Looking for a non-partisan, unbiased look at Mormon history.
tpearl
Decker nor do I want something written by Bruce McConkie. I realize
that most books may have a biased opinion weaved into it but I would
still like anybody's honest opinion on a good balanced Mormon history.
I am Mormon but will not be offended by honest history. I have told
some of my LDS friends about what I am looking for and they begin to
turn white, stutter and warn me that I am treading in dangerous
waters. I just laugh and tell them to chill. :)
John S. Colton
>I am not looking for any kind of Mormon history book written by Ed
>Decker nor do I want something written by Bruce McConkie. I realize
>that most books may have a biased opinion weaved into it but I would
>still like anybody's honest opinion on a good balanced Mormon history.
[snip]
Two books that I've had recommended to me are:
Joseph Smith: the first Mormon, by Donna Hill
and
Brigham Young: American Moses, by Leonard Arrington
However, I haven't read them yet, so I can't recommend them myself.
FWIW I believe Hill was not LDS, but Arrington was.
John
*****
John's new usenet motto:
"A soft answer turneth away wrath:
but grievous words stir up anger." --Prov. 15:1
*****
TWK53
I'm not really up on broad, overview types of books that may be what you're
looking for. I have found that there are more books available if you look at
Mormon history episodically. For example, I just finished reading Blood of the
Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows. Around here (Salt
Lake) that may be one of your make-'em-turn-white sort of books. Yet I found it
quite balanced. Certainly the Mountain Meadows affair is something that has
been neatly tucked away for years. As far as balance goes, Will Bagley readily
acknowledges his biases will come through even though he states he tries not to
be biased. All in all, I thought it was a good read.
Also, I've recently finished We'll Find The Place: The Mormon Exodus 1846 -
1848 by Richard E. Bennett. Although he is LDS, I didn't find this book to take
on that syrupy affect toward Mormon history one often gets from LDS authors.
For example, he shows how top LDS leadership really didn't quite know where in
the West they were going. Indeed, he shows how up-in-the-air things were when
the Mormons left Nauvoo. From the "cultural" history that bounces around at
church, you'd think the Mormons knew exactly what they were doing and that they
bee-lined it straight to South Temple and Main.
Bennett also brings up the strategic challenge faced by church leadership. If
they moved West too fast, many would die and more would become disaffected. If
they moved beyond Winter Quarters and evirons too slowly, many would die and
more would become disaffected. The church was very much between a rock and a
hard place early on in the exodus. I haven't found those kinds of perspectives
in the broad overview kinds of histories.
Good Luck.
Tom
Ann Porter
Well, reading honest and unbiased church history has certainly not
built *MY* testimony. But the truth will set you free.
I like reading history in biographys. You will find a lot of good
history in Mormon Enigma - Emma Hale Smith, by Avery and Newell.
Another excellent biography is Brigham Young: American Moses, by
Leonard Arrington.
And for a superb overview of a core doctrine, Mormon Polygamy, by Van
Waggoner, is very excellent.
The first two books were written by active members; Arrington was even
church historian for a while (the only non-GA to ever hold the job,
IIRC).
Van Waggoner is not a member, and this shows in his willingness to
lend equal weight to pro- and con- sources. But that's what makes it
a balanced book, IMO.
Best,
Ann
Craig Olson
>
> I am not looking for any kind of Mormon history book written by Ed
> Decker nor do I want something written by Bruce McConkie. I realize
> that most books may have a biased opinion weaved into it but I would
> still like anybody's honest opinion on a good balanced Mormon history.
Well, two of the better unbiased books are:
Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition by Jan Shipps
and
The Mormon Experience: A History of the Latter-Day Saints by Leonard J. Arrington
Shipps is an remarkably unbiased non-Mormon, Arrington a remarkably unbiased
Mormon. Both books are well written and good reads and present a fairly neutral
view of church history and its results as reflected in today's church.
Craig
John Lemings
I just finished reading a book called "One Nation Under Gods" by Richard
Abanes. I thought it was good.
There is also of course "No Man Knows My History" by Fawn Brodie.
Also check out "Mormon America" by Richard and Joan Ostling.
Ann Porter
news:vfous1o...@news.supernews.com...
> Well, two of the better unbiased books are:
>
> Mormonism: The Story of a New Religious Tradition by Jan Shipps
>
> and
>
> The Mormon Experience: A History of the Latter-Day Saints by Leonard J.
Arrington
Haven't read Shipps yet (but DH has a birthday coming up) and I second the
vote on this Arrington book, too. Excellent book.
Best,
Ann
Jeff Needle
Brodie book are even-handed. Mormon America does a better job, but it's
hardly complete.
There's a book called "The Story of the Latter-day Saints", published by
Deseret Book, that's actually pretty good. I think it was pulled from
circulation, but copies are still available at used book stores, etc.
Jeff Shirton
news:vfqd2ho...@news.supernews.com...
> A remarkable collection. First, I think that neither the Abanes nor the
> Brodie book are even-handed. Mormon America does a better job, but it's
> hardly complete.
>
> There's a book called "The Story of the Latter-day Saints", published by
> Deseret Book, that's actually pretty good. I think it was pulled from
The poster is looking for "non-partisan" treatments, remember?
If Brodie is out, then so too is anything published by Deseret.
IMO, I don't think you'll find anything terribly "neutral". If someone
doesn't have a particular "interest" in one side or the other, then
they wouldn't have the "interest" to write or publish anything.
The best you can do, IMO, is to try to find semi-unbiased, and/or
scholarly approaches from both camps, and then compare then
to try to find commonalities, or where authoritative citations
lead.
--
Jeff Shirton jshirton at cogeco dot
ca
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"[T]he gospel is not that man can become God,
but that God became a man." -- James White
Ann Porter
news:vfqd2ho...@news.supernews.com...
> There's a book called "The Story of the Latter-day Saints", published by
> Deseret Book, that's actually pretty good. I think it was pulled from
> circulation, but copies are still available at used book stores, etc.
It's been reprinted. And it *is* pretty good, but I thought Mormon Enigma
and American Moses were much more interesting, because they tell the history
through a character. Emma and Brigham were fascinating people.
Best,
Ann
John Taber
For starters:
_Joseph Smith and the Beginnings of Mormonism_ by Richard L. Bushman.
Yes, it's a sympathetic view of the earliest days of the Church. It's
done by one of the leading American historians and so it puts
everything in a historical context. And not everything would be
cleared by Church correlation.
_A Book Of Mormons_, by Richard S. Van Wagoner and Steven C. Walker.
Brief biographical sketches of many historic figures in the church.
It lets you get to know some of these people as individuals, not just
as part of the big picture.
_Mormon Lives: A Year in the Elkton Ward_ by Susan Buhler Taber. (And
yes, she's my mother.) During 1984-1985 our bishop (Richard Bushman)
had the ward document everything that went on, and oral histories were
conducted. Mom compiled the story of the ward that year into a book,
exploring various themes and individuals. It's now out of print so I
don't know how easily you could find it.
Steven M. Probert
depending on how you define that term. I think personally it is a matter of
who you trust and who may be trying to get you to trust them. Honesty is a
word that can be tossed around and used for a variety of purposes. Your
friends who "turn white, stutter and warn" may be correct. I would think
they know you better than the average Joe on this list. In my view the
church as a whole is interested in an unbiased view because it is when we
become self-righteous and unwilling to accept correction that honesty really
suffers. Look at the Doctrine and Covenants - I think that is very
unbiased. The book is full of corrections and chastisement meant to unbias
the recipient towards a more honest life. I can think of a lot of unbiasing
that I need, never the less there are those who write either friendly or
unfriendly stances and those who feel they are unbiased for you to read.
The seminary courses seem very unbiased history. I'm impressed with their
treatment of the history of the Restoration of the church ( I taught a
course this year) and how it continually pointed out the fallibility of men
in and out of the church in an unbiased way. I was teaching these students
things that seemed to be helping them become more and more unbiased towards
truth. This is really the purpose (or should be) of religion. I wish you
well in your search.
"tpearl" <tpe...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vfnj1st...@news.supernews.com...
father of peace
>> that most books may have a biased opinion weaved into it but I would
>> still like anybody's honest opinion on a good balanced Mormon history.
'No Man Knows My History' was one of the best books I ever
read about Mormon History, because it was very clear when
the author was documenting Joseph's Life, and when she
was inserting her own opinion about what it meant.
Many LdS think of it as an anti-mormon book, but I came
away from it with a high appreciation for Joseph.
Another article I really like is David Whitmer's
'Address to All believers in Christ'. It presents a
view of what happened in Kirtland that I think is
delightfully refreshing.
Love,
Absalom
David Bowie
<snip>
: _Mormon Lives: A Year in the Elkton Ward_ by Susan Buhler Taber. (And
: yes, she's my mother.)...
Tell you mother thanks for an excellent book from me.
As much as i hate the verb, reading that book was incredibly "validating" for
me as an Eastern Mormon. Nothing specific in it that i can point to, just the
overall effect of a bunch of people dealing with similar issues and similar
situations to my own experiences and observations--and i know a couple other
Eastern Mormons who had similar reactions to it.
I wonder if Jell-O Belt Mormons would understand Eastern Mormons better from
reading the book, or if it's something you have to be in-group to pick up on.
(Incidentally, Jeanne [my wife] grew up across the river in Harford County.)
<snip>
David, who grew up an EEM but not yet ABNES
--
David Bowie http://pmpkn.net/lx
Jeanne's Two Laws of Chocolate: If there is no chocolate in the
house, there is too little; some must be purchased. If there is
chocolate in the house, there is too much; it must be consumed.
Jeff Needle
>
> The best you can do, IMO, is to try to find semi-unbiased, and/or
> scholarly approaches from both camps, and then compare then
> to try to find commonalities, or where authoritative citations
> lead.
>
>
Agreed.
I've just finished my review of Sally Denton's book. I need to find
some free web space. When I do, I'll post the review there and then
post the url here.
Jeff Needle
> and American Moses were much more interesting, because they tell the history
> through a character. Emma and Brigham were fascinating people.
>
> Best,
> Ann
These were indeed great books. Both well worth reading. I guess it
depends on what the reader is looking for. A broader overview requires
something more than the aforementioned fine books.
Thanks for the note.
Charney Hoffmann
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 04:46:52 -0000, tpearl wrote:
>
> Joseph Smith: the first Mormon, by Donna Hill
> and
> Brigham Young: American Moses, by Leonard Arrington
I've read the Arrington book, and I'd recommend it as well. For more
recent history, I would recommend D. Michael Quinn's The Mormon
Hierarchy: Extensions of Power. I think it would be fascinating, even
surprising for members of the Church, but I can't speak for those of
other religions.
Charney
moon...@xmissionz.com
> I am not looking for any kind of Mormon history book written by Ed
> Decker nor do I want something written by Bruce McConkie. I realize
> that most books may have a biased opinion weaved into it but I would
> still like anybody's honest opinion on a good balanced Mormon history.
Try "Joseph Smith, an American Prophet," by John Henry Evans.
While I'm thinking of such things, I think I could recommend a good
movie on the LDS missionary experience: "The Other Side of Heaven." Made
by the same producer as Schindler's List, no more promoting of Mormonism
than "Sound of Music" is of Catholicism, but still a great flick.
Bill
-----------------------------------------------------------------
| Nonspammers please remove the "z" from address above to reply. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Charney Hoffmann
> Brodie book are even-handed. Mormon America does a better job, but it's
> hardly complete.
> > I just finished reading a book called "One Nation Under Gods" by Richard
> > Abanes. I thought it was good.
Hmm. I don't mean disrespect, but I'd like to emphatically point out
how UN-balanced One Nation Under Gods is. Mormon America is about the
same.
For balanced history, I would stick with Jan Shipps (not LDS) and
Leonard J. Arringtion (LDS).
There are good authors who deliver lots of dirt (Todd Compton's "In
Sacred Loneliness" comes to mind). No need to read Abanes or Ostling.
Charney
JamesB
they're in the habit of recommending partisan, biased materials, and they've
been giving out awards for quite some time.
I would definitely recommend "Mormon Enigma" as a place to start (the MHA
book of the year for 1984, if I remember correctly). If you've only been
exposed to the "Deseret Book" view of Joseph and Emma, this book will be
like a splash of cold water in the face. If you enjoy the experience, it
will make a good jumping off point to explore other areas.
And why would anyone want to belong to a church that considers a
"non-partisan, unbiased look" at its history as "dangerous waters"? Also,
how can you make the assumption that you "won't be offended by honest
history", before you've even read it? Will you just assume that whatever
offends you isn't, by definition, "honest history"? Since I've started
reading more non-Deseret books, there have definitely been a few things I
wish I could un-learn.
"tpearl" <tpe...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vfnj1st...@news.supernews.com...
JamesB
inclined. It doesn't do the film any favors to mention it alongside
"Schindler's List" and "The Sound of Music". While the film is mildly
entertaining, the book is a much deeper experience.
<moon...@xmissionz.com> wrote in message
news:vg6mqa7...@news.supernews.com...
moon...@xmissionz.com
> Definitely check out the _book_ of the "Other Side of Heaven", if you're so
> inclined. It doesn't do the film any favors to mention it alongside
> "Schindler's List" and "The Sound of Music". While the film is mildly
> entertaining, the book is a much deeper experience.
By mentioning Schindler's List, I hoped to point out that this was a
major studio movie, not one of the shoestring-budget, LDS-audience-only
efforts like "Singles' Ward," or the deeply disapointing "Handcart" that
never show outside of Utah.
I didn't find the film "mildly" entertaining, myself. I was deeply
touched by it. Maybe RM's will tend to respond differently to it than
others?
The book of "The Other Side of Heaven," for anyone who wants to look
for it, is "In the Eye of the Storm," IIRC, by John H. Groberg.
Finally, I don't know how objective it is, but I hear that the 1940
film "Brigham Young" is about to see the light again for the first time in
half a century, coming out soon on DVD. It stars Dean Jagger (who later
joined the LDS church) in the title role, and (get this) Vincent Price as
Joseph Smith.
Scott
Court) playing Joseph Smith.
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0075786
Regards,
Scott
Colleen Porter
> JamesB <dvd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Definitely check out the _book_ of the "Other Side of Heaven", if you're so
> > inclined. It doesn't do the film any favors to mention it alongside
> > "Schindler's List" and "The Sound of Music". While the film is mildly
> > entertaining, the book is a much deeper experience.
>
> By mentioning Schindler's List, I hoped to point out that this was a
> major studio movie, not one of the shoestring-budget, LDS-audience-only
> efforts like "Singles' Ward," or the deeply disapointing "Handcart" that
> never show outside of Utah.
The film actually showed in the theater in my little town in Florida.
It was really crowded when we went on Monday night, too. (Most of the
university ward family home evening groups went together as an
activity.)
> I didn't find the film "mildly" entertaining, myself. I was deeply
> touched by it. Maybe RM's will tend to respond differently to it than
> others?
My husband served in Indonesia, and he was in tears. My husband
waited many months for his visa--he was stuck in Hawaii for a while,
and then went to the Philipines. When his visa finally came, they
gave him the choice to stay in the Philipines or go to Indonesia, and
despite pressure from those where he was, he figured that if the Lord
called him to Indonesia, he should go there.
> The book of "The Other Side of Heaven," for anyone who wants to look
> for it, is "In the Eye of the Storm," IIRC, by John H. Groberg.
The new paperback version is entitled TOSoH, and has pictures from the
movie on the cover. I had tried to buy it for Father's Day and it was
back-ordered, but when we were at the bookstore in Palmyra, they had a
copy.
My husband was riveted by this book, even more than the Harry Potter
book he read during the first part of our vacation. Every time the
car stopped, he had it out and was reading. And this is a guy who
reads maybe one book a year.
Colleen Kay Porter
David / Amicus
Indonesia is a Muslim country. It's death for a person to leave Islam.
Are LDS missionaries still sent there? It's a dangerous place for
Christians. The Catholics in East Timor are being butchered and the
world does nothing. GRRR!!!!
Are LDS missionaries allowed to proselytize Muslims in Indonesia and
other Muslim areas?
I understand that proselytizing Jews too is forbidden in Israel.
Brian Love
(in message <vi12m4k...@news.supernews.com>):
> By mentioning Schindler's List, I hoped to point out that this was a
> major studio movie, not one of the shoestring-budget, LDS-audience-only
> efforts like "Singles' Ward," or the deeply disapointing "Handcart" that
> never show outside of Utah.
Just a minor quibble, "Singles Ward" did show outside of Utah, but
fortunately I didn't see it and so I don't have to regret the fact that it
played in California.
For those of you who are blissfully unaware of the film, here's a link to a
review:
http://www.ericdsnider.com/view.php?mrkey=508
Wayne Doust
> By mentioning Schindler's List, I hoped to point out that this was a
>major studio movie, not one of the shoestring-budget, LDS-audience-only
>efforts like "Singles' Ward," or the deeply disapointing "Handcart" that
>never show outside of Utah.
Not to mention "Savage Journey". Which still makes me cringe to this
day. I shudder to think of the scene with Joseph and Brigham
frolicking in the wheat field.
-----
This is a test of the emergency signature system.
If this were a real test, you would be reading an amusing anecdote,
personal philosophy, or corporate disclaimer. This is just a test.
Not Important
covers (briefly) the years after "Kolipoki's" mission, including his
marriage, his family, his call as a mission president, as a Regional Rep and
as a 70/General Authority. Excellent.
"Colleen Porter" <cpo...@afn.org> wrote in message
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