FALLACY OF WWW.SUBMISSION.ORG
Shahzan Akber
My dear brothers and sisters, be aware of the website
htttp://www.submission.org. I spelled http wrong so that a link to it would
not be created. This site contains information that contradicts Islam and is
completely ridiculous. They claim things by altering verses in the Quran and
translating verses COMPLETELLY INCORRECTLY. They go so far as to even claim
that the Shahadah does not include Muhammed ur Rasullullah. What can I say,
Subhanallah. The title states that it is "Your best source for ISLAM
(SUBMISSION) on the Internet " HA!!!, That is not even close to true. If
anyone wants reliable sources, please try www.islam.org or www.islaam.com. I
just wanted to let you know. Also, verify truth for yourselfves. Thank you.
Jazak Allah.
shah_h...@hotmail.com
In article <7h3q79$j2d$1...@bolero.rahul.net>,
"Shahzan Akber" <gte...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote:
Well, the submission.org website is a site run by khalifites. But still, you
seem to me brother as someone who is very insecure about his own faith. As for
the shahada, where in the Quran does it say that Muhammed's name is in the
shahada? Are you trying the abrogate the Quranic shahada in 3:18?
Khuda Hafiz
Shah Hussein
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
WORSHP GOD
The truth always hurt. That is why submission.org hurts some people. We can
be more polite amd make political statements to please people but life is short
and there no game to play when it comes to God's message.
We ONLY need to please God FIRST and LAST.
Our site
(1) Advocates the worship of God alone. is this agaist Islam ?
(2) It presents evry issue supported by verses from the Quran , is this
against Islam ?
(3) It advocates loving and respecting the prophet Muhammed by doing like him,
following the Quran ALONE. Is this against Islam ?
(4) It uncovers the corruption that entered Islam through fabricatioins and
lies that filled the Hadiths books. Is this against God and the true Islam ?
(5) It defended Quran against lies by people like Mr. Katz. Is this against
Islam ?
http://www.submission.org/answering-islam-org.htm
(6) It uncovered the false challenge of producing "A sura Like it", see;
http://www.submission.org/challenge.html
(7) Claiming that verses are altered or translated incorrectly is ridiculous
becasue we give the reader the chance to compare four translations on our Quran
page.
http://www.submission.org/Q-browser.html
(8) We did present a long article about the two fasle verses in Sura 9 and
proved their falsehood using the same historical facts that is available to all
the Muslim scholars. In addition we included over 70 mathematical proof why
these historical accounts of these two false verses were true.
http://www.submission.org/tampering.html
(9) The Shahada of God is the first commandment of all the religions of God and
it is "There is no God except the one God". It is completely stated in the
Quran in 3:18, while the shahada of the hypocrites is stated in 63:1 when the
people insisted on adding the name fo Muhammed to it.
Islam with its shahada is older than prophet Muhammed. Did Abraham called on
Muhammed in his shahada or called ONLY on the One God ?
God described His shahada in 3:18 as the shahada of God, the angels and THOSE
WHO POSSESS KNOWLEDGE. This is the shahada that Shahzan does not like. I have
to be either nice to Shahzan and accept his suggested shahada or submit to God
Almighty and accept His Shahada. What would you do if you are in my place. ?
To read more about this shahada see,
http://www.submission.org/download-2.html#La
and also;
http://www.submission.org/true-shahada.html
In any case, we know we love and respect the prophet Muhammed more than those
who only have lip service. We respect him enough to refuse all the
misinformation and lies that filled the books written in his name after his
death. We believe that the intelligent person need to judge for his/herself.
That is what God ordered us in the Quran in 17:36 and for this reason every
intelligent person will visit
to make his/her opinion.
We do not guide anybody. God does.
Sharif
Haroon Khan
WORSHP GOD <wors...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7h5cl3$k8h$1...@bolero.rahul.net...
> Our site
> (1) Advocates the worship of God alone. is this agaist Islam ?
Unfortunately your site doesn't quite do this. The religion is to be
dedicated absolutely to God alone as per 98:5, yet you have dedicated
sections of your website to portray him as an infallible man. Plus since you
give him the title "God's messenger of the covenant" you are violating
2:285, as you are making a distinction because you give him a title, while
not giving any other messenger a title.
> (5) It defended Quran against lies by people like Mr. Katz. Is this
against
> Islam ?
This I must commend.
> (6) It uncovered the false challenge of producing "A sura Like it", see;
Well you did an awful job of presenting the challenge. You totally inflated
the Quranic miracle of 19. Plus you people are also diluting the miracle
with your childish manipulations.
> (7) Claiming that verses are altered or translated incorrectly is
ridiculous
> becasue we give the reader the chance to compare four translations on our
Quran
> page.
While Rashad's translation is not influenced by hadith and the theme is
dedicated to God alone, there are some problems. The translation doesn't
always adhere to the literal arabic, it is extremely contextual. Secondly he
inserted his name in parantheses in several verses. A translation is
supposed to be loyal to the original.
Peace
Haroon Khan
http://www.q-zone.com
mailto:Har...@q-zone.com
Dedicated to Qur'anic Studies, with no Sectarian Affiliation
Khaled....@ensigct.fr
Haroon Khan wrote:
>...
> While Rashad's translation is not influenced by hadith and the theme is
> dedicated to God alone, there are some problems. The translation doesn't
> always adhere to the literal arabic, it is extremely contextual.
I have noticed that fact.
One translation made me in trouble : It is the Word "Hanif".
In the translation it is guiven as "monotheist/monotheism" (2:135,3:67,
3:95,4:125,6:161,..) And i have a question in regard of that !
I am not very fluente in arabic but have read some where that this word
is related to 2 others word, sharing almost the same meaning (ma3na) for
differente purpose. :
1/ JaNaFa
2/ HaNaFa
3/ KHaNaFa
The (scripture) differnece between the three is a diacritique marc.
For the meaning, i have read that the three deal with : (mayl,
i3wijaj,..)
and so on.
For exemple :
- "aKHNafun" is some (mayl) in someone's speach : The Words "derive to"
the Nose when he speak.
- "aJNaF" is some (i3wijaj) in someone's foot !
For the last word (in the same source) i have read that it deals with :
- "mayl" and "inhiraf" in someones conduct.
The author (Dr Mohammed Charhrour) go further and say that in fact
Abraham was HaNiF in that he was the First to discover (21:51) that
Human (as every other earth GOD's creation) "Swings" in their (way of)
life Between some limites ("hudud") Fixed by our Creator !
Many other things can be said about the subject and the author does, but
i want to be short and enought clear (excuse my english!).
Know my question is about the validity in adherence to the literal
arabic
of that !
Thanks in advence !
Khaled
Khaled....@ensigct.fr
Alburhaan
From: Khaled....@ensigct.fr
Re: the word Hanif, describing Abraham
>I have noticed that fact. One translation made me in trouble : It is the
> Word "Hanif".In the translation it is guiven as
>monotheist/monotheism" (2:135,3:67,3:95,4:125,6:161,..) And i have a
> question in regard of that !
> [...]
> The author (Dr Mohammed Charhrour) go further and say that
> in fact Abraham was HaNiF in that he was the First to discover (21:51)
> that Human (as every other earth GOD's creation) "Swings" in their
> (way of) life Between some limites ("hudud") Fixed by our Creator
With all due respect to Dr. Chahrour and brother Khaled, I agree with Dr.
Khalifa's translation of Hanif as "monotheist" in the contextual sense. For a
non-Arab, a new comer to Arabic, or even an uneducated Arab the classical
language presents many tricky problems. People think that they can look at the
root of the word, take any derived meaning they see fit, and apply it in any
context. This is not a multiple choice exam. The Qur'an is clear in that it
explains itself for those who care to study it.
The word Hanif is definitely from the root "HNF" but that does not mean that
every derived meaning is contextualy correct wherever we find it. A person
whose foot is inverted is called "ahnaf" but it is not the same as hanif. I
don't know where Dr. Chahrour came up with this "First to discover that Human
"Swings" in their (way of) life Between some limites ("hudud") Fixed by our
Creator." But here is my take on the word, which is usually translated as
upright.
The original meaning of the word Hanif is one who is inclined to the right
state or tendency. But almost every time the Qur'an described Abraham with the
word Hanif it followed by "wa maa kaan minal mushrikeen." or "He was never one
of the idolators." The expression complements the word Hanif and explains its
true meaning. One who is not an idolator is Hanif. In English the word is
Monotheist, believing in One God.
Both prophet Muhammad and the rest of us are commanded by God to follow the
Millat of Abraham by being "Hunafa'". Where do you think the nickname Abu
Hanifa came from? He upheld the Qur'an, rejected injected hadith, and was
persecuted for it. But later they attributed a whole madh-hab to him as part of
the 4 schools of thought in the Sunni sect. Ironic! I can think of Abu Hanifa
as the father of the original Khawarij who rebelled against unfounded hadith
and sunnah and upheld only the Qur'an. I'm not sure if the Kharijites of Oman
and Tunisia today follow the same or not. It's worth investigating. Anyone who
knows more about them is welcome to e-mail me or brother Omar
<in...@q-zone.com>. We have been looking for a complete history of the
Kharijites, but it is nill so far because history is written by those who
annihilated them.
Asif Tamuri
Surah 9, Dr. Khalifa has decided to REMOVE the last 2 verses. Namely 128 and
129.
I don't know why....probably because it doesn't fit in with his ridiculous
scientific miracle of the Quran....
Asif
AltWay
wrote:
The original meaning of the word Hanif is one who is inclined to the right
state or tendency. But almost every time the Qur'an described Abraham with
the word Hanif it followed by "wa maa kaan minal mushrikeen." or "He was
never one of the idolators." The expression complements the word Hanif and
explains its true meaning. One who is not an idolator is Hanif. In English
the word is Monotheist, believing in One God.
Comment :-
I think we ought to go by the significance of words rather than their
literal meanings.
The word Hanif is being used to refer to one who is by nature (in his very
being, not just in thought) upright who does not worship or subordinate
himself (in thought, feeling, motives or actions) to any object or creature,
or anyhing lessthan Allah. It refers to :-
"Then set your purpose for religion as a man upright by nature - the nature
made by Allah in which He has made men; there is no altering (the laws of)
Allah's creation; that is the right religion, but most people do not know
tTurning to Him only, and be careful of your duty to Him and keep up prayer
and be not of those who ascribe partners to Him (polytheists), of those who
split their religion and became schismatics, every sect rejoicing in its own
tenets." 30:30-32
Also :-
"Say: As for me, my Lord has guided me unto the Straight Way, a right
religion, the faith of Abraham, the upright, for he was not of the idolaters.
Say: Verily, my worship and my sacrifice, and my living and my dying belong to
Allah, the Lord of the Worlds. He has no partner. This I am commanded, and I
am foremost of those who surrender (unto Him)" 6:162-164
There is a distinction between submitters (muslims), believers (mumins) (see
49:14) and hanifs.
H.S. Aziz
--
_ ___ _ _____________________________________________
|_| | | | | |_| \ / /
| | |_ | |/\| | | | /... Read "The Alternative Way" and "Views"
_______________________/ ... ...... on www.argonet.co.uk/education/haziz
______________________/ .............
WORSHP GOD
I guess you should know why. Something this serious should be investigated.
Have you done your home work.?
(1) Do you know that the Mathematical Miracle of the Quran can completely be
perfect without the deletion of these two verses. Many of the people,
ignorant with the miracle parrot what other people say and claim the deletion
of these two verses was to make the miracle work. FALSE.
(2) Do you know that Dr. Khalifa was not the one who claimed these two verses
are addition to the Quran, but it is written in many of the Islamic History
books 1000 of years befor Dr. Khalifa was even born.
(3) Do you know the last two verses in Sura 9 are the only two verses in the
Quran marked wrongly to be Meccan verses when they shuld have been Medina
verses if they were true.
(4) Do you know that the writers of the Quran could not find these two verses
except with one man. The rule was for the collection of the Quran, the verse
should be found with at LEAST two men. When a verse found with Omar Ibhn Al
Khattab and not with any one else it was rejected. But 9:128-129 have a story
that you should study.
and many others.
Do not get too excited. Do not parrot what others do. There is over 70 proofs
that these two verses never belonged to the Quran. See our file at;
http://www.submission.org/tampering.html
You are free to believe them or not. God made them available for you and you
make your mind on your own.
About this ridiculous scientific mathematical miracle as you call it. God
called it "One of the great miracles in 74:35 (7+4+3+5=),. so who cares how you
see it.
http://www.submission.org/miracle/
Pharaoh laughed at Moses miracle and called it names like you did, but God
Almighty called it "CLEAR PROOF". When you see it laughable or ridiculous it
was not meant for you, and God knows best WHY?!
Sharif
Khaled....@ensigct.fr
> The word Hanif is being used to refer to one who is by nature (in his very
> being, not just in thought) upright who does not worship or subordinate
> himself (in thought, feeling, motives or actions) to any object or creature,
> or anyhing lessthan Allah.
Mr AltWay,
My english is not good enought to express my self easelly.
My dictionnary says about UPRIGHT :
1/ Of moral excellence
2/ Erect in posture
And really i do not found "Wajhu chabah" between this meaning and the
arabic
word it is supposed to translate "Hanif".
The second thing i want to ask you is if the tafassir had not guiven
this
meaning wich is close to yours, would you ritch this conclusion about
it's
significance in the Quran ?
> "Then set your purpose for religion as a man upright by nature - the nature
> made by Allah in which He has made men; there is no altering (the laws of)
> Allah's creation; that is the right religion, but most people do not know
> tTurning to Him only, and be careful of your duty to Him and keep up prayer
> and be not of those who ascribe partners to Him (polytheists), of those who
> split their religion and became schismatics, every sect rejoicing in its own
> tenets." 30:30-32
In this verse Mr AltWay, Your interpretation "obliged" you to add [(the
laws of)]
and you know that in the Arabic text there is nothing of this.
Dr Chahrur explanation tally exactelly with the verse without adding
any (human) words.
Human [MEN] are created like this; they are simply "Hanif" by Nature
from
their Mother's (Batn?). And no One can change That.
And you no enought the Human nature that it can NOT Upright and Strait
by
Nature !
They do mistakes, they forgot, they loose concentration, they grow up,
they change (evolve), they...and so on. And do not forget that God is
talking about (Annass) MEN and that HE tell us there is no altering of
that.
Mr AltWay; if MEN were UPRIGHT By nature do you think that God need
to send Us some Warner and Messager to Show us HIS "Huddud". If
We Go (by nature) Strait It will never happen that we Derive to
some BORSERS (Hudud).
Some concepts are PRIMORDIAL to study in the BOOK of God:
- The Straits Path (attariku al_mustakim)
- The "Hanafa"
- The BORDERS or LIMITS (Al-Hudud)
> "Say: As for me, my Lord has guided me unto the Straight Way, a right
> religion, the faith of Abraham, the upright, for he was not of the idolaters.
> Say: Verily, my worship and my sacrifice, and my living and my dying belong to
> Allah, the Lord of the Worlds. He has no partner. This I am commanded, and I
> am foremost of those who surrender (unto Him)" 6:162-164
> There is a distinction between submitters (muslims), believers (mumins) (see
> 49:14) and hanifs.
I will Add if you permit :
between also : (mutaqi), (imam al-mutaqin), and others you will find
it interesting to Know If you Wonder to read Dr ChaHrur Book !
Khaled
Khaled....@ensigct.fr
>
> Subject: Re: FALLACY OF WWW.SUBMISSION.ORG
> From: Khaled....@ensigct.fr
>
> Re: the word Hanif, describing Abraham
>
> >I have noticed that fact. One translation made me in trouble : It is the
> > Word "Hanif".In the translation it is guiven as
> >monotheist/monotheism" (2:135,3:67,3:95,4:125,6:161,..) And i have a
> > question in regard of that !
> > [...]
> > The author (Dr Mohammed Charhrour) go further and say that
> > in fact Abraham was HaNiF in that he was the First to discover (21:51)
> > that Human (as every other earth GOD's creation) "Swings" in their
> > (way of) life Between some limites ("hudud") Fixed by our Creator
>
> With all due respect to Dr. Chahrour and brother Khaled, I agree with Dr.
> Khalifa's translation of Hanif as "monotheist" in the contextual sense.
That's your complete right Mr Alburhaan.
To agree or not agree with a humanbeing opinion is in our freedom and
responsability accorded by God.
> For a
> non-Arab, a new comer to Arabic, or even an uneducated Arab the classical
> language presents many tricky problems.
I Agree mainlly. But at a certain point. Knowing the rules of
construction of
the language is not easy but Arabic language make sens.
For instance the basic and essential rule is :
"Al_Kalamu Khidmun lil_ma3na"
> People think that they can look at the
> root of the word, take any derived meaning they see fit, and apply it in any
> context.
I don't Know too much about this kind of people.
I know just that in Arabic as almost all human language :
"A Word is created to represent a specific and unique "Ma3na".
After that people use it to "mean" or cover other purpose. So One
word can and Have in fact many "meaning" with the newer known as
"Majazi" !
The more important here as Al_Jurjani said in his book "Al_Khassaiss" is
It is not possible to a Word to get or guive a Better meanning as
another
One which was PUT(Wudhi3at) for that specific purpose.
More shortelly that means that the "Mutaradifat" concept is false.
And so this MUST be taken into account When reading the BOOK.
Wich was writen in a language "Mubiin" and you know i guess from
wich Assl came this word and what it means.
> This is not a multiple choice exam. The Qur'an is clear in that it
> explains itself for those who care to study it.
>
> The word Hanif is definitely from the root "HNF" but that does not mean that
> every derived meaning is contextualy correct wherever we find it.
For this point you should search to understand the two Words :
Rattil and Atlu.
It surelly help !
> A person
> whose foot is inverted is called "ahnaf" but it is not the same as hanif.
Correct and No I nor Dr Chahrur sais That.
> I
> don't know where Dr. Chahrour came up with this "First to discover that Human
> "Swings" in their (way of) life Between some limites ("hudud") Fixed by our
> Creator."
>From The Book Through reading it with that gift of God :
His "Qalb" = His Brain !
> But here is my take on the word, which is usually translated as
> upright.
>
> The original meaning of the word Hanif is one who is inclined to the right
> state or tendency.
Wich reference please ?
> But almost every time the Qur'an described Abraham with the
> word Hanif it followed by "wa maa kaan minal mushrikeen." or "He was never one
> of the idolators."
Agree Totally !
> The expression complements the word Hanif and explains its
> true meaning.
Agree Totally for the first part more or less with the second.
> One who is not an idolator is Hanif. In English the word is
> Monotheist, believing in One God.
>
According to the Arabic grammar I do not agree with you.
The sentence(s) would better say :
He is Hanif BUT not an idolator,
would less support your :
He is not an idolator ===> He is Hanif.
You guive a translation : Monotheiste. I wonder if you could
tell me if there is another word in arabic wich hold this meaning.
> Both prophet Muhammad and the rest of us are commanded by God to follow the
> Millat of Abraham by being "Hunafa'".
We are not JUST commanded brother borhaan God created us with this
"Milla".
It is in that, We virtually and From our birth (even we knew no thing !)
we are AT this FITRA.
> I'm not sure if the Kharijites of Oman
> and Tunisia today follow the same or not. It's worth investigating. Anyone who
> knows more about them is welcome to e-mail me or brother Omar
> <in...@q-zone.com>. We have been looking for a complete history of the
> Kharijites, but it is nill so far because history is written by those who
> annihilated them.
I don't know About tunisian khawaridj maybe you mean todays Algeria ?!
For instance a very famous region in Algeria in the desert "Wadi Mizab",
is a place where 7 senven Town are composed from descendant of Rustumide
Dynasty and are actually said following "Ibadhi" madhhab !
You can search about them. They have very famous scholar and mufassir
until today. If i got some valuable information or if you have
a specifique question, ask. I am Algerian, may be i can Help.
Khaled
AltWay
My dictionnary says about UPRIGHT :
1/ Of moral excellence
2/ Erect in posture
And really i do not found "Wajhu chabah" between this meaning and the
arabic word it is supposed to translate "Hanif".
Comment :-
I do not take the meaning of Quranic words from the dictionary (not even
English dictionaries), but from the way it is usd in the Quran.
Khaled :-
The second thing i want to ask you is if the tafassir had not guiven
this meaning wich is close to yours, would you ritch this conclusion about
it's significance in the Quran ?
Comment :-
What tafassir are you speaking about? The meaning of Hanif is clear enough
from comparing Quranic verses. But yes, I am not a Quran-only person and do
accept explanations given by the Prophet (saw) or other authorities who have
knowledge.
Khaled :-
Re :- "Then set your purpose for religion as a man upright by nature - the
nature made by Allah in which He has made men; there is no altering (the
laws of) Allah's creation;
In this verse Mr AltWay, Your interpretation "obliged" you to add (the
laws of) and you know that in the Arabic text there is nothing of this.
Comment :-
The words in brackets indicate that they are not in the text of the Quran,
but because this is an English translation where the Arabic words cannot be
exactly translated, these words are put in to bring out the meaning.
However, if you think the English translation by someone is sacrosanct you
can ignore the words in bracket.
Khaled :-
Human [MEN] are created like this; they are simply "Hanif" by Nature
from their Mother's (Batn?). And no One can change That.
And you no enought the Human nature that it can NOT Upright and Strait
by Nature !
They do mistakes, they forgot, they loose concentration, they grow up,
they change (evolve), they...and so on. And do not forget that God is
talking about (Annass) MEN and that HE tell us there is no altering of
that.
Mr AltWay; if MEN were UPRIGHT By nature do you think that God need
to send Us some Warner and Messager to Show us HIS "Huddud". If
We Go (by nature) Strait It will never happen that we Derive to
some BORSERS (Hudud).
Comment :-
You have obviously not been reading my articles or you have not understood
them.
Human beings have certainly degenerated or Fallen. But as Quran 95:4-6 tells
us, not all have Fallen. Some like Abraham are upright. The Prophets were
sent to show us the Straight Way to make us upright again.
As indicated in article 41 ( Views of Islam) there are three aspects or
stages - al-islam, al-iman and al-ihsan ( or Shariat, Tariqat and Haqiqat),
and there are therefore, three kinds of persons :-
the submitters, the believers and the upright (muslims, mumins and hanifs).
regarding submitters read 49:14; regarding believers read 9:111;
regarding the upright read 30:30
Note :- It is generally a good idea that when a person makes a comment or
criticism of something, that he first studies and understand that about which
he is making comments or criticisms.
H.S.Aziz
Khaled....@ensigct.fr
> 1/ Of moral excellence
> 2/ Erect in posture
> And really i do not found "Wajhu chabah" between this meaning and the
> arabic word it is supposed to translate "Hanif".
I do not take the meaning of Quranic words from the dictionary (not
even
English dictionaries), but from the way it is usd in the Quran.
(Khaled)
It is a good practice to concider the way it is used in "the Book".
But i think that before that, Adherence to the arabic "Lissan" is
fondamental.
When reading some ones "Ta'will" i have found that forgetting this
condition and building our "Idjtihad" on JUST the context of the
verse can led to curious result.
> Khaled :-
> The second thing i want to ask you is if the tafassir had not guiven
> this meaning wich is close to yours, would you ritch this conclusion about
> it's significance in the Quran ?
>
AltWay Comment :-
What tafassir are you speaking about? The meaning of Hanif is clear
enough
from comparing Quranic verses. But yes, I am not a Quran-only person
and do
accept explanations given by the Prophet (saw) or other authorities who
have
knowledge.
(Khaled)
For instance i have "safwatu atafassir".
My question has no thing to deal with quran-Only or any other thing !?
Nor
i said that you must forget any other authorities who have knowledge.
My question was clear, and i considere even if i belive that "Al-Quranu
Hamalu
awjuh", that to say that Hanif is "Upright" is questionnable.
I considere (and correct me if i am wrong) that a "Upright" person IS
(among
other thing) NOT a "mushrik". And when i read this two "MustalaH"
folowing
each other at any time in the Quran, I think that Dr Mohammed Chahrur
"Ta'will"
make more sense.
> Khaled :-
> Re :- "Then set your purpose for religion as a man upright by nature - the
> nature made by Allah in which He has made men; there is no altering (the
> laws of) Allah's creation;
> In this verse Mr AltWay, Your interpretation "obliged" you to add (the
> laws of) and you know that in the Arabic text there is nothing of this.
AltWay Comment :-
The words in brackets indicate that they are not in the text of the
Quran,
but because this is an English translation where the Arabic words
cannot be
exactly translated, these words are put in to bring out the meaning.
However, if you think the English translation by someone is sacrosanct
you
can ignore the words in bracket.
(Khaled)
For me only one "Dhikr" is "sacrosanct".
I wonder if you had said :
"..these words are put in to bring out the meaning Mr AltWay found"
For me it's an evidence but you know that many english spoken muslim can
not access the arabic text to see that :
"...there is no altering of Allah's creation"
>
> Khaled :-
> Human [MEN] are created like this; they are simply "Hanif" by Nature
> from their Mother's (Batn?). And no One can change That.
> And you no enought the Human nature that it can NOT Upright and Strait
> by Nature !
> They do mistakes, they forgot, they loose concentration, they grow up,
> they change (evolve), they...and so on. And do not forget that God is
> talking about (Annass) MEN and that HE tell us there is no altering of
> that.
> Mr AltWay; if MEN were UPRIGHT By nature do you think that God need
> to send Us some Warner and Messager to Show us HIS "Huddud". If
> We Go (by nature) Strait It will never happen that we Derive to
> some BORSERS (Hudud).
>
Comment :-
You have obviously not been reading my articles or you have not
understood
them.
(Khaled) No i have not read all your articles.
Human beings have certainly degenerated or Fallen. But as Quran 95:4-6
tells
us, not all have Fallen. Some like Abraham are upright. The Prophets
were
sent to show us the Straight Way to make us upright again.
As indicated in article 41 ( Views of Islam) there are three aspects or
stages - al-islam, al-iman and al-ihsan ( or Shariat, Tariqat and
Haqiqat),
and there are therefore, three kinds of persons :-
the submitters, the believers and the upright (muslims, mumins and
hanifs).
regarding submitters read 49:14; regarding believers read 9:111;
regarding the upright read 30:30
Note :- It is generally a good idea that when a person makes a comment
or
criticism of something, that he first studies and understand that about
which
he is making comments or criticisms.
(Khaled) Agree totally Mr Aziz.
Just remember that I was commenting Rashad Khalifa translation when i
spok
about Hanif.
You were the person who comment Dr Chahrur View in the question
(And Thanks for that).
So Mr Aziz, Have you Read Dr Chahrur Book ?
> H.S.Aziz
Salam
Khaled