Ahmad Deedat Paralyzed
Taji Abdur-Raheeem
As-Salaamu-alaikum,
Is it true that Ahmad Deedat was paralyzed, if so how did it happen?
Please post or e-mail me at isl...@worldnet.att.net
Saulat Pervez
Assalaamu 'Alikum wa Rahmatullah...
THE MESSAGE did mention a couple issues ago that he had a stroke
-- Siraj Wahhaj mentioned it in his interview.
But I was really surprised and actually disgusted when a couple
days ago an older, and very knowledgable brother mentioned that
the Saudis have taken him in to treat him but no communication
has been achieved with them yet. In fact, he went on to say that
the news came that he was dead, and so they prayed the salat
al-janazah, and then the next day they found out he was in fact
alive! Subhan Allah! -- I really can't believe how some of these
people function.
Anyway, the point is that because of lack of communication there
really isn't any *authentic* information available (teh above
included, I suppose) -- and so I would greatly appreciate anyone
posting whatever they know of this matter, Insha' Allah.
Jazak Allahu Khair. May Allah <swt> keep Ahmed Deedat in His
hifdh wa amaan. Ameen.
Wassalaam,
Saulat.
Dr Syed Rashid Ali
Saulat Pervez wrote:
>
> Assalaamu 'Alikum wa Rahmatullah...
>
> THE MESSAGE did mention a couple issues ago that he had a stroke
> -- Siraj Wahhaj mentioned it in his interview.
> posting whatever they know of this matter, Insha' Allah.
>
> Jazak Allahu Khair. May Allah <swt> keep Ahmed Deedat in His
> hifdh wa amaan. Ameen.
>
One of my relatives from Saudi Arabia gave me following information. I don't know how far it is correct.
Shaikh Ahmed Deedat had a stroke in South Africa. He was flown in to Riyadh Hospital at the special
instructions from King Fahd. He had suffered a cerebrovascular accident which has left with what is medically
known as a 'Locked in Syndrome'. He is paralysed from eyes down. His brain is functioning, he can move his eyes
but other wise there is dense quadriplegia.
May Allah give him quick and complete recovery.
Wassalam
Rashid
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RDortch553
When I was stationed is Saudi Arabia during the "cleanup" after Desert
Storm, I reverted to Islam. I had up until that point been marginally
Christian. I spent alot of time in the Dawah tent that had been set up on
Abdul Aziz Air FOrce Base near Dharhan. There a brother named Ali
Al-Sheri showed me Islam,thanks to the guidance of Allah (swt). One of
the many things he showed me was in the form of video-taped debates
between Deedat and Christian ministers. I am greatly saddened to hear of
Mr. Deedat's illness and wish him a speedy recovery, Insh'allah. I have a
deep and abiding respect for this man and have always wished for the
opportunity to meet with him. Please send my best wishes to him if
possible.
thank you,
Rick Dortch
****************************************************
Blood is thicker than water.....and tastier too!
Jochen Katz
[Believe it or not] I have prayed for Deedat and I seriously wish him
the best and that God will touch him and heal him. Maybe this time
when forced [by God's will no doubt] to stop and reflect while taken
out of his propaganda job, he might even see the truth? And though Deedat
has been far from God most of his life, it is never too late to repent.
In article <501mov$7...@shellx.best.com>,
rdort...@aol.com (RDortch553) writes:
| When I was stationed is Saudi Arabia during the "cleanup" after Desert
| Storm, I reverted to Islam. I had up until that point been marginally
| Christian. I spent alot of time in the Dawah tent that had been set up on
| Abdul Aziz Air FOrce Base near Dharhan. There a brother named Ali
| Al-Sheri showed me Islam,thanks to the guidance of Allah (swt). One of
| the many things he showed me was in the form of video-taped debates
| between Deedat and Christian ministers. I am greatly saddened to hear of
| Mr. Deedat's illness and wish him a speedy recovery, Insh'allah. I have a
| deep and abiding respect for this man and have always wished for the
| opportunity to meet with him. Please send my best wishes to him if
| possible.
Although Deedat is loved and admired by many Muslims, there is a substantial
number of Muslims who regard him as a plage of Islam and wish he had never
existed because of the damage he has done to Islam. Deedat has been teaching
clear heresy [from an orthodox Islamic viewpoint] and brought much ridicule
to Islam by his propaganda based on lies and misinformation. If you think
these are strong and unjust words then have a look at an ISLAMIC evaluation
of Deedat's propaganda and his sources [most of it experpts from the "Muslim
Digest" published in South Africa]:
http://www.math.gatech.edu/~jkatz/Islam/Gilchrist/deedat.html
Sorry to say this, but anybody who placed his faith in Islam on Deedat's
propaganda has been badly deceived. Both about Islam, as well as about
Christianity. If you read the above web page, you probably will have to
agree ... as much as this statement might make you [plural] angry now.
This above file was sent to me a few days ago and I could not resist
putting it up. Probably one of the few things on my web page Muslims and
Christians should be able to agree on.
| thank you,
|
| Rick Dortch
|
| ****************************************************
| Blood is thicker than water.....and tastier too!
Not exactly an "Islamic" statement either. Did you learn that from Deedat?
Blood is forbidden [to eat].
Best regards,
Jochen Katz Web Site "Christian Answers to Islam":
jk...@math.gatech.edu http://www.math.gatech.edu/~jkatz/Islam/
Jawwad
Jochen Katz <jk...@math.gatech.edu> wrote in article
<504ogl$s...@shellx.best.com>...
> [Believe it or not] I have prayed for Deedat and I seriously wish him
Then I am sure that you will be elated to know that Mr. Deedat is off the
critical list and is improving steadily. The latest that I have heard is
that he seems to have some kind of a 'nerve block'. Everything else is
working, they just need to break through this block and he will be up and
about in no time. I am sure that you will be happy to see him back on
stage, debating.
> the best and that God will touch him and heal him. Maybe this time
> when forced [by God's will no doubt] to stop and reflect while taken
> out of his propaganda job, he might even see the truth? And though Deedat
> has been far from God most of his life, it is never too late to repent.
Perhaps you should start..What Deedat has done, has been to get people to
look at both the Qur'an and the Bible, and then to decide for themselves.
That is the purpose of the debates etc.. and the reason that Christian
missionaries etc.. now are most reluctant to get on a public platform to
debate.
HQ.21:18 Nay We hurl the Truth against falsehood and it knocks out its
brain
and behold falsehood doth perish! Ah! woe be to you for the (false) things
ye ascribe (to Us).
<snip>
>
> Although Deedat is loved and admired by many Muslims, there is a
substantial
> number of Muslims who regard him as a plage of Islam and wish he had
never
> existed because of the damage he has done to Islam. Deedat has been
teaching
What damage??
> clear heresy [from an orthodox Islamic viewpoint] and brought much
ridicule
Which heresy?? Specify..
> to Islam by his propaganda based on lies and misinformation. If you think
What, based on the Bible is based on 'lies and misinformation'??
> these are strong and unjust words then have a look at an ISLAMIC
evaluation
> of Deedat's propaganda and his sources [most of it experpts from the
"Muslim
> Digest" published in South Africa]:
>
> http://www.math.gatech.edu/~jkatz/Islam/Gilchrist/deedat.html
What, not Gilchrist again?? I suppose that what you have said about Deedat
can not be applied to Gilchrist.. no ofcourse not..
How about having a look at...http://www.kuwait.net/~rws/cr-toc.htm.. this
has further information in connection with Islam and Christianity.
>
> Sorry to say this, but anybody who placed his faith in Islam on Deedat's
> propaganda has been badly deceived. Both about Islam, as well as about
Wrong. These people have had to learn and find out for themselves. Perhaps
you are looking in the wrong place for those who are deceived.
> Christianity. If you read the above web page, you probably will have to
> agree ... as much as this statement might make you [plural] angry now.
Angry?? Why...I have read some of Gilchrist's material before, and don't
agree with virtually any of it..
>
> This above file was sent to me a few days ago and I could not resist
> putting it up. Probably one of the few things on my web page Muslims and
> Christians should be able to agree on.
>
> | thank you,
> |
> | Rick Dortch
> |
> | ****************************************************
> | Blood is thicker than water.....and tastier too!
>
> Not exactly an "Islamic" statement either. Did you learn that from
Deedat?
Do you make this up as you go along??
> Blood is forbidden [to eat].
This is true in Islam also.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jochen Katz Web Site "Christian Answers to Islam":
> jk...@math.gatech.edu http://www.math.gatech.edu/~jkatz/Islam/
>
What answers??
Jawwad
Jochen Katz
In article <50fa0i$7...@shellx.best.com>,
"Jawwad" <j...@atiuk.apertus.co.uk> writes:
| Jochen Katz <jk...@math.gatech.edu> wrote in article
| <504ogl$s...@shellx.best.com>...
| > [Believe it or not] I have prayed for Deedat and I seriously wish him
|
| Then I am sure that you will be elated to know that Mr. Deedat is off the
| critical list and is improving steadily.
Did I forget to tell that God hears prayer? At least in Christianity. :)
| and he will be up and
| about in no time. I am sure that you will be happy to see him back on
| stage, debating.
We will see. No, I do not have much of a desire in such debates.
Boxing matches with whipped up emotions aren't my greatest wish.
| > Although Deedat is loved and admired by many Muslims, there is a
| substantial
| > number of Muslims who regard him as a plage of Islam and wish he had
| never
| > existed because of the damage he has done to Islam. Deedat has been
| teaching
|
| What damage??
I gave you and everybody the web address. If you don't want to read there.
That isn't my problem. You yourself recommended in another post of today a
web address with Deedat material [thanks, I bookmarked it -- and by the way,
my pages is referenced there. :) ] Anyway. This shows you are able to read
web pages. Why don't you just do so?
Here is the web address again:
http://www.math.gatech.edu/~jkatz/Gilchrist/deedat.html
| > clear heresy [from an orthodox Islamic viewpoint] and brought much
| ridicule
| Which heresy?? Specify..
Again: Please read. That is what announcements are for. But on behalf of
this specific request let me give one:
That Jesus was crucified. The Qur'an says clearly that he was not [4:157].
Ahmed Deedat propagates that he was, but did survive it.
| > to Islam by his propaganda based on lies and misinformation. If you think
| What, based on the Bible is based on 'lies and misinformation'??
Anybody who has a clear mind will see the blatant distortions of Deedat
when he touches the Bible. Again, go reading.
| What, not Gilchrist again?? I suppose that what you have said about Deedat
| can not be applied to Gilchrist.. no ofcourse not..
You don't mind reading before you reply do you? I explicitely said this
is NOT by Gilchrist.
NOT by G I L C H R I S T !!
I have only placed it in this directory because most of the rebuttals to
Deedat are by Gilchrist.
| How about having a look at...http://www.kuwait.net/~rws/cr-toc.htm.. this
| has further information in connection with Islam and Christianity.
I have been reading there often enough. And I have written an article about
this web site just a week ago. Nobody has answered to it.
| > | thank you,
| > |
| > | Rick Dortch
| > |
| > | ****************************************************
| > | Blood is thicker than water.....and tastier too!
| >
| > Not exactly an "Islamic" statement either. Did you learn that from Deedat?
|
| Do you make this up as you go along??
This was a quote from the poster I responded to.
This was not from me. File your complaint with him.
| > Blood is forbidden [to eat].
| This is true in Islam also.
That is what I said. It is forbidden in Islam. Not "also". I didn't make
any statment about anything else.
ri...@bppt.go.id
In article <50fp0j$4...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, Jochen says...
I've tried to go to that site, but failed. It said that the file
could not be found. Perhaps you forgot to put it on the correct
directory?
>Anybody who has a clear mind will see the blatant distortions of Deedat
>when he touches the Bible. Again, go reading.
Can you e-mail me the specific matter you are talking about here? I would
like to see if he said something wrong or distorted the content of the Bible
blatantly... As far as I know, the argument he used most of the times he
quoted from the Bible and tried to show that argument could not stand with
logic... Please correct me if I am wrong here...
>| What, not Gilchrist again?? I suppose that what you have said about Deedat
>| can not be applied to Gilchrist.. no ofcourse not..
>
>You don't mind reading before you reply do you? I explicitely said this
>is NOT by Gilchrist.
>
>I have only placed it in this directory because most of the rebuttals to
>Deedat are by Gilchrist.
Your site about Gilchrist is also missing there. I've heard about his books
but never read any one of them. Do you have any online?
After reading one of the articles written by M.N.Anderson on your web site,
I still have the same feeling as before towards those non-Muslim 'scholars'
who wrote something about Islam by 'cut & paste' verses from the Qur'an to
prove their point dishonestly (look at for example: Shorrosh, MacDowell,
Geisler, etc.) Anderson is the same like them all. I will try to post
my opinion about this soon...
>| How about having a look at...http://www.kuwait.net/~rws/cr-toc.htm.. this
>| has further information in connection with Islam and Christianity.
>
>I have been reading there often enough. And I have written an article about
>this web site just a week ago. Nobody has answered to it.
>
I have been absent from reading this newsgroup for quite a while... could you
please send your article to me? Thanks.
--
Ridha.
(ri...@bppt.go.id)
Jawwad
> Did I forget to tell that God hears prayer? At least in Christianity.
:)
He does?? Then how comes you are still a Christian?? How comes you still
have not found the truth??
Lets test this 'hearing your prayer' thing. I am sure you are aware of the
following verses..
Mr 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall
they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it
shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall
recover.
If you wish to teach others about your faith, you must have some faith to
start with. Have you got any??
<snip>
> We will see. No, I do not have much of a desire in such debates.
> Boxing matches with whipped up emotions aren't my greatest wish.
The fact is that in a proper debate, the Christians have always come out
second best, if even that. That is why neither you nor any other Christian
really want to get up on a public platform to debate those who have
knowledge. It is much easier to find those who know nothing of their own
faith and then to mislead them. That is why there are so many (was it about
40,000 or maybe 70,000) missionaries in the world today, just looking for
those who know nothing.
Initially it was the missionaries that used to challenge the Muslims to
debates, but when they came out second best, they all decided that these
'boxing matches' with 'whipped up emotions' were no longer to their liking.
<snip>
> | What damage??
>
> I gave you and everybody the web address. If you don't want to read
there.
> That isn't my problem. You yourself recommended in another post of today
a
It is your problem. If you are trying to prove a point, then you have to
post the information. You have also to make it short so that others will
feel inclined to read it.
> web address with Deedat material [thanks, I bookmarked it -- and by the
way,
> my pages is referenced there. :) ] Anyway. This shows you are able to
read
I have noticed.
> web pages. Why don't you just do so?
I already have. Some of it anyway. I especially like the article written by
this Dr Cambell (I think it was) about his response to Maurice Bucaille's
book (The Bible, The Qur'an and Science). He hardly addresses the book and
goes into telling everyone how great it is that Christ died for everyones
sins. I think you should post it ( in small sections) so that everyone else
can see it.
<snip>
> That Jesus was crucified. The Qur'an says clearly that he was not
[4:157].
> Ahmed Deedat propagates that he was, but did survive it.
It seems that you have not even understood what Mr Deedat says.
What is to crucify??
Even the Bible is not sure whether Christ was crucified, or whether he was
hung on a tree....Which one was it??? Is this not a contradiction??
As far as I am aware, to crucify, is to kill by being put onto a cross. If
someone is put on a cross and is not killed, then have they been
crucified??
Both the Qur'an and the Bible indicate that Christ was not killed on the
cross.
<snip>
> Anybody who has a clear mind will see the blatant distortions of Deedat
> when he touches the Bible. Again, go reading.
I have read, so post these distortions here..
<snip>
> You don't mind reading before you reply do you? I explicitely said this
Reading before replying?? Why would anyone want to do that??
Perhaps you should set the standard by starting to do so.
> is NOT by Gilchrist.
>
> NOT by G I L C H R I S T !!
What is not by Gilchrist?? You mean the book written by Gilchrist is not
even written by him??
<snip>
> | How about having a look at...http://www.kuwait.net/~rws/cr-toc.htm..
this
> | has further information in connection with Islam and Christianity.
>
> I have been reading there often enough. And I have written an article
about
> this web site just a week ago. Nobody has answered to it.
Which article?? Post it in small portions and I am sure you will have many
takers.
<snip>
> | > | Blood is thicker than water.....and tastier too!
> | >
> | > Not exactly an "Islamic" statement either. Did you learn that from
Deedat?
> |
> | Do you make this up as you go along??
>
> This was a quote from the poster I responded to.
> This was not from me. File your complaint with him.
Did you not just say something about reading before replying!!
Perhaps you should read more carefully..The above was in response to the
'Did you..
from Deedat?', not to the blood bit.
<snip>
za...@pc.jaring.my
<snips>
> Sorry to say this, but anybody who placed his faith in Islam on Deedat's propaganda
> has been badly deceived. Both about Islam, as well as about
> Christianity. If you read the above web page, you probably will have to
> agree ... as much as this statement might make you [plural] angry now.
Whoa there! What....you mean I've been deceived by this man, Deedat,
all this time?
Coz I returned to Islam after istening to one of his lectures on tape,
something about Hinduism and Islam back in 1991. He "made" me re-read
the Qur'an since I wanted to verify whether what he said was true or
false. I found that his quotes were accurate, and Alhamdu lillah, my
heart was opened by Allah' s Will to return to His true Deen.
Mr. Deedat said quite a lot of things that made sense to me about
Islam on that tape, and I just went on from there. I started listening
to most of his other tapes (about Christianity, Bible, Crucifixion and
such) and read the parts in the Bible that he quoted too, just to
verify whether he was lying or not. I found that he got the verses
right there again; although it was much tougher for me to verify the
Bible verses because there are so many versions floating around, some
of which contain a particular verse while others do not, or say
something else.
So I don't understand the logic here. This man is accused of deceiving
people because he quoted exactly from the Qur'an and exactly from the
Bible?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jochen Katz Web Site "Christian Answers to Islam":
> jk...@math.gatech.edu http://www.math.gatech.edu/~jkatz/Islam/
Zaharuddin Fikri
RDortch553
Jochen Katz wrote,
And though Deedat
>has been far from God most of his life, it is never too late to repent.
What qualifies you to judge whether or not Mr. Deedat "has been far from
God most of his life"? This is a bold statement you make. Only God knows
whether or not Mr. Deedat right or wrong.
>Although Deedat is loved and admired by many Muslims, there is a
substantial
>number of Muslims who regard him as a plage of Islam and wish he had
never
>existed because of the damage he has done to Islam.
I personally don't know of any damage that Mr. Deedat has done to the
cause of Islam.
>Deedat has been teaching clear heresy
>Sorry to say this, but anybody who placed his faith in Islam on Deedat's
>propaganda has been badly deceived. Both about Islam, as well as about
>Christianity. If you read the above web page, you probably will have to
>agree ... as much as this statement might make you [plural] angry now.
Have you viewed any of Mr. Deedat's debates? I was NOT a Muslim when I
first viewed them as a matter of fact I was a Christian! Through reading
Quran and Hadith and analysing Biblical scripture (based upon it's own
merits) and watching
Mr. Deedat make every Christian preacher he debated with backpedal and
sweat and stutter and stammer. All the while making his point using
Biblical passages.
I think that perhaps you may be a tad bit jealous of Mr. Deedat's
knowledge and understanding of the Bible!
>| ****************************************************
>| Blood is thicker than water.....and tastier too!
>Not exactly an "Islamic" statement either. Did you learn that from
Deedat?
>Blood is forbidden [to eat].
Are you so incredibly ignorant not to realize that this "tagline" is meant
as a joke?
I use it for my tagline because I do alot of genealogical research. Don't
make it something it is not. Oh... I'm sorry I forgot you were a
Christian. Many of them do that alot. Make things into something they're
not, that is. Take Jesus for example...
May Allah guide you to the truth.
L8TRZ!!!
Rick
****************************************************
ghen...@khan.u-net.com
>-->Jochen Katz wrote,
>-->
>-->And though Deedat
>-->>has been far from God most of his life, it is never too late to repent.
In other words he wasn't a Christian? Repent? from what? Telling the
truth? Or for spilling the hidden beans?
It's amazing that the truth is soo painfull for Christians to endure.
Why do you attack Deedat for the endless contradictions and
absurdities in your Bible? He is merely pointing out those items in
YOUR Bible which you wish to be kept quiet! After all Christianity is
based on 'one liners' from the Bible taken completely out of context!
You slander the man because you cannot even come near his arguments
(from your own Bible!). Typical missionary behaviour!
GAbdulrahm
Mr Jochen Katz I'm sure there is a place for you in Islam. Muslims are
doing very little Dawah work , and not a single day goes by someone
declaring shahada.
AbdulraHman Lomax
as-salamu 'alaykum.
ghen...@khan.u-net.com wrote:
>>-->Jochen Katz wrote,
>>-->And though Deedat
>>-->>has been far from God most of his life, it is never too late to repent.
>In other words he wasn't a Christian? Repent? from what? Telling the
>truth? Or for spilling the hidden beans?
How about insulting that which is not to be insulted?
>It's amazing that the truth is soo painfull for Christians to endure.
It is not Islam to pour over the scriptures held sacred by others,
searching for flaws. If one reads with a hostile eye, one may find
flaws even in the Qur'an; though these flaws are actually only in the
eye of the beholder, this merely proves that a hostile reading is
unreliable. There are many Muslims who dislike what Deedat has done,
so, though I would certainly not agree with every aspect of Jochen's
objections, nevertheless what he said is not utterly without merit.
What he said is true, and it is true for most of us. As to the
details, as to precisely how far from Allah has been and for how much
of his life he has been that way, this is better known to Allah.
Deedat, by the way, enthusiastically published Rashad Khalifa's work
on the 19 in the Qur'an, citing it as proof that the Qur'an was
perfect. When Khalifa began to claim that he was a Messenger, Deedat
stopped making these claims, but he never issued, as far as I have
seen, a retraction of what he had published; in fact, we do not know
if he ever took the trouble to verify (or, later, disprove) what he
had promoted.
I think Deedat did Islam a service by having the courage to stand up
and debate with Christians, but he also made mistakes, and some
serious ones, and we should be careful of defending what cannot or
should not be defended. Our Prophet, SAS, did not travel about
lecturing on the alleged lies and indecencies of the Torah and the
Injil or their contemporary descendants; rather, he showed nothing but
respect for these scriptures, though, presumably, he did not read
them.
AbdulraHman Lomax
mar...@ioa.com
P.O. Box 25133
Asheville, NC 28813
The Flying Scotsman
On 7 Sep 1996, AbdulraHman Lomax wrote:
assalamu-alaikum:
> I think Deedat did Islam a service by having the courage to stand up
> and debate with Christians, but he also made mistakes, and some
> serious ones, and we should be careful of defending what cannot or
> should not be defended. Our Prophet, SAS, did not travel about
> lecturing on the alleged lies and indecencies of the Torah and the
> Injil or their contemporary descendants; rather, he showed nothing but
> respect for these scriptures, though, presumably, he did not read
> them.
i do agree with br. lomax on this issue. we know that we are not perfect
and no scholar is perfect for that matter. like the prophet (saw), we
should not go about slandering the works of the muslim scholars. this has
been a recent trend in the newsgroup to criticize and belittle scholars
like ibn tahmiyyah and prove that he is not as-salaf. firstly, it should
be understood that scholars have been praised and criticized for their
work. ibn tahmiyyah has done some very monumental work in islam and there
are not many scholars who can match his depth and understanding of the
quraan and sunnah. during his time, it is said that he was considered as
the "encylopedia". does any of us has got the knowledge like that of ibn
tahmiyyah?
it is also known that he was criticized for his work, but as i said before
no scholar is perfect. look for his good works and leave the one which
are not. there is a hadith which says that if a scholar gives a right
judgement from his knowledge he gets two rewards and if he commits a
mistake he gets one. if he commits a mistake knowing the truth he sins.
so, stop criticizing and belittling scholars.
jazakum-allah-khairan
saifullah
ghen...@khan.u-net.com
On 7 Sep 1996 03:50:31 GMT, mar...@gate.ioa.com (AbdulraHman Lomax)
wrote:
>-->How about insulting that which is not to be insulted?
Insulting? If someone finds the truth to be "insulting" then that is
their problem. I assume that you found it insulting!
Unless there are fabrications put forth by mr Deedat, what exactly in
the scriptures is insulting? To date I have always seen that his
quotations are accurate - No fabrications!
>-->It is not Islam to pour over the scriptures held sacred by others,
>-->searching for flaws. If one reads with a hostile eye, one may find
>-->flaws even in the Qur'an; though these flaws are actually only in the
>-->eye of the beholder, this merely proves that a hostile reading is
>-->unreliable.
Really? Then how are we supposed to judge them? How do you define a
"hostile" reading? Should it be a 'friendly' reading? How do you
arrive at the truth otherwise? Any scripture that claims to be from
God will surely stand up to any "hostile" scrutiny?
>-->There are many Muslims who dislike what Deedat has done,
Oh yes? Are you their spokesperson? Who are the "many"?
Exactly WHAT has mr Deedat done? enlighten us!
>-->Deedat, by the way, enthusiastically published Rashad Khalifa's work
>-->on the 19 in the Qur'an, citing it as proof that the Qur'an was
>-->perfect.
I have no knowledge of this but I assume from your bringing this up
that you are a khalifist? If so then your post is put into
perspective.
>-->I think Deedat did Islam a service by having the courage to stand up
>-->and debate with Christians, but he also made mistakes,
Everyone makes mistakes!
>--> and some serious ones,
Please enlighten!
>-->and we should be careful of defending what cannot or
>-->should not be defended.
It depends on what exactly you are referring to?
>-->Our Prophet, SAS, did not travel about
>-->lecturing on the alleged lies and indecencies of the Torah and the
>-->Injil or their contemporary descendants;
When you say "alleged" lies - I take it that you consider them to be
truths! If so then why don't you accept the relevent faiths?
>-->rather, he showed nothing but
>-->respect for these scriptures, though, presumably, he did not read
>-->them.
Indeed we Muslims should respect these faiths but it does not mean we
should accept them! To accept them they must PROVE to us their divine
origin! They should withstand "hostile" scrutiny!
Does not the Qur'an invite ANY scrutiny?
When Allah (SWT) invites us to ponder the fact that the Qur'an is
discrepancy free does he not by the same statement invite us to
compare it with other scriptures that claim to be from God?
Without "hostile" scrutiny - how are we to know the difference?
(my opinions only!)
Regards
**********************************************************************
Say: (O Muhammed) He is Allah
The One and Only;
Allah, the eternal absolute;
He begets not,
Nor is He begotten,
And there is none
Unto like Him.
(Sura Ikhlas) Holy Qur'an 112:1-4
**********************************************************************
Jochen Katz
In article <50upvd$2...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>,
ghen...@khan.u-net.com writes [in response to Mr. Lomax]:
| >-->How about insulting that which is not to be insulted?
|
| Insulting? If someone finds the truth to be "insulting" then that is
| their problem. I assume that you found it insulting!
| Unless there are fabrications put forth by mr Deedat, what exactly in
| the scriptures is insulting? To date I have always seen that his
| quotations are accurate - No fabrications!
Well, seems you haven't even read the piece I sent to the newsgroup then.
Yes, he quotes "accurate" but only half of it to create an impression which
is actually wrong. And that is usually called deception.
But I am glad that you don't think the truth should ever be insulting.
| >-->There are many Muslims who dislike what Deedat has done,
|
| Oh yes? Are you their spokesperson? Who are the "many"?
| Exactly WHAT has mr Deedat done? enlighten us!
You reall have to insist that it is posted? You have absolutely
NO interest to read it on the web page announced several times already?
Okay then. It is coming in the next article I am sending off.
| >-->Deedat, by the way, enthusiastically published Rashad Khalifa's work
| >-->on the 19 in the Qur'an, citing it as proof that the Qur'an was
| >-->perfect.
|
| I have no knowledge of this but I assume from your bringing this up
| that you are a khalifist? If so then your post is put into
| perspective.
Outch.
No further comment necessary to anybody who has READ in this newsgroup
[with understanding what was read].
ghen...@khan.u-net.com
On 9 Sep 1996 14:18:18 GMT, Jochen Katz <jk...@math.gatech.edu> wrote:
>-->Well, seems you haven't even read the piece I sent to the newsgroup then.
>-->Yes, he quotes "accurate" but only half of it to create an impression which
>-->is actually wrong. And that is usually called deception.
Well it seems YOU haven't read my response - Nothing less than the
whole Bible quoted cover to cover would suffice for YOU and even if
that were done - You would then complain about the "VERSION" of the
Bible quoted from - Heads you win, Tails we lose!
>-->You reall have to insist that it is posted? You have absolutely
>-->NO interest to read it on the web page announced several times already?
What posted? Christian missionary propaganda from j katz? Did I ask
YOU?
Ps I hate to break your bubble but a Web page maintained by a
christian missionary whose sole purpose in life is to slander Islam to
the best of his ability, Who advertises in his posts for people to
"compile" fictitious errors in the Qur'an and to post them him - is
Hardly one where you can expect Muslims to flock to!
We get enough of that drivel posted on the Islamic newsgroups by you!
>-->Okay then. It is coming in the next article I am sending off.
Oh NO!! Have mercy! :)
>-->Outch.
Is that Ouch with a german accent? :)
Jawwad
AbdulraHman Lomax <mar...@gate.ioa.com> wrote in article
<snip>
> Deedat, by the way, enthusiastically published Rashad Khalifa's work
> on the 19 in the Qur'an, citing it as proof that the Qur'an was
> perfect. When Khalifa began to claim that he was a Messenger, Deedat
> stopped making these claims, but he never issued, as far as I have
> seen, a retraction of what he had published; in fact, we do not know
> if he ever took the trouble to verify (or, later, disprove) what he
> had promoted.
I saw in one of Mr Deedats video's, someone actually put basically the same
question to Mr Deedat. He said that the IPCI had withdrawn the booklet, the
video etc.. and that he had challenged Mr Khalifa to a public debate (at
IPCI expense). Mr Deedat said that he would prove that Mr Khalifa was a
false Prophet etc.. in public, if Mr Khalifa would get onto a public
platform. I believe that this has not happened to date.
<snip>
Salaams
Jawwad
ad...@rapid.fi.uib.no
Assalamu alaikum,
To mr. Ghengis khan : there is verse in the Quran where Allah (swt) commanding
muslims to refrain from insulting or attacking other people's believes so that
they do not do the same to muslims.
Allah (swt) said in His Holy Book (Quran) that your differences (between
muslims, christians and jews) would be settled by Allah (swt) in the day of
judgement.
Mr. Deedat is a very respected knowledgeable man, BUT he is still an "ordinary"
man. His way of attacking other people's believes is unacceptable.It is probably
repulsing more people than inviting to Islam.
Even if many christians attack Islam, we don't need to imitate them in their
mistakes.
Islam attract people through its divine message AND through the example of
muslims, not through some defamatory and offending methods.
ghen...@khan.u-net.com
On 12 Sep 1996 14:18:30 -0700, ad...@rapid.fi.uib.no wrote:
>-->
>-->
>-->Assalamu alaikum,
>-->
>-->To mr. Ghengis khan : there is verse in the Quran where Allah (swt) commanding
>-->muslims to refrain from insulting or attacking other people's believes so that
>-->they do not do the same to muslims.
When you refer to "attacking" I assume you mean that the Christian
faith is not to be referred to at all, after all if a contradiction in
their Bible is pointed out they will be "insulted" as you put it.
Please dear
brother explain EXACTLY what you mean by "attacking"? After all
Allah (SWT) does invite us to ask the Christians to bring us the proof
of their claims if they are truthfull! AND SURELY if they bring their
proofs (The Bible) we are required to examine their proofs and point
out to them (from their own proofs) the error of their ways! IF NOT
then why bother to look at these proofs? and why ask for them? By the
same token the Christian has a chance to prove to us the truth in his
position or else be rejected! The Qur'an also invites the same
treatment to itself, but has always passed the examination! THAT is
why the Christians have to resort to deliberate tactics to slander
Islam with deliberate disinformation. Muslims do NOT!
I ask you - If we Muslims say that Jesus (pbuh) was NO God! - are we
insulting Christianity? If we point out from the Christians own book
the proofs of his being a mere mortal - are we insulting Christianity?
If we say Allah (SWT) is ONE not THREE - are we insulting or attacking
Christianity? The answer is NO! Maybe the Christians find it
derogatory but it is our faith. It is our faith that the Bible is NOT
the genuine word of God! regardless of how "insulted" the Christian
may be.
Ps. Does not Allah (SWT) describe the Christian notion of a "begotten
son" MONSTROUS! Is THAT insulting to Christians? Is THAT attacking
the Christian faith?
Surely if Allah (SWT) describes such notions as Monstrous then we
should describe them in no less terms?
Islam is the religion of TRUTH! regardless of who it may 'upset'!
>-->Allah (swt) said in His Holy Book (Quran) that your differences (between
>-->muslims, christians and jews) would be settled by Allah (swt) in the day of
>-->judgement.
True! - but what is your point? Are you implying that we should not
define or debate our differences until then?
>-->Mr. Deedat is a very respected knowledgeable man, BUT he is still an "ordinary"
>-->man.
Really? I always thought he was supernatural. :-) I stand
corrected!
>--> His way of attacking other people's believes is unacceptable.
Read above!
>-->It is probably
>-->repulsing more people than inviting to Islam.
I take it that you are one of the "repulsed"? Or are you merely
putting forward the Christian propaganda that you heard?
>-->Even if many christians attack Islam, we don't need to imitate them in their
>-->mistakes.
We don't!
>-->muslims, not through some defamatory and offending methods.
Please be specific as to what EXACTLY you are referring to?
Regards
AbdulraHman Lomax
as-salamu 'alaykum.
"Jawwad" <j...@atiuk.apertus.co.uk> wrote:
>I saw in one of Mr Deedats video's, someone actually put basically the same
>question to Mr Deedat. He said that the IPCI had withdrawn the booklet, the
>video etc.. and that he had challenged Mr Khalifa to a public debate (at
>IPCI expense). Mr Deedat said that he would prove that Mr Khalifa was a
>false Prophet etc.. in public, if Mr Khalifa would get onto a public
>platform. I believe that this has not happened to date.
It would be kinda difficult, what with Deedat in the hospital and
Khalifa quite dead for about six years. Anyway, long after the booklet
was "withdrawn," it was still available from various sources, and what
was said above does not really speak to the issue: after all, Khalifa
did *not* claim to be a prophet. The point is that Deedat confirmed
the "miracle" of the 19, then simply stopped talking about it. I can
fully understand why the Khalifites think that this was hypocritical
of him. It would have been, and would be, better for him to directly
address the problem of the false miracle. May Allah allow him the time
to do that, and reward him for the best of what he has done.
AbdulraHman Lomax
mar...@ioa.com
BEAZEL TRIBE
> as-salamu 'alaykum.
>
> To respond to Mr. Deedat being paralyzed...there is a web site that is
> committed to finding a cure for paralysis: http://www.cureparalysis.org/
--We join our efforts to create Internet access in every city, as we feel that
Wisdom will come to those who ask Allah, the Merciful.
Vince & Vann Beazel
NEIGHBOR___LINK
Tehachapi, CA/USA
http://www.tminet.com/~vbeazel/bzlspac.html
805.822.1235