Akal Takht on Meat (Jasvinder Singh)
Sandeep Singh Brar
My detailed response to Jasvinder Singh's posting.
> From: Jasvinder Singh <J.S.Doo...@cs.bham.ac.uk>
> --The ONLY reason why Akal takhat has issued such a hukamnama
> is
> because of THOSE who make such a fuss about wanting to eat
> meat (and possibly avoid a split in the khalsa panth ). In
This is a lame excuse. I'm sure that there are millions of Punjabi
Sikhs who would clammer, for being allowed to drink. Should and has
Akal Takht ever issued a hukamnama saying that Amritdhari's are
allowed to drink? No. Why? Because we have very specific gurbani
written by a number of Gurus clearly condemning the drinking of
alcohol/wine. The Akal Takht hukamnama has now been in effect for 16
years because there is no compelling evidence that the Gurus ever
forbade their Sikhs to eat meat. That hukamanma stands on it's own
merit. Amritdhari Sikhs are free to choose to eat meat is they wish.
> consumption of meat. ( The following article, which gives the relevant
> tukhs from sri Guru Granth Sahib jee, is from our veer Navjot singh
> jee )
I replied to these once before, but lets see what our veer writes
once again:
> >In the Shabad "Mass Mass kar Murakh Jhagarray" (GGS p1289), that most
> > meat eaters quote it is also written :
> >
> >"AbhaKh Bhakhay Bhakh Taj(i) Chhoday
> >Aandh Guru Jin Kera ||2||25||" (GGS:1290)
> >
> >Translation: Those whose Guru is blind, leave the truly edible
> >(Bhakh) foods and eat the unedible/undesirable (Abhakh).
Yes, Guru Ji is saying that they follow blind rituals, not knowing
what are the real things to be avoided. Not meat, but misdeeds.
What else does Guru Ji right in the same shabad:
Mas chod bas nuk pkrhi ratee manus khanay.
(They , who abandon meat and hold their nose when sitting near it,
devour men at night.)
Phru kri lokaa no dikhlavhi giaan dhiaan nhee soujha.
(They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they
do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.)
Nanak andha siou kiaa kheeaa kha na khiaa bujha.
(Nanak what can be said to the blind man? He can reply not and nor
understands he what is said to him.)
Andha soei ji andhu kmava tis rida si lochn nahee.
(They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their
hearts.)
There you have it! Religious vegetarianism condemned as nothing but
the blind ritual it is.
> >Incredibly, meat-eaters simply deny the authenticity of the
> >Hukam-Namays !
It is not only meat eaters, but most Sikh scholars, vegetarian or
not agree that some are authentic, but not all.
> >In Guru Granth Sahib Ji (which we can not DENY) Bahagt Kabir Ji Says
> >"Jao Sabh Mai(n) Eak Khoodaiy Kahit Hao
> >Tao Kio Murgi Maraih"||1|| (1350)
> >
> >(If the One Almighty God dwells in all, why kill the poor hen ?)
A very famous quote. I address it later in this post.
> >Guru Nanak Dev Ji Says :
> >
> >Jay Ratt Lagay Kapprray Jamma Hoey Paleet ||
> >Jo Ratt Peevay MaNNsah Tin Kio Nirmal Cheet ||1||6||
> >[Salok M:1, P 160]
No such bani on pg. 160, only the bani of Guru Amar Das.
> >Bhai Gurdas Ji :
Bhai Gurdas Ji is a great Sikh Saint and his writings are very
illuminating. But it must be remembered that Bhai Gurdas is not a
Sikh Guru.
> >
> >It is interesting to note that GurSikhs like Baba Deep Singh Ji, Bhai
> > Mani Singh Ji, Baba Banda Singh Bahdur, Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa
> >Bhindranwale, Bhai Fauja Singh Shaheed, Jathaydaar Talwinder Singh
> >Babbar, Jathaydaar Sukhdev Singh Babbar and countless shaheeds and
> >Khalsa Warriors were not meat eaters.
It is also interesting to note that the Sikh warriors who fought for
Guru Hargobind to the Khalsa army of Guru Gobind Singh were meat eaters.
> >It is also interesting to note that the biggest proponents of
> >meat-eating are
> >groups like the Akalis, SGPC, and Budha Dal (all back-stabbers or GOI
> > Chamchays).
Yes, malign such Sikh institutions and any dedicated Sikhs who work in these
organizations, a very mature arguement indeed!
> >The Damadami Taksaal, Akhand Kirtani Jatha, Jatha of Baba Attar Singh
> >Ji, Kalera Valla Jatha, Rarray Vala Jatha, Baba Deep Singh Jatha of
> >Nihang Singhs, will excumnunicate a person if he/she consumes Meat /
> >Eggs / Fish / Drugs / Alchohol / Tobbacco, and thus one becomes a
> >Patit and has to take Amrit. Over !
I only follow the Reht Maryada, Akalt Takht, Jatha of Baba Nanak to Guru
Gobind Singh. Not these factional groups and their Sants.
> What really gets to me is when we have hukamnamas written by
> our
> great gurus's ordering us not to eat meat, yet still to satisfy the
> taste of their mouths, they say that this is written by some
> "overzealeous scribe" and not by our sri Guru Hargobind sahib ji.
Well what really gets to me is that there are so many documents of
dubious authorship which are blindly accepted as being authentic.
1) We have hukamnamas, some authentic, some not. Look at the
photographs of the Hukamnamas in the book published by Punjabi
University. Tell me that they are all written by the same author,
looking at the completely different handwritings. I don't think so!
2) Look at GN Manuscript 1245 which Pashaura Singh claims is the
original Granth Sahib. Proved not authentic!
3) Look at the Goindwal Pothis which Gurinder Singh Mann at Columbia
claims were written by Guru Amar Das and used by Guru Arjan Dev in
compiling the Adi Granth. Proved not authentic!
4) Look at Sau Sakhia claimed to be the work of Guru Gobind Singh.
Nowhere in Dasam Granth which contains every known piece of poetry
written by Guru Ji, but proved to be a product of the early to mid
nineteenth century.
5) The list of dubious documents goes on and on.................
Lets stick to what we do no is authentic and we do know who the
author is!
> Instead, they choose to believe some Persian historian ( mohsin fani
> ), who claims to have spent a great deal of time with Guru Hargobind
> ji, And has written a book (Dabistan-e-mahazib) in which he claims
> sikhs can eat whatever they like!!!!!
Yes, lets attack this book whose history and authorship have been
authenticated. Yes let us attack Mosin Fani as a liar even though he
was good friends with Guru Hargobind for many years and the two
exhanced many letters over the years. Lets attack Mosin Fani who
lived with Guru Hargobind for many years and was at his funeral. Lets
attack Mosin Fani who stayed with Guru Harkrishan following Guru
Hargobind's death. Let's attack Mosin Fani, an muslim who admired the
Sikhs and wrote only of them and their Gurus in glowing terms. Who
never wrote anything negative about the Sikhs.
>
> Well let me ask all of you a question: Who Is YOUR guru. Is it
My Guru is Guru Nanak Dev to Guru Gobind Singh and their teachings.
> Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji or Is it that book. If you believe in that
> book then you NO rights to call yourselves sikhs of the Satguru, as
> your guru is something else!!
Believing in a historical book by Mosin Fani has nothing to do with
who is my Guru, or being a Guru ka Sikh. Look at the Reht Maryada for
clarifications of who is a Sikh if you have forgotten.
> Remember that the light in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the
>
> VERY SAME light that was in Guru Nanak dev ji and was the VERY SAME
> light that was passed down through each successive guru to Dhan Dhan
> Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj, Dasmesh Pita Ji. If the Bani has
Yes the very same light. So when Bhagat Kabir writes:
God abides in all, then why killest thou a hen?, pg. 1350
Contrast that with what Guru Gobind Singh Ji writes:
"When I became a Spiritual Sovereign, I tried to spread
Religion to the best of my ability. I hunted various games in the
forest, including bears, nilgaus and elks. Then, I left my home and
proceeded towards the city of Paunta. On the banks of the Kalindri, I
refreshed and amused myself with many kinds of amusements. There, I
killed many ferocious lions and also nilgaus and elks."
(Vachitra Natak, Chapter 8, Chaupai 1-3, Dasam Granth)
Now tell me who is your Guru?
Now tell me that Guru Gobind Singh Ji commited a Sin?
Now tell me that Guru Gobind Singh Ji was being disrespectful to Sri
Guru Granth Sahib?
My Guru is the light of Guru Nanak as it appeared in Guru Gobind
Singh! Bhagat Kabir Ji was a great saint, but he is not my Guru.
> said don't consume meat, then the guru himself - the means by which we
> have this bani - Would NOT go against what it said. My Father, Sri
> Guru Gobind Singh jee - Who was the ideal and true Khalsa - would'nt
> tell His sikhs not to eat meat, and then go and eat it himself.
There are over 1,400 pages in Sri Dasam Granth. Show me one line by
Guru Gobind Singh Ji which forbids eating meat. Guru Gobind Singh Ji
has written about staying away from wicked women, he has written
about intoxicants like wine. He as written about drugs and smoking
them. BUT GURU GOBIND SINGH JI HAS NOT EVEN WRITTEN ONE SENTANCE AGAINST
EATING MEAT. Was Guru Ji blind to make such a glaring error? I don't
think so! If it was forbidden for Sikhs to eat meat, Guru Gobind
Singh would have clearly spelled it out OVER AND OVER again, he was a
great writer and poet. In fact no Guru has ever written that Sikhs
should not eat meat. They have written over and over throughout Sri
Guru Granth Sahib, what the evil things are, never ever have they
mentioned meat in that list.
Here's one of thousands of such examples in Sri Guru Granth Sahib:
"Taking halter, men go out at night to strangle others, but the Lord
knows all, O mortal. Concealed in places they look at other women.
They break into places, difficult to acceess and enjoy wine deeming it
sweet. Over their respective misdeeds, they shall themselves
afterwards regret. Azrail, the courier of death shall crush them like
the mill full of sesame." (Guru Arjan Dev, Pauri, pg. 315)
Where the meat???? Nowhere!!!
> He loved us as much as he loved his four shahabzada. Did he sacrifice
> them just to give us freedom so we could do Guru Di Ninnda by claiming
> he ate meat. I don't think so.
> Remember what Bhai Nand (lal) singh ji has said
> "Guru Ki Ninnda Sunnay Na Kaa'n, Bhet Kray tis Sang Kirpan"
Yes let us also put to the Kirpan Bhai Mani Singh for doing Guru Ki
Ninnda.
- Bhai Mani Singh who wrote the final version of Sri Guru Granth
Sahib as dictated to him by Guru Gobind Singh that you find in every
gurdwara
- Bhai Mani Singh who collected every scrap of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's
writings and compiled and gave us the Dasam Granth.
- Bahi Mani Singh who writes in Gyan Ratnavali, pg. 123
that Guru Nanak Dev ATE MEAT at Kurukshetra to show the Hindus the
foolishness of their vegetarian beliefs.
Instead of putting Bhai Mani Singh and all other meat eaters to the
Kirpan. Let me tell you who should be put to the kirpan.
All those who have forgotten the teachings and practices of our Gurus
and instead have reduced our great and mighty religion to
blind rituals should be put to the kirpan for doing Guru Ki Ninnda.
All of the blind rituals and practices that the Gurus fought against
have slowly returned over time. We place emphasis on these
superficial acts to show others, rather than placing emphais on
making ourselves better people.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Sandeep Singh Brar
The Sikhism Home Page
http://www.io.org/~sandeep/sikhism.htm
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