Muslim women's marriage with Christians/Jews

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NNOOR

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Apr 21, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/21/99
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Asslam-o-Alaykum,

It is very clearly stated in the Holy Quran that marriage
with "mushriq"s (non-believers) is not permitted for both
Muslim men and women. But what about marriage with the
"people of book" (i.e. Jews & Christians)? I have read
in the Holy Quran explicit permition of such marriages for
men. But I couldn't find any explicit or implicit prohibition
in the Holy Quran from such marriages for Muslim women.
The popular belief among Muslims appears to be that Muslim
women can only marry Muslim men. Period. What is basis of
such? I am interested in knowing the source of such rulings
and not such traditional common sense based arguments along
the lines "since women are weak and easily impressionable...."

Thanks for your help!

Regards,
Nasir Ahmed (nn...@cris.com)


Abdalla Alothman

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Apr 22, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/22/99
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Dear brother, salam alikum.

NNOOR wrote:

> Asslam-o-Alaykum,
>
> It is very clearly stated in the Holy Quran that marriage
> with "mushriq"s (non-believers) is not permitted for both
> Muslim men and women. But what about marriage with the
> "people of book" (i.e. Jews & Christians)? I

"Say: O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! You have nothing
(as regards guidance) till you act according to the Taurat (Torah), the
Injeel (Gospel), and what has (now) been sent down to you from your Lord
(the Qur'an). Verily, that which has been sent down to you from your Lord
increases in many of them their obstinate rebellion and disbelief. So be not
sorrowful over the people who disbelieve." [Quran, 5:68]

As you know, according to our Quran the Jews hold a book that
they have changed, same applies for the Christians. So, there goes
two conditions. The third condition to categorize Ahl Al-Kitab as believers
becomes true when they follow the Quran. And they sure aren't following
the Quran.


Salam,
Abdalla.


jk...@math.gatech.edu

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Apr 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/23/99
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In article <7fn9f3$pkd$1...@waltz.rahul.net>,
Abdalla Alothman <ada...@blueskyweb.com> writes:

> As you know, according to our Quran the Jews hold a book that
> they have changed, same applies for the Christians.

According to the Qur'an? Where does the Qur'an say that
the Christians have changed their book(s)?

This would be new to me.

All verses of the Qur'an regarding the Jewish and Christian
scriptures are carefully listed and discussed at

http://answering-islam.org/Hahn/integrity.html

if you would like to investigate them and understand the
whole picture as the Qur'an gives it.

Best regards,

Jochen Katz

Fahad Jasem

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Apr 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/24/99
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>Muslim men and women. But what about marriage with the
>"people of book" (i.e. Jews & Christians)? I have read
>in the Holy Quran explicit permition of such marriages for
>men.

I think that this verse from the Quran explicitly permits marriage with the
people of the book:

5:5 (Almaida, aya 5)
"This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of
the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them.
(Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are believers,
but chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time,-
when ye give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor
secret intrigues if any one rejects faith, fruitless is his work, and in the
Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual
good)."

another translation is
" This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who
have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for
them. And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women
of those who received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) when ye give
them their marriage portions and live with them in honour, not in
fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines. Whoso denieth the faith,
his work is vain and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter. "

So it is clear that Muslims are allowed marriage with women from the people
of the book. Note that the Aya does not say that it is required for the
people of the book to be believers. Instead, the Aya makes a clear
distinction for the case of the believers and for the case of the people of
the book.

Assalam Alaikum


Abdalla Alothman

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Apr 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/24/99
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Salam Alikum.

jk...@math.gatech.edu wrote:

> According to the Qur'an? Where does the Qur'an say that
> the Christians have changed their book(s)?

Doesn't your Books say that Jesus (as) is God's begotten
son, God is three in one, and that Jesus was crucified?
If your Books don't say that, then from where did the
Christians come up with these beliefs? Do you have something
we don't know?

"And they say: The Most Beneficent has begotten a son.
Indeed you have brought forth (said) a terrible evil accusation.
Whereby the heavens are about to be torn, and the earth is split
asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins. That they ascribe a son
to the Most Beneficent." [Quran 19:88-91]

That doesn't sound like fun to me.

> This would be new to me.

Sure, that's why the Quran came with tons of warnings
for the ones who associated Jesus with God and divided
God (astaghfirullah) into three pieces.

We've seen some examples in the Old Testament where
God speaks; why doesn't He speak entirely in the New Testament?
Are the books of Matthew, Luke, John, and Mark revealed from God?
How come they start with: according to <saint name>?

I'm sorry, but we believe that the Injeel is God's word, not words
*authored* by saints.

"Verily, We have inspired you (O Muhammad SAW) as We inspired
Noah and the Prophets after him; We (also) inspired Ibrahim (Abraham),
Isma'il (Ishmael), Iss-haq (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob), and Al=ADAsbat [the t=
welve
sons
of Jacob], 'Iesa (Jesus), Ayub (Job), Yunus (Jonah), Harun (Aaron), and S=
ulaiman

(Solomon), and to Dawud (David) We gave the Zabur." [Quran 4:163]

See I'm sorry, I don't see Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, or any other
saint.

"O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Why do you mix truth
with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?" [Quran 3:71]

Once you mix falsehood with truth, you wont end up with something
you can confidently call God's words anymore. That's only my humble
opinion.

It would be generous of you to give me an input on what I've
wrote. Please don't refer me to your web site, it would be nice
if you can copy and paste what you have to say into your message.


Salam,
Abdalla.


Mahmu...@aol.com

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Apr 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/25/99
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Abdalla Alothman <ada...@blueskyweb.com>
posting of 24 Apr 1999 seems me evasive. Jochen Katz' question

>> ... Where does the Qur'an say that


>> the Christians have changed their book(s)?

cannot be answered in a circular manner like

>Doesn't your Books say that Jesus (as) is God's begotten
>son, God is three in one, and that Jesus was crucified?

It must be answered plainly: Nowhere does the Qur'an say that Jews or
Christians have changed their books! It's merely a theological theory. As far
as I know, it is a theory of medieval ulamas. Whether this theory is right or
not should be a matter of diligent scholarship.

Peace,
Mahmud K. Taha


Jochen Katz

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Apr 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/26/99
to
In article <7fu58f$t7a$1...@waltz.rahul.net>,
Abdalla Alothman <ada...@blueskyweb.com> writes:

> > According to the Qur'an? Where does the Qur'an say that


> > the Christians have changed their book(s)?
>

> Doesn't your Books say that ...

I did not ask you what my book says, I asked you to substantiate
where the Qur'an says what you claimed it says, namely that the
Christians changed their book.

> Jesus (as) is God's begotten
> son, God is three in one, and that Jesus was crucified?

> If your Books don't say that, then from where did the
> Christians come up with these beliefs? Do you have something
> we don't know?

The question of discussion was not the interpretation of our
book, but the question what the Qur'an actually says. You have
not answered to this issue.

> "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Why do you mix truth
> with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?" [Quran 3:71]
>
> Once you mix falsehood with truth, you wont end up with something
> you can confidently call God's words anymore. That's only my humble
> opinion.

Just read SRI. There is a lot of mixing of truth and falsehood
done by Muslims. And many Muslims accusing other Muslims of
falsehood. Does that mean that you don't have God's words
anymore?

If that doesn't mean this in the Muslim context, why would this
be the conclusion in the Christian context? Yes, there is a lot
of nonsense and falsehood that has been claimed by people who
identify themselves as Christians, just as a lot of nonsense
and falsehood is spread by those who call themselves Muslim.

So what?

Since when does this constitute changing of the text of the
Qur'an or the Word of God as found in the Bible?

> It would be generous of you to give me an input on what I've
> wrote.

I hope this input was in some way helpful.

> Please don't refer me to your web site, it would be nice
> if you can copy and paste what you have to say into your message.

Whenever I have already written a certain argument on the site,
I refer to it, because I hate waste. And I find it a great annoyance
when people post and repost the same articles on the newsgroups
which I have already read elsewhere. Over time, this is a waste of
terabytes of disk space on dejanews and elsewhere that the same stuff
that is already available on the web has to be stored again and again
because people repost it again and again or are not willing to go
and read.

In case people are really interested in an argument or an opinion,
then I assume they take the minimal effort of visiting a web page.
And you are at all times welcome to cut and paste the part from
the web page that you want to respond to. I am willing to discuss
my site here, if you want to. But I don't want to repost the stuff
here over and over again. Maybe that is a different style from what
you like, but that is my style currently.

Anyway. I hope the above did address some of what you said, even
though you did not respond at all to the question I asked.

Best regards,

Jochen Katz


Abdalla Alothman

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Apr 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/27/99
to
Salam Alikum.


Mahmu...@aol.com wrote:

> Abdalla Alothman <ada...@blueskyweb.com>
> posting of 24 Apr 1999 seems me evasive. Jochen Katz' question
>

> >> ... Where does the Qur'an say that


> >> the Christians have changed their book(s)?
>

> cannot be answered in a circular manner like

You're right, it requires basic logic.

"It is He Who has sent down to you the Book (this Qur'an).
In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations
of the Book, and others not entirely clear...." [Quran 3:7]

"Do they not then think deeply in the Qur'an, or are their
hearts locked up?" [Quran 47:24]

> >Doesn't your Books say that Jesus (as) is God's begotten


> >son, God is three in one, and that Jesus was crucified?
>

> It must be answered plainly: Nowhere does the Qur'an say that Jews or
> Christians have changed their books! It's merely a theological theory.

> As far as I know, it is a theory of medieval ulamas. Whether this theor=
y


> is right or not should be a matter of diligent scholarship.

I see. So, the Quran doesn't say that the Christians changed
their books. Okay, you're right. Then I guess Allah (swt)
revealed to them the secret which we don't have: Jesus is God's
begotten son.

Dear friend, when the creed is corrupted there is no need
for exquisite clarity. We don't need anyone to tell us the name
of an apple every time we see it. It would be tedious to call
a scholar for such tasks, IMHO. :)

"So because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and
made their hearts grow hard. They change the words from their (right)
places and have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent
to them. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a
few of them. But forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds). Verily,
Allah loves Al=ADMuhsinun. And from those who call themselves Christians,
We took their covenant, but they have abandoned a good part of the
Message that was sent to them. So We planted amongst them enmity
and hatred till the Day of Resurrection, and Allah will inform them
of what they used to do." [Quran 5:13-14]

"Look how they invent a lie against Allah, and enough is that
as a manifest sin." [Quran 4:50]

The previous arguments still stand, where did the Christians come
up with their beliefs? Would Allah (swt) say Jesus was God's begotten
Son? Would Allah (swt) say Jesus was crucified and killed? Would Allah
(swt) say that he is really not one, but three in one? Do we really need
more clarity than this? Isn't it enough that Allah (swt) condemns their
beliefs? I've been looking for an answer, and insha'Allah you might help
me find one.

"Let the people of the Injeel (Gospel) judge by what Allah has revealed
therein. And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed (then)
such (people) are the Fasiqun (the rebellious)."
[Quran 5:47] (Keyword: therein)

Dear friend, if we take the Bible to be compatible with what Allah (swt)
considers ''therein'' then we'll have to say that Jesus is God's begotten
son. I think the verse quoted earlier clearly shows how Allah (swt) repli=
es
to this single argument by itself.

"In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that
God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live
through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved
us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."
[The Bible--KJV 1 John 4:9-10]

If the verses above have been revealed by Allah (swt), then there
must be something wrong with the Quran or the Bible. Someone has to
make a choice. I would be extremely delighted to know that Allah (swt)
considers anyone who has beliefs equivalent to the verses above
as heaven's pioneer.


Salam,
Abdalla.

Dr. M S M Saifullah

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Apr 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/27/99
to
jk...@math.gatech.edu writes:

Asslamu-alaikum wa rahamatullahi wa barakatuhu:

>All verses of the Qur'an regarding the Jewish and Christian
>scriptures are carefully listed and discussed at
>
>http://answering-islam.org/Hahn/integrity.html
>
>if you would like to investigate them and understand the
>whole picture as the Qur'an gives it.

It is very interesting that the Christian missionaries who do not believe
in the Qur'an being the word of God suddenly starts to use it to show the
integrity of the Bible. Now what happens when we investigate the integrity
of the Bible using the historical of the Biblical text? Well one can see it
at:

http://salam.muslimsonline.com/~islamawe/Bible/Text/

Check in particular the different number of books in the Bibles of

Protestant Church
Roman Catholic Church
Anglican Church
Greek Orthodox Church
Coptic Church
Ethiopic Church
Syriac Church

It is located at:

http://salam.muslimsonline.com/~islamawe/Bible/Text/BibleTex.html

That will tell you how good is the integrity of the Bible from the
Christian sources. So, one does not need to go for the blessings of the
Qur'an to show how coherent in the book called the Bible. And only those
who have something to hide will do it.

Finally, a point concerning the tafsir literature needs to made. It is a
well known fact that the Isra'iliyyat material (i.e., the material from the
scriptures of the People of the Book) is considered to be *inauthentic* in
the use of Qur'anic exegesis. That actually shows the status of past
scriptures from the point of view of Muslims.

The Qur'an itself states it status in

And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming
whatever Scripture was before it, *and a watcher over it*. So judge between
them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away
>from the truth which hath come unto thee. For each We have appointed a
divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you
one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He
hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah
ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ.
[Qur'an 5:48]

The word muhaymin (as used in the above verse) in Arabic means
"Guardian/watcher/protector." In other words, it is the job of the Qur'an
to separate the wheat from the chaff in the earlier revelations. The Qur'an
confirms the earlier revelations in their original form. If the earlier
revelations were not corrupted then why is the Qur'an a watcher over it or
more importantly who would the Qur'an exegetes consider not including the
material from earlier scriptures?

And Allah knows best!

--

Dr. M S M Saifullah NTT Basic Research Laboratories
'Islamic Awareness' http://salam.muslimsonline.com/~islamawe/


Abdalla Alothman

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
to
Salam Alikum.

Jochen Katz wrote:

> I did not ask you what my book says, I asked you to substantiate

> where the Qur'an says what you claimed it says, namely that the
> Christians changed their book.

It clearly says so through condemning the beliefs found
in the Bible. Please check your own Bibles, you don't even
have a standard version. Every 15-20 years a new version
is out deleting or adding a new concept.

I assume you already know about that, right? If I condemn
a test paper, does that mean I like it? Does that mean it
has what I expect it to have?

The Jews were directly referred to as people who changed
their books. But, note their creed hasn't changed--they still
worship one God who has no begotten sons or sub-gods.

The Christians however, burden the heavens, the earth, and
the mountains when they ascribe a son/sub-god to Allah (swt).
The question is that whether they obtained their beliefs from their
Book or not. Did they, or did they not? It's a simple question,
can you answer it directly or not?

Do we need a clear reference from the Quran stating that you
changed your Book when Allah (swt) clearly states that He has
no begotten sons, he is not three in one, that there is no such thing
as the original sin, and that Jesus was not killed nor crucified. Isn't
that enough? I'm sorry, but our God doesn't sell candy in the Quran.
A direct condemnation to the beliefs found in your Books--and which
form the foundation of your religion--is more than sufficient. The Quran
is not only a yes/no Scripture.

Dear friend, Allah (swt) gives us a clear example related to the
Jews when the were ordered to kill a cow. They did not take God's
command and apply it, instead, they asked for it's color, then they
asked for more and more descriptions until their mission became
more complicated every time they asked for clarifications. That's
a lesson for us.

> Just read SRI. There is a lot of mixing of truth and falsehood
> done by Muslims. And many Muslims accusing other Muslims of
> falsehood. Does that mean that you don't have God's words
> anymore?

My friend, the Muslims--with all there sects--adhere to one God.
They worship Allah, their holy book is the Quran. On the other
hand, Christians do not have the same creed. Some say God is
three in one, some say not. Some say Jesus is God's begotten son,
some say it's only metaphorical. We have sects in Islam, but we know
Who we are worshipping. All Muslims agree that there is no God but
Allah. Ask a Muslim child to recite Sourat Al-Ikhlas, and he'll do so
and explain it to you with ease. On the contrary, try to explain to a
non-Christian kid the Trinity and see how torturing it would be.

Among the Christian sects, none have the same creed. All have
different beliefs and different views about God. Not to mention
the different Bible versions.

Insha'Allah you will enlighten me more with your kind explanations.


Salam,
Abdalla.

Jochen Katz

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
to
In article <7g3rgp$hn2$1...@waltz.rahul.net>,
"Dr. M S M Saifullah" <sa...@aecl.ntt.co.jp> writes:

> >All verses of the Qur'an regarding the Jewish and Christian
> >scriptures are carefully listed and discussed at
> >
> >http://answering-islam.org/Hahn/integrity.html
> >
> >if you would like to investigate them and understand the
> >whole picture as the Qur'an gives it.
>
> It is very interesting that the Christian missionaries who do not believe
> in the Qur'an being the word of God suddenly starts to use it to show the
> integrity of the Bible.

I have explained that many times to you, but you won't listen. We
do NOT appeal to the Qur'an for showing the integrity of the Bible.
When we talk to atheists we will not mention the Qur'an at all. It
is not part of the objective evidence for the Bible.

My response was ONLY given in answer to a Muslim who claimed that
the Qur'an says that the Christians have corrupted the scriptures.
And that is not true. The Qur'an does NOT say it, in the contrary,
the Qur'an upholds the integrity of the Christian scriptures.

If you are not a Muslim, this argument is of now value, but if
you presuppose the authority of the Qur'an, then you are bound
to believe it and you better believe what it say, and not some
distorted propaganda that has told you something that is not true
about your own book.

I have responded to this very accusation several times, but you
don't seem to be interested to interact with what I actually say,
you are not dialoging, you only seek an occasion "unload" your
own propaganda in an ever churning monolog.

After this "excuse" of responding about an issue of the Qur'an,
to make the posting relevant gives you now the opportunity to
introduce some Bible bashing again...

> Now what happens when we investigate the integrity
> of the Bible using the historical of the Biblical text? Well one can see it
> at:

This fallacious response is getting so old now, that we should
maybe give it a own name? For example, erroneous saifullahnicus?

A discussion of the integrity of the Bible from NON-Quranic
sources will NOT give an answer to the issue raised. The issue
was whether the Qur'an speaks of the scriptures of the Christians
as authentic or as corrupted. And the above web page address makes
it quite clear to any honest investigator, that the Qur'an upholds
the integrity of the Christian scriptures.

And you know the Qur'an does so. That is the reason that you never
answered to this issue in discussion our evidence, but turn to
other avenues to attack the Bible, harvesting the atheist writings
for it. But this is a change of topic and I am not going to follow
you into this discussion for the easy reason, that if I do so,
my response will be deemed irrelevant to the Islamic newsgroup
soc.religion.islam as you well know. Attacking the Bible is
Islamically relevant. Discussing and defending it is not relevant.
In time, you will find answers to your writings on our website.
Answers are in the making at this time.

> The Qur'an itself states it status in
>
> And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming
> whatever Scripture was before it, *and a watcher over it*. So judge between
> them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away
> >from the truth which hath come unto thee. For each We have appointed a
> divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you
> one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He
> hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah
> ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ.
> [Qur'an 5:48]
>
> The word muhaymin (as used in the above verse) in Arabic means
> "Guardian/watcher/protector." In other words, it is the job of the Qur'an
> to separate the wheat from the chaff in the earlier revelations. The Qur'an
> confirms the earlier revelations in their original form. If the earlier
> revelations were not corrupted then why is the Qur'an a watcher over it or
> more importantly who would the Qur'an exegetes consider not including the
> material from earlier scriptures?

This is clever but wrong. (Probably) Dr. Badawi invented this meaning
for this word, but it does not hold up when carefully researched.
An answer is in progress and will be posted on the web in about
2 weeks time.

Best regards,

Jochen Katz


Jochen Katz

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
to
May the peace of the Lord be with you all.
Thank you very much for your response.

In article <7g6kis$acm$1...@waltz.rahul.net>,
Abdalla Alothman <ada...@blueskyweb.com> writes:

> > I did not ask you what my book says, I asked you to substantiate
> > where the Qur'an says what you claimed it says, namely that the
> > Christians changed their book.
>
> It clearly says so through condemning the beliefs found
> in the Bible.

I have not found many beliefs from the Bible condemned
by the Qur'an.

> Please check your own Bibles, you don't even
> have a standard version. Every 15-20 years a new version
> is out deleting or adding a new concept.

This is silly and does not merity more than a link for
a response:

http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Versions/

after you have dealt with the Qur'an versions, you are welcome
to raise the topic again. Okay, specific question. What new
concept has been added by the NASB (edition 1995) over against
the NASB (edition 1975) or, to make it a really different
translation, over against the NIV (1971). Please be specific
and give evidence for your accusations that you may not be
found a blower of hot hair without substance.

> I assume you already know about that, right?

Right, I already know most of the Muslim polemics. That doesn't
mean I accept the claims.

> If I condemn
> a test paper, does that mean I like it? Does that mean it
> has what I expect it to have?

The Bible is not a test paper, but the Word of God. On the
other hand, the authority of the Qur'an to sit in judgment
over the word of God is yet to be established.

> The Jews were directly referred to as people who changed
> their books. But, note their creed hasn't changed--they still
> worship one God who has no begotten sons or sub-gods.

There is some accusation, but it does NOT imply that the
Jewish scriptures are changed, not in Muhammad's time nor
today. You clearly show that you have NOT read the reference
I gave you where this is discussed in great detail:

http://answering-islam.org/Hahn/integrity.html

Please do yourself the favor of reading arguments before
you speak out against them.

> The Christians however, burden the heavens, the earth, and
> the mountains when they ascribe a son/sub-god to Allah (swt).

Have you ever heard a mountain complain? I haven't. Maybe
such burdening never took place?

> The question is that whether they obtained their beliefs from their
> Book or not. Did they, or did they not? It's a simple question,
> can you answer it directly or not?

Yes, the Christians (usually, at least the better informed ones)
derive their beliefs from the Bible. I certainly do so.

> Do we need a clear reference from the Quran stating that you
> changed your Book when Allah (swt) clearly states that He has
> no begotten sons, he is not three in one, that there is no such thing
> as the original sin, and that Jesus was not killed nor crucified. Isn't
> that enough?

No, it is not. For the following reason. The Qur'an is not
just silent on this matter (it does not only not accuse the
Christians of changing their books) it positively supports
the integrity of these books.

When then, those true books contradict the Qur'an in content,
who is in trouble?

The Qur'an says: These books are true revelation.
The Qur'an contradicts itself the content of those books.
The Qur'an just committed a logical contradiction.
The Qur'an is inconsistent. The Qur'an is in trouble.

Clear?

I agree, the Bible and the Qur'an contradict each other
in MANY and in ESSENTIAL teachings. But whose problem is that?
Not mine.

> I'm sorry, but our God doesn't sell candy in the Quran.

I never claimed so.

> A direct condemnation to the beliefs found in your Books--and which
> form the foundation of your religion--is more than sufficient. The Quran
> is not only a yes/no Scripture.

Never claimed so. But I would like to hear your thoughts on the
above problem. I think your construction of condemnation doesn't
work logically.

> Dear friend, Allah (swt) gives us a clear example related to the
> Jews when the were ordered to kill a cow. They did not take God's
> command and apply it, instead, they asked for it's color, then they
> asked for more and more descriptions until their mission became
> more complicated every time they asked for clarifications. That's
> a lesson for us.

What is the lesson? Not to ask? Believe without asking why?
Believe and obey even if you can't say why you should believe
this in the first place? That is not my kind of faith.



> > Just read SRI. There is a lot of mixing of truth and falsehood
> > done by Muslims. And many Muslims accusing other Muslims of
> > falsehood. Does that mean that you don't have God's words
> > anymore?
>
> My friend, the Muslims--with all there sects--adhere to one God.

But is it the true God?

> They worship Allah, their holy book is the Quran. On the other
> hand, Christians do not have the same creed.

Really? I think pretty much all Christians adhere to the Apostolic
and the Nicean creed. It is quite detailed statment of faith.
I do not know of any similar summary of faith that is held by
all Muslims universally.

> Some say God is
> three in one, some say not. Some say Jesus is God's begotten son,
> some say it's only metaphorical. We have sects in Islam, but we know
> Who we are worshipping.

Who is it whom you are worshipping? Could you tell me more about
him than name given to this God? What do you really KNOW about
God? This is not a stupid question if you know anything about
Muslim theology.

> All Muslims agree that there is no God but
> Allah.

Christians agree that there is only one true God, creator and
sustainer of the Universe.

> Ask a Muslim child to recite Sourat Al-Ikhlas, and he'll do so
> and explain it to you with ease. On the contrary, try to explain to a
> non-Christian kid the Trinity and see how torturing it would be.

Who says that truth is always easy? In particular, the truth
about the Infinite God? Understanding his creation is very complicated.
How many can grasp the theory of quantum physics or special relativity?
Do you expect the nature of God to be more easy to understand than that
of his creation?

> Among the Christian sects, none have the same creed.

Not true. See above.

> All have
> different beliefs and different views about God.

Muslims also have different views about God.

Christians have some differing views, but they all believe
in the same God. That is not different from Muslims.

> Not to mention
> the different Bible versions.

See above.

> Insha'Allah you will enlighten me more with your kind explanations.

I hope, they will prove enlightening. May God be gracious
as you seek to understand His Truth.

Jochen Katz


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