate. I actually engage in
"recreational programming", though not as much as when I was in college.
I used to write quick-and-dirty games just-for-the-hell-of-it.
One little toy of mine, a version of Conway's "life" automata with a
user-defineable ruleset, eventually grew into my Senior Project. All from
the joy of coding. *chuckle*
Someday, I oughtta write a version for Linux. Could be amusing.
Antryg - I've got a loooong list of "someday" projects.
ant...@pobox.com
: Matthew Daly wrote:
:>
:> I'll never forget the time that ant...@pobox.com said:
:>
:> >Besides, I don't know Perl yet. Too busy teaching myself C++ in my rather
:> >non-copious free time.
:>
:> ROTFLMAO!
:>
:> Oh, were you serious? My God, what are you thinking?
: Learning C is "going over to the Dark Side".
: Suz (Ada forever!) (Or at least til I retire.)
Heh! I cut my teeth on Pascal. I remember being thrilled when Turbo
Pascal 4.0 was released. I fell in love with the new "Integrated
Programming Environment."
On the flip side, I also took a semester of 8086 Assembly.
JMP DONE
Antryg - Never played with Ada.
DONE: RET 0
ant...@pobox.com
: In article <7m49mu$cji$1...@news1.rmi.net>,
: ant...@pobox.com wrote:
:> Studs should never squish when you lean on
: them.
: New boink game... lean against the studs and see whether they squish!
Since I brought it up, I suppose I should volunteer.
Antryg - Ah, the sacrifices I make... *grin*
Victor Eijkhout
> ("When it's Spring again, we'll bring again...")
Is there an official translation of that song? Extraordinarily pretty
song.
--
Victor Eijkhout
In a time when we can design almost anything well [the $20 bill] is an
embarrassing failure. A close runner-up is the Euro, which is so bad it
has made the designer of the Dutch currency say he'll move to the U.S.
Victor Eijkhout
> Which reminds me. I heard a book reviewed on the radio once, a few years
> ago, which was a translation from the Dutch, and it was about a sort
> of fantasy "South Holland" that had mountains and dramatic scenery and
> was there instead of the rest of Europe. I didn't hear the author or the
> title - this is what happens with putting the radio on when I'm in the
> kitchen - and haven't seen it mentioned since. Has anyone else come
> across it? I should sensibly ask on rasfw, but as I'm here and talking
> about Holland.
Pure coincidence that I saw this post. Subject line, shmubject line, eh?
The book is "In the Dutch Mountains" (not sure about the "in") by Cees
Nooteboom. It's a good book, but not his best, which is "Rituals" which
I tend to give away as a present quite often. Quite a bit of Nooteboom's
oevre has been translated. He's a quite remarkable type overall, fluent
in half a dozen European languages, and generally rather cosmopolitan.
Did some great travel writing which I think has not been translated.
Jo Walton
vic...@eijkhout.net "Victor Eijkhout" writes:
> Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > ("When it's Spring again, we'll bring again...")
>
> Is there an official translation of that song? Extraordinarily pretty
> song.
Do you mean it's a Dutch song?
I'm not sure I've ever heard an official version, or even a real
version. My aunt sings it in the car, and, being my aunt, forgets
half the words but gets the tune dead on perfect. I am the other
way around, if I ever knew the words I still do, but my voice won't
stay on pitch. I was singing it to Sasha when we changed planes in
Schipol.
Victor Eijkhout
> > > ("When it's Spring again, we'll bring again...")
> >
> > Is there an official translation of that song? Extraordinarily pretty
> > song.
>
> Do you mean it's a Dutch song?
If we're talking about "Tulpen uit Amsterdam", the chorus of which has a
first line that could be translated as above, yes.
Waltzy tune, with a last line that your average bathtub singer can pour
all zir emotions into.
> I was singing it to Sasha when we changed planes in
> Schipol.
Appropriate.
Holly Gallup
Eijkhout) wrote:
>Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Which reminds me. I heard a book reviewed on the radio once, a few years
>> ago, which was a translation from the Dutch, and it was about a sort
>> of fantasy "South Holland" that had mountains and dramatic scenery and
>> was there instead of the rest of Europe. I didn't hear the author or the
>> title - this is what happens with putting the radio on when I'm in the
>> kitchen - and haven't seen it mentioned since. Has anyone else come
>> across it? I should sensibly ask on rasfw, but as I'm here and talking
>> about Holland.
>
>Pure coincidence that I saw this post. Subject line, shmubject line, eh?
>
>The book is "In the Dutch Mountains" (not sure about the "in") by Cees
>Nooteboom.
_In the Dutch Mountains_ is indeed the way the title appears in
the "list of books by the same author" in my copy of _Rituals_.
> It's a good book, but not his best, which is "Rituals" which
>I tend to give away as a present quite often. Quite a bit of Nooteboom's
>oevre has been translated. He's a quite remarkable type overall, fluent
>in half a dozen European languages, and generally rather cosmopolitan.
>Did some great travel writing which I think has not been translated.
Funny you should mention this. A good friend of mine gave me a
copy of _Rituals_ a couple of years ago, and your post reminded
me that I hadn't ever gotten around to reading it. So I moved it
to the top of my stack and just finished it.
Nooteboom packs a lot into 140 pages. By juxtaposing three main
characters, he explores a range of questions about the ways in
which we create meaning for our lives, including whether or not
that ultimately connects us to each other or keeps us from being
able to connect to each other. It's full of wonderfully rich
descriptions, not only of the characters, but of their actions
and, through those, their philosophies.
Here are a couple of my favorite bits:
"....And so the idea of God vanished from my life, like a skier
going down a slope into the valley. Can you picture it? Seen
from a distance the tiny human figure looks black. It writes
itself like calligraphy on the white sheet of snow. A long,
graceful movement, a mysterious, illegible letter being written,
something that is there and is suddenly no longer there. For the
first time I was alone in the world, but I would not miss Him.
God sounds like an answer--that is what is most pernicious about
the word. It has so often been used as an answer. He should
have had a name that sounded like a question."
"....The seventies. No sooner had they closed the door of the
church behind them than they crawled like beggars to the bare
feet of gurus and swamis. At last they were alone in a
wonderful, empty universe that went zooming along on its homemade
rails like a train without a driver, and they were shouting for
help out of all the windows."
" 'I could have forced myself to adapt,' said Taads. 'In this
world the individual self is of such importance that it is
allowed to become absorbed in itself and to grub around in its
trivial personal history for years on end with the help of a
psychiatrist, so as to be able to cope....' "
I'm only sorry I waited so long to read it.
--holly