Youtube: Chinese Dissident Liu Xiaobo Sentenced to 11 Years.
Peter Terpstra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydo4FnqfE_Y
Prominent Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo was sentenced on Friday to 11 years in
prison. It was on charges of so-called "incitement to subvert state power"—a
charge the Chinese regime often uses to prosecute dissidents.
Liu is a veteran of the 1989 Tiananmen pro-democracy protests. And recently he
was a main author of the Charter 08 manifesto, which called for sweeping
political reforms.
Chinese authorities barred foreign diplomats from attending court proceedings
this week. But many gathered here outside the courthouse.
[Gregory May, Officer from U.S. Embassy]:
"The United States government is deeply concerned by the sentence of 11 years
in prison announced today in the case of prominent Chinese democracy act of
Liu Xiaobo, under the charge of inciting subversion of state power.
Persecution of individuals for the peaceful expression of political views is
inconsistent with internationally recognized norms of human rights.
Liu supporter Yang Licai says he had anticipated the guilty verdict.
[Yang Licai, Supporter of Liu Xiaobo]:
"I understand the Chinese government. I am not surprised at all of the court
ruling."
Liu has been in custody since a few days before Charter 08 was launched online
Dec. 10, 2008, to mark the anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human
Rights.
The announcement of the verdict against Liu comes on Christmas Day—but that
did not seem to stop international media from reporting on his case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydo4FnqfE_Y
--
Amnesty International Report 2009 on China:
http://report2009.amnesty.org/en/regions/asia-pacific/china
rst9
He should be executed.
tfkmjk6262
"rst9" <rst9...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cf7ababd-2753-421e...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 30, 4:04 pm, Peter Terpstra <pe...@dharma.dnsdojo.org> wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydo4FnqfE_Y
>
> Prominent Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo was sentenced on Friday to 11 years
> in
> prison. It was on charges of so-called "incitement to subvert state
report2009
CRAZY!
Rusty Old Fool, even now you still insist that the Holocaust never
happened. Everyone has refuted you even your sidekick Psycho Xangdi
could not defend you. Rusty, YOU ARE CRAZY! Go to mental hospital and
stay there!
> He should be executed.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Jakub A. Krzewicki
contaminated soc.culture.china with the following letter:
> He should be executed.
What for? Petitioning to change the political system by legal means is not
subversion. He did not not demand anybody to overthrow China's constitution
by force. If he did, it would be a subversion, but he only petitioned to
change the system by legal means. From when caling to do anything by legal
means is an act of subversion?
--
tois egregorosin hena kai koinon kosmon einai
ton de koimomenon hekaston eis idion apostrephesthai
Peter Terpstra
A happy new year to you to Jakub A. Krzewicki!
>> He should be executed.
>
> What for? Petitioning to change the political system by legal means is not
> subversion. He did not not demand anybody to overthrow China's constitution
> by force. If he did, it would be a subversion, but he only petitioned to
> change the system by legal means. From when caling to do anything by legal
> means is an act of subversion?
Absolutely right!
That's freedom of speech.
Peter
Jakub A. Krzewicki
<pe...@dharma.dnsdojo.org> contaminated soc.culture.china with the
following letter:
> Absolutely right!
> That's freedom of speech.
But don't be too excited Peter. Lu Xiaobo is a big error of Chinese
judiciary, but some another controversial decisions seem to be quite
reasonable, like executing Akmal Sh.
I have a really profound amount of doubt about e.g. right of China to Tibet,
but on the other side I have no such doubt about Chinese Uyghuristan as a
historical part of China as early as during the Han Dynasty. The Chinese
government can make big mistakes, but also is right in quite many cases.
I'm not exclusively "pro-PRC" or "anti-PRC", I can see both advantages and
weaknesses of the present Chinese state.
Jakub A. Krzewicki
following letter:
> Absolutely right!
> That's freedom of speech.
But don't be too excited Peter. Lu Xiaobo is a big error of Chinese
judiciary, but some another controversial decisions seem to be quite
reasonable, like executing Akmal Sh.
I have a really profound amount of doubt about e.g. right of China to Tibet,
but on the other side I have no such doubt about Chinese Uyghuristan as a
historical part of China as early as during the Han Dynasty. The Chinese
government can make big mistakes, but also is right in quite many cases.
I'm not exclusively "pro-PRC" or "anti-PRC", I can see both advantages and
weaknesses of the present Chinese state.
PS. I wissh them to continue their harsh policy against real criminals, but
on the other side to change their present policy against ideological
pluralism.
Peter Terpstra
> But don't be too excited Peter. Lu Xiaobo is a big error of Chinese
> judiciary, but some another controversial decisions seem to be quite
> reasonable, like executing Akmal Sh.
The 13th Dalai Lama had good reasons to abolish death sentence in 1912.
Death sentence is not a contribution to Humanity and it undermines Justice,
beyond that I know that Chinese jurisdiction is a big mass, one of the reasons
of that is that the CCP is above the law so there is not even justice at all.
Kind Regards,
Peter Terpstra
> I have a really profound amount of doubt about e.g. right of China to Tibet,
> but on the other side I have no such doubt about Chinese Uyghuristan as a
> historical part of China as early as during the Han Dynasty.
I have seen maps where Tibet was an independent country, East Turkestan has
never claimed independence it ask for justice, towards its culture and Human
Rights and a en to the mass emigration of an Chinese provoked by the CCP.
> The Chinese government can make big mistakes, but also is right in quite
> many cases.
> I'm not exclusively "pro-PRC" or "anti-PRC", I can see both advantages and
> weaknesses of the present Chinese state.
The weakness of the PRC has a very big shadow, you are ignoring that?
> PS. I wissh them to continue their harsh policy against real criminals,
Also Buddhism believes in Justice and that is far beyond personal revenge
(because you think that that is a bad person), punishment or other selfish
actions. The society needs to be protected against harm from anyone, the CCP
is also very criminal (Human rights abuses, corruption, lies, theft and other)
and the persons that cause harm need to get that what can cure there illness.
Kind Regards,
Jakub A. Krzewicki
> Death sentence is not a contribution to Humanity and it undermines
> Justice, beyond that I know that Chinese jurisdiction is a big mass, one
> of the reasons of that is that the CCP is above the law so there is not
> even justice at all.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Peter
It's a good argument but in connection with the class of people who take
more care to their education and conduct. Some people cultivate nobility
and using the mass jurisdiction to this people is really an insult of
justice. They can break some political norms, can be dissident and
sometimes even step into the kind of subversion, but they are unlikely to
have any real motivation to the common so-called "blue collar" crimes.
Confucius said that the people who follow the "li" don't need to be placed
under _any_ law. So, not only uder the capital law. Why do you make it as
an exception?
But experience shows us that not all the people is going to jump the noble
class threshold. There are also many people who really don't care for their
education, upbringing, conduct and anything else and prefer to be
neo-barbarian despite the civilization gives them some opportunities to
become noble people. There is no point to be lenient to somebody who in the
common sense is a villain and it's obvious that they neglect their
Buddha-nature instead cultivating it. It's no more point to apply the
measures of Confucian humanitarism to these ethically handicapped people
than to the raging plague of rabid dogs. It's much wiser if they are an
object of acting rather in accordance with the rules of Legalist than
Confucian philosophy.
Jakub A. Krzewicki
> I have seen maps where Tibet was an independent country, East Turkestan
> has never claimed independence it ask for justice, towards its culture and
> Human Rights and a en to the mass emigration of an Chinese provoked by the
> CCP.
The culture of minorities like Hui and Uighurs is based on the profound
errors of the Muslim religion which according to some interpretations of
the Kalachakra Tantra is not only an erroneous ideology, but harmful to
Buddhism. Do you deny that those people in Xinjiang were Buddhist or
Manichean several hundred years ago but they were forced to change their
religion by the brutal Muslim conquerors? Do you deny the harms made to
Buddhism in the Gandhara (now Afghanistan), Urgyen (now Swat), India,
Maldives and Malay Archipelago? There should be a balance without love to
humans (and other living beings) and wisdom which makes to protect the
skillful means to help those beings.
> The weakness of the PRC has a very big shadow, you are ignoring that?
No, I don't but I am a realist and I think that a violent change in the
Chinese political system would be much more harmful than some "Fabian"
evolution.
> Also Buddhism believes in Justice and that is far beyond personal revenge
> (because you think that that is a bad person), punishment or other selfish
> actions.
Punishment (including capital one) according to Buddhism is one of the ways
of helping the criminals to clean their karmic record. In the political
doctrine it's a way of ruling the class of people who have not Confucian
"li" as a signpost.
tfkmjk6262
muderers of the 20th century did a deal which undid that.
E Turkestan for most of its history was not part China. It was brought into
the Manchu empire in the 18th century when they completed the genocide of
the Dzunghar Mongols
"Peter Terpstra" <pe...@dharma.dnsdojo.org> wrote in message
news:6265239.C7uf20v8QY@dharma...
Jakub A. Krzewicki
<ke...@ihug.co.nz> contaminated soc.culture.china with the following
letter:
> E Turkestan for most of its history was not part China. It was brought
> into the Manchu empire in the 18th century when they completed the
> genocide of the Dzunghar Mongols
Unlike Tibet, Xiyu was a part of China during Han and Tang dynasty.
The silk road belonged to the Chinese Buddhists, it's a craddle of Buddhism
in China.
Peter Terpstra
> It was independent in the 1930s - Mao and Stalin - towof the greatest mass
> muderers of the 20th century did a deal which undid that.
>
> E Turkestan for most of its history was not part China. It was brought into
> the Manchu empire in the 18th century when they completed the genocide of
> the Dzunghar Mongols.
Thank You.
abia...@my-deja.com
Tang dynasty. Here's map of Tang dynasty (618-908 AD):
http://homepages.stmartin.edu/fac_staff/rlangill/HIS%20217%20maps/Tang%20dynasty%20map.JPG
On Jan 3, 8:42 am, "Jakub A. Krzewicki" <ebre...@poczta.onet.pl>
wrote: