Re: Truth.
Pastor Steve Winter
>> Yes Bill, lets talk about truth here.
>
>Be nice if he could.
>
>Raymond
No, reprobate Knapp, I guess you just couldn't help lying again,
eh?
You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
Knapp.
Raymond Knapp is a reprobate spiritual slut trying to put himself
over as "Oneness missionary".
Some of his email harassment and behaviour is documented at
http://www.impsmail.org/knapp.html in case anyone is inclined
to take him seriously.
Can you say "communist sympathizer", Mr. Knapp? Of COURSE the
communists leave you alone, Mr. Knapp, you are their bubba.
Isn't it amazing the level of filth that comprise the list
of the public supporters of the reprobate Mark Bassett?
Pastor sTeve Winter
--
"Winters, you are a blabbering heretic. In a truly godly
nation you would be executed for publicly promoting your
heretical doctrines." - Tom Albrecht trinitarian deceiver 2000
"Copyright infringement my ***" (obscenity deleted) - Brian Boggs cultist 2000
"lying to mr. winter is just a defense" - Mark Bassett UPC Preacher 1999
"It isnt a salvation issue..." - Mark Bassett 1999 regarding Biblical holiness
"Sorry old man. I never lie, if I, can help it." - Raymond W Knapp 2000
"...God is Triune in nature..." - Raymond W Knapp 2000
",I did get saved in a Southern Baptist Church," - Raymond Knapp 2000
"..you will not fine Mother Teresa in Hell." - Raymond Knapp 2002
"Paul is not God, and never was God." - Knapp showing his contempt for the Word of God 2003
http://www.impsmail.org documents even criminal activity
http://www.pentecostal.biz Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >> Yes Bill, lets talk about truth here.
> >
> >Be nice if he could.
> >
> >Raymond
>
> No, reprobate Knapp, I guess you just couldn't help lying again,
> eh?
Sorry there is no reprobate Knapp here, only a servant of the Lord
Jesus Christ and one that shows it is you that is lying, as you just
proved that again with such a statement. I have no problem with lying
as I do not do such, that is your work, it would seem.
>
> You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
> Knapp.
Your on record for believing in three in God and preach such, I am on
record as to saying YOU are a Triunity of Body, Soul and Spirit, as
all humans are. You play with that all you like, but the way you post
it, your the reprobate not I.
Thank you again for posting so I could set you right on your false and
reprobate teachings. May God have mercy on your sinful soul.
Raymond
Steve Winter
>> You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
>> Knapp.
>
>Your on record for believing in three in God and preach such, I am on
>record as to saying YOU are a Triunity of Body, Soul and Spirit, as
>all humans are. You play with that all you like, but the way you post
>it, your the reprobate not I.
You are a liar, reprobate Knapp. Thank you for confirming for us
that you are a liar. Even my vilest opponents out here (other
than your reprobate self) don't try to accuse me of teaching
"three in God"!
You are simply a liar and a fake, reprobate Knapp.
Your "triunity garbage" is foolishness that the trinity filth
try to use to deceive souls into hell.
No, reprobate Knapp, I guess you just couldn't help lying again,
eh?
You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
Knapp.
Raymond Knapp is a reprobate spiritual slut trying to put himself
over as "Oneness missionary".
Some of his email harassment and behaviour is documented at
http://www.impsmail.org/knapp.html in case anyone is inclined
to take him seriously.
Can you say "communist sympathizer", Mr. Knapp? Of COURSE the
communists leave you alone, Mr. Knapp, you are their bubba.
Pastor sTeve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
Spazzmodicus
>Pastor Steve Winter <steve....@prime.org> wrote in message
>> No, reprobate Knapp, I guess you just couldn't help lying again, eh?
>
> Sorry there is no reprobate Knapp here, only a servant of the Lord
> Jesus Christ and one that shows it is you that is lying, as you just
> proved that again with such a statement. I have no problem with lying
> as I do not do such, that is your work, it would seem.
I agree with everything you said Raymond except "it would seem".
Of course, it was your statement and you can say it the way you want but
Mr. Winter has been proven to be a liar far beyond "seeming".
>> You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
>> Knapp.
>
> Your on record for believing in three in God and preach such, I am on
> record as to saying YOU are a Triunity of Body, Soul and Spirit, as
> all humans are. You play with that all you like, but the way you post
> it, your the reprobate not I.
We indeed do have a threefold nature just as God too has a threefold nature.
A threefold creature can only be representative in likness and image, of a threefold
creator. After all, God said: "....Let us make man in our image, after our
likeness..." (Genesis 1:26)
Why would a singular God refer to himself as "us" and "our". It's because God is
indeed a threefold being with a masculine and feminine side, which is why the Word
says: "male and female created he them". Those that study Hebrew will tell you about
masculine and feminine terms in the archaic texts, written into it by inspiration of
God mind you.
Genesis 1:27
"...So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and
female created he them...."
But just as God is a threefold being, he created us in his image: Spirit, soul and
body. Concerning the composition of God? It's this:
Spirit, Word, Light. Spirit=spirit, Word=soul, Light=body.
There's more to it than that as well but God does indeed exist as Father, Son and Holy
Ghost. Three distinct beings joined together as one.
Now look at the scriptures with the above mentioned correlations and see if they
"jive". Any scripture.
Example:
1 John 1:5
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God
is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
Christ is also "God":
1 Peter 1:19
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without
spot:
See the correlation? "Darkness" in 1 John 1:5 is equivalent to "spot" in
1 Peter 1:19.
Lamb without blemish refers obviously to Christ but more specifically to the "body of
Christ"...but hey, wait! The body of Christ is also the "believers of Christ"...so if
all this is true then it should "jive" with that connotation too....but wait!? Christ
is perfect and the believers composing the body of Christ aren't quite perfect...which
would equate to a 'blemished' body of Christ.....so how is this supposded to work out?
Ephesians 4:12-13
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of
the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
UNTO A PERFECT MAN, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
I could go on but I've blabbed enough already.
So many people accept as the Word of God, the plain dead letters of text.
They read with mostly with only literal terms in mind and therefore get left out of
the devine revelations of the Word of God. Consequently they also get left out of the
true power of the Word of God....the power in the Word that can bring the
*transforming* and the *renewing* changes to our fallen state:
Romans 12:2
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your
mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
And the key to "transformed by the renewing of your mind" is given in that very verse
above: "be not conformed to this world". It requires complete separation unto God. In
other words, if you've got a TV sitting in your living room, you're not meeting the
terms of "be not conformed to this world". With separation unto God comes the "power"
of God. The word of God is a near meaningless document to those whom refuse separation
and embrace the 'world'. Look at this way: Samsons' long hair? It represented the
"separation unto God" of a believer. Once he loast his hair i.e. "separation"...he
lost his God-given power. He flirted with the seductiveness of the World and it got
the best of him. It will everytime too.
But back to what we were talking about....
Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psalms 82 is negative account of the children of Israel, in which they're referred to
as "children of the most high" by reason God having chose them for Himself and
presented Himself to them. The title of 'gods' referred to the "judges", people chosen
by Moses to settle minor disputes in order to lessen the "judicial load" on himself
which was quite extensive, while they were yet in the wilderness:
Exodus 18:22
22 And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great
matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall
it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee.
David, when writing Psalms 82 was referring to the Children of Israel when they were
in the wilderness. The Children of Israel, Gods' chosen people rejected the Word of
God which is evidenced by their constant murmuring and complaining against anything
and everything including the leadership of Moses, whom they all knew was instructed by
the "word" of God. They also complained about having to eat the manna, which was also
a picture of Christ, the bread of heaven.
However, Psalsms 82 happens to be a prophesy as well concerning the days when God
would present Himself to His people in the form of His Son.
Jesus was referring to Psalms 82 when he said the following:
John 10:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be
broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou
blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Just as the the Children of Israel rejected the Word of God in the days of the
wilderness and thereafter, Psalms 82 prophesied how they would also reject the Word of
God when it would be presented to them in the form of Gods'Son who would come later in
the flesh, descended from David himself.
As Christ came unto "His own", whom were referred to as "gods" and His own rejected
Him, cannont even more we whom have accepted him be referred to as 'gods' in a sense?
And in that sense, Just as God created man in his own likeness , we in our fallen
state can once again through Christ regain our original state as the "likeness of
God", until that day arrive when those whom compose the "Bride of Christ" will be
'one' with God.
In conclusion, just as God is, with no darkness in Him, so were we in the garden. When
man sinned in the garden, his holy 'body of light' became a carnal 'body of flesh'.
And what does flesh equate to in the Word? Splotchiness of sin, and darkness.
> Thank you again for posting so I could set you right on your false and
> reprobate teachings. May God have mercy on your sinful soul.
>
> Raymond
You know what I think? I think the real Christians in this group should unite in
prayer for Mr. Winter. I've slapped Him around just as much as anybody and will claim
the formost spot as "guilty". But we are commanded to forgive and pray for our
enemies. We are commanded to love 'all'. Somebody that has 'demon'strated a rejection
of the Word as he has, is without a doubt my enemy. I feel we in this group are not
practicing and applying the "big picture", which in essence is 'love'. I think the
sincere Christians in this group should unite together from the division we currently
stand in and work together, develop a standard for responses and conduct amongst
ourselves.
It already exists. It's called 'the Bible' but something seems missing. Unity for one
thing. I think if those that are sincere bind together in faith, we'll not only see a
change in Mr. Winter but also in the lives of many whom will come into this group in
the rapidly darkening days ahead, in search of answers. In search of God. Who is to
say that God hasn't placed Mr. Winter here for a visible demonstration of Gods' power,
and of what He may intend to do for many whom come into this group. I prayed for Steve
Winter and David Vestal last night. And I had tears running down my face. I don't say
that to say "look at me". I say it to acknowledge that this is the direction God is
dragging me into, against the desires of my warrior-nature. It's a time for mass
conciliation in this group. The stakes are high(forgive the term) and I feel we have
less time left than we all think.
In conclusion, who cares what our personal beliefs are regarding doctrine.
There is plenty to talk about where all should see eye to eye. The Blood, Love,
Spirit, ect. It's time for all to "talk the talk" and no longer "quack the flak"....
and that applies to nobody more than myself.
Shall we begin a list of standards?
Example:
1. When expressing a 'particular' from ones beliefs, it perhaps should be prefaced
with terms such as: I believe, I think, the xxx's believe,ect. Being that the Word is
only of value in conjunction with 'faith', one cannot expect another to accept a
perspective that opposes his/their beliefs, and therefore should allow those of
opposing views the peaceable objection they are entitled to according to their own
faith, thus maintaining peace and hopefully, the eventual solidifiaction of true unity
in God.
2. Respect for others is a top priority. In the face of adversity, the ministry of
Christ is best seen when the other cheek is turned, offering a repsonse of forgivness,
love and peace in exchange for attacks of persecution, mockery, ect. Respect for
ones' fellows as well as for those of opposition.
I think if a core group begins abiding by a few guiding principles such a these, the
neucleus of that group will grow considerably. The enemy WILL prevail in this group if
we don't unite together and practice what we preach. But, when those of us who are
serious about it gather together in the name of Jesus, the Lord, or whomever it is
according to your faith, then God will be the victor.
If a group FAQ doesn't exist, it may be a good idea to have one but instead of
questions and answers, it could be "Guiding Principles"...or some such.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spazzmodicus
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a persistent one"
Raymond
I read all your post and thank you for taking the time to reply. I
will pray for these folks as they really are lost without the love of
Jesus in them.
Raymond
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >> You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
> >> Knapp.
> >
> >Your on record for believing in three in God and preach such, I am on
> >record as to saying YOU are a Triunity of Body, Soul and Spirit, as
> >all humans are. You play with that all you like, but the way you post
> >it, your the reprobate not I.
>
> You are a liar, reprobate Knapp. Thank you for confirming for us
> that you are a liar. Even my vilest opponents out here (other
> than your reprobate self) don't try to accuse me of teaching
> "three in God"!
Nope I did not lie, you again did in this post, you are the reprobate,
as can be seen in the writing in its whole, and you are the triunity
of body, soul and Spirit as all humans are. Call that vilest and such
silly names, only apply them to yourself, as you are such. I never
said you ever preached "Three in God" ignorance seems to be your
problem, I said YOU are a Three in ONE, Body Soul and Spirit and
mankind is made in the image of God Himself, the ONE GOD. As was my
original statement, that you cut out, and reworded to make you false
teachings and lies about what was written. No you are not a Three in
God, Your not even IN GOD. So play your silly word games, the Angels
in Heaven do keep good records, and be ready to hear the ONE GOD,
JESUS say I never knew you, depart from me....... I do not accuse
you of anything, you do that yourself and twist replies to read what
they did not say. Anyone reading this can see the evil behind you and
your hate for them that do love the Lord Jesus as both GOD and
Saviour. All the water in baptism, did you no good, you're as evil
and foul now as you must have been before you took the name of Jesus
in Baptism, if you ever did so. Did the UPC baptize you, or did you
do that all by yourself?
>
> You are simply a liar and a fake, reprobate Knapp.
Never! Your statement is full of lies, making you the only reprobate
in this post.
>
> Pastor sTeve Winter
May my Lord and Savour Jesus the Christ, God in man, the LORD, reach
out to your evil heart and bring the blood of His cross and forgive
you of your many sins, so your can be free to really know HIM, as LORD
and God.
In Jesus,
Pastor Raymond Knapp
www.pioneers-for-Jesus.org
Steve Winter
devilish Raymond Knapp:
>
>We indeed do have a threefold nature just as God too has a threefold nature.
>A threefold creature can only be representative in likness and image, of a threefold
>creator. After all, God said: "....Let us make man in our image, after our
>likeness..." (Genesis 1:26)
Ah yes, the admitted polytheists can be quite comfortable and in
agreement with the devilish reprobate Raymond Knapp. They feel
a kindred spirit with him.
Pastor Winter
Raymond
> Spazzmodicus <Ch...@gohip.com> spake thusly and wrote the
> devilish Raymond Knapp:
>
> >
> >We indeed do have a threefold nature just as God too has a threefold nature.
> >A threefold creature can only be representative in likness and image, of a threefold
> >creator. After all, God said: "....Let us make man in our image, after our
> >likeness..." (Genesis 1:26)
>
> Ah yes, the admitted polytheists can be quite comfortable and in
> agreement with the devilish reprobate Raymond Knapp. They feel
> a kindred spirit with him.
You are confused, to be a reprobate is wrong, to be a devilish
reprobate would mean I am a saint and serving the Lord Jesus Christ.
You really need to read and understand what you post, before you try
to insult a Christian.
I sure you really know I hate evil and anything devilish would be
evil, and again the only reprobate here is yourself. I do enjoy your
silly statements.
Since you have that threefold nature in yourself as body, soul and
spirit. Grow up and find the truth in Jesus.
Raymond
www.pioneers-for-jesus.org
Raymond
> Spazzmodicus <Ch...@gohip.com> spake thusly and wrote the
> devilish Raymond Knapp:
>
> >
> >We indeed do have a threefold nature just as God too has a threefold nature.
> >A threefold creature can only be representative in likness and image, of a threefold
> >creator. After all, God said: "....Let us make man in our image, after our
> >likeness..." (Genesis 1:26)
>
> Ah yes, the admitted polytheists can be quite comfortable and in
> agreement with the devilish reprobate Raymond Knapp. They feel
> a kindred spirit with him.
I never admitted such polytheist ideas, that is only in your mind, and
your mind seems to full of evil. God is ONE GOD. One think for sure,
only evil would feel your kindred spirit.
Steve Winter
>> Ah yes, the admitted polytheists can be quite comfortable and in
>> agreement with the devilish reprobate Raymond Knapp. They feel
>> a kindred spirit with him.
>
>You are confused, to be a reprobate is wrong, to be a devilish
>reprobate would mean I am a saint and serving the Lord Jesus Christ.
>You really need to read and understand what you post, before you try
>to insult a Christian.
You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
Knapp. The trinity filth can embrace you as their bro.
Raymond Knapp is a reprobate spiritual slut trying to put himself
over as "Oneness missionary".
Some of his email harassment and behaviour is documented at
http://www.impsmail.org/knapp.html in case anyone is inclined
to take him seriously.
Pastor sTeve Winter
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >> Ah yes, the admitted polytheists can be quite comfortable and in
> >> agreement with the devilish reprobate Raymond Knapp. They feel
> >> a kindred spirit with him.
> >
> >You are confused, to be a reprobate is wrong, to be a devilish
> >reprobate would mean I am a saint and serving the Lord Jesus Christ.
> >You really need to read and understand what you post, before you try
> >to insult a Christian.
>
> You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
> Knapp. The trinity filth can embrace you as their bro.
Nope never said that, liar! You make it all up, and posting such
lies, as the demon in you from the devil you serve Mr. Winter lets you
do so. Since there is no Trinity as you seem to think in that reply
there is, nothing can embrace me with your false teachings.
>
> Raymond Knapp is a reprobate spiritual slut trying to put himself
> over as "Oneness missionary".
MORE LIES and can be shown and proven to be lies from Mr. Winter, all
one needs to do is go to the Website that does show what this Oneness
missionary did do and what Jesus name can do for many Chinese and
Asians for the past 40 years. www.pioneers-for-jesus.org NOTE "FOR
JESUS" The ONLY ONE and only Name that can save and forgive sins. 1
John 1:7-9
>
> Some of his email harassment and behaviour is documented at
> http://www.impsmail.org/knapp.html in case anyone is inclined
> to take him seriously.
Please do go and read, and know this, if you reply to any of these
post of Mr. Winter to his mailing address, he will list you also as
harassing him. He can dish it out but can not and does not want you
to show him, or tell him he is in errors. It is great fun to read his
silly "knapp.html" be ready for a lot of empty pages, that he cut out
the contents of, then read the mailing address and most are his
stealing from the newsgroup replies like this one, and using them as
"email" replies. Who would ever want to Email such a reprobate and
liar as Mr. Steven Ray Winter????
In Jesus the only LORD,
Raymond
Steve Winter
>> You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
>> Knapp. The trinity filth can embrace you as their bro.
>
>Nope never said that, liar! You make it all up, and posting such
>lies, as the demon in you from the devil you serve Mr. Winter lets you
>do so.
What is it with these spiritual filth in the sewer with Bassett,
how they so blatantly lie about that which they have already
published world wide?
"Sorry old man. I never lie, if I, can help it." - Raymond W
Knapp 2000
"...God is Triune in nature..." - Raymond W Knapp 2000
",I did get saved in a Southern Baptist Church," - Raymond Knapp
2000
"..you will not fine Mother Teresa in Hell." - Raymond Knapp 2002
"Paul is not God, and never was God." - Knapp showing his
contempt for the Word of God 2003
Pastor Winter
--
"Winters, you are a blabbering heretic. In a truly godly
nation you would be executed for publicly promoting your
Steve Winter
>MORE LIES and can be shown and proven to be lies from Mr. Winter, all
>one needs to do is go to the Website that does show
Knapp's website shows what a spiritual whore he really is. He
has links promoting all sorts of false-christian garbage.
No, reprobate Knapp, I guess you just couldn't help lying again,
eh?
You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
Knapp.
Raymond Knapp is a reprobate spiritual slut trying to put himself
over as "Oneness missionary".
Some of his email harassment and behaviour is documented at
http://www.impsmail.org/knapp.html in case anyone is inclined
to take him seriously.
Can you say "communist sympathizer", Mr. Knapp? Of COURSE the
communists leave you alone, Mr. Knapp, you are their bubba.
Isn't it amazing the level of filth that comprise the list
of the public supporters of the reprobate Mark Bassett?
Pastor sTeve Winter
--
"Winters, you are a blabbering heretic. In a truly godly
nation you would be executed for publicly promoting your
Rod
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>
>
>>>You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
>>>Knapp.
>>
>>Your on record for believing in three in God and preach such, I am on
>>record as to saying YOU are a Triunity of Body, Soul and Spirit, as
>>all humans are. You play with that all you like, but the way you post
>>it, your the reprobate not I.
>
>
> You are a liar, reprobate Knapp. Thank you for confirming for us
> that you are a liar. Even my vilest opponents out here (other
> than your reprobate self) don't try to accuse me of teaching
> "three in God"!
>
> You are simply a liar and a fake, reprobate Knapp.
>
> Your "triunity garbage" is foolishness that the trinity filth
> try to use to deceive souls into hell.
>
> No, reprobate Knapp, I guess you just couldn't help lying again,
> eh?
>
> You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
> Knapp.
He admitted that he believes in a triune human. Now..if you have
proof that Raymond is lying post it or SHUTUP about it.
> Raymond Knapp is a reprobate spiritual slut trying to put himself
> over as "Oneness missionary".
>
> Some of his email harassment and behaviour is documented at
> http://www.impsmail.org/knapp.html in case anyone is inclined
> to take him seriously.
>
> Can you say "communist sympathizer", Mr. Knapp? Of COURSE the
> communists leave you alone, Mr. Knapp, you are their bubba.
>
> Pastor sTeve Winter
Rod
--
>>Rod:
>>OH, I'll
>>bet I know...you're having a hard time finding my address, correct ?
>>Here, let me help you:
What a filthy, malicious, irresponsible little scum we find in
the gutless anon false-christian trash "Rod" to post all of those
innocent peoples info out here.
Little scum, your identity will be subpoenaed from your ISP when
you are listed as a defendant (assuming our case is upheld by the
Federal Court of Appeals).
Don't worry, little scum, we'll find you when the time comes.
"Pastor Impersonator" Winter
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with
womankind: it [is] abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with
a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall
surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:
for even their women did change the natural use into that which
is against nature:
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of
the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men
working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that
recompence of their error which was meet.
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in
[their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do
those things which are not convenient;
You are a low life false-christian scum, Mr. Fraser, one of the
most contemptible types of net trash, a pathetic trash
desperately looking to try to appear to "be somebody" at someone
else's expense and willing to say anything to do that.
Master "Pastor Impersonator" Winter bestowing
a rare JNACH blessing..................
Raymond
> Steve Winter wrote:
>
> > rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
> >>>Knapp.
> >>
> >>Your on record for believing in three in God and preach such, I am on
> >>record as to saying YOU are a Triunity of Body, Soul and Spirit, as
> >>all humans are. You play with that all you like, but the way you post
> >>it, your the reprobate not I.
> >
> >
> > You are a liar, reprobate Knapp. Thank you for confirming for us
> > that you are a liar. Even my vilest opponents out here (other
> > than your reprobate self) don't try to accuse me of teaching
> > "three in God"!
> >
> > You are simply a liar and a fake, reprobate Knapp.
> >
> > Your "triunity garbage" is foolishness that the trinity filth
> > try to use to deceive souls into hell.
> >
> > No, reprobate Knapp, I guess you just couldn't help lying again,
> > eh?
> >
> > You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
> > Knapp.
>
> He admitted that he believes in a triune human. Now..if you have
> proof that Raymond is lying post it or SHUTUP about it.
>
He can not shut up as that would mean he lied and removed what I did
say, and added his own to what I said. Thus to make it look like he
was right. His problem is the number three; he is very limited in his
thinking. Try three manifestations in One God, and see where that
three gets him into a Condition in which there is a disturbance of
normal functions.
>
SNIP
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >MORE LIES and can be shown and proven to be lies from Mr. Winter, all
> >one needs to do is go to the Website that does show
>
> Knapp's website shows what a spiritual whore he really is. He
> has links promoting all sorts of false-christian garbage.
NO it does not! You're lying again and again, could it be you want
first place in Hell? My website like all good websites has links to
other places, not like your cultish site, that links only to your own
perversion thinking which shows the action of perverting something
(turning it to a wrong use). Just so you know what the term means,
and not use it in another way, as you are very capable of doing and
sinning by doing so.
[snipped out more filth and lies by Mr. Winter]
Raymond
www.pioneers-For-JESUS.org
>
> Pastor sTeve Winter
Spazzmodicus
news:53592110.04080...@posting.google.com:
> He can not shut up as that would mean he lied and removed what I did
> say, and added his own to what I said. Thus to make it look like he
> was right. His problem is the number three; he is very limited in his
> thinking. Try three manifestations in One God, and see where that
> three gets him into a Condition in which there is a disturbance of
> normal functions.
You ran away from my last response Raymond like a scared little chicken.
You'll attack somebody else's beliefs but then refuse to defend your
own. I suppose your're really Steve Winter incognito. Attack and run but not
defend. In fact, where's your sidekick's...who act just the same as you?:
Bill Kelly and Hank Kimbal? None of you guys are willing to put your
scriptures where your mouth is. Don't you have any scriptures that will
contradict the ones below?
=========================================================================
How did Christ sit down on the right-hand of His Father? Doesn't that imply
more than "one" being? Nothing mysterious about "sitting on the right hand".
Are you proposing this was only some sort of internal movement inside of the
singular being God? It cant be:
Hebrews 12:2
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy
that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set
down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Why would Jesus sit down at the "right hand of the throne of God". Shouldn't
God be sitting in the throne of God? It's not an 'empty' throne and Jesus is
sitting to the right of it. Please explain this riddle according to oneness
doctrine and preferably with supporting scriptures.
Here's a clue. The Father and the Son are two distinct and separate beings
and they each have their own throne.
Revelation 3:21
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as
I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Christ has a throne and His Father has a throne.
============================================================================
Now, If what is proposed above is wrong Raymond then I'm sure you'll be more
than happy to supply the necessary scriptures showing how it's wrong, rather
than supply the hot air that you bellowed out last time.
Sure you may have lead many to the Lord, but that doesn't mean a thing when
it comes to speaking the Truth about the Godhead. Let's not forget who
actually saved those people. We came into this world with nothing, and it's
only by God's grace that He allows us to minister through His Word and
Spirit. He'll use a doorknob to minister to somebody if He has to, so don't
be so proud and vain by thinking that it's your own 'righteosness' or
spiritual theories that has anything to do with it. Right now it's your lack
of faith that prevents you from confronting me about the issues I've raised
and you aren't even honest enough to admit it. That in itself is proof that
if you indeed do a work for God, it's only by God's mercy and grace that it
gets done because you are most definitely a cracked pot sir. Now, is your
God worthy of defense or not? Show me the scripture, or admit that you don't
possess an accurate perspective of God. This world is going to end much
sooner than you think. Can you tell me without any doubt that you're sure
God isn't trying to reach you at this very moment? You're eternal
destination depends on the choice you make now, so judge carefully, and by
all means, take it to God in prayer instead of holding on obstinately to
what you 'think' is the Truth. Ask God to give you a dream....a sign...
...anything for crying out loud.
Steve Winter
>> Knapp's website shows what a spiritual whore he really is. He
>> has links promoting all sorts of false-christian garbage.
>
>NO it does not! You're lying again and again, could it be you want
>first place in Hell? My website like all good websites has links to
>other places,
Well scum, if you admit to doing what I say you are doing how am
I a liar for pointing out what you are doing?
Raymond Knapp is a spiritual whore who advertises for his other
false-christian brethren.
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >> Knapp's website shows what a spiritual whore he really is. He
> >> has links promoting all sorts of false-christian garbage.
> >
> >NO it does not! You're lying again and again, could it be you want
> >first place in Hell? My website like all good websites has links to
> >other places,
>
> Well scum, if you admit to doing what I say you are doing how am
> I a liar for pointing out what you are doing?
So your mother let you get away with calling people such filthy names,
and you call yourself a believer, it is no wonder people are not
accepting Jesus name baptism and the truth of the Godhead. Your
toilet tongue is still hissing like it always has. What a waste. You
never could tell the truth, so you are a liar as what you point out is
a lie when anyone checks out what the website does say. You are just
some lonely old man, without a friend and need to act like a child
that did not get his way. Pity is all you get. You could not point
out what I am doing, as you never been where I am, and never baptized
as many as I have in the wonderful name of Jesus Christ, or build
churches and such as I have. Those that have check out the website
post a good report and the guestbook shows that to be the truth. Your
lies only make you look like what you are, lost and needing to be
saved.
>
> Pastor sTeve Winter
May God have mercy on your soul,
Raymond Knapp
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) Verbalated the following
> news:53592110.04080...@posting.google.com:
>
> > He can not shut up as that would mean he lied and removed what I did
> > say, and added his own to what I said. Thus to make it look like he
> > was right. His problem is the number three; he is very limited in his
> > thinking. Try three manifestations in One God, and see where that
> > three gets him into a Condition in which there is a disturbance of
> > normal functions.
>
> You ran away from my last response Raymond like a scared little chicken.
> You'll attack somebody else's beliefs but then refuse to defend your
> own. I suppose your're really Steve Winter incognito. Attack and run but not
> defend. In fact, where's your sidekick's...who act just the same as you?:
> Bill Kelly and Hank Kimbal? None of you guys are willing to put your
> scriptures where your mouth is. Don't you have any scriptures that will
> contradict the ones below?
You must be having some kind of mental problems, I replied to the part
of the message I wanted to. I never run and being scared little
chicken, is figthing words where I came from. Your are just silly and
such foolish remarks doesn't mean anything. If your really that sick,
see a doctor. I never been told by anyone that is honest that I have
not always defended my beliefs, in fact I been teaching and pastor for
over 40 years, and your the only one that has the nearve or is it just
because your in your safe little room with a computer? So you feel
strong enought to lie like Mr. Winter does. Oh well play your silly
game, what I said is truth and I stand by what I wrote. If you can
not understand such, you do need some help. I have nothing to do
with Mr. Winter and your insult is noted. My Sidekick is Jesus and
since He is God, we're always together. So again what are you talking
about, who are these people you named, I don't believe I ever read or
heard from them, and don't wish to.
As for putting the scripture any place but in the heart, you have a
problem. I know it makes you feel big, by lying about what we do not
do with the bible. I teach it and believe it, and have trained many
pastors, teachers and leaders what the Bible does say. Your remarks
are just silly.
Raymond
> news:53592110.04080...@posting.google.com:
>
> > He can not shut up as that would mean he lied and removed what I did
> > say, and added his own to what I said. Thus to make it look like he
> > was right. His problem is the number three; he is very limited in his
> > thinking. Try three manifestations in One God, and see where that
> > three gets him into a Condition in which there is a disturbance of
> > normal functions.
>
> You ran away from my last response Raymond like a scared little chicken.
> You'll attack somebody else's beliefs but then refuse to defend your
> own. I suppose your're really Steve Winter incognito. Attack and run but not
> defend. In fact, where's your sidekick's...who act just the same as you?:
> Bill Kelly and Hank Kimbal? None of you guys are willing to put your
> scriptures where your mouth is. Don't you have any scriptures that will
> contradict the ones below?
You must be having some kind of mental problems, I replied to the part
of the message I wanted to. I never run and being scared little
chicken, are fighting words where I came from. Your are just silly and
such foolish remarks doesn't mean anything. If you're really that
sick, see a doctor. I never been told by anyone that is honest that
I have not always defended my beliefs, in fact I been teaching and
pastor for over 40 years, and your the only one that has the nerve or
is it just because your in your safe little room with a computer? So
you feel strong enough to lie like Mr. Winter does. Oh well play your
silly game, what I said is truth and I stand by what I wrote. If you
can not understand such, you do need some help. I have nothing to do
with Mr. Winter and your insult is noted. My Sidekick is Jesus and
since He is God, we're always together. So again what are you talking
about, who are these people you named, I don't believe I ever read or
heard from them, and don't wish to.
As for putting the scripture any place but in the heart, you have a
problem. I know it makes you feel big, by lying about what we do not
do with the bible. I teach it and believe it, and have trained many
pastors, teachers and leaders what the Bible does say. Your remarks
are just silly.
> =========================================================================
> How did Christ sit down on the right-hand of His Father? Doesn't that imply
> more than "one" being? Nothing mysterious about "sitting on the right hand".
> Are you proposing this was only some sort of internal movement inside of the
> singular being God? It cant be:
Jesus is human as well as God, the human needs to sit; God is Spirit
and has no need to do such. It would do you some good to learn what
metaphors are.
>
> Hebrews 12:2
> 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy
> that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set
> down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Amen! Why do you feel I need to have to use another verse?
>
> Why would Jesus sit down at the "right hand of the throne of God". Shouldn't
> God be sitting in the throne of God? It's not an 'empty' throne and Jesus is
> sitting to the right of it. Please explain this riddle according to oneness
> doctrine and preferably with supporting scriptures.
Why
Spazzmodicus
<SNIP>
> You must be having some kind of mental problems, I replied to the part
> of the message I wanted to.
But not with scripture Raymond. What kind of preacher says what he
wants to say without the use of scripture? Do you even own a Bible?
> I never run and being scared little chicken, is figthing words where I
> came from.
I came from the Rock and it's to the Rock I'll return, where there's no
need for violence.
> Your are just silly and such foolish remarks doesn't mean anything.
They don't? Then why are you afraid to repond as a man of God quoting
scripture to prove them wrong? Write now, it's my "silly and such foolish
remarks" that have you tripping over yourself and groping for the door.
You're bellowing out more hot air just like you did last time. But because
of the stench, I'm not so sure it's coming out of your mouth. Either you
have a bad case of gas or else your demon is getting nervous.
> If your really that sick, see a doctor. I never been told by anyone that
> is honest that I have not always defended my beliefs, in fact I been
> teaching and pastor for over 40 years, and your the only one that has the
> nearve
Whoooooaaaa! Slow down there Stinky. Give me a chance to get a word in
edgewise. Firstly. You're the one that has the stinky demon in him so
you're the one that needs to see a doctor...Doctor Jesus that is. You've
hidden from Him for 40 years now, why don't you *REALLY* seek him for a
change? You're attitude would almost certainly have to change because it
certainly couldn't get any worse for an alledged man of God.
You've never been told by anybody honest that you don't defend your beliefs?
My honesty is irrelevant to you're 'defending your beliefs' because you're
proving it now with your inactions. And speaking of "nerve', I don't even
need 'nerve'. My confidence is based in the Word of God. You'll be having an
altar-call for that demon before it's over with. Where is your's by the
way. You can't even muster enough confidence to qote some scripture.
> or is it just because your in your safe little room with a computer?
So you would indeed resort to physical violence oh ye vessell of wrath?
John 3:36
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth
not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
See that Raymond? Want to know why you have no peace and don't dsiplay the
love and patience of Christ like you should right now? Because you don't
believe in Him. You believe in an idol. If you trully believed in the Son of
God, instead of a 'mode' or an 'office'...then you would have Christ and His
nature dwelling within, but according to your own beliefs and the above
scripture, you've got the wrath of God abiding on you....and I do mean it's
down on you Bubba!
> So you feel strong enought to lie like Mr. Winter does.
Mr. Winter is just like you are. You guys have your heads under your mommy's
skirts and refuse to come outside and play. Shoot me some scripture Raymond.
The ball is in your court and you're dodging it.
> Oh well play your silly game, what I said is truth and I stand by what I
> wrote.
But what about what was written a long time ago. The Bible. THAT is Truth,
and it's THAT which you now refuse to minister. Why? Does it burn your
hands? Or is it your demon won't allow you to minister the Word without the
deceit you always mix-in with it? You know if you whip out some scripture
now that it'll come down on top your head so you've no other resort to play
word games. Show me some scripture O preacher of God. If you were a preacher
of the same God I serve then I would gladly you respect you as such but as
it stands at the moment you're a fraud.....and you're perfectly content to
keep that way by reason of you're refusal to scripturally rebut what I've
asserter so far. Cluck! Cluck! Cluck! Cluck! Cluck! BreaaaaWWWKK!!!
> If you can not understand such, you do need some help. I have nothing to
> do with Mr. Winter and your insult is noted.
Good! Do something about it Super-Chicken!
My Sidekick is Jesus and since He is God, we're always together.
Uh huh. You're demon is a terrible inposter.
> So again what are you talking about, who are these people you named, I
> don't believe I ever read or heard from them, and don't wish to.
Doesn't suprise me because there is no unity without the Spirit of God.
Just for your information, they also don't believe in the Trinity.
They believe just as you do...unless there's some differences of beliefs
that I'm not aware of.
> As for putting the scripture any place but in the heart, you have a
> problem. I know it makes you feel big, by lying about what we do not
> do with the bible. I teach it and believe it, and have trained many
> pastors, teachers and leaders what the Bible does say. Your remarks
> are just silly.
If they are silly then it they must contradict some scripture that you're
aware of. Where's it at? Cluck! Cluck! Cluck! Cluck! Cluck! Cluck! Cluck!
The islamist did many great things in the distant past. They don't believ in
the Son of God any more than you do. So what does your works have to do with
anything?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spazzmodicus
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a persistent one"
>> =======================================================================
>> == How did Christ sit down on the right-hand of His Father? Doesn't
Spazzmodicus
>> =======================================================================
>> == How did Christ sit down on the right-hand of His Father? Doesn't
>> that imply more than "one" being? Nothing mysterious about "sitting on
>> the right hand". Are you proposing this was only some sort of internal
>> movement inside of the singular being God? It cant be:
>
> Jesus is human as well as God, the human needs to sit; God is Spirit
> and has no need to do such. It would do you some good to learn what
> metaphors are.
The scriptures Raymond, not you. The scriptures is what I want to see and
hear. You seem to have a problem differentiating between scriptures from the
Bible and scriptures from "The Gospel of Raymond". You're still replying
from your near-infinite inner-gaseous reserves.
According to the verse below on which I based the questions, it also says
that Jesus "endured the cross". Are you saying He never really died on the
cross and this "endured the cross" is just a metaphor too? Surely you
wouldn't stoop to such a level Raymond, and if you wouldn't, how can you
then say that "set down at the right hand of the throne of God" is just
automatically a metaphor? Once again I'm asking you:
***WHERE'S THE SCRIPTURE RAYMOND?***
>> Hebrews 12:2
>> 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the
>> joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame,
>> and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
>
> Amen! Why do you feel I need to have to use another verse?
Why is your tri-mode uni-being God sitting at the right-hand of the throne
of God?
That's why you need to use another scripture, because at the moment
according to your version, we've got Christ sitting at the right hand
of the throne of God with nobody sitting in the throne of God itself.
"One God" can't be sitting in two places at once right? To the right of the
'throne of God' *AND* in the 'throne of God'.
>> Why would Jesus sit down at the "right hand of the throne of God".
>> Shouldn't God be sitting in the throne of God? It's not an 'empty'
>> throne and Jesus is sitting to the right of it. Please explain this
>> riddle according to oneness doctrine and preferably with supporting
>> scriptures.
>
> Why
Why? Because I say you're a liar just like your pal Steve Winter. You're a
liar in that you lie to people about the true nature of God. Your refusal to
discuss in detail the constitution of God is proof of this. Why play games?
Is this how you mislead congregations into falsehood? Just blab a bunch of
stuff with scriptures misconstrued and savagely twisted out of context?
That's why you offer no scripture now because you know you'll be caught in
the abuse of the scriptures, of which I'm sure you otherwise comfortably
twist and contort to suit your needs. Guess what? The bright light of Truth
is shining into the spiritual darkness of your habitation and gleaming in
your eyes. You now suddenly have no scriptures to offer, after 40 years as a
preacher even. How strange.
The children of Israel wandered the wilderness for 40 years, so by your
logic they should've made into the promised land, but they didn't. Length of
time served means absolutely nothing to God. The thief on the cross went
with Jesus into paradise in a matter of hours. Moses served God 40 years as
well but displeased God in the end and didn't get to enter into the promised
land. When the rapture occurs, it will be the 'current state' of the
believers that is the determining factor of whether or not they get to defy
gravity, not what constitutes their past.
This should adequately prove to you or anybody up to this point the
falseness of the tri-mode God theory. It's indefensible. Why would you want
to serve an indefensible God?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spazzmodicus
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a persistent one"
>> Here's a clue. The Father and the Son are two distinct and separate
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) Verbalated the following
> news:53592110.04080...@posting.google.com:
>
> <SNIP>
>
> > You must be having some kind of mental problems, I replied to the part
> > of the message I wanted to.
>
> But not with scripture Raymond. What kind of preacher says what he
> wants to say without the use of scripture? Do you even own a Bible?
It is clear by that remark you do not know whom you are posting to,
and have not taken the time to find out. I have lots of Bibles, CD
bible programs and two degrees in this area. So please stop your
silly statements as it seems clear you do have some kind of mental
problem to even ask such questions.
Raymond
Steve Winter
>Steve Winter <steve....@prime.org> wrote in message news:<3q05h0lhdel8g2ji2...@4ax.com>...
>> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>>
>> >> Knapp's website shows what a spiritual whore he really is. He
>> >> has links promoting all sorts of false-christian garbage.
>> >
>> >NO it does not! You're lying again and again, could it be you want
>> >first place in Hell? My website like all good websites has links to
>> >other places,
>>
>> Well scum, if you admit to doing what I say you are doing how am
>> I a liar for pointing out what you are doing?
>
>So your mother let you get away with calling people such filthy names,
I was taught to tell the truth and I tell the truth about filth
like Raymond Knapp.
Let me repost my original here:
Well scum, if you admit to doing what I say you are doing how am
I a liar for pointing out what you are doing?
Raymond Knapp is a spiritual whore who advertises for his other
Steve Winter
>>
>> He admitted that he believes in a triune human. Now..if you have
>> proof that Raymond is lying post it or SHUTUP about it.
>>
>>
>the old boy's problem is thart he HAS no post where Raymond was
>supposedly lying ---- but give him time, and he's bound to invent
>something to try to make himself 'look plausible'!!
Wow, just look at the level of filthy false-christian scum trying
to defend their "bro" Raymond Knapp in his lying!
Pastor Winter
Steve Winter
>My Sidekick is Jesus and
>since He is God, we're always together.
What a pompous pride engorged false-christian scum we find in the
devilish deceiver Raymond Knapp. He is so deluded that he
believes that Lord Jesus Christ is his helpmeet.
No, reprobate Knapp, I guess you just couldn't help lying again,
eh?
You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
Knapp.
Raymond Knapp is a reprobate spiritual slut trying to put himself
over as "Oneness missionary".
Some of his email harassment and behaviour is documented at
http://www.impsmail.org/knapp.html in case anyone is inclined
to take him seriously.
Can you say "communist sympathizer", Mr. Knapp? Of COURSE the
communists leave you alone, Mr. Knapp, you are their bubba.
Isn't it amazing the level of filth that comprise the list
of the public supporters of the reprobate Mark Bassett?
Pastor sTeve Winter
Spazzmodicus
>> <SNIP>
>> > You must be having some kind of mental problems, I replied to the
>> > part of the message I wanted to.
>> But not with scripture Raymond. What kind of preacher says what he
>> wants to say without the use of scripture? Do you even own a Bible?
> It is clear by that remark you do not know whom you are posting to,
> and have not taken the time to find out.
It's most obvious that I'm not talking to a man made humble by 40 years
service to Christ. That much is certain with no investigation needed.
> I have lots of Bibles, CD bible programs and two degrees in this area.
Translation: "I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of
nothing"
But you refuse to use any of it. The more you say, the more astounding
your silence and refusual to use scripture becomes . You probably even
have a halo above your head, huh?
> So please stop your silly statements as it seems clear you do have some
> kind of mental problem to even ask such questions.
> Raymond <----Chinese for "Super_Duper_Chicken_Boy"
I used plenty of accurate and relevant scripture in support of the
statements and questions to you, so it comes as no suprise that a
demon-filled anti-Christ preacher like yourself would see nothing else
but "silly statements".
Here Raymond. Deny some more scripture why don't you? But this is even
more relevant to you specifically:
2 John 7-11
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that
Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
~ Do you admit that the Son of God came to earth in a body of flesh
~ called "Jesus"? Do you believe Jesus was sent to earth from heaven by
~ His Father, who incidentally remained in heaven while the Son of God
~ walked the earth as "Jesus"?
~ If you answer with anything other than 'yes' then you are "a deceiver
~ and an antichrist" according to the Word of God.
8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have
wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
~ How could one loose bits and pieces of 'Truth' except they set aside
~ those bits and pieces of 'Truth' momentarily in favor of something
~ other than 'Truth'? And as a result loose what they first had? "..If
~ any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself
~ shall be saved; yet so as by fire......"(1 Corinthians 3:15)
~ If you build with anything other than 'Truth', you will suffer loss
~ and most definitely will not "receive a full reward" as stated in
~ 2 John 8.
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the
Father and the Son.
~ See that? You can mealy-mouth all you want about being a servant of
~ God, but if you do not accept the "doctrine of Christ", against which
~ you're still proving to be a willing adversary, then you don't "have God".
~ You cannot be both, "void of God" and a servant of God too. The
~ answer is simple. You're not the man of God that you say you are and
~ there is abundant proof of this with you're refusal to dip into your
~ 40 years of service to "somebody" and really "let me have it" with
~ a heavy-duty dose of the Word of God. The deceived have no jurisdiction
~ in the Word of God, and it is for that reason Raymond Knapp that you
~ cannot use the Word of God to defeat me: Because it's off-limits to
~ you. That, and the fact that it's the 'Word of God' that I'm using
~ to defeat you.
~ According to verse 9 above, I have both the Father and the Son. Not
~ 'modes', not 'offices' or any other implied falsehoods. I've Got *GOD*
~ on my side. Whomever you have on your side isn't of much help to you
~ at the moment.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him
not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
~ You're even out of compliance with this verse Raymond because you
~ refuse to bring *ANY* doctrine to the table, yours or anybody's. You
~ play silly child games with words and assail my mental state, yet you
~ can't overcome my 'alledged' mental problems. Doesn't that make your
~ mental state less than that of mine? An if you REEEEALLY believed what
~ you accuse me of, then why do you hang on, silly reply after silly
~ reply? It's because at the moment, you're being tossed about in a
~ 'tempest' and have no idea which way is up and which way is down.
~ But it won't always be that way Raymond because unless you jettison
~ that heavy load of false doctrine that you're currently clinging to
~ for dear life, you'll find out which way is 'down' as it sinks you
~ to the depths of hell. And you won't sink in 'ignorance' because
~ you've now been warned. Isn't that a terrible thought? To be in
~ hell with knowledge of the fact that you were warned beforehand and
~ that you became a resident of hell "by choice" because you rejected
~ the Truth that was presented to you?
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
~ And thus the reason why I'm not bringing you a message of "peace, joy
~ and love" at the moment....because you'll deceitfully slither right
~ into the fold as though we were "brethren" of the same God, thereby
~ enabling you to deceive whomever is foolish enough to listen to you.
~ And by opposing you am I justified according to the verses above because
~ it is in the Name of Jesus Christ and His Doctrine that I reject you!
======================
2 Corinthians 4:1-4
4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we
faint not;
2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in
craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation
of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of
God.
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe
not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of
God, should shine unto them.
Now, man of 'god'. Your 'god' has not enabled you or empowered you to use
the scriptures of the Bible and he is in no way able to do such. *THIS* is
why you commonly refer to the "Gospel of Raymond"...because it's the only
gospel you're allowed to use.
Now Raymond, all I've stated is true. I now say this in humility:
Please, please Raymond consider what has been said. Those whom are
'deceived' cannot in any way, shape of form see that they are deceived,
nor do they believe they are deceived. They believe themselves to be
whatever they wish themselves to be but "deceived" isn't one of them, and
this is specifically why you argue against belief in a 3 being-in-one God.
I'm on the outside looking in on and am trying to throw you a lifeline. If
you'll be the slightest bit willing to humble yourself before the True
Living God, to consider and ponder these things, and willing to allow the
scales over your eyes to be pried up just a bit, it will allow the True
Light of God to enter into your soul, and your life will change.
I'm not interested in a reponse from you Raymond. I'm interested in a
change in your life all to the Glory of the True Living God. Don't answer
if you still oppose all that's been said here, but rather hit your knees
and ask God Himself. If you're not willing to humbly consider before God
that you've possibly been wrong in your perspective of God, then your
current 'god' will be more than happy to supply your answer, through
your own pride.
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) Verbalated the following
> > Spazzmodicus Verbalated the following
>
> >> <SNIP>
>
> >> > You must be having some kind of mental problems, I replied to the
> >> > part of the message I wanted to.
>
> >> But not with scripture Raymond. What kind of preacher says what he
> >> wants to say without the use of scripture? Do you even own a Bible?
>
> > It is clear by that remark you do not know whom you are posting to,
> > and have not taken the time to find out.
>
> It's most obvious that I'm not talking to a man made humble by 40 years
> service to Christ. That much is certain with no investigation needed.
I suppose you have to believe that foolishness to be able to reply at
all.
Snip all you false statements and silly remarks, as this at the end
shows you only want to give half truths and play a game. If one is
not interested in a response, it is strange that you post at all. So
we again can see your not humble in any meaning of that word, and
could care less about truth, only your own handle on what you think is
truth, even if your not interested in what others say, as long as your
remarks are read, that is pure pride and a foul distinctive odor that
is offensively unpleasant that reaches God.
> I'm not interested in a reponse from you Raymond. I'm interested in a
> change in your life all to the Glory of the True Living God. Don't answer
> if you still oppose all that's been said here, but rather hit your knees
> and ask God Himself. If you're not willing to humbly consider before God
> that you've possibly been wrong in your perspective of God, then your
> current 'god' will be more than happy to supply your answer, through
> your own pride.
Still a very bad and offensive odor emulates from your posting.
Raymond
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >Steve Winter <steve....@prime.org> wrote in message news:<3q05h0lhdel8g2ji2...@4ax.com>...
> >> Well scum, if you admit to doing what I say you are doing how am
> >> I a liar for pointing out what you are doing?
> >
> >So your mother let you get away with calling people such filthy names,
>
> I was taught to tell the truth and I tell the truth about filth
> like Raymond Knapp.
So you're saying your Mother and your church taught you how to say
"Scum" and such toilet terms. Which you see as truth, you are nothing
but a tool, used of evil. I never was in a real Church, which would
permit such filthy language as you seem to enjoy posting in. So I see
you as a liar, a deceiver, a person that is not saved, and are living
in sin, as your own words condemn you.
>
> Pastor sTeve Winter
Steve Winter
>So you're saying your Mother and your church taught you how to say
>"Scum"
Raymond, it is the Word of God that uses terms like "scum" to
refer to deceiving hypocritical scum like Raymond Knapp.
I believe that some of you folks have some serious misconceptions
about the Lord of the Bible, who was the perfect example for the
Christian..
I Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ
also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should
follow his steps:
I Peter 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his
mouth:
I Peter 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he
suffered, he threatened not; but committed [himself] to him that
judgeth righteously:
But let us also look at a particular situation that shows us the
Lord exhibiting unusual behaviour; and that is, when he
encountered false preachers, false religionists, deceivers and
fakes like Raymond Knapp.
Matthew 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can
ye escape the damnation of hell?
Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear
beautiful outward, but are within full of dead [men's] bones, and
of all uncleanness.
Looking carefully at verse 27. In our modern language "full of
dead men's bones and all uncleanliness" would roughly translate
as the modern term "scum". That tells me that if the Lord was
walking our streets today and encountered a denominal trinitarian
preacher or some devilish deceiver like Raymond Knapp, that He
would call him/her/it "scum", "snake", "hypocrite".
"Love incarnate" didn't coddle false preachers. The Apostle Paul
instructs us should we encounter anyone preaching other than the
original Acts 2:38 message:
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any
other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you,
let him be accursed.
(Check out Acts 19, if you have any doubts that Paul adhered to
the Acts 2:38 re-birth of WATER and SPIRIT.)
Would Jesus Christ call you and/or your preacher "scum" ? If
he's not preaching the Acts 2:38 Apostolic message, or some fake
pretending like Raymond Knapp He sure would!
Remember that the filthy deceiver Raymond Knapp claims that he
was saved without obeying Acts 2:38 though he likes to play
"oneness" now.
Spazzmodicus
<SNIP>
>> > It is clear by that remark you do not know whom you are posting to,
>> > and have not taken the time to find out.
>> It's most obvious that I'm not talking to a man made humble by 40
>> years service to Christ. That much is certain with no investigation
>> needed.
> I suppose you have to believe that foolishness to be able to reply at
> all.
No. What I've asserted is being proven by your continually proud and
scriptureless responses.
> Snip all you false statements and silly remarks, as this at the end
> shows you only want to give half truths and play a game.
I've snipped the scriptures that you refuse to explain according to your
beliefs. If those scriptures are "false statements and silly remarks, and
half truths" to you then so be it. You're still proving the points that I've
made.
> If one is not interested in a response, it is strange that you post at
> all. So we again can see your not humble in any meaning of that word,
> and could care less about truth, only your own handle on what you think
> is truth, even if your not interested in what others say, as long as your
> remarks are read, that is pure pride and a foul distinctive odor that
> is offensively unpleasant that reaches God.
And it's strange that you say certain words and phrases *ONLY* after
somebody has first accused you of them. Humble, snipping, foul
distinctive odor? Not in any of your previous posts. Hmmm? As far as being
interested in Truth. Come. Join me Raymond. Let us ascertain the
interpretations of scriptures together, shall we?
Isaiah 66:1
66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my
footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place
of my rest?
Can you agree with me Raymond that Isaiah 66:1 is concerning 'God the
Father'? YES/NO
Hebrews 10:10-13
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of
Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the
same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat
down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Can you agree with me Raymond that Paul is speaking in reference to
Jesus Christ, especially since in verse 10 it names "Jesus Christ" by name?
YES/NO
If you can agree that Isaiah 66:1 is speaking of God the Father, and that
Hebrews 10:10-13 is speaking of Jesus Christ the Son of God, then how can
you possibly believe that this is talking about the same being? Can you see
a contradiction here with oneness teachings? YES/NO
Here are a few questions:
1.The Father said in Isaiah 66:1 "earth is my footstool". YES/NO
2.The Son is still waiting "till his enemies be made his footstool".YES/NO
3.Jesus sat down on the right hand of God. YES/NO
4.Why on the right Hand. Why not sit *IN* the "Throne of God"? ???/??
5.Doesn't all the above indicate the existence of a God of more than one
being? YES/NO
Please Raymond, adress the points above if you will. You'll notice I've
taken care to not play word games or anything else you've accused. Please
explain the above according to the oneness beliefs. I think you made a false
statement when you said "even if your not interested in what others say"
because I have in the past and am now once again showing my interest in what
you have to say. Enlighten me.
> Still a very bad and offensive odor emulates from your posting.
And it's bad grammar and word selection that "emanates" from yours.
> Raymond <---I'll leave it alone this time......
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) Verbalated the following
> news:53592110.04080...@posting.google.com:
>
> <SNIP>
>
> >> > It is clear by that remark you do not know whom you are posting to,
> >> > and have not taken the time to find out.
>
> >> It's most obvious that I'm not talking to a man made humble by 40
> >> years service to Christ. That much is certain with no investigation
> >> needed.
>
> > I suppose you have to believe that foolishness to be able to reply at
> > all.
>
> No. What I've asserted is being proven by your continually proud and
> scriptureless responses.
Jesus the Christ, that is your problem, not mine. What verse would
you like? Then I suppose your asambed of the Lord so what else could
we expect from you.
2 Sam 6:22
22 And I will be even more undignified than this, and will be humble
in my own sight. But as for the maidservants of whom you have spoken,
by them I will be held in honor."
NKJV
Deut 4:27-30
27 And the LORD will scatter you among the peoples, and you will be
left few in number among the nations where the LORD will drive you. 28
And there you will serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and
stone, which neither see nor hear nor eat nor smell. 29 But from there
you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you seek Him
with all your heart and with all your soul. 30 When you are in
distress, and all these things come upon you in the latter days, when
you turn to the LORD your God and obey His voice
NKJV
>
>
> > Snip all you false statements and silly remarks, as this at the end
> > shows you only want to give half truths and play a game.
>
> I've snipped the scriptures that you refuse to explain according to your
> beliefs. If those scriptures are "false statements and silly remarks, and
> half truths" to you then so be it. You're still proving the points that I've
> made.
For one thing you only made points to yourself, they are not bible and
so are not truth, and not worth the time to explain or even care
about. You are in false teaching, and all you do is tell others they
are the one in error. So sad indeed. My belief has been explained so
many times in the last ten years here and on the BBS; it would be a
total waste of my time to think you are important enough to do that
all over again. Drop by our website and read them, I got better
things to do with my time then to rehash again what the Bible
teachings are and the Truth of a real bible study would bring out.
God has been blessing over the weekend and everyone that was prayed
for said they felt a healing, pain gone, joy and a thankful heart to
the Lord Jesus was all I needed to know, what I do preach and do, is
blessed by God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ is well pleased
with me, and I am so proud of Jesus and the Joy that God gives to them
that love him. I hope someday you will get out of your little man
made whole, and find the reality in Christ Jesus.
>
> > If one is not interested in a response, it is strange that you post at
> > all. So we again can see your not humble in any meaning of that word,
> > and could care less about truth, only your own handle on what you think
> > is truth, even if your not interested in what others say, as long as your
> > remarks are read, that is pure pride and a foul distinctive odor that
> > is offensively unpleasant that reaches God.
>
> And it's strange that you say certain words and phrases *ONLY* after
> somebody has first accused you of them. Humble, snipping, foul
> distinctive odor? Not in any of your previous posts. Hmmm? As far as being
> interested in Truth. Come. Join me Raymond. Let us ascertain the
> interpretations of scriptures together, shall we?
I will not join or be joinned with ones in unbelief, the Bible teaches
that. Do you need the verse?
Raymond
>
Steve Winter
>God bless..... How are you and your wife doing these days, Raymond? Well,
>I hope.
The false-christian scum like Merle Elaine Matthews can
comfortably embrace reprobate Knapp as their spiritual brother.
So far the false-christian dirt Merle Elaine Matthews always
changes the subject when she is asked what the difference is
between the trinity that she worships and the trinity that the
pope worships.
In what way is Merle's three headed Roman idol god squad
different from the popes three headed Roman idol god squad?
In what way is Merle's trinity cult baptism different
than the pope's trinity cult baptism?
Merle Elaine Matthews is merely "Catholic lite"<tm> railing
at her spiritual mama.
Pastor Winter
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >MORE LIES and can be shown and proven to be lies from Mr. Winter, all
> >one needs to do is go to the Website that does show
>
> Knapp's website shows what a spiritual whore he really is. He
> has links promoting all sorts of false-christian garbage.
Then like I said folks check out our website for your self. The site
is www.pioneers-for-JESUS.org then you will find we have lots of links
and make it clear we do not endorse them, but they are their for you,
to check out these groups and so be a wise person and have as they say
"right from the horses mouth' information, not the rewritten and added
to stuff Mr. Winter does post.
>
> Pastor sTeve Winter
Raymond Knapp
Raymond
Rod
> In article <53592110.04080...@posting.google.com>,
> rwk...@hotmail.com sez the following stuff in this here li'l ole
> news'froup...!
>
>>You are confused, to be a reprobate is wrong, to be a devilish
>>reprobate would mean I am a saint and serving the Lord Jesus Christ.
>>You really need to read and understand what you post, before you try
>>to insult a Christian.
>>
>>I sure you really know I hate evil and anything devilish would be
>>evil, and again the only reprobate here is yourself. I do enjoy your
>>silly statements.
>>Since you have that threefold nature in yourself as body, soul and
>>spirit. Grow up and find the truth in Jesus.
>>
>>Raymond
>>www.pioneers-for-jesus.org
>>
>>
>
> How true, Raymond.
>
> Mister Winter needs to remember:
>
> Eph 4:31-32
> 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil
> speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
> 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another,
> even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
>
> Phi 4:8
> Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are
> honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure,
> whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if
> there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
> God bless..... How are you and your wife doing these days, Raymond? Well,
> I hope.
>
Hi Elaine ! I see the howling dog and his vomit have returned to
slander and harrass you again. Makes me wander how he speaks to his
own family !
Rod
Rod
Raymond;
If you don't endorse the links, why post them ? They may be harmfull
to your visitors in ways you can't imagine yet. And even if they are
not, aren't they contrary to your own personal beliefs ? Why give
reprobate winter more fodder for his cannon ?
Rod
Raymond
Thank you for your reply; I let you see if these links would be
harmful, I see them as informational. I have checked them to make
sure they are not harmful and would be interesting to any believer in
Christ Jesus. I am not posting anything contrary to my own beliefs,
most of what is posted here in this area is contrary to my belief an
also yours, but here we are. It is better to know what others do
believe and give people a link then only put one-sided teachings as
Mr. Winter does, which is so slanted they end up be false and
misinformation etc. I really do not care about Mr. Winters cannon, as
by him posting as he does, it gives me a opportunity to reply and many
have looked at our website that would not have done so, just to see
what he is so angry about. Then he is a lost soul and I would hope no
one would just dismiss him, as that would remove his opportunity to
someday repent and find peace in his soul with Jesus as Lord and
Saviour. Here is a cut and paste from the area that Mr. Winter was
posting I have at our website.
From www.pioneers-for-jesus.org website pages, check them out if you
like to readers.
=====================================================================
Internet Ministries for Christian information, check these links out.
These Links are provided as a service to you the web traveler.
Pioneers For Jesus, makes NO endorsement of their content or of their
doctrinal beliefs or their teachings.
YOU the viewer must decide whether they are truly Christian.
Happy surfing! Pastor Raymond W. Knapp, Th.B, D.D
Contents
Apostolic World Christian Fellowship Pioneers for Jesus Hong Kong,
China
Apostolic Voice Online Christian Bookstore
Apostolic-Listings on web. Encyclopedia of Christian Links
I.M.A International Ministerial Assn' Azusa Street 1906 Mission
United Pentecostal Church Int'l Over 300 Jewish Links
Bright Spot - Lots of information Assemblies of God
Thru The Bible Radio Network Baptist
Net Ministries - Christian Links Church of the Brethren
Churches Seeking Ministers Christian Church
Intercristo employment for Christians Evangelical Lutheran Church
Christian Research Institute Church of the Nazarene
Billy Graham Evangelistic Association Rhema Bible Church
Midnight Cry Ministries Quakers Church
Promise Keepers Jimmy Swagger's Bible School
Chick Publications Oral Roberts Univ.
John Hagee ministry Liberty University
Christian Answers Net Ankerberg Research Institute
Jack Van Impe Ministries TBN Trinity Broadcasting Network
Rod Parsley Christian Broadcast Network
Insight For Living Live Christian Radio
Send us an URL? A miracle net Music
I have made every attempt to make sure, these links are current and
correct.
If you find any one that is inactive or has moved please email Click
[ Here.].
Thank you!
These Links are provided as a service to you the web traveler.
Pioneers For Jesus, makes NO endorsement of their content or of their
doctrinal beliefs or their teachings.
YOU the viewer must decide whether they are truly Christian.
Happy surfing! Pastor Raymond W. Knapp, Th.B, D.D
If you come to Hong Kong stop and see us at the:
基督教顯恩堂
Christian Glorify Grace Church
地址: 新界粉嶺聯和墟和豐街14-16號3樓
3rd Floor, 14-16 Wo Fung Street, Luen Wo Market,
Fanling, N.T.
電話(Tel.): 26392190 傳真(Fax.): 26392150
電郵(Email): cgg...@yahoo.com.hk
this page is still under construction so come back often!
===============================================================
Yours Truly,
Pastor Raymond Knapp
Steve Winter
>then you will find we have lots of links
>and make it clear we do not endorse them, but they are their for you,
What a filthy spiritual slut we find in the devilish fake
"oneness" missionary Raymond Knapp.
Any of you real Oneness Christians still wondering why
I rejected Knapp as a fake years ago?
Any of you who threw away your honor, integrity and salvation to
support Raymond Knapp feeling the least bit embarrassed yet?
Steve Winter
>Whether Mr. W likes it or not, I will keep praying for him.
Which one of your god squad persons will you be praying to,
Merle?
So far the false-christian dirt Merle Elaine Matthews always
changes the subject when she is asked what the difference is
between the trinity that she worships and the trinity that the
pope worships.
In what way is Merle's three headed Roman idol god squad
different from the popes three headed Roman idol god squad?
In what way is Merle's trinity cult baptism different
than the pope's trinity cult baptism?
Merle Elaine Matthews is merely "Catholic lite"<tm> railing
at her spiritual mama.
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
Spazzmodicus
> Spazzmodicus <No_Junkmail@My_Box> wrote in message
> news:<Xns954188E8...@216.168.3.50>...
>> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) Verbalated the following
>> news:53592110.04080...@posting.google.com:
>>
>> <SNIP>
>>
>> >> > It is clear by that remark you do not know whom you are posting
>> >> > to, and have not taken the time to find out.
>>
>> >> It's most obvious that I'm not talking to a man made humble by 40
>> >> years service to Christ. That much is certain with no investigation
>> >> needed.
>>
>> > I suppose you have to believe that foolishness to be able to reply
>> > at all.
>>
>> No. What I've asserted is being proven by your continually proud and
>> scriptureless responses.
>
> I am sorry if you do not like me being proud of my Lord and Saviour
> Jesus the Christ, that is your problem, not mine. What verse would
> you like?
How about the verses you deleted without offering any comment whatsoever?
> Then I suppose your asambed of the Lord so what else could
> we expect from you.
More coherent responses for one.
> 2 Sam 6:22
> 22 And I will be even more undignified than this, and will be humble
> in my own sight. But as for the maidservants of whom you have spoken,
> by them I will be held in honor."
> NKJV
Totally irrelevant to the topic of this thread, but then again, irrelevancy
seems to be your primary "smokescreen" ploy. Now don't forget to use the
word "smokescreen" in your response Raymond since I just brought it up,
since you have the creative originality of a toilet plunger.
> Deut 4:27-30
> 27 And the LORD will scatter you among the peoples, and you will be
> left few in number among the nations where the LORD will drive you. 28
> And there you will serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and
> stone, which neither see nor hear nor eat nor smell. 29 But from there
> you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you seek Him
> with all your heart and with all your soul. 30 When you are in
> distress, and all these things come upon you in the latter days, when
> you turn to the LORD your God and obey His voice
> NKJV
Funny you should list the scripture above since I've already proven you
serve a false God and now refuse to acknowledge or comment on the scriptures
I supply. Why else would you delete them Raymond? You didn't even leave
a "<SNIP> comment as one does when they have 'honest' intentions.
The fact of the matter is that you're NOT a man of honor nor integrity.
Just because you have those around you fooled does it mean you can fool me
to. You're afraid of the Truth that I've brought forward and refuse to
address it all while pointing your crooked finger at me in blame.
That's OK Raymond. You can only run from God for so long.
>> > Snip all you false statements and silly remarks, as this at the end
>> > shows you only want to give half truths and play a game.
>>
>> I've snipped the scriptures that you refuse to explain according to
>> your beliefs. If those scriptures are "false statements and silly
>> remarks, and half truths" to you then so be it. You're still proving
>> the points that I've made.
>
> For one thing you only made points to yourself, they are not bible and
> so are not truth,
OK...but why did you delete the scriptures? They WERE Bible and Truth.
You only have an interest in trying to save your dying self-image, again
which more resembles a toilet plunger than anything else. You do all this at
the expense of stepping on the Truth in an effort to project a false of of
the Raymond Knapp that you world rather believe in.
> and not worth the time to explain or even care about.
Again Raymond it was "scriptures from the King James Bible" that you
deleted, and if my commentary was wrong, is not the Truth worth defending?
If you don't have a relationship with the Truth Himself now, what makes your
pointed little head think you're going to have a relationship with Him in
eternity?
> You are in false teaching, and all you do is tell others they
> are the one in error. So sad indeed.
I've given you every effort to point out my error and you refuse to do so.
I will continue to give you the opportunity to point out my error because
unlike you, I feel the Truth is worthy of defence. It may not mean much to
you now but it's going to mean more than you can ever imagine at the
judgement seat when you find yourself on the wrong side of the Truth, having
been adequately forwarned of your foolishness.
> My belief has been explained so many times in the last ten years here and
> on the BBS; it would be a total waste of my time to think you are
> important enough to do that all over again.
It's easy to flap your gums about your beliefs when there is no opposition
present. But I represent more than just mere opposition. I represent the
Truth. If you wish to take that title away from me by telling the Truth then
you're more than free to do so but until then, I proclaim you to be a liar
and a cheat. You can't be honest in this anonymous form of communication,
much less anywhere else. That's a scary thought when one thinks you may be
behind a pulpit at times.
> Drop by our website and read them, I got better things to do with my time
> then to rehash again what the Bible teachings are and the Truth of a real
> bible study would bring out.
Suonds like a very sincere leader of God's children. A true pastor always
puts God, His Word and God's children first. You're living unto yourself and
serving only yuorself. And as far as your website is concerned, my 12 year
old daughter could build a better site than that.
> God has been blessing over the weekend and everyone that was prayed
> for said they felt a healing, pain gone, joy and a thankful heart to
> the Lord Jesus was all I needed to know, what I do preach and do, is
> blessed by God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ is well pleased
> with me, and I am so proud of Jesus and the Joy that God gives to them
> that love him. I hope someday you will get out of your little man
> made whole, and find the reality in Christ Jesus.
I've found him my friend. He's the same one you're running away from in your
delusions.
>> > If one is not interested in a response, it is strange that you post
>> > at all. So we again can see your not humble in any meaning of that
>> > word, and could care less about truth, only your own handle on what
>> > you think is truth, even if your not interested in what others say,
>> > as long as your remarks are read, that is pure pride and a foul
>> > distinctive odor that is offensively unpleasant that reaches God.
>>
>> And it's strange that you say certain words and phrases *ONLY* after
>> somebody has first accused you of them. Humble, snipping, foul
>> distinctive odor? Not in any of your previous posts. Hmmm? As far as
>> being interested in Truth. Come. Join me Raymond. Let us ascertain the
>> interpretations of scriptures together, shall we?
>
> I will not join or be joinned with ones in unbelief, the Bible teaches
> that. Do you need the verse?
No. I need you to respond to the points I made. I'll repaste them everytime
you delete them. If you want 2000 message out there that shows Raymond Knapp
avoided scriptures that were in direct contradiction to his beliefs then so
be it.
===========================================================================
Deleted by Raymond one time so far:
===========================================================================
Spazzmodicus
@corp.supernews.com:
> Raymond;
>
> If you don't endorse the links, why post them ? They may be harmfull
> to your visitors in ways you can't imagine yet. And even if they are
> not, aren't they contrary to your own personal beliefs ? Why give
> reprobate winter more fodder for his cannon ?
Raymond doesn't have any personal beliefs....at least none in which he'll
stand his ground and defend. His first instinctive response when
encountering a message with scriptures that contradict his beliefs, is to
hit the delete key and in a state of panic and denial, and then exhibit some
sort of flatlulatory eruptive disorder through his keyboard.
Rod
Thank you for the invitation and the links, Raymond. However, I am
still concerned about the situation due to Winter abilities to disperse
the flock, and he IS capable of undoing any good you have done to date,
as his fruit suggests, he carries the spirit of the destroyer. I ask
only that you remain wary of his presence for the sake of the sheep
in your mission.
Rod
Spazzmodicus
> Spazzmodicus wrote:
>
>> Rod <nos...@noway.com> Verbalated the following news:10hl1k6g249u347
>> @corp.supernews.com:
>>
>>
>>>Raymond;
>>>
>>>If you don't endorse the links, why post them ? They may be harmfull
>>>to your visitors in ways you can't imagine yet. And even if they are
>>>not, aren't they contrary to your own personal beliefs ? Why give
>>>reprobate winter more fodder for his cannon ?
>> Raymond doesn't have any personal beliefs....at least none in which
>> he'll stand his ground and defend.
>
> Perhaps he doesn't know where to start defending it, where you are
> concerned. You ARE a formidable debater to be certain, but I can see as
> well that it is your way of guarding the flock and you're very effective
> at it. I'm glad I'm not a wolf....it's nice to have you here.
Thanks much Rod, but concerning "he doesn't know where to start defending
it, where you are concerned"...How about the scriptures he keeps deleting
and ignoring? One who is in search of the real Truth, and wishes to
represent the real Truth, need not concern themselves with the "angle" of
those opposing them. The Truth can take care of Himself and those whom side
with Him. It's only because Raymond is NOT representing the Truth that he
plays his games of deceit. Somehow, much to my suprise, he has enough wit to
see this, thus his continual scharades. His deceitful and cowardly evasive
behaviour is undeniable evidence that it's not the Truth whom inspres
Raymond, but rather the deceit that is in the heart of all. It is Truth that
eradicates the deceit which is in the heart of man from birth. Often times
it's a temporarily painful circumstance to face the Truth that we
inadvertently find is standing in our very face and uninvited at the moment
of arrival, but that temporary pain of acknowledging the Truth, whom
frequently presents Himself to us, will eventually become our eternal
pleasure in the prescence of God. With this in view, that ANYBODY would
prefer temorary deceit and delusion in order to avoid a bit of temporary
earthly pain, embarrassment, unsought humility, all at the cost of a joyous
eternity with God stand out as MORE than "stark contrast" to me. It's just
plain insane. Let not those whom deny the Truth now think that they're
somehow going to spend eternity in the presence of God. Sure, some might
somehow make it to heaven, but they won't be in the very prescence of He
whom they denied in this life.
>> His first instinctive response when encountering a message with
>> scriptures that contradict his beliefs, is to hit the delete key
Raymond
>
> > You are in false teaching, and all you do is tell others they
> > are the one in error. So sad indeed.
>
> I've given you every effort to point out my error and you refuse to do so.
> I will continue to give you the opportunity to point out my error because
> unlike you, I feel the Truth is worthy of defence. It may not mean much to
> you now but it's going to mean more than you can ever imagine at the
> judgement seat when you find yourself on the wrong side of the Truth, having
> been adequately forwarned of your foolishness.
Sorry if that is all you can do for "every effort" you are in deep
biblical trouble. I never refused to do any such thing, your
statements are mostly insults and not worth the time to reply to.
Simple as that. Very funny from a high point you show your pride,
"unlike you". Yes that is unlike me, I address the issues not hid
behind silly statements that you're posting here. I not find myself
on the wrong side, you are on the wrong side, and your forewarning is
just plain silly to post in such a manner. God is able to lead you,
only if you are willing to be lead. Till then, you are like the blind
leading the blind and in the ditch you will go.
>
>
> > My belief has been explained so many times in the last ten years here and
> > on the BBS; it would be a total waste of my time to think you are
> > important enough to do that all over again.
>
> It's easy to flap your gums about your beliefs when there is no opposition
> present. But I represent more than just mere opposition. I represent the
> Truth. If you wish to take that title away from me by telling the Truth then
> you're more than free to do so but until then, I proclaim you to be a liar
> and a cheat. You can't be honest in this anonymous form of communication,
> much less anywhere else. That's a scary thought when one thinks you may be
> behind a pulpit at times.
Yes it is easy talk, and then it seems you are a child without teeth
or so old you would use such a statement as "flap your gums". So it
is no wonder you have difficulty with what is truth and what is not.
You present just your own mere opposition and not the truth, more like
pure pride in ignorant statements. Then only a demon would be worried
about me being behind a pulpit, which does tell the reader a lot about
you and your make-believe teachings.
>
>
> > Drop by our website and read them, I got better things to do with my time
> > then to rehash again what the Bible teachings are and the Truth of a real
> > bible study would bring out.
>
> Suonds like a very sincere leader of God's children. A true pastor always
> puts God, His Word and God's children first. You're living unto yourself and
> serving only yuorself. And as far as your website is concerned, my 12 year
> old daughter could build a better site than that.
So now you are the judge also, I am living unto yourself is very
funny, since I have lived for others most of my life, and built and
trained more ministers, pastors then you have know personally in all
your life. Then let your 12 year old daughter do so, and if her pride
is any worse then yours, well that would be interesting. My website
is for the Honor and glory of the Lord Jesus Christ and If your 12
year old could do better let her do so and give us the web address so
all can see, if you all "hot air" or just like lying.
>
>
> > God has been blessing over the weekend and everyone that was prayed
> > for said they felt a healing, pain gone, joy and a thankful heart to
> > the Lord Jesus was all I needed to know, what I do preach and do, is
> > blessed by God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ is well pleased
> > with me, and I am so proud of Jesus and the Joy that God gives to them
> > that love him. I hope someday you will get out of your little man
> > made whole, and find the reality in Christ Jesus.
>
> I've found him my friend. He's the same one you're running away from in your
> delusions.
So you found the Lord that was blessing our services and you say he is
the same and that would make you delusional. Which does again give
insight in to some of your mental problems which Jesus the Lord could
heal if you would let him do so. What is my delusions? That I love
Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour? That God is the same today,
yesterday and forever Heb 13:8 or are you just some JW that got all
messed up and have no idea of what truth faith is all about?
>
>
> >> > If one is not interested in a response, it is strange that you post
> >> > at all. So we again can see your not humble in any meaning of that
> >> > word, and could care less about truth, only your own handle on what
> >> > you think is truth, even if your not interested in what others say,
> >> > as long as your remarks are read, that is pure pride and a foul
> >> > distinctive odor that is offensively unpleasant that reaches God.
> >>
> >> And it's strange that you say certain words and phrases *ONLY* after
> >> somebody has first accused you of them. Humble, snipping, foul
> >> distinctive odor? Not in any of your previous posts. Hmmm? As far as
> >> being interested in Truth. Come. Join me Raymond. Let us ascertain the
> >> interpretations of scriptures together, shall we?
> >
> > I will not join or be joinned with ones in unbelief, the Bible teaches
> > that. Do you need the verse?
>
> No. I need you to respond to the points I made. I'll repaste them everytime
> you delete them. If you want 2000 message out there that shows Raymond Knapp
> avoided scriptures that were in direct contradiction to his beliefs then so
> be it.
You post all you like, I will answer what I like and cut the rest out
so the readers can find the reply then have to keep reading and
reading what was already posted over and over again. Your pride is
great it is no wonder you think your points are important, when they
are not, since they are not biblical in teachings, only verses out of
context and your strange interpretations of them. I have not seen any
verse that contradicted my beliefs, so you lie again. Now you think
you can tell me what I believe and go into some kind of teacher mode
to correct your own ideas which are false to start with. My beliefs
are on my website so all the world can see and read and know. Where
is your open and public website that does the same? I do not avoid
scriptures I teach them. Again what beliefs do you think you are
contradicting by your silly statements? I have found no verse or
verses that would contradict what I do believe, not what you evil mind
thinks I believe that is between you and you.
> ===========================================================================
> Deleted by Raymond one time so far:
> ===========================================================================
Nope they are in the bible and I never delete a bible verse, what I do
is delete your false understanding of a verse that you take out of
context and try to make it read what it does not say, when used in the
section of the Bible it was posted in.
> Isaiah 66:1
> 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my
> footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place
> of my rest?
>
> Can you agree with me Raymond that Isaiah 66:1 is concerning 'God the
> Father'? YES/NO
So you like to limit to a yes and no. Not very intelligent way of
getting to the truth of the matter is it? For one thing God not
called "God the Father" in the OT, So YES God is the Father and the
Father is asking a question, then really this is what it says "Thus
saith the LORD" not God the Father as you need it to say. I believe
the Bible as is, not as you need to make it say what it does not say.
The LORD, the LORD, is what it does say. So then it would be NO to
your question, since there is no term as "God the Father" used here. I
like the Holy Bible and what it does say, and it is no wonder I would
delete all your verse and statements, as you added to the verse to
make misdirection away from the Holy Word to your minds ideas, which
is wrong and not biblical.
>
> Hebrews 10:10-13
> 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of
> Jesus Christ once for all.
> 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the
> same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
> 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat
> down on the right hand of God;
> 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
>
> Can you agree with me Raymond that Paul is speaking in reference to
> Jesus Christ, especially since in verse 10 it names "Jesus Christ" by name?
> YES/NO
Again a yes/no are not going to cover this. As anyone can see, then
maybe your blind by your doctrine in verse 10 it says "body of Jesus
Christ" so why play with your yes/no, when it says Jesus Christ
without your silly yes or no statements? I know for sure Paul is
writing about JESUS Christ his earthy human body, as Jesus is both God
and Man, Son of God, Son of man. Which it seems you just cut out his
humanity by your yes/no statement. Jesus is at the right hand of God,
no question to it. Then again you do not know what I believe, you
just make that up, so to post some more. Do you understand the
meaning of "right hand" as found in the bible? Be nice to look it up
and read the foot notes or references meanings of such terms. I sure
as Paul did and I do, we believe Jesus is LORD, God and Son of man, as
well as Son of God, the God man, the fullness of the Godhead dwelling
in Christ Jesus. When one has Jesus they have the Father, Son and
Holy Ghost/Spirit. There is only ONE GOD is that correct? Then to
play as you do, say YES/NO only if you can.
>
> If you can agree that Isaiah 66:1 is speaking of God the Father, and that
> Hebrews 10:10-13 is speaking of Jesus Christ the Son of God, then how can
> you possibly believe that this is talking about the same being? Can you see
> a contradiction here with oneness teachings? YES/NO
YES or NO again, I see no contradtion with the ONENESS teachings, as
the ONENESS believe them, not as you portray them. The ONENESS
beleive in God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son. Let me post here
that statement from a Oneness website, on this matter.
=========== cut and paste from the Oneness doctrine as found on the
web ===
We believe the Bible to be inspired of God; the infallible Word of
God. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable
for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in
righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16).
The Bible is the only God-given authority which man possesses;
therefore, all doctrine, faith, hope, and all instruction for the
church must be based upon, and harmonize with, the Bible. It is to be
read and studied by all men everywhere, and can only be clearly
understood by those who are anointed by the Holy Spirit (1 John
2:27)."... no prophecy of the scripture is of any private
interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of
man: but Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost"
(2 Peter 1:20, 21).
THE ONE TRUE GOD
We believe in the one ever-living, eternal God: infinite in power,
Holy in nature, attributes and purpose; and possessing absolute,
indivisible deity. This one true God has revealed Himself as Father,
through His Son, in redemption; and as the Holy Spirit, by emanation.
(1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 4:6; 2 Cor. 5:19; Joel 2:28).
The Scripture does more than attempt to prove the existence of God; it
asserts, assumes and declares that the knowledge of God is universal.
(Romans 1:19, 21, 28, 32; 2:15). God is invisible, incorporeal,
without parts, without body, and therefore free from all limitations.
He is Spirit (John 4:24), and a spirit hath not flesh and bones. (Luke
24:39).
The first of all the commandments is, hear, 0 Israel; the Lord our God
is one Lord" (Mark 12:29; Deut. 6:4). "One God and Father of all, who
is above all, and through all, and in you all" (Eph. 4:6).
This one true God manifested Himself in the Old Testament in divers
ways; in the Son while He walked among men; as the Holy Spirit after
the ascension.
THE SON OF GOD
The one true God, the Jehovah of the Old Testament, took upon Himself
the form of man, and as the Son of man, was born of the virgin Mary.
As Paul says "and without controversy great is the mystery of
Godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit,
seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world,
received up into glory" (1 Timothy 3:16).
"He came unto His own, and His own received Him not" (John 1:11). This
one true God was manifest in the flesh, that is, in His Son Jesus
Christ. ". . God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself,
not imputing their trespasses unto them. . ." (2 Cor. 5:19).
We believe that, ". . in Him (Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the
Godhead bodily" (Col. 2:9). "For it pleased the Father that in Him
should all fulness dwell" (Col. 1:19). Therefore, Jesus in His
humanity was man; in His deity was and is God. His flesh was the lamb,
or the sacrifice of God. He is the only mediator between God and man.
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man
Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5).
Jesus on His Father's side was divine, on His mother's side, human;
Thus, He was known as the Son of God and also the son of man, or the
God-man.
"For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith all
things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which
did put all things under Him" (1 Cor. 15:27). "And when all things
shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject
unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all" (1
Cor. 15:28).
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord,
which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Rev.
1:8).
THE NAME
God used different titles, such as "God Elohim," "El Shaddai,"
"Jehovah," and especially "Jehovah Lord," the redemptive name in the
Old Testament.
unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: ... and His name
shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God, The Everlasting
Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6). This prophecy of Isaiah was
fulfilled when the Son of God was named, "And she shall bring forth a
son, and thou shalt call His name Jesus: for He shall save His People
from their sins" (Matt. 1:21).
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name
under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).
======= end of cut and paste from the doctrine of the Oneness
==========
Yes/no is that the ONENESS you say you are arguing about, or are you
following some Trinity made or Jehovah Witness or cult teaching on
what they see the Oneness believe? I dare say you do not understand
what you post and have gotten your information from some off the wall
preacher that doesn't even belong to an Oneness organization that is
recognized by the government and other ministers.
Are you again going to post that I refused to answer your verses?
That would be a lie if you dare say such. Check out the verses and
reply to what is here not what you think someone believes, and quit
trying to make the other confess to what you think is oneness when it
is not. My beliefs in God and doctrine have been post over and over
again here in this newsgroup in full to people just like you. For all
can read and others can verify that if they would. So son, go and
study what you play with and learn the truth of what is, then just
sticking your foot in your mouth and acting silly in the Newsgroups.
I answered all your yes/no question and the bible is true, even if you
still need to have a yes or no to that fact.
>
> Here are a few questions:
>
> 1.The Father said in Isaiah 66:1 "earth is my footstool". YES/NO
>
> 2.The Son is still waiting "till his enemies be made his footstool".YES/NO
>
> 3.Jesus sat down on the right hand of God. YES/NO
>
> 4.Why on the right Hand. Why not sit *IN* the "Throne of God"? ???/??
>
> 5.Doesn't all the above indicate the existence of a God of more than one
> being? YES/NO
>
> Please Raymond, adress the points above if you will. You'll notice I've
> taken care to not play word games or anything else you've accused. Please
> explain the above according to the oneness beliefs. I think you made a false
> statement when you said "even if your not interested in what others say"
> because I have in the past and am now once again showing my interest in what
> you have to say. Enlighten me.
PLeas Spazzmodicus read what the Oneness do believe as I have posted
here in reply to all your questions. I sure hope the verse show more
then one being, since Jesus was born of Mary and is a being, is God a
human being? yes/no? Is God ONE GOD? YES/NO?
Are you again going to post that I refused to answer your verses?
That would be a lie if you dare say such. Check out the verses and
reply to what is here not what you think someone believes, and quit
trying to make the other confess to what you think is oneness when it
is not. My beliefs in God and doctrine have been post over and over
again here in this newsgroup in full to people just like you. For all
can read and others can verify that if they would. So son, go and
study what you play with and learn the truth of what is, then just
sticking your foot in your mouth and acting silly in the Newsgroups.
Malachi 2:10
10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we
deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the
covenant of our fathers? KJV
YES/No does it teach ONE FATHER and HE is ONE GOD?
Mark 12:32
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the
truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: KJV
YES/NO does it say ONE GOD and none other?
Romans 3:30
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by
faith, and uncircumcision through faith. KJV
Paul is saying ONE GOD YES/NO?
1 Corinthians 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things,
and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and
we by him.KJV
YES/NO There is but One God as Paul points out?
YES/NO is ther ONE LORD Jesus Christ?
Yes/No is this ONE GOD by whom are all things and we by him"
Ephesians 4:6
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in
you all.
KJV
YES/NO is the Godhead ONE GOD and through all and in you all"
YES/No do you see many persons and beings here, in ONE GOD and Father
of all?
YES/NO is ONE GOD the Father or is there more then one God?
1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man
Christ Jesus; KJV
IS JESUS a man, or is he only God YES?NO?
James 2:19
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils
also believe, and tremble. KJV
Sounds like the devils know more then you do about God and His being,
and they are smart enough to believe and tremble then make up silly
statements and deny that there is ONE GOD!
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Spazzmodicus
>
> "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a persistent one"
I suppose to you, that would seem true, and illusions part of your
confusion.
Raymond Knapp
www.pioneers-for-jesus.org
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >then you will find we have lots of links
> >and make it clear we do not endorse them, but they are their for you,
>
> What a filthy spiritual slut we find in the devilish fake
> "oneness" missionary Raymond Knapp.
A liar you are, so we can see what your statement really means. Now
all you can do is dump a text cut and paste then reply to a real
message and a real Oneness Pentecostal Jesus name Missionary and
Minister of the Full Gospel.
Matt 5:12
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven:
for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. KJV
You made my day, and I am glad you did Steve Winter, now return from
where you came.
>
> Any of you who threw away your honor, integrity and salvation to
> support Raymond Knapp feeling the least bit embarrassed yet?
Only you threw away such and only you have no intergrity or honor, so
we can see why you would be embarrassed. The Joy of the Lord is my
reward and them that toss you away, as lost and needing a saviour.
Raymond
>
> Pastor Winter
Raymond
I am not concerned as Mr. Winter can do nothing and is not able to
undo what I have done, as my work has been in Asia, and we now have
over 1,000 Churches of which I helped train the pastors and built many
buildings and a Bible seminary there. As well as other schools and
Churches in China, which are built on the foundation of Christ Jesus.
His fruit is evil and he is what the bible did bring out would be in
the Last days, and brings trouble to the true believers. Knowing that
we also know that Christ Jesus is able to take care of His own, and
nothing Winter can do, will destroy that. I have know Mr. Winter for
over 10 years now, from the time I was a SysOp and in Charge of the
node list of BBS and the Christian network of BBS in Hong Kong, back
in the 90s. Mr. Winter has not changed and his fruit is know by many,
that is one reason I do face him, and dare him to prove his lies, as
we are to cast out demons and them that bring false teachings, be it
here or in person. The Lord will set one free, if they want to. So
for the sake of the sheep we expose such to the public, and as you
know, he does a great job of proving by his own statements he is none
of the sheep that the Lord Jesus paid with his blood for. He like many
others may say LORD, Lord, and hear "I know you not."
Steve Winter
>> >then you will find we have lots of links
>> >and make it clear we do not endorse them, but they are their for you,
>>
>> What a filthy spiritual slut we find in the devilish fake
>> "oneness" missionary Raymond Knapp.
>
>A liar you are, so we can see what your statement really means.
Excuse me, but if the filthy spiritually whorish reprobate fake
missionary Raymond Knapp admits that he proudly displays links
to other false-christian sites, how am I a liar for mentioning
it?
What a filthy spiritual slut we find in the devilish fake
"oneness" missionary Raymond Knapp.
It is Raymond Knapp who is the bumbling false-christian liar
here.
Spazzmodicus
> Spazzmodicus <No_Junkmail@My_Box> wrote in message
> news:<Xns9543149B...@216.168.3.50>...
>> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) Verbalated the following
>> news:53592110.04081...@posting.google.com:
>
>>
>> > You are in false teaching, and all you do is tell others they are
>> > the one in error. So sad indeed.
>>
>> I've given you every effort to point out my error and you refuse to do
>> so. I will continue to give you the opportunity to point out my error
>> because unlike you, I feel the Truth is worthy of defence. It may not
>> mean much to you now but it's going to mean more than you can ever
>> imagine at the judgement seat when you find yourself on the wrong side
>> of the Truth, having been adequately forwarned of your foolishness.
>
> Sorry if that is all you can do for "every effort" you are in deep
> biblical trouble. I never refused to do any such thing, your
> statements are mostly insults and not worth the time to reply to.
> Simple as that. Very funny from a high point you show your pride,
> "unlike you".
Raymond, you can't even see through my act, so why should I deem
your opinion of me as being anywhere close to the truth?
> Yes that is unlike me, I address the issues not hid
> behind silly statements that you're posting here.
Plodding through exchange after exchange in an effort to provoke
a halfway serious response from you is not by any means indicative of
dealing with somebody that "address the issues". What you say is a bold-
faced lie.
> I not find myself on the wrong side, you are on the wrong side, and
> your forewarning is just plain silly to post in such a manner. God
> is able to lead you, only if you are willing to be lead.
That's obviously why you've been unwilling to hear anything I've said to
you so far.
> Till then, you are like the blind leading the blind and in the ditch
> you will go.
Oh the paradoxical irony of that statement alone.....
Yet we see a more serious response from you coming in this latest reply.
The end justifies the means. A response from you concerning your beliefs
is what was pursued and that's exactly what was achieved, despite your
incessant ranting and objections to the contrary. Your reply serves as
evidence of your falsehood, for why would you "waste valuble time" with
a more serious and detailed response if your accusations of 'silliness,
lies, error' were what you claim them to be?
>> > My belief has been explained so many times in the last ten years
>> > here and on the BBS; it would be a total waste of my time to think
>> > you are important enough to do that all over again.
I agree 100%. I'm not important in anybody's high esteem of themself.
Not only that but I am still just a sinner saved by grace, and most
grateful for the perpetual supply of the divine blood of Christ, that
permits me to speak on behalf of God. But outside of that, you're
absolutely correct: I'm not important enough to be worthy of anybody's
efforts. But the Truth *IS* worthy of defense,worthy to be heard, and
it's FOR the Truth that I stand against all opposers of the Truth and at
all costs. It's because of your own disdain and disrespect of the Truth
that you reply the way you do. If what I propose to be "Truth", is NOT
the Truth, then I will gladly admit it once evidence of the error is
provided. I'll learn from my error, and then have even more Truth in the
end. But exactly how do I or you know if what I propose, is Truth or not,
if you continually hide your version of Truth under a bushle? How am I to
know my own wrong if you refuse to show me how or where I'm wrong? And
despite the hundreds of words you've typed in this thread, you've done
very little as a "proponent of Truth"... ...yours, mine, anybody's
truth. You've stayed clearly away from Truth the entire time. Even in
your sarcasm you tell one lie after another, therefore I have, up to this
point, no reason to believe the Godly but false image you've propped up
as the "real Raymond Knapp"...of which you're presently hiding behind in
fear.
>> It's easy to flap your gums about your beliefs when there is no
>> opposition present. But I represent more than just mere opposition. I
>> represent the Truth. If you wish to take that title away from me by
>> telling the Truth then you're more than free to do so but until then,
>> I proclaim you to be a liar and a cheat. You can't be honest in this
>> anonymous form of communication, much less anywhere else. That's a
>> scary thought when one thinks you may be behind a pulpit at times.
>
> Yes it is easy talk, and then it seems you are a child without teeth
> or so old you would use such a statement as "flap your gums". So it
> is no wonder you have difficulty with what is truth and what is not.
I have a sense of humor. Even "He that sitteth in the heavens" has a
sense of humor. You seem to be the only grumpy old man in this
conversation. Maybe if you loaded those flapping gums with a set of teeth
in order to give your words some "bite", then I might think differently.
But as it stands, you're just gnashing with your gums. But that's OK
Raymond. Unless you change your ways, the place where you're going will
"provide" teeth for all the ensuing gnashing if you arrive with only
'gums' in your mouth.
> You present just your own mere opposition and not the truth, more like
> pure pride in ignorant statements. Then only a demon would be worried
> about me being behind a pulpit, which does tell the reader a lot about
> you and your make-believe teachings.
Um....Hellooooooo? Anybody home? Opposition to falsehood is more than
likely the effect of Truth in action, not necessarily "more falsehood".
If it were not Truth that I was presenting, then you and I would probably
be the best of friends right now. But that's not the case. I have been on
the "offensive" and you've been on something else. I wouldn't at all call
your replies as "defensive" but you've been on something or another.
Concerning being "worried about me being behind a pulpit", it's not you
that I worry for naturally, but rather for those poor folks in the
congregation over whom you precide. I have a genuine concern for all and
that includes you Raymond. It's not for any other reason that I contend
with you, that you may come to know the Truth.
>> > Drop by our website and read them, I got better things to do with my
>> > time then to rehash again what the Bible teachings are and the Truth
>> > of a real bible study would bring out.
>>
>> Suonds like a very sincere leader of God's children. A true pastor
>> always puts God, His Word and God's children first. You're living unto
>> yourself and serving only yuorself. And as far as your website is
>> concerned, my 12 year old daughter could build a better site than
>> that.
>
> So now you are the judge also, I am living unto yourself is very
> funny, since I have lived for others most of my life, and built and
> trained more ministers, pastors then you have know personally in all
> your life.
If that were the Truth then you're attitude would reflect it. The Truth
of the matter is that *GOD DID THE WORK*. I don't at all doubt that many
good things has been done through you despite your being a "poor
example". Just more proof that God is a merciful and gracious God.
If he can cause manna to fall from the sky to feed a hungry people then
He can surely take care of his flock through a crackpot like you. And
even though you've got your theory of the "composition of God" all out
of whack, God still respects the Name of *Jesus Christ* enough forgive
the error, for His Name's sake. So don't be misled by the Spirit of God
that may flow, or the works that God chooses to do. Know this. It has
nothing to do with 'Raymond Knapp" and *everything* to do with the glory
of God. Yet, in all your 'integrity before God', you see no fault in
taking credit for what God has done in your past. Just as I've said of
you before: you are by no means a man made humble by 40 years service to
Christ. You've not served Christ yet. You've served a false God.
And while the congregations can indeed love Christ without loving the
false God you yourself embrace, it is you whom will be judged by them.
It is "Christ" whom they accept, but it is Christ you reject, because of
your own perverse love of a false God. Such is the way of oneness
ministers. Granted there are oneness ministers whom know Christ but only
because it's their choice to "know Christ" rather than espouse a
particular doctrine, over Christ Himself. You hold yourself high above
your works and congregations, yet it's all that you have ministered to in
the past that now needs to be ministering to you. One of the most
telltale signs of those whom are 'prisoners of deceit' is a noticeable
lack of the Love of God in their words and actions. Even a small one of
Christ with little knowledge in God can regognize that "something just
ain't right" when encountering the barking and howling of this groups'
rabid dog.(Steve Winter) So when somebody like yourself comes out
speaking as though they're a man of God while bellowing out pride and a
total lack of Love for anybody but themself, then it's not difficlt to
discern. But here's the difference Raymond. I have no problem whatsoever
saying at this moment, before God as my witness, that in Christ, I love
you Raymond. It truly pains me to see you fight as you do. I'm here to
help you. You simply must trust me when I say this Raymond, and that is,
"you're blinded by deceit". You cannot possibly see or hear what I say
as "Truth". But it is all important for you right now to seek God, to
seek the Truth of the matter. It is no accident or coincidence that you
and I are conversing at this time and in this way. I don't know why.
Perhaps God has saw fit to give you one last opportunity to choose Him
before He takes you home, or wherever you choose to end up. Don't be so
proud and foolish to think you'll just ignore all this and it'll go away.
Seek God with everything you have within you to seek Him with. And that
includes considering the possiblity that you've been wrong about the
Godhead all these years. Take it to God in prayer, because you may not
have another opportunity after you walk away from this conversation.
I don't say that as a scare tactic, but only because it's the Truth.
> Then let your 12 year old daughter do so, and if her pride
> is any worse then yours, well that would be interesting. My website
> is for the Honor and glory of the Lord Jesus Christ and If your 12
> year old could do better let her do so and give us the web address so
> all can see, if you all "hot air" or just like lying.
Yeah, sure. Whatever.
>> > God has been blessing over the weekend and everyone that was prayed
>> > for said they felt a healing, pain gone, joy and a thankful heart to
>> > the Lord Jesus was all I needed to know, what I do preach and do, is
>> > blessed by God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ is well pleased
>> > with me, and I am so proud of Jesus and the Joy that God gives to
>> > them that love him. I hope someday you will get out of your little
>> > man made whole, and find the reality in Christ Jesus.
>>
>> I've found him my friend. He's the same one you're running away from
>> in your delusions.
>
<SNIPPAGE OF NEAR INCOHERENT RAMBLING
>What is my delusions? That I love Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour?
If this were true, then you would love me too, but because it's not
true, you oppose me. Don't forget that you invited yourself into a
conversation that had nothing to do with you, in opposition to what I
said about the falseness of 'oneness'. Allow me to refresh your memory
of you love-filled entrance that is so indicative of the love of Christ
reigning in your life(not!) You're response was originally in the thread
"It is time to stop playing games" and then you carried that animosity
over to this current thread:
=======================================
> Oh please do you just go around patting each other on the back with
> that is right and well done? Just as silly as it sounds. The Bible
> does not show God as a "person" let along three. Jesus as the son of
> man, born in the flesh, is the only time person is implied here. God
> is ONE God, not more or less. You both see what you want, and dismiss
> what you do not want, and then put your own words into the verse as if
> it said what it did not say.
=========================================
From that point on it became a game called "Where In The World Is Raymond
Knapp". You jumped here, there and everywhere in an effort to not be
pinned down by the Truth, or quoted scripture.
>> >> > If one is not interested in a response, it is strange that you
>> >> > post at all. So we again can see your not humble in any meaning
>> >> > of that word, and could care less about truth, only your own
>> >> > handle on what you think is truth, even if your not interested in
>> >> > what others say, as long as your remarks are read, that is pure
>> >> > pride and a foul distinctive odor that is offensively unpleasant
>> >> > that reaches God.
>> >>
>> >> And it's strange that you say certain words and phrases *ONLY*
>> >> after somebody has first accused you of them. Humble, snipping,
>> >> foul distinctive odor? Not in any of your previous posts. Hmmm? As
>> >> far as being interested in Truth. Come. Join me Raymond. Let us
>> >> ascertain the interpretations of scriptures together, shall we?
>> >
>> > I will not join or be joinned with ones in unbelief, the Bible
>> > teaches that. Do you need the verse?
>>
>> No. I need you to respond to the points I made. I'll repaste them
>> everytime you delete them. If you want 2000 message out there that
>> shows Raymond Knapp avoided scriptures that were in direct
>> contradiction to his beliefs then so be it.
>
> You post all you like, I will answer what I like and cut the rest out
> so the readers can find the reply then have to keep reading and
> reading what was already posted over and over again. Your pride is
> great it is no wonder you think your points are important, when they
> are not, since they are not biblical in teachings, only verses out of
> context and your strange interpretations of them.
Well then, it should've been no problem for you to make mincemeat of
them then but you avoided with a lame excuse just as you are now.
It was *unrefuted scriptures* that you deleted every time.
> I have not seen any verse that contradicted my beliefs, so you lie
> again.
If you'd take your crooked finger off that delete key then you'd see
plenty of scriptures.
> Now you think you can tell me what I believe and go into some kind of
> teacher mode to correct your own ideas which are false to start with.
No. It is you whom are into the "modes" thing. Whatever I say, I say
through the Spirit of God, so it is He you argue with not me. I'm just a
simple earthen vessel just like you.
> My beliefs are on my website so all the world can see and read and
> know.
Well hidden in all the mess no doubt.
> Where is your open and public website that does the same? I do not
> avoid scriptures I teach them. Again what beliefs do you think you are
> contradicting by your silly statements? I have found no verse or
> verses that would contradict what I do believe, not what you evil mind
> thinks I believe that is between you and you.
You've "found no verses" because you're not looking for them or the
Truth, nor do you want to see the 'condemning' verses when presented by
somebody else.
=======================================================================
>> ==== Deleted by Raymond one time so far:
>>
=======================================================================
>> ====
>
> Nope they are in the bible and I never delete a bible verse, what I do
> is delete your false understanding of a verse that you take out of
> context and try to make it read what it does not say, when used in the
> section of the Bible it was posted in.
This is itself a lie. You've deleted many scriptures. Now that you've
been backed into a corner, you've auto-switched into "never did wrong"
mode. You mode-switching oneness folks are amazing.
>> Isaiah 66:1
>> 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my
>> footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the
>> place of my rest?
>>
>> Can you agree with me Raymond that Isaiah 66:1 is concerning 'God the
>> Father'? YES/NO
>
> So you like to limit to a yes and no.
No. That's just my willingness to accept even the smallest response from
you since up to that point, you were skirting the issues, ......as in
running away in the opposite direction with your skirt up over your head.
> Not very intelligent way of getting to the truth of the matter is it?
And now you seek to draw attention away from the Truth. How sad.
> For one thing God not called "God the Father" in the OT, So YES God is
> the Father and the Father is asking a question, then really this is
> what it says "Thus saith the LORD" not God the Father as you need it to
> say.
God *IS NOT* the Father. Show me anywhere in the Bible Raymond where it
says "God" is the Father", not "god the Father" but rather "God IS the
Father" You disqualify my question on the basis of incorrect terminology
but then submit your own logical falacy as a suitable replacement. But
unlike your problem, mine is fixable so I'll restate the question with
the 'false' error you pointed to being repaired:
Can you agree with me Raymond that Isaiah 66:1 is concerning
'the Father'? YES/NO
OK Raymond. Now you can answer the question, right?
<SNIP RAYMOND'S SELF-JUSTIFYING EVASIVE RESPONSE>
>> Hebrews 10:10-13
>> 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the
>> body of Jesus Christ once for all.
>> 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes
>> the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
>> 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,
>> sat down on the right hand of God;
>> 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
>>
>> Can you agree with me Raymond that Paul is speaking in reference to
>> Jesus Christ, especially since in verse 10 it names "Jesus Christ" by
>> name? YES/NO
>
> Again a yes/no are not going to cover this. As anyone can see, then
> maybe your blind by your doctrine in verse 10 it says "body of Jesus
> Christ" so why play with your yes/no, when it says Jesus Christ
> without your silly yes or no statements?
Again, it was in an effort to elicit a definite affirmitive or negative
answer from you while also alluding to the rediculous extremes of which I
was having to go just to get any kind of answer from you. And once again,
you've sought to make "that" the issue instead of the real issue: your
evasiveness.
> I know for sure Paul is writing about JESUS Christ his earthy human
> body, as Jesus is both God and Man, Son of God, Son of man. Which it
> seems you just cut out his humanity by your yes/no statement.
Nope. I just want to know whether or not you'll admit that Jesus Christ
died on the cross or not, and that it was Jesus Christ whom sat down on
the right hand of God? Yes or No? Was it Jesus Christ who died on the
cross and who also sat on the right hand of God?
> Jesus is at the right hand of God, no question to it. Then again you
> do not know what I believe, you just make that up, so to post some
> more. Do you understand the meaning of "right hand" as found in the
> bible? Be nice to look it up and read the foot notes or references
> meanings of such terms.
If that's what you prescribe then that's plenty enough warning for me.
Commentaries are good but I've found errors numberous at times in the
interpretations. The Word of God is it's own best reference:
===================================
Acts 7:55-56
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into
heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of
God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man
standing on the right hand of God.
===
No where in these scriptures is there any indication that Stephen saw a
vision a dream or anything other than what it states. Don't forget that
verses 55 and 56 constitutes the witness of two people. Verse 55 is
Paul's account of what happened, since he was there, and verse 56 was
what Stephen himself said. He was there too. He saw not two modes or
offices but Jesus standing on the right hand of God. Paul, by inspiration
of the Spirit of God, reprted that Stephen saw the "Son of man" standing
on the right hand of God, which was a title that Christ Himself used.
Now, where this some sort of vision, dream or apparition then Paul
would've clarified it as such. But he didn't because that was not the
case. How many witnesses do we have of this even then? Paul, Stephen, and
the fact that's it's written in the Bible allows us to call as a witness
the 'Word of God'.
Matthew 18:16
......that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be
established.
====================================
Matthew 20:23
23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be
baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right
hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them
for whom it is prepared of my Father.
===
Jesus speaks of sitting not only on the right hand but also the left. If
what you implied about the "meaning of the right hand of God" were true,
then why would Christ mention sitting "on my left" as a favorable thing,
and we know it is a favorable thing because He specified "give", which
itself implies "gift".
Christ accepted nails into His hands as He was hung on the cross. Are you
going to say that this was a metaphor or symbolic?...that Christ didn't
really take a nail in His right or left hand?...that it was symbolic?
We know this is not true because of what He said to Thomas:
John 20:27
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands;
and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not
faithless, but believing.
When parables were spoken in the Gospels, it was always prefaced in most
cases as a "parable" first. God is not the author of confusion but of
peace. To lump all "right hand" scripture into a single lump and say God
was speaking in metaphoric terms in all of them, is to pervert the Word
of God. As I said in the past Raymond, you simply cannnot use scripture
to prove your doctrine. Thus you must resort to the error and whims of
man by referring to commentaries in an escapist ploy.
But unless you can prove with scripture that your version is correct,
I have adequately proven that Christ is sitting externally on the right
hand of God. The Son sitting externally on the right hand of the Father.
Do you agree with this assessment? Yes? or No?
====================================
> I sure as Paul did and I do, we believe Jesus is LORD, God and
> Son of man, as well as Son of God, the God man, the fullness of
> the Godhead dwelling in Christ Jesus. When one has Jesus they have
> the Father, Son and Holy Ghost/Spirit.
Do you believe Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father, whom Himself
was never begotten? Yes? or No?
> There is only ONE GOD is that correct? Then to play as you do, say
> YES/NO only if you can.
YES!
Of course there is only ONE GOD and your question also reveals that you
are guilty of what you accused me of, of "not knowing what I think about
God", who or what He is:
God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. These are not three Gods
or dieties, but rather three parts of a whole. You cannot say 1/3 of an
apple is a "whole" apple, nor can you say an apple divided into three
parts is the equivalent of three apples. According to your theory, you
cannot take and apple, slice and dice it, stuff it into an orange peel
and then call it an orange, nor can you call it an apple. Just as this
little math lesson accuarately depicts, I serve a whole God composed of
three parts, Father, Son and Holy Ghost,...while you serve a *manmade*
fruit.
>> If you can agree that Isaiah 66:1 is speaking of God the Father, and
>> that Hebrews 10:10-13 is speaking of Jesus Christ the Son of God, then
>> how can you possibly believe that this is talking about the same
>> being? Can you see a contradiction here with oneness teachings? YES/NO
>
> YES or NO again, I see no contradtion with the ONENESS teachings, as
> the ONENESS believe them, not as you portray them. The ONENESS
> beleive in God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son. Let me post here
> that statement from a Oneness website, on this matter.
>
> =========== cut and paste from the Oneness doctrine as found on the
I've alread shown two oneness documents submitted by Tan Ya to be false
and I'll do the same for you Raymond. The Truth is worthy of defence:
<SNIPPED WHAT APPARENTLY CONCURS WITH TRINITARIANISM>
> THE ONE TRUE GOD
> We believe in the one ever-living, eternal God: infinite in power,
> Holy in nature, attributes and purpose; and possessing absolute,
> indivisible deity. This one true God has revealed Himself as Father,
> through His Son, in redemption; and as the Holy Spirit, by emanation.
> (1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 4:6; 2 Cor. 5:19; Joel 2:28).
WHOA! Hold it right there Kemosabe. Here's more vague scripture
references that give's the appearance of dilligent study. With that
ammount of references, who could possibly question the validity of
this document, or would even want to? This document is made for quick
consumption in the hopes that one WILL NOT look up the scriptures and
see the sloppy deductions, falacies and outright lies that are pravelent
in all oneness teachings. Let's look at 1 Cor. 8:6.
=================================
1 Corinthians 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and
we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by
him.
======
All things *ARE OF* the Father, but *ARE BY* the Son. To say this is a
single being is a lie. The Father is the source, and 'all things' are
*OF*(from) Him, while the Son is the the mediator and 'all things' are
*BY* Him. The Father is the cause, and the Son is the effect, and to say
they are at any time 'one being' rather than 'two beings is to say that
"one being" is both source and mediator, cause and effect. This is only
true in the case of the trinitarian God, not a oneness god.
Next scripture reference: Eph. 4:6
=================================
Ephesians 4:1-6
4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk
worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one
another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of
your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in
you all.
=====
Paul qualifies verse 6 by pleading with "the saints" in verse 1 above,
that they "walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called". He then
describes "how to walk in a worthy manner" in verse 2.
In verse 3 we see the point of this whole message: "to keep the unity of
the Spirit". This was instruction to the saints in "how to walk in a holy
manner", not instruction in "how to indoctrinate the world". "Unity of
the Spirit" doesn't even exist for those whom can't even agree as to
"who" or "what" God is, so we know these instructions aren't meant for
"the world". And for a certain group of saints as these who lived among
many that served and sacrificed unto idols, it was necessary instruction.
Such is the transmogrification of the scriptures by the oneness
deceivers.
Next scripture reference:2 Cor. 5:19
===================================
2 Corinthians 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,
not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the
word of reconciliation.
========
This is a no brainer and a week attempt to allude to the 'oneness' god.
God was indeed in Christ. God consisting of Father, Son, Holy Ghost.
Jesus Christ the man, was a man of sinless flesh, but within the human
'Jesus' who walked the earth was the divine Son of God. We know the Holy
Ghost descended upon Him just after being baptized, and He Himself said
"The Father is in me". So what? That is still not the same as saying the
entirety of the Father was inside the Son. That is an impossiblity
because Christ Himself said that the Father was greater than He:
John 14:28
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you.
If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father:
for my Father is greater than I.
How can that which is greater reside in it's entirety, within that which
is lesser?
Just so there's no confusion in this interpretation, let's look at
another scripture:
John 10:28-29
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is
able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
It's quite clear that we're not talking about a single being with
diifferent offices. For one is greater than the other and they each have
their own "hand".
You can spare me your watered down interpretations on the meanings of
"hands" Raymond. There are indeed such references as you suggest, but
what applies to one or a few scriptures does not mechanically apply to
all scriptures, otherwise we would not need the Spirit of God for
interpretation.
======================================
Next scripture reference:Joel 2:28
=====================================
Joel 2:27-28
27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the
LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit
upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old
men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
========
I've included verse 27 as well because I think citing verse 28 must have
been an error.
Still this reference is a bit vague. Who else was "the LORD your God, and
none else"...but the Lord God? Doesn't even move me to speak in terms of
addressing oneness beliefs.
=========================
Next scripture reference:
=========================
========
=========================
==================================
> The Scripture does more than attempt to prove the existence of God; it
> asserts, assumes and declares that the knowledge of God is universal.
> (Romans 1:19, 21, 28, 32; 2:15). God is invisible, incorporeal,
> without parts, without body, and therefore free from all limitations.
> He is Spirit (John 4:24), and a spirit hath not flesh and bones. (Luke
> 24:39).
We see more vague scripture references but a great lack of explanations
of these scriptures. Wonder why? But to make such a broad statement such
as "without body" is pretty lame. What about the "body of Christ"?
> The first of all the commandments is, hear, 0 Israel; the Lord our God
> is one Lord" (Mark 12:29; Deut. 6:4). "One God and Father of all, who
> is above all, and through all, and in you all" (Eph. 4:6).
Yeah....in *ALL* whom dwell the unity of the Spirit.
> This one true God manifested Himself in the Old Testament in divers
> ways; in the Son while He walked among men; as the Holy Spirit after
> the ascension.
This is false, false, false.
Hebrews 10:12-13
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,
sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
The creep in this document falsely states Christ walked on earth "as the
Holy Spirit after the ascension". We know this isn't true because
according to Hebrews 10:12-13 above, "this man" is presently still in a
state of rest sitting on the right hand of God. It was the Holy Ghost
whom was upon the earth after Christ's ascension just like the scriptures
said.
> THE SON OF GOD
> The one true God, the Jehovah of the Old Testament, took upon Himself
> the form of man,
This dude can't can't anything straight. Do you oneness people really
want to follow jokers like this? And I do mean "Jokers"?
Philippians 2:7
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a
servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
He took on the form of a *SERVANT*. Why did Mr. Creepy decide to *CHANGE
THE WORD OF GOD*???? Because "taking on the form of a servant" was
contradictory to the 'Fatherly' image of Christ he wishes to portray.
This is who is leading you folks. People whom twist and tear and rend the
Word of God hoping somebody will go for it. They're special vessels given
over wholy unto demonic purposes. Are you sure that you still want their
reward? Have at it, but don't tell God you weren't warned!
> and as the Son of man, was born of the virgin Mary.
> As Paul says "and without controversy great is the mystery of
> Godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit,
> seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world,
> received up into glory" (1 Timothy 3:16).
Wow that was some fancy pasting of scripture there but is completely
irrelevant to the topic at hand. In fact I can past off-topic scripture
that can be relevant at the same time:
John 11:35
35 Jesus wept.
Tell me Jesus isn't weeping over what is occuring to His Word and Truth
at the hands of oneness deceivers.
> "He came unto His own, and His own received Him not" (John 1:11). This
> one true God was manifest in the flesh, that is, in His Son Jesus
> Christ. ". . God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself,
> not imputing their trespasses unto them. . ." (2 Cor. 5:19).
So what. I've already addressed this fact. Father Son and Holy Ghost was
in Christ in form but not in entirety. Allude, allude, allude.
<SNIPPED MORE OF THE SAME>
> THE NAME
>
> God used different titles, such as "God Elohim," "El Shaddai,"
> "Jehovah," and especially "Jehovah Lord," the redemptive name in the
> Old Testament.
That statement alone says it all. To know what the scriptures says about
the *NAME OF GOD*, and then to quickly reduce that down to mere "titles"
shows a true irreverence for God and His Holy Name.What else would one
expect from a deceiver?
> unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: ... and His name
> shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God, The Everlasting
> Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6). This prophecy of Isaiah was
> fulfilled when the Son of God was named, "And she shall bring forth a
> son, and thou shalt call His name Jesus: for He shall save His People
> from their sins" (Matt. 1:21).
Scriptural Ignorance 101: "This prophecy of Isaiah was fulfilled when the
Son of God was named"
The Son of God was NOT originated by Mary. The Son of God was born by the
*FATHER* before this world even existed. Study your Bible. Why is he
called the "Only Begotten Son? He wasn't Mary's only son.
Also, unto *US*(not Mary), a child is born....unto *US*(not Mary) a son
is given. Concerning the lineage of Jesus. It was so-and-so begat
so-and-so, but when it got to "Jesus" the 'begat' ceased:
Matthew 1:16
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus,
who is called Christ
This is the only place in the Bible that this "of whom was born" occurs,
because Jesus was born "of" Mary, not unto Mary.
> "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name
> under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).
OH...after He reduces the "Name" of God to a mere title earlier, THEN he
wants to claim some sort of right to it later. What a hypocrite.
>
> ======= end of cut and paste from the doctrine of the Oneness
> ==========
>
> Yes/no is that the ONENESS you say you are arguing about, or are you
> following some Trinity made or Jehovah Witness or cult teaching on
> what they see the Oneness believe? I dare say you do not understand
> what you post and have gotten your information from some off the wall
> preacher that doesn't even belong to an Oneness organization that is
> recognized by the government and other ministers.
I've adequately addressed your points. Now you play fair and address
mine.
> Are you again going to post that I refused to answer your verses?
You've played games with them, and tried to explain your way around them.
> That would be a lie if you dare say such. Check out the verses and
> reply to what is here not what you think someone believes, and quit
> trying to make the other confess to what you think is oneness when it
> is not. My beliefs in God and doctrine have been post over and over
> again here in this newsgroup in full to people just like you. For all
> can read and others can verify that if they would. So son, go and
> study what you play with and learn the truth of what is, then just
> sticking your foot in your mouth and acting silly in the Newsgroups.
Sounds great Raymond but it's the same old flatulatory emissions that
you've...um....emitted before. I've refuted all here. Show me where
I'm wrong with sound scriptural references and doctrine.
> I answered all your yes/no question and the bible is true, even if you
> still need to have a yes or no to that fact.
Not quite. Try again.
>> Here are a few questions:
>>
>> 1.The Father said in Isaiah 66:1 "earth is my footstool". YES/NO
>>
>> 2.The Son is still waiting "till his enemies be made his
>> footstool".YES/NO
>>
>> 3.Jesus sat down on the right hand of God. YES/NO
>>
>> 4.Why on the right Hand. Why not sit *IN* the "Throne of God"? ???/??
>>
>> 5.Doesn't all the above indicate the existence of a God of more than
>> one being? YES/NO
>>
>> Please Raymond, adress the points above if you will. You'll notice
>> I've taken care to not play word games or anything else you've
>> accused. Please explain the above according to the oneness beliefs. I
>> think you made a false statement when you said "even if your not
>> interested in what others say" because I have in the past and am now
>> once again showing my interest in what you have to say. Enlighten me.
>
> PLeas Spazzmodicus read what the Oneness do believe as I have posted
> here in reply to all your questions. I sure hope the verse show more
> then one being, since Jesus was born of Mary and is a being, is God a
> human being? yes/no? Is God ONE GOD? YES/NO?
I've already address that above. Answer the 5 questions you just evaded.
Here, I'll paste them again for you:
===============================================================
1.The Father said in Isaiah 66:1 "earth is my footstool". YES/NO
2.The Son is still waiting "till his enemies be made his
footstool".YES/NO
3.Jesus sat down on the right hand of God. YES/NO
4.Why on the right Hand. Why not sit *IN* the "Throne of God"? ???/??
5.Doesn't all the above indicate the existence of a God of more than
one being? YES/NO
=================================================================
<SNIPPED RAYMONDS WHINING>
> 10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we
> deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the
> covenant of our fathers? KJV
>
> YES/No does it teach ONE FATHER and HE is ONE GOD?
NO. You're inferring that the "one father" is the "one God" in that
scripture. It doesn't state that at all. You're reading into it.
> Mark 12:32
> 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the
> truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: KJV
>
> YES/NO does it say ONE GOD and none other?
YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
> Romans 3:30
> 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by
> faith, and uncircumcision through faith. KJV
>
> Paul is saying ONE GOD YES/NO?
YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
> 1 Corinthians 8:6
> 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things,
> and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and
> we by him.KJV
>
> YES/NO There is but One God as Paul points out?
YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
> YES/NO is ther ONE LORD Jesus Christ?
YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
> Yes/No is this ONE GOD by whom are all things and we by him"
YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
> Ephesians 4:6
> 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in
> you all.
> KJV
>
> YES/NO is the Godhead ONE GOD and through all and in you all"
No. You are inferring again. Only "one God" and one "Father of all".
You added "godhead".
> YES/No do you see many persons and beings here, in ONE GOD and Father
> of all?
Yes - I see three beings in "one God"
> YES/NO is ONE GOD the Father or is there more then one God?
No - You added "one" to "God, the Father". "God, the Father" is a
perfectly acceptable term.
> 1 Timothy 2:5
> 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man
> Christ Jesus; KJV
>
> IS JESUS a man, or is he only God YES?NO?
Jesus Christ is a man according to that scripture.
The Son will not separate from the Father and vice-versa, therefore
your question of His being "God" is invalid
> James 2:19
> 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils
> also believe, and tremble. KJV
>
> Sounds like the devils know more then you do about God and His being,
> and they are smart enough to believe and tremble then make up silly
> statements and deny that there is ONE GOD!
There is indeed only One God. I have no disagreement with you there
Raymond. But the one God is comprised of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
>> "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a persistent one"
>
> I suppose to you, that would seem true, and illusions part of your
> confusion.
That was a quote by Einstien. A Jewish Christian. A real one.
--
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >> >then you will find we have lots of links
> >> >and make it clear we do not endorse them, but they are their for you,
> >>
> >> What a filthy spiritual slut we find in the devilish fake
> >> "oneness" missionary Raymond Knapp.
> >
> >A liar you are, so we can see what your statement really means.
>
> Excuse me, but if the filthy spiritually whorish reprobate fake
> missionary Raymond Knapp admits that he proudly displays links
> to other false-christian sites, how am I a liar for mentioning
> it?
Wow, that is a mouth full, and then a liar you are so it is clear why
you would post in such an uncouth and filthy way. I am proud of
Jesus and that He can save them that come to Him. With out the
intervention of the likes of Mr. Winter. I have links to Apostolic
and the UPC and Apostolic World Christian Fellowship, which is made up
of over a Hundred oneness church groups and which you belong to none
of them. Then to you anyone that is not in your little group is seen
as a "False-christian" no matter who they are. So with that in mind,
you are just what you are a liar and a deceiver.
Than I said it before and many have come, and tell me by email they
really like what God is doing in China and the growth of souls saved
in Jesus Name. So lie on, it is about all you know how to do, and
even then you do it poorly.
>
> What a filthy spiritual slut we find in the devilish fake
> "oneness" missionary Raymond Knapp.
>
> It is Raymond Knapp who is the bumbling false-christian liar
> here.
Still using juvenial gutter language it would seem, you just proved
what I said was true, and do not even understand that you did so. God
have mercy on your soul, as the one you do serve such will not.
Pastor in Christ Jesus,
Raymond Knapp
www.pioneers-for-jesus.org
>
> Pastor Winter
Steve Winter
>> Excuse me, but if the filthy spiritually whorish reprobate fake
>> missionary Raymond Knapp admits that he proudly displays links
>> to other false-christian sites, how am I a liar for mentioning
>> it?
>
>Wow, that is a mouth full, and then a liar you are so it is clear why
>you would post in such an uncouth and filthy way.
I thought the point here was what a liar and spiritual whore
Raymond Knapp is.
If the filthy spiritually whorish reprobate fake missionary
Raymond Knapp admits that he proudly displays links to other
false-christian sites, how am I a liar for mentioning it?
No, reprobate Knapp, I guess you just couldn't help lying again,
eh? (Ray says he only lies when he can't help it.)
You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
Knapp.
Raymond Knapp is a reprobate spiritual slut trying to put himself
over as "Oneness missionary".
Some of his email harassment and behaviour is documented at
http://www.impsmail.org/knapp.html in case anyone is inclined
to take him seriously.
Can you say "communist sympathizer", Mr. Knapp? Of COURSE the
communists leave you alone, Mr. Knapp, you are their bubba.
Again, if the filthy spiritually whorish reprobate fake
missionary Raymond Knapp admits that he proudly displays links to
other false-christian sites, how am I a liar for mentioning it?
Pastor sTeve Winter
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
> >
> >Wow, that is a mouth full, and then a liar you are so it is clear why
> >you would post in such an uncouth and filthy way.
>
> I thought the point here was what a liar and spiritual whore
> Raymond Knapp is.
No the point here is you are a liar, and all the above points to yours
trutly.
>
> If the filthy spiritually whorish
That is the point, there is no "IF" and the rest is only from your
sinful heart and evil fithy mouth, the demons seem to rejoice when
your on the web.
> Raymond Knapp admits that he proudly displays links to other
> false-christian sites, how am I a liar for mentioning it?
Only in your mind as all that are not with you are all false even your
website shows that. To you the world is all false and the only
Chrisitan there could be is they that accept the teachings of the
reprobate Steve Winter.
>
> No, reprobate Knapp, I guess you just couldn't help lying again,
> eh? (Ray says he only lies when he can't help it.)
Those that make any sense to anyone? So I am always telling the
truth, would be what you just said. Making you a liar, if the above is
what you think. Open you eyes and learn what words and meanings are,
this is silly.
>
> You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
> Knapp.
I am on record in believeing in Jesus name baptist and acts 2:38 as
others have pointed out to you before. So again you prove you are
lying, and you can not stop it. You sure don't need my help, your
doing just great at proving my points. Thank You.
>
> Again, if the filthy spiritually whorish reprobate fake
Steve winter seems to like putting himself first no waiting for such
names with
> other false-christian sites, how am I a liar for mentioning it?
>
> Pastor sTeve Winter
Enjoy readers, and pray for Steve with the little "s" finds the Big
"S" in Saviour, Salvation and not in the "S" of Satan.
May God have mercy on your soul.
In the Love of Jesus,
Raymond
Raymond
Just the main points so not to waste the time of others who may stop
to read this.
> > Till then, you are like the blind leading the blind and in the ditch
> > you will go.
>
> Oh the paradoxical irony of that statement alone.....
>
> Yet we see a more serious response from you coming in this latest reply.
> The end justifies the means. A response from you concerning your beliefs
> is what was pursued and that's exactly what was achieved, despite your
> incessant ranting and objections to the contrary. Your reply serves as
> evidence of your falsehood, for why would you "waste valuble time" with
> a more serious and detailed response if your accusations of 'silliness,
> lies, error' were what you claim them to be?
There been no incessant ranting on my part, which was all your doing,
and you did get what you asked for, then instead of being a man, you
act like a child in this post. My reply was truthful; your reply is
that which is full of falsehoods. I prove my point, answered your
silly questions, and back my points up with documented evidence from
the websites that you never took the time to read, before going nuts
and posting like a lunatic.
snip
>
> > Then let your 12 year old daughter do so, and if her pride
> > is any worse then yours, well that would be interesting. My website
> > is for the Honor and glory of the Lord Jesus Christ and If your 12
> > year old could do better let her do so and give us the web address so
> > all can see, if you all "hot air" or just like lying.
>
> Yeah, sure. Whatever.
What happen after the long insulting mode you ran out of steam, then I
did not see anything to reply to so like this I cut you out.
> >
> <SNIPPAGE OF NEAR INCOHERENT RAMBLING
So nice of you to add to the snip I put in, and show us your no
better, and not only will snip but insult at the same time, and you
call yourself a believer. I can see by your "ACT" just who and what
you are.
>
> >What is my delusions? That I love Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour?
>
> If this were true, then you would love me too, but because it's not
> true, you oppose me. Don't forget that you invited yourself into a
> conversation that had nothing to do with you, in opposition to what I
> said about the falseness of 'oneness'. Allow me to refresh your memory
> of you love-filled entrance that is so indicative of the love of Christ
> reigning in your life(not!) You're response was originally in the thread
> "It is time to stop playing games" and then you carried that animosity
> over to this current thread:
I do not love them that lie and do evil and mock the truths of God, so
there is no love between you and me, and I would have no problem with
the Lord saying to you, "I never knew you" showing He has no love for
the likes of you either. So when are you going to STOP PLAYING
GAMES???? The animosity is from your lips. I see you did not reply to
the YES/NO questions I asked but was happy to make a big thing, that I
did not, and when I did, you just play a game like a child and hide
from any reply that could bring some sense to your madness.
> >
> > You post all you like, I will answer what I like and cut the rest out
> > so the readers can find the reply then have to keep reading and
> > reading what was already posted over and over again. Your pride is
> > great it is no wonder you think your points are important, when they
> > are not, since they are not biblical in teachings, only verses out of
> > context and your strange interpretations of them.
>
> Well then, it should've been no problem for you to make mincemeat of
> them then but you avoided with a lame excuse just as you are now.
> It was *unrefuted scriptures* that you deleted every time.
I did make "mincemeat" out of your statements, ran over them and
tossed them out to the dogs, and did a real good job at it, so all you
can do is make up silly remarks. "unrefuted scriptures" the bible is
true, your silly remarks and adding to what was good verses is and has
been refuted time after time.
>
>
> > I have not seen any verse that contradicted my beliefs, so you lie
> > again.
>
> If you'd take your crooked finger off that delete key then you'd see
> plenty of scriptures.
My fingers are fine and they point at your errors, and there would be
the crooked teachings of yours that my finger does point to and I also
provided lots of Good truthful scriptures to back up my statements.
Which it seems you cut all out, and you call me names, ha, very funny
indeed.
>
> > Now you think you can tell me what I believe and go into some kind of
> > teacher mode to correct your own ideas which are false to start with.
>
> No. It is you whom are into the "modes" thing. Whatever I say, I say
> through the Spirit of God, so it is He you argue with not me. I'm just a
> simple earthen vessel just like you.
You have never once heard or read any where, where I ever even used
the term
"Modes" it seems when you have to face the facts, and I posted my
teaching right from the website, word of word and not a one said
"modes". What ever you say is a lie and if your spirit is of your
god, your god is not the Almighty God who shown Himself in the Lord
JESUS CHRIST. Your words are false as your statement on what you again
say I believe, when I showed all here that are reading what I DO
BELIEVE. It did not fit your delusional so you just made it up, and
say I believe such which I never confessed I did. Showing you is a
deceiver and give out misinformation so the truth may not be know.
> > My beliefs are on my website so all the world can see and read and
> > know.
>
> Well hidden in all the mess no doubt.
Nope, posted here, and only a page in my "History" are, I believe two
pages on most screens would do it. Then newsletter after newsletter,
with lots of pictures and statements, over and over again of what I do
believe. It seems all you can do is mock but not read, that "mess" is
all about what the Lord Jesus is doing today to the Churches in China.
Strange for one that tells us here he is humble and a believer in
Jesus to make such a statement of the glory of Jesus Christ and His
Church in China. Then I see, you are not in ONE with Christ or ONE
with God so there is no ONENESS with you and Jesus and HIS work in the
earth today. Your statement sure does prove whom you serve and who
you really are and what your not.
>
> > Where is your open and public website that does the same? I do not
> > avoid scriptures I teach them. Again what beliefs do you think you are
> > contradicting by your silly statements? I have found no verse or
> > verses that would contradict what I do believe, not what you evil mind
> > thinks I believe that is between you and you.
>
> You've "found no verses" because you're not looking for them or the
> Truth, nor do you want to see the 'condemning' verses when presented by
> somebody else.
One can not find what is not there. I don't need to make them up or
put words into a verse as you have done, so to make the LORD SAID as
if He is many or some one else then what the bible did say. THE LORD
>
> =======================================================================
> >> ==== Deleted by Raymond one time so far:
> >>
> =======================================================================
> >> ====
> >
> > Nope they are in the bible and I never delete a bible verse, what I do
> > is delete your false understanding of a verse that you take out of
> > context and try to make it read what it does not say, when used in the
> > section of the Bible it was posted in.
>
> This is itself a lie. You've deleted many scriptures. Now that you've
> been backed into a corner, you've auto-switched into "never did wrong"
> mode. You mode-switching oneness folks are amazing.
Nope, they are still all in the bible, at least the bible I have and
most other folks will confess the verses are still all there. I never
had been backed into a corner, unless I had wanted to be in that
corner. Then the Lord does point out to find such a place and it is a
good place to pray. Even a darken room, would be nice. Again you
lie, with this mode switching statement when you do the entire
person-switching and making God more then ONE GOD, then lie and say
you believe in ONE God. That is really amazing. You even add to the
Bible such terms as "God the Son" and "God the Holy Spirit" which
never once is found in any bible. You also want people to believe in
the "Trinity" but never once found that verse, which by the way I
never deleted since it is not in the bible. Then you tell me about
this "mode" thing. I gave you my doctrinal statement use it and show
me and all of us where I ever even used such terms, or call yourself
what I see you to be "a Liar"...
> > For one thing God not called "God the Father" in the OT, So YES God is
> > the Father and the Father is asking a question, then really this is
> > what it says "Thus saith the LORD" not God the Father as you need it to
> > say.
>
> God *IS NOT* the Father. Show me anywhere in the Bible Raymond where it
> says "God" is the Father", not "god the Father" but rather "God IS the
> Father" You disqualify my question on the basis of incorrect terminology
> but then submit your own logical falacy as a suitable replacement. But
> unlike your problem, mine is fixable so I'll restate the question with
> the 'false' error you pointed to being repaired:
Oh so now when I use your God the Father you say God is not the
Father, Jesus said HE WAS!! I stay with Jesus anything them accept
your turn around statements. God is the Father, but God is not God
the Father????? You messing with your mind on that one. I only
submited what the Bible does say.
> Can you agree with me Raymond that Isaiah 66:1 is concerning
> 'the Father'? YES/NO
>
> OK Raymond. Now you can answer the question, right?
>
I did just that, seem you snipped it all way, and your remark below
proves my point to any reader here.>
>
>
> <SNIP RAYMOND'S SELF-JUSTIFYING EVASIVE RESPONSE>
>
>
> >> Hebrews 10:10-13
> >> 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the
> >> body of Jesus Christ once for all.
> >> 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes
> >> the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
> >> 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,
> >> sat down on the right hand of God;
> >> 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
> >>
> >> Can you agree with me Raymond that Paul is speaking in reference to
> >> Jesus Christ, especially since in verse 10 it names "Jesus Christ" by
> >> name? YES/NO
> >
> > Again a yes/no are not going to cover this. As anyone can see, then
> > maybe your blind by your doctrine in verse 10 it says "body of Jesus
> > Christ" so why play with your yes/no, when it says Jesus Christ
> > without your silly yes or no statements?
>
> Again, it was in an effort to elicit a definite affirmitive or negative
> answer from you while also alluding to the rediculous extremes of which I
> was having to go just to get any kind of answer from you. And once again,
> you've sought to make "that" the issue instead of the real issue: your
> evasiveness.
>
Kind of silly to say I am evasive when I posted all this to reply in
one post to all your statements. I gave my own doctrine with verse
and such and all your doing is being evasive and calling what I did do
as evasive. I suppose children must play games, and like you pointed
out I told you in the beginning to stop playing games, and here you
are doing it anyway.
Enough is enough if you can not reply, so be it.
Raymond
Steve Winter
>> >Wow, that is a mouth full, and then a liar you are so it is clear why
>> >you would post in such an uncouth and filthy way.
>>
>> I thought the point here was what a liar and spiritual whore
>> Raymond Knapp is.
>
>No the point here is you are a liar, and all the above points to yours
>trutly.
If the filthy spiritually whorish reprobate fake missionary
Raymond Knapp admits that he proudly displays links to other
false-christian sites, how am I a liar for mentioning it?
No, reprobate Knapp, I guess you just couldn't help lying again,
eh? (Ray says he only lies when he can't help it.)
You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
Knapp.
Raymond Knapp is a reprobate spiritual slut trying to put himself
over as "Oneness missionary".
Some of his email harassment and behaviour is documented at
http://www.impsmail.org/knapp.html in case anyone is inclined
to take him seriously.
Can you say "communist sympathizer", Mr. Knapp? Of COURSE the
communists leave you alone, Mr. Knapp, you are their bubba.
Again, if the filthy spiritually whorish reprobate fake
missionary Raymond Knapp admits that he proudly displays links to
other false-christian sites, how am I a liar for mentioning it?
Pastor sTeve Winter
Steve Winter
>> Raymond Knapp admits that he proudly displays links to other
>> false-christian sites, how am I a liar for mentioning it?
>
>Only in your mind as all that are not with you are all false even your
>website shows that.
OK, so now is the devilish reprobate Raymond Knapp admitting that
he has links to trinitarian sites because he embraces them as
spiritual brethren?
Knapp has claimed to have been "saved" in a Baptist church,
right?
I do believe that those who teach false doctrines are "false",
AND I believe that reprobate scum like Raymond Knapp who promote
doctrines of devils while playing "oneness" are spiritual whores.
Any of you real Oneness readers still wondering why I rejected
Knapp as a fake years ago?
Pastor Winter
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >
> >Only in your mind as all that are not with you are all false even your
> >website shows that.
>
> OK, so now is the devilish reprobate Raymond Knapp admitting that
> he has links to trinitarian sites because he embraces them as
> spiritual brethren?
Oh my, so being Jesus Name and believing in Acts 2:38 is not the
teachings of them that are "devilish" and "reprobate" well you sure
put both your feet in your own mouth with that statement. Then you
sure are not my brother, as your evil tongue is not of the Lord Jesus
who just happens to be God if you did not know. One think for sure
there is no link to your evil empire at my website. All one finds
there is the ministry of them doing a work for Jesus, called "Pioneers
for JESUS" the only name in which a person must believe to be saved.
>
> Any of you real Oneness readers still wondering why I rejected
> Knapp as a fake years ago?
Just like you rejected the UPCI and its doctrines, and the other
Apostolic Churches and ministries. Because you are lost and not
saved, and needing to repent and follow Jesus. Clean up your filthy
tongue and ask God for forgiveness, for all the damage you and your
tongue has done to the Oneness Jesus name movement.
Raymond Knapp
www.pioneers-for-JESUS.org
>
> Pastor Winter
> --
13moons
Had you considered mounting a Holy War against each other (oh! too
late you have already started) or have you forgotten Peace and
Tolerance, Goodwill toward mankind etc.
Reigious tolerance is a wonderful thing.
Blessed be to both of you whatever path you follow.
rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) wrote in message news:<53592110.0408...@posting.google.com>...
Spazzmodicus
RAYMOND KNAPP IS A PROVEN LIAR!...A PROVEN LIAR...A PROVEN LIAR!
=====================================================
Spazz said:
>> If you'd take your crooked finger off that delete key then you'd
>> see plenty of scriptures.
Raymond said:
> My fingers are fine and they point at your errors, and there would be
> the crooked teachings of yours that my finger does point to and I also
> provided lots of Good truthful scriptures to back up my statements.
> Which it seems you cut all out, and you call me names, ha, very funny
> indeed.
My reply to Raymond was 963 lines of text. His reply to me was 250 lines
of text, yet he said *I* cut out his "lots of Good truthful scriptures".
In the text he deleted were scriptures he has refused to address,
questions he has refused to answer, and my own reponses to his questions
and scriptures, which I answered in hopes that he would reciprocate.
He deleted all, refusing to acknowledge my answers to his questions and
scriptures, or make any attempt whatsoever to answer my return questions.
What is the significance of this?
It serves as undeniable proof that Raymond Knapp is a liar.
When I accused Raymond of deleting scriptures he lied and said
"I never delete a bible verse"...proceding to lie about what he did:
> Nope they are in the bible and I never delete a bible verse, what I do
> is delete your false understanding of a verse that you take out of
> context and try to make it read what it does not say, when used in the
> section of the Bible it was posted in.
He basically "removed" my out-of-context statements (which included
scripture)....but he supposedly never deleted any Bible verses.
(which he did repeatedly as a matter of fact) It was direct "cut and
paste" quotes from a King James Bible that he denies deleting, in favor
of much more knoble "removing of contextural falacy" . This shows that
Raymond Knapp cannot tell the truth and connot be trusted as a proponent
of the "Bible". He has no respect for Truth, or the Word of God.
I've re-pasted the entire 963 line message that he responded to in this
response. You can also see the 963 lines of text that he whittled down to
250 lines on the web here (address below). Paste the web address below as
a single line in the little URL window in your web browser:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8
&selm=Xns9544CA4FD8096Jangle%40216.168.3.50&rnum=13
Once there, you can see the entire thread if desired by clicking on the
web link at the upper right side of the window that states:
"View: Complete Thread (19 articles)"
From this day on Raymond, if you answer ANY message by me, this message
will serve as the standard response. If it is your desire to perpetuate
the fact that "Raymond Knapp is a proven liar" then all you need do is to
respond to a post or reply by me. I will on the other hand always reply
to your messages in an attempt to defend the Truth, since I know the
"Truth" will in most cases become a victim in anything you post.
You do not believe in Truth, are an endtimes deceiver and antichrist
according to scripture.
Have a nice day anyway.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spazzmodicus
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a persistent one"
=================================================================
The original article into which Raymond carved down into 250 lines:
rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) Verbalated the following
news:53592110.04081...@posting.google.com:
> Spazzmodicus <No_Junkmail@My_Box> wrote in message
> news:<Xns9543149B...@216.168.3.50>...
>> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) Verbalated the following
>> news:53592110.04081...@posting.google.com:
>>
> Till then, you are like the blind leading the blind and in the ditch
> you will go.
Oh the paradoxical irony of that statement alone.....
Yet we see a more serious response from you coming in this latest reply.
The end justifies the means. A response from you concerning your beliefs
is what was pursued and that's exactly what was achieved, despite your
incessant ranting and objections to the contrary. Your reply serves as
evidence of your falsehood, for why would you "waste valuble time" with
a more serious and detailed response if your accusations of 'silliness,
lies, error' were what you claim them to be?
> Then let your 12 year old daughter do so, and if her pride
> is any worse then yours, well that would be interesting. My website
> is for the Honor and glory of the Lord Jesus Christ and If your 12
> year old could do better let her do so and give us the web address so
> all can see, if you all "hot air" or just like lying.
Yeah, sure. Whatever.
>> > God has been blessing over the weekend and everyone that was prayed
>> > for said they felt a healing, pain gone, joy and a thankful heart to
>> > the Lord Jesus was all I needed to know, what I do preach and do, is
>> > blessed by God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ is well pleased
>> > with me, and I am so proud of Jesus and the Joy that God gives to
>> > them that love him. I hope someday you will get out of your little
>> > man made whole, and find the reality in Christ Jesus.
>>
>> I've found him my friend. He's the same one you're running away from
>> in your delusions.
>
<SNIPPAGE OF NEAR INCOHERENT RAMBLING
>What is my delusions? That I love Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour?
If this were true, then you would love me too, but because it's not
true, you oppose me. Don't forget that you invited yourself into a
conversation that had nothing to do with you, in opposition to what I
said about the falseness of 'oneness'. Allow me to refresh your memory
of you love-filled entrance that is so indicative of the love of Christ
reigning in your life(not!) You're response was originally in the thread
"It is time to stop playing games" and then you carried that animosity
over to this current thread:
> You post all you like, I will answer what I like and cut the rest out
> so the readers can find the reply then have to keep reading and
> reading what was already posted over and over again. Your pride is
> great it is no wonder you think your points are important, when they
> are not, since they are not biblical in teachings, only verses out of
> context and your strange interpretations of them.
Well then, it should've been no problem for you to make mincemeat of
them then but you avoided with a lame excuse just as you are now.
It was *unrefuted scriptures* that you deleted every time.
> I have not seen any verse that contradicted my beliefs, so you lie
> again.
If you'd take your crooked finger off that delete key then you'd see
plenty of scriptures.
> Now you think you can tell me what I believe and go into some kind of
> teacher mode to correct your own ideas which are false to start with.
No. It is you whom are into the "modes" thing. Whatever I say, I say
through the Spirit of God, so it is He you argue with not me. I'm just a
simple earthen vessel just like you.
> My beliefs are on my website so all the world can see and read and
> know.
Well hidden in all the mess no doubt.
> Where is your open and public website that does the same? I do not
> avoid scriptures I teach them. Again what beliefs do you think you are
> contradicting by your silly statements? I have found no verse or
> verses that would contradict what I do believe, not what you evil mind
> thinks I believe that is between you and you.
You've "found no verses" because you're not looking for them or the
Truth, nor do you want to see the 'condemning' verses when presented by
somebody else.
=======================================================================
>> ==== Deleted by Raymond one time so far:
>>
=======================================================================
>> ====
>
> Nope they are in the bible and I never delete a bible verse, what I do
> is delete your false understanding of a verse that you take out of
> context and try to make it read what it does not say, when used in the
> section of the Bible it was posted in.
This is itself a lie. You've deleted many scriptures. Now that you've
been backed into a corner, you've auto-switched into "never did wrong"
mode. You mode-switching oneness folks are amazing.
>> Isaiah 66:1
>> 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my
>> footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the
>> place of my rest?
>>
>> Can you agree with me Raymond that Isaiah 66:1 is concerning 'God the
>> Father'? YES/NO
>
> So you like to limit to a yes and no.
No. That's just my willingness to accept even the smallest response from
you since up to that point, you were skirting the issues, ......as in
running away in the opposite direction with your skirt up over your head.
> Not very intelligent way of getting to the truth of the matter is it?
And now you seek to draw attention away from the Truth. How sad.
> For one thing God not called "God the Father" in the OT, So YES God is
> the Father and the Father is asking a question, then really this is
> what it says "Thus saith the LORD" not God the Father as you need it to
> say.
God *IS NOT* the Father. Show me anywhere in the Bible Raymond where it
says "God" is the Father", not "god the Father" but rather "God IS the
Father" You disqualify my question on the basis of incorrect terminology
but then submit your own logical falacy as a suitable replacement. But
unlike your problem, mine is fixable so I'll restate the question with
the 'false' error you pointed to being repaired:
Can you agree with me Raymond that Isaiah 66:1 is concerning
'the Father'? YES/NO
OK Raymond. Now you can answer the question, right?
<SNIP RAYMOND'S SELF-JUSTIFYING EVASIVE RESPONSE>
>> Hebrews 10:10-13
>> 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the
>> body of Jesus Christ once for all.
>> 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes
>> the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
>> 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,
>> sat down on the right hand of God;
>> 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
>>
>> Can you agree with me Raymond that Paul is speaking in reference to
>> Jesus Christ, especially since in verse 10 it names "Jesus Christ" by
>> name? YES/NO
>
> Again a yes/no are not going to cover this. As anyone can see, then
> maybe your blind by your doctrine in verse 10 it says "body of Jesus
> Christ" so why play with your yes/no, when it says Jesus Christ
> without your silly yes or no statements?
Again, it was in an effort to elicit a definite affirmitive or negative
answer from you while also alluding to the rediculous extremes of which I
was having to go just to get any kind of answer from you. And once again,
you've sought to make "that" the issue instead of the real issue: your
evasiveness.
YES!
======================================
=========================
Next scripture reference:
=========================
========
Hebrews 10:12-13
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,
sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
The creep in this document falsely states Christ walked on earth "as the
Raymond
> RAYMOND KNAPP IS A PROVEN LIAR!...A PROVEN LIAR...A PROVEN LIAR!
I see you're at it again, proving once and for all the truth never was
what you would like, and calling me a liar, only shows you lied again.
>
> My reply to Raymond was 963 lines of text. His reply to me was 250 lines
> of text, yet he said *I* cut out his "lots of Good truthful scriptures".
My 250 lines, really you are counting them ??? Lines mostly yours,
and to save space cut them out, what do you like thousands of lines of
text? Anyone that has any smarts know what you did post is till on
the internet and can be read many times, so why do you keep reposting
all these lines, as if they were gone? Do you have a mental problem?
I am just going to cut out all your lying and insults and reply if I
want to, to what I want. You been cutting out my lines of text and
leaving only parts of it, so you could reword them. Only one that is
silly or mental feels he needs to waste all the space and time it
takes to read and post a thousand lines of text. Get a life....
>
> In the text he deleted were scriptures he has refused to address,
> questions he has refused to answer, and my own reponses to his questions
> and scriptures, which I answered in hopes that he would reciprocate.
> He deleted all, refusing to acknowledge my answers to his questions and
> scriptures, or make any attempt whatsoever to answer my return questions.
LIES all Lies, I have not refused anything, in fact, took the time to
reply in detail to your post, I grow tried of reading and reading all
put back in again and again, as if you think by filling up the space
it makes you like smart. I have shown your lack of knowledge of what
verse you do misplace out of context and even accepted meanings, and
deleting such silly responses as a waste of the reader's time, and
mine. You are just lying, if I did not make any attempt you would
have not been replying at all. Such lying is sin, and sin like that
will keep on out of Heaven.
I am not going to read anymore and will cut the rest out, since you
started this with a lie, and make the matter a subject in such away,
no person would take you at your word. I do pray you find peace in
Jesus as LORD, and not just a verse that says so, but in fact. Your
seem lost and ignorant of what the Bible says about folks that do as
you are doing. All liars will have their place in the lake of fire,
and if you did not know that, it is also a verse from the Holy Bible.
I do pray for your soul.
Raymond Knapp
Raymond
> Watching you two go for it makes me glad I am a Pagan.
> Had you considered mounting a Holy War against each other (oh! too
> late you have already started) or have you forgotten Peace and
> Tolerance, Goodwill toward mankind etc.
> Reigious tolerance is a wonderful thing.
I am not mounting and such Holy War that is silly, only replying to
one that is like you only don't confess to be a Pagan. I know peace
and tolerance, then where did tolerance get anyone? Look at Iraq and
such, tolerance is a joke, and I think you know that also. Truth is a
wonderful think, anything else is a lie. Then why would one want to
be blessed by a Pagan. I am in no need of your blessing, be like one
going to die and could live, if they had the medicine, but was told
bless you, and nothing was given, so they died. Who needs that?
Sorry for taking up your time, then you see, I will even answer you,
and that is not a Holy or unholy War, it just being polite as my
mother always told me to give an answer. Then so does that Bible, say
about the same thing.
Spazzmodicus
Spazz said:
>> If you'd take your crooked finger off that delete key then you'd see
>> plenty of scriptures.
Raymond said:
> My fingers are fine and they point at your errors, and there would be
> the crooked teachings of yours that my finger does point to and I also
> provided lots of Good truthful scriptures to back up my statements.
> Which it seems you cut all out, and you call me names, ha, very funny
> indeed.
My reply to Raymond was 963 lines of text. His reply to me was 250 lines
of text, yet he said *I* cut out his "lots of Good truthful scriptures".
In the text he deleted were scriptures he has refused to address,
questions he has refused to answer, and my own reponses to his questions
and scriptures, which I answered in hopes that he would reciprocate.
He deleted all, refusing to acknowledge my answers to his questions and
scriptures, or make any attempt whatsoever to answer my return questions.
What is the significance of this?
Raymond
> RAYMOND KNAPP IS A PROVEN LIAR!...A PROVEN LIAR...A PROVEN LIAR!
Not by you or yours he is not. What you did to, is prove you are the
proven liar and said so three times. Shame on you, and God can
forgive if you repent of such silly statements and grow up, would
help.
Spazzmodicus
> Spazzmodicus <No_Junkmail@My_Box> wrote in message
Steve Winter
>Spazzmodicus <No_Junkmail@My_Box> wrote in message news:<Xns95478335...@216.168.3.50>...
>> RAYMOND KNAPP IS A PROVEN LIAR!...A PROVEN LIAR...A PROVEN LIAR!
>
>I see you're at it again, proving once and for all the truth never was
>what you would like, and calling me a liar, only shows you lied again.
You are both low life lying scum.
cubbies
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >Spazzmodicus <No_Junkmail@My_Box> wrote in message news:<Xns95478335...@216.168.3.50>...
> >> RAYMOND KNAPP IS A PROVEN LIAR!...A PROVEN LIAR...A PROVEN LIAR!
> >
> >I see you're at it again, proving once and for all the truth never was
> >what you would like, and calling me a liar, only shows you lied again.
>
> You are both low life lying scum.
>
>
>
NO YOU FALSE CHRISTIAN BUM, IT'S NOT!
GOODBYE, FOR NOW,
CUB_BRAVE
cubbies
>
> >Spazzmodicus <No_Junkmail@My_Box> wrote in message news:<Xns95478335...@216.168.3.50>...
> >> RAYMOND KNAPP IS A PROVEN LIAR!...A PROVEN LIAR...A PROVEN LIAR!
> >
> >I see you're at it again, proving once and for all the truth never was
> >what you would like, and calling me a liar, only shows you lied again.
>
> You are both low life lying scum.
>
> Pastor Winter
>
THE ONLY LIAR HERE IS YOU, FALSE CHRISTIAN BUM!
GOODBYE, FOR NOW,
CUB_BRAVE
Raymond
My the good Lord Jesus Christ bless you. Thanks for replying to Mr.
Winter and I hope some how you can help him or just pray for his soul
as I would not want anyone to miss the blessings of Heaven, which
Christ has made open for them that love Him.
Raymond Knapp
www.pioneers-for-jesus.org
Raymond
My the good Lord Jesus Christ bless you. Thanks for replying to Mr.
Raymond
My the good Lord Jesus Christ bless you. Thanks for replying to Mr.
Raymond
> RAYMOND KNAPP IS A PROVEN LIAR!...A PROVEN LIAR...A PROVEN LIAR!
Which proves to the readers, you will lie and call others liars, when
they do not bow down to your false acucations.
Raymond Knapp,
www.pioneers-for-jesus.org
Check that site out and see, I am not what this person trys to say I
am. God bless you all, in Jesus name.
Steve Winter
>> CUB_BRAVE
>
>My the good Lord Jesus Christ bless you.
Just look at the level of false-christian scum that Raymond Knapp
will fellowship if it benefits him. Is Knapp a spiritual whore
or is Knapp a spiritual whore?
Any of you real Oneness who stupidly threw away your honor,
integrity and salvation to "fellowship" Raymond Knapp feeling
the least bit embarrassed yet?
You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
Knapp. Filth like the gutless anon "cub brave" really are your
spiritual brethren.
Raymond Knapp is a reprobate spiritual slut trying to put himself
over as "Oneness missionary".
Some of his email harassment and behaviour is documented at
http://www.impsmail.org/knapp.html in case anyone is inclined
to take him seriously.
Can you say "communist sympathizer", Mr. Knapp? Of COURSE the
communists leave you alone, Mr. Knapp, you are their bubba.
Isn't it amazing the level of filth that comprise the list
of the public supporters of the reprobate Mark Bassett?
Pastor sTeve Winter
chri...@velocitus.net
you posted in alt.religion.christian.pentecostal :
>Spazzmodicus <No_Junkmail@My_Box> wrote in message news:<Xns95478335...@216.168.3.50>...
>> RAYMOND KNAPP IS A PROVEN LIAR!...A PROVEN LIAR...A PROVEN LIAR!
>
>I see you're at it again, proving once and for all the truth never was
>what you would like, and calling me a liar, only shows you lied again.
>>
Nothing has changed. Especially not you.
Christian
Spazzmodicus
> Spazzmodicus <No_Junkmail@My_Box> wrote in message
> news:<Xns95478335...@216.168.3.50>...
>> RAYMOND KNAPP IS A PROVEN LIAR!...A PROVEN LIAR...A PROVEN LIAR!
>
> Which proves to the readers, you will lie and call others liars, when
> they do not bow down to your false acucations.
>
> Raymond Knapp,
No, it just further proves what has already been proven, and that is,
that Raymond Lnapp is a proven liar.
RAYMOND KNAPP IS A PROVEN LIAR!...A PROVEN LIAR...A PROVEN LIAR!
=====================================================
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8
&selm=Xns9544CA4FD8096Jangle%40216.168.3.50&rnum=13
"View: Complete Thread (XX articles)"
From this day on Raymond, if you answer ANY message by me, this message
will serve as the standard response. If it is your desire to perpetuate
the fact that "Raymond Knapp is a proven liar" then all you need do is to
respond to a post or reply by me. I will on the other hand always reply
to your messages in an attempt to defend the Truth, since I know the
"Truth" will in most cases become a victim in anything you post.
You do not believe in Truth, are an endtimes deceiver and antichrist
according to scripture.
Have a nice day anyway.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spazzmodicus
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a persistent one"
=================================================================
The original article into which Raymond carved down into 250 lines:
rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) Verbalated the following
news:53592110.04081...@posting.google.com:
> Spazzmodicus <No_Junkmail@My_Box> wrote in message
Yeah, sure. Whatever.
YES!
======================================
=========================
Next scripture reference:
=========================
========
Not quite. Try again.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spazzmodicus
> Spazzmodicus <No_Junkmail@My_Box> wrote in message
> news:<Xns95478335...@216.168.3.50>...
>> RAYMOND KNAPP IS A PROVEN LIAR!...A PROVEN LIAR...A PROVEN LIAR!
>
> Which proves to the readers, you will lie and call others liars, when
> they do not bow down to your false acucations.
>
> Raymond Knapp,
No, it just further proves what has already been proven, and that is,
that Raymond Lnapp is a proven liar.
RAYMOND KNAPP IS A PROVEN LIAR!...A PROVEN LIAR...A PROVEN LIAR!
=====================================================
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8
&selm=Xns9544CA4FD8096Jangle%40216.168.3.50&rnum=13
"View: Complete Thread (XX articles)"
From this day on Raymond, if you answer ANY message by me, this message
will serve as the standard response. If it is your desire to perpetuate
the fact that "Raymond Knapp is a proven liar" then all you need do is to
respond to a post or reply by me. I will on the other hand always reply
to your messages in an attempt to defend the Truth, since I know the
"Truth" will in most cases become a victim in anything you post.
You do not believe in Truth, are an endtimes deceiver and antichrist
according to scripture.
Have a nice day anyway.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spazzmodicus
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a persistent one"
=================================================================
The original article into which Raymond carved down into 250 lines:
rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) Verbalated the following
news:53592110.04081...@posting.google.com:
> Spazzmodicus <No_Junkmail@My_Box> wrote in message
Yeah, sure. Whatever.
YES!
======================================
=========================
Next scripture reference:
=========================
========
Not quite. Try again.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) Verbalated the following
> news:53592110.04081...@posting.google.com:
>
> > news:<Xns95478335...@216.168.3.50>...
> >> RAYMOND KNAPP IS A PROVEN LIAR!...A PROVEN LIAR...A PROVEN LIAR!
> >
> > Which proves to the readers, you will lie and call others liars, when
> > they do not bow down to your false acucations.
> >
> > Raymond Knapp,
>
> No, it just further proves what has already been proven, and that is,
> that Raymond Lnapp is a proven liar.
The truth is your stil are lying with such a statement.
Raymond
>
> Matthew 1:16
> 16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus,
> who is called Christ
>
> This is the only place in the Bible that this "of whom was born" occurs,
> because Jesus was born "of" Mary, not unto Mary.
>
>
> > "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name
> > under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).
>
> OH...after He reduces the "Name" of God to a mere title earlier, THEN he
> wants to claim some sort of right to it later. What a hypocrite.
Then I did not do that, you lie again and you would be the hypocrite.
There is no other name, and that name is not a "reduced" it is the
name of JESUS. The only NAME one can be saved by, which you seem not
to know him or the power of His name and his title is LORD. Check it
out in the Greek?Hebrew and you may find you are following false
teachings which could be hypocrital.
>
>
> > Are you again going to post that I refused to answer your verses?
>
> You've played games with them, and tried to explain your way around them.
A game, when it is the truth it is the game of life, which brings
death or life, heaven or hell. I do not tried to explan, I do explan
and this is all you can say, in your defence, nothing, but accuse and
use words, but no answer to what was asked. Again showing you are a
proven liar, as you seem to like that statement.
>
>
> > That would be a lie if you dare say such. Check out the verses and
> > reply to what is here not what you think someone believes, and quit
> > trying to make the other confess to what you think is oneness when it
> > is not. My beliefs in God and doctrine have been post over and over
> > again here in this newsgroup in full to people just like you. For all
> > can read and others can verify that if they would. So son, go and
> > study what you play with and learn the truth of what is, then just
> > sticking your foot in your mouth and acting silly in the Newsgroups.
>
> Sounds great Raymond but it's the same old flatulatory emissions that
> you've...um....emitted before. I've refuted all here. Show me where
> I'm wrong with sound scriptural references and doctrine.
No one sees more then a few words here, no "refuted all here". Nothing
just your statement without fact which means you lied again in your
above statement.
I showed you wrong, and ALL Scriptural is "Sound scriptural" unless
you are a false believer and have some "other gospel" or other
scriptures like the JW or the Islam text etc. All the verses I
applied here and you refused to address are very Bible and very
scriptural and I dare say all true Believers in Christ Jesus would
agree. The Bible says, even if you do not want to accept the WORD as
"sound" that is you sin and your future judgment when you do meet the
LORD JESUS as Judge in the last days.
>
>
> > I answered all your yes/no question and the bible is true, even if you
> > still need to have a yes or no to that fact.
>
> Not quite. Try again.
Send me an offering to cover my time and I will reply again, your
silly statements and refusal to reply to what is said only shows you
are lying and not worth the time to post all over again. Just check
up with the past post, since you like to dump them in all the time, it
would be nice to read what you dump, and now that could be a few
thousand words. It is not the amount of words that prove one right or
wrong, it is the fact found in truth, and honesty, which it is clear
you care not for.
>
>
> >> Here are a few questions:
> >>
> >> 1.The Father said in Isaiah 66:1 "earth is my footstool". YES/NO
> >>
> >> 2.The Son is still waiting "till his enemies be made his
> >> footstool".YES/NO
> >>
> >> 3.Jesus sat down on the right hand of God. YES/NO
> >>
> >> 4.Why on the right Hand. Why not sit *IN* the "Throne of God"? ???/??
> >>
> >> 5.Doesn't all the above indicate the existence of a God of more than
> >> one being? YES/NO
> >>
> >> Please Raymond, adress the points above if you will. You'll notice
> >> I've taken care to not play word games or anything else you've
> >> accused. Please explain the above according to the oneness beliefs. I
> >> think you made a false statement when you said "even if your not
> >> interested in what others say" because I have in the past and am now
> >> once again showing my interest in what you have to say. Enlighten me.
> >
> > PLease Spazzmodicus read what the Oneness do believe as I have posted
> > here in reply to all your questions. I sure hope the verse show more
> > then one being, since Jesus was born of Mary and is a being, is God a
> > human being? yes/no? Is God ONE GOD? YES/NO?
>
> I've already address that above. Answer the 5 questions you just evaded.
> Here, I'll paste them again for you:
Let all readers see and understand, after all his yes/no questions he
wanted me to reply to and I did, I ask him to do the same, and he
refuses and evades them with saying he did that, when he could not of
done so, as these questions are not repeat's, just questions. Seems
like he wants one to follow him, but refuses when shown in error to
deal with the questions.
> ===============================================================
> 1.The Father said in Isaiah 66:1 "earth is my footstool". YES/NO
>
> 2.The Son is still waiting "till his enemies be made his
> footstool".YES/NO
>
> 3.Jesus sat down on the right hand of God. YES/NO
>
> 4.Why on the right Hand. Why not sit *IN* the "Throne of God"? ???/??
>
> 5.Doesn't all the above indicate the existence of a God of more than
> one being? YES/NO
>
> =================================================================
> <SNIPPED RAYMONDS WHINING>
>
> > 10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we
> > deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the
> > covenant of our fathers? KJV
> >
> > YES/No does it teach ONE FATHER and HE is ONE GOD?
>
> NO. You're inferring that the "one father" is the "one God" in that
> scripture. It doesn't state that at all. You're reading into it.
Really if you would learn to understand the Bible, ask others here
Trinity or Oneness and they all will tell you the ONE GOD is the ONE
FATHER GOD" Then I did give the verses that did say there is only ONE
GOD AND FATHER, no more no less.
>
>
> > Mark 12:32
> > 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the
> > truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: KJV
> >
> > YES/NO does it say ONE GOD and none other?
>
> YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
I never said it had anything to do with "trinitarianism" you avoid the
question which was about ONE GOD, not your Three what ever you want to
call your god. I am using BIBLE and you again apply to a doctrine
that was not invented in the Bible and was not till after 325 AD even
accepted by some. The Bible is the truth, not teachings found outside
the bible. So why will you not answer a simple question to yourself,
as you sure posted a lot for me to reply to, and I never once said it
was a contradiction to the doctrine of the Trinity or the ONE GOD
Oneness teachings. You seem not to be able to answer directly to
anything. You dump in hundreds of past post lines so to hide what is
new, and knowing folks will not read a thousand word post that been
posted before, you hope I or others will not see your foolishness. I
sure like in the past you will again try to hide any reply to this, by
posting what is already on the newsgroups, another thousand lines of
past text. Then that is what you do, so we all can see, you do have
something to hide.a
>
>
> > Romans 3:30
> > 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by
> > faith, and uncircumcision through faith. KJV
> >
> > Paul is saying ONE GOD YES/NO?
>
> YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
You refuse to address the text again.
>
>
> > 1 Corinthians 8:6
> > 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things,
> > and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and
> > we by him.KJV
> >
> > YES/NO There is but One God as Paul points out?
>
> YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
You refuse to address the text again.
>
>
> > YES/NO is ther ONE LORD Jesus Christ?
>
> YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
You refuse to address the text again.
>
>
> > Yes/No is this ONE GOD by whom are all things and we by him"
>
> YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
You refuse to address the text again.
>
>
> > Ephesians 4:6
> > 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in
> > you all.
> > KJV
> >
> > YES/NO is the Godhead ONE GOD and through all and in you all"
>
> No. You are inferring again. Only "one God" and one "Father of all".
> You added "godhead".
I am not inferring anything the verse is not my making, it is Bible
and I did not write or rewrite the bible as you seem to want it to fit
your teachings. It is the Bible says, so why not reply to it and stop
playing your hit and run games, which show you do not have the smarts
to reply to them.
>
> > YES/No do you see many persons and beings here, in ONE GOD and Father
> > of all?
>
> Yes - I see three beings in "one God"
Is your meaning of "beings" each having a body soul and spirit? Like
human person or being? Which would end up with nine in your three
beings? Then three beings would be pantheism. Both "pantheism" and
"panentheism" are terms of recent origin, coined to describe certain
views of the relationship between God and the world that are different
from that of traditional Theism. As reflectedin the prefix "pan-"
(Greek pas, "all"), both of the terms stress the all-embracing
inclusiveness of God, as compared with his separateness as emphasized
in many versions of Theism. On the other hand, pantheism and
panentheism, since they stress the theme of immanence—i.e., of the
indwelling presence of God—are themselves versions of Theism conceived
in its broadest meaning. Pantheism stresses the identity between God
and the world, panentheism (Greek en, "in") that the world is included
in God but that God is more than the world.
The adjective "pantheist" was introduced by the Irish Deist John
Toland in the book Socinianism Truly Stated (1705). The noun
"pantheism" was first used in 1709 by one of Toland's opponents. The
term "panentheism" appeared much later, in 1828. Although the terms
are recent, they have been applied retrospectively to alternative
views of the divine being as found in the entire philosophical
traditions of both East and West.
>
>
> > YES/NO is ONE GOD the Father or is there more then one God?
>
> No - You added "one" to "God, the Father". "God, the Father" is a
> perfectly acceptable term.
So is "No" meaning you have many "gods" or many "God the Fahter", like
I said above you are in paganism not Christian teachings.
>
>
> > 1 Timothy 2:5
> > 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man
> > Christ Jesus; KJV
> >
> > IS JESUS a man, or is he only God YES?NO?
>
> Jesus Christ is a man according to that scripture.
> The Son will not separate from the Father and vice-versa, therefore
> your question of His being "God" is invalid
>
>
> > James 2:19
> > 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils
> > also believe, and tremble. KJV
> >
> > Sounds like the devils know more then you do about God and His being,
> > and they are smart enough to believe and tremble then make up silly
> > statements and deny that there is ONE GOD!
>
> There is indeed only One God. I have no disagreement with you there
> Raymond. But the one God is comprised of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
That is what I always have said, God is the Father, Son and Holy
Ghost, which you been trying to argue against from day one of these
post. Now you see the error of your argument, so retreat to what I
have said, as your own statment. You are one very weak person.
>
>
> >> "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a persistent one"
> >
> > I suppose to you, that would seem true, and illusions part of your
> > confusion.
>
> That was a quote by Einstien. A Jewish Christian. A real one.
Real what a sinner, or a Jew? Seems like you like illusions instead
of the Bible.
Raymond
Spazzmodicus
> Spazzmodicus <No_Ju...@My.Box> wrote in message
> news:<Xns954C65A2...@216.168.3.50>...
>> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) Verbalated the following
>> news:53592110.04081...@posting.google.com:
>>
>> > Spazzmodicus <No_Junkmail@My_Box> wrote in message
>> > news:<Xns95478335...@216.168.3.50>...
>> >> RAYMOND KNAPP IS A PROVEN LIAR!...A PROVEN LIAR...A PROVEN LIAR!
>> >
>> > Which proves to the readers, you will lie and call others liars,
>> > when they do not bow down to your false acucations.
>> >
>> > Raymond Knapp,
>>
>> No, it just further proves what has already been proven, and that is,
>> that Raymond Knapp is a proven liar.
>
> The truth is your stil are lying with such a statement.
>
> Raymond
>
>>
>> Matthew 1:16
>> 16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus,
>> who is called Christ
>>
>> This is the only place in the Bible that this "of whom was born"
>> occurs, because Jesus was born "of" Mary, not unto Mary.
>>
>>
>> > "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other
>> > name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts
>> > 4:12).
>>
>> OH...after He reduces the "Name" of God to a mere title earlier, THEN
>> he wants to claim some sort of right to it later. What a hypocrite.
> Then I did not do that, you lie again and you would be the hypocrite.
> There is no other name, and that name is not a "reduced" it is the
> name of JESUS. The only NAME one can be saved by, which you seem not
> to know him or the power of His name and his title is LORD. Check it
> out in the Greek?Hebrew and you may find you are following false
> teachings which could be hypocrital.
It's strange that you start fighting back in little bits and pieces
Raymond, all after denying that all I siad about you is fabricated and
lies. Why whould want to lend credence to fabrication and lies? Is it
because you're being proven a liar?
For your information, what I said above was said about whoever wrote the
document that you submitted. Remeber? You cut and pasted a oneness
document form somewhere and I replied that I had already proven two such
documents submitted by Tan Ya to be false and that I would do the same
for you. Remember now? Probably not. It's there in the black and white of
the text.
>> > Are you again going to post that I refused to answer your verses?
>>
>> You've played games with them, and tried to explain your way around
>> them.
>
> A game, when it is the truth it is the game of life, which brings
> death or life, heaven or hell. I do not tried to explan, I do explan
> and this is all you can say, in your defence, nothing, but accuse and
> use words, but no answer to what was asked. Again showing you are a
> proven liar, as you seem to like that statement.
I answered all your questions except one invalid question Raymond. Since
you say I gave "no answer to what was asked", let me once again prove you
a liar by repasting my answers:
=============================================================
==============================================================
> 10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we
> deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the
> covenant of our fathers? KJV
>
> YES/No does it teach ONE FATHER and HE is ONE GOD?
NO. You're inferring that the "one father" is the "one God" in that
scripture. It doesn't state that at all. You're reading into it.
> Mark 12:32
> 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the
> truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: KJV
>
> YES/NO does it say ONE GOD and none other?
YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
> Romans 3:30
> 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by
> faith, and uncircumcision through faith. KJV
>
> Paul is saying ONE GOD YES/NO?
YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
> 1 Corinthians 8:6
> 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things,
> and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and
> we by him.KJV
>
> YES/NO There is but One God as Paul points out?
YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
> YES/NO is ther ONE LORD Jesus Christ?
YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
> Yes/No is this ONE GOD by whom are all things and we by him"
YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
> Ephesians 4:6
> 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in
> you all.
> KJV
>
> YES/NO is the Godhead ONE GOD and through all and in you all"
No. You are inferring again. Only "one God" and one "Father of all".
You added "godhead".
> YES/No do you see many persons and beings here, in ONE GOD and Father
> of all?
Yes - I see three beings in "one God"
> YES/NO is ONE GOD the Father or is there more then one God?
No - You added "one" to "God, the Father". "God, the Father" is a
perfectly acceptable term.
> 1 Timothy 2:5
> 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man
> Christ Jesus; KJV
>
> IS JESUS a man, or is he only God YES?NO?
Jesus Christ is a man according to that scripture.
The Son will not separate from the Father and vice-versa, therefore
your question of His being "God" is invalid
============================================================
==============================================================
<SNIP>
> I showed you wrong, and ALL Scriptural is "Sound scriptural" unless
> you are a false believer and have some "other gospel" or other
> scriptures like the JW or the Islam text etc. All the verses I
> applied here and you refused to address are very Bible and very
> scriptural and I dare say all true Believers in Christ Jesus would
> agree. The Bible says, even if you do not want to accept the WORD as
> "sound" that is you sin and your future judgment when you do meet the
> LORD JESUS as Judge in the last days.
Yeah. Just look above for "all the verses I refused to address". You're
an unashamed blatant liar Raymond
>> > I answered all your yes/no question and the bible is true, even if
>> > you still need to have a yes or no to that fact.
>>
>> Not quite. Try again.
>
>
<SNIP>
> It is not the amount of words that prove one right or
> wrong, it is the fact found in truth, and honesty, which it is clear
> you care not for.
But the amount of words you choose to delete without addressing, and then
denying having deleted them, says more about you than you can say about
me. You're actions only verify what I've accused you of.
Again, please simply look above for the questions submitted by Raymand
that I answered as a "good-faith" gesture. He has now repeatedly lied
that I refused to answer his questions. All may see the actuall
occurences by doing a Google search or checking it out at the following
address:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8
&selm=Xns9544CA4FD8096Jangle%40216.168.3.50&rnum=13
Once there, you can see the entire thread if desired by clicking on the
web link at the upper right side of the window that states:
"View: Complete Thread (XX articles)"
>> ===============================================================
>> 1.The Father said in Isaiah 66:1 "earth is my footstool". YES/NO
>>
>> 2.The Son is still waiting "till his enemies be made his
>> footstool".YES/NO
>>
>> 3.Jesus sat down on the right hand of God. YES/NO
>>
>> 4.Why on the right Hand. Why not sit *IN* the "Throne of God"? ???/??
>>
>> 5.Doesn't all the above indicate the existence of a God of more than
>> one being? YES/NO
>>
>> =================================================================
>> <SNIPPED RAYMONDS WHINING>
>>
>> > 10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do
>> > we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning
>> > the covenant of our fathers? KJV
>> >
>> > YES/No does it teach ONE FATHER and HE is ONE GOD?
>>
>> NO. You're inferring that the "one father" is the "one God" in that
>> scripture. It doesn't state that at all. You're reading into it.
>
> Really if you would learn to understand the Bible, ask others here
> Trinity or Oneness and they all will tell you the ONE GOD is the ONE
> FATHER GOD" Then I did give the verses that did say there is only ONE
> GOD AND FATHER, no more no less.
I'm not interested in backtracking into what you've already refused to
address Raymond, in hopes that you might somehow redeem yourself from the
mess you've gotten yourself into. My only intent is to continue to prove
that you're a liar every single time you open your mouth....and it's not
at all difficult to do.
>> > Mark 12:32
>> > 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the
>> > truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: KJV
>> >
>> > YES/NO does it say ONE GOD and none other?
>>
>> YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
>
> I never said it had anything to do with "trinitarianism" you avoid the
> question which was about ONE GOD, not your Three what ever you want to
> call your god.
Many of your points was stressed that there are "one" God, not three.
I was simply illustrating the fat that the scriptures you gave which you
acribed to your 'one god' did not conclusively rule out the trinitatrian
God. You of course, weren't bright enough to see that.
> I am using BIBLE and you again apply to a doctrine
> that was not invented in the Bible and was not till after 325 AD even
> accepted by some. The Bible is the truth, not teachings found outside
> the bible. So why will you not answer a simple question to yourself,
> as you sure posted a lot for me to reply to, and I never once said it
> was a contradiction to the doctrine of the Trinity or the ONE GOD
> Oneness teachings. You seem not to be able to answer directly to
> anything.
I answered all the questions you've asked Raymond.
> You dump in hundreds of past post lines so to hide what is
> new, and knowing folks will not read a thousand word post that been
> posted before, you hope I or others will not see your foolishness.
You obviously read every line.
> I sure like in the past you will again try to hide any reply to this,
> by posting what is already on the newsgroups, another thousand lines
> of past text. Then that is what you do, so we all can see, you do have
> something to hide.a
Then you should be able to bring it out into the open, were I really
hiding something.
>> > Romans 3:30
>> > 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by
>> > faith, and uncircumcision through faith. KJV
>> >
>> > Paul is saying ONE GOD YES/NO?
>>
>> YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
>
> You refuse to address the text again.
But I answered the question. One God = Father, Son and Holy Ghost, shall
justify all according to their own faith. How's that for addressing?
>> > 1 Corinthians 8:6
>> > 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all
>> > things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all
>> > things, and we by him.KJV
>> >
>> > YES/NO There is but One God as Paul points out?
>>
>> YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
>
> You refuse to address the text again.
But I answered the question. I've adressed this scripture many times. All
things are *OF* the Father and all things are *BY* the Son. THis
scripture says "Jesus Christ" but others scriptures say "Father and Son",
and this is simply more proof of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost Godhead.
Three beings equal 'One God'. How's that for addressing?
>> > YES/NO is ther ONE LORD Jesus Christ?
>>
>> YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
>
> You refuse to address the text again.
But I answered the question. There is only one Lord Jesus Christ just as
there is only one Father and one Holy Ghost. How's that for addressing?
>> > Yes/No is this ONE GOD by whom are all things and we by him"
>>
>> YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
>
> You refuse to address the text again.
But I answered the question. I also adressesd the content of this
scripture above.
>> > Ephesians 4:6
>> > 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and
>> > in you all.
>> > KJV
>> >
>> > YES/NO is the Godhead ONE GOD and through all and in you all"
>>
>> No. You are inferring again. Only "one God" and one "Father of all".
>> You added "godhead".
>
> I am not inferring anything the verse is not my making, it is Bible
> and I did not write or rewrite the bible as you seem to want it to fit
> your teachings. It is the Bible says, so why not reply to it and stop
> playing your hit and run games, which show you do not have the smarts
> to reply to them.
Where in that scripture is "Godhead" Raymond? There is a difference in
saying "one God and Father" and then saying "one Godhead". That
difference is what I'm speaking of, that you are inferring.
>> > YES/No do you see many persons and beings here, in ONE GOD and
>> > Father of all?
>>
>> Yes - I see three beings in "one God"
>
>
> Is your meaning of "beings" each having a body soul and spirit? Like
> human person or being?
You're inferring. A being is a being. You simply want to try and destroy
any opportunity of the Truth getting out to anybody that may be reading.
<SNIPPED RAYMOND"S EVASION TACTIC>
> The adjective "pantheist" was introduced by the Irish Deist <SNIP>
Are the Father, Son and Holy Ghost "beings" Raymond?
>> > YES/NO is ONE GOD the Father or is there more then one God?
>>
>> No - You added "one" to "God, the Father". "God, the Father" is a
>> perfectly acceptable term.
>
> So is "No" meaning you have many "gods" or many "God the Fahter", like
> I said above you are in paganism not Christian teachings.
There is One God which consists of the one Father, one Son and one Holy
Ghost. So yes, there is one God and One Father. This *IS* the Christian
God.
>> > 1 Timothy 2:5
>> > 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the
>> > man Christ Jesus; KJV
>> >
>> > IS JESUS a man, or is he only God YES?NO?
>>
>> Jesus Christ is a man according to that scripture.
>> The Son will not separate from the Father and vice-versa, therefore
>> your question of His being "God" is invalid
*****RAYMOND DID NOT ADDRESS THIS POINT!! WHAT ABOUT THIS POINT RAYMOND?
*****RAYMOND DID NOT ADDRESS THIS POINT!! WHAT ABOUT THIS POINT RAYMOND?
*****RAYMOND DID NOT ADDRESS THIS POINT!! WHAT ABOUT THIS POINT RAYMOND?
*****RAYMOND DID NOT ADDRESS THIS POINT!! WHAT ABOUT THIS POINT RAYMOND?
*****RAYMOND DID NOT ADDRESS THIS POINT!! WHAT ABOUT THIS POINT RAYMOND?
Will the Father and Son work independently of each other Raymond?
>> > James 2:19
>> > 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils
>> > also believe, and tremble. KJV
>> >
>> > Sounds like the devils know more then you do about God and His
>> > being, and they are smart enough to believe and tremble then make
>> > up silly statements and deny that there is ONE GOD!
>>
>> There is indeed only One God. I have no disagreement with you there
>> Raymond. But the one God is comprised of the Father, Son and Holy
>> Ghost.
>
> That is what I always have said, God is the Father, Son and Holy
> Ghost, which you been trying to argue against from day one of these
> post. Now you see the error of your argument, so retreat to what I
> have said, as your own statment. You are one very weak person.
God IS NOT the 'Father'. Do you agree with me Raymond? God consists of
"the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost". Do you agree with this
assessment now Raymond? You should agree since you just alluded that is
what you "always said".
RAYMOND KNAPP IS A PROVEN LIAR!...A PROVEN LIAR...A PROVEN LIAR!
=====================================================
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web link at the upper right side of the window that states:
"View: Complete Thread (19 articles)"
From this day on Raymond, if you answer ANY message by me, this message
will serve as the standard response. If it is your desire to perpetuate
the fact that "Raymond Knapp is a proven liar" then all you need do is to
respond to a post or reply by me. I will on the other hand always reply
to your messages in an attempt to defend the Truth, since I know the
"Truth" will in most cases become a victim in anything you post.
You do not believe in Truth, are an endtimes deceiver and antichrist
according to scripture.
Have a nice day anyway.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Raymond
> >> OH...after He reduces the "Name" of God to a mere title earlier, THEN
> >> he wants to claim some sort of right to it later. What a hypocrite.
>
> > Then I did not do that, you lie again and you would be the hypocrite.
> > There is no other name, and that name is not a "reduced" it is the
> > name of JESUS. The only NAME one can be saved by, which you seem not
> > to know him or the power of His name and his title is LORD. Check it
> > out in the Greek?Hebrew and you may find you are following false
> > teachings which could be hypocrital.
>
> It's strange that you start fighting back in little bits and pieces
> Raymond, all after denying that all I siad about you is fabricated and
> lies. Why whould want to lend credence to fabrication and lies? Is it
> because you're being proven a liar?
I am not fighting at all, you mind is, I am not. Then do reply to
your small bits with short answers if possible. I not denying you
lied, you did and that is so. I don't fabricate either, I just use
what you wrote and reply to it, as is, where is. Is this suppose to
show you're intelligent to make such false assertions, when if any was
true, you would have my quotes and what I said to your statements, to
prove yourself. Which you do not have, so now you are just
fabricating statements and such. You prove you are what this Subject
matter says you are. I never been a proven a liar, and I see you can
not, either so you made it a question "?" knowing right well, I do not
lie. As like in this post, your statement is still here, which really
just doesn't prove anything, except you are attempting to say things,
as fact, and just hate it when they are not accepted as fact, since
they are not true to start with.
> For your information, what I said above was said about whoever wrote the
> document that you submitted. Remeber? You cut and pasted a oneness
> document form somewhere and I replied that I had already proven two such
> documents submitted by Tan Ya to be false and that I would do the same
> for you. Remember now? Probably not. It's there in the black and white of
> the text.
No I do not remember such, as what I did post was from the ONENESS
Website and was the ONENESS teaching accepted by their churches and
which I do agree with. It was not open for discussion as is, what it
did so was prove you do not know what Oneness doctrine is, and you
make up rebuttal of what you said was Oneness teachings, when they
were not. In simple terms, you make up what you want to say is
Oneness, then disagree with such a fake teachings and then use that
statement of yours to say it is what Oneness believes. Be the same as
saying a trinity person believes in three gods, and use some
non-trinity person's statement to prove such. Mr. Tay Ya, did not
submit a doctrinal statement. Then if you could as you implied "do the
same for you" and prove it, you would have done so. That is just more
hot air and lies as a Church doctrinal statement is on record and does
show what real Oneness people do believe, and which show your
assertions, your own belief system for your so called Oneness
teachings, which is false to start with. Which my statement proved,
and you did not "do the same for" me.
>
> I answered all your questions except one invalid question Raymond. Since
> you say I gave "no answer to what was asked", let me once again prove you
> a liar by repasting my answers:
Oh so you know select what questions are valid and what is not, more
like choise to answer what you can and what would prove you are in
error, you call invalid. Very interesting and open for all to see why
you do and are proven to lie, and need to call others such, as it
would be invalid to question your actions. Very funny indeed. <SICK>
>
> =============================================================
>
> ==============================================================
> > 10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we
> > deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the
> > covenant of our fathers? KJV
> >
> > YES/No does it teach ONE FATHER and HE is ONE GOD?
>
> NO. You're inferring that the "one father" is the "one God" in that
> scripture. It doesn't state that at all. You're reading into it.
So you have TWO or THREE Fathers??? I am not reading anything into
ONE GOD and Father. You are not even reading, just like I said above
making up your own bible verses or worse, when shown you are in error,
and of course you would see that as invalid as it proves you do not
know your bible.
John 8:41-47
41 You do the deeds of your father."
Then they said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one
Father — God."
42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me,
for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself,
but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you
are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the
devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a
murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because
there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own
resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I
tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of
sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is
of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are
not of God."
NKJV
Then it was not a one verse teaching as the above words of Jesus
proved again, you like to cut out a verse and try to twist it to say
what the whole of the bible doesn't say, making you what the subject
of this post says you are, again.
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8
> &selm=Xns9544CA4FD8096Jangle%40216.168.3.50&rnum=13
>
> Once there, you can see the entire thread if desired by clicking on the
> web link at the upper right side of the window that states:
>
> "View: Complete Thread (19 articles)"
>
> From this day on Raymond, if you answer ANY message by me, this message
> will serve as the standard response. If it is your desire to perpetuate
> the fact that "Raymond Knapp is a proven liar" then all you need do is to
> respond to a post or reply by me. I will on the other hand always reply
> to your messages in an attempt to defend the Truth, since I know the
> "Truth" will in most cases become a victim in anything you post.
> You do not believe in Truth, are an endtimes deceiver and antichrist
> according to scripture.
Run all you like, the readers can see you do not have doctrine
teachings, and do not know the Bible, and make up doctrines and tell
people that believe the true doctrine, what you post is the real,
while them that know are in the wrong. Which are falsehoods and what
a liar does? I wonder if Google would like your posting old post over
and over again, and would that be seen as the way a honest person
replies in a Discussion? "Raymond Knapp is not a proven liar" He does
prove you are and will use the "Spazzmodicus a PROVEN LIAR!"Etc. to
show your lies as an end time, all the time, what ever the time
deceiver and If you like an antichrist. Then you never been able to
prove such statements about me, but your post sure does point at
yourself.
>
> Have a nice day anyway.
I do, as my day is in the LORD JESUS CHRIST, The real God and Saviour.
Yours truly in Jesus,
Raymond
www.pioneers-for-JESUS.org if anyone would like to really see who and
what I am and do, in the service of the LORD JESUS. Also proves my
statements here about this person called Spazzmodicus.
Raymond
lie to prove himself what he calls me as being.
Spazzmodicus <No_Ju...@My.Box> wrote in message news:<Xns954FB38D...@216.168.3.50>...
Raymond
>
> > Ephesians 4:6
> > 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in
> > you all.
> > KJV
> >
> > YES/NO is the Godhead ONE GOD and through all and in you all"
>
> No. You are inferring again. Only "one God" and one "Father of all".
> You added "godhead".
It seems you are very ignorant of the scriptures, just because I did
not qoute a verse, doesn't mean I added anything, I was giving you the
benifit of the dought that you knew something of the subject, since
you seem not to and you want many "gods/beings" I will now give you
those verses on the Godhead.
Romans 1:20
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are
clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His
eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, NKJV
Colossians 2:9
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; NKJV
You are welcome, and this also shows I do not lie, and you are the
proven liar not I.
>
> > YES/No do you see many persons and beings here, in ONE GOD and Father
> > of all?
>
> Yes - I see three beings in "one God"
How many body's, souls, and spirit in this "One God" of yours? Is it
a company of like a corporation, and the One is just a figure of
speech?
Now lets see if there is more then one god in God, since each of your
beings are called "God" by you. The Bible would be the correct answer
and should be taken as such. Just because you can not see it, or do
not believe it, the Bible is correct and here are a few more verses on
this matter.
Ex 20:3
3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
NKJV
Ex 34:14
14(for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is
Jealous, is a jealous God),
NKJV
Deut 4:39
39 Therefore know this day, and consider it in your heart, that the
LORD Himself is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is
no other.
NKJV
Deut 5:7
7'You shall have no other gods before Me.
NKJV
1 Kings 8:60
60 that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God;
there is no other.
NKJV
Isa 45:5-7
5 I am the LORD, and there is no other;
There is no God besides Me.
I will gird you, though you have not known Me,
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting
That there is none besides Me.
I am the LORD, and there is no other;
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the LORD, do all these things.'
NKJV
>
>
> > YES/NO is ONE GOD the Father or is there more then one God?
>
> No - You added "one" to "God, the Father". "God, the Father" is a
> perfectly acceptable term.
I did not add ONE to God, the Bible does that as seen in these verses.
Psalms 50:1
1 God the Righteous Judge
A Psalm of Asaph.
The Mighty One, God the LORD,
Has spoken and called the earth
From the rising of the sun to its going down.
NKJV
Malachi 2:10
10 Treachery of Infidelity
Have we not all one Father?
Has not one God created us?
Why do we deal treacherously with one another
By profaning the covenant of the fathers?
NKJV
Mark 12:32
32 So the scribe said to Him, "Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the
truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He. NKJV
Acts 7:35
35 "This Moses whom they rejected, saying, 'Who made you a ruler and a
judge?' is the one God sent to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand
of the Angel who appeared to him in the bush. NKJV
Romans 3:30
30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith
and the uncircumcised through faith. NKJV
1 Corinthians 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and
we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things,
and through whom we live.
NKJV
Ephesians 4:6
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in
you all.
NKJV
1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man
Christ Jesus, NKJV
James 2:19
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons
believe — and tremble! NKJV
> >
> > I never said it had anything to do with "trinitarianism" you avoid the
> > question which was about ONE GOD, not your Three what ever you want to
> > call your god.
>
> Many of your points was stressed that there are "one" God, not three.
> I was simply illustrating the fat that the scriptures you gave which you
> acribed to your 'one god' did not conclusively rule out the trinitatrian
> God. You of course, weren't bright enough to see that.
Not my points but the Bible itself says there is only "One God" and it
sure is there as the verses above prove. Since I really not
interested in Trinitarian teachings having studied them in College and
many years in the ministry, I never rule on them and I was not talking
about such, as it is a doctrine that came over a hundred years after
the last Apostle died, and the teachings of the Bible Church was
finished. Then even your trinity idea would be debated by trinity
teachers, as not according to what the Marjory do believe in that
doctrine. You seem to lack the education to understand the Theology
of what you want to play games with here.
>
> > I am using BIBLE and you again apply to a doctrine
> > that was not invented in the Bible and was not till after 325 AD even
> > accepted by some. The Bible is the truth, not teachings found outside
> > the bible. So why will you not answer a simple question to yourself,
> > as you sure posted a lot for me to reply to, and I never once said it
> > was a contradiction to the doctrine of the Trinity or the ONE GOD
> > Oneness teachings. You seem not to be able to answer directly to
> > anything.
>
> I answered all the questions you've asked Raymond.
Answered maybe, but are they bible truths, not so. Even a baby can
answer doesn't mean he/she understands what he/she is saying or if
anyone would agree with such answers, when they do not answer the
questions asked according to the Bible.
=
>
> > I sure like in the past you will again try to hide any reply to this,
> > by posting what is already on the newsgroups, another thousand lines
> > of past text. Then that is what you do, so we all can see, you do have
> > something to hide.a
>
> Then you should be able to bring it out into the open, were I really
> hiding something.
I have and all you seem to be able to do, is dump your many lines back
in, hoping in the mess of the multiple words, no one will see your
errors. Which I have in this post and others found and replied to, and
cut out your dumping as the concealing you are doing is to keep the
reader from seeing your errors and lack of bible understanding.
>
>
> >> > Romans 3:30
> >> > 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by
> >> > faith, and uncircumcision through faith. KJV
> >> >
> >> > Paul is saying ONE GOD YES/NO?
> >>
> >> YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
> >
> > You refuse to address the text again.
>
> But I answered the question. One God = Father, Son and Holy Ghost, shall
> justify all according to their own faith. How's that for addressing?
You said above that the One God is three beings, and so can not be One
God. The verses I did give in this post show that God is the Father,
Son and Holy Ghost, ONE God, not three or more beings. That is pagan
teachings of many gods and many beings in their gods.
>
>
> >> > 1 Corinthians 8:6
> >> > 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all
> >> > things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all
> >> > things, and we by him.KJV
> >> >
> >> > YES/NO There is but One God as Paul points out?
> >>
> >> YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
> >
> > You refuse to address the text again.
>
> But I answered the question. I've adressed this scripture many times. All
> things are *OF* the Father and all things are *BY* the Son. THis
> scripture says "Jesus Christ" but others scriptures say "Father and Son",
> and this is simply more proof of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost Godhead.
> Three beings equal 'One God'. How's that for addressing?
>
>
> >> > YES/NO is ther ONE LORD Jesus Christ?
> >>
> >> YES - Doesn't contradict trinitarianism
> >
> > You refuse to address the text again.
>
> But I answered the question. There is only one Lord Jesus Christ just as
> there is only one Father and one Holy Ghost. How's that for addressing?
So what school did you lean to add in? One plus one plus one, plus
one, is three. You have many Gods by that reply, and that is not
biblical.
>
> >> There is indeed only One God. I have no disagreement with you there
> >> Raymond. But the one God is comprised of the Father, Son and Holy
> >> Ghost.
> >
> > That is what I always have said, God is the Father, Son and Holy
> > Ghost, which you been trying to argue against from day one of these
> > post. Now you see the error of your argument, so retreat to what I
> > have said, as your own statment. You are one very weak person.
>
> God IS NOT the 'Father'. Do you agree with me Raymond? God consists of
> "the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost". Do you agree with this
> assessment now Raymond? You should agree since you just alluded that is
> what you "always said".
The Bible sure says God is the Father, so I will agree with the Bible.
I never will agree with pagan teachings as you are providing here.
>
>
> RAYMOND KNAPP IS A PROVEN LIAR!...A PROVEN LIAR...A PROVEN LIAR!
You have proven you will lie, and did so in that silly statement.>
Spazzmodicus
>
> "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a persistent one"
Seems like you are not even in reality with that statement. No wonder
you have a problem.
Rayond
Chaos Entity
> and tolerance, then where did tolerance get anyone? Look at Iraq and
> such, tolerance is a joke, and I think you know that also.
War is caused by intolerence. That's why there needed to be a cover.
The US can't tolerate a country that is a threat to themselves,
therefore justifying the war as national security. Of course we now
see that it was a lie that never would have cleared the Senate.
> Truth is a
> wonderful think, anything else is a lie.
Here are some more:
I like goodness because everything else is bad.
I like silence because everything else is noise.
I like dryness because anything else is wet.
I like cleanliness because everything else is dirty.
> Then why would one want to
> be blessed by a Pagan. I am in no need of your blessing, be like one
> going to die and could live, if they had the medicine, but was told
> bless you, and nothing was given, so they died. Who needs that?
I hope you don't go around blessing people in the name of an arrogant
communist fascist diety. Who needs that? I would much rather receive a
blessing not bound to any additional concept, just a wish for good
fortune. Like the one who could die in your example, would you reject
all "Get Well Soon" cards? It might not be medicine, but it helps in
ways medicine can't.
> Sorry for taking up your time, then you see, I will even answer you,
> and that is not a Holy or unholy War, it just being polite as my
> mother always told me to give an answer. Then so does that Bible, say
> about the same thing.
My mother told me "If you can't say something nice, then don't say
anything at all." That would make for boring conversation.
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) wrote in message news:<53592110.0408...@posting.google.com>...
> > I know peace
> > and tolerance, then where did tolerance get anyone? Look at Iraq and
> > such, tolerance is a joke, and I think you know that also.
>
> War is caused by intolerence. That's why there needed to be a cover.
> The US can't tolerate a country that is a threat to themselves,
> therefore justifying the war as national security. Of course we now
> see that it was a lie that never would have cleared the Senate.
Intolerance is the cause by folks that do not believe anyone but
themselves are correct and only they should be in control. The see
tolerance as submission to them. Which anyone that does want freedom
is then intolerance and to be destroyed. I see the war was just and
will be a blessing to the people of Iraq since Sadam was not elected
he killed the rulers, so his form of tolerance and only his would be
accepted, and of cause the thousands of innocent men, woman and
children as well as babies he had killed show the war was just and the
Senate did clear it and there is no one saying it should not of been.
Except them folks that were ruling by the hand of death, and would see
everything as intolerance if one didn't agree with them. They now are
no being tolerated.
>
> > Truth is a
> > wonderful thing, anything else is a lie.
>
> Here are some more:
> I like goodness because everything else is bad.
> I like silence because everything else is noise.
> I like dryness because anything else is wet.
> I like cleanliness because everything else is dirty.
So you are totally intolerance of anything you do not like?
>
> > Then why would one want to
> > be blessed by a Pagan. I am in no need of your blessing, be like one
> > going to die and could live, if they had the medicine, but was told
> > bless you, and nothing was given, so they died. Who needs that?
>
> I hope you don't go around blessing people in the name of an arrogant
> communist fascist diety. Who needs that? I would much rather receive a
> blessing not bound to any additional concept, just a wish for good
> fortune. Like the one who could die in your example, would you reject
> all "Get Well Soon" cards? It might not be medicine, but it helps in
> ways medicine can't.
I think it is great to just bless people, and then I do such in the
name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Your remarks are silly, for one if one
was a communist they have no deity, as that would be an oxymoron.
Then what goes with the blessings, cash, and trust? Anyone could use
that, no matter what they were blessed in, I would think you may agree
with that. I know few that would turn down a good lot of cash, just
because the one giving it did not bless them the way they would like.
Cash speaks louder then a lot of words in some lives.
I not sure why you had to bring in get well cards etc, I send them out
all the time and visit the sick so to be more personal then a store
printed card.
>
> > Sorry for taking up your time, then you see, I will even answer you,
> > and that is not a Holy or unholy War, it just being polite as my
> > mother always told me to give an answer. Then so does that Bible, say
> > about the same thing.
>
> My mother told me "If you can't say something nice, then don't say
> anything at all." That would make for boring conversation.
Then a lot of folks do not follow what Mom says, and I agree it would
be boring and we would never get to write each other, so hope to see
you again here in the newsgroups.
Raymond
Raymond
> On 26 Aug 2004 18:55:56 -0700, rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) wrote:
>
> >chaos_...@yahoo.com (Chaos Entity) wrote in message news:<b9737995.04082...@posting.google.com>...
> >> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) wrote in message news:<53592110.0408...@posting.google.com>...
>
>
>
> >Intolerance is the cause by folks that do not believe anyone but
> >themselves are correct and only they should be in control.
>
>
> you encounter it! Truth has no problem exposing your heterodoxy;
> it is you who has the 'problem' dealing with TRUTH!
Apply that to yourself Ron, since you just pointed it out and put my
name to it. That would mean, you are intolerant of others. You never
could expose any heterodoxy in me or what I teach. Therefore you need
this crutch to convince yourself, that it is the other guy that is
wrong, when a quick look in the mirror shows it is yours truly.
>
> ><>...Ron...rebuking 'oneness' thru the Word of God!
Which god would that be Ron, since God is very ONENESS, God is the
Father, Son and Holy Ghost. To try to rebuke the "oneness" of God is
silly and most Trinitarians would agree with me on that, that God is
still ONE GOD, no more, no less. All you are exposing is your lack
of knowledge of what the Bible does say.
>
> (1 Peter 1:2 CEV) God the Father decided to choose you as his people,
> and his Spirit has made you holy. You have obeyed Jesus Christ and are
> sprinkled with his blood. I pray that God will be kind to you and will
> keep on giving you peace!
So true, when you qoute the Bible instead of historial documents of
the RRC.
Which god would that be Ron, since God is very ONENESS, God is the
Father, Son and Holy Ghost. To try to rebuke the "oneness" of God is
silly and most Trinitarians would agree with me on that, that God is
still ONE GOD, no more, no less. All you are exposing is your lack
of knowledge of what the Bible does say.
Col 1:13-15
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath
translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness
of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every
creature:
KJV
Col 1:19-20
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to
reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be
things in earth, or things in heaven.
KJV
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.KJV
God bless the reading of HIS Word.
Raymond Knapp
Raymond
> On 25 Aug 2004 14:06:57 -0700, rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) wrote:
>
> >Spazzmodicus <No_Ju...@My.Box> wrote in message news:<Xns954FB38D...@216.168.3.50>...
> >> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) Verbalated the following
> >> news:53592110.04082...@posting.google.com:
>
>
> >> Have a nice day anyway.
> >
> >I do, as my day is in the LORD JESUS CHRIST, The real God and Saviour.
> >
> >Yours truly in Jesus,
> >Raymond
> >www.pioneers-for-JESUS.org if anyone would like to really see who and
> >what I am and do, in the service of the LORD JESUS. Also proves my
> >statements here about this person called Spazzmodicus.
>
>
> Bible prophecy.
I am a living example of one that does demonstrate the power of name
of Jesus. This shows that Bible prophecy is true, and whosoever can
come to the saviour and be clean by the blood of the lamb, and be born
again. Yes I am a witness to the truth that Jesus is God and is also
the Son of God, as well as the Son of man. Only Jesus can save, JESUS
ONLY is the only way to the Father, as Jesus said that by himself, no
man comes to the Father except by Him.
>
> Read below, Raymond, to know your epithet.
Not mine, since you need to point that out, you make yourself a public
liar, judge and in need of some real repenting and seeking
forgiveness. I forgive you, as you seem not to know what you are
doing. As Jesus did on the Cross to others like yourself.
>
>
> (Matthew 7:21-23 ASV)
> 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the
> kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in
> heaven.
> 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy
> by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many
> mighty works?
> 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from
> me, ye that work iniquity.
Then my work and ministry show thousands have followed Jesus in the
last 40 years of laboring in Asia with Jesus as my Lord. My fruit is
there to be seen, and which because it is, you are in deep spiritual
trouble with Christ my Lord and Saviour. I was lost, I was departed
and I was in iniquity, then Jesus came into my heart and life, and now
I am a new creature in Christ Jesus. That old man is no more, and till
you lean the real power of the Blood and the Cross and His love
towards mankind. I fear you may just be the one those words in these
verses will be addressing. Seek forgiviness before it is too late,
and the Lord does return and finds you lacking..... May God have mercy
on your soul.
Raymond
www.pioneers-for-JESUS.org
>
>
> Thank You.
>
> ><>...Ron...rebuking 'oneness' thru the Word of God!
>
Steve Winter
>I am a living example of one that does demonstrate the power of name
>of Jesus.
Let us not forget that the "mighty oneness missionary" claims to
have been saved in a Baptist church BEFORE baptism or the Holy
Ghost. Let us also not forget that the reprobate Knapp promotes
all kind of false doctrine sites on his website.
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >I am a living example of one that does demonstrate the power of name
> >of Jesus.
>
> Let us not forget that the "mighty oneness missionary" claims to
> have been saved in a Baptist church BEFORE baptism or the Holy
> Ghost. Let us also not forget that the reprobate Knapp promotes
> all kind of false doctrine sites on his website.
No mighty oneness missionary, only a humble servant of the Lord Jesus
Christ. Remember Jesus who just happens to be God almighty. Check my
website and see for yourselves, I believer if you look you will it is
for the glory of the Lord and does promote the Kingdom of the God.
Then remember all is false that doesn't agree with the Reprobate Steve
Winter. So check us out and learn the good that God is doing in Jesus
name in Asia and China. www.pioneers-for-JESUS.org
Pastor Raymond Knapp
>
> Pastor sTeve Winter
Steve Winter
>Then remember all is false that doesn't agree with the Reprobate Steve
>Winter.
Anyone can look on my website at my doctrine and see what a liar
Raymond Knapp is. Anyone can look on Raymond's website and see
that he is an infidel.
Pastor Winter
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >Then remember all is false that doesn't agree with the Reprobate Steve
> >Winter.
>
> Anyone can look on my website at my doctrine and see what a liar
> Raymond Knapp is. Anyone can look on Raymond's website and see
> that he is an infidel.
You are silly, "infidel" maybe you been reading too much news from
Iraq and Iran, as your sounding more like the Muslims then ever
before. Check Pioneers FOR JESUS folks and unless you believe Jesus
is NOT GOD, you would call believers as "INFIDELS". Since the Islamic
folks do and now their new friend Steve Winter does. His colors are
shinning all over the place for accepting false teachings. You need
to be saved from your sin, and lying Steve and ONLY JESUS the CHRIST
can do that. Check out the website folks and prove Steve is not only
a liar, but seems to leaning to "Allah" then to JESUS with his
"infidel" remarks. Pray for his soul. May the REAL God Jesus forgive
him.
Raymond
>
> Pastor Winter
Steve Winter
>> Anyone can look on my website at my doctrine and see what a liar
>> Raymond Knapp is. Anyone can look on Raymond's website and see
>> that he is an infidel.
>
>You are silly, "infidel" maybe you been reading too much news from
>Iraq and Iran, as your sounding more like the Muslims then ever
What a lying piece of scum we find in the devilish spiritual
whore Raymond Knapp!
2 Corinthians 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial?
or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
I have no fellowship with the devilish Raymond Knapp.
"Infidels" what does that mean?
Consider the term infidelity? See the association? Consider
also the related concepts of "chaste" vs. "unchaste". This is
also related to "holy" and "unholy".
Can someone who is spiritually unchaste be holy at the same time?
Can an unholy, unchaste person be saved? (I speak of the
unrepentant here).
Isaiah 35:8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it
shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass
over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though
fools, shall not err therein.
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power,
according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the
dead:
Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the
infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members
servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so
now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become
servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end
everlasting life.
2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly
beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the
flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God
is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Holiness is not some optional issue! Salvation depends on it.
The Bible teaches that merely "bearing with" a teacher of false
doctrine makes one "unchaste". Note carefully how Paul is
concerned for their chastity.
Keep in mind the relationship of chastity, fidelity and holiness.
If that is not enough to convince you notice that Paul is talking
about Christians being corrupted!
2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly
jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may
present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve
through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the
simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have
not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not
received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might
well bear with him.
Now see that the great thing that Paul is so fearful of here is
also sin of omission as well. What does it mean to "bear with"
someone? Does it not mean to tolerate? Let's look at
Strongs. It does not mean that we believe Strong was a
Christian to accept that he was an adequate linguist.
430 anechomai {an-ekh’-om-ahee}
middle voice from 303 and 2192; TDNT - 1:359,*; v
AV - suffer 7, bear with 4, forbear 2, endure 2; 15
1) to hold up
2) to hold one’s self erect and firm
3) to sustain, to bear, to endure
Consider Paul's fear for the Church that they would become
unchaste and corrupt like Raymond Knapp, just for "bearing with"
a deceiver like a trinitarian.
There is a generation of so called "Oneness Christians" who are
devoid of even the concept that there exists such a thing a
spiritual chastity, but that is were we get "infidel" from!
This generation is a manifestation of the fruits of a generation
measuring themselves by themselves and their traditions.
2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the
number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves:
but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing
themselves among themselves, are not wise.
Paul gives the Church commandments as well regarding what to do
regarding those who bring false religion to you.
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any
other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you,
let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man
preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let
him be accursed.
Let me mention that the phrase "let him be accursed" appears only
twice in the Bible. Also note that Paul's commandment is the
only commandment that the Bible repeats twice. Some teach that
it is not a commandment but these also,
in my experience also believe in women preachers, double married
preachers and that it is OK for a Saint to attend trinitarian
worship services among other things.
It is a sin to merely "bear with" a trinitarian preacher. Now,
it is important to realize that every trinitarian is not a
preacher, but if a trinitarian is promoting
false doctrines, then they are a "preacher".
Colossians 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in
the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father
by him.
Remember, just to bear with someone teaching a false religion
like Raymond Knapp does is spiritual whoredom. That's right!
What do you thing that "unchaste" means?
There is a wedding supper coming up. There is also Great Whore,
the mother of all trinity denominations! God chose that
terminology, not me!
Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had
the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither;
I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that
sitteth upon many waters:
Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written,
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND
ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
That's right the trinity really is a "mystery" as most
trinitarians will admit because they themselves can't begin to
understand the confusion. It is MYSTERY BABYLON! God is not the
author of confusion!
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
Steve Winter
rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>> Anyone can look on my website at my doctrine and see what a liar
>> Raymond Knapp is. Anyone can look on Raymond's website and see
>> that he is an infidel.
>
>You are silly, "infidel" maybe you been reading too much news from
>Iraq and Iran, as your sounding more like the Muslims then ever
What a lying piece of scum we find in the devilish spiritual
whore Raymond Knapp!
understand the confusion. It is MYSTERY BABYLON! God is not the
author of confusion!
John Fraser
"Steve Winter" <steve....@prime.org> wrote in message
news:vju7j05octjrk8kdv...@4ax.com...
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >> Anyone can look on my website at my doctrine and see what a liar
> >> Raymond Knapp is. Anyone can look on Raymond's website and see
> >> that he is an infidel.
> >
> >You are silly, "infidel" maybe you been reading too much news from
> >Iraq and Iran, as your sounding more like the Muslims then ever
>
> What a lying piece of scum we find in the devilish spiritual
> whore Raymond Knapp!
>
> 2 Corinthians 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial?
> or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
>
> I have no fellowship with the devilish Raymond Knapp.
Um, what do you think you have been doing for the past two years? You
keep calling us scum and infidels, yet you never go away. Methinks you
speak with forked tongue.
>
> "Infidels" what does that mean?
>
> Consider the term infidelity? See the association? Consider
> also the related concepts of "chaste" vs. "unchaste". This is
> also related to "holy" and "unholy".
>
> Can someone who is spiritually unchaste be holy at the same time?
> Can an unholy, unchaste person be saved? (I speak of the
> unrepentant here).
Um, infidel equates to being not worthy. What association about
infdelity are you referring to? You defined nothing and compared nothing.
We're all unrepentant at something. Many have suggested that you soften
your behaviour. You carry on in complete rebellion, even to scriptural
advice. Your excuse is that if we can misbehave, so can you. So, please
spare us the lectures on holiness, fidelity, and righteousness as your
plethora of proven conduct on Usenet merits none of those terms.
What I suspect brought you into conflict with your past ISP's is your
reported behaviour. You like to pick fights, same as you did here. Being
true to form, you then picked fights with your provider declaring that if
you have to behave, then everyone has to behave.
That's not the message your scriptures convey, nor is that the message
Scripture conveys. The Bible declares that we are to be obedient regardless
of what others do. Paul, John, Peter, and James repeated the message and
emphasized it with the joy of having a good character, or being of good
report. It's your choice. There is a reason you don't advertise your
church in the City Directory. Why are you hiding your light under a bushel?
As for Mr. Knapp having links to other churches, it stands to reason if
he declares he was saved in a Baptist church. I submit that it seems
contradictory if he propounds modalism. But then, what was the UPC/UPCI
before 1906? And what was it before that? If we truly love God, then we
love our fellow man, even when they disagree with us. Mr. Knapp and I have
had our disagreements in the past, but I wish him all the best in his
ministry. I also wish you the same. Whether you share that opinion is
irrelevant to me. Phil 4:8.
Cheers,
John
Steve Winter
> As for Mr. Knapp having links to other churches, it stands to reason if
>he declares he was saved in a Baptist church. I submit that it seems
>contradictory if he propounds modalism.
Even a stopped clock is correct twice a day. Even a devilish imp
like John Fraser gets it right once and a while.
In case you are inclined to consider Mr. Fraser in any way
honest or sincere, see http://www.impsmail.org/fraser.html
He is a malicious little troll grasping at straws in a
desperate attempt to try to appear to "be somebody" at
someone else's expense.
Pastor sTeve Winter
Raymond
> Good morning Steve;
>
> "Steve Winter" <steve....@prime.org> wrote in message
> news:vju7j05octjrk8kdv...@4ax.com...
> > rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
> >
> > >> Anyone can look on my website at my doctrine and see what a liar
> > >> Raymond Knapp is. Anyone can look on Raymond's website and see
> > >> that he is an infidel.
> > >
> > >You are silly, "infidel" maybe you been reading too much news from
> > >Iraq and Iran, as your sounding more like the Muslims then ever
> >
> > What a lying piece of scum we find in the devilish spiritual
> > whore Raymond Knapp!
> >
> > 2 Corinthians 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial?
> > or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
> >
> > I have no fellowship with the devilish Raymond Knapp.
>
> Um, what do you think you have been doing for the past two years? You
> keep calling us scum and infidels, yet you never go away. Methinks you
> speak with forked tongue.
I suppose you are correct, since he is fellowshipping us folks every
time he writes about us, here in these newsgroups. I do think he has
a tongue like a snake, and the devil would be proud of him.
>
> >
> > "Infidels" what does that mean?
> >
> > Consider the term infidelity? See the association? Consider
> > also the related concepts of "chaste" vs. "unchaste". This is
> > also related to "holy" and "unholy".
> >
> > Can someone who is spiritually unchaste be holy at the same time?
> > Can an unholy, unchaste person be saved? (I speak of the
> > unrepentant here).
>
> Um, infidel equates to being not worthy. What association about
> infdelity are you referring to? You defined nothing and compared nothing.
> We're all unrepentant at something. Many have suggested that you soften
> your behaviour. You carry on in complete rebellion, even to scriptural
> advice. Your excuse is that if we can misbehave, so can you. So, please
> spare us the lectures on holiness, fidelity, and righteousness as your
> plethora of proven conduct on Usenet merits none of those terms.
I dare say, a lot of readers would say a big Amen to that.
>
> What I suspect brought you into conflict with your past ISP's is your
> reported behaviour. You like to pick fights, same as you did here. Being
> true to form, you then picked fights with your provider declaring that if
> you have to behave, then everyone has to behave.
>
> That's not the message your scriptures convey, nor is that the message
> Scripture conveys. The Bible declares that we are to be obedient regardless
> of what others do. Paul, John, Peter, and James repeated the message and
> emphasized it with the joy of having a good character, or being of good
> report. It's your choice. There is a reason you don't advertise your
> church in the City Directory. Why are you hiding your light under a bushel?
>
> As for Mr. Knapp having links to other churches, it stands to reason if
> he declares he was saved in a Baptist church. I submit that it seems
> contradictory if he propounds modalism. But then, what was the UPC/UPCI
> before 1906? And what was it before that? If we truly love God, then we
> love our fellow man, even when they disagree with us. Mr. Knapp and I have
> had our disagreements in the past, but I wish him all the best in his
> ministry. I also wish you the same. Whether you share that opinion is
> irrelevant to me. Phil 4:8.
Well John I don't propound modalism as the UPCI does and some others,
I do believe as they did in the Old Testament that God is One God, and
there is no other. I do believe that God is the Father, Son and Holy
Ghost/Spirit. I also believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and
only by him can one come to the Father, since Jesus said so, himself.
Then I have no problem with the Apostles Creed either. I was saved
in the Southern Baptist Church as it was the first time I heard that
Jesus really loved me, and would accept me as I was a lost filthy
sinner. Had nothing to do with a belief in the Godhead, it never came
up. I was raised as an Episcopal Methodist, before they became UMC,
and rejected all that at 12 years old, and then the only one that
dared share Christ with my SSgt. was a Baptist, I been out of church
for about 8 years, so when I was told I could find Jesus I did.
Winter has a fit over that, I asked him if he feel better if I said I
found the Lord in a Bar room, one night when I was drunk, or was the
Baptist so strong that even God could not get into their church to
save someone. Well I not interested in modalism or trinity, persons
and such, just that a person comes to Jesus by faith and let Him
control their life as the LORD, baptism and such is for the believer,
not what makes them a believer or what makes them saved. Winter seems
to think it is the Water of baptism that saves, and since only a few
Trinity churches I heard about would baptize in Jesus name, he sees
all lost. It been my pleasure to write to you and hear what you have
to say on all these matters. Then really it doesn't to Mr. Winter, he
has ears and doesn't hear, eyes but can not see.
Cheers,
Raymond Knapp
>
> Cheers,
> John
Raymond
> rwk...@hotmail.com (Raymond) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >> Anyone can look on my website at my doctrine and see what a liar
> >> Raymond Knapp is. Anyone can look on Raymond's website and see
> >> that he is an infidel.
> >
> >You are silly, "infidel" maybe you been reading too much news from
> >Iraq and Iran, as your sounding more like the Muslims then ever
>
> What a lying piece of scum we find in the devilish spiritual
> whore Raymond Knapp!
You need to find Jesus as Lord and saviour, you going off the mental
deep end with this post.
>
> 2 Corinthians 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial?
> or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
>
> I have no fellowship with the devilish Raymond Knapp.
Then you have no fellowship with anyone, anyway. Then the devil has
no fellowship with me either, so you are in good company with you
demons Mr. Winter.
>
> "Infidels" what does that mean?
>
> Consider the term infidelity? See the association? Consider
> also the related concepts of "chaste" vs. "unchaste". This is
> also related to "holy" and "unholy".
I suppose you having a child out of wedlock is not "unchasted" your
nothing but a demon in your thinking.
>
> Can someone who is spiritually unchaste be holy at the same time?
> Can an unholy, unchaste person be saved? (I speak of the
> unrepentant here).
Such as you and your woman that you did not marry, but took another
for a wife later, you have nothing to say, about unchasted people. I
still with the only woman I have ever known, for 41 years now.
>
> Isaiah 35:8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it
> shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass
> over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though
> fools, shall not err therein.
>
> Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power,
> according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the
> dead:
>
> Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the
> infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members
> servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so
> now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
>
> Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become
> servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end
> everlasting life.
>
> 2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly
> beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the
> flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
>
> Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God
> is created in righteousness and true holiness.
>
> Holiness is not some optional issue! Salvation depends on it.
So you are lost, as salvation depends on JESUS and the BLOOD, which it
is clear yours is by works without the CROSS.
>
> The Bible teaches that merely "bearing with" a teacher of false
> doctrine makes one "unchaste". Note carefully how Paul is
> concerned for their chastity.
> Keep in mind the relationship of chastity, fidelity and holiness.
> If that is not enough to convince you notice that Paul is talking
> about Christians being corrupted!
Yes he is talking right to you Steve and your life.
>
> 2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly
> jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may
> present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
> 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve
> through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the
> simplicity that is in Christ.
> 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have
> not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not
> received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might
> well bear with him.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and even you Steve Ray Winter could
someday be saved.
Raymond Knapp
> Pastor Winter
Steve Winter
eh?
You are the scum on record believing in "triunity", reprobate
Knapp.
Raymond Knapp is a reprobate spiritual slut trying to put himself
over as "Oneness missionary".
Some of his email harassment and behaviour is documented at
http://www.impsmail.org/knapp.html in case anyone is inclined
to take him seriously.
Can you say "communist sympathizer", Mr. Knapp? Of COURSE the
communists leave you alone, Mr. Knapp, you are their bubba.
Pastor sTeve Winter