The mark of Cain...
Owen West
list he reads.]
> Barbara wrote:
>
> Owen, I remember my brother-in-law referring to the "Mark of David" and that
> is where blacks come from...is this the part of the LDS teaching that you made
> reference too? Do Mormons allow blacks in their church?
It was called the mark of Cain, not of David. Mormons now allow all worthy males
to hold the Priesthood. All races could always attend and join the LDS church even
from beginning in 1830. Only African black male were denied the Priesthood. Here
are some quotes from LDS history to inform you on this old doctrine that is still part
of the LDS scriptures in the Book of Abraham found in the Pearl of Great Price.
Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, Vol.2, p.175
The next question: "Was Cain cursed with a black skin?" Technically the black
skin was not the curse, but the mark of the curse. The scriptures do not say that
Cain was made black, but we read that his descendants were. We may well
suppose that Cain was also black and that this was the mark the Lord placed
upon him.
President Brigham Young, answering a question put to him by Elder Lorenzo D.
Young in a meeting held December 25, 1869, in Salt Lake City, said that Joseph
Smith had declared that the Negroes were not neutral in heaven, for all the spirits
took sides, but "the posterity of Cain are black because he (Cain) committed murder.
He killed Abel and God set a mark upon his posterity. But the spirits are pure
(i.e., innocent. See D.C. 93:38.) that enter their tabernacles and there will be a
chance for the redemption of all the children of Adam, except the sons of perdition."
—J.H., Dec. 25, 1869.
Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., The Way to Perfection, p.107
It was well understood by the early elders of the Church that the mark which
was placed on Cain and which his posterity inherited was the black skin. The
Book of Moses informs us that Cain and his descendants were black. Enoch
taught the Gospel among all the people everywhere, except the people of
Canaan. The people of Canaan lived before the flood, and were descendants
of Cain. Is it not probable that Ham named his son Canaan after Cain or one
of the descendants of Cain, who gave his name to the land in which the
posterity of Cain lived before the flood?
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.109 CAIN
As a result of his rebellion, Cain was cursed and told that "the earth" would
not thereafter yield him its abundance as previously. In addition he became
the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition. As a result of his mortal
birth he is assured of a tangible body of flesh and bones in eternity, a fact
which will enable him to rule over Satan. The Lord placed on Cain a mark
of a dark skin, and he became the ancestor of the black race. (Moses 5;
Gen. 4; Teachings, p. 169.)
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.114 CASTE SYSTEM
However, in a broad general sense, caste systems have their root and
origin in the gospel itself, and when they operate according to the divine
decree, the resultant restrictions and segregation are right and proper
and have the approval of the Lord. To illustrate: Cain, Ham, and the
whole negro race have been cursed with a black skin, the mark of
Cain, so they can be identified as a caste apart, a people with whom
the other descendants of Adam should not intermarry.
I AM TOLD THAT EDITIONS OF THE BOOK "MORMON DOCTRINE"
AFTER 1977 HAVE REMOVED THIS KIND OF RACIST THOUGHT
AND COMMENTARY. THE LDS CHURCH APPEARS HARD PRESSED
TO DISTANCE ITSELF FROM THIS RELIGIOUSLY SANCTIONED
RACISM OF IT'S PAST WHICH WILL BE PRESERVED IN IT'S SCRIPTURES
UNLESS THE PEARL OF GREAT PRICE IS DROPPED, WHICH I THINK
IS VERY POSSIBLE SINCE IT WAS JUST A COLLECTION OF WORKS
THAT WERE PUT TOGETHER FOR THE SAINTS IN THE UK AND LATER
ADOPTED BY THE US.
Milton R. Hunter, Pearl of Great Price Commentary, p.140-141
Abraham 1:21–27.
The descendants of Cain and Ham could not hold the Priesthood:
Since the Lord appeared unto Cain and conversed with him many times
before Cain killed Abel, Cain must have held the Priesthood. God said
unto Cain, "For from this time forth thou shalt be the father of his [Satan's]
lies; thou shalt be called Perdition;" and the Lord cursed Cain with
severe [p.141] cursings. One of these cursings was a mark placed
upon Cain, which mark would be carried by his posterity throughout
all generations. According to the teachings of the Pearl of Great Price,
this mark was a black skin. That scripture states:
And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons
of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it were
the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place
among them.
But the greatest curse of all that came upon Cain and his descendants
was that they were "cursed as pertaining to the Priesthood," that is,
the entire lineage "could not have the right of Priesthood" (verses 26–27).
Collected Discourses, Vol.1, Wilford Woodruff, April 7, 1889
What was that mark? It was a mark of blackness. That mark rested
upon Cain and descended upon his posterity from that time until the
present. Today there are millions of the descendants of Cain, through
the lineage of Ham, in the world, and that mark of darkness still rests
upon them. Though nearly six thousand years have passed and gone,
this mark is visible to the whole human family.
(This information is taken from the LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM
by Infobase, a tool that anyone interested in what the LDS church used
to believe and teach should have!)
Owen
Hedgehog
<owen...@wans.net> wrote:
> THE LDS CHURCH APPEARS HARD PRESSED
> TO DISTANCE ITSELF FROM THIS RELIGIOUSLY SANCTIONED
> RACISM OF IT'S PAST WHICH WILL BE PRESERVED IN IT'S SCRIPTURES
> UNLESS THE PEARL OF GREAT PRICE IS DROPPED, WHICH I THINK
> IS VERY POSSIBLE SINCE IT WAS JUST A COLLECTION OF WORKS
> THAT WERE PUT TOGETHER FOR THE SAINTS IN THE UK AND LATER
> ADOPTED BY THE US.
This will probably get me into some hot water, but I have doubts about the
Pearl of Great Price and tend to feel its inclusion in the canon is one of
the marks that the LDS (Young) Church is on the wrong track.
Peace,
Hedgehog
Benjamin J. Berks
This above listed book was published before the priesthood was open to all
worthy males.
the following is a excerpt of the doctrine listed under "NEGROES"
"President Young felt it, however, to be his duty to make plain the attitude
of the Mormon people in Utah on the subject. In an address to the
legislature he said: 'The Lord said I will not kill Cain, but I will put a
mark upon him, and that mark will be seen upon the face of every Negro upon
the face of the earth; and it is the decree of God that that mark shall
remain upon the seed of Cain until the seed of Abel shall be redeemed, and
Cain shall not receive the priesthood, until the time of that redemption.
Any man having one drop of the seed of Cain in him cannot receive the
priesthood; but the day will come when all that race will be redeemed and
possess all the blessings which we now have."
Brigham Young also said, " I am opposed to the present system of slavery."
Joseph Smith taught, ". . . they came into the world salves, mentally and
physically. Change their situation with the whites, and they would be like
them. They have souls, and are subjects of salvation."
this book quoted above was published in 1960 before the 1973? revolution
stating all worthy males may hold the priesthood. But, if you read the
scriptures from the old testament, their was also a time when only one of
the 12 tribes where allowed to hold the priesthood. The other 11 tribes
were not all blacks. In fact, most biblical scholars would agree that most
where white.
David Stone
Article <7b3eqp$o33$1...@goliath.lightrealm.com>, hedg...@scripps.edu wrote:
[ quote snip ]
> This will probably get me into some hot water, but I have doubts about
> the Pearl of Great Price and tend to feel its inclusion in the canon
> is one of the marks that the LDS (Young) Church is on the wrong track.
Hedgehog, you should meet the RLDS. Many of your tendencies are
their doctrines. This is assuming by PGP you were not including
JS 2's account of his own religious work and experiences!
1. RLDS observe the letter of WoW as given.
2. They see themselves as one of many routes to God.
3. RLDS are keen on social ideas such as environmental issues, peace
and race/gender equality.
This is not a joke but a serious suggestion.
Paul Dupre
David Stone wrote in message <7bj92c$2hs$1...@goliath.lightrealm.com>...
>1. RLDS observe the letter of WoW as given.
Does "as given" mean they treat it as a loving recommendation and "not by
way of commandment"?
How do they interpret "hot drinks"? As a tea drinker, I would like to know.
These are honest questions, so don't flame me, please.
mike...@hotmail.com
-------------------------------------------------------
Paul,
The RLDS do not limit the meaning of "hot drinks" to coffee and tea. You will
find some members of their church that do avoid coffee and tea, due to the
caffeine, tannic acid, and other things foundin one or both of the beverages.
However, no personal or group censure takes place.
It is understood as a recommendation, and does not have the same weight as a
commandment.
Hope this helps.
Mike
>
>
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Hedgehog
<b3...@earthlink.net> wrote:
(quoting Brigham Young)
> Any man having one drop of the seed of Cain in him cannot receive the
> priesthood; but the day will come when all that race will be redeemed and
> possess all the blessings which we now have."
I am suspicious that the above quote represents divine revelation on the
matter for people simply do not reproduce in the fashion which Young seems
to presuppose. It is not possible for a person to somehow acquire a drop
of Negro seed form otherwise non-Negro parents. In addition, since white
women are not marked, they must be allowed the priesthood or else the mark
is meaningless. If women are to be permanently barred from the
priesthood, God made a mistake in creating a mark that passes through both
male and female lines.
In short, Young was probably simply reflecting the pervasive racism of
American society rather than the will of God.
Peace,
Hedgehog
David Stone
In Article <7bkgbm$3vk$1...@goliath.lightrealm.com>, pdu...@semicoa.com wrote:
> >1. RLDS observe the letter of WoW as given.
>
> Does "as given" mean they treat it as a loving recommendation and "not by
> way of commandment"?
RLDS treat WoW as a loving recommendation and not by way of commandment.
> How do they interpret "hot drinks"? As a tea drinker, I would like to know.
Tea & coffee but they allow more room for interpretation. If you
have a different interpretation, but it is reasonably consistent,
my *guess* is they will accept you with your interpretation.
> These are honest questions, so don't flame me, please.
Don't get many flames on soc.religion.mormon
Hedgehog
<d...@spuddy.mew.co.uk> wrote:
> Hedgehog, you should meet the RLDS.
Aren't almost all people worth meeting?
> This is not a joke but a serious suggestion.
Of course.
Peace,
Hedgehog
David Stone
Article <7c23qk$mmr$1...@goliath.lightrealm.com>, hedg...@scripps.edu wrote:
> > Hedgehog, you should meet the RLDS.
>
> Aren't almost all people worth meeting?
No.
The RLDS would give Hedgehog a worthwhile cause to defend.
RLDS seem to lead the Mormons, Nephi's white & pure and
the term Mormon for example. If I said I long for CoJCoLDS
opening its priesthood, like the RLDS, to women, are you
sure no Mormon SRM reader privately wispered Amen?