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What is a Windts

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Andy Schweissgut

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Nov 6, 1994, 6:28:33 PM11/6/94
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In conducting some research into my family history and genealogy, I have
accumulated three Wappenbriefe (Coat of Arms Letters). Each is in itself
slightly different, and I am quite sure that two of them are out and out
forgeries. Each of them has elements in common, and that is in the
discription of the Wappen (Coat):

"...ein weissen Schilt, Unten darein ein Verdertheil eines Schwartzen
Windts, mit ausgereckten fuessen, rotter aussgeschlagener Zungen, mit
einem rothern Wind-Band und Eisen-Farben Ring..."

I really have no problem translating most of this, but I am having a
problem with "Windts".

Please post help, or email me at an...@access.digex.com

Im foraus bedanke ich mich.

Thanks in advance.

Andy

Michael Betsch

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Nov 7, 1994, 11:51:10 AM11/7/94
to
In <39jor1$1...@access3.digex.net> an...@access3.digex.net
(Andy Schweissgut) writes:

>"...ein weissen Schilt, Unten darein ein Verdertheil eines Schwartzen
>Windts, mit ausgereckten fuessen, rotter aussgeschlagener Zungen, mit
>einem rothern Wind-Band und Eisen-Farben Ring..."

>I really have no problem translating most of this, but I am having a
>problem with "Windts".

>Please post help, or email me at an...@access.digex.

According to: Friedrich Kluge, Etymologisches Woerterbuch der deutschen
Sprache, 21st ed., Walter de Gruyter 1975, (entry "Windhund"), the contempo-
rary term "Windhund" (about = fast racing dog) replaced the older term
"Wind" (same meaning), (which had been in use in middle and old high German)
around the 16. century. "Windhund" is thus one example of compound words
formed to make the (original) meaning of the (original) first component
more transparent by adding a second (explaining) component.
Michael

Julian C Grammer

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Nov 15, 1994, 7:54:09 PM11/15/94
to

In article <39jor1$1...@access3.digex.net>, Andy Schweissgut (an...@access3.digex.net) writes:
>
>In conducting some research into my family history and genealogy, I have
>accumulated three Wappenbriefe (Coat of Arms Letters). Each is in itself
>slightly different, and I am quite sure that two of them are out and out
>forgeries. Each of them has elements in common, and that is in the
>discription of the Wappen (Coat):
>
>"...ein weissen Schilt, Unten darein ein Verdertheil eines Schwartzen
>Windts, mit ausgereckten fuessen, rotter aussgeschlagener Zungen, mit
>einem rothern Wind-Band und Eisen-Farben Ring..."
>
>I really have no problem translating most of this, but I am having a
>problem with "Windts".

I came across this once amny yaers ago, but can't recall. I think
it was an old (ancient?) spelling. I'll check it out out and post
when I find it.

>Please post help, or email me at an...@access.digex.com
>
>Im foraus bedanke ich mich.

why would you want to thank *yourself* in advance?

>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Andy

Julian

Arthur Teschler

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Nov 17, 1994, 5:11:59 AM11/17/94
to
Julian C Grammer (jul...@kesteven.win-uk.net) wrote:
:
: In article <39jor1$1...@access3.digex.net>, Andy Schweissgut (an...@access3.digex.net) writes:
: >Im foraus bedanke ich mich.

: why would you want to thank *yourself* in advance?
Except for the 'f' which should be a 'v' this is very good and polite German.
to thank = danken or sich bedanken. The latter is reflexive. So he does not
thank himself.
: >
: >Thanks in advance.
Im Voraus bedanke ich mich or
Ich danke im Voraus.
--
Arthur

MARGARET FRANCES DISBURY

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Nov 17, 1994, 12:24:06 PM11/17/94
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In article <CzEpn...@muster.hrz.uni-giessen.de>,

And to take it one step further - correct me if I'm wrong -
'danken' takes the dative "Ich danke Ihnen". Sich/mich/euch
(etc.) are the accusative case. So he couldn't have been
thanking himself.

Fran


--
___________________________________________________________________
Fran Disbury JANET: m...@uk.ac.aber Internet: m...@aber.ac.uk
-------------------------------------------------------------------

WOLLNER CHRISTIAN FB 4

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Nov 18, 1994, 7:50:34 AM11/18/94
to
In article <3ag3jm$i...@osfb.aber.ac.uk> m...@aber.ac.uk (MARGARET FRANCES DISBURY) writes:
>From: m...@aber.ac.uk (MARGARET FRANCES DISBURY)
>Subject: Re: What is a Windts
>Date: 17 Nov 1994 17:24:06 -0000

>In article <CzEpn...@muster.hrz.uni-giessen.de>,
>Arthur Teschler <Arthur....@uni-giessen.de> wrote:
>>Julian C Grammer (jul...@kesteven.win-uk.net) wrote:
>>:
>>: In article <39jor1$1...@access3.digex.net>, Andy Schweissgut (an...@access3.digex.net) writes:
>>: >Im foraus bedanke ich mich.
>>: why would you want to thank *yourself* in advance?
>>Except for the 'f' which should be a 'v' this is very good and polite German.
>>to thank = danken or sich bedanken. The latter is reflexive. So he does not
>>thank himself.
>>: >
>>: >Thanks in advance.
>>Im Voraus bedanke ich mich or
>>Ich danke im Voraus.
>>--
>>Arthur

>And to take it one step further - correct me if I'm wrong -
>'danken' takes the dative "Ich danke Ihnen". Sich/mich/euch
>(etc.) are the accusative case. So he couldn't have been
>thanking himself.

Right ! Excellent conclusion !

>Fran

Chris.

Bernd Schulten

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Nov 18, 1994, 5:48:45 PM11/18/94
to

Im Artikel <3ag3jm$i...@osfb.aber.ac.uk>, MARGARET FRANCES DISBURY (m...@aber.ac.uk) schreibt
>In article <CzEpn...@muster.hrz.uni-giessen.de>,

>>Except for the 'f' which should be a 'v' this is very good and polite German.
>>to thank = danken or sich bedanken. The latter is reflexive. So he does not
>>thank himself.
>>: >
>>: >Thanks in advance.
>>Im Voraus bedanke ich mich or
>>Ich danke im Voraus.
>>--
>>Arthur
>
>And to take it one step further - correct me if I'm wrong -
>'danken' takes the dative "Ich danke Ihnen". Sich/mich/euch
>(etc.) are the accusative case. So he couldn't have been
>thanking himself.

As Arthur already mentioned: it is a reflexive verb. the basic form
is "sich bedanken" i.e. this is a verb with the reflexive pronomen
standing in the accusative. In cases where the reflexive pronomen
stand s in the accusativ the verb itself is intransive.
Now it comes: Ich bedanke "mich" (reflexive pronomen accusative)
bei Dir (object dativ).- BTW this is the longform of the polite
statement and "ich bedanke mich" is Umgangssprache -.
The pronomen "mich" reflects the Ich and not the possible object Du.
Or
Ich bedanke mich für den Kuchen!
| | | |
reflex.verb accusat. object

(mich/sich are called prepositional objects and "bei" and "für" are
prepositions whereby the dativ object follows the preposition "bei"
and the accusative object follows "für". The preposition dictates
the case.

Consequently Ich bedanke mich (bei Dir/Ihnen/Euch etc) is correct.
-----------------------------------------

I hope I have not initiated more confusion.

Bernd

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Bernd Schulten email: schu...@nirwana.gerwin.net
Rather Broich 5 compuserve: 100331,1724
40472 Düsseldorf Tel.: (211)-656-149
-------------------------------------------------------------------



Dick Kaulfuss

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Nov 18, 1994, 10:55:04 AM11/18/94
to
MARGARET FRANCES DISBURY (m...@aber.ac.uk) wrote:
: In article <CzEpn...@muster.hrz.uni-giessen.de>,

: Arthur Teschler <Arthur....@uni-giessen.de> wrote:
: >Julian C Grammer (jul...@kesteven.win-uk.net) wrote:
: >:
: >: In article <39jor1$1...@access3.digex.net>, Andy Schweissgut (an...@access3.digex.net) writes:
: >: >Im foraus bedanke ich mich.
: >: why would you want to thank *yourself* in advance?
: >Except for the 'f' which should be a 'v' this is very good and polite German.
: >to thank = danken or sich bedanken. The latter is reflexive. So he does not
: >thank himself.
: >: >
: >: >Thanks in advance.
: >Im Voraus bedanke ich mich or
: >Ich danke im Voraus.
: >--
: >Arthur

: And to take it one step further - correct me if I'm wrong -
: 'danken' takes the dative "Ich danke Ihnen". Sich/mich/euch
: (etc.) are the accusative case. So he couldn't have been
: thanking himself.

But the "be-" makes "danken" transitive (cf steigen/besteigen), so it
normally requires a direct object (accusative) to make sense. However,
reflexive verbs are different again, and somewhat alien to us native
English speakers. While it is sometimes helpful for us to consider
reflexive pronouns as direct/indirect objects (eg in French, to decide
which auxiliary to use when forming the compound tenses), IMO it is best to
regard reflexive verbs as self-contained entities, idioms even, and resist
the temptation to analyze them further.

Dick (an unfortunate name to have when posting to a German newsgroup :-)

: --

Gerhard Lenssen

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Nov 20, 1994, 3:00:00 AM11/20/94
to
> >
> >Im foraus bedanke ich mich.
>
> why would you want to thank *yourself* in advance?
No, that's correct; he doesn't thank himself. If he wouldt, he shouldt
write "ich danke mir im voraus".
Tschuess, Gerhard
--

Bernd Kassler

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Nov 21, 1994, 1:37:00 PM11/21/94
to
Hi MARGARET FRANCES DISBURY (or m...@aber.ac.uk)
on 17 Nov 94 you wrote in alt.usage.german
on behalf of : Re: What is a Windts

>Arthur Teschler <Arthur....@uni-giessen.de> wrote:
>>Julian C Grammer (jul...@kesteven.win-uk.net) wrote:

>>: >(an...@access3.digex.net) writes: Im foraus bedanke ich mich.

Himmel, Arsch und Zwirn.........
(Sky, ass, and yarn)..............:-)

aber was ist nun "Windts" ?????
(but what ist this "Windts")


Bernd Kassler (aka mintaka)...we are stardust, we are golden
.......et blesse mon coeur avec une langueur monotone.......
No Hope...........................................NO CARRIER
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Thomas Jurgensen

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Nov 22, 1994, 11:42:44 AM11/22/94
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Thus spake min...@alnilam.toppoint.de (Bernd Kassler):

>Hi MARGARET FRANCES DISBURY (or m...@aber.ac.uk)
>on 17 Nov 94 you wrote in alt.usage.german
>on behalf of : Re: What is a Windts

>>Arthur Teschler <Arthur....@uni-giessen.de> wrote:
> >>Julian C Grammer (jul...@kesteven.win-uk.net) wrote:
> >>: >(an...@access3.digex.net) writes: Im foraus bedanke ich mich.

>Himmel, Arsch und Zwirn.........
>(Sky, ass, and yarn)..............:-)

>aber was ist nun "Windts" ?????
>(but what ist this "Windts")

Mit Windts ist ein Windhund (greyhound) gemeint.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen Thomas Juergensen
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Juergensen, sen. stud. DAIMI, Aarhus University, Denmark
Address: Arresoevej 9B, 8240 Risskov, DK -Denmark, tel.: 86 17 71 56
Favourites: Go, Lotus II, LaTeX & TeX, Amiga, HP snakes, PC.

Bernd Kassler

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Nov 22, 1994, 3:32:00 PM11/22/94
to
Hi Thomas
(or pir...@daimi.aau.dk)
on 22 Nov 94 you wrote in alt.usage.german

on behalf of : Re: What is a Windts
>
>Mit Windts ist ein Windhund (greyhound) gemeint.
>
mange tak .:-)
Bernd.Kassler Dipl.Ozeanogr................... KIEL-GERMANY

.......et blesse mon coeur avec une langueur monotone.......
min...@toppoint.de...........we are stardust, we are golden
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