definition of totem
David Dalton
totemic spirit, which I call totemic someone. Also I want to know
if any natives or others consider their totems to be deities to them,
which I do.
When I get a significant sign from a member of another species I say that
I have that species as a totem species and that the totemic someone of that
species, which (the totemic someone) I denote in capitals as Species
Name, is one of my totem deities. I also say that Species Name
is the totem too. Human is also one of my deities but I don't
consider Human to be a totem deity since the human species is my
species and not another species. Some may also have totems which
don't come from a current significant sign but may have come from
a distant past significant sign and which are totems to the tribe.
I don't have any totems of that form.
I define the totemic someone of a species as the smallest (in mass,
or if there is a tie in mass, in volume) someone which contains
the species (including the bodies of species members as well as
their spirits or energy bodies).
For more discussion on this see the web page
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/deities.html
which is a subpage of my Salmon on the Thorns web page
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html
..
David
Steve Hayes
>I'm interested in knowing native and other definitions of totem and
>totemic spirit, which I call totemic someone. Also I want to know
>if any natives or others consider their totems to be deities to them,
>which I do.
Natives of what?
A problem with such generalised terms is that they can be defined in general
ways, quite unrelated to the ways in which they are used by those from whm the
term has been borrowed.
Do the Ojibwa people see their totems as deities?
Steve Hayes
http://www.suite101.com/myhome.cfm/methodius
Brenda G. Kent
> Re: definition of totem
*** I consider totem or power animals as animal spirits that help you
accomplish something and who warn you. By animal spirits I mean a specific
created (by collective mindset)spiritual form of an animal and its
qualities. We keep it strong and manifest by belief and appreciation...we
diminish it by disbelief. What we believe in..we manifest.
For some first peoples in North America (and I am not Indian so cannot
speak for them in truth)a totem animal is an animal that is an ancestor of
their whole clan. Salmon created these folk....Deer these..etc.
Brenda
Steve Hayes
>>A problem with such generalised terms is that they can be defined in general
>>ways, quite unrelated to the ways in which they are used by those from whm the
>>term has been borrowed.
>>
>>Do the Ojibwa people see their totems as deities?
>>
>>
>>Steve Hayes
>>[5] http://www.suite101.com/myhome.cfm/methodius
>
>*** I consider totem or power animals as animal spirits that help you
>accomplish something and who warn you. By animal spirits I mean a specific
>created (by collective mindset)spiritual form of an animal and its
>qualities. We keep it strong and manifest by belief and appreciation...we
>diminish it by disbelief. What we believe in..we manifest.
>For some first peoples in North America (and I am not Indian so cannot
>speak for them in truth)a totem animal is an animal that is an ancestor of
>their whole clan. Salmon created these folk....Deer these..etc.
As I understand t a totem is an animal that symbolises a group of people,
whether you call it a clan, tribe or nation.
Whether or not it is symbolised by an animal, many people see the groups they
belong to as being protected by a deity, a "national spirit" (Volksgeist in
German). One can see examples from the ancient Near East in the Bibles used by
Jews and Christians (Deut 32:1-9; Daniel chapter 10). There is the "Lion of
Judah", and the lion of Scotland, and the lion of Sri Lanka. The USA has an
eagle, and Russia a double-headed eagle.
How far can one go in interpreting totem animals as deities?
And even secular nationalism, as developed in Western Europe in the 19th
century, can be seen as a kind of deifying process, which is not always
benign, as can be seen in the wars of the Yugoslav succession at the end of
the last century. Nationalism can become a kind of religion, with or without
totem animals.
Steve Hayes
http://www.suite101.com/myhome.cfm/methodius
Dirk Bruere
"Steve Hayes" <haye...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3cdc94a4...@news.saix.net...
> >*** I consider totem or power animals as animal spirits that help you
> >accomplish something and who warn you. By animal spirits I mean a
specific
> >created (by collective mindset)spiritual form of an animal and its
> >qualities. We keep it strong and manifest by belief and appreciation...we
> >diminish it by disbelief. What we believe in..we manifest.
> >For some first peoples in North America (and I am not Indian so cannot
> >speak for them in truth)a totem animal is an animal that is an ancestor
of
> >their whole clan. Salmon created these folk....Deer these..etc.
>
> As I understand t a totem is an animal that symbolises a group of people,
> whether you call it a clan, tribe or nation.
It can also be an animal with a personal connection.
Such are very common in Asatru.
> Whether or not it is symbolised by an animal, many people see the groups
they
> belong to as being protected by a deity, a "national spirit" (Volksgeist
in
> German). One can see examples from the ancient Near East in the Bibles
used by
> Jews and Christians (Deut 32:1-9; Daniel chapter 10). There is the "Lion
of
> Judah", and the lion of Scotland, and the lion of Sri Lanka. The USA has
an
> eagle, and Russia a double-headed eagle.
Wales the red Dragon, England the White Dragon, Britain the bulldog...
> How far can one go in interpreting totem animals as deities?
Not very far IMO as they are manifestations of the personal psyche, or when
representing nations they may have characteristics but lack 'personality'
which most deities have.
> And even secular nationalism, as developed in Western Europe in the 19th
> century, can be seen as a kind of deifying process, which is not always
> benign, as can be seen in the wars of the Yugoslav succession at the end
of
> the last century. Nationalism can become a kind of religion, with or
without
> totem animals.
In Asatru the 'Folk' are integral to the religion in the opinion of a large
fraction of the practitioners (referred to as 'Folkish Asatru'). If, like
me, one believes the Gods are aspects of the collective unconscious of the N
Europeans you cannot have one without the other.
FFF
Dirk