Werner's ZeroHedge

[El Castor]

Wikipedia on Zero Hedge ...
"In 2009, shortly after the blog was founded, news reports identified
Daniel Ivandjiiski, a Bulgarian-born former hedge-fund analyst who was
barred from the industry for insider trading by FINRA in 2008, as the
founder of the site, and reported that "Durden" was a pseudonym for
Ivandjiiski. One contributor, who spoke to New York magazine after an
interview was arranged by Ivandjiiski, said that "up to 40" people
were permitted to post under the "Durden" name. The website is
registered in Bulgaria at the same address as that of Strogo Sekretno,
a site run by Ivandjiiski's father, Krassimir Ivandjiiski. Zero Hedge
is registered under the name Georgi Georgiev, a business partner of
Krassimir Ivandjiiski."

The Wikipedia piece seems fair, and provides a variety of views, but
ends with the following sentence:
"Dr. Craig Pirrong, professor at the Bauer College of Business writes
that "I have frequently written that Zero Hedge has the MO of a Soviet
agitprop operation, that it reliably peddles Russian propaganda: my
first post on this, almost exactly three years ago, noted the
parallels between Zero Hedge and Russia Today.""
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge

[GLOBALIST]

Why are Americans still fighting the Cold War. The articles in Zero Hedge are written by all kind of writers. I love finding articles and
videos where Putin himself is talking to the entire world.

I see no reason to treasure articles written by
Americans. They contain more propaganda than you
can shake a stick at. If adults can not read any
and all articles and be selective-the problem is
theirs, not the writers.

[Jack Fate]

I'm beginning to think you've been hired by the Russians as a stupid
plant to try and make people think Americans are as stupid as you are.

[b flanier]

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 12:48:50 PM UTC-7, Jack Fate wrote:
> I'm beginning to think you've been hired by the Russians as a stupid
> plant to try and make people think Americans are as stupid as you are.

<gasp!>

And how do you think Trump got elected? Half the people are below average.

[El Castor]

You think Hillary attracted the above average? Bwaaahhhaaahaaaa!

[me]

Would that not also explain why Obama got elected? In any case enough o them recognized Hillary was the worse of the two.

[wolfbat359]

She won the election by votes cast!

[GLOBALIST]

If she "won" the election.....how did Russia interfere with that?

[Tzatz Ziki]

On 1/20/2018 11:48 AM, Jack Off wrote:

> I'm beginning to think

Let us know when you actually think.

"...but I will no longer be posting here. No one here is going to change
so, basically, I'm wasting the little time I have left by posting to
this obscure little group full of stupid bigoted and racist Trump
lovers."

[rumpelstiltskin]

Bernie did.

[mg]

ZeroHedge is an antiestablishment news source which I have
found to be more accurate than the mainstream news sources.
The reason that a lot of people don't like it is probably
because a lot of people now days don't like to hear the
truth.



-------------------------------------
I know that even now, having watched
enough television, you probably won't
even refer to them as lepers so as to
spare their feelings. You probably
call them 'parts-dropping-off
challenged' or something.
-- Christopher Moore, Lamb:
The Gospel According to Biff

[El Castor]

Bernie is a socialist. Socialism attracts the brainless -- present
company not excepted.

[El Castor]

The next to the last sentences in the Wikipedia piece, and possibly
the only time I have agreed with Paul Krugman ...
"Economist and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman describes Zero
Hedge as a scaremongering outlet that promotes fears of hyperinflation
and an "obviously ridiculous" form of "monetary permahawkery."Krugman
notes that Bill McBride of Calculated Risk, an economics blog, has
treated Zero Hedge with "appropriate contempt.""
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge

[rumpelstiltskin]

On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 13:38:34 -0800, El Castor

<JustUsC...@Here.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 20:14:48 -0800, rumpelstiltskin<x...@y.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 14:16:22 -0800, El Castor
>><JustUsC...@Here.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 13:36:39 -0800 (PST), b flanier
>>><bfla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 12:48:50 PM UTC-7, Jack Fate wrote:
>>>>> I'm beginning to think you've been hired by the Russians as a stupid
>>>>> plant to try and make people think Americans are as stupid as you are.
>>>>
>>>><gasp!>
>>>>
>>>>And how do you think Trump got elected? Half the people are below average.
>>>
>>>You think Hillary attracted the above average? Bwaaahhhaaahaaaa!
>>
>>
>> Bernie did.
>>
>Bernie is a socialist. Socialism attracts the brainless -- present
>company not excepted.

And a happy new year to you too.

[mg]

On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 13:45:11 -0800, El Castor

Zero Hedge has at least two features: (1) Financial and
Economic, and (2) News. It's only their news feature that I
was referring to. I've never paid any attention to their
financial/economic forecasts and advice.

A recent news item that I found interesting, for instance,
was "Why California Has The Nations Worst Poverty Rate".
This article met with a lot of skepticism, including from
Islander, as I recall. However, it looks to me like it was
dead on and totally accurate.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-18/why-california-has-nations-worst-poverty-rate

[El Castor]

And one that begins with a link to a previous article in the LA Times
-- which I have already posted about.

[mg]

On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 02:02:19 -0800, El Castor

The reason I referenced that article is because you had
already read it and you know that it is accurate and, once
again, what I'm saying is that I have found the news stories
on Zero Hedge to be just as accurate as anyone else's.




-------------------------------------------
We are not afraid to entrust the American
people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas,
alien philosophies, and competitive values.
For a nation that is afraid to let its
people judge the truth and falsehood in an
open market is a nation that is afraid of
its people.
-- John F. Kennedy

[El Castor]

Any good instrument of propaganda takes care to publish true, or
seemingly true, stories which have been selected to promote a
particular idea -- in this case the corrupt evil nature of the US, and
Western Europe, but particularly the US. Of course it also publishes
bullshit opinion and conspiracy theories that promote the same causes.
Bullshit opinion is difficult to disprove, and ZeroHedge is wall to
wall with that stuff -- stuff designed to inflame those who want to
believe that the US is an evil oligarchy. Someone who wants their
gloomy world view confirmed. Sound like anyone you know?

BTW -- there is always some good news -- unemployment is down, GDP up,
DOW reaches all time high, Apple to repatriate hundreds of billions,
etc. Does ZeroHedge ever publish anything of that nature?

[me]

There is a search field on ZH. Use it.

[El Castor]

On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 20:31:55 -0800 (PST), me <werner...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Just looking is more than sufficient -- an unending flow of gloom and
doom. A conspiracy theory masquerading as news.

[El Castor]

On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 20:31:55 -0800 (PST), me <werner...@gmail.com>
wrote:

OK -- I searched for "Putin" and discovered what a marvelous world
leader he is.

[b flanier]

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 9:31:57 PM UTC-7,Werner wrote:
> There is a search field on ZH. Use it.

You seem a little testy at the unmasking of ZH, no?

[mg]

On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 19:30:35 -0800, El Castor

Admit it, Jeff, you would like to censor news and news
sources that you disagree with, even if it is true. After
all, there are situations where Big Brother needs to protect
me and you from the truth, right?

>
>
>BTW -- there is always some good news -- unemployment is down, GDP up,
>DOW reaches all time high, Apple to repatriate hundreds of billions,
>etc. Does ZeroHedge ever publish anything of that nature?
>
>

That's psychobabble. I'm not into psychobabble and you're
changing the subject. I'm not looking for good news, or bad
news. I'm just looking for the truth. Remember Sgt. Joe
Friday, who used to say, "Just the facts, Ma'am". That's
what I'm looking for.

The subject is how reliable, accurate, honest, and truthful
ZeroHedge news items are and my experience leads me to think
that Zero Hedge is just as honest as CNN, MSNBC, Fox News,
and many others, and probably even more honest.




---------------------------------
If you don't have this freedom of
the press, then all these little
fellows are weaseling around and
doing their monkey business and
they never get caught.
-- Harold R. Medina

[Josh Rosenbluth]

On 1/23/2018 1:23 AM, mg wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 19:30:35 -0800, El Castor
> <JustUsC...@Here.com> wrote:

{snip}

>> Any good instrument of propaganda takes care to publish true, or
>> seemingly true, stories which have been selected to promote a
>> particular idea -- in this case the corrupt evil nature of the US, and
>> Western Europe, but particularly the US. Of course it also publishes
>> bullshit opinion and conspiracy theories that promote the same causes.
>> Bullshit opinion is difficult to disprove, and ZeroHedge is wall to
>> wall with that stuff -- stuff designed to inflame those who want to
>> believe that the US is an evil oligarchy. Someone who wants their
>> gloomy world view confirmed. Sound like anyone you know?
>>
>>
> Admit it, Jeff, you would like to censor news and news
> sources that you disagree with, even if it is true. After
> all, there are situations where Big Brother needs to protect
> me and you from the truth, right?

Although I seldom agree with Jeff, I have never known him to want to
censor things. He's a strong Freedom of Speech proponent.

> The subject is how reliable, accurate, honest, and truthful
> ZeroHedge news items are and my experience leads me to think
> that Zero Hedge is just as honest as CNN, MSNBC, Fox News,
> and many others, and probably even more honest.

Can you back this claim up with data?

[mg]

I think everyone and every news organization deserves the
benefit of the doubt when it comes to accuracy and honesty
and anyone who questions their integrity, or accuracy, needs
to at least provide some evidence supporting their
accusation. In this country, afterall, we are innocent until
proven guilty.

Jeff hasn't provided that evidence, and, since I'm not the
one making the accusation, I don't think that I should have
to provide any evidence as to their integrity, etc., beyond
what I have already provided.

However, I'm always willing to do some research with almost
anyone who is interested. So, why don't you start things off
by finding a ZeroHedge news item that is unfactual and then
I'll find a MSM article that is unfactual and we'll continue
with that procedure and keep a running count as we go along.

[Josh Rosenbluth]

... only in criminal law.

> Jeff hasn't provided that evidence, and, since I'm not the
> one making the accusation, I don't think that I should have
> to provide any evidence as to their integrity, etc., beyond
> what I have already provided.

Had you opened up with this argument, you would be on solid ground. You
instead chose to make claims of your own.

> However, I'm always willing to do some research with almost
> anyone who is interested. So, why don't you start things off
> by finding a ZeroHedge news item that is unfactual and then
> I'll find a MSM article that is unfactual and we'll continue
> with that procedure and keep a running count as we go along.

I don't have a dog in this hunt other than to say I find the opinion
pieces that Werner posts in this forum (I don't read Zero Hedge) to be
ludicrously conspiratorial (but, I agree their opinion pieces do not
necessarily reflect the accuracy of their news reports). Also,
anecdotes of false news items make for flimsy evidence.

[mg]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 09:07:32 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth

Don't you think that's true ethically, also?

[El Castor]

I am a big supporter of the 1st Amendment. I DO NOT want to censor
anyone. DO NOT!! -- clear?

I DO support my right, and yours, to speak out, question, and
criticize -- which is what I am doing when I point out the Bulgarian
origin of Zero Hedge and the Russian origin of RT-- and the likelihood
that they are both propaganda arms of the Russian government. The
truth is not censorship. What you view as censorship is simply me
using my freedom of speech to speak what I believe is the truth. Get
it?

>>BTW -- there is always some good news -- unemployment is down, GDP up,
>>DOW reaches all time high, Apple to repatriate hundreds of billions,
>>etc. Does ZeroHedge ever publish anything of that nature?
>>
>>
>That's psychobabble. I'm not into psychobabble and you're
>changing the subject. I'm not looking for good news, or bad
>news. I'm just looking for the truth. Remember Sgt. Joe
>Friday, who used to say, "Just the facts, Ma'am". That's
>what I'm looking for.

With all due respect, you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the
ass. You are looking for confirmation of your gloomy conspiratorial
view of the world, and ZH and RT fit the bill.

>The subject is how reliable, accurate, honest, and truthful
>ZeroHedge news items are and my experience leads me to think
>that Zero Hedge is just as honest as CNN, MSNBC, Fox News,
>and many others, and probably even more honest.
>

They are all biased, one way or another. ALL -- and that word includes
ZH and RT. I admit Fox and CNN bias. Do you admit ZH and RT bias?
No, of course you don't -- they are the ones who support your gloomy,
paranoid, conspiracy ridden view of the word -- so they must be
speaking the truth.

[me]

You don't see. You imagine.

[mg]

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 10:10:37 -0800, El Castor

You support your right and mine to speak out, but do you
support my right to watch RT news and do you support the US
government's decision to require RT to register as a foreign
agent?

----------------

"Registering the Cable Channel RT as a Foreign Agent Is a
Threat to Press Freedom

By Katrina vanden Heuvel, NOVEMBER 14, 2017

he decision by the US Department of Justice (DOJ) to compel
the Russian-state media outlet RT (an English-language cable
news network) to register as a “foreign agent” is intended
to not only stigmatize its reporting as foreign propaganda
but also tar anyone who appears on its programs as Russian
dupes.

RT will register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act
(FARA) of 1938, the aim of which, according to the
nonpartisan transparency watchdog Sunlight Foundation, was
“To make it easier for federal counterespionage authorities
to keep tabs on U.S.-based individuals and other groups
helping to drum up support for the Nazi movement and keep
America neutral in the war.” Amendments added in 1966
shifted its focus to political activities, such as lobbying.

But whatever the legal basis for requiring RT to register as
a foreign agent, the Justice Department’s decision is
clearly in response to intense domestic political and media
pressure. Many of the assumptions behind that pressure are
dubious or based on myths. . . ."
https://www.thenation.com/article/registering-the-cable-channel-rt-a-foreign-agent-is-a-threat-to-press-freedom/




------------------------------
We can never be sure that the
opinion we are endeavoring to
stifle is a false opinion; and
if we were sure, stifling it
would be an evil still.
-- John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859

>
>
>>>BTW -- there is always some good news -- unemployment is down, GDP up,
>>>DOW reaches all time high, Apple to repatriate hundreds of billions,
>>>etc. Does ZeroHedge ever publish anything of that nature?
>>>
>>>
>>That's psychobabble. I'm not into psychobabble and you're
>>changing the subject. I'm not looking for good news, or bad
>>news. I'm just looking for the truth. Remember Sgt. Joe
>>Friday, who used to say, "Just the facts, Ma'am". That's
>>what I'm looking for.
>
>With all due respect, you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the
>ass. You are looking for confirmation of your gloomy conspiratorial
>view of the world, and ZH and RT fit the bill.
>
>

. . . More psychobabble horseshit.

>
>
>>The subject is how reliable, accurate, honest, and truthful
>>ZeroHedge news items are and my experience leads me to think
>>that Zero Hedge is just as honest as CNN, MSNBC, Fox News,
>>and many others, and probably even more honest.
>
>
>They are all biased, one way or another. ALL -- and that word includes
>ZH and RT. I admit Fox and CNN bias. Do you admit ZH and RT bias?
>No, of course you don't -- they are the ones who support your gloomy,
>paranoid, conspiracy ridden view of the word -- so they must be
>speaking the truth.
>
>

That's not true. I readily admit ZH and RT have bias and I
think I've probably told you that in the past.

[Josh Rosenbluth]

On 1/23/2018 9:48 AM, mg wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 09:07:32 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth
> <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:

{snip}

>>>>> The subject is how reliable, accurate, honest, and truthful
>>>>> ZeroHedge news items are and my experience leads me to think
>>>>> that Zero Hedge is just as honest as CNN, MSNBC, Fox News,
>>>>> and many others, and probably even more honest.
>>>>
>>>> Can you back this claim up with data?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I think everyone and every news organization deserves the
>>> benefit of the doubt when it comes to accuracy and honesty
>>> and anyone who questions their integrity, or accuracy, needs
>>> to at least provide some evidence supporting their
>>> accusation. In this country, afterall, we are innocent until
>>> proven guilty.
>>
>> ... only in criminal law.
>>
>>
> Don't you think that's true ethically, also?

Not necessarily. For example, consider Roy Moore. Many people voted
against him based on the allegations against him without proof beyond a
reasonable doubt. Those voting decisions strike me as reasonable.

[El Castor]

I support your right, but I don't believe that Comcast or Time Warner
should be required to carry it.

>
>"Registering the Cable Channel RT as a Foreign Agent Is a
>Threat to Press Freedom
>
>By Katrina vanden Heuvel, NOVEMBER 14, 2017
>
>he decision by the US Department of Justice (DOJ) to compel
>the Russian-state media outlet RT (an English-language cable
>news network) to register as a “foreign agent” is intended
>to not only stigmatize its reporting as foreign propaganda
>but also tar anyone who appears on its programs as Russian
>dupes.
>
>RT will register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act
>(FARA) of 1938, the aim of which, according to the
>nonpartisan transparency watchdog Sunlight Foundation, was
>“To make it easier for federal counterespionage authorities
>to keep tabs on U.S.-based individuals and other groups
>helping to drum up support for the Nazi movement and keep
>America neutral in the war.” Amendments added in 1966
>shifted its focus to political activities, such as lobbying.
>
>But whatever the legal basis for requiring RT to register as
>a foreign agent, the Justice Department’s decision is
>clearly in response to intense domestic political and media
>pressure. Many of the assumptions behind that pressure are
>dubious or based on myths. . . ."
>https://www.thenation.com/article/registering-the-cable-channel-rt-a-foreign-agent-is-a-threat-to-press-freedom/
>

"The Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) is a United States law
passed in 1938 requiring that agents representing the interests of
foreign powers in a "political or quasi-political capacity" disclose
their relationship with the foreign government and information about
related activities and finances. The purpose is to facilitate
"evaluation by the government and the American people of the
statements and activities of such persons."

"The Act requires periodic disclosure of all activities and finances
by:
people and organizations that are under control of
a foreign government, or
of organizations or of persons outside of the United States
("foreign principal"),
if they act "at the order, request, or under the direction or
control" (i.e. as "agents")
of this principal or
of persons who are "controlled or subsidized in major part" by
this principal.
Organizations under such foreign control can include political agents,
public relations counsel, publicity agents, information-service
employees, political consultants, fundraisers or those who represent
the foreign power before any agency or official of the United States
government.
The law does not include news or press services not owned by the
foreign principal."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Act

Certainly looks to me that RT is required by long standing law to
register. If they believe they are being unfairly treated, they should
take their objections to court.

Why would you object? The law has been on the books, with some
modifications, since 1938.

Would you also admit that RT's bias is likely influenced by financial
support of the Russian government?

"RT is a brand of "TV-Novosti", an "autonomous non-profit
organization", founded by the Russian news agency, RIA Novosti, on 6
April 2005.[1][9] During the economic crisis in December 2008, the
Russian government, headed by Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, included
ANO "TV-Novosti" on its list of core organizations of strategic
importance of Russia."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)