Sikhism and 3HO
.
Please tell me what is your opinion of Siri Singh Sahib Harbhajan Singh
Khalsa Yogi Ji(Yogi Bhajan)?
Don't be shy. Is he teaching true Sikhism?
Dave
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Dear People,
I am working on a journal entitled 'Understanding Sikhism'. Its a non
profit making, non-political journal, and its aim is to discuss issues
relating to sikhism and myths that have crept into it.
I am working on the youth section, and i am looking for views from
people on the issue of marriage.
I would be grateful to hear your views or experiences on the matter,
either through email or on this discussion thread.
Speaking from personal experience, a few of the things i find people
have the most difficulty in, when marrying is:
(1) Not being able to know the person well enough before commiting to
marriage.
(2) Caste barriers being big barriers (even in this day and age!!!)
even though they go against the teachings of our religion
(3) A lot of social, family expectations that can persuade someone from
making a choice they otherwise wouldnt without consider.
Something you may disagree with, but what i have noted..that for quite a
few people, who they marry becomes a compromise. For example, I had a
freind who was about 4ft10 ..so quite small in height. She eventually
said yes to someone, even though there was no physical attraaction
whatsoever, purely because she believed she would not find anyone who
would accept her height..(needless to say she constantly heard this from
her family). I know another girl, who got married, just to escape being
at home, as she had difficulties at home, she did this thinking, she
would suddently be free when married, but failed to realise, with
marriage, you not only are bound by your parents reputation and izzat,
but also that of your inlaws..so no less chains there. These are some
of my personal thoughts on the matter. All views are welcome.
Surinder.
Saheb Singh Dewan
First we have to understand what is true Sikhism and if we ourselves
are following same or not, then only we should ask or doubt others
if they are following same or not.
I have been living in Canada for last 10 yrs and the only Gursikhs
I have come across who do not challange others and who sincerely follow
Sikhism as per the preachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib and Guru Gobind
Singh ji, are the followers of Yogi Bhajan.
If practice of Yoga is the point being challanged then I think as long
as it is practiced for health and to help the person in meditation ,
same should not be criticised.
I am not trying to support any particular group but my experience shows
that we "the so called Real Sikhs" have become too proud and full of
Haumein that instead of cleaning our house first , we prefer to look
for the evil in others hose.
Gur Fateh
Mandheer Singh
some of the most amazing people ever. However, I have seen videos of
his speeches, read some of his writings, and know many people who know
him very well.. and I don't think all his teachings are in accordance
with Sikhi. He is just a man. He is flawed like all of us.
One example is him leading a meditation session and having the
congregation follow by chanting "I am" (in an effort to perhaps unlock
human potential?). This is fine and dandy, but it is his own thinking
and philosophy. You might be able to see that on their website
(3ho.com??)..
Guru Granth Sahib ji and the Gurus taught true sikhism.. That's why it
is probably best to listen to everybody and always pray to Vaaheguru
for true understanding.
Mandheer Singh (aka Net Nihung)
http://syf.jaj.com
>Dear Gursikhs,
>
>Please tell me what is your opinion of Siri Singh Sahib Harbhajan
Singh
>Khalsa Yogi Ji(Yogi Bhajan)?
>Don't be shy. Is he teaching true Sikhism?
>
>
> Dave
Please See Message Body
I am a european girl, I married at 24 with a boy I lived with for 4 years
before we married. It was completely my choice, he is a good and a kind
man, but my marriage is still a compromise. I think all marriages are,
arranged or not.
During the time I spent in India I spent a lot of my time talking to my
sikh friends about arranged marriages, because I like most europeans found
them cruel. We grew up on the myth of eternal love and romance. Today I
find arranged marriages just as good as a lovemarriage. There are goods and
bads in both ways.
WHat is important, and this is a big theme in norwegian papers these days,
arranged marriages is not the same as forced marriages. Theres a lot of
norwegian pakistani kids who are forced to marry relatives in pakistan
witch they never new. One of these marriages ended with murder, girls hire
securitycompanys to protect them from their families. But thats a different
story completely.
Lene
Baltej Singh Dhillon
can tell you that he very much understands that he is a man and has flaws .
Knowing many people who know him doesnt do him justice . Siri Sing Sahib has
always helped others in reaching their full potential and he does this with
the guidance of his teacher and the teacher of all mankind for that matter ,
Siri Guru Granth Sahib.
So to answer the question is he teaching true SIkhi , my response would be
is that he is teaching how to live a true life , true to yourself , your
community and most importantly your Guru .
It is unfair to characterize Siri Singh sahib from one meditation session
Baltej Singh
Mandheer Singh wrote in message <70adv5$76e$1...@news1.bu.edu>...
>I have found the Sikhs who follow his teachings are very dedicated and
>some of the most amazing people ever. However, I have seen videos of
>his speeches, read some of his writings, and know many people who know
>him very well.. and I don't think all his teachings are in accordance
>with Sikhi. He is just a man. He is flawed like all of us.
>
>One example is him leading a meditation session and having the
>congregation follow by chanting "I am" (in an effort to perhaps unlock
>human potential?). This is fine and dandy, but it is his own thinking
>and philosophy. You might be able to see that on their website
>(3ho.com??)..
>
>Guru Granth Sahib ji and the Gurus taught true sikhism.. That's why it
>is probably best to listen to everybody and always pray to Vaaheguru
>for true understanding.
>
>Mandheer Singh (aka Net Nihung)
>http://syf.jaj.com
=================================================================
Jagdeep Singh Gill
Can anyone tell me how Yogi Harbhajan Singh was given the title of "Sri
Singh Sahib"?
Can he not be given the title of "Singh Sahib" just like other respected
Sikh preachers?
Wahguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Mandheer Singh
close to any person. It's better to just pray for understanding and
make a strong effort to learn from the Guru Granth Sahib ji yourself.
My point was no matter WHO it is and how true their teachings, it
isn't good to follow anybody but the Guru.
You say Sri Singh Sahib helped others reach their potential.. and I
say Guru Sahib graced those people with enlightenment using whatever
worldly tools were necessary.. be it Yogi, war, a magazine article, a
random meeting with some Sikh on the way to work, or whatever..
Also, I had clearly said that I was making my impression of him based
on more than just one meditation session. It was based on some of his
articles, speeches, friends that know him for MANY years.. from back
in India, and other things. I saw a documentary on PBS where, and I
quote, Yogi said "Poor people are stupid. If you are poor, you are
stupid." He was talking about why his "followers" decorate with gold
and jewelry. Granted, it is old.. and he may have changed.. but
still.. that was ANOTHER thing that formed my impression of him.
Anyway, I wasn't trying to bash him either.. now I kinda have.. that
wasn't my intent. Guru will judge him.. I shouldn't.. that's why I
emphasize AGAIN that it is best to read and learn all perspectives
(especially what YOU, yourself, intrepret from Guru Granth Sahib ji)
and PRAY for understanding..
I'm really sorry if I offended anybody.. there was a question.. I said
my opinion.. that's what these groups are for anyway! heh.. :)
Mandheer Singh (aka Net Nihung)
http://syf.jaj.com
Baltej Singh Dhillon wrote in message <70jfi9$t21$1...@news1.bu.edu>...
>I have had the opportunity to be in the company of Siri Singh Sahib
and I
>can tell you that he very much understands that he is a man and has
flaws .
>Knowing many people who know him doesnt do him justice . Siri Sing
Sahib has
>always helped others in reaching their full potential and he does
this with
>the guidance of his teacher and the teacher of all mankind for that
matter ,
>Siri Guru Granth Sahib.
>
>So to answer the question is he teaching true SIkhi , my response
would be
>is that he is teaching how to live a true life , true to yourself ,
your
>community and most importantly your Guru .
>
>It is unfair to characterize Siri Singh sahib from one meditation
session
>
>Baltej Singh
>
SHKHALSA
Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa
Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh
You bet I'll respond........
For 27 years some of us have had Yogi Harbhajan Singh Ji as a mentor in
many areas of our lives, personal health and relationships, business and
spiritual matters.
The powerful thing about him is that for many of us who really cared to
listen and most important practice Nam Simran, listen and read the Siri
Guru Granth Sahib and see the Siri Guru Granth Sahib as our one and only
Satguru NOT ANY LIVING PPERSON, we have been blessed with a deep understand
and experience of Sikhi.
We serve the One Creator through selflessly serving the Creation through
our own creativity.
We keep the rehit of Guru Gobind Singh not an individual Rehit that is
subjective to time and place.
We see the Khalsa Panth as a borderless, genderless, future oriented
spiritual path that brings people to the Feet of Waheguru rather than to
limited experience of reality that rises and falls with personality cults.
(Guru Gobind Singh said as long as you keep my rehit I'll be your support."
I love the rehit more than the Sikh.) The reason he loved the rehit more
than the individual person, was that the Sikh is the rehit! A Sikh without
the Rehit is not a Sikh. He or she is a person who adheres to a
institutionalized religious identity that is subject to interpretation by
whom ever is the more influential at any given time.
A few comments regarding what I perceive as common possible "short-comings
or "non-Sikh" practices taught by Siri Singh Sahib Ji.
Yoga - Look at the book Sadhus this is the yoga the Guru's spoke strongly
againest. Wandering naked through out the world, on drugs, forcing painful
ritual practices one's body, etc. Those in 3HO have been taught to keep the
body and mind fit, healthy and vital. The Guru's encouraged their Sikhs to
be fit and robust. In essence to have the physical, nerve and mental
resources to live as a Gursikh in a time , then and now of intense
repression, madness and despair. The sciences of yoga, aryuveda, Gatka and
other systems from India provide a wealth of knowledge and a heritage that
for some reason Indian born Sikhs tend to reject and rather gravitate
towards the proven unhealthy lifestyle of the British (conquerors)
embracing addictive behaviors including tea, whiskey, an overemphasise on
flesh foods (more on this late).
I believe that there are people out there who are exposed the wisdom of the
Sikh tradition and run towards it but for many they are so new to it that
they make youthful mistakes in their efforts to be close to the Guru and
the Sangat.
We get up every morning before sunrise take a (cold) shower, recite Japji
Sahib, excersise, and meditate on the Holy Name, Nam Simran, then we finish
with Gurbani Kirtan in the presence of the Siri Guru Granth Sahib. We then
work honestly by the modern "sweat of our brow", which now days tends to be
healing profgesions, business and information/computer careers. We share
what we earn with the less.It should remind us all of the Shabad of Guru
Ram Das JI and what he considers a way for a Sikh to live.
For 25 years we've sent our children to school in the Punjab, effectively
allowing them to experience Sikhi in its birthplace from Punjabi Sikhs.
This youth are now mothers and fathers. Some return to Punjab to run our
Khalsa school near Amritsar for they are both American/South
American/European and Punjabi all at once. They dance Bangara! they play
Gurbani Kirtan, they speak Punjabi when they communicate with each other.
They marry Punjabi Sikhs, and Punjabi Sikhs marry us.
We only marry through the Anand Karag ceremony before the Siri Guru Granth
Sahib. We permit nor tolerate any insult to the Guru including bare headed
in Guru's presence. We do not smoke tobacco or use drugs. We avoid any
foods that are limiting and harmful to our experience of Truth and
understanding the Word, Shabad, of the Guru. We are considered Khalsa only
if we accept the Baptism of the Sword - Amrit Sanchar and we live by the
Rehit. We are clear as to what is Sikhi and what are personal health
practices for the coming Millenium (which interestingly means not a lot to
a Sikh since it is a Christian calender. What ever!)
Frankly we are quite surprised by the attitude of uninformed individuals
who do not try to know the "Special Sikhs".
Years ago when I first moved to my community I was not known by the large
Punjabi community here. They were right from the start rude, distrustful,
put up obstacles in my way and called me "gorasikh" or "white sikh" (I saw
it as "Honky Sikh"). I vowed as my Guru before me (remember I always mean
from Guru Nanak to Guru Gobind Singh through the Siri Guru Granth Sahib)
that I "would fear no one, and make no one fear me." as well as "even to
make my worst enemy to respect me." well, no one calls me the "white sikh"
any more, no one in my all Punjabi Sangaat will ever allow it. We were at a
wedding reception and the "from out of town popular singer" was singing a
rousing Punjabi song. I was in the front of the room and very enthusiastic,
she said to everyone look how good the "white sikh" is doing. Everyone was
shocked for a moment but then they all smiled and laughed out of respect
and love when I reacted favorably.
Honestly folks, I can't think of hardly anything else that possibly he
showed that was terribly wrong or un-Sikh-like unless his personal charisma
and take charge attitude insults people. If none of you have known him as I
have for so many years, he is very humble and hardworking and the enormous
personal sacrifices he offered and still offers at the Feet of the Guru
leave me inspired and clear about who I am and what a Gursikh lives for.
Not for themselves, not at each other, but for each other.
There is today and continuing a strong addition to the traditional
culturally Indian Sikh population that is growing from roots other than the
South Indian continent. As SIkhs have migrated all over the world and
carried with them a hard working, family oriented culture, the legacy of
the Guru's is spreading beyond culture and borders. Guru Gobind Singh
prophesied that " there will be 960 million Sikhs". They will come from all
over the world and be of all different races. But they will all have one
thing in common...they will have one Sat Guru the Siri Guru Granth Sahib
and they will not waste their time trying to sell the world their
individual brand of "truth", but rather teach people to know "The Truth"
when they see.
I wasn't too shy was I?
S.S. Shiva SIngh Khalsa
SHKHALSA
I WROTE THE FOLLOWING INCORRECTLY (so much for editing)
> A few comments regarding what I perceive as common possible
"short-comings
> or "non-Sikh" practices taught by Siri Singh Sahib Ji.
IT SHOULD READ!
A few comments on what I perceive as AN ISSUE OTHERS SEE as common
shortcomings.....
( He never confused the lines between our yoga and other techniques for
personal growth and health with Sikhi. I don't see it as an issue or
shortcoming myself at all, in fact if it wasn't for Nam Simran I would
never have been healed from negative habits and emotional pain.)
AND...
Yoga - Look at the book "Sadhus" by "HARTSUICKER" This is the yoga the
Guru's spoke strongly againest.
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Baltej Singh Dhillon
of Siri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Unfortunately this is one of the limitations
of being a human that we must learn from someone . And if we are comfortable
in calling the people that have taught us skills in schools and colleges and
universities , taechers and proffessors why is it wrong calling Yogiji a
spiritual teacher.
>Even if he does teach that.. I still think it is best to not get too
>close to any person. It's better to just pray for understanding and
>make a strong effort to learn from the Guru Granth Sahib ji yourself.
>My point was no matter WHO it is and how true their teachings, it
>isn't good to follow anybody but the Guru.
You must get close to some one if you are going to extract any type of
knowledge be it in the field of eduaction or spiritual. Even Guruji
procalims in many verses in Bannee that GuruJi seeks the dust of the feet of
those who are true disciples of Whaeguu and live a truthul life. Granted
with our limited knowledge its sometimes diffucult to tell between the thugs
and the saints (this is where not common sense but Guru's sense prevails)
>You say Sri Singh Sahib helped others reach their potential.. and I
>say Guru Sahib graced those people with enlightenment using whatever
>worldly tools were necessary.. be it Yogi, war, a magazine article, a
>random meeting with some Sikh on the way to work, or whatever..
We are not in disagreement here
>
>Also, I had clearly said that I was making my impression of him based
>on more than just one meditation session. It was based on some of his
>articles, speeches, friends that know him for MANY years.. from back
>in India, and other things. I saw a documentary on PBS where, and I
>quote, Yogi said "Poor people are stupid. If you are poor, you are
>stupid." He was talking about why his "followers" decorate with gold
>and jewelry. Granted, it is old.. and he may have changed.. but
>still.. that was ANOTHER thing that formed my impression of him.
I cant comment on this as I'm not familiar with this.
>Anyway, I wasn't trying to bash him either.. now I kinda have.. that
>wasn't my intent. Guru will judge him.. I shouldn't.. that's why I
>emphasize AGAIN that it is best to read and learn all perspectives
>(especially what YOU, yourself, intrepret from Guru Granth Sahib ji)
>and PRAY for understanding..
>
>I'm really sorry if I offended anybody.. there was a question.. I said
>my opinion.. that's what these groups are for anyway! heh.. :)
No Offence taken.
Baltej Singh
>Baltej Singh Dhillon wrote in message <70jfi9$t21$1...@news1.bu.edu>...
>>I have had the opportunity to be in the company of Siri Singh Sahib
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