Sivarama Sinks The Ship
M.LLOYD
Dear Vijay and other interested parties,
Please accept my dandavat pranams. All glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga!
I like you when you're right, I like you when you're funny, but I like yo=
u
most of all when you are overtly and publicly completely off the wall.
>Srila Gour Govinda Swami very clearly said, "To those who might think
>they have to go outside ISKCON to some other Vaishnava institution to
>find higher tattvas- higher teachings, I want to show them that they
>are right here in the institution that Srila Prabhupada began."
>I suggest that the only reason that you and your comrades make a
>pretense of glorifying him is that he is not personally present to
>contradict your ideas.
(Now, who else does that remind me of?)
The institution is immaterial. The quality of instruction is everything.
Pretentiousness is more noticeable in vociferous academics purporting to
represent a line of gurus with whom they demonstrably have no meaningful
connection whatsoever.
Personally, the main reason that I glorify His Holiness Gour Govinda Swam=
i
Maharaja is that he lived the life of an exemplary Vaisnava and glorified=
Srila Prabhupada and all the Gaudiya Vaisnava acaryas by his every word a=
nd
deed. Moreover, I read his books and I really like him. =
Of course nobody needed to go outside the ISKCON institution to find high=
er
tattvas - higher teachings, everything is contained in Srila Prabhupada's=
books, and Srila Gour Govinda Swami was there to give proper guidance.
Unfortunately, since the departure of His Holiness there does not appear =
to
be many other ISKCON gurus capable of properly understanding and followin=
g
the sublime teachings contained within those books, as evidenced by the
gross deviations from Gaudiya Vaisnava philosophy and etiquette practised=
by the now redundant GBC. If these gurus are active, they clearly hold no=
sway with current bogus GBC policy.
Notably, Srila Gour Govinda Swami Maharaja, was the siksa disciple of bot=
h
Sripad Bhakti Caran das Babaji Maharaja and Sripad Akincana Krsna das
Babaji Maharaja, two disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddanta Sarasvati Thakura
Prabhupada, who themselves committed the unforgivable error of being guru=
s
outside the jurisdiction of GBC ISKCON. =
(shock, horror, gasp !!!)
You and your friends are very picky about minor details. The main issue
here is that SRV provides the platform for an ongoing dialogue between bo=
na
fide Gaudiya Vaisnavas and the GBC (via their proxy representatives). Let=
's
keep to the point.
Back in the mid '80s I had darshan of Bhagavan (no, not God, the other
one). He sat on Srila Prabhupada's vyasasan in the Soho St. temple in
London and would only answer a selection of questions handed to him on a
piece of paper. Even back then I figured if he couldn't face direct
questions he either didn't know the answers, or he was just too proud to =
be
seen not to know his stuff. Either way, his credibility was immediately
questionable. =
No open dialogue leads to no understanding. No understanding leads to no
appreciation or harmony. No appreciation or harmony leads to GBC
resolutions and policies that bear little or no relation to the pertinine=
nt
issues of the day, like "How can we progress in bhakti?" or "How can we
expand Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's preaching movement in a positive manner,=
pleasing to all our acaryas?".
If "Let's Make Enormous Offenses to Pure Vaisnavas" is the resolved polic=
y,
I think even small children might begin to suspect that something in the
process of arriving at and acting upon such an astonishing conclusion is =
a
wee bit suspect.
You damage the GBC position every time you speak, but because they are
afraid of open dialogue or public debate (they are always welcome to spea=
k
directly on the neutral forum of SRV), they are simply confirming that
their position is untenable and that they hold no credible spiritual
authority whatsoever. You're doing a great job, Vijay. Keep it up!
The GBC have been repeatedly invited to attend open public meetings with
Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaja, and they have consistently refused =
to
air the the true nature of their problems in public.
I suppose it would be a little embarrassing for them to ask Srila Narayan=
Maharaja why it is that Their Holinesses Tamal Krsna and Giriraja Swamis
wanted to start all these controversies by over-enthusiastically promotin=
g
him as "the new ISKCON acarya", to bemused Vaisnavas the world over?
Perhaps that question would be better addressed in an internal meeting.
Perhaps they have already confessed that Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan
Maharaja twisted their arms and made them say it, completely against thei=
r
will. Or they were "in maya", as the usual sad story goes. How reassuring=
for their disciples.
Or was it the classic "flashing light syndrome" - Now they recognise the
self-effulgent, maha-bhagavat acarya, now they don't?
Or were they just ever so slightly embarrassed that they all desperately
wanted the benefit of first-class sadhu-sangu whilst simultaneously
preventing their disciples from having the same benefit. Even more
reassuring for the disciples.
Or were they just ever so slightly even more embarrassed that everyone
could see that they they wanted to privately collect as much astounding,
heartlifting Hari-katha as they could, to present as their own realisatio=
ns
to restore the jaded faith of their own followers.
Whatever the reasons, the GBC position remains untenable. The mountain of=
humbug and hypocrisy has finally overshadowed them. They won't speak
publicly and openly, because they are too ashamed to be seen and heard.
The tone of recent letters to the devotee community has been "We are
absolute, infallible authorities. Our words are divine wisdom. Avoid the
sanga and siksa of advanced Vaisnavas."
Most recipients have been more inclined to read "We have completely lost
touch with reality. It's all somebody else's fault. Serve Srila Prabhupad=
a
by participating in non-stop Vaisnava aparadha."
The familiar tactics of creating fear, diversion, hatred and confusion to=
distract people away from the main issue of a bogus administration
retaining insidious influence over the lives of innocent Vaisnavas, are n=
o
longer effective. This is the communications age.
Every dirty trick, every violation of basic human rights, every act of
subjugation, violence and brutality is immediately broadcast across the
globe to a bewildered, if not horrified audience of Vaisnavas and other
interested onlookers. =
The GBC hasn't changed in 10 years. The world around them is drastically
different.
The GBC has no control whatsoever over the Internet. Other totalitarian
regimes have fallen for the very same reason. No control of information, =
no
control of people. We are constitutional servants, not controllers. =
ISKCON & ISKCON COM are something akin to communist China. Vote for the
dictators, toe the party line, or face excommunication. Does that really
really help a person to love Krsna more? Hardly an open mood of love and
trust is it?
Every move the GBC makes, every word they utter is watched by a world
audience. Whether they pass resolutions or pass stool there is little
difference, as the foul stench of material ambition permeates their every=
action. =
By their own words, they expose and condemn themselves as bogus cult guru=
s
of the worst kind. A fitting punishment for aparadhis, that they simply
topple themselves by the words emanating from their own mouths.
In publicly blaspheming Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaja and thereby
blaspheming and offending Srila Prabhupada and all other Vaisnavas, His
Holiness Sivarama Maharaja has shot himself in the foot with a weapon of
such magnitude that he has sunk the very ship on which he and his fellow
pirates have sailed for so long.
I'll forgive him when he publicly apologises, but will the godbrothers wh=
om
he fears so much forgive the loose cannon that sunk their ambitions?
Srila Prabhupada's transcendental boat to cross the ocean of mundane
existence was hijacked by the GBC pirates the very moment that Gaudiya
Vaisnava philosophy was abandoned in favour of creating a bogus cult in
order to maintain the indulgent lifestyle of a handful of ruthless and
ambitious men. They got the boat, they just didn't know how to sail it.
The sum total of current GBC policy is an increase in the burden of
Kali-yuga. The current proliferation of cow-slaughter in the world is
second only to the burden of reaction caused by the epidemic of Vaisnava
aparadha spewing out from the now-redundant GBC administration. They have=
exceeded all reasonable levels of toleration.
Nonetheless, Krsna consciousness has survived, and the banner of true
Gaudiya Vaisnavism is being carried forward by the genuine disciples of
Srila Prabhupada, who are fully qualified to restore ISKCON to it's forme=
r
glory and purpose. The institution that Srila Prabhupada began is back in=
the safe hands of his true disciples. =
(Fanatics please note: no that doesn't mean that Srila Bhaktivedanta
Narayan Maharaja or any of his disciples will "take over" ISKCON, there a=
re
abundant other perfectly qualified disciples of Srila Prabhupada present =
to
carry the ISKCON mission forward, having shaken off the burden of a corru=
pt
and destructive management system).
The exemplary disciples in Badger and elsewhere in the world have remaine=
d
true and faithful to their Holy Master. That's all that was required in t=
he
first place. Krsna consciousness will now proceed better, bigger and
stronger than ever before, heralding the dawn of an auspicious new age.
Sri Kanupriya Gosvami, who lived shortly after the time of Sri Caitanya
Mahaprabhu, made a prediction:
"From 1986 to 1996 Kali will still have some strength. But after 1996 Kal=
i
will become very weak. Then a prema-yuga will come...."
Prema-yuga has dawned. It is up to us to help distribute the fruits of t=
he
Caitanya Tree of pure devotional service to all people of the world. We o=
we
that to all the saintly Vaisnava acaryas in our line. We have a mission,
and by the potency of our beloved acaryas' mercy, that mission will
certainly become successful. Here and now is our prime opportunity to ser=
ve
all Vaisnavas and aspirants to the path of pure love of God.
1996 saw the centenary of Srila Prabhupada, and it can truly be said that=
the name of Krsna had been heard in every town and village in the world,
due to the astonishing potency and success of his ISKCON preaching missio=
n.
1998 will see the centenary of Srila Prabhupada's sannyasa and siksa guru=
,
Srila Bhakti Prajnana Keshava Gosvami Maharaja. By that time all bogus
philosophies masquerading under the name of Krsna consciousness will have=
been swept aside, and the true glory of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's sankirt=
an
movement to distribute pure spontaneous love of God in the mood of the
Vrajavasis, to all, will be fully manifest.
Anyway, speak to your Mum, Vijay. Perhaps she'll you let you out of your
bedroom to go and meet some girls, or engage in some other activity bette=
r
suited to your passionate nature. Trainspotting, perhaps.
SRV really isn't the best place for lonely hearts, or trainspotters. It's=
a
great place for toppling bogus cults and pseudo-gurus though.
=
Perhaps I'll stay after all.
Don't worry, Vijay. I think you and your brother are utterly charming and=
amusing. Go and join the GBC - there's plenty of vacancies. I'm voting Sr=
i
Krsna's poetry incarnation, Jahnu Dasa, for chairman. You'll all make nic=
e
Vaisnavas, one day. There's hope for us all, never fear.
Your servant aspiring for the service of Sri Guru & Gauranga,
Madan Mohan Dasa.
p.s. If maha-aparadhi His Holiness Sivarama Maharaja thinks that I have
over-reacted to his public declaration:
"....In conclusion, for followers of Srila Prabhupada not only does the
involvement with Narayan Maharaja threaten guru-bhakti, but it is
indicative of the root cause of conditional existence and the difficulty =
of
advancing in Krishna consciousness...." =
he should consider the above letter to be a love-poem in relatio=
n
to the actual deep feelings of offense and anger he has stirred within my=
heart. A mere public apology will suffice. I would respectfully suggest
that he makes it soon, for the sake of peace, harmony and the avoidance o=
f
going to hell with all his followers.
Please chant the Maha-mantra always & be happy!
HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE
* * * * DON'T MISS THE NEW WEBSITE! * * * *
* * * * THE HARE KRISHNA TRADITION * * * *
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/paul.mcfarland/contents.html
"To all devotees,
I am always praying that you achieve pure bhakti."
Swami B.V.Narayan
TOUR DATES 1997 (LATEST UPDATE at 24th April)
MAY 1997
3rd & 4th Birmingham, England
5th - 12th St. Albans, nr. Watford, England =
(13th May to 8th June - U.S.A.)
15th to 26th; Badger, California 27th to 1st June; San Francisco
JUNE 1997
2nd to 8th ; Houston
9th to 14th; Costa Rica, 15/20th; return to Miami
23rd to 31st; France
JULY 1997
1st to 9th; Amsterdam, Holland
10th; return to India.
(These dates are subject to change, please request latest details)
Any comments welcome. For more information, =
please contact Madan Mohan Dasa on
10665...@compuserve.com
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Vivek Sadananda Pai
Dear Srila Madan Mohan Prabhu,
It amuses me how sure of yourself and your own infallibility you are.
It amuses me how you believe yourself equal to (and above) devotees
who have rendered a significant amount of service to their spiritual
masters. It amuses me that you feel yourself capable of speaking not
only for Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj, but also for Srila Prabhupada.
Why bother with Narayan Maharaj then? Why don't you just go ahead and
declare yourself the sole spokesperson for everything Vaishnava? Maybe
you can also arrange to have yourself martyred in some appropriate way
so that your name can live on forever, as the purest Vaishnava who was
so unjustly ignored by those whose eyes couldn't see his brilliant
self-effulgence.
As for predictions of 1986-1996 and the coming "prema yuga," forgive
me if I ask for backing evidence or shastric support. Otherwise, it
sounds a little too much like some big Indian baba and his followers'
claims of the impending satya yuga that was to occur after his 70th
birthday (iirc).
As for your anti-GBC ranting, please tell us, your Holiness, if you
feel that your criticisms would be in keeping with Srila Prabhupada's
wishes - after all, if you represent Narayan Maharaj, and you believe
that Narayan Maharaj is not only the successor but the foremost
disciple of Srila Prabhupada, then it must follow that your behavior
should be dictated by Srila Prabhupada's wishes, right? Why don't you
please tell us, then, where Srila Prabhupada instructs you to behave
as you do.
Also, for someone who gets so hung up on proper titles, etc., I'd just
like to point out that your title of this post just says "Sivarama",
you hypocrite.
Have a nice day.
-Vivek
Jahnu dasa
Hare Krishna Madan Mohan!
Luckily the composition of your text was so disorderly
that it was impossible to read.
Y.s. Jahnu das
Agrahya das
Dear Madan Mohan,
You've really gone too far. I've received a complaint about some of your statements
here, and I take complaints seriously, albeit tempered with consideration for who
the plaintiff is.
You are not obligated to take my advice, but in matters of what is appropriate for
SRV, this is not. Regardless of whether someone else makes judgmental and offensive
statements, your counter-offenses do not rectify the situation. It has been pointed
out that certain statements of yours from among those excerpted below are not far
different from the all-out attack style of criticism exemplified by the PADA crowd,
whose filth is not allowed here.
You are on probation. Your posts had better be squeaky clean. They will be checked
manually until you show signs of improvement. Unfortunately this means you will
experience some delays in posting. But take solace in the fact that you are not the
first one to receive this honor; you are merely the first to receive public notice
of it. I also suspect you will not be the last.
M.LLOYD wrote:
> [snip]
> ISKCON & ISKCON COM are something akin to communist China. Vote for the
> dictators, toe the party line, or face excommunication. Does that really
> really help a person to love Krsna more? Hardly an open mood of love and
> trust is it?
>
> Every move the GBC makes, every word they utter is watched by a world
> audience. Whether they pass resolutions or pass stool there is little
> difference, as the foul stench of material ambition permeates their every
> action.
>
> By their own words, they expose and condemn themselves as bogus cult gurus
> of the worst kind. A fitting punishment for aparadhis, that they simply
> topple themselves by the words emanating from their own mouths.
>
> In publicly blaspheming Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaja and thereby
> blaspheming and offending Srila Prabhupada and all other Vaisnavas, His
> Holiness Sivarama Maharaja has shot himself in the foot with a weapon of
> such magnitude that he has sunk the very ship on which he and his fellow
> pirates have sailed for so long.[snip]
> Srila Prabhupada's transcendental boat to cross the ocean of mundane
> existence was hijacked by the GBC pirates the very moment that Gaudiya
> Vaisnava philosophy was abandoned in favour of creating a bogus cult in
> order to maintain the indulgent lifestyle of a handful of ruthless and
> ambitious men. They got the boat, they just didn't know how to sail it.
>
> The sum total of current GBC policy is an increase in the burden of
> Kali-yuga. The current proliferation of cow-slaughter in the world is
> second only to the burden of reaction caused by the epidemic of Vaisnava
> aparadha spewing out from the now-redundant GBC administration. They have
> exceeded all reasonable levels of toleration.[snip]
> Anyway, speak to your Mum, Vijay. Perhaps she'll you let you out of your
> bedroom to go and meet some girls, or engage in some other activity better
> suited to your passionate nature. Trainspotting, perhaps.
>
> SRV really isn't the best place for lonely hearts, or trainspotters. It's a
> great place for toppling bogus cults and pseudo-gurus though.
>
> Perhaps I'll stay after all.[snip]
You'll only do so if you behave yourself. Two wrongs don't make a right. Probation
is not the worst that can happen.
> p.s. If maha-aparadhi His Holiness Sivarama Maharaja thinks that I have
> over-reacted to his public declaration:[snip]
> heart. A mere public apology will suffice. I would respectfully suggest
> that he makes it soon, for the sake of peace, harmony and the avoidance of
> going to hell with all his followers.
I didn't appreciate Sivarama Swami's statements and consider them offensive, but I
appreciate even less your attempt to start a flame war. SRV is not your private
battleground. It's not anyone's battleground. Please make your points without the
incendiary verbiage.
Regards,
Agrahya das
Moderator, soc.religion.vaishnava
P.S. This message is written in my capacity as moderator. As such I am trying to
stick to the SRV charter. Comments are welcome. Apparently some believe SRV has
become no better than ARV.