Translation requested (kannada)
Eswar Josyula
composition of Sri Purandara Daasa giving us a glimpse of the
relationship of Yashoda mayya and Krishna. I heard this song in
Revathi ragam, adi tala.
The importance that Sri Vaadiraja Teertha gave to "smara krishna bhaja
harim", there is a composition of Sri Purandara Daasa, "naranada mele"
which has the tone of trying to wake up the sleeping conditioned souls
of this age by doing hari naama. The jihva (tongue) in a conditioned
souls goes after palatable dishes and talking nonsense (here nonsense
refers to anything other than krishna-katha). Sri Purandara Daasa
recommends engaging the tongue in doing hari naama.
Naranada mele is sung in madhyama sruti - this means "ma" instead of
the first "sa" (in the sa-pa-sa sruti), in the naadanaam kriya raga,
adi talam. This song is in the Purandara Dasa kriti tape made by
SriVenkateswara temple, Pittsburgh. Songs on one side of this tape are
sung by RKSrikantan in which two songs are my favorite;
"noduvudekannu" and "naranada mele". The higher pitch for "naranada
mele" due to the madhyama is good for "waking" us up. As before, I
request translation of this kannada script into english. Thanks in
advance.
Haribol
Eswar Josyula
Composer: Sri Purandara Daasa Ragam: Naadanaam Kriya Talam: Adi
nara naada mele hari naama jihveOdira beku
1. Bhoota daya para naagira beku
paataka vellava kaLayali beku
maatu maatige harienna beku
nara naada mele hari naama ...
2. Aaru varga vanu aLi-ali beku
mooru gulangala meeraLi beku
seri brahma nodu sukhisaa beku
nara naada mele hari naama ...
3. banda dundu sukhisa beku
ninda stuti gaLa taalali beku
tande purandara vittalaayana beku
nara naada mele hari naama ...
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anand hudli
This is one of Purandara daasa's songs, where he instructs the
listener about the importance of naama sankiirtana, and a little
bit of philosophy too.
In article <4ipm1d$d...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>,
Eswar Josyula <76142...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>Naranada mele is sung in madhyama sruti - this means "ma" instead of
>the first "sa" (in the sa-pa-sa sruti), in the naadanaam kriya raga,
>adi talam. This song is in the Purandara Dasa kriti tape made by
>SriVenkateswara temple, Pittsburgh. Songs on one side of this tape are
>sung by RKSrikantan in which two songs are my favorite;
>"noduvudekannu" and "naranada mele". The higher pitch for "naranada
>mele" due to the madhyama is good for "waking" us up. As before, I
>request translation of this kannada script into english. Thanks in
>advance.
>
>Haribol
>
>Eswar Josyula
>
>
> Composer: Sri Purandara Daasa Ragam: Naadanaam Kriya Talam: Adi
>
> nara naada mele hari naama jihveOdira beku
Once (you are born) as a human, you should chant
the name of Hari,
>
>
>1. Bhoota daya para naagira beku
bhuutadayaaparanaagira beku
be compassionate to all creatures,
> paataka vellava kaLayali beku
paatakavella kaLeyalu beku
give up all things which lead to sin,
> maatu maatige harienna beku
with each word, utter the name of Hari,
> nara naada mele hari naama ...
>
>2. Aaru varga vanu aLi-ali beku
aaru vargavanu aLiyalu beku
conquer the six enemies, (kaama, krodha, lobha,
mada, moha, and matsara), viz. desire, anger, greed,
intoxication, delusion and envy,
> mooru gulangala meeraLi beku
muuru gaNangaLa miiralu beku
go beyond the three objects of life, (dharma, artha,
and kaama), viz. religiosity, wealth, and desire for
enjoyment,
> seri brahma nodu sukhisaa beku
seri brahmanoLu sukhisabeku
merge into Brahman and enjoy bliss,
> nara naada mele hari naama ...
[ There are a few intervening lines in my book of
Purandara daasa's padas, which I mention below.]
ashhTamadangaLa tiLiyalu beku
know the eight kinds of intoxication (madness), such as
intoxication due to wealth, physical beauty, youth, power, etc.
(I have not been able to identify these eight madnesses. Perhaps
someone else will.)
dushhTara sangava biDalu beku
give up the company of the wicked,
kR^ishhNa keshava enna beku
chant the names Krishna and Keshava,
naranaada mele harinaama ...
veda shaastravanOdalu beku
study the vedas and shaastras,
bhedahankaarava niigalu beku
give up the perception of differences, and your ego,
maadhava smaraNeyoLirabeku
be absorbed in the thoughts of Maadhava,
naranaada mele harinaama ...
shaanti kshhame daye piDiyalu beku
practise forgiveness, peace, and compassion,
bhraanti krodhava kaLeyalu beku
give up false notions and anger,
santara sangadi ratiyirabeku
be attached to the company of saints,
naranaada mele harinaama ...
guruvina charaNakkeragalu beku
bow to the feet of the Guru,
taruNOpaayavanariyalu beku
discover new solutions to (the problem of samsaaric existence),
virakti maargadalirabeku
accept the path of detachment,
naranaada mele harinaama ...
[Now back to your version of the song.]
>
>3. banda dundu sukhisa beku
bandadduNDu sukhisalu beku
accept whatever is given to you (by God) with happiness,
> ninda stuti gaLa taalali beku
nindaa stutigaLa taaLalu beku
bear censure and praise (with equanimity),
> tande purandara vittalaayana beku
tande purandara viTThalana neneyabeku
remember the Father, Purandara ViTThala.
> nara naada mele hari naama ...
Jaya PaanDuranga ViTThala
Anand
Eswar Josyula
anand hudli <ahu...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote:
Message-ID: <4j70b1$o...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
:This is one of Purandara daasa's songs, where he instructs the
:listener about the importance of naama sankiirtana, and a little
:bit of philosophy too.
:[*deleted*]
: ashhTamadangaLa tiLiyalu beku
:
: know the eight kinds of intoxication (madness), such as
: intoxication due to wealth, physical beauty, youth, power, etc.
: (I have not been able to identify these eight madnesses. Perhaps
: someone else will.)
There are the five kinds of impediments to devotion:
pride, over-emphasis on learning, status in society, beauty, and youth.
Then there are the eight kinds of vices that follow anger:
injustice, rashness, persecution, jealousy, captiousness, cheating,
harsh words, and cruelty.
:[*deleted*]
Haribol
Eswar Josyula
ramachandra (s.r.) srivatsa
>
> This is one of Purandara daasa's songs, where he instructs the
> listener about the importance of naama sankiirtana, and a little
> bit of philosophy too.
[lot of info deleted]
> tande purandara viTThalana neneyabeku
>
> remember the Father, Purandara ViTThala.
>
> Jaya PaanDuranga ViTThala
>
> Anand
I heard that the 'ankita' "tande Purandara viTTala" was used by
Sri Purandara Dasa's daughter. Can anybody shed more light on it?
ramachandra.
--
Hari Sarvothama,
Vayu Jeevothama.
Shrisha Rao
> This is one of Purandara daasa's songs, where he instructs the
> listener about the importance of naama sankiirtana, and a little
> bit of philosophy too.
Quite a lot of philosophy, I'd say...
> > Composer: Sri Purandara Daasa Ragam: Naadanaam Kriya Talam: Adi
>
> > nara naada mele hari naama jihveOdira beku
>
> naranaada mele harinaama jihveyoLirabeku
>
> Once (you are born) as a human, you should chant
> the name of Hari,
`jihveyoLirabeku' means "should reside in the tongue." The slight
difference with what Anand is saying, is one of emphasis; if the Lord's
name is "resident in the tongue," then
1> all use(s) of the tongue are in His service only;
2> the use of the tongue for His service is constant.
-- whereas, if one is to "chant the name of Hari," then the constancy
of service is not as strongly emphasized, and it is also not as obvious
that the nature of the sense-organ itself is altered.
> >1. Bhoota daya para naagira beku
>
> bhuutadayaaparanaagira beku
>
> be compassionate to all creatures,
Throughout the song, the tone is not actually one of addressing someone
and saying "do this." For instance, the above is actually saying:
"One must be exceedingly compassionate to [all] creatures."
> > paataka vellava kaLayali beku
>
> paatakavella kaLeyalu beku
>
> give up all things which lead to sin,
`kaLeyalu' would be closer to "must lose," actually. Thus:
"One must lose all sins."
> > maatu maatige harienna beku
>
> with each word, utter the name of Hari,
> > nara naada mele hari naama ...
Notice that the use is "maatu maatige" and not "shabda shabdake,"
which would better suit the above interpretation; a better one would be
"One must say 'Hari' at the least excuse/reason."
"maatu maatige" is more often applied in Kannada to mean excuse, as in
the case of some bore being accused of bringing up his favorite topic
at the drop of a hat.
> >2. Aaru varga vanu aLi-ali beku
> aaru vargavanu aLiyalu beku
>
> conquer the six enemies, (kaama, krodha, lobha,
> mada, moha, and matsara), viz. desire, anger, greed,
> intoxication, delusion and envy,
`aLiyalu' would be closer to "destroy." Purandara Daasa has said
elsewhere (as a metaphor) "aLidaLidhoguva makkaLu etake" to mean "what
is the use of having children that pre-decease you?" -- it makes no
sense to interpret that as meaning "what is the use of having children
whom you conquer?"
Moreover, it makes no sense to "conquer" vices; it makes sense to
completely *destroy* them.
Besides, `Aru-varga' means "six-fold." Thus,
"One must destroy the six-fold [vices]."
> > mooru gulangala meeraLi beku
>
> muuru gaNangaLa miiralu beku
>
> go beyond the three objects of life, (dharma, artha,
> and kaama), viz. religiosity, wealth, and desire for
> enjoyment,
'mUru guNaN^gaLa' means "the three gUNas." The line is similar to
Krishna's injunction "nistraiguNyo bhavArjuna." Thus, the line is:
"One must exceed the scope of the three guNas (sattva, rajas, tamas)."
The idea is that objects of the senses, and all of prakrti as such, are
of the three guNas, whilst the Lord is not; thus, one's objective must
be He that is beyond the three guNas, rather than sense-objects.
> > seri brahma nodu sukhisaa beku
>
> seri brahmanoLu sukhisabeku
>
> merge into Brahman and enjoy bliss,
'seri' means "having reached." Thus,
"Having reached Brahman, one must rejoice in Him."
The Advaitic idea of "merge into Brahman" is not conveyed; after all
Purandara Daasa was not a proponent of Advaita.
> > nara naada mele hari naama ...
>
> [ There are a few intervening lines in my book of
> Purandara daasa's padas, which I mention below.]
>
> ashhTamadangaLa tiLiyalu beku
>
> know the eight kinds of intoxication (madness), such as
> intoxication due to wealth, physical beauty, youth, power, etc.
> (I have not been able to identify these eight madnesses. Perhaps
> someone else will.)
Unfortunately, I don't recall the complete list either. However, it may
be of interest to some to know that this list of eight are the exact
same causes that bring flaw in powrusheya compositions; any flaw in an
authored composition can ultimately be traced to one of these weaknesses
or shortcomings in its author. I believe the list of eight is given in
the Tattva-sankhyaana, but I don't have a copy of that, unfortunately.
It may also be given in the 'Sudhaa.
In addition, 'mada' meaning "intoxication," as Anand suggests, is
actually one of the eight. The reason the eight are collectively called
the "eight intoxications" is by virtue of the practice where the most
important member of a set is used to refer to the set itself. For
instance, 'aksha' means eye, but since the eye is the most important of
the five senses, it is also used to refer to any of the five senses, or
to sense-interaction of any kind. Thus, "akshaadi traya" means "the
triad of sense-interactions, etc.," and not "the triad of the eye, etc."
So also, 'mada' is, in this case, shown to be the most important of the
eight weaknesses of an individual.
> dushhTara sangava biDalu beku
>
> give up the company of the wicked,
>
> kR^ishhNa keshava enna beku
>
> chant the names Krishna and Keshava,
"One must say Krishna, Keshava..."
> naranaada mele harinaama ...
>
> veda shaastravanOdalu beku
>
> study the vedas and shaastras,
>
> bhedahankaarava niigalu beku
>
> give up the perception of differences, and your ego,
This again is wrongly interpreted in an Advaitic fashion.
'bhedAhankaara' does not mean "differences _and_ ego"; the "and" is not
conveyed.
What the word is saying is that one must not perceive oneself as being
independently potent of the Lord and rejoice in this false knowledge.
If one considers prides oneself as being able apart from the Lord,
then one is actually arrogating His unique quality to oneself, and is
_ignoring_ difference: thus, the injunction is to _observe_
difference, not to ignore it. Therefore:
"One must get rid of the vainglory of independent potency."
> maadhava smaraNeyoLirabeku
>
> be absorbed in the thoughts of Maadhava,
'smaraNe' -- remembrances; memories.
> naranaada mele harinaama ...
>
> shaanti kshhame daye piDiyalu beku
>
> practise forgiveness, peace, and compassion,
>
> bhraanti krodhava kaLeyalu beku
>
> give up false notions and anger,
As before, 'kaLeyalu' means "lose."
> santara sangadi ratiyirabeku
>
> be attached to the company of saints,
>
> naranaada mele harinaama ...
>
> guruvina charaNakkeragalu beku
>
> bow to the feet of the Guru,
>
> taruNOpaayavanariyalu beku
>
> discover new solutions to (the problem of samsaaric existence),
'taruNOpAya' does mean new solution; however, it need not mean new
solutions to samsaara as such, because that doesn't seem to fit the
context too well. Instead, this line is actually saying that devotion
to Lord is a new solution, because there are many attempts we make to
get rid of misery, but worldly solutions do not seem to work. Thus, the
"new solution" is to take refuge in the Lord. In the Krishnaamrta-mahA-
arNava, Ananda Tiirtha says:
tApatrayeNa sa.ntaptaM yadetadakhilaM jagat.h |
vaxyAmi shA.ntaye hi asya kR^ishhNAmR^ita mahArNavam.h ||
The whole world is subject to the three kinds of suffering;
to remove those, I state (reveal) the great forest of Krishna's amrta.
Also, 'ariyalu' does not mean "discover" -- it means get a good grasp
of, take to heart, etc.
Thus, devotion is itself the "new solution," and the line may be taken
as an advertizement for us to learn and practice what's stated:
"One must understand well the new solution [of devotion to Krishna]."
> virakti maargadalirabeku
>
> accept the path of detachment,
"One must _persist_ in the path of detachment."
> naranaada mele harinaama ...
>
> [Now back to your version of the song.]
>
>
> >3. banda dundu sukhisa beku
>
> bandadduNDu sukhisalu beku
>
> accept whatever is given to you (by God) with happiness,
'unDu' means "eat," or "consume."
"Consume whatever comes, and rejoice."
> > ninda stuti gaLa taalali beku
>
> nindaa stutigaLa taaLalu beku
>
> bear censure and praise (with equanimity),
>
> > tande purandara vittalaayana beku
>
> tande purandara viTThalana neneyabeku
>
> remember the Father, Purandara ViTThala.
> > nara naada mele hari naama ...
>
Regards,
Shrisha Rao
> Jaya PaanDuranga ViTThala
>
> Anand
anand hudli
In article <4jv6di$a...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>,
Shrisha Rao <sh...@nyx.net> wrote:
>On March 25, 1996, anand hudli <ahu...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>
the song bearing in mind that it would be subjected to a microscopic
analysis! Second, I did not do a literal translation, since I felt
that was not in keeping with the nature of the newsgroup. If the
article had related to a literary discussion, probably I would have
done a different translation.
Now, there are a lot of songs that are counted as Purandara daasa's
pada's. Obviously, not every song that claims to be a composition of
the saint is one, even if it bears the characteristic signature,
"Purandara ViThala." A great many songs are simply compositions of
lesser known or anonymous poets of all kinds of backgrounds. Such
being the case, one sees songs containing different philosophical
ideas. According to tradition, Purandara daasa is said to have been
a disciple of Vyaasa tiirtha. So one would expect to see dvaitic
ideas in at least some of his compositions. In others, it would be
difficult to say whether the composer was Purandara daasa himself
before he had training under Vyaasatiirtha, or some other poet.
Consider for example:
yaarige yaaruNTu eravina samsaara
niiramelina guLLe nijavalla hariye
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Here the saint remarks that samsaara is like a water-bubble, temporary, and
not real! This is totally against dvaita which says "satyam jagat."
I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this song in the book of
Purandara daasa's pada's and I couldn't believe my ears when I heard
it being sung by Sri VidyabhuushhaNa Svaamii! I hope he was not admonished
by one of your senior MaThaadhipati's. By the way, I liked the tune set
in Shivaranjani (Hindustani) very much.
But that is daasa saahitya, not prasthaana traya.
>
>`jihveyoLirabeku' means "should reside in the tongue." The slight
>difference with what Anand is saying, is one of emphasis; if the Lord's
>name is "resident in the tongue," then
>
>1> all use(s) of the tongue are in His service only;
>2> the use of the tongue for His service is constant.
>
>-- whereas, if one is to "chant the name of Hari," then the constancy
>of service is not as strongly emphasized, and it is also not as obvious
>that the nature of the sense-organ itself is altered.
OK.
>
>> >1. Bhoota daya para naagira beku
>>
>> bhuutadayaaparanaagira beku
>>
>> be compassionate to all creatures,
>
>Throughout the song, the tone is not actually one of addressing someone
>and saying "do this." For instance, the above is actually saying:
>
>"One must be exceedingly compassionate to [all] creatures."
Microscopic Analysis Not Necessary (MANN)!
(Please note this acronymn. I'll be using it frequently while
arguing with dvaitins. :-) )
>
>> > paataka vellava kaLayali beku
>>
>> paatakavella kaLeyalu beku
>>
>> give up all things which lead to sin,
>
>`kaLeyalu' would be closer to "must lose," actually. Thus:
>
>"One must lose all sins."
>
>> > maatu maatige harienna beku
>>
>> with each word, utter the name of Hari,
>> > nara naada mele hari naama ...
>
>Notice that the use is "maatu maatige" and not "shabda shabdake,"
>which would better suit the above interpretation; a better one would be
>
>"One must say 'Hari' at the least excuse/reason."
OK.
>
>"maatu maatige" is more often applied in Kannada to mean excuse, as in
>the case of some bore being accused of bringing up his favorite topic
>at the drop of a hat.
>
>> >2. Aaru varga vanu aLi-ali beku
>> aaru vargavanu aLiyalu beku
>>
>> conquer the six enemies, (kaama, krodha, lobha,
>> mada, moha, and matsara), viz. desire, anger, greed,
>> intoxication, delusion and envy,
>
>`aLiyalu' would be closer to "destroy." Purandara Daasa has said
>elsewhere (as a metaphor) "aLidaLidhoguva makkaLu etake" to mean "what
>is the use of having children that pre-decease you?" -- it makes no
>sense to interpret that as meaning "what is the use of having children
>whom you conquer?"
>
>Moreover, it makes no sense to "conquer" vices; it makes sense to
>completely *destroy* them.
However, if you talk of the six enemies, "conquer" also is
an appropriate term (at least in English).
>
>Besides, `Aru-varga' means "six-fold." Thus,
>
>"One must destroy the six-fold [vices]."
>
>> > mooru gulangala meeraLi beku
>>
>> muuru gaNangaLa miiralu beku
>>
>> go beyond the three objects of life, (dharma, artha,
>> and kaama), viz. religiosity, wealth, and desire for
>> enjoyment,
>
>'mUru guNaN^gaLa' means "the three gUNas." The line is similar to
>Krishna's injunction "nistraiguNyo bhavArjuna." Thus, the line is:
>
>"One must exceed the scope of the three guNas (sattva, rajas, tamas)."
>
>The idea is that objects of the senses, and all of prakrti as such, are
>of the three guNas, whilst the Lord is not; thus, one's objective must
>be He that is beyond the three guNas, rather than sense-objects.
This could be appropriate if the text is "guNa" rather than
"gaNa."
>
>> > seri brahma nodu sukhisaa beku
>>
>> seri brahmanoLu sukhisabeku
>>
>> merge into Brahman and enjoy bliss,
>
>'seri' means "having reached." Thus,
>
>"Having reached Brahman, one must rejoice in Him."
>
>The Advaitic idea of "merge into Brahman" is not conveyed; after all
>Purandara Daasa was not a proponent of Advaita.
Please see the comments in the beginning.
>
>> > nara naada mele hari naama ...
>>
>> [ There are a few intervening lines in my book of
>> Purandara daasa's padas, which I mention below.]
>>
>> ashhTamadangaLa tiLiyalu beku
>>
>> know the eight kinds of intoxication (madness), such as
>> intoxication due to wealth, physical beauty, youth, power, etc.
>> (I have not been able to identify these eight madnesses. Perhaps
>> someone else will.)
>
>In addition, 'mada' meaning "intoxication," as Anand suggests, is
>actually one of the eight. The reason the eight are collectively called
>the "eight intoxications" is by virtue of the practice where the most
>important member of a set is used to refer to the set itself. For
>instance, 'aksha' means eye, but since the eye is the most important of
>the five senses, it is also used to refer to any of the five senses, or
>to sense-interaction of any kind. Thus, "akshaadi traya" means "the
>triad of sense-interactions, etc.," and not "the triad of the eye, etc."
No. If mada had meant one of eight weaknesses, the text would have
said "madaadi ashhTakavanu ..." Since it says "ashhTamada", it can only
mean eight kinds of mada. Example, shhaDripu means six enemies,
guNatraya means three guNas, etc.
>
>So also, 'mada' is, in this case, shown to be the most important of the
>eight weaknesses of an individual.
No.
>
>> dushhTara sangava biDalu beku
>>
>> give up the company of the wicked,
>>
>> kR^ishhNa keshava enna beku
>>
>> chant the names Krishna and Keshava,
>
>"One must say Krishna, Keshava..."
MANN!
>
>> naranaada mele harinaama ...
>>
>> veda shaastravanOdalu beku
>>
>> study the vedas and shaastras,
>>
>> bhedahankaarava niigalu beku
>>
>> give up the perception of differences, and your ego,
>
>This again is wrongly interpreted in an Advaitic fashion.
>
>'bhedAhankaara' does not mean "differences _and_ ego"; the "and" is not
>conveyed.
Depends on how you analyse the compound word. bhedaH ahankaarashcha
means bheda and ahankaara. Here dvandva seems more sensible than
your tatpurushha interpretation, which appears convoluted.
>
>What the word is saying is that one must not perceive oneself as being
>independently potent of the Lord and rejoice in this false knowledge.
>If one considers prides oneself as being able apart from the Lord,
>then one is actually arrogating His unique quality to oneself, and is
>_ignoring_ difference: thus, the injunction is to _observe_
>difference, not to ignore it. Therefore:
>
>"One must get rid of the vainglory of independent potency."
>
>> maadhava smaraNeyoLirabeku
>>
>> be absorbed in the thoughts of Maadhava,
>
>'smaraNe' -- remembrances; memories.
MANN!
>
>> naranaada mele harinaama ...
>>
>> shaanti kshhame daye piDiyalu beku
>>
>> practise forgiveness, peace, and compassion,
>>
>
>> virakti maargadalirabeku
>>
>> accept the path of detachment,
>
>"One must _persist_ in the path of detachment."
A more literal translation would be
"one must be in the path of detachment"
>
>> naranaada mele harinaama ...
>>
>> [Now back to your version of the song.]
>>
>>
>> >3. banda dundu sukhisa beku
>>
>> bandadduNDu sukhisalu beku
>>
>> accept whatever is given to you (by God) with happiness,
>
>'unDu' means "eat," or "consume."
>
>"Consume whatever comes, and rejoice."
MANN! On second thoughts, I must say that unDu does not just
imply "eat" or "consume." In an idiomatic sense, it means "experience."
One may get good things or bad things, but one must accept either
with the same attitude.
Shrisha Rao
<ahu...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote:
> In article <4jv6di$a...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>,
> Shrisha Rao <sh...@nyx.net> wrote:
> >On March 25, 1996, anand hudli <ahu...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>
> At the outset, I would like to remark that I did not translate
> the song bearing in mind that it would be subjected to a microscopic
> analysis!
One learns something new, every day...
> Second, I did not do a literal translation, since I felt
> that was not in keeping with the nature of the newsgroup. If the
> article had related to a literary discussion, probably I would have
> done a different translation.
What is the meaning of `saahitya' in "daasa saahitya"? Something close
to, if not the same as, "literature," I believe. As such, claiming
that the subject of the posting was not literary is ludicrous. If
daasa saahitya is unsuited to this newsgroup, that's fine, but the
former cannot become something other than itself, to fit this
newsgroup. Moreover, the interpretations, literal or not, were in
several cases inconsistent with the tenets of Tattvavaada, which are
in all cases the substratum of Purandara Daasa's and his lineage's
compositions. The following excuse is quite disingenious:
> Now, there are a lot of songs that are counted as Purandara daasa's
> pada's. Obviously, not every song that claims to be a composition of
> the saint is one, even if it bears the characteristic signature,
> "Purandara ViThala."
-- for one thing, there is *no* evidence that any composition widely
regarded as Purandara Daasa's is in fact not by him; moreover, it also
makes no sense to try to give such explanations to explain one's
digressions from the doctrine known to have been accepted by famous
personages. To a very great extent, for instance, it is plausible if
not true that not all works and compositions claimed to have been
authored by Shankara are in fact his; however, I cannot cite this as
an excuse for misinterpreting any work said to be his, in any manner
inconsistent with Advaita. If I hold that some work is not in fact by
him, then it is an anonymous composition that cannot receive the same
regard as one by him, period. But if I do go ahead and give such a
work regard as Shankara's, then my interpretations should be
consistent with Advaita even if I do not accept it myself.
Lastly, that this explanation is an ad hoc hypothesis is made clear by
reading the very title of this thread: "Purandaradasa's naranaada
mele." If indeed it had been your view that this work is not by him,
would you not have said this earlier, instead of simply persisting
with the title without comment?
> A great many songs are simply compositions of
> lesser known or anonymous poets of all kinds of backgrounds. Such
> being the case, one sees songs containing different philosophical
> ideas. According to tradition, Purandara daasa is said to have been
> a disciple of Vyaasa tiirtha. So one would expect to see dvaitic
> ideas in at least some of his compositions. In others, it would be
> difficult to say whether the composer was Purandara daasa himself
> before he had training under Vyaasatiirtha, or some other poet.
Rubbish. If one cannot see that a certain composition of Purandara
Daasa's is actually in line with Tattvavaada, then one has surely
misunderstood, that's all.
> Consider for example:
>
> yaarige yaaruNTu eravina samsaara
> niiramelina guLLe nijavalla hariye
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Here the saint remarks that samsaara is like a water-bubble, temporary, and
> not real! This is totally against dvaita which says "satyam jagat."
> I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this song in the book of
> Purandara daasa's pada's and I couldn't believe my ears when I heard
> it being sung by Sri VidyabhuushhaNa Svaamii! I hope he was not admonished
> by one of your senior MaThaadhipati's. By the way, I liked the tune set
> in Shivaranjani (Hindustani) very much.
Glad you did. You would have liked the philosophy conveyed even more,
had you understood it correctly.
For starters, the lines are not saying that samsaara is like a
water-bubble and hence unreal; a literal translation would be something
like:
Who is present for whom, in this transitory samsaara?
A bubble on top of water is not real, O Hari!
If Tattvavaada's tenet had been "nityam jagat" (the world is eternal),
instead of "satyam jagat" (the world is real), there would be an obvious
conflict, but there is nothing in the above to cause one.
More importantly, note that the second line is actually *addressing
Hari*. This is a very important point, and makes no sense if the
interpretation is to be made in an Advaitic fashion; the Paramaatman
is also a vyaavahaarika-satya just like the objects of perception, and
it makes no sense for one to address Him and say "all this is unreal,
O Hari." That is tantamount to my telling a person in my dream that
all I am seeing is a dream. But one never does that; at the level
where the dream is reality, that person exists and the statement is
false; at the level where the dream is illusory, that person is also
illusory and addressing the statement to that person is quite
meaningless. Therefore, if Purandara Daasa had said "niiramelina guLLe
nijavallaa," period, then you'd have a case, but he has spoiled it for
you by adding "Hariye" at the end. Why should there be a "Hariye" at
the end, for an Advaitic meaning?
In addition, consider -- why does he choose the example of a
water-bubble and not a mud-pot, the standard example for a transitory
entity? How does the first line really make sense, in speaking of
_relationships_? There has to be a coherent meaning that is seen to
flow smoothly from the first line to the second and give an overall
understanding of some concept. I hope you'll pardon me for saying so,
but your Advaitic interpretation does not do this to any significant
extent -- it does not clearly explain why the water-bubble metaphor is
used, why Hari is addressed at the end, or even how the first and
second lines are coherent with respect to any overall meaning.
The correct interpretation is that in the first line, Purandara Daasa
says all relationships in samsaara are at the level of mortal flesh;
hence, who is there for whom? -- all flesh perishes, and the
relationships that one builds up around flesh are also seen to perish
along with it. A parent, child, sibling, spouse, friend, what have you
-- all these are based upon identifications with the insentient body,
and these identifications all perish within a short time.
Now, the body itself is composed of the elements of physical nature,
and upon its demise, the elements collected in the body go back to
their respective natural states. Thus, in his second line, Purandara
Daasa compares the body to a bubble resting on a water-surface; the
bubble is a temporary creation arising out of the water, and after a
short span of time, the substance of the bubble's body rejoins the
water. Moreover, the reason a "bubble on top of water" is described,
instead of a free-standing "water-bubble," is to illustrate that just
as the water-bubble is in constant, intimate contact with the
substratum of water that created it, the physical body is ever in
contact with the prakrti from whence it came, and cannot ever rise
above it.
Just as bubbles may be close to each other for a time, before
perishing, so also, our bodies, which arise out of material nature,
may form or be in relationships of various kinds with others, and yet,
ultimately, all these are purely transitory -- hence, who is there for
whom? Is one body born of prakrti there for another, when both are
temporary and will shortly rejoin their substratum, just as
water-bubbles join the host body of water from whence they came? No,
this is certainly not so; all such relationships are untrue (because
they are relationships of the body and not those of the soul), and
hence, one must seek out that Hari who is one's Eternal companion and
Savior. Thus, at the end, Purandara Daasa calls out "Hariye!"
*Knowing* that the material world is transitory, and relationships of
the body false, one addresses Hari and seeks His mercy, knowing Him to
be the only recourse one has, and having understood and given up the
lures of the body.
As a final note, you must admit of the possibility that Sri
VidyabhuushaNa Tiirtha (who, as the PiiThaadhipati of the Subramanya
MaTha, one of the eight Udupi MaThas, is himself quite a "senior
MaThaadhipati") is a tad bit smarter than you give him credit for
being.
> But that is daasa saahitya, not prasthaana traya.
Yes, *that* is daasa saahitya. The real McCoy. The vehicle to take the
message of the prasthaana-traya to the masses.
[*chomp*]
> >> >1. Bhoota daya para naagira beku
> >>
> >> bhuutadayaaparanaagira beku
> >>
> >> be compassionate to all creatures,
>
> >Throughout the song, the tone is not actually one of addressing someone
> >and saying "do this." For instance, the above is actually saying:
>
> >"One must be exceedingly compassionate to [all] creatures."
>
> Microscopic Analysis Not Necessary (MANN)!
> (Please note this acronymn. I'll be using it frequently while
> arguing with dvaitins. :-) )
If you hold that position while arguing with Maadhvas about Maadhva
compositions, you're in for a series of surprises, acronym or not.
[*chomp*]
> >> >2. Aaru varga vanu aLi-ali beku
> >> aaru vargavanu aLiyalu beku
> >>
> >> conquer the six enemies, (kaama, krodha, lobha,
> >> mada, moha, and matsara), viz. desire, anger, greed,
> >> intoxication, delusion and envy,
>
> >`aLiyalu' would be closer to "destroy." Purandara Daasa has said
> >elsewhere (as a metaphor) "aLidaLidhoguva makkaLu etake" to mean "what
> >is the use of having children that pre-decease you?" -- it makes no
> >sense to interpret that as meaning "what is the use of having children
> >whom you conquer?"
>
> >Moreover, it makes no sense to "conquer" vices; it makes sense to
> >completely *destroy* them.
>
> However, if you talk of the six enemies, "conquer" also is
> an appropriate term (at least in English).
The difference is that a "conquered" entity may continue its existence
in a subordinate role (or even otherwise), but a destroyed entity
simply ceases to exist. In that sense, even in English, one *destroys*
vice; in any case, destruction is what is indicated, and Purandara
Daasa does not speak of enemies as such, viz.,
> >Besides, `Aru-varga' means "six-fold." Thus,
>
> >"One must destroy the six-fold [vices]."
> >> > mooru gulangala meeraLi beku
> >>
> >> muuru gaNangaLa miiralu beku
> >>
> >> go beyond the three objects of life, (dharma, artha,
> >> and kaama), viz. religiosity, wealth, and desire for
> >> enjoyment,
>
> >'mUru guNaN^gaLa' means "the three gUNas." The line is similar to
> >Krishna's injunction "nistraiguNyo bhavArjuna." Thus, the line is:
>
> >"One must exceed the scope of the three guNas (sattva, rajas, tamas)."
>
> >The idea is that objects of the senses, and all of prakrti as such, are
> >of the three guNas, whilst the Lord is not; thus, one's objective must
> >be He that is beyond the three guNas, rather than sense-objects.
>
> This could be appropriate if the text is "guNa" rather than
> "gaNa."
The text _is_ guNa, and not gaNa; the latter word would mean
"attendant" or "servant," or some such, rather than "object." (For
instance, "GaNa-pati," meaning " Master of [Shiva's] attendants.")
"Exceed the three attendants" does not mean much of itself, although I
suppose one could force it to mean something by interpreting `gaNa' in
some metaphorical way which has not been done.
> >> > seri brahma nodu sukhisaa beku
> >>
> >> seri brahmanoLu sukhisabeku
> >>
> >> merge into Brahman and enjoy bliss,
>
> >'seri' means "having reached." Thus,
>
> >"Having reached Brahman, one must rejoice in Him."
>
> >The Advaitic idea of "merge into Brahman" is not conveyed; after all
> >Purandara Daasa was not a proponent of Advaita.
>
> Please see the comments in the beginning.
Seen. Note that `seri' or "having reached, is clearly a Tattvavaada
idea, and about as far removed from Advaita as it is possible to get.
Under the Advaitic conception, one cannot "reach" the nirguNa Brahman;
how can one actually _reach_ oneself? -- that is not a meaningful
conception of "reach," which indicates action and conjunction under
duality. One can "reach" the Paramaatman, but that is quite similar
to, if not identical with, the Tattvavaada concept, and "merge" in an
Advaitic sense is not indicated.
Further, you may recall one of the nine examples in the Chhaandogya
Upanishad that UddhaaLaka gives Shwetaketu in the course of the "sa
AtmA.atattvamasi Shwetaketo" instruction -- the example of a traveler
who goes back to Gandhaara. We won't discuss that example in detail,
but the idea conveyed is quite similar -- a jiiva undertakes a
spiritual journey that culminates in its joining the Lord eternally.
One criticism made of the Advaitic interpretation of the "sa AtmA..."
line and that particular example, is that such cannot clearly explain
the process of reaching mukti; while under Tattvavaada one can clearly
understand how the jiiva gradually goes towards the Lord, as the
traveler goes slowly to Gandhaara, there is no clear way of
understanding how a jiiva attains complete non-dual union with
Brahman; one can speak of the state of duality, and of the state of
identity, but not of the steps and path in between, because there is
really nothing "in between."
Thus, too, `seri' is quite, quite, removed from the Advaitic concept
of union, which cannot clearly enunciate the notion of progress
towards the Brahman who is oneself.
> >> > nara naada mele hari naama ...
> >>
> >> [ There are a few intervening lines in my book of
> >> Purandara daasa's padas, which I mention below.]
> >>
> >> ashhTamadangaLa tiLiyalu beku
> >>
> >> know the eight kinds of intoxication (madness), such as
> >> intoxication due to wealth, physical beauty, youth, power, etc.
> >> (I have not been able to identify these eight madnesses. Perhaps
> >> someone else will.)
>
> >In addition, 'mada' meaning "intoxication," as Anand suggests, is
> >actually one of the eight. The reason the eight are collectively called
> >the "eight intoxications" is by virtue of the practice where the most
> >important member of a set is used to refer to the set itself. For
> >instance, 'aksha' means eye, but since the eye is the most important of
> >the five senses, it is also used to refer to any of the five senses, or
> >to sense-interaction of any kind. Thus, "akshaadi traya" means "the
> >triad of sense-interactions, etc.," and not "the triad of the eye, etc."
>
> No. If mada had meant one of eight weaknesses, the text would have
> said "madaadi ashhTakavanu ..." Since it says "ashhTamada", it can only
> mean eight kinds of mada. Example, shhaDripu means six enemies,
> guNatraya means three guNas, etc.
This question will be settled if someone can refer the
Tattva-sankhyaana; however, in parallel with "akshaadi traya,"
"madaadi ashhTaka" would mean the class of eight sets, where one of
the sets is that of the one including mada as a specific element.
> >> bhedahankaarava niigalu beku
> >>
> >> give up the perception of differences, and your ego,
>
> >This again is wrongly interpreted in an Advaitic fashion.
>
> >'bhedAhankaara' does not mean "differences _and_ ego"; the "and" is not
> >conveyed.
>
> Depends on how you analyse the compound word. bhedaH ahankaarashcha
> means bheda and ahankaara. Here dvandva seems more sensible than
> your tatpurushha interpretation, which appears convoluted.
Not in the overall context, it doesn't. If you had to justify an
Advaitic line in the middle of a Purandara Daasa composition, there
would be much greater convolutions to suffer to explain away how it
came to be there.
[*chomp*]
> >> virakti maargadalirabeku
> >>
> >> accept the path of detachment,
>
> >"One must _persist_ in the path of detachment."
>
> A more literal translation would be
> "one must be in the path of detachment"
Not bad. At least you're learning to be as nit-picking as one should be
to interpret Maadhva works.
Regards,
Shrisha Rao
> >Shrisha Rao
>
> >> Jaya PaanDuranga ViTThala
>
> >> Anand
>
> Anand
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