What ever happened to Hymn no. 102?
Mikel Morris Pagoeta
Hello,
I joined the Church in 1975 when living in the United States. One hymn
that I really liked was "Though in the Outward Church Below", hymn
no. 102. Recently I acquired a CD-ROM with LDS books and hymns and
naturally went to look up my favourite hymn. To my consternation and
surprise, I found that it wasn't there. I asked some missionaries and
none of them had even heard of it. I was distraught even more.
Apparently it was nixed, expurged, lifted, replaced, zapped,
scrapped, wiped away, obliterated, retired ... whatever you call it,
in the new edition of the Church hymnbook. My question is whether
there are other LDS members out there who remember this rousing
hymn. Was it retired in the American edition only? Is it still around
in British or Australian editions? Maybe it is still around in the
German LDS hymnbook?
Another question is why on earth was hymn no 102, when mention by
the prophets and general authorities themselves in the past (I con-
ducted a search on the CD-ROM to shed some light on it) and now I
find it is not there. Thank you very much. Eskerrik asko
Mikel Morris Pagoeta
The Shoe
No real mystery. When they put together the new hymnal that hymnal missed
the cut. While you might have liked it, it was not a popular hymn.
>
>
>
G. Merrill Dodge
Mikel Morris Pagoeta wrote:
>
> My question is whether
> there are other LDS members out there who remember this rousing
> hymn.
Yes. I grew up in the church and I remember it in the old "blue"
hymnbook. I still have one, because I like the richer musical
arrangements. I still like to use it for special choir numbers. The
"green" hymnbook today has several major differences, but hey, it isn't
cannon! It's a song book. I too enjoyed:
"Tho' In the Outward Church Below
Both wheat and tares together grow."
I don't know why it was left out and not another.
One of the choral experts who worked on the green book was Leo Dean, at
one time an assistant to the director of the tabernacle choir (I know
him through some choral work he did with a group with which I am
associated). The purpose they had was to create a hymn book of songs
more easily sung by congregations not musically trained, They didn't
want it to be exclusively "Utahn" either. Many hymns of the blue and
green editions are from non-lds sources, but they are nevertheless songs
of faith and worship. They did add some of the moving and beloved songs
of the primary organization. That has been refreshing in worship
service. It's amazing what spirit enters the congregational singing when
the small children heartily join in!"
Merrill
------------
Merril...@Unisys.com
Craig Olson
Mikel Morris Pagoeta wrote:
>
> I joined the Church in 1975 when living in the United States. One hymn
> that I really liked was "Though in the Outward Church Below", hymn
> no. 102. Recently I acquired a CD-ROM with LDS books and hymns and
> naturally went to look up my favourite hymn. To my consternation and
> surprise, I found that it wasn't there. I asked some missionaries and
> none of them had even heard of it. I was distraught even more.
> Apparently it was nixed, expurged, lifted, replaced, zapped,
> scrapped, wiped away, obliterated, retired ... whatever you call it,
> in the new edition of the Church hymnbook.
Alas, not only were some fine hymns deleted, but a large number of
the arrangements of the retained hymns were altered. In almost
every case, the alteration in arrangements "dumbed down" the bass
part. I supposed the intent was to make it easier for those with a
limited range to follow along, but the effect in some cases is
almost jarring when the bass line suddenly jumps up towards the
tenor range. <sigh>.
As for other members not being familiar with Though in the Outward
Church Below, don't be too surprised. Many congregation sing about
15 hyms on a regualr basis and never, ever even attempt the more
challenging or less familiar. If you became familiar with the
song, you must have been living in a muscially inclined ward --
a wonderful thing, indeed.
The good news about the "new" hymnbook is that it introduced
several great hymns to the LDS community.
> My question is whether
> there are other LDS members out there who remember this rousing
> hymn.
Yep. Remember and miss it.
Craig, who continues to sing the one, true bass part to several hymns.
--
Eliminate %spam% to reply
mailto: clo@%spam%netins.net
http://www.netins.net/showcase/gershom/
David Bowie
Once upon a time, Mikel Morris Pagoeta <morr...@sarenet.es> wrote:
: I joined the Church in 1975 when living in the United States. One hymn
: that I really liked was "Though in the Outward Church Below", hymn
: no. 102. Recently I acquired a CD-ROM with LDS books and hymns and
: naturally went to look up my favourite hymn. To my consternation and
: surprise, I found that it wasn't there. I asked some missionaries and
: none of them had even heard of it. I was distraught even more.
: Apparently it was nixed, expurged, lifted, replaced, zapped,
: scrapped, wiped away, obliterated, retired ... whatever you call it,
: in the new edition of the Church hymnbook. My question is whether
: there are other LDS members out there who remember this rousing
: hymn. Was it retired in the American edition only? Is it still around
: in British or Australian editions? Maybe it is still around in the
: German LDS hymnbook?
There is one and only one English-language edition of the hymnal,
although non US/English English-speaking people get their national
anthems pasted in--so no, it's not in any English-language hymnals
unless you've got one of the old ones lying around.
It *is* in the German hymnal, but that's the same hymnal they've had
since around WWII (unless they've finally come out with the new German
hymnal and i simply hadn't heard). I would think that it has a better
chance of surviving in the German hymnal, if only 'cause Mozart wrote it
and it actually gets sung occasionally there.
What *i* want to know is why, when those working on the latest hymnal
came to "A mighty fortress is our God," they left in the horrid old
one-verse version of the song. There's an excellent version that's not
under copyright with more verses that gets to the heart of Luther's
original German text (which has 3 verses, FWIW), but we have to make do
with a translation that IMO doesn't capture any of the *soul* of the
original.
<snip>
David, happy that his testimony doesn't rely on the hymnal
--
David Bowie dbo...@mail.sas.upenn.edu
PhD student in Sociolinguistics http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~dbowie
And yes, that actually *is* my real name!
Marc A. Schindler
Peggy Rogers <kro...@xmission.com> wrote:
>
>On 4 May 1997, Mikel Morris Pagoeta wrote:
>
>> I joined the Church in 1975 when living in the United States. One hymn
>> that I really liked was "Though in the Outward Church Below", hymn
>> no. 102. Recently I acquired a CD-ROM with LDS books and hymns and
>> naturally went to look up my favourite hymn. To my consternation and
>> surprise, I found that it wasn't there. I asked some missionaries and
>> none of them had even heard of it. I was distraught even more.
>> Apparently it was nixed, expurged, lifted, replaced, zapped,
>> scrapped, wiped away, obliterated, retired ... whatever you call it,
>> in the new edition of the Church hymnbook. My question is whether
>> there are other LDS members out there who remember this rousing
>> hymn. Was it retired in the American edition only? Is it still around
>> in British or Australian editions? Maybe it is still around in the
>> German LDS hymnbook?
>
>it was the only hymn we had with a melody by Mozart. (We still have
>one in the children's songbook, "I Pledge Myself to Love the Right,"
>but they've also disappeared the lovely Mozart "Allelulia" that was in
>the previous children's songbook.
>
>The hymnbook was revised and the new version put out in 1985. I remember
>because someone gave me a copy when I got married. My guess is that
>songs were left out that didn't have much of a _restored_ gospel message.
>But I really don't know what the criteria were. I do have a copy of
>the older hymnbook, so if you want to send me your snail-mail address
>I'll be glad to send a copy of that hymn.
>
>I remember reading a couple of years ago about hymns that had been
>expunged from various Christian hymnbooks. It seems that militant
>hymns like "Onward, Christian Soldiers" are not in vogue these days.
>I also read that the Anglicans (I think) had removed "Lead, Kindly
>Light" (which is another of my all-time favorites) on the grounds
>that it was too gloomy. Fortunately, we still have both of those in
>the LDS hymnbook.
>
Ah, that old "Solid South" (Germany South, later Germany Munich,
Mission) 2nd-favourite!
Noch Warten, Herr, in deinem Reich,
der Weizen und die Spreu zugleich.
Wenn Jesus kommt mit sichrer Hand,
wird in der Welt die Spreu verbrannt.
[deep breath...beltissimo con gusto]
Schon bald die Erntezeit wird sein,
und Engel bring'n die Ernte ein [here the basso profundo gets
und Engel bring'n die Ernte ein [...and here the tenor] to
Schon bald die Erntezeit wird sein strut his
und Engel bring'n die Ernte ein, stuff]
und Engel bring'n die Ernte ein.
(Nummer 137, Gesangbuch der Kirche Jesu Christi der HLT)
I remember in the LTM (as it was called at the time) we had
an older sister (she must have been all of 30!) who was very
musically inclined and played the piano at zone dedicationals.
She kept trying to get us to sing it lightly and delicately,
"the way Mozart intended it." Sorry, but we sang it the way
the missionaries intended it...I can't remember her name, but
she was from Brigham City and had short blonde hair and blue
eyes.
Later, after my mission, when I developed an abiding and deep
taste for Mozart, I finally heard it the way Mozart intended,
as an almost airy aria by Papageno in die Zauberflöte (the
Magic Flute).
Incidentally, I was mission secretary in 1974 in Munich when
Elder Thomas S. Monson visited our mission, and worked with the
office staff to organize several conferences. He insisted on
closing the missionary conference with his favourite hymn,
Nr. 66, "Sehet, ihr Völker!" I was surprised that he knew this
one, because it was written by a German LDS and was not trans-
lated into English (it was written by L. F. Mönch). He reminded
me that he had been to German-speaking missions very often...
He then told me--and this was the first I had heard this (and
remember, this was way back in 1974)--that the Church was going
to be issuing a new hymnbook "soon" and if he had his way he
was going to get ol' number 66 translated into English. It was
a very rousing hymn (and was our mission's 1st favourite, even
more than Noch Warten Herr) and even better, was directly about
the restoration of the Gospel. He then winked at me and said,
"I'm the chairman of the Music Committee. I wonder if I'll get
my way!" He did.
Trivia question: which hymn am I talking about? (German-speaking
members, return missionaries from germanophone missions, their
immediate families and employees of Schindler's Trivia List, Inc.
are ineligible. Competition approve par la commission des lottos
de Québec. Half an hour later in Newfoundland)
Here are the words in German:
Sehet, ihr Völker, Licht bricht heran!
O, hört! Ein Engel bringt euch den Plan!
Hell wie die Sonne leuchtet die Bahn
jedem nun himmelan!
O wie herrlich von des Himmels Thron
strömt das Licht der Wahrheit nun hervor!
Höret die Stimme, hell wie zuvor,
heute am Welten Tor!
So, sometimes it works the other way 'round. Incidentally, I
had one stake choir director, who wasn't afraid to teach us
"The Heavens Are Telling" by Haydn, that Though In the Outward
Church Below was too difficult for congregational singing. This
is a cultural artefact, as German Saints quite naturally sing
in harmony, even congregationally. At all the regional, district
and stake conferences I've ever attended in Germany, in my 23
years of travelling there (I've been back numerous times since
my mission), I've never heard of a choir practicing -- they just
get together and sing. I've heard the Welsh are like this, too.
Why can't we North Americans learn to like hymn-singing? So now
we've got a new hymnbook full of pap that's not worthy of a
Primary choir, IMHO.
Here's another story I was involved with, albeit peripherally.
Elder Monson knew I was Canadian (he had been MP in the old
Canadian Mission in Toronto and we had acquaintances in common)
and told me that they were going to add some of the other
English-speaking countries' national anthems. In fact I was
later put in touch with someone in SLC on the Music Committee to
ensure that they got the new words to O Canada (which changed
slightly around 1982 or so [which makes hockey games a real
cacophony because most people can't get the new words right]).
Unfortunately they decided that this would be too impractical,
so they compromised, by leaving in the U.S. national anthem,
O Say Can You See, as well as what I consider to be the truly
American (i.e. hemispheric) hymn, America the Beautiful, and
the old British royal hymn, God Save the King [or Queen, or as
is the case with Charles, the Crown Tampon, but I digress...],
and for other anglophone countries provide a paste-in insert
to go in the back of the book.
So although there is no British or Australian or Canadian edition
of the English hymnbook, hymnbooks in those countries should
have their respective national anthems in the back.
Some more trivia (usual restrictions apply: no Commonwealth
LDS, return missionaries or immediate family or employees of
Schindler's Trivia List, Inc., are eligible to participate):
What is the national anthem of Australia?
For extra credit, what's the best French restaurant in Adelaide
(it's not an entirely unrelated question)
What is the national anthem of Canada?
For extra credit, name any other patriotic song of Canada or
one of its regions (incl. Quebec)
What is the national anthem of England (trick question)?
What tune has had more patriotic hymns written to it than any
other?
What tune was written as a partriotic hymn but is now best known
as part of a Beethoven symphony? (hint: its words were changed
to get around Napoleon's censors)
--
Marc A. Schindler,
Spruce Grove, Alberta. "There are three kinds of mathematicians:
those who can count, and those who can't." - Kevin Gödel
Rich Wales
Mikel Morris Pagoeta wrote:
I joined the Church in 1975 . . . . One hymn that I really
liked was "Though in the Outward Church Below", hymn no.
102. . . . Was it retired in the American edition only?
Is it still around in British or Australian editions?
Peggy Rogers <kro...@xmission.com> wrote:
I'm with you Mikel! TinOCB was one of my favorites, too!
. . . My guess is that songs were left out that didn't
have much of a _restored_ gospel message.
I don't know for certain why this hymn was taken out, but I'm glad it
was, because I feel the lyrics were =really= inappropriate.
To be sure, the text did contain a valid doctrinal message (namely, that
some members of the Church would fall away and thereby reap eternal con-
demnation for sinning against greater knowledge). But I, for one, never
felt this was a very fitting thing to sing about, even if the tune was
written by Mozart and was fun to sing.
I cringed whenever we sang this hymn in a meeting where investigators
might be present, and I refused ever to choose it as a hymn whenever I
served as a ward music director.
To the best of my knowledge, there is only one official hymnal in use
throughout all English-speaking congregations of the Church worldwide.
So, no, when this hymn was omitted in the current English hymnal, the
effect was to retire it everywhere, not just in the US.
Rich Wales ri...@webcom.com http://www.webcom.com/richw/
(member of the Kitchener 2nd Ward, Kitchener Ontario Stake)
Peggy Rogers
You know, everybody, I love the way this thread is going! I mean, this
is the sort of thing that people are always complaining about the lack
of: Latter-day Saints talking to each other about gospel subjects, not
having to defend the church from various detractors. Thanks to Mikel
for getting us started!
On 5 May 1997, Marc A. Schindler wrote:
<major snippage>
> Trivia question: which hymn am I talking about? (German-speaking
> members, return missionaries from germanophone missions, their
> immediate families and employees of Schindler's Trivia List, Inc.
> are ineligible. Competition approve par la commission des lottos
> de Qu=E9bec. Half an hour later in Newfoundland)
>=20
> Here are the words in German:
>=20
> Sehet, ihr V=F6lker, Licht bricht heran!
> O, h=F6rt! Ein Engel bringt euch den Plan!
> Hell wie die Sonne leuchtet die Bahn
> jedem nun himmelan!
>=20
> O wie herrlich von des Himmels Thron
> str=F6mt das Licht der Wahrheit nun hervor!
> H=F6ret die Stimme, hell wie zuvor,
> heute am Welten Tor!
That's got to be "Hark, All Ye Nations!" currently Hymn # 264. I
agree that it's a charming one. In fact, I think it's my favorite
of the new songs in the current hymnal. Unfortunately, I like
neither "How Great Thou Art" nor "I Believe in Christ," which seem
to be among the "Top 40" that someone else has mentioned. When I
was a child, of course, it never occurred to me that a person could
_dislike_ a hymn, so I'm pretty fond of the ones in the old blue
book. I suppose that's one of the disadvantages of being a grown-up.
| Imaginary evil is romantic and varied; real
Peggy Rogers | evil is gloomy, monotonous, barren, boring.
kro...@xmission.com | Imaginary good is boring; real good is always
| new, marvelous, intoxicating. --Simone Weil
Harold [Hal] F Lillywhite
I too liked the hymn, "Though in the Outward Church Below." However
I'm sure that the committee which assembled the current hymnal had
to make some hard choices. Today we certainly have no lack of
wonderful hymns, the problem is choosing which to include while
keeping the hymnal to a reasonable size. There is no way to include
all the great songs we might like. This means that there are some I
would like included which are not. Of course the flip side is that
there are some newly included which I really like (eg., "How Great
Thou Art," one of my favorites).
Also as the church grows we are in more and more areas where musical
training uncommon. For that reason many of the tunes have been made
easier to sing. In some cases I prefer the older ones but I have to
realize that the small branch in the Australian Outback may have a
problem with those older tunes. As much as I like the fancy tunes
(even though I don't claim to be able to sing them) I think it is
better to encourage every member to sing rather than have prettier
tunes which would discourage some.
We do still have some old hymnals around the house so we can sing
them as a family. (Thanks to my talented wife most everybody in the
family except me can sing well.)
Blain Nelson
Peggy Rogers wrote:
>
> You know, everybody, I love the way this thread is going! I mean, this
> is the sort of thing that people are always complaining about the lack
> of: Latter-day Saints talking to each other about gospel subjects, not
> having to defend the church from various detractors. Thanks to Mikel
> for getting us started!
>
It's been fun.
> Unfortunately, I like
> neither "How Great Thou Art" nor "I Believe in Christ," which seem
> to be among the "Top 40" that someone else has mentioned. When I
> was a child, of course, it never occurred to me that a person could
> _dislike_ a hymn, so I'm pretty fond of the ones in the old blue
> book. I suppose that's one of the disadvantages of being a grown-up.
>
Interesting. I like "I Believe in Christ," and it seems to have hit the
Top 40 around here -- with some support from the MoTab to get it
everywhere. I don't care for that arrangement of "How Great Thou Art,"
though, and I don't like it used as a hymn -- it works best as a solo
or, perhaps, a choir piece IMO.
In the Institute Choir I'm in, we've been doing some fun arrangements of
hymnal pieces. We did have one dog -- don't recall the arranger, but it
was based on Praise to the Man, and included what I consider one of the
stupidest lines I've ever sung (I was singing along at the top of my
lungs as we got up to that line, and I couldn't stop myself from
laughing out loud. It took me several minutes to regain my composure),
that being "Praise to the man who will not die again."
I'm also having the strange situation of singing an arrangement of a
hymn I love (I Stand All Amazed -- probably my favorite hymn), and I
like the arrangement, but I can't sing it well (it's a bass-bass and I'm
a baritone-bass, and spending half the song on a low a flat leaves me a
bit hoarse.
> | Imaginary evil is romantic and varied; real
> Peggy Rogers | evil is gloomy, monotonous, barren, boring.
> kro...@xmission.com | Imaginary good is boring; real good is always
> | new, marvelous, intoxicating. --Simone Weil
Take care,
Blain
--
Wanted: Blain Nelson aka bla...@pacificrim.net aka Rahab the Tyrant
aka anon-...@anon.twwells.com aka My Kids' Dad aka not-Kristi
Subject is considered armed and legged. Persecutors will be violated.
http://www.pacificrim.net/~blainn/ My hat says "It's Irony"
Craig Anderson
Peggy Rogers <kro...@xmission.com> wrote in article
<5kng5t$s...@q.seanet.com>...
> Unfortunately, I like
> neither "How Great Thou Art" nor "I Believe in Christ," which seem
> to be among the "Top 40" that someone else has mentioned.
I'm with you on the first one. I've never particularly like "How Great Thou
Art". I didn't like it before and I don't like it now. Unfortunately, it
seems like my ward is trying to make up for all the lost years when we
didn't sing it because it sure gets a workout now! Sigh.
As for "I Believe In Christ", I like that one. Unfortunately, it is _way_
too long.
> When I
> was a child, of course, it never occurred to me that a person could
> _dislike_ a hymn, so I'm pretty fond of the ones in the old blue
> book. I suppose that's one of the disadvantages of being a grown-up.
Yeah. I still get confused with "How Firm A Foundation" since they changed
some of the words in there. I always tend to sing the old words. 8-) Of
course, I do the same thing with "Praise To The Man"
(Long shall his blood which was shed by assasins
Stain Illinois while the earth lauds his fame...
if I've got it right. 8-)
Craig
Guy R. Briggs
Blain Nelson <bla...@the.address.below> wrote:
|
| Of course, there isn't a lot of tenor stuff in the green books
| that is all that tenor anyhow -- I'm really a frustrated baritone
| (expecially frustrated because it's rare that I'm in a church
| related choir in which there are enough basses that I can attempt
| to sing baritone the few times there is a baritone line) rather
| than a bass or tenor, and I'm finding I can reach most tenor notes
| in the green book comfortably (hearing them, when you're used to
| hearing the bass line, is another matter).
|
Being an old barbershopper, I will attempt to 'splain the finer
points of singing LDS hymns in 4-part har-moh-nee.
First off, you haven't a soprano nor an alto. In barbershop, they are
replaced by the Lead and Baritone, respectively. (There's an old joke
about a "fishy" quartette - 1st Tuna, 2nd Tuna, Barricuda and Bass) but
in a *real* barbershop quartette it's Tenor, Lead, Baritone and Bass.
The Lead sings the melody line. In a hymn, this is the soprano line.
In most quartettes, the lead has the strongest voice, but is seldom the
best looking.
The Tenor sings close harmony with the Lead. In an LDS hymn, they
sing the regular Tenor line. They generally have a tweeter and a woofer
in each nostril, and can hit "A" above middle "C" without sounding like
fingernails on a blackboard. Good barbershop Tenors are worth their
weight in gold.
The Bass anchors the chord and should have a voice that rattles
windows and sounds a little like a foghorn. Basses tend to be heavier
than the other members of the quartette, but there are exceptions to
this rule.
The Baritone adds color and completeness to the chord. When
singing an LDS hymn, he takes the Alto part. You can never quite hear a
good barbershop Baritone, but the chord sounds lifeless without him. He
should be seen, but not heard - which is why he is generally the
best-looking of the four.
Best Regards,
Guy R. "sang Baritone with 'The Uncalled Four' in high school" Briggs
P.S. The best hymn in the book (either one) is "Gently Raise the
Sacred Strain"
Diana Newman
Raymond Bingham wrote:
>
> I uncovered clues pointing to Marc A. Schindler (msc...@spam-off.connect.ab.ca) having written:
> [snip]
> >[deep breath...beltissimo con gusto]
>
> Ummm... I know my Italian is a bit rusty, but as I recall, "beltissimo"
> has never been an italian word... ;)
>
> Nice try though... :)
>
> Best regards,
Now, as a former (twenty years, off and on) choir/Sacrament/Sunday
School/Primary/Relief Society (and yes, I even got to lead the
Priesthood Meeting songs a time or two) director, I have to tell you
that Italian or not, *I* LIKE it. (G)
"beltissimo".....beats "forte" all hollow. Now, if only I could get the
congregation to do either one.....
Back when we had practice hymn singing in Sunday School, I got rather
tired of the usual
put-your-head-in-the-book-and-sort-of-follow-the-music style of singing,
so in the middle of "Put your shoulder to the wheel", I stopped waving
my arms in time to the music and started doing jumping jacks. When that
didn't work, I went over to the bishop, gave him the baton and had him
lead beside me. I had the bishopric, half the stake presidency and two
deacons up there waving away before the congregation noticed. (Sigh)
On the other hand, I finally got their attention THAT time...and after
that, "put your shoulder to the wheel" was always sung 'beltissimo"!
diana
Peggy Rogers
On 5 May 1997, David Bowie wrote:
> What *i* want to know is why, when those working on the latest hymnal
> came to "A mighty fortress is our God," they left in the horrid old
> one-verse version of the song. There's an excellent version that's not
> under copyright with more verses that gets to the heart of Luther's
> original German text (which has 3 verses, FWIW), but we have to make do
> with a translation that IMO doesn't capture any of the *soul* of the
> original.
This reminds me of a time when I was in college and invited my roommate,
raised a Lutheran, to come to church with me. I was pleased that the
opening hymn was "A Mighty Fortress," and asked if it made her feel
at home. She replied that, no, it didn't, because it was nothing like
the hymn she was familiar with.
> <snip>
>
> David, happy that his testimony doesn't rely on the hymnal
And a good thing, too, since it contains a certain amount of doctrine
which is, shall we say, less than orthodox? The most glaring example,
IMHO, is the hymn "In Humility, Our Savior." Consider the closing lines:
Then, when we have proven worthy of Thy sacrifice divine,
Lord, let us regain Thy presence. Let Thy glory round us shine.
I hope there is no one out there in Mormondom who seriously thinks
that he or she can proven him/herself _worthy_ of Christ's sacrifice.
It would almost lead someone to think we believed that people can work
their way into heaven by their own righteousness. ;->
Craig Olson
Peggy Rogers wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, I like neither "How Great Thou Art" nor "I Believe
> in Christ," which seem to be among the "Top 40" that someone else
> has mentioned.
I happen to really like "HGTA", but I can understand it has a limited
appeal. I think I like it, in part, because we finally got around to
recognizing that there are hymns outside of Mormon hymnody that have
some value. It almost seemed that we got hung up on avoiding any
hint of denominational Christian hymns that we were willing to forget
that that's exactly the origin of many of the hymns many members see
as "Mormon". Sort of a form of MC (Mormoninal Correctness), long
before anyone thought of being politically correct.
I felt the same way when they pulled the Latin lyrics to "O Come All
Ye Faithful" when we went to the blue hymnals. I think I was born a
curmudgeon.
> When I
> was a child, of course, it never occurred to me that a person could
> _dislike_ a hymn, so I'm pretty fond of the ones in the old blue
> book. I suppose that's one of the disadvantages of being a grown-up.
Ah, to be so uncritical. :^) There are still a number of hymns that
are included in the green book I would really rather not sing, and
a few more that I would like to see slid in the next time. "Amazing
Grace" comes to mind, for example. BTW, I was watching a BBC show about
18th century hymns and they included a performance of another of
John Newton's hymns (I think from the original Olney hymnal), and
it was not only a very nice hymn but doctrinally solid as well.
I've always meant to try to track it down.
Craig
--
Eliminate %spam% to reply
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"One often contradicts an opinion when what is uncongenial is really
the tone in which it was conveyed." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
Craig Olson
Guy R. Briggs wrote:
>
> Being an old barbershopper, I will attempt to 'splain the finer
> points of singing LDS hymns in 4-part har-moh-nee.
>
> The Lead sings the melody line. In a hymn, this is the soprano line.
With exceptions. Most notable being "The Lord is My Shepherd" where the
altos actually get to sing the pretty part for a change.
<snip>
> The Bass anchors the chord and should have a voice that rattles
> windows and sounds a little like a foghorn. Basses tend to be heavier
> than the other members of the quartette, but there are exceptions to
> this rule.
Which is my argument (okay, disappointment) with some of the "simplified"
bass parts in the green hymnal: there are times when the chord drops its
anchor. If you are listening as well as participating in the singing,
it sounds like the bottom just dropped off the music. I assume this
was done for the less foghornlike male singers, but it would have been
nice to stick in at least one of the little tiny notes that are sometimes
used as organist clues.
Craig, without them I, too, could be clueless.
Erik Spjut
As the Church puts out a new hymnbook every 40 years or so, we only have
28 years left until the next one. Perhaps some noble soul will undertake
the arduous task of compiling a list of what they did wrong and did right
with the last release. I'll add my thoughts to get that person started:
Boo-boo's:
Previously mentioned bass-line massacres including minor-7th and major-6th
upward leaps where there used to be pleasant major-2nd and minor 3rd
descending steps.
Transposal of many of the cool key signatures like Db and Ab to wimpy C and G.
Removal of many of the cool counterpoint parts, like the "Wonderful"s in
"I stand All Amazed."
Changing many of the compound time signatures like 9/8 to 3/4 with added
triplets.
Removal of some people's favorite hymns.
Removal of the cool "Baum Baum" notes at the end of the first line of "The
World Has Need of Willing Men".
Not giving credit to J.S. Bach for the only hymn he has left in the book.
Perpetuating the historical fallacy that Handel and not Lowell Mason wrote
"Joy to the World."
Improvements:
Completely replacing the music to "If You Could Hie to Kolob" with that
awesome Ralph Vaughn Williams E-minor-modal tune.
Transposal of many of the difficult key signatures like Db and Ab to much
easier C and G.
Changing many of the uncommon compound time signatures like 9/8 to more
common 3/4 with added triplets.
Adding some wonderful Primary songs, e.g., "I Am a Child of God" and "In
Our Lovely Deseret"
Putting pseudo-tenor cleffs in the men's choir arrangements (purists would
have preferred true tenor cleffs but no-one but violists and corno players
can read them).
Actually telling the musical illiterate what line is the melody in the
men's choir arrangements.
Adding some nice new hymns like "That Easter Morn".
Supporting the Jethro Tull fans with "Once in Royal David's City."
Blain Nelson
Guy R. Briggs wrote:
>
> Being an old barbershopper, I will attempt to 'splain the finer
> points of singing LDS hymns in 4-part har-moh-nee.
>
Okie, but let's make sure we're on the same page. I've not been in may
barbershop experiences with any hymnal (the closest would probably be
"Have I Done Any Good"). I spent a little over a year doing bari in
SPEBSQSA (Mt. Baker Toppers) and could probably still fudge my way
through a few pole cats (Nellie, Wild Irish Rose, Sweet and Lovely --
maybe more than a few).
> The Tenor sings close harmony with the Lead. In an LDS hymn, they
> sing the regular Tenor line. They generally have a tweeter and a woofer
> in each nostril, and can hit "A" above middle "C" without sounding like
> fingernails on a blackboard. Good barbershop Tenors are worth their
> weight in gold.
And you only need about one or two in a whole chorus -- good ones, that
is.
> The Baritone adds color and completeness to the chord. When
> singing an LDS hymn, he takes the Alto part. You can never quite hear a
> good barbershop Baritone, but the chord sounds lifeless without him. He
> should be seen, but not heard - which is why he is generally the
> best-looking of the four.
>
This has certainly been my experience.
> Best Regards,
>
> Guy R. "sang Baritone with 'The Uncalled Four' in high school" Briggs
>
> P.S. The best hymn in the book (either one) is "Gently Raise the
> Sacred Strain"
I like that one. Not sure I could go for "best" for myself, though.
Maybe I ought to actually go through the green book and create my own
Top 40 (or so). Hmm....
Guy R. Briggs
Craig Olson <clo@%spam%netins.net> wrote:
| Guy R. Briggs wrote:
|
|> The Bass anchors the chord and should have a voice that rattles
|> windows and sounds a little like a foghorn. Basses tend to be heavier
|> than the other members of the quartette, but there are exceptions to
|> this rule.
|
| Which is my argument (okay, disappointment) with some of the
| "simplified" bass parts in the green hymnal: there are times when
| the chord drops its anchor. If you are listening as well as
| participating in the singing, it sounds like the bottom just dropped
| off the music. I assume this was done for the less foghornlike male
| singers, but it would have been nice to stick in at least one of the
| little tiny notes that are sometimes used as organist clues.
|
have a little pocket version of the old hymnal!
Best Regards,
Guy R. "BrickWall" Briggs ----------- net...@mindspring.com
"All God's critters got a place in the choir,
Some sing low, some sing higher.
Some sing out loud on the telephone wire!
And some just clap their hands, or paws,
Or anything they got."
Marc A. Schindler
Peggy Rogers <kro...@xmission.com> wrote:
>On 5 May 1997, David Bowie wrote:
>
>> What *i* want to know is why, when those working on the latest hymnal
>> came to "A mighty fortress is our God," they left in the horrid old
>> one-verse version of the song. There's an excellent version that's not
>> under copyright with more verses that gets to the heart of Luther's
>> original German text (which has 3 verses, FWIW), but we have to make do
>> with a translation that IMO doesn't capture any of the *soul* of the
>> original.
>
>This reminds me of a time when I was in college and invited my roommate,
>raised a Lutheran, to come to church with me. I was pleased that the
>opening hymn was "A Mighty Fortress," and asked if it made her feel
>at home. She replied that, no, it didn't, because it was nothing like
>the hymn she was familiar with.
>
Well, I can't say I blame her. I don't know if this is an LDS
thang or an anglophone thang, but the German version is not
only different lyrically, but the tune is different.
Here's the English tune, compared bar-by-bar with the German
tune (out of our LDS "Gesangbuch").
Notes: # = sharp; % = flat 1 = whole note; 2 = half note, etc.
[note the change in tempo in the middle of the German version]
English tune English lyrics German tune
-----------------------------------------------------------------
D4 A D4
D4 D4 A8 B8 C#4 mighty fortress D4 D4 A4 C#4
D8 C#8 B4 A4 D4 is our God. A D8 C#8 B4 A4 D4
C#4 B4 A4 B8 A8 tower of strength ne'er C#4 B4 A4 B4
G8 F#8 E4 D4 D4 failing. A G8-F#8 E8 D4 D4
D4 D4 A8 B8 C#4 helper mighty D4 D4 A4 C#4
D8 C#8 B4 A4 D4 is our God. O'er D8 C#8 B4 A4 D4
C#4 B4 A4 B8 A8 ills of life pre- C#4 B4 A4 B4
G8 F#8 E4 D4 D4 vailing. He G8-F#8 E4 D4
A4 B4 A4 G#4 overcometh [3/4] B4 / A4 B8 A8 G#8
A4 D4 A4 A4 all. He saveth G2 D4
B4 C#4 D4 C#4 from the Fall. His A4 B4 C#4
D4 C#4 B4 B4 might and pow'r are D4 C#4 B4 / A2
A4 B4 B4 A4 great. He all things [4/4] B4 / B4 A4 B4 G4
B8 A8 G4 F#4 D4 did create. And F2 D4 / C#4 B4 A4 B4
C#4 B4 A4 B8 A8 he shall reing for- G8 F#8 E4 D
G8 F8 E4 D4 evermore.
Here are the German lyrics, together with a fairly literal,
non-poetic translation (but one which shows the very earthy,
direct German Luther employed):
Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott,
ein gute Wehr und Waffen;
er hilft uns frei aus aller Not,
die uns jetzt hat betroffen.
Der alte böse Feind,
mit Ernst ers jetzt meint;
groß Macht und viel List,
sein grausam Rüstung ist.
Auf Erd ist nicht seins Gleichen.
A mighty fortress is our God,
a good protection and armament;
He helps us free from all need,
which we have now encountered.
The old evil enemy,
means it seriously now;
great power and many assets,
are his gruesome armour.
His likeness is not to be seen on Earth.
Mit unsrer Macht ist nichts getan,
wir sind gar bald verloren;
es stret't für uns der rechte Mann,
den Gott selbst hat erkoren.
Fragst du, wer der ist?
Er heißt Jesus Christ,
der Herr Zebaoth,
und ist kein andrer Gott;
das Feld muß er behalten!
We can do nothing with our power,
we would be soon lost;
The righteous man struggles for us,
He whom God Himself has chosen.
You ask, who is that?
He's named Jesus Christ,
the Lord of Hosts,
and there's no other God;
He must hold the field.
Das Wort sie sollen lassen stahn,
und kein'n Dank dazu haben!
Er ist bei uns wohl auf dem Plan,
mit seinem Geist und Gaben.
Und nehm'n sie den Leib,
Gut, Ehr, Kind und Weib:
laß fahren dahin,
sie habens kein Gewinn,
das Reich muß uns doch bleiben!
They are to let the Word stand,
and not feel obligated thereto.
He is with us on the plain,
with his Spirit and Gifts.
Though they take our body,
possessions, honour, child and womenfolk:
Let them go wherever,
they have no profit,
the Kingdom will remain our's.
Sorry about my lousy translation; it's such earthy
German in the original that it's almost like
Mother Goose. (saying "Leib, Gut, Ehr, Kind und Weib"
is kind of like saying in English, "everything but
the kitchen sink." Like English, German has a choice
of words, and these ones are all monosyllabic and
not borrowed from Latin like some other possibilities,
like Körper for body; "Weib" implies a woman as a
possession, as opposed to "Frau" which is more like
"lady.")
Lynn Diana Gazis
Marc A. Schindler (msc...@spam-off.connect.ab.ca) wrote:
> [Lots of lyrics and comparison of notes]
Yikes, the LDS lyrics are nothing like the ones I grew up with! This is
what I grew up with:
A mighty fortress is our God
A bulwark never failing
Our helper he amid the flood
Of mortal ills prevailing
For still our ancient foe
Doth seek to work us woe
His craft and power are great
And armed with cruel hate
On earth is not his equal
Did we in our own strength confide
The battle would be losing
Were not the right man on our side
The man of God's own choosing
Dost ask who that may be
Christ Jesus it is he
Lord Sabaoth his name
>From age to age the same
And he must win the battle
So though this world with devils filled
Doth threaten to undo us
We shall not fear for God hath willed
His Truth to triump through us
The Prince of Darkness grim
We tremble not for him
His rage we may endure
For lo, his doom is sure
One little word shall fell him
That word above all earthly power
No thanks to them abideth
The Spirit and the gifts are ours
Through him who with us sideth
Let goods and kindred go
This mortal life also
This body they may kill
God's Truth abideth still
His kingdom is forever
Looking at the German Marc gave, it looks like this version is closer,
though still not the same. The one verse version looks as if it has lost
most of the meaning of the song :-(.
Lynn Gazis-Sax
Robert Craig Harman
Marc A. Schindler wrote:
>
> Ah, that old "Solid South" (Germany South, later Germany Munich,
> Mission) 2nd-favourite!
>
> Noch Warten, Herr, in deinem Reich,
> der Weizen und die Spreu zugleich.
This is the French version (I'm not sure about the end of the second
line):
Dans l'Eglise ici-bas, on voit
Qu'avec le ble, l'ivraie croit(?)
Mais Jesus-Christ bientot viendra,
C'est lui qui les separera.
De la moisson, viendra le temps
Les anges tout en brulant l'ivraie
Recolteront tout le froment...
(repeated once)
It was definitely one of my favorite hymns in French. In fact, in
French, to get around losing it, they moved the music to another
hymn (the one by Naomi W. Randall) which they couldn't translate and
fit to the music of the English version. It goes:
L'amour de Dieu, sa force aussi,
Toujours en moi, j'ai ressenti.
Ses dons promis me font gouter
Sa joie et sa serenite.
Je donne a Dieu, avec bonheur,
Ma foi, mon bien, ma vie, mon coeur
A mon ami, a mon Sauveur.
(repeated once)
The words are not only not as pretty, but they also constitute
much poorer writing.
--
Robert Craig Harman En France, appelez 01 34 80 04 83 pour
BYU Chemical Engineering recevoir un Livre de Mormon gratuit...
Master's Candidate
LDS France Paris Mission http://www.et.byu.edu/~harmanr/mission.html
Blain Nelson
Grant O'Neil wrote:
>
> As grammatic Italian it may be a bit lacking, but as a descriptive
> musical direction it seems to me to be right on the mark. Actually, in
> my experience this is the only way any group of missionaries can sing,
> if the hymn happens to be one like the "Spirit of God", "We Thank Thee,
> Oh God, for a Prophet", or any of the other rousing "favourites". As a
> general rule, enthusiasm and volume is generally used in abundance to
> compensate for any lack of tunefulness ;-)
>
"We don't sing perty, but we sure sing loud!"
They aren't called because of their looks, intellects, maturity, or
talent. Some of them have one or more of these, but that's not the
point. I understand that getting an MTC full of them singing "Called to
Serve" can be quite moving, though.
> (when it comes to church singing I am actually a frustrated baritone,
> but most often sing bass as it has the more interesting parts in most
> arrangements in the hymn book)
>
We FBs need to stick together. Of course, that's difficult when we live
in different hemispheres, but I'm sure there are a few more of us out
there. (Hey, do I need to apply for an acronym permit to get this
through robomod?)
> Now for my question:
> Just how sacrosanct is the hymn book? If we accept that the hymns
> contained in the hymn book are all officially approved doctrinally and
> this accounts for the sometimes minor variations from common non-LDS
> version of certain hymns ("How Great Thou Art" being an example), is
> there any reason why the text of a hymn that is contained in the hymn
> book may not be sung to a different, but appropriate, tune as a choir
> item in, say, a Sacrament meeting?
>
Sacrament meeting is presided over by the Bishop, who is responsible for
the manner in which it is conducted, and this includes the music as well
as the talks, the prayers, and the sacrament. If the bishop approves
it, you can have the sacrament hymn sung by a choir or soloist, although
this is not the way it is normally done.
The green book includes information that make it easy to do a fair
number of hymns to the the music of other hymns, and, with practice
hymns no longer being an option, the only way I can see that happening
would be with the choir, or a soloist, or an ensemble (I saw a quartet
do a nice job with The Lord is My Shepherd to the music of More Holiness
Give Me at a Fireside).
> Speaking of choirs, I will in three days enjoy the undoubted highlight
> of my singing career - Pres. Hinkley will be in Perth, and I have the
> opportunity to sing in the combined stakes choir for this conference.
> Just for the record, this will be the first time ever that Perth has
> enjoyed a visit from a President of the Church while he has been serving
> as President (we have had visits from several previous Presidents while
> they were Apostles, and Pres Hinkley himself apparently has been here
> before; I must have been too young at the time to remember...)
Cool. The largest choir I was in was at Area Conference in BC Place
(Vancouver), where we sung O, Canada and Sweet Is the Work. It was
really cool, the director was wonderful (I have no idea who she was/is),
and the accoustics were bizarre (BC Place is huge -- we had members
coming from Alaska, Western Canada, Washington and Oregon, and we took
up maybe a tenth of the whole place. It was weird listening to General
Authorities speaking with ads for beer and cigarettes flashing brightly
all around the building.)
>
> _ .
> Grant O'Neil
Take care,
Blain
--
The opinions expressed here are not only mine, they are yours too.
Aren't you glad I told you? bla...@pacificrim.net
http://www.pacificrim.net/~blainn/ anon-...@anon.twwells.com
<c> 1997 Blain Nelson All Rights Reserved Film rights available
Marc A. Schindler
gazi...@netcom.com (Lynn Diana Gazis) wrote:
>Marc A. Schindler (msc...@spam-off.connect.ab.ca) wrote:
>
>> [Lots of lyrics and comparison of notes]
>
>Yikes, the LDS lyrics are nothing like the ones I grew up with! This is
>what I grew up with:
>
literal translation>
>Looking at the German Marc gave, it looks like this version is closer,
>though still not the same. The one verse version looks as if it has lost
>most of the meaning of the song :-(.
>
>Lynn Gazis-Sax
>
In Karen Lynn Davidson's "Our Latter-day Hymns: the Stories and
the Messages" (Salt Lake City, Deseret, 1988) she merely notes
that the version in the LDS hymnal has words by "Martin Luther
(adapted)" but she does give Lynn's version, too, and ascribes
it to The Methodist Hymnal, which used a translation by Fred-
erick H. Hedge (1805-1890). One suspects that Hedge's transla-
tion is relatively later than the one which ultimately came to
be used in the LDS hymnal. Any hymnal text critics out there?
Marc A. Schindler
(Thanks, BTW to Rich for correcting my title of the U.S. national
anthem. You'd've thought it would have sunk in all those times
we paused for its playing while going to class at BYU! Too much
maple sugar in my veins, I guess...)
Anyway, here are the answer to my questions about the national
anthems which are included in various English-speaking countries
as Hymn No. 342 [for you Unistatians and Brits, don't bother --
there is no 342 in your versions]:
AUSTRALIA: Advance Australia Fair
(No, Waltzing Matilda is _not_ Australia's national anthem, al-
though there used to be a good French restaurant in Adelaide
called La Mathilde qui danse)
Australians all let us rejoice, For we are young and free;
We've golden soil and wealth for toil, Our home is girt by sea.
Our land abounds in nature's gifts Of beauty rich and rare;
In history's page, let every stage Advance Australia fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing, 'Advance Australia fair.'
Beneath our radiant Southern Cross We'll toil with hearts & hands
To make this Commonwealth of ours Renowned of all the lands.
For those who've come across the seas We've boundless plains
to share,
With courage let us all combine To advance Australia fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing, 'Advance Australia fair.'
NEW ZEALAND: God Defend New Zealand (I'll only give the first
verse here, but in both national languages):
God of Nations! At Thy feet In the bonds of love we meet;
Hear our voices we entreat, God defend our free land.
Guard Pacific's triple star From the shafts of strife and war,
Make her praises heard afar, God defend New Zealand.
E Ihowa, Atua. O nga Iwi! Matou ra,
Ata whakarongona, Me Aroha noa.
Kia hua ko te pai, Kia tau To ata' whai,
Manaakitia mai Aotearoa.
CANADA: O Canada! (again, will only give the first verse,as that
is all that is normally sung; but am also giving it in both
official languages, as the words are totally different)
O Canada! Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise
The True North, strong and free
>From far and wide, O Canada, [this is one of the changes]
We stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land Glorious and free! [and another]
O Canada we stand on guard for thee,
O Canada! We stand on guard for thee.
O Canada! Terre de nos aïeux,
Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux!
Car ton bras sait porter l'epée,
Il sait porter la croix!
Ton histoire est une épopée
des plus brillants exploits.
Et ta valeur,
de foi trempé,
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits,
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.
Anyone know of any others that are in other English-language
hymnbooks?
Some regional Canadian anthems: Rich Wales referred to The
Maple Leaf Forever, which most Upper Canadians (aka Ontarians)
assume is national, but is in reality only sung in Ontario.
Nova Scotia has "Farewell to Nova Scotia," which is a very
moving song (we sang it at the Canadian Thanksgiving we had
at the Wilkinson Center at BYU, October 1975); Newfoundland
has two that I can think of: "I's the B'y That Builds the
Boat" and "We'll Rant and We'll Rave Like True Newfoundlanders"
(I'm not kidding), the Ottawa Valley has "Le Raftsman" and
when I was preparing to leave my last assignment on my mission,
the elders in my district (Offenburg, Germany) surprised me
with a cake and a tape of Gordon Lightfoot singing "Alberta
Bound." But Alberta's real provincial anthem is "Four Strong
Winds" which was written by hometown cowboy Ian Tyson, and
made popular by he and his (now ex-) wife, Sylvia.
Oh, and Quebec has "Mon Pays, c'est l'Hiver" plus oodles of
folk songs.
Best Sellers
Craig Olson thought hard about this before writing:
-> Alas, not only were some fine hymns deleted, but a large number of
-> the arrangements of the retained hymns were altered. In almost
-> every case, the alteration in arrangements "dumbed down" the bass
-> part. I supposed the intent was to make it easier for those with a
-> limited range to follow along, but the effect in some cases is
-> almost jarring when the bass line suddenly jumps up towards the
-> tenor range. <sigh>.
Yes, it is, and I still find myself "singing" solo in many of
them. Problem is, of course, I don't sing at all well. But I
miss the countertemps and other "interesting" bass parts. (Oh,
it is WONDERFUL)
-> As for other members not being familiar with Though in the Outward
-> Church Below, don't be too surprised. Many congregation sing about
-> 15 hyms on a regualr basis and never, ever even attempt the more
-> challenging or less familiar. If you became familiar with the
-> song, you must have been living in a muscially inclined ward --
-> a wonderful thing, indeed.
Again, all too true. But that is a price we pay for losing
Sunday School as a separate meeting. BTW, what does a Suncday
School President REALLY do? (My brother says his preferred job
in the Church is second counsellor to the SS Pres: ABSOLUTELY
no duties.)
-> The good news about the "new" hymnbook is that it introduced
-> several great hymns to the LDS community.
I particularly like "How Great Thou Art". I'd also like to sing
"What a Firend we have in Jesus" once in a while.
-> Craig, who continues to sing the one, true bass part to several hymns.
Lehi, who usually sings the two or three, true bass parts.
Government schools exist to create mindless robots. Look
around; are they succeeding? See www.sepschool.org.
______
There is no subjugation so potent as that which leaves the
appearance of freedom. -- Jean Jacques Rousseau
If the state monopolizes the philosophy of its citizens, it is
not significant that it does so in the classroom rather than
in the chapel.
(1996) Moi
To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of
opinions which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
(1777) Thomas Jefferson
Whenever is found what is called a paternal government, there is found
state education. It has been discovered that the best way to insure
implicit obedience is to commence tyranny in the nursery.
(1874) Benjamin Disraeli
David Bowie
I would just like to point out that, given the number of replies this
thread got, it's obvious it struck a chord with people.
David, trying desparately to add some extra lightness to s.r.m.
--
David Bowie dbo...@mail.sas.upenn.edu
PhD student in Sociolinguistics http://babel.ling.upenn.edu/~bowie
Craig Anderson
Craig Olson <clo@%spam%netins.net> wrote in article
<5kskqr$c...@q.seanet.com>...
> > Unfortunately, I like neither "How Great Thou Art" nor "I Believe
> > in Christ," which seem to be among the "Top 40" that someone else
> > has mentioned.
>
> I happen to really like "HGTA", but I can understand it has a limited
> appeal. I think I like it, in part, because we finally got around to
> recognizing that there are hymns outside of Mormon hymnody that have
> some value. It almost seemed that we got hung up on avoiding any
> hint of denominational Christian hymns that we were willing to forget
> that that's exactly the origin of many of the hymns many members see
> as "Mormon".
Personally, I don't care much for HGTA. I think it's the tune more than
anything else, as the words don't bother me too much. But one of my biggest
peeves about this song is the blasted _frequency_ with which it is sung in
the meetings! It's as though we as a church are trying to make up for 150
years of not singing it, by singing it over and over and over and over and
..
Sometimes it seems like we sing this song a minimum of once a month!
Another song which is sung far too often is "Because I Have Been Given
Much." Sheesh.
And a song I have _never_ liked much is "There Is Sunshine In My Soul
Today". This song is a particularly bad one here in Seattle because it
seems we sing this one each and every time the sun is shining on Sunday
(which admittedly, isn't all _that_ often <g>; but it's a though we can
only celebrate the nice weather by repeatedly singing this particular
song).
Sigh.
Craig (whose ward sang _both_ HGTA and HISIMST last Sunday; I sat quiet
through both of them <g>)
Grant O'Neil
Guy R. Briggs wrote:
> |> The Baritone adds color and completeness to the chord. When
> |> singing an LDS hymn, he takes the Alto part. You can never
> |> quite hear a good barbershop Baritone, but the chord sounds
> |> lifeless without him. He should be seen, but not heard - which
> |> is why he is generally the best-looking of the four.
> |
> | This has certainly been my experience.
> |
It surely can't be coincidence that all we LDS barbershoppers are
baritones - or at least claim to be. Guess there are really only two
kinds of barbershop singers - baritones, and those who wish they were...
Now for a question I have wondered for a long time and not known anyone
who could give me the answer - can anyone (hint - SPEBSQSA members) tell
me of anywhere I could get copies of barbershop arrangements of LDS
hymns? In the chorus I used to sing with we had arrangements of
"classics" such are Battle Hymn of the Republic, but I would dearly love
to get barbershop arrangements of some of the LDS classics such as
"Spirit of God" or "We Thank Thee, Oh God for a Prophet". After some of
our recent discussion, I figure that if there's nobody on this newsgroup
who knows the answer, there is probably nothing available.
BTW, last Tuesday evening we in Perth had the privelege of a visit from
Pres Hinckley. Considering htis was the first time ever that the
president of the church has visited Perth, it was quite a red-letter
day. Being in the front row of the choir gave me the advantage of
sitting about 12 feet from him, although it had the disadvantage that I
only got to see the back of his head when he spoke. As for the
conference itself - nothing earthshattering, no startling new
revelations; just the choice opportunity to feel the sweet spirit of the
prophet and an apostle (Elder Eyring) "in the flesh" instead of on a
video screen.
--
_ .
Grant O'Neil _r| Ll\
Former member | |_|__\
Men In Harmony Barbershop Chorus => \ |_|_ /
Australian Association of ~~ `_'
Male Barbershop Singers (AAMBS) v
pone...@alpha2.curtin.edu.au
http://student.curtin.edu.au/~poneilgdo/
Marc A. Schindler
[Moderator's Note: Could you guys sort of nudge this thread back to
mostly Mormon stuff? Thanks.]
ri...@webcom.com (Rich Wales) wrote:
>"Marc A. Schindler" <msc...@spam-off.connect.ab.ca> wrote:
>
> they compromised, by leaving in the U.S. national
> anthem, O Say Can You See, . . .
>
>Despite the old hymnal's slavish use of the first line of every hymn as
>the title, the one and only correct title of the US national anthem is
>"The Star-Spangled Banner".
Of course...thanks for the correction; and you were right in
your surmise that it was because of the "first line" index that
I always thought of it as OSCYS.
>Thankfully, the correct title was used in the current hymnal.
>
> as well as what I consider to be the truly American
> (i.e. hemispheric) hymn, America the Beautiful, . . .
>
>When I was growing up (in California), I wondered for a long time about
>the word "forspacious" (as in, "O beautiful forspacious skies"). :-}
>
Well, "perspicacious" doesn't scan, ya see...
On the CBC Radio program "As It Happens" (which is also available
in some parts of the States) they recently had a listener phone-
in which invited listeners to report their favourite bloopers in
songs. A member I know (Mark Mitchell) from Aylmer, Quebec,
called in with one. I can't remember what it was, except that it
was a Christmas Carol. My own entry was "Jumping jackass, it's
a gas, gas, gas!" by the Rolling Stones. Well, ya gotta admit,
it rhymes better than the proper version! When I was 13 that's
what I thought it actually said. But then I also remember trying
to figure out the lyrics to Inagadadavita by Iron Butterfly.
>Rich Wales ri...@webcom.com http://www.webcom.com/richw/
>(member of the Kitchener 2nd Ward, Kitchener Ontario Stake)
>