Pedophilia common in Buddhist monasteries for centuries. "It has been common in Tibet, China, Japan and elsewhere." (even though it is against the Buddhist canon)
GLOBALIST
by Uwe Siemon-Netto
UPI Religion Correspondent
July 2002
WASHINGTON, (UPI) -- Sex between clergymen and boys is by no means a
uniquely Catholic phenomenon, a noted American scholar said Wednesday
-- it's been going on in Buddhist monasteries in Asia for centuries.
"Of course, this is against the Buddhist canon," Leonard Zwilling of
the University of Wisconsin in Madison told United Press
International, "but it has been common in Tibet, China, Japan and
elsewhere."
"In fact, when the Jesuits arrived in China and Japan in the 16th
century, they were horrified by the formalized relationships between
Buddhist monks and novices who were still children. These
relationships clearly broke the celibacy rule," said Zwilling, who has
written extensively about this topic for more than three decades, and
was one of the first to do so.
Zwilling, who holds a doctoral degree in Buddhist studies said in a
telephone interview this practice continued until well into 20th
century.
Although the Buddha clearly proscribed sex of any kind in monasteries,
"we know of incidents where members of the Bob-Dob, an order enforcing
discipline among Tibetan monks, fought each other over boys,"
continued Zwilling.
"They clobbered each other with huge keys that were the tools of their
trade. We also know that generations of Dalai Lamas had their
'favorites,' although we have no proof that these relationships were
sexual."
Other studies show that Buddhist monks in Japan practiced a non-sexual
form of "pedophilia" as long ago as the 10th century, according to
Minnesota-based Ralph Underwager, a pastor, psychologist and one of
the world's leading experts on child abuse.
In an interview with Paidika, a scholarly journal specializing in the
phenomenon, Underwager and his associate Hollida Wakefield pointed out
that "the concept of Platonic love as an asexual affection is
describing pedophilia."
Underwager and Wakefield explained that the Greek philosophers
Socrates, Plato, Sophocles, Aristotle, the playwright Aristophanes and
the statesman-soldier Alcibiades "all claimed that love motivated
pedophilia."
But if they did, it wasn't in the sense of sex.
According to Zwilling, monks having engaged in "sex with penetration
and ejaculation" face expulsion from the Sangha, the monastic order
that along with the Buddha and the Dharma (teaching) is part of
Buddhism's three-fold refuge.
"This is true whether a monk has broken his vow of chastity with a
woman, a man or a child," Zwilling said. "The punishment will be less
severe if there were no penetration or ejaculation."
In that case, the offender would only be disciplined, perhaps demoted
in rank, but not evicted from the monastery, the scholar explained.
"Actually, pedophilia is hardly mentioned in Buddhism's canonical
writings," he went on. "I have only come across one passage describing
the fate of a man who loved boys. He went to hell and came to a river
filled with acid -- and boys swimming it. They were in agony.
"Out of his love for the children, the man jumped in -- and had to
suffer their pain."
Peter A. Jackson, a renowned Australian researcher on Buddhism, has
pointed out that in this faith all forms of sexuality and desire must
be transcended in order to attain the religious goal of the extinction
of suffering.
Citing the Vinaya, Theravada Buddhism's monastic code of conduct,
Jackson wrote, "Whichever monk has sexual intercourse is ... a
defeated one, and will not find communion (in the Sangha)."
The Vinaya is very explicit in condemning sexual misconduct, including
auto-sodomy (one of its chapters is titled,
"The Case of the Monk with a Long Penis"). It does not single out
homosexuality, though, which is treated as a third gender in ancient
Buddhist writings, said Zwilling.
However, the Vinaya does relate that already some 2,500 years ago, the
outrageous behavior of one "pandaka" (homosexual, in Pali, the sacred
language of Theravada Buddhism), has prompted the Buddha to ban the
ordination of such men.
The story reads thus:
"The pandaka had been ordained in a residence of monks. He went to the
young monks and encouraged them thus, 'Come all of you and assault
me.'
"The monks spoke aggressively, 'Pandaka, you will surely be ...
spiritually destroyed. Of what benefit will it be?" ...
He went to some large, stout novices and encouraged them thus, 'Come
all of you and assault me.'
The novices spoke, 'Pandaka, you will surely be destroyed. Of what
benefit will it be?'
"The pandaka then went to men who tend elephants and horses and spoke
to them thus. 'Come all of you and assault me.' The men who tend
elephants and horses assaulted him.
"The Blessed One then ordered the monks, 'Behold monks, a pandaka is
one who is not to be ordained, ... and (pandakas) who have already
been ordained must be made to disrobe.'"
According to Zwilling, homosexual behavior may not land a Buddhist
layman in hell. That kind of fate is reserved for adulterers and
rapists. On the other hand, a homosexual orientation is an extended
form of punishment for those who in a previous life have committed
such sins.
Prasok, a celebrated Thai newspaper columnist writing on Buddhism,
related that this was the fate of the Buddha's personal attendant,
Phra Ananda.
Wrote Prasok, "The reason he was born a kathoey (Thai for homosexual)
was because in a previous life he had committed the sin of adultery.
This led him to stew in hell for tens of thousands of years.
"After he was freed from hell, a portion of his old karma still
remained and led him to being reborn as kathoey for many hundreds of
lives."
While this may sound a rather severe punishment for a sexual
transgression, Buddhism may have something even worse in store for an
unfaithful husband, Zwilling told UPI: "He could be reborn as a
woman."
GLOBALIST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uwe_Siemon-Netto
So he has special mission but to report what he finds in his studies.
Evelyn
"GLOBALIST" <free....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:74ec1416-50d5-42cb...@k8g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> Credentials for the journalist, who wrote this article:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uwe_Siemon-Netto
>
> So he has special mission but to report what he finds in his studies.
Do you really imagine that I am surprised by this very old news? This is
not a buddhist problem or a catholic problem but a HUMAN problem. Human
beings who stifle their natural needs may get a bit "quirky" to put it
mildly.
I believe that human beings are not meant to be celibate. You don't know
this, but for many years I fought publicly against certain buddhist monks
who were known for sexually involving with their female students. There
is a breach of trust for a person in a position of religious superiority to
do this sort of thing. I have stuff in my computer that I have saved for
years, going after these abusers! I have been privy to stories of women
who have been seduced by high monks who have written books and are highly
respected. I helped "out" them.
In the very article you quote, you make it quite clear it is against the
rules (the vinaya) and not acceptable.
In the case of the Catholics, they not only tolerated it, but passed the
boys around amongst each other, and even protected abusers from being found
out. There has been a conspiracy of silence and tolerance for this
behavior for years.
But again, it is a human matter, not the property of any particular
religion.
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
In the stony fastness of the mountains there is a strange market, where one
may barter the vortex of life for boundless bliss. - Milarepa
AndyS
The Catholic church would be better served if , when a priest
was accused of pedophilia, he was IMMEDIATELY sent to
a parish that has only ugly children...
Andy in Eureka, Texas
Evelyn
"AndyS" <andys...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:9edc4e0c-7e32-4762...@m1g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
That wouldn't stop them, Andy.
AndyS
>
> That wouldn't stop them, Andy.
> --
> Best Regards,
> Evelyn
>
Andy comments:
Of course it would. What Christian would want
to have sex with an UGLY child !!!!
That's just sick !!
Andy in Eurka, Texas
High Miles
>
> "AndyS" <andys...@juno.com> wrote in message
> news:9edc4e0c-7e32-4762...@m1g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
>> Andy comments:
>>
>> The Catholic church would be better served if , when a priest
>> was accused of pedophilia, he was IMMEDIATELY sent to
>> a parish that has only ugly children...
>>
>> Andy in Eureka, Texas
>
> That wouldn't stop them, Andy.
holing them - do you ?
AndyS
> > That wouldn't stop them, Andy.
>
> I don't think priests look at the little boy's faces while they're corn
> holing them - do you ?
Andy comments:
No. I don't "cornhole" little boys, whatever that is, so I would
have
no opportunity to "look at their faces".....
But I am pretty sure the priests don't have their eyes closed in
prayer.....
Andy in Eureka, Texas
Olly Mensch
admire your post regarding pedophilia also among Buddhist monks. Your
attitude is praise worthy, and I share your feelings about this in
general.
It is also correct when you wrote that the Catholic church tried to keep
this 'secret' under cover -among themselves -and, thank God, it has now
come to the surface -and the church has suffered for it - as they
should.
Olly
Olly Mensch
Never heard that expression before - from anyone - - thank God.
Olly
Chip
childhood. You did not seem to have any problem understanding what it
refers to. Corn husks or leaves were frequently used in the field as
substitutes for toilet paper.
Chip
Evelyn
"Olly Mensch" <liese...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9453-4C58...@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net...
I appreciate that, Olly.
Evelyn
"Emily" <em...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:j65h569fq88huf0ii...@4ax.com...
> heard it all my adult life.
>
> Didn't people used to put corn cobs (after they ate the corn) in
> outhouses for toilet paper? And the Sears catalog, of course.
As Chip mentioned, it was not the cobs (can you just imagine how scratchy
THAT would be?) but the husks or leaves that were used. (besides the sears
catalog!)
High Miles
>
> "Emily" <em...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:j65h569fq88huf0ii...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 15:11:50 -0700, Chip <chip....@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Olly Mensch wrote:
>>>> "Cornhole" - - another "jewel" from High Miles!!
>>>> Never heard that expression before - from anyone - - thank God.
>>>> Olly
>>>>
>>> Come on, Olly, really. It certainly was in the vernacular of my
>>> childhood. You did not seem to have any problem understanding what it
>>> refers to. Corn husks or leaves were frequently used in the field as
>>> substitutes for toilet paper.
>>>
>>> Chip
>>
>> I can't say I remember it as far back as childhood, but certainly have
>> heard it all my adult life.
>>
>> Didn't people used to put corn cobs (after they ate the corn) in
>> outhouses for toilet paper? And the Sears catalog, of course.
>
>
> As Chip mentioned, it was not the cobs (can you just imagine how
> scratchy THAT would be?) but the husks or leaves that were used.
> (besides the sears catalog!)
>
>
Chip
on your particular dispenser.
Chip
Olly Mensch
sort of guessed the implied message.
My early youth was not spent in the U.S. - perhaps that might explain
it.= = Olly
Olly Mensch
"privy" or whatever they are called., in my youth.
I need not apoologize for my early youth and upbringing; it was genteel
and lovely.
Olly
Rumpelstiltskin
>On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 15:11:50 -0700, Chip <chip....@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>I can't say I remember it as far back as childhood, but certainly have
>heard it all my adult life.
>
>Didn't people used to put corn cobs (after they ate the corn) in
>outhouses for toilet paper? And the Sears catalog, of course.
I've heard that bible salesmen were popular, because the
paper on which bibles were printed was not abrasive.
AndyS
>
> A lot of people must have gotten used to poor quality toilet paper in
> their youth because I've been repeatedly amazed at the el cheapo stuff
> people put in their bathrooms. Personally, Charmin Ultra will be
> about the last "luxury" I give up.
Andy writes:
Toilet paper ???? Hell, where I live, we use the old marijuana
stalks...... Damn, it feels good to take a crap !!!!
Andy in Eureka, Texas
Rumpelstiltskin
>I have a hard time believing that one. I just can't imagine a
>Christian using the Bible for toilet paper, and weren't they all, or
>almost all, Christians in those days?
Everybody professed to be a Christian. Maybe it's true,
but I have a hard time believing it. There were always
people like Mark Twain around, "village atheists".
Probably there were more who lacked the intellect of
Twain and therefore felt less equipped to come right out
about it.
>
>I have heard that some people learned to read using the Bible because
>it was the only book they owned. I don't know how likely that was
>either.
That I do find believable. Dirt farmers weren't always that
big on larnin'.
>
>A lot of people must have gotten used to poor quality toilet paper in
>their youth because I've been repeatedly amazed at the el cheapo stuff
>people put in their bathrooms. Personally, Charmin Ultra will be
>about the last "luxury" I give up.
Just go to the Czech Republic if you want to see poor
quality toilet paper. Maybe things have changed since
I was there, ten years ago. I remember paying something
to use the bathroom., at a McDonald's I think, and being
handed three squares of cheap one-ply toilet paper. I
looked at it in amazement, which the person who gave it
to me probably noticed and not for the first time, but I
didn't complain. If they'd handed me a fistful of straw, I'd
have regarded it as one of the things you have to deal
with quietly when abroad. I never did get used to those
doll's-house coffee cups though. I always gave those a
look that would have turned them to a cinder if my
demonic powers were better developed. I used to go to
McDonald's just to get America-sized cups of coffee,
albeit of coffee inferior to what came in the doll's-house
cups. There was no Peet's or Starbucks around where
I could get good coffee in American-sized quantities.
Speaking of which, I'd better head to the kitchen to
check on my omelet, and start up some home-made
coffee so strong that I have to keep an eye on it to
make sure it doesn't leap out of the cup and attack me.
Evelyn
"Rumpelstiltskin" <PleaseDoNot...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:6qri56tbn961n0807...@4ax.com...
My husband worked for a while in Beijing. He NEVER left his hotel room
without a good stash of TP in his pocket. No place, other than hotels
which cater to western business people provides it there.
Evelyn
> On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 06:47:07 -0700, Rumpelstiltskin
> <PleaseDoNot...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 08:09:27 -0400, Emily <em...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>>A lot of people must have gotten used to poor quality toilet paper in
>>>their youth because I've been repeatedly amazed at the el cheapo stuff
>>>people put in their bathrooms. Personally, Charmin Ultra will be
>>>about the last "luxury" I give up.
>>
>> Just go to the Czech Republic if you want to see poor
>>quality toilet paper. Maybe things have changed since
>>I was there, ten years ago. I remember paying something
>>to use the bathroom., at a McDonald's I think, and being
>>handed three squares of cheap one-ply toilet paper. I
>>looked at it in amazement, which the person who gave it
>>to me probably noticed and not for the first time, but I
>>didn't complain. If they'd handed me a fistful of straw, I'd
>>have regarded it as one of the things you have to deal
>>with quietly when abroad.
>
> realized meant "only one") dispensers. Thank goodness, it's been
> years since I saw one those. I guess they sent whatever stock of
> paper they had left to the Czech Republic.
>
> I have to admit that the Czech Republic is way far down on my list of
> places I'd ever want to visit. What attracted you to the place?
>
>> I never did get used to those
>>doll's-house coffee cups though. I always gave those a
>>look that would have turned them to a cinder if my
>>demonic powers were better developed. I used to go to
>>McDonald's just to get America-sized cups of coffee,
>>albeit of coffee inferior to what came in the doll's-house
>>cups. There was no Peet's or Starbucks around where
>>I could get good coffee in American-sized quantities.
>>Speaking of which, I'd better head to the kitchen to
>>check on my omelet, and start up some home-made
>>coffee so strong that I have to keep an eye on it to
>>make sure it doesn't leap out of the cup and attack me.
>
> the stuff to a jell or solid so you could eat it. I know you're fond
> of hazelnut in your coffee -- so is my husband, and he's found some
> beans with the hazelnut added. I could never drink any coffee he made
> because it was so strong, but I did like the smell. With these beans,
> it stinks. But he enjoys it.
I am currently enjoying a lot of constant comment green tea. It is really
delicious. I drink a few cups daily.
freeisbest
I first encountered the term and had to have it explained, to the
great discomfort of the professor, in an essay about some icky thing
written by Tennessee Williams or one of those mopey ginks. I wasn't
edified by the explanation either.
There are reasons that (some) women are right when they say that
(some) men are pigs, Olly.
Actually I checked on this topic to see why it has kept limping
along for days, figuring that topic drift must surely have taken
place, but sure enough, it's a lot of soc.ret folks mumbling about
that oh-so-daintily-named topic, "pedophilia", this time in long-ago,
far away places with strange-sounding names.
freeisbest
Heh. I grew up in the city and never had that kind of
conversation as a kid, so that's much more graphic than the
explanation I was given in a college class, decades ago... never
mind. Yours is a lot more vivid and I'm glad I've reached this age
before finding out about it.
Notice that Olly and I both grew up with sorta more or less
Germanic attitudes - Germans think dirt is filthy, and normal sex is
perfectly natural, which is pretty much the reverse of the English
take on those subjects.
freeisbest
<PleaseDoNotReplyByEm...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 18:16:14 -0400, Emily <em...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >Didn't people used to put corn cobs (after they ate the corn)
> >in outhouses for toilet paper? And the Sears catalog,
> >of course.
>
> I've heard that bible salesmen were popular, because the
> paper on which bibles were printed was not abrasive.
This has been a most informative day.
Bibles.
Golly.
freeisbest
> On Aug 4, 7:09 am, Emily <em...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > Personally, Charmin Ultra will be
> > about the last "luxury" I give up.
> Andy writes:
> Toilet paper ???? Hell, where I live, we use the old marijuana
> stalks...... Damn, it feels good to take a crap !!!!
> Andy in Eureka, Texas
Aw, now, Andy, no fair funnin' the wine-drinkin' folks.
Speaking as one who may at one time, very long ago, in an
unspecified other place, had to occasion to view and/or possibly touch
the stalks of certain unspecified plants... huh uh. No way. Unless
Texans are way tougher in every way.
High Miles
> been the Sears catalog. My mother-in-law valued the Monkey Ward
> catalog almost as much as the Bible. We believed for years that she
> single-handedly kept them in business.
>
For whatever reason, some farm folk considered Wards to represent quality.
Sort of a step up from Sears.
I even knew one really old bugger who "wouldn't but a button at Sears,
because it was owned
by Jews ."
High Miles
High Miles
them ?
Rumpelstiltskin
I think it was GBS (the old socialist) who noted that in olden
times, people thought sex was immoral and work was innocent,
but disenchantment with the selfishness and greed of capitalism,
plus Rousseau's back-to-the-jungle philosophy of life, now sex is
seen as innocent and entrepreneurial work is seen as immoral.
(Voltaire observed that Rousseau would have us walking on
all fours.)
By the way, GBS was akin to Voltaire in that he felt that
although religious belief would be ridiculous for him, it might be
necessary to keep the yahoo intellects from running around
murdering everybody. GBS was not as acidic about expressing
that as Voltaire was. GBS once complained about the cult of
miracles, and said we need to get "back" to a more respectable
version of Christianity. (I put "back" in quotes because I don't
myself agree that Christianity was ever that way.) We see the
same deference to religion in many atheists (usually the fathers),
who go along with having the mothers indoctrinate the kids into
a religion, in the belief even of those atheists that it's good for
them to believe in some rigid creed even if it's false. I can see
some logic in that, since kids are by nature wild beasts, but I
have to rebel against basing life on a lie and just "scaring"
people into behaving with some consideration for others.
Rumpelstiltskin
<snip>
>I am currently enjoying a lot of constant comment green tea. It is really
>delicious. I drink a few cups daily.
I have a couple of boxes of about a hundred teabags each
of green tea. I was into it for a while then suddenly stopped.
I do things like that a lot. I had about 8 cans of garbanzo
beans hanging around for years, until I learned that hummus
is pretty much just garbanzo beans mashed into olive oil,
and used it up that way with falafel.
Green tea might be better for me than coffee. I do notice
that my blood-pressure reading at the supermarket is lower
when I haven't had coffee. Actually, I think I will put one
of the green tea boxes on the kitchen counter right now,
to remind me to have it later or tomorrow.
Done. Though I never drink tea, I have three nearly
full 100-teabag boxes of green tea, two small boxes of
darjeeling, a small box and small can of jasmine, and
a small wooden box of passion-fruit tea. The passion
fruit tea was bought for me as a joke by a friend, because
I love passion fruit juice though I haven't had any for a
long time now. I should use that up because it's in a
neat wooden box with a sliding top that I could use to
store trinkets, if I had any trinkets.
Rumpelstiltskin
<snip>
>I have to admit that the Czech Republic is way far down on my list of
>places I'd ever want to visit. What attracted you to the place?
Oh, Prague. Prague is one of the most beautiful cities
I've ever seen, though I should note that I've never been
to Vienna or anywhere in the Mediterranean other than
Barcelona. When I was in Prague in 2000, it was
outrageously inexpensive. Regrettably, that's probably
changed now.
>> I never did get used to those
>>doll's-house coffee cups though. I always gave those a
>>look that would have turned them to a cinder if my
>>demonic powers were better developed. I used to go to
>>McDonald's just to get America-sized cups of coffee,
>>albeit of coffee inferior to what came in the doll's-house
>>cups. There was no Peet's or Starbucks around where
>>I could get good coffee in American-sized quantities.
>>Speaking of which, I'd better head to the kitchen to
>>check on my omelet, and start up some home-made
>>coffee so strong that I have to keep an eye on it to
>>make sure it doesn't leap out of the cup and attack me.
>
>You coffee drinkers amaze me. Someone should invent a way to condense
>the stuff to a jell or solid so you could eat it. I know you're fond
>of hazelnut in your coffee -- so is my husband, and he's found some
>beans with the hazelnut added. I could never drink any coffee he made
>because it was so strong, but I did like the smell. With these beans,
>it stinks. But he enjoys it.
San Francisco Bay has an excellent hazelnut coffee,
but the people at Costco who watch what I buy so
they can discontinue it have done so now. I could
get it elsewhere but at much higher price, so it's
cheaper to buy regular San Francisco Bay beans and
add tincture of hazelnut to it. I'm out of hazelnut
tincture right now though, and don't feel a massive
compulsion to rush out and buy more. I also have
peppermint tincture to add to Nestle's cocoa.
Nobody at my sister's house likes the hazelnut
beans except myself. I did buy some there, at an
outrageous price since there is no Costco near her.
I do once in a blue moon buy chocolate covered
coffee beans, and have occasionally just eaten a
few coffee beans, though they're a bit gritty. It runs
in the family: my grandmother used to say that my
grandfather's formula for making tea was one spoon
for each person and one for the pot as usual, but
also with one for 'is mouth.
The best way to have coffee ice cream is just to
make demon-strength coffee and pour it on vanilla
ice cream. Coffee is also great to use in place
of water to mix with otherwise unflavoured gelatine.
I haven't seen unflavoured gelatine for a while,
but I haven't looked.
High Miles
> On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 06:47:07 -0700, Rumpelstiltskin
> <PleaseDoNot...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>> quality toilet paper. Maybe things have changed since
>> I was there, ten years ago. I remember paying something
>> to use the bathroom., at a McDonald's I think, and being
>> handed three squares of cheap one-ply toilet paper. I
>> looked at it in amazement, which the person who gave it
>> to me probably noticed and not for the first time, but I
>> didn't complain. If they'd handed me a fistful of straw, I'd
>> have regarded it as one of the things you have to deal
>> with quietly when abroad.
>>
>
> I read somewhere before my first trip to Europe to carry with me
> little packets of moistened towelettes -- they were not
> bulky and I did not need to play Russian roulette with
> toilet paper in the rest rooms. Probably the tip came from
> Arthur Fromer -- you couldn't see Europe on $5 a day as he
> once suggested (raising the ante year after year but still
> an unrealistically low projection) but there was some
> valuable advice in his books.
>
> I did spend much less on my European trips than the
> average U.S. tourist but I achieved most of my savings
> through staying in very cheap hotels or hostels. Since
> my room was just a place to sleep and get a shower a
> day I never thought I missed anything by not paying
> lots more for a place to lay my head at night.
>
Hostels have been the way to go - ever since they were created.
Some of us would never have been able to travel without them.
Chip
>
>
> Andy writes:
>
> Toilet paper ???? Hell, where I live, we use the old marijuana
> stalks...... Damn, it feels good to take a crap !!!!
>
>
> Andy in Eureka, Texas
Oh, is that how they take in their cannabis in Eureka? Unique!
Chip
High Miles
without the
bullshit and intimidation of phony beliefs.
Religions are only good for fostering guilt, remorse, and hatred for
anyone who
doesn't believe as you do.
High Miles
I worked with a guy who insisted that everything was ass backwards in Texas.
He was born there................................................breech.
Chip
> Notice that Olly and I both grew up with sorta more or less
> Germanic attitudes - Germans think dirt is filthy, and normal sex is
> perfectly natural, which is pretty much the reverse of the English
> take on those subjects.
>
Certainly not with the German dominated Wisconsin Synod Lutherans I was
raised in. They even had completely German language services every
Sunday. My German ancestors came from small villages just west of
Frankfort. Sex was a word not spoken. Both it and dirt were filthy.
Chip
Olly Mensch
holing"-never.
Well - it's not an issue but I automatically assume that whatever comes
out of Dorothy's mouth is unspeakably vulgar.
chacun a sons.......!!!!!
Olly
freeisbest
> On 8/4/2010 1:02 PM, Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 08:21:10 -0700 (PDT), freeisbest
...in the process of herding the 'faithful' into their mental
pasture.
freeisbest
I believe you, because the U.S. has long been the world's biggest
producer of vaguely-Christian prurience. I was thinking of modern
Germany, where a flat-out raunchy sense of humor is taken for granted
(take a look at their Mardi Gras floats), and so is the process by
which the next generation is produced.
Olly Mensch
"different' environment - -for better or for worse!! Thus, am not
familiar with some of the "crude' references.
I never notice that you use any such language -. It does show - to me
- a lack of good taste- to say the very least.
Olly
Olly Mensch
him down for his good taste!!!
Olly
AndyS
Andy comments:
No, only the stalks are used in our outhouses. The rest we ship
to California and New Jersey.
We can only make and consume just so many brownies, after
all.
On the other hand, the term "crazy as an outhouse rat" originated
in Eureka, Texas ...
Andy in Eureka, Texas
Eureka, where if a young girl has "juicy" written on the back of
her shorts...... she probly has "itchy" written on the front.....
High Miles
An insult to groceries and air.
What good do you do for anyone....................................alive ?
High Miles
>
The crone is slippin'
She left out a few of her usual offenses.
High Miles
Evelyn
"Rumpelstiltskin" <PleaseDoNot...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:ac8j56dhj6ttcvbq4...@4ax.com...
We are serious tea drinkers around here. I keep about a dozen varieties
of tea, and of course their counterparts in decaf, in case I want a cup in
the evening. I keep Constant Comment orange spice in both black and green
tea, and Stash brand Chai in decaf and regular. With a bit of splenda and
some milk Chai is like a dessert to me. Then I have ordinary tetley tea,
and the real chinese green tea for when I am feeling like a tea purist.
Hubby loves his Lady Gray tea, which is like Earl gray tea except it has a
touch of citrus flavor. We also have some herbal teas which we
occasionally get in the mood for, especially at bedtime, since they are
mildly relaxing. Trader Joes bedtime tea is one we just bought and it is
pretty good.
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
In the stony fastness of the mountains there is a strange market, where one
may barter the vortex of life for boundless bliss. - Milarepa
Evelyn
"Chip" <chip....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:i3ccg0$vef$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
My neighbors are German, and they are not like that at all. They love a
good joke and have apparently enjoyed an active sex life for all their 56
years of marriage...... even now that they are getting on in years (unless
the wife is lying to me, which I highly doubt). I have heard of such
healthy relationships, and it is nice to see that they do exist in reality.
Chip
>> Certainly not with the German dominated Wisconsin Synod Lutherans I
>> was raised in. They even had completely German language services
>> every Sunday. My German ancestors came from small villages just west
>> of Frankfort. Sex was a word not spoken. Both it and dirt were filthy.
>>
>> Chip
>
>
> My neighbors are German, and they are not like that at all. They love
> a good joke and have apparently enjoyed an active sex life for all their
> 56 years of marriage...
>
Germany like many countries has regions and the regional attitudes can
be quite strikingly different. The Northern/Prussian/Lutheran region is
often portrayed at very up-tight and hidebound. They prefer to think of
themselves as urban and polite. The Southern/Bavarian/Catholic region
is often portrayed as loose morally, carefree, and fun loving. They
prefer to think of themselves as loose morally, carefree, and fun loving.
Chip
High Miles
I'll have to run this past my German pals.
They're all immoral, carefree and fun loving.
Evelyn
My neighbors are wonderful people. Almost like family.
Rumpelstiltskin
>On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 11:02:13 -0700, Rumpelstiltskin
<snip>
>I'm having a hard time imagining chocolate covered coffee beans -- or
>rather what kind of mess you'd have if you put them in a coffee
>machine or French press. How are they supposed to be used?
Oh, sorry, I was really unclear! Chocolate covered coffee
beans are like candy, you're supposed to eat them directly,
not make coffee with them! They are gritty once you get
past the chocolate, but that's a small thing to put up with if
one's a coffee addict, doubtless much less inconvenient
and dangerous than sticking oneself with needles all the
time if one's a heroin addict.
>
>> It runs
>>in the family: my grandmother used to say that my
>>grandfather's formula for making tea was one spoon
>>for each person and one for the pot as usual, but
>>also with one for 'is mouth.
>>
>> The best way to have coffee ice cream is just to
>>make demon-strength coffee and pour it on vanilla
>>ice cream. Coffee is also great to use in place
>>of water to mix with otherwise unflavoured gelatine.
>>I haven't seen unflavoured gelatine for a while,
>>but I haven't looked.
>
>If you have an ice cream machine, I have a good and simple recipe for
>coffee ice cream. Nothing in it has to be cooked first.
Gosh no, I don't have an ice cream machine. I'd
doubtless weigh 800 pounds if I did!
My substitute for will power (of which I have none)
is simply not to have things on hand that I don't think
I should be eating much of.
>I like coffee yogurt, too. I like Dannon's a little better than
>Yoplait's, but it's all good.
I had a free sample of yogurt at Costco today, but I
rarely buy it because there's not enough bang in it for
me to justify the carbs. I passed up on gelato at
Costco today too, because I don't know what the
carb content is, but it's likely astronomical.
Rumpelstiltskin
Yes, my sister's kids are doing fine, but we've been
indoctrinated for 2000 years by religion and it's hard
for most people to be sure, just like myself with statin
drugs. I don't trust them, but I'm nervous about not
taking them if the medical profession advises it, even
about things of which I suspect that the medical
profession quite likely has its head up its ass. (With
apologies to Olly who joyfully wallows in cosmic bigotry
but is offended by small crudities of language and
even with innocent colloquialisms such as "gotcha".)
Rumpelstiltskin
wrote:
I stopped in at Costco today because I was just aimlessly
wandering about and I felt like a slice of Pizza. I headed to
Costco which has pizza as good as anywhere else for not
much more than half the price of elsewhere. While at
Costco, I went around for free samples, which as it
happened included falafel today, so I had some. There was
something called "tzatziki" on it, which I'm going to get
probably tomorrow when I stock up on groceries, including
falafel. It was quite good on the falafel. I had a deli falafel
sandwich a couple of days ago, and quite likely tzatziki was
one of the ingredients they put into the dressing. The taste
is familiar and I have an uncertain recollection that I've
heard the name before, too.
I also checked out computers, since I am going to have
to get a new one someday soon, by the end of the year at
least. I looked at Best Buy and at Costco. They both had
one machine, the Gateway FX6840-03E at Best Buy and
FX6840-01E at Costco. The very limited specs available
were the same, and they're likely exactly the same machine,
but at Costco it was $100 cheaper. BestBuy also had an
ASUS computer. I am interested in ASUS' sound card, so
if it comes automatically with their computer, that is a
selling point for me.
Chip
18th. It is still under warranty. Gateway acknowledges that, but I have
to pay shipping back to Texas and they will pay return shipping IF they
fix it, but only after they check out everything. If not, I pay both
ways. I have tried re-imaging with disks they sent me, the store's tech
(beyond their return date) checked the hard disk. The only thing left
is the memory sticks. It gives me almost random errors and chokes
during different parts of the re-imaging process.
Watch out for Gateway's return policy. They will download various
diagnostics to you, require you to run them and if they find a hardware
error require you to remove it and ship them only the hardware, not the
box. Of course, they don't tell me what will happen if I break
something getting the hardware out or back in.
Chip
High Miles
Rumpelstiltskin
wrote:
>In article <pltj5612kdks0j693...@4ax.com>,
>Rumpelstiltskin <PleaseDoNot...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>:
>...
>:
>: I stopped in at Costco today because I was just aimlessly
>:wandering about and I felt like a slice of Pizza. I headed to
>:Costco which has pizza as good as anywhere else for not
>:much more than half the price of elsewhere. While at
>:Costco, I went around for free samples, which as it
>:happened included falafel today, so I had some. There was
>:something called "tzatziki" on it, which I'm going to get
>:probably tomorrow when I stock up on groceries, including
>:falafel. It was quite good on the falafel. I had a deli falafel
>:sandwich a couple of days ago, and quite likely tzatziki was
>:one of the ingredients they put into the dressing. The taste
>:is familiar and I have an uncertain recollection that I've
>:heard the name before, too.
>
>a common condiment which you can't buy. you make it.
Quite likely you can't buy it most places, but when I asked
the freesamplers about it, they showed me containers of it
right next to the falafel. The containers are fairly large (a
half-pint?), so I guess I'll freeze at least half of it so it doesn't
spoil before I can get through it. I hope it can survive being
frozen. My heavy cream survived being frozen while I was
off in Massachusetts for a week, though it was pretty
unsteady on its feet for the first couple of days after I took it
out of the freezer and put it in the regular refrigerator
compartment, until it thoroughly defrosted.
I've started buying heavy cream instead of half-and-half,
for coffee and for the occasional bowl of grape nuts. At
Costco, a half-gallon of half-and-half costs about $2.50,
and a half gallon of heavy cream costs about $5. It lasts a
long time even if I use it profligately, which I do because
it will go bad if it hangs around more than a couple of
weeks even in the refrigerator. I also get a pound of
organic spinach for about $3.50, and I have to hurry up
with that before it gets slimy. I never manage to get through
it all before it gets slimy. Three pounds of non-organic
only costs $4. I don't care about organic, but I do hate to
waste food. The time I bought a three-pound bag, I had to
throw it away when I'd only eaten about half of it. So I buy
the one-pound plastic box of organic just so as not to feel
guilty about wasting food. I like the plastic box better than
the bag, which is another minor point in favour of the
organic. I've put some tools in a couple of those boxes,
but I don't need any more boxes for tools now.
>
>the greeks got it from the turks, who taught most of the mediteranean
>how to cook, it is called djadjik which the greeks can't pronounce
>properly. variants occur farther east as well. google to find a recipe.
>you start with yogurt.
freeisbest
:^) That's what I've heard and saw on a couple of brief visits to
Germany/Austria. The people we met had definitely lightened up from
the former standard of stiff and sober dignity I used to hear about.
Of course I'm also told that a big percentage the younger
generation in Germany, the same as everywhere else, were promiscuous,
etc. for a couple of decades, but very prudent sexual behavior has
come back because of STD's.
So, Mankind indulges in risky behaviors and Nature lets us know
whether that's a good idea or not by killing off a bunch of us.
Chip
All I can say is that between 1958-60 there was quite a bit of risky
behavior around in Germany and I enjoyed every minute of it. Coming
back to the uptight States (this was before the Sexual Revolution) was
quite a shock.
Chip
Olly Mensch
wrote-about ME:
"To me, your useless existence is unspeakably vulgar. An insult to
groceries and air.What good do you do for anyone...........alive?
Dorothy
And she is friends with Rita - Evelyn and who knows who else.
Why is this tolerated???
And I am not supposed to react to this filth??
What can be done??
The obvious answer would be for me to simply leave- and this time - for
good. Why expose myself to such a gutter snipe. Yet - why do her that
favor?! I have never - in all my life - run into anyone so vulgar and
ugly as this creature. Yet - I enjoy some of the posts, some of the
discussion going on here - and my occasional voice, also, it fills part
of my days.
It is entirely possible that her wish for my demise (so often expressed
by her) might come true all too soon. I am currently dealing with an
internal growth, which has to be looked at by ultra sound, and the
possibility of it being cancerous is 50/50. I am dealing with enormous
stress - on a personal level - and enjoy posting and reading others'
contributions about what is going on in our world; in our country. I do
not need, however, the abysmal confrontation of this creature - and,
repeating what she wrote - this time - is making sure that everyone
reads what she wrote to me and about me. Why does this group tolerate
this?? Why??
Olly
Olly Mensch
any other pejorative language about any other group, race, or religious
sects,etc.etc. never - and you know that to be so.
I am not so prissy as to not - on occasion - like you - say to
myself:"oh shit!!" especially lately, since I am fighting a great deal
of uncertainty about my physical future. I will spare you the details.
BUT - the way Dorothy adresses me, and writes about me, is inexcusable,
and hard to understand how anyone can sink so low - she frequently
speaks of her wish for my death - - please read her latest post,
adressing me. Beyond belief. Just because she shares - I guess - some
of your own (and Evelyn's) social ideas, does not, by itself,make her a
fine human being. All you need to do is to read her posts when she
adresses her self either to me directly or writes about me. Her death
wish for me is frequently and openly expressed - it is beyond belief.
Olly
Olly Mensch
Please do tell. Thanks - - Olly
High Miles
> What can be done??
> The obvious answer would be for me to simply leave- and this time - for
> good. Why expose myself to such a gutter snipe. Yet - why do her that
> favor?! I have never - in all my life - run into anyone so vulgar and
> ugly as this creature. Yet - I enjoy some of the posts, some of the
> discussion going on here - and my occasional voice, also, it fills part
> of my days.
> It is entirely possible that her wish for my demise (so often expressed
> by her) might come true all too soon. I am currently dealing with an
> internal growth, which has to be looked at by ultra sound, and the
> possibility of it being cancerous is 50/50. I am dealing with enormous
> stress - on a personal level - and enjoy posting and reading others'
> contributions about what is going on in our world; in our country. I do
> not need, however, the abysmal confrontation of this creature - and,
> repeating what she wrote - this time - is making sure that everyone
> reads what she wrote to me and about me. Why does this group tolerate
> this?? Why??
> Olly
>
Because they don't care ?
Because...................................they agree with me ?
You are reading more into my words than actually exists.
I keep hoping you'll take the advice so many have given you over the
years, and STOP
reading my posts.
Clearly, with worrisome health problems hanging over your head, you
certainly don't need
to read the things I say to or about you.
This is an open forum, and all are free to say whatever they like to
whom ever they wish.
Your freedom is to avoid anything I post.
It would be one less irritation in your life.
El Castor
wrote:
>I just want to make sure that no one - but no one - misses what Dorothy
Olly, Dorothy is a toxic personality who lives to cause other people
stress and unhappiness. Since you are unable to "plonk" her, the next
best thing is to not read her posts. She wants you to read them, and
she wants you to get upset. You are playing into her hands. Don't give
her the satisfaction. I know that may not be what you want to hear,
but other than getting a more conventional computer and using a news
reader with a good filter, there is nothing else you can do. ISPs will
not take any action against an evil individual like that. Personally,
I plonked her so long ago that I haven't read one of her posts in
years.
I'm very sorry to hear about your health issue. I had something like
that once, and it turned out to be nothing. I hope you are equally
fortunate. My fingers are crossed.
Jeff
Evelyn
"Olly Mensch" <liese...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:25797-4C5...@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net...
Olly, you refer to her constantly, and then read her posts replying.......
well, what can I say? Spare yourself the upset of reading what you know
you aren't going to like, and please stop saying provocative things directed
at her, that prompt her to reply to you so negatively.
Chip
> I just want to make sure that no one - but no one - misses what Dorothy
> wrote-about ME:
> "To me, your useless existence is unspeakably vulgar. An insult to
> groceries and air.What good do you do for anyone...........alive?
> Dorothy
>
> And she is friends with Rita - Evelyn and who knows who else.
> Why is this tolerated???
> And I am not supposed to react to this filth??
> What can be done??
> The obvious answer would be for me to simply leave- and this time - for
> good. Why expose myself to such a gutter snipe. Yet - why do her that
> favor?! I have never - in all my life - run into anyone so vulgar and
> ugly as this creature.
>
I have a favorite story:
I was a lad of about 12 helping my Dad on a construction site. Two
grown men got into an argument about parking spaces and it escalated
into one guy grabbing a long handled shovel and the other a longish 2X4.
They started to swing at each other. I got really scared that somebody
was going to get seriously hurt. And thinking how could grown men act
so stupid. About that time, my oldest brother, a robust 20 yo, waded
between them and started shouting that they were both acting like
children and should stop it. It worked. They were embarrassed and
straightened out the parking situation amicably.
I tucked that away as a good life lesson and actually got to use it a
couple of times myself to break up fights.
While I realize that in hyperspace no shovel or 2X4 can reach, I am
going to use it again. Never thought I would use it on ladies tho.
STOP IT! YOU ARE BOTH ACTING LIKE CHILDREN!!! You are embarrassing us
and should be embarrassing yourselves.
Chip
th...@haha.net
bubble-gum popping 13 year-old snot with a low IQ.
I seldom, if ever, read anything she posts. She has been totally and
completely manufactured by her Handlers; just like so many other
people in this country. I live in a Senior Residential place, and I
see them here all the time. And the first of the beatnick broads are
now moving in, as they reach 62: Want to see something so disgusting
that it's not even funny? Gray-haired; either too heavy or too
skinny, old broads with TATOOS, yet!!!!
And there are those like her.....1950's bubblegum popping,
bitty-stepping with jingles on their shoes, waiting to see what New is
coming out of Hollywood and Green-Witch Village......
On Fri, 6 Aug 2010 06:33:28 -0400, "Evelyn" <evely...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Chip
> On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 18:43:25 -0700, Chip <chip....@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> All I can say is that between 1958-60 there was quite a bit of risky
>> behavior around in Germany and I enjoyed every minute of it. Coming
>> back to the uptight States (this was before the Sexual Revolution) was
>> quite a shock.
>
Whoa, neither did we in the US. "The birth control pill was introduced
to the public in the early 1960s." I remember going with my girlfriend
to the doc in '65 to get some for her. I think she told him she was
irregular. Of course we were in a University town and he understood the
nod, nod, wink, wink.
Chip
The Post Quartermaster
"Emily" <em...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ktsn569ndu47ojeu0...@4ax.com...
>>Dorothy
>>wrote-about ME:
>
>
>>"To me, your useless existence is unspeakably vulgar. An insult to
>>groceries and air.What good do you do for anyone...........alive?
>>Dorothy
>>
>>And she is friends with Rita - Evelyn and who knows who else.
>>Why is this tolerated???
>
> wanted
> to.
>
>>And I am not supposed to react to this filth??
>
> has
> only made it worse. Why don't you try something else, like getting
> a
> voodoo doll and sticking pins in it, or pretending your pillow is
> Dorothy and cussing it out. Reacting by reminding the group of what
> she's said frankly reminds me of third graders on a playground.
>
>>What can be done??
>
> Nothing, by anyone but you. You could ignore it.
>
>>The obvious answer would be for me to simply leave- and this time -
>>for
>>good. Why expose myself to such a gutter snipe. Yet - why do her
>>that
>>favor?! I have never - in all my life - run into anyone so vulgar
>>and
>>ugly as this creature. Yet - I enjoy some of the posts, some of the
>>discussion going on here - and my occasional voice, also, it fills
>>part
>>of my days.
>
> has
> told you the same thing. Don't read her posts. Read what you enjoy
> and forget the rest. It makes no sense to leave the group when you
> enjoy some of it. That's simply cutting off you nose to spite your
> face. I don't think Dorothy would be either happy or sad if you
> left.
>
> I don't think there's any other reasonable way for you to handle
> this.
> You must realize that you're the only one who suffers. You let her
> get under your skin, but unless I'm seriously mistaken, your
> reactions
> don't bother her at all.
>
>>It is entirely possible that her wish for my demise (so often
>>expressed
>>by her) might come true all too soon. I am currently dealing with
>>an
>>internal growth, which has to be looked at by ultra sound, and the
>>possibility of it being cancerous is 50/50. I am dealing with
>>enormous
>>stress - on a personal level - and enjoy posting and reading others'
>>contributions about what is going on in our world; in our country. I
>>do
>>not need, however, the abysmal confrontation of this creature - and,
>>repeating what she wrote - this time - is making sure that everyone
>>reads what she wrote to me and about me. Why does this group
>>tolerate
>>this?? Why??
>
> wanted
> to.
>
> I'm sorry to hear you have a medical issue. I know the uncertainty
> just makes it worse. I hope it turns out to be benign.
>
I think Olly is really Bret Favre in disguise. "I'm leaving for good"
"I'm retiring for sure this time" Hmmmm.
Evelyn
"Olly Mensch" <liese...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:25797-4C5...@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net...
You have been told this before, Olly. If there is someone whose posts you
do not enjoy, simply do not read them! If you read them, you read at your
own risk!
Nobody rules usenet. Nobody can edit anyone else. It is a free for all,
and believe it or not, this group is among the more gentle groups on usenet.
Evelyn
"Chip" <chip....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:i3gqah$q72$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
I made no bones about it when I first asked the doc and got them. I had
two kids with a man who was an idiot then and he still is one, now in his
seventies. I knew that I had better not have any more since my days with
him were numbered. Thank goodness.
Chip
>> girlfriend to the doc in '65 to get some for her. I think she told
>> him she was irregular. Of course we were in a University town and he
>> understood the nod, nod, wink, wink.
>>
>> Chip
>
> I made no bones about it when I first asked the doc and got them.
>
were in a -what the hell did they call it in the early '60s? It wasn't
a relationship, then. I think we were living in sin.
Chip
High Miles
Aw Chip - it's impossible to embarrass me - and I'm NO lady. I
consider that term an insult.
I'm old and have had a lot of life experience, both pleasant and
unpleasant.
When I truly dislike someone, it's guaranteed that I'll let them know.
If they don't avoid me, it will often come to blows.
I find this method of resolution satisfying and effective.
The childish response of name calling is also fun for me.
So, being totally selfish, I care nothing for the feelings of someone I
heartily dislike.
Decades of working with and around men have made me comfortable with
using.........................unflattering terms
to address or describe someone I feel is beneath contempt.
The good manners my mother taught me were long ago left in the dust as
ineffective.
Olly Mensch
important bill:"It is a big, fuckiing deal."
Rita commented that it was one of Biden's better moments,etc.
He has few "better" moments- and this was an incredibly mistaken faux
pas - but how would he know?!!
Olly
Evelyn
Yes, I was married. That marriage definitely was a sin!
Evelyn
"High Miles" <2blue...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:WJU6o.2834$EF1....@newsfe14.iad...
Don't believe her Chip. She's a paper tiger! Olly just has a way of
ticking her off.
Olly Mensch
As to your advice about Dorothy's "toxic" personality (a good word for
her) I wish I could "plonk' her, but can't, BUT -if I hang around here,
I will -from now on - NOT read her posts. By reading what she writes,
she succeeds in her purpose to upset and insult me - so I will stop. You
are right.
Thanks again - - Olly
Evelyn
Olly that is a step in the right direction. But even more importantly,
STOP referring to her. It just perpetuates the feud.
normak
Not to worry, Olly. In the end, when our final time has come, we all get to
the rest we deserve.
Her cruel "humor" (her probable definition) will fall flat and disappear.
It would be best not to read it, as you well know. For heaven's sake don't
reply and give her any degree of satisfaction.
You know your life better than anyone, so let her simmer in her own broth.
She is to be pitied...
(BTW, I have her killfiled, so a reply to me, from her nest of non-goodness,
would be a waste of time.)
NormaK
Jay Hanig
> You have been told this before, Olly. If there is someone whose posts
> you do not enjoy, simply do not read them! If you read them, you read at
> your own risk!
>
> Nobody rules usenet. Nobody can edit anyone else. It is a free for all,
> and believe it or not, this group is among the more gentle groups on
> usenet.
When somebody annoys me excessively, I killfile them. I don't tell them
they're killfiled. I just do it. Suddenly I no longer react to their
posts because they no longer exist in my world. Life is too short to
have to suffer assholes.
Jay
High Miles
High Miles
>
> "Olly Mensch" <liese...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:11970-4C5...@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net...
>> Jeff - thanks so much for your good wishes for me - healthwise.
>> As to your advice about Dorothy's "toxic" personality (a good word for
>> her) I wish I could "plonk' her, but can't, BUT -if I hang around here,
>> I will -from now on - NOT read her posts. By reading what she writes,
>> she succeeds in her purpose to upset and insult me - so I will stop. You
>> are right.
>> Thanks again - - Olly
>
>
> Olly that is a step in the right direction. But even more
> importantly, STOP referring to her. It just perpetuates the feud.
>
years now.
She can't seem to resist, even tho she knows it will be upsetting.
I'll never understand why she thinks she has to quote me all the time.
Isn't once enough for something nasty to go down ?
Evelyn
I think she secretly likes the attention she gets when she complains.