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Ibn Kathir on wife beating & 4:34

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SILAS778

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Aug 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/8/00

Ibn Kathir on Islamic wife beating.

For the past two months or so, we've discussed Islamic wife beating. I've
enjoyed my discussions with Omar, GH Haddad, Drice, and others. My
understanding of Islamic wife beating has broadened as I've read the various
opinions and excerpts.

Recently, I've come across Ibn Kathir's Commentary (Tafseer) on 4:34. Based
upon my understanding of Islamic wife beating, I'd say that he does an
excellent job. I was pleasantly surprised to see how much I agreed with his
position.

Before detailing some of his points, I want to state that through these
discussions, my understanding of Islamic wife beating has expanded in scope.
Previously, I viewed it as a specific, stand-alone, compartmentalized topic.
Now, I see it integral to the unfortunate, subserviant, position of women in
Islam.

Here are some of Kathir's points on Islamic wife beating.

1) He states that "nushuz" is made to those who show "disobedience".
Previously, some Muslims tried to make "nushuz" relate only to sexual
misconduct. Clearly, that position is incorrect. It has all to do with the
wife persistently disobeying the husband. Kathir writes, "This is because
Allah has prescribed that a wife has a duty towards her husband and she should
obey him, and that it is unlawful for her to disobey him due to his excellence.
The prophet said in this context: "If I were to order one to prostrate to
another, I would order a women to prostrate to her husband due to the greatness
of her duty towards him."

Notice Kathir's statement, "because of his excellence"? This is tied to "men
are superior to women".

2) He also states that the beating should be light. Define a "light" beating?
He cites from Muhammad's farewell address. He adds, "the husband should beat
his wife lightly, in a way which does not result in breaking of her limbs or
affecting her badly."

I totally agree with him. The beating should never break bones. "Affecting
her badly" means that she is not to be severely injured. Previously, we saw
that Muhammad allowed a woman to be slapped in the face, and another woman
bruised. Another Muslim was known to "not take the stick off his shoulder" and
as a "great beater of women". Consequently a Muslim man can strike his
disobedient wife, bruise her, and cause her pain.

3) Another interesting point: Ibn Kathir notes the Hadith in which a man
slapped his wife's face. The xlator of Ibn Kathir notes that this Hadith does
not have a "muttasil sanad". However, this does not mean that the Hadith is
false, only that the isnaad is incomplete. Obviously Ibn Kathir thought is was
true. It is the only background of 4:34 that I am aware of.

In sum, Ibn Kathir's position is basically what I've maintained all along.
Persistently disobedient, or rebellious wives are to be beaten. The beating
should not be so intense that it breaks bones or causes severe injury, but it
can be, in fact it should be, painful enough to prompt the wife to obey her
husband.

SILAS778

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Aug 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/10/00

THREE MORE VIEWS ON ISLAMIC WIFE BEATING

Since the topic of Islamic wife beating is so controversial various Muslim
writers have had to address it. Their positions vary. Those living in the
West tend to downplay or whitewash 4:34 while those Muslims from the Mideast
tend to comment on it as Muhammad intended. And, for the most part, the
earliest Muslim commentators expositions were more frank and forward.

Here are Muhammad Asad's comments on the wife beating aspects found in his
translation of the Quran.

"When the above Quran verse authorizing the beating of a refractory wife was
revealed, the is reported to have said: "I wanted on thing, but God has willed
another thing - and what God has willed must be best (see Manar V, 74). With
all this, he stipulated in his sermon on the occasion of the Farewell
Pilgrimage, shortly before his death, that the beating should be resorted to
only if the wife "has become guilty, in an obvious manner, of immoral conduct",
and that it should be done "in such a way as not to cause pain (ghayr
mubarrih)"; authentic Traditions to this effect are found in Muslim, Tirmidhi,
Abu Daud, Nasai and Ibn Majah. On the basis of these Traditions, all the
authorities stress that this beating, if resorted to at all, should be more or
less symbolic - "with a toothbrush, or some such thing" (Tabari, quoting the
views of scholars of the earliest times), or even "with a folded handkerchief"
(Razi); and some of the greatest Muslim scholars (e.g. Ash-Shafii) are of the
opinion that it is just barely permissible, and should preferable be avoided:
and they justify this opinion by the prophet's personal feelings with regard to
this problem."

Asad is a fairly recent writer. Like Yusef Ali, he wrote with a Western
readership in mind. Consequently, like Ali, he skews his translation of the
Quran to be more acceptable to the educated, moral, Western reader.

In examination, it is obvious that Asad's commentary has some problems. Asad
forces Muhammad's words from his farewell pilgrimage onto 4:34. If Asad were
truly familiar with the sources on wife beating he would know that wife beating
can be done for BOTH immoral sexual conduct and persistent disobedience.
There is no justification for forcing one context upon another.

His next error is that he translates ghayr mubarrih as "not to cause pain".
Guillaume translates it as "not severely". Again, Asad chooses the compromise.
How do you beat someone without causing them pain? The two concepts do not go
together. If I beat you, it will hurt, otherwise it is not a beating. Asad
knew this.

He then goes on to the unfounded "symbolic", "toothbrush" and "handkerchief"
comments. The Islamic sources all show that wife beating is painful and can be
done with the hand, and perhaps even a stick.

Perhaps Muhammad didn't like wife beating, but he approved of it. Remember,
he frequently got people to do his dirty work for him. So, when he had a
problem with his wives, he allowed Umar and Abu Bakr to slap their daughters.
Muhammad didn't life a hand against his wives; he had others do it for him!
Some husband huh? Obviously he didn't detest it that much.

The next set of writings on Islamic wife beating come from Fatima Mernissi's
"The Veil and the Male Elite". This is such an interesting book.

Mernissi provides us with valuable quotes from various sources. Commenting on
4:34, p155: "If we continue the reading of this verse, we realize that it
sanctifies the right of men to strike their wives in case of nushuz - that is,
rebellion against male authority: …

Here Mernissi agrees with the correct understanding of "nushuz", i.e.
persistent disobedience against the male authority.

She continues, "During a violent dispute an Ansari man slapped his wife. The
injured woman hurried to the prophet and demanded that he, as hakam (that is,
arbiter in the legal sense), apply the law of retaliation, and that he take
action on the spot. Muhammad was preparing to make his decision to fulfill her
request when the verse was revealed. God had decided otherwise. … "I wanted
one thing, and God wanted another."

Here Mernissi uses the Hadith in which the wife is slapped and her face is
marked. Obviously, it had enough validity for Mernissi to use. It is the
only story I know of that provides the background for 4:34.

And note Muslim females, if you are rebellious to your husband, Allah wants
you to be beaten.

Mernissi provides a valuable quote from Tabari on the definition of "nushuz":

"Al-nushuz means that the wife treats her husband with arrogance, refuses to
join him in the marital bed; it is an expression of disobedience [al-may'siya]
and an obvious unwillingness to any longer carry out what obedience to the
husband requires. It is a way of showing hatred [bughd] and opposition [I'rad]
to the husband."

She also comments on Muhammad not striking his wives when he was angry at
them. If Mernissi would have looked a bit closer at the Hadith of Muslim, she
would have found that, as previously noted, Muhammad allowed others to strike
his wives. Muhammad gets no points there. If anything, he loses points
because he was not man enough to do what Allah instructed Muslims to do - beat
rebellious women.

Finally, Mernissi furnishes another eloquent quote from Tabari on 4:34:

"The verse is saying that "Men are in charge of women" means that they can
discipline them, put them in their place when it comes to their duties toward
God and toward their husband, and this is because Allah has given authority to
some of you over others." The authority, he tells us, results form the sadaq
(dowry) that men pay to their wives when the marriage contract is concluded…
it is because they spend their wealth on them that men have authority over
women. but although all the experts cited agree on men's supremacy over women,
there is no unanimity on the extent of that power, particularly when it is a
question of nushuz, rebellion in the matter of sex.

Mernissi later adds that Tabari believed that "banish them to their bed" meant
to tie the woman up in the bed!

The third set of comments that bear much interest are taken from, "Reliance of
the Traveller". This book is a "Classic Manual of Islamic sacred law". Here
are some of the more accurate, detailed, and truthful comments on the subject.

"When a husband notices signs of rebelliousness in his wife (nushuz), whether
in words, as when she answers him coldly when she used to do so politely, or he
asks her to come to bed and she refuses, contrary to her usual habit; or
whether in acts, as when he finds her averse to him when she was previously
kind and cheerful), he warns her in words (without keeping from her or hitting
her, for it may be that she has an excuse. The warning could be to tell her,
""ear Allah concerning the rights you owe to me," or it could be to explain
that rebelliousness nullifies his obligation to support her and give her a turn
amongst other wives, or it could be to inform her, "Your obeying me is
religiously obligatory"). If she commits rebelliousness, he keeps from
sleeping (and having sex) with her without words, and may hit her, but not in a
way that injures her, meaning he may not (bruise her), break bones, wound her,
or cause blood to flow. (It is unlawful to strike another's face.) He may hit
her whether she is rebellious only once or whether more than once, though a
weaker opinion holds that he may hot hit her unless there is repeated
rebelliousness."

If the wife does not fulfill one of the above mentioned obligations, she is
termed "rebellious" (nashiz), and the husband takes the following steps to
correct matters:

(a) admonition and advice, by explaining the unlawfulness of rebellion, its
harmful effect on married life, and by listening to her viewpoint on the
matter;
(b) if admonition is ineffectual, he keeps from her by not sleeping in bed with
her, by which both learn the degree to which they need each other;
(c) if keeping from her is ineffectual, it is permissible for him to hit her if
he believes that hitting her will bring her back to the right path, though if
he does not think so, it is not permissible. His hitting her may not be in a
way that injures her, and is his last recourse to save the family.
(d) if the disagreement does not end after all this, each partner chooses an
arbitrator to solve the dispute by settlement, or divorce.

The only real problems this text has concerns the "bruise her" and "strike
another's face". People can bruise very easily. And, bruises occur after the
fact. We have Hadith that show that a woman was bruised, and it was acceptable
to Muhammad. We also have Hadith that show that a man slapped a woman in the
face, and no reproof was given to the man. I agree with the break no bones, no
wounds, no blood being shed rules.

In sum, we see a variety of comments on Islamic wife beating. The earliest
comments, from the Shafii school, portray the situation most accurately.
Mernissi addresses it as it existed from the commentators POV, and Asad,
wanting to provide no grounds for offence for the Western reader, tries to
whitewash it altogether. Both Mernissi and Naqub Misri works are very candid
about Islamic wife beating. They provide more of the big picture of a woman's
place in Islam, and in Islamic marriage: the woman is subjugated to the man
and must obey him.

SILAS778

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Aug 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/12/00

ISLAMIC WIFE BEATING

1) INTRODUCTION - STATUS OF THE WIFE IN ISLAM
2) THE QURAN AND ISLAMIC WIFE BEATING
3) THE HADITH ON WIFE BEATING
4) THE BIOGRAPHICAL MATERIAL ON WIFE BEATING
5) THE SCHOLARS ON WIFE BEATING
6) ADDITIONAL ISLAMIC WRITINGS ON WIFE BEATING
7) DAMAGE DUE TO WIFE BEATING
8) ISLAMIC WIFE BEATING IN AMERICA
9) ISLAMIC WIFE BEATING THROUGHOUT THE WORLD
10) QUESTIONS
11) CONCLUSION
12) WHERE TO TURN TO FOR HELP

APPENDICES
13) REVIEW OF THE WORD "BEAT"
14) REVIEW OF "NUSHUZ"
15) CRITIQUE OF MUHAMMAD ASAD'S TRANSLATION AND NOTES
16) REFERENCES

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1) INTRODUCTION - STATUS OF THE WIFE IN ISLAM

One of the more controversial issues in Islam is that of the Quran's
authorization for husbands to beat disobedient wives. This is found in chapter
4, called "Women", verse 34. Additional information on Islamic wife beating is
found in Muhammad's Traditions (Hadith), and Sira (biographical material).
Many people have criticized Islam because of this harsh sanction, and many
Muslims have written articles seeking ways to mollify or defend it. In review
of the actual teachings of the Quran, Hadith, and Sira, Islam is rightly
criticized. This command is not only a harsh way to treat one's wife, it
portrays the degraded position of married women in Islam. It will be shown
>from the Quran, Hadith, Sira, and other Islamic writings that this wife beating
is physical and painful.

Before moving on and addressing the subject of Islamic wife beating in detail,
I want to pause and emphasize a more important point. The exhortation to beat
the disobedient wife is not an aberration, oddity, disjointed concept, or stand
alone element, in Islam's positioning of females. You cannot separate the
issue of wife beating apart from the context of her position in the marriage
relationship.

The command to beat disobedient wives is found upon woman's subservient status
in Islam. To fully comprehend the issue of Islamic wife beating, her position
with respect to her husband and role as a wife must be first understood. Wife
beating is allowed because of the lower, inferior, position she occupies. A
person with a severe virus may run a high fever. While the fever can be quite
a grave problem it is actually a symptom of another sickness at work. Wife
beating is a symptom of the wife's degraded status. Beyond the right of
husbands to beat their disobedient wives, there is a deeper, more troubling,
malady at work. Wife beating is merely the bad fruit of a bad root.

Survey and examine the bigger picture of her status in the marriage
relationship. Once this element is understood the rationale behind Muhammad's
command to beat disobedient wives comes into focus and fits in its proper
place.

When I first began to study the topic, I did not realize that an Islamic
marriage is not equivalent to a Western or Christian marriage. Its rules,
roles, and requirements are quite different. The husband is the custodian of
his wife. She is considered to be in-between slave and free. The woman is
managed and controlled. The relationship between a married woman and her
husband is similar to the relationship between parents and children. Parents
have a responsible custody of their children and expect their obedience. When
children are disobedient they are disciplined and sometimes spanked.
Muhammad's viewpoint of women was that they lack self control, and thus for
their own good, and societies' good, they must be subordinate to their
husbands. They must obey. Although an adult women is more mature and capable
than a child she is not equal to a man thus she is subject to him. Islam
teaches that men are superior to women. When a man gives his bride a dowry, he
is accredited the right to manage his wife. By accepting his dowry, a women is
giving her husband the right to her regulation.

I am not saying that the wife is the husband's slave. Her status is above
that of a slave. Muhammad urged his followers to treat their wives well. He
did not want to see them beaten without cause. He wanted good marriage
relationships between husband and wife. However, his desires for happy
marriages, and kind treatment do not mitigate the authority he gave men over
women, or the position he ascribed to women. In Islamic thought, in Muhammad's
thought, the wife is not considered the husband's equal, rather, she is an
inferior, subordinate partner, who is to be treated gently and kindly, but
still under the man's authority. While the Muslim husband may love and respect
his wife and treat her with great kindness, the foundational principles of
their marriage remain. If she persists in disobedience to his wishes he has
the right, even the responsibility, to beat her, to bring her into submission
once again, and re-establish a "happy" marriage.

In this article, I am going to address the primary theme of Islamic wife
beating based upon the teachings of the Quran, Hadith, Sira, and renown Islamic
scholars. Following that I will present information on both the physical and
psychological damage women suffer as a result of being beaten. Then a review
of current wife beating in America. the Mideast, and elsewhere. Finally I pose
some questions for thought, present a short conclusion, provide places to call
for help. Following I've included 2 short reviews of key words and a review of
a Muslim's attempt to mollify Muhammad's command to beat disobedient wives.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2) THE QURAN AND ISLAMIC WIFE BEATING

I present 6 English versions of the Quran from chapter 4, called Nisa (Women),
verse 34. I provided all these not to be redundant but to show how similar the
versions are. These translations are all from recognized scholars. I have
corrected some archaic spelling. My comments are in [ ] type brackets.

TEXT FROM THE QURAN, 4:34

RODWELL: "Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God
has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from
their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the
husband's absence, because God has of them been careful. But chide those for
whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and
scourge them: but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against
them: verily, God is High, Great!"

['Refractoriness' means hard or impossible to manage, stubbornly disobedient'].

DAWOOD: "Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior
to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women
are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As
for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds
apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against
them. Surely God is high, supreme."

PICKTHALL: "Men are in charge of women, because Allah has made the one of them
to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support
of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah
has guarded. As for those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and
banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a
way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great."

ARBERRY: "Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has
preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended
of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret
for God's guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them
to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way
against them; God is All high, All great."

SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them
to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women
are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to)
those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in
their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way
against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

ALI: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has
given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them
>from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and
guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those
women on whom part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first),
(next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they
return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance) for Allah is
Most High, Great (above you all).

I placed Ali's version last because I have an important comment to make on his
translation. Ali knew he was writing for a Western audience and that wife
beating is viewed as brutal in the West. So, Ali inserted many of his own
words into the Quran's text in order to make it less harsh. This was deceptive
on Ali's part. Ali inserted his comments at 9 different places in the 4:34
text. I've done a quick review through Ali's Quran, and have not found any
other verse with that many of his insertions. Clearly, something was troubling
him to cause him to add so much. Notice not one other translation has anything
remotely near "lightly" when talking about the physical beating a man is
supposed to give his wife. Ali was in part a Muslim apologist, and his work is
displayed here in his attempt to soften the Quran's real meaning.

ANALYSIS

The Quran lists a progression of steps to be used in dealing with a rebellious
wife:

1) The husband is to verbally admonish her

2) If that fails the husband is to sexually desert his wife

3) If both measures above fail the husband is exhorted to physically beat
his wife.

[NOTE: It must be noted that obedience to her husband is not required if he
orders her to do something sinful, causes her physical pain, or something she
is incapable of doing].

This passage in the Quran lays the foundation for wife beating. Without it,
the case for beating the wife would be somewhat weaker. Wife beating is amply
testified in the Hadith, but having a corroborating verse in the Quran places
the permissible action of wife beating on a solid foundation.

Note, as I pointed out in the introduction, do not focus only on the command
to beat the disobedient wife, also examine the superior position the man has
over the woman. Review the beginning of the verse --- men are "superior", men
have "authority", men are "in charge", men are "the managers", men are "the
maintainers". Clearly, Muhammad put the man over the wife, he is her
custodian, he responsibly maintains her, she obeys him. That is a
foundational premise in an Islamic marriage.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3) THE TRADITIONS (HADITH) ON ISLAMIC WIFE BEATING

The Hadith contain more information relative to how wife beating existed in
the early Islamic culture. There are a variety of writings, all illustrating
various facets of the husband - wife relationship and physical violence against
the wife. I will mention several of them to bring out the wife's lower
position in the marriage, and the exact type of wife beating that occurred in
Muhammad's time, with his approval. In some cases due to the length I will
only quote relevant portions of a Hadith.

HISTORICAL CONTEXUAL BACKGROUND ON 4:34

Here is the reference for the background of 4:34.

"A women complained to Muhammad that her husband slapped her on the face,
(which was still marked by the slap). At first the prophet said to her: "Get
even with him", but then added: "Wait until I think about it". Later on,
Allah supposedly revealed 4:34 to Muhammad, after which the prophet said: "We
wanted one thing but Allah wanted another, and what Allah wanted is best".
[To beat your wife is best.]

The above quote comes from Razi's "At-Tafsir al-Kabir" on 4:34. Razi is one
of the greatest Muslim scholars.

Here is a Hadith from Bukhari vol. 7, # 715, that supports the case:

"Narrated Ikrima: 'Rifaa divorced his wife whereupon Abdur-Rahman married
her. Aisha said that the lady came wearing a green veil and complained to her
(Aisha) and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating. It was the
habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's messenger came, Aisha
said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women.
Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes! When Abdur-Rahman heard that his
wife had gone to the prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She
said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him, but he is impotent and is as
useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment.
Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's messenger! She has told a lie. I am
very strong and can satisfy her, but she is disobedient and wants to go back to
Rifaa." Allah's messenger said to her, "If that is your intention, then know
that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifaa unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual
intercourse with you." The prophet saw two boys with Abdur-Rahman and asked
(him), "Are these your sons?" On that Abdur-Rahman said, "Yes." The prophet
said, "You claim what you claim (that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these
boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow.""

Let's note several items from this Hadith.

1) A woman was beaten by her husband because of marriage discord. The
women did not commit any illegal sexual act. She was beaten and bruised
because her husband said she was "disobedient" and he thought she wanted to
go back to her former husband.

2) The Muslim women were suffering more than the non-Muslim women (via
Aisha's comment), note it is said in the plural. This tells you just how good
Muslim women back then really had it. Things were so bad for them, that they
had to "support" each other.

3) The woman was badly bruised.

4) Muhammad did not re-prove the man for beating his wife. In fact, he
reproached the women for saying Rahman was impotent. Even though she was
bruised, Muhammad accepted it.

OTHER HADITH AND TRADITIONS ON WIFE BEATING

Following are a number of various Hadith that relate instances or comments on
wife beating. Again, I have edited several of these because of length.

ABU JAHM, A WELL KNOW WIFE BEATER

SAHIH MUSLIM. Book 009, Number 3512:

...When my period of 'Idda was over, I mentioned to him [Muhammad] that
Mu'awiya b. Abu Sufyan and Jahm had sent proposal of marriage to me, whereupon
Allah's said: As for Abu Jahm, he does not put down his staff from his
shoulder, and as for Mu'awiya, he is a poor man having no property; marry Usama
b. Zaid. I objected to him, but he again said: Marry Usama; so I married him.
Allah blessed there in and I was envied (by others).

SAHIH MUSLIM Book 009, Number 3526:

...So I informed him [Muhammad]. (By that time) Mu'awiya, Abu Jahm and Usama b.
Zaid had given her the proposal of marriage. Allah's Messenger said: So far as
Mu'awiya is concerned, he is a poor man without any property. So far as Abu
Jahm is concerned, he is a great beater of women, but Usama b. Zaid... She
pointed with her hand (that she did not approve of the idea of marrying) Usama.
But Allah's Messenger said: Obedience to Allah and obedience to His Messenger
is better for thee. She said: So I married him, and I became an object of envy.

SAHIH MUSLIM Book 009, Number 3527:

...She said: Mu'awiya and Abu'l-Jahm were among those who had given me the
proposal of marriage. Thereupon Allah's Apostle said: Mu'awiya is destitute and
in poor condition and Abu'l-Jahm is very harsh with women (or he beats women,
or like that), you should take Usama b. Zaid (as your husband).

COMMENT

These three Hadith illustrate that some Muslim husbands could legally beat
their wives without any retaliatory consequences. Abu Jahm was known to beat
his wives and although Muhammad may not have cared for it, it certainly was
allowed within the Islamic community.

HADITH OF THE SUNAN OF ABU DAWUD

Because the prescribed treatment of the wife, including wife beating is
important in an Islamic marriage, this collection of Abu Dawud's Hadith
contains a small chapter dedicated to wife beating.

CHAPTER 709 - ON BEATING WOMEN

#2141 - Iyas Dhubab reported the apostle of Allah as saying:

"Do not beat Allah's handmaidens", but when Umar came to the apostle of Allah
and said: "Women have become emboldened towards their husbands", he (the
prophet), gave permission to beat them. Then many women came round the family
of the apostle of Allah complaining against their husbands. So the apostle of
Allah said, "Many women have gone round Muhammad's family complaining against
their husbands. They are not the best among you".

Note here that Muhammad commented on the women who were complaining to his
wives: "they are not the best among you". Muhammad was not commenting on the
husbands who beat their wives.

#2142 - Umar reported the prophet as saying: "A man will not be asked
as to why he beat his wife".

Abu Dawud's notes on 2141 are: "This shows that wives should obey their
husbands...". On 2142: "This means that a man tries his best to correct his
wife, but he fails to do so, he is allowed to beat her as a last resort. This
tradition never means that a husband should beat his wife without any valid
reason".

AISHA - MUHAMMAD'S WIFE

Being Muhammad's wife had many great advantages. However, even Aisha and
Hafsah (two of Muhammad's wives) were physically disciplined. Note that in
each case when Aisha was struck, she was married to Muhammad, and she was
probably younger than 16 years old.

SAHIH MUSLIM Book 004, #2127:

...When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger to spend the night with me, he
turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near
his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till
he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put
on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it
lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and
then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he
stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned
and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran
and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I,
however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed,
he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'Aisha, that
you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle
and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and
mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was
it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He
struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that
Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?...

COMMENT
In this Hadith Muhammad chest-slapped Aisha and "caused her pain". In my
opinion, this action is not "wife beating" in the strictest sense. However, it
shows that a woman can be struck under the right circumstances. Muhammad's ego
was challenged, and, he probably was frightened by seeing her shadow late at
night, so, in his anger, he struck Aisha.

SAHIH MUSLIM Book 009, #3506:

Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: Abu Bakr came and sought permission to see Allah's
Messenger. He found people sitting at his door and none amongst them had been
granted permission, but it was granted to Abu Bakr and he went in. Then came
'Umar and he sought permission and it was granted to him, and he found Allah's
Apostle sitting sad and silent with his wives around him. He (Hadrat 'Umar)
said: I would say something which would make the Holy Prophet laugh, so he
said: Messenger of Allah, I wish you had seen (the treatment meted out to) the
daughter of Khadija when you asked me some money, and I got up and slapped her
on her neck. Allah's Messenger laughed and said: They are around me as you see,
asking for extra money. Abu Bakr then got up went to 'Aisha and slapped her on
the neck, and 'Umar stood up before Hafsa and slapped her saying: You ask
Allah's Messenger which he does not possess. They said: By Allah, we do not ask
Allah's Messenger for anything he does not possess....

COMMENT
The context in this Hadith was that Muhammad had been very upset for his
wives. He almost divorced them all. While he was upset, his closest friends
came to cheer him up. Umar mentioned that he had slapped his wife because she
wanted more money than he felt he could give her. Muhammad laughed when he
heard about her being slapped. Then he pointed out his wives' demands for more
money. As a result, both fathers slapped their respective daughters. So in
this case Muhammad didn't strike his wives, but he had others do it for him,
making him just as culpable.

SAHIH BUKHARI VOL. 8 #828

Narrated Aisha: Abu Bakr came to towards me and struck me violently with his
fist and said, "You have detained the people because of your necklace." But I
remained motionless as if I was dead lest I should awake Allah's Apostle
although that hit was very painful.

COMMENT
The context for this Hadith is that Muhammad delayed breaking of camp to
search for Aisha's necklace. This made things hard for his followers because
there was not much water. In his anger, Abu Bakr, Aisha's father, struck her
violently with his fist. Muhammad was asleep next to her, with his head
resting on her legs or side. While this is not "wife beating", it illustrates
the degraded position of Muslim women.

SAHIH BUKHARI Vol. 7, #132

"Narrated Zam'a, "The prophet said, "None of you should flog his wife as he
flogs a slave and then have sexual intercourse with her in the last part of the
day."""

Here, Muhammad does not forbid wife beating, rather, he didn't want them
severely beaten as Muslim's slaves could be beaten.

These Hadith give us glimpses of early Islamic life. They show us how woman
were thought of, and how they were treated. Later Islamic scholars were able
to draw from these stories and develop an Islamic system of life. Women were
the losers in this. But, what the scholars, and Muslim leaders did was
accurate, based upon the Hadith. If wives were beaten with Muhammad's
approval, then that practice should continue today. Muslim women today are
placed in the same position that Rifaa's wife and the slapped women are placed
in: submit or be physically punished.

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4) THE BIOGRAPHICAL MATERIAL (SIRA) RELATED TO WIFE BEATING

MUHAMMAD'S FAREWELL ADDRESS

Shortly before he died as a result of poisoning by a Jewish woman
(http://members.tripod.com/~Islam_Unveiled/modeath.html), Muhammad addressed a
crowd of Muslims in Mecca. He commented on several issues, including the
treatment of women. Here is the pertinent quote. It is taken from Ibn Ishaq's
"Sirat Rasulallah", Guillaume's translation, page 651:

"You have rights over your wives, and they have rights over you. You have the
right that they should not defile your bed and that they should not behave with
open unseemliness. If they do, God allows you to put them in separate rooms
and to beat them, but not with severity. If they refrain from these things and
obey you, they have right to their food and clothing with kindness. Lay
injunctions on women kindly, for they are your wards having no control of their
persons."

Note here that

1) the Islamic definition of "ward" means a person who has been legally
placed under the care of a guardian or court, or a person who is under the
protection and control of another. In other words, Muslim wives are placed
under their husband.

2) Women are to be cared for just like a man cares for a prized horse.

3) The Muslim writer/scholar Ali Dashti, in his book, "23 Years, a Study
of the Prophetic Career of Muhammad", translates the fourth sentence from the
above passage as "Look after women kindly! They are prisoners, not having
control of themselves at all". The passage's word in Arabic "awan" translated
as "ward" or "prisoners" implies that women are in-between slave and free. In
other words, because women are unable control their emotions, men are given
authority over them.

Like the Hadith, the Sira provide important anecdotes on the subject of wife
beating. This quote above has been used many times by various writers. This
is because Muhammad defined a woman's social status "They are prisoners, not
having control of themselves at all", and allowed them to be beaten as
discipline - much in the same way a man would spank a child.

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CURRENT ISLAMIC WIFE BEATING IN THE MIDEAST

Below are excepts from books or newspapers that mention or deal with Islamic
wife beating.

The Guardian Weekly, a British newspaper on 23/12/1990 printed: "In 1987 an
Egyptian court, following an interpretation of the Koran proposed by the
Syndicate of Arab Lawyers, ruled that a husband had the duty to educate his
wife and therefore the right to punish her as he wished."

Note here that with the current upswing of Islamic fundamentalism in the
mid-east, a group of Muslim lawyers wanted to legally allow husbands to beat
their wives. This is based on Quranic / Islamic law - Sharia. Their reasoning
ties in with 4:34. Since the man is responsible for the women, he should be
allowed to discipline her as he sees fit. It's the 'with responsibility comes
authority' line of reasoning.

"THE SAUDIS"

Islamic wife beating has been observed in the Mideast. Sandra Mackay in her
book "The Saudis", comments on the amount of wife beating that goes on there:

"Women survive by totally placing themselves in the hands of men. It is in
this basic relationship of master and servant that a woman's physical needs are
met..... Restlessness is repressed.... Obedience is security.

"The man's absolute authority over the women in his family is maintained
through fear - the fear of physical brutality, the fear of economic
insecurity...." (page 138).

"My translator lowered her head and quietly said that if the men found out
about the women's disobedience, they would be beaten." page 139.

There are more references to wife abuse in Mackay's book.

"PRINCESS"

In 1992, the book "Princess" was published. The author, Jean Sasson, used the
writings of a close Saudi friend of hers and penned this book. Some quotes
that illustrate the subjection and physical abuse of women are:

From page 21: "Although the Koran does state that women are secondary to
men...

From page 22: "The authority of the Saudi male is unlimited; his wife and
child survive only if he desires. ...From an early age, the male child is
taught that women are of little value: they exist only for his comfort and
convenience..... Taught only the role of master to slave, it is little wonder
that by the time he is old enough to take a mate, he considers her his chattel,
not his partner."

Throughout the book, there are many stories of the abuse of women. Some of
these concern women being put to death, abused by their husbands, locked away
in solitary confinement by their families, beaten by male family members, etc.

While "Westernized" Muslims will argue that what the Saudis are doing is
cultural, not Islamic, I feel that this is either denial or ignorance on the
part of Muslims living in the West. Saudi Arabia is he birthplace of Islam.
Muhammad grew up in Mecca. Saudi has been the heart of Islam ever since. I
would think that if any place in the world practiced real Islam, it would be
Saudi Arabia.

ON AOL

There has been considerable discussion of wife beating (on AOL). One Muslim
female described how she was continually beaten by her husband. She went to
the mosque and talked to the Imams there, asking for their help in dealing with
him. They did nothing to help her, they discounted her story. The beatings
continued. Finally, he took a baseball bat to her. She went to the police.
The husband became a fugitive. After the mosque leaders saw her bruised body
they believed her.

A fellow Muslim commented that "every female I know who has had her face
kicked in was married to one man". He also stated that the cases of wife
abuse he knew about were ones where there was only one wife (i.e. the husband
did not have additional wives).

The comments from the many Muslims on wife beating are sometimes amusing,
sometimes tragic. Some said that the beating was to be done with a
handkerchief. Other's said it was a small twig, other's said it was not to be
done at all, others said it was okay to do if the man was doing it according to
Islamic rules, etc.

With near 2 billion Christians, and 1 billion Muslims in the world, spousal
abuse is going to occur. However, the New Testament does not command men to
beat disobedient wives, the Quran does.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10) QUESTIONS

Several questions need to be asked about the implications of 4:34, the Hadith,
and Muhammad's farewell address.

1) Why does the Muslim "Allah" have to tell men to beat their wives before
seeking family council? What was "Allah" really thinking?

2) Why does "Allah" include a command to beat wives in the Quran, but does not
command men to love their wives?

3) What kind of relationship is this really establishing between a husband and
wife? I believe that husbands and wives have the right to disagree,
and even refuse to do certain "NON-SINFUL" actions. We each have the right to
make personal choices in our lives. What does this say about the real,
foundational, Islamic relationship between husband and wife?

4) How does Muhammad's statement that women lack self-control, placing men over
them effect a women's self esteem and her relationship with her husband and
family?

5) What does 4:34 really say about a women's societal position? Why does
Muhammad place women under man by using the idiom meaning women are in-between
slave and free?

6) What is the social and psychological significance for women in the long run
knowing they are physically subjected to men and can be beaten by their
husbands if they begin to suspect that their wives are disobedient to them?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

11) CONCLUSION

Islam establishes a wife's position with regards to her husband: he is her
custodian. He takes care of her and she obeys him. If the wife persists in
disobedience to her husband requests or orders the Quran allows husbands to
beat their wives. This can be a brutal way to subject women. As in Saudi and
other places it causes women to become almost de-humanized. By establishing
that a women is not able to control herself, placing men as 'managers' of
women, and further even commanding men to beat women, women are relegated to a
servant's position in life. Like a kept prized animal, women are people who
are to treated kindly, but severely disciplined when they get out of line.
There is no way to justify this degrading, institutionalized, physical and
psychological abuse of women allowed and commanded by Islam.

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12) WHERE TO TURN FOR HELP

No matter where you work or how limited your time, take a few moments to copy
this list. Abuse rarely stops without outside intervention, so pass it on to
people subjected to domestic violence.

There have been recent court cases in which women married to Muslim who abused
them have been given protection, custody of the family, and support.
Additionally, the abusers have been arrested and charged with crime. If you
know of females being abused by their Muslim husbands, take action.

Family Violence and Sexual Assault Institute 1310 Clinic Drive Tyler,
TX 75701 (903) 595- 6600

National Assault Prevention Center 606 Delsea Drive Sewell, NJ 08080
(908) 369-8972

National Council on Child Abuse and Family Violence 1155 Connecticut
Ave., Suite 400 Washington, DC 20036 (202) 429-6695 or (800) 222-2000

National Institute for Violence Prevention Box 1035 Sandwich, MA 02563
(508) 833-0731

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APPENDICES

13) REVIEW OF THE WORD "BEAT"

The word in the Quran in 4:34 used for "beat" is "idreb". It is a conjugate
of the word "daraba" which primarily means "to beat, strike, to hit" - Hans
Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic, page 538. Other definitions of the
word "daraba" are: "to behead, to apply a proverb to, to shoot, to shell, to
make music, to sting, to separate, to impose, to cruise, to migrate, etc.
"Daraba" has many more meanings, too numerous to list.

Accordingly, "daraba", or its conjugated derivatives, are used in many similar
ways in the Quran, both in physically striking or in applying a proverb. Other
uses /translations are "journeying".

The root of "daraba" is "darb" which means "beating, striking, hitting,
shooting, bombing, coining, formation, minting, (ibid page 539).

Some Muslims assert that since this word has other meanings, depending on the
context, it could also mean verbally chastise.

I agree that the context of the use of the word helps to truly determine its
real meaning in the passage. Context is critical in understanding a passage.
As noted the word used for the case in point is "idreb". This is the word we
must focus our attention on to determine it's meaning by it's use in the
context of the passage. Also, we should use the Quran to interpret the Quran.

Examine the Quran's uses of "idrib". I find that it is used 12 times in the
Quran. Beginning at 2:60 (Using Ali's translation)

2:60 - "strike" the rock with thy staff...
2:73 - "strike" the body
4:34 - refuse to share their beds, "beat" them...
7:160 - "strike" the rock with thy staff...
8:12 - "smite" you above their necks...
8:12 - and "smite" all their finger tips off them...
18:32 - "set forth" to them the parable
18:45 - "set forth" to them the similitude of the life
20:77 - and "strike" a dry path for them through the sea..
26:63 - "strike" the sea with thy rod
36:13 - "set forth" to them by way of a parable
38:44 - and take in thy hand a little grass and "strike"

Not counting the disputed use of "idreb" in 4:34, the word is used in two
ways:

1) Eight times it is used in the physical action of striking

2) Three times it is used in the context of speaking or applying a proverb.

Clearly then, the most frequent context of the word is in physically striking.

Notice that all of the translations of the Quran translate it as "beat" or
similar. None of the translations use the term related to "applying a
parable". All translations use some form of physical striking.

So, what does the context of 4:34 imply?

First of all, the man has already tried the verbal approach. He has already
admonished his wife, and it has failed to bring her into submission to him.
Second, he has stopped sleeping with her. This means he is no longer having
"relations" with her. [I wonder who is really punished more in this, the
husband or the wife?]. And she is still refusing to obey her husband. So,
now, if she continues in rebellion, something more drastic must occur.
"Applying a parable" won't do. The verbal has already failed, and the man and
woman are now deprived sexually. Since 4:34 describes a progression of
stronger actions which must be followed, something stronger needs to be done
according to the Quran's progression.

The next step is then "idreb". It can only be the physical "beating" meaning
most frequently associated with "idreb" in the Quran. Therefore, the context
in 4:34, clearly shows that "beat, flog, or scourge" is the correct
translation.

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14) REVIEW OF THE WORD "NUSHUZ"

ON "OBEDIENCE" AS TRANSLATED

There have been disagreements on the meaning of the Arabic word 'nushuz' for
'refractoriness', 'rebellious', or 'obedience'. Muslims wishing to abate the
justification for wife beating have sought to make it allowable only in the
case of wife's sexual immorality. This is not true to the record.

First, review the scholar's translations: Rodwell uses 'refractoriness',
Dawood uses 'disobedience', Pickthall uses 'rebellion', Arberry uses
"rebellious", Shakir uses "desertion", and Ali uses "disloyalty and
ill-conduct". It's obvious that all of these contain 'disobedience' to the
husband.

The other place in the Quran where "nushuz" occurs is in 4:128. Dawood
translates this verse as

"If a women fear ill-treatment or desertion on the part of her husband....."

and

In the Hans-Wehr p966, 'nushuz' is translated as "hostility, discord,
violation of marital duties on the part of either the husband or wife,
specifically, the recalcitrance of the woman toward her husband, and brutal
treatment of the wife by the husband".

Recalcitrance means "resisting authority or control, refractory, hard to deal
with or manage". Clearly, disobedience of the wife towards the husband, is
within the definition of 'nushuz'. Some Muslims have maintained that "nushuz"
in 4:34 only deals with sexual infidelity or inappropriate sexual behavior on
the part of the wife, but from the Quran's context, and dictionary definition,
there is more to it than that.

NUSHUZ IN CONTEXT

Take a closer look at the Quran's text. Near the middle of the verse, in each
version, the justification for wife beating is laid out: "As for those from
whom you fear "disobedience", (or "rebellion")". I will note that this
disobedience is not one of a minor personal choice, but one of severe disregard
to her husband's wishes.

Near the end of the verse, in each version, it says "then if they obey you",
meaning if they are obedient. The justification for the man to beat the wife
is her rebellion or disobedience. This verse means that men are to beat their
wives if they persist in strident disobedience to their husbands.

If it appears from the attitude and behavior of the wife that she is not
properly fulfilling the obligations and duties that fall upon her consequent to
the agreement of marriage, either with respect to her husband, or to her
children, he is given certain powers as head of the family to discipline and
correct the manners and behavior of the wife.

The difficult issue here is that "nushuz" is determined by the husband. If he
feels that she is committing "nushuz" then he can begin to take the steps of
discipline, which can lead to her beating. Look carefully at 4:34. It says
"as for those from whom you fear disobedience...". It is saying that the man
may begin to discipline his wife based solely upon his discretion. As
Muhammad said, "A man is not to be asked why he beat his wife".

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

15) CRITIQUE OF MUHAMMAD ASAD'S NOTES IN HIS TRANSLATION OF THE QURAN

Here are Muhammad Asad's comments on the wife beating aspects found in his
translation of the Quran.

END OF QUOTE

In examination Asad's commentary has Problems. Asad forces Muhammad's words

>from his farewell pilgrimage onto 4:34. If Asad were truly familiar with the
sources on wife beating he would know that wife beating can be done for BOTH
immoral sexual conduct and persistent disobedience. There is no justification
for forcing one context upon another.

His next error is that he translates ghayr mubarrih as "not to cause pain".

Guillaume translates it as "not severely". How do you beat someone without

causing them pain? The two concepts do not go together. If I beat you, it
will hurt, otherwise it is not a beating.

He then quotes the "symbolic", "toothbrush" and "handkerchief" comments. The
Islamic sources all show that in the days of early Islam wife beating was
painful and done with the hand and perhaps even a stick.

Muhammad didn't like wife beating, and didn't beat his own wives, but he
approved of it. Since he frequently got people to do his dirty work for him,
when problems with his wives arose, he allowed Umar and Abu Bakr to slap their
daughters. Muhammad didn't beat his wives; he had others do it for him.

Obviously he didn't detest it that much.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

16) REFERENCES

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5) ISLAMIC WIFE BEATING - THE SCHOLARS

What follows are quotes from some of the greatest scholars in Islamic history

on the subject of wife beating.

IBN KATHIR

Ibn Kathir is one of the great Islamic scholars. His commentary (tafseer) is a
favorite of Sunni Muslims. Excerpts from his commentary on Islamic wife
beating - 4:34 follow. The quote is very long, but it is of great value in
describing how the woman is placed in Islam, and the justification for her
husband to beat her. Because of his detail, I felt it necessary to include his
entire set of relevant comments. I quote from pages 50 through 53.

"In this verse Allah says that the man is the leader over the woman and is the
one who disciplines her if she does wrong. "Because Allah has made one of them
excel the other", this is because men are better than women, and a man is
better tan a woman. Therefore, prophethood and great kingship were confined to
men, as the Prophet said, "A people that choose a woman as their leader will
not succeed." This Hadith was narrated by Al-Bukhari. Added to that positions
such as the judiciary, etc,... "And because they spend from their means."
Here, Allah refers to the dowry and expenses, which Allah has prescribed in the
Quran and Sunnah; and given a man is better than a woman, it is appropriate
that he be her protector and maintainer, as Allah says: "But men have a degree
over them." 2:228

Therefore, a woman should obey her husband in what Allah has commanded her
with regards to his obedience and Allah's obedience. She should be kind
towards his family, protective of his wealth. The statement was also held by
Muqatil, As-Sudiy and Adh-Dhahhak.

On the authority of Ali, Ibn Mardawaih narrated: "A man from al-Ansar came
with a woman to the Prophet, then the woman said: "O Allah's messenger! Her
husband who was known as so and so from al-Ansar had hit her and that had
affected her face." The Prophet replied: "He should not have done that."
Then, the verse, "men are the protectors and maintainers of women", as far as
discipline is concerned, was revealed. Therefore, the Prophet said, "You
wanted something and Allah wanted something else.""

"Because Allah has made one of them excel the other and because they spend
>from their means." Ash-Sha'bi stated that this excellence refers to the bridal
money; for if the husband reprimands her, he shall not be punished and if she
reprimands him, she will be lashed. "Therefore the righteous among women, are
devoutly obedient" to their husbands. "And guard in the husband's absence" her
honor and his wealth. "What Allah orders them to guard." This part of the
verse means that the guarded is he whom Allah has guarded.

Quoting Abu Hurairah, Ibn Jarir narrated: "The Prophet said: "The best among
women are the ones who pleases you when you look at her, obeys you when you
give her an order and guards herself and your wealth during your absence."
Then the Prophet recited: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of
women...""

"As to those women on whose part you see misconduct (nushuzuhunna)." The
reference is made to those who show disobedience. It is said that a nashiza -
>from the verb nashaza = to disobey - is a woman who disobeys her husband's
order, opposes and dislikes him. Therefore, if a husband feels the signs of
her disobedience, he should give her advice, threaten her with Allah's
Punishment for her disobedience to her husband. This is because Allah has

prescribed that a wife has a duty towards her husband and she should obey him,

and the it is unlawful for her to disobey him due to his excellence. The
Prophet said in this context: "If I were to order one to prostrate to another,

I would order a women to prostrate to her husband due to the greatness of her
duty towards him."

"Refuse to share their beds." Ibn Abbas said: "A man should advise her if
she accepts. Otherwise, he should refuse to share their bed." Quoting Ibn
Abbas, "Sharing the bed means: a man should not have sexual intercourse with
his wife, and should turn his back on her in bed. Quoting Muawiyyah Ibn Hida
al-Qushairi, it is narrated in the books of Sunan (Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah,
etc...) and Musnad: "O Allah Messenger! What is a man's duty towards his
wife?" The Prophet replied: "Feed her when you feed yourself, buy her
clothes when you buy yourself clothes, do not hit her in the face, do not scold
and do not desert her except in the house.""

"And beat them." If they do not abstain from their disobedience through both
advice and desertion. However, the beating should be dharbun ghayru nubrah,
i.e. light, according to the Hadith narrated in Sahih Muslim, on the authority
of Jabir, who had quoted the Prophet as saying in his farewell pilgrimage:
"And fear Allah in women, for they are your aides, and their duties towards you
is that your beds should not be shared with someone you dislike. Therefore, if
they disobey you, beat them lightly, and your duty towards them is that you
should maintain and buy them clothes in a reasonable manner."

Scholars said: dharbun ghayru nubrah means: The husband should beat his wife
lightly, in a way which does not result in breaking one of her limbs or
affecting her badly.

"But if they obey, seek not against them means (of annoyance)." If a woman
obeys her husband in all what he wants from her, as long as within the
boundaries of what is lawful, he should not beat nor desert her."

END OF IBN KATHIR QUOTE

COMMENTS

1) Kathir states that "nushuz" is made to those who show "disobedience".
Some Muslims believe that "nushuz" relates only to sexual misconduct.

Clearly, that position is incorrect. It has all to do with the wife

persistently disobeying the husband Notice Kathir's statement, "because of

his excellence"? This is tied to "men are superior to women".

2) He states that the beating should be light. Define a "light" beating.

He cites from Muhammad's farewell address. He adds, "the husband should beat

his wife lightly, in a way which does not result in breaking on e of her limbs
or affecting her badly."

3) Another interesting point: Ibn Kathir notes the Hadith in which a man

slapped his wife's face. The translator of Ibn Kathir notes that this Hadith

does not have a "muttasil sanad". However, this does not mean that the Hadith
is false, only that the isnaad is incomplete. Obviously Ibn Kathir thought is
was true. It is the only background of 4:34 that I am aware of.

AL-NAWAWI

Nawawi is one of the great Islamic jurisprudence scholars. He was a 13th
century Shafi'i scholar. His work was used by Ahmad Naqib in writing "Reliance
of the Traveller". This book is a "Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law".
>From the section m10.12, "Dealing with a Rebellious Wife", page 540,

"fear Allah concerning the rights you owe to me," or it could be to explain

that rebelliousness nullifies his obligation to support her and give her a turn
amongst other wives, or it could be to inform her, "Your obeying me is
religiously obligatory"). If she commits rebelliousness, he keeps from
sleeping (and having sex) with her without words, and may hit her, but not in a
way that injures her, meaning he may not (bruise her), break bones, wound her,
or cause blood to flow. (It is unlawful to strike another's face.) He may hit
her whether she is rebellious only once or whether more than once, though a
weaker opinion holds that he may hot hit her unless there is repeated
rebelliousness."

If the wife does not fulfill one of the above mentioned obligations, she is
termed "rebellious" (nashiz), and the husband takes the following steps to
correct matters:

END OF QUOTE

COMMENTS

The only exception I take with this text concerns "bruise her". People can
bruise very easily. And bruises occur after the fact. Hadith show that a
woman was bruised, and it was acceptable to Muhammad. On the other hand, I
certainly agree that Muhammad taught to break no bones, cause no wounds, and
shed no blood.

Note that it is permissible for the husband to beat his wife if she has a bad
attitude towards him. "Rebellion" is determined by the husband. His standards
apply to her. If his standards change, she will have to change accordingly.
And, since they are more or less individual standards of obedience, they will
vary from man to man.

FATIMA MERNISSI

Fatima Mernissi is a feminist Muslim. She is not considered an Islamic
scholar. I've included quotes from her here because she quotes from famous
Islamic scholars. She is somewhat unpopular in the Islamic world because she
criticizes what she sees. She has written several good books on the oppression
of Muslim women under the state of Islam today. She believes that originally,
Islam treated women much better than they are treated today. There is some
truth to that. However, Mernissi has overlooked many of the Hadith that deal
with the relegated position of women in Islam. Like most people who challenge
and break from their cultures and faiths, she has a hard time making a clean
break by laying part of the blame of female oppression on the oppressive
Islamic system.

Here are a set of quotes related to the degradation of women and Islamic wife
beating from her book, "The Veil and the Male Elite".

Commenting on 4:34, p155, she writes: "If we continue the reading of this

verse, we realize that it sanctifies the right of men to strike their wives in

case of "nushuz" - that is, rebellion against male authority: ...

Here Mernissi agrees with the correct understanding of "nushuz", i.e.

persistent disobedience against the male authority. Mernissi provides a

valuable quote from Tabari on the definition of "nushuz":

She continues, "During a violent dispute an Ansari man slapped his wife. The

injured woman hurried to the prophet and demanded that he, as hakam (that is,
arbiter in the legal sense), apply the law of retaliation, and that he take
action on the spot. Muhammad was preparing to make his decision to fulfill her

request when the verse was revealed. God had decided otherwise. ... "I wanted

one thing, and God wanted another."

Here she uses the Hadith in which the wife is slapped and her face is marked.

Obviously, it had enough validity for Mernissi to use. It is the only story I

know of that provides the contextual background for 4:34.

Finally, Mernissi furnishes another quote from Tabari on 4:34:

(dowry) that men pay to their wives when the marriage contract is concluded...

it is because they spend their wealth on them that men have authority over
women. but although all the experts cited agree on men's supremacy over women,
there is no unanimity on the extent of that power, particularly when it is a
question of nushuz, rebellion in the matter of sex.

Mernissi states that Tabari believed that "banish them to their bed" meant to

tie the woman up in the bed!

What the quotes from the Islamic scholars portray is how women are viewed in
Islam historically. Their scholarship has analyzed the early Islamic writings
on the issue, and they have taught accordingly. For the most part, all of the
great, early Islamic scholars agreed on the issues related to wife beating.
The big picture that they paint is of a woman being subjugated to the man and
obedience is due him.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6) OTHER ISLAMIC WRITINGS

"WOMEN IN ISLAM"

In the Islamic publication, "Women in Islam", published by the Islamic
Publications in Lahore Pakistan it also states the reasons and justification
for Islamic wife beating, page 35:

"The family life should be harmonious. If anything goes wrong and there is
any misunderstanding four steps are to be taken to deal with such a situation:
1) verbal advice and admonitions, 2) then the family relation is to be
suspended, 3) after that slight physical correction (beating slightly) may be
administered and the fourth is a family council to settle the differences if
there is any."

On page 36, the book further elaborates: "If she still resists, then he is to
administer a slight physical correction. He is to scourge her. When he flogs
her, he should remember that he is beating his own wife. He should not beat
her when he is angry; whatever the cause of his anger could be. The flogging
must never leave any marks on her. It should be slight and not very painful."

I want to again note here that Muslim apologists always say that the beating
should be 'light'. But, in the context, it has to be severe enough to bring
her into obedience. And it must produce a stronger psychological effect that
verbal chastisement and sexual desertion produce. In other words - it's got to
hurt. But the husband is not to whip her like a slave, or severely injure the
wife.

"YOU ASK AND ISLAM ANSWERS"

In the Islamic publication "You Ask and Islam Answers", page 94, Abdul
Mushtahiri says, "If admonishing and sexual desertion fail to bring forth
results and the woman is of a cold and stubborn type, the Quran bestows on man
the right to straighten her out by way of punishment and beating provided he
does not break her bones nor shed blood. Many a wife belongs to this querulous
type and requires this sort of punishment to bring her to her senses." (Quoted
>from "Beyond the Veil", p79.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7) DAMAGE DUE TO WIFE BEATING

PHYSICAL DAMAGE

There is no need to elaborate on the physical damage that can be done to women
because of being beaten. Suffice it to say that there will be bodily harm done
>from small bruises to welts to injuries to broken bones.

PSYCHOLOGICAL DAMAGE

A number of medical studies prove that not only is a women physically damaged
by being beaten but she suffers from psychological damage as well. And while
the bruises of the beating disappear after a few weeks, the psychological
damage lasts for years and leaves deeper scars. Here are some excerpts.

1) "Battered", By Parker, Veronica F

Citation: RN, v58n1, pp.26-29, Jan 1995
Number:02211876 Features: References; Illustration Copyright: Copyright
Medical Economics Publishing Inc. 1995

"Physical manifestations of abuse range from minor, temporary bruising to
permanent impairment and death. But while battering occasionally leaves no
scars and few physical symptoms, it almost always causes psychological
distress. Researchers have identified low self-esteem, poor self-image,
and a propensity to anxiety, depression, and psychosomatic illness as
characteristics common to victims of domestic violence."

2) Title: Female victims of spousal violence: Factors
influencing...Subject(s): WOMEN -- Crimes against; NATIONAL Family Violence
Survey, 1985Source: Family Relations, Jan96, Vol. 45 Issue 1, p98, 9p, 2
charts, 2 diagrams
Author(s): DeMaris, Alfred; Swinford, Steven
ISSN: 0197-6664

FEMALE VICTIMS OF SPOUSAL VIOLENCE: FACTORS INFLUENCING THEIR LEVEL OF
FEARFULNESS

This study employed data from the 1985 National Family Violence Survey to
explore the predictors of fear about future abuse among 356 married or
cohabiting women whose partners had previously abused them. We found that fear
was higher among women whose partners had initiated the violence or who had
subjected them to forced sex, or women who felt that their own use of violence
would result in disastrous consequences for them. Unexpectedly, having enlisted
the help of shelters, lawyers, or therapists was related to greater fear.
Accounting for fear at more than one point in time may explain these findings.

One of the more insidious aspects of family violence is the climate of fear
that is created for those who are victimized by it. Regardless of whether the
violence has been relatively minor, or more severe, relatively infrequent or
more routine, the fear that it will reoccur is an ever-present reality.

3) Title: Transition shelters have positive impact on psychological
health.Subject(s): FAMILY violence -- Psychological aspects; ABUSED women
Source: Women's Health Weekly, 08/26/96-09/02/96 Issue N, p13, 2p
Author(s): Marble, Michelle

TRANSITION SHELTERS HAVE POSITIVE IMPACT ON PSYCHOLOGICAL HEALTH

Low levels of self-esteem, an externally oriented sense of control, and
depression tend to be the psychological consequences of physical spousal abuse
of women. Verbal abuse also contributes to decline in mental health.
Physically abused women report higher incidence of this type of psychological
abuse than women who are not in physically violent relationships.

Highly significant differences were observed between the groups in feeling of
personal power. depression, and self-esteem. A third of the abused women were
severely depressed as measured by their scores of 30 and above on the Beckman
Depression Inventory, and depression scores increased with frequency and
severity of abuse.

COMMENT
As you will read shortly, many women in the Islamic world live in dreadful
fear of being beaten by their husbands. Islam allows wife beating and it is a
major social problem. There are Muslim clergy who insist it is a right in
Islam to beat the disobedient wife. They feel that if wife beating is
outlawed, their religious rights are violated.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

8) CURRENT ISLAMIC WIFE BEATING IN AMERICA

Recently, several concerned Muslims have put up a website decrying the abuse
of Muslim women in America. They bring to light the wife beatings and abuse
that many Muslims women in America go through. We don't hear much about it
because it is kept so hush hush within the Islamic community. I welcome what
these Muslims are doing: bringing out one of the uglier aspects of Islam.

Here are some relevant quotes from their webpage, found at

http://www.mpac.org/mafv/article_01.html

Although the following quote is long, I did not quote the article in full, I
only used parts that were relevant to the topic of this paper. However, I
encourage everyone to read the article in full.

Wife Abuse in the Muslim Community
BY KAMRAN MEMON

"While North American Muslims loudly protest the widely-documented Serbian
abuse of Muslim women in Bosnia, the abuse of many Muslim women at the hands of
their own husbands in North America is hidden and ignored by the community.

Based on information from Muslim leaders, social workers, and activists in
North America, the North American Council for Muslim Women says that
approximately 10 percent of Muslim women are abused emotionally, physically,
and sexually by their Muslim husbands. (There are no hard numbers, because
community leaders haven't taken the well-known problem seriously enough to
research.)

FORMS OF ABUSE OF MUSLIM WOMEN

"Domestic violence is an ongoing, debilitating experience of physical,
psychological, and/or sexual abuse in the home," says the American Medical
Association.

Although Islam promises women protection from such problems, the reality in
many Muslim homes is different. The most common form of abuse is emotional and
mental abuse. In Muslim homes, this includes verbal threats to divorce the
wife, to remarry, or to take the kids away if she does not do exactly as she is
told; intimidation and threats of harm; degradation, humiliation, insults,
ridicule, name-calling, and criticism; false accusations and blaming her for
everything; ignoring, dismissing, or ridiculing her needs; neglect and the
silent treatment; spying on her; telling her she is a failure and will go to
hell; twisting Islamic teachings to make her feel worthless because she is a
woman; restricting her access to transportation, health care, food, clothing,
money, friends, or social services; physical and social isolation; extreme
jealousy and possessiveness; lying, breaking promises, destroying trust; etc.
Emotional abuse can take place in public or at home.

Furthermore, psychological abuse can lead to physical abuse.

Physical abuse includes pushing, shoving, choking, slapping, punching, kicking,
and beating; assault with a weapon; tying up; refusing to help her when she is
sick or injured; physically throwing her out of the house; etc. Physical abuse
escalates in frequency and severity.

The third form of abuse is sexual abuse, involving forced, violent sex. For
example, a wife may not want to have sex for health reasons, but the husband
may force her anyway.

Then, if their wives dare to speak up or question their orders, these men
misinterpret a Quranic verse that talks about how to treat a disobedient wife
and use it as a license for abuse.

Of those who reach a breaking point and seek help, many Muslim women turn to
Imams but often find them unhelpful. Imams often tell these women to be
patient and pray for the abuse to end. Some imams make the abused Muslim women
feel guilty, telling them they have brought the abuse upon themselves and
instructing them to go home and please their husbands. Other imams, who are
sincerely but mistakenly misinterpreting Islam by putting the importance of
family privacy above any harm that might come to the individual woman, tell the
women it is wrong for them to discuss their problems with anyone other than
their husbands. The Imams's reactions stem from ignorance, cowardice, or
friend-ship or blood relationship with the abusive husbands. Relatively few
imams have had the wisdom and courage to tackle the problem head-on. As a
result of this, many abused women don't bother turning to Imams for help.

END OF QUOTE

Obviously, Islamic wife beating is a problem. It is much bigger than
outsiders think because many Muslim women are unwilling or unable to get help.
Many Muslim women accept this abuse as Allah's will, consequently, they will
not go for help because that would be a greater degree of rebellion towards
their husbands and God. This is a tragic dilemma for these unfortunate women.
They are trapped between an abusive husband, and a god that allows the abuse.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9) ISLAMIC WIFE BEATING IN THE REST OF THE WORLD

Probably everywhere that a large Muslim community exists, there will be a
spousal abuse problem. Since women are gaining more rights and legal
protection throughout the world (the Islamic Mideast trails most of the world
with regard to women's rights), Islamic spousal abuse, justified upon the
Quran's teachings, are coming to the forefront.

SPAIN

Recently, a Muslim Imam (minister), published a "how to" book on Islamic wife
beating in Spain. It provoked a huge public outcry from women who have worked
hard to end spousal abuse. Here is an excerpt from an article from the BBC.

"The imam writes that, to avoid serious damage, a husband should never hit his
wife in a state of extreme or blind anger. He should never hit sensitive
parts of the body such as the face, head, breasts or stomach. He should only
hit the hands or feet using a rod that is thin and light so that
it does not leave scars or bruises on the body. The husband's aim, he said,
should be to cause psychological suffering and not to humiliate or physically
abuse his wife.

A spokesperson for one of the groups presenting the lawsuit, the Federation for
Divorced and Separated Women, said that the book was illegal under the Spanish
penal code and that the imam was guilty of inciting violence against women."

COMMENT
If inciting violence against women is illegal, they will have to outlaw the
Quran!

TURKEY

Similar to Spain, this same problem exists in Turkey as well. Fundamentalist
Muslims are trying to establish the right to beat their wives are part and
parcel of their faith.

I have edited non-essential comments from this article taken from Turkish news
dated Aug 9. 2000:

http://www.turkishdailynews.com/FrTDN/latest/dom.htmTo beat, or not to beat, a
woman. Turkey has recently been witnessing a debate between the Religious
Affairs Directorate and the Pious Foundation on the status of women in Islam

Ankara - Turkish Daily News
In response to the Pious Foundations's publication, "The Muslim's Handbook,"
which says that it is permissible to beat women, the Religious Affairs
Directorate decided to publish a book to correct superstitions about the status
of women in Islam.
Turkey has recently been witnessing a debate between the Religious Affairs
Directorate and the Pious Foundation over women in Islam. The foundation is
affiliated to the Religious Affairs Directorate. The Pious Foundation's
publications came in the middle of the Religious Affairs Directorate's efforts
to initiate a more modern interpretation of Islam.
The controversial "Muslim's Handbook," gave detailed on information how and on
what basis a woman can be beaten by her husband. The book advises believers not
to hit their women too hard. According to the book a man can keep a second wife
at home under certain circumstances.
"If a woman is ill and has little children in need of care, and if her husband
has financial problems and cannot afford a nurse, then he may take a second
wife," the book says.
The Religious Affairs Directorate has initiated scientific research on the
sources and fundamentals of superstitions about women's role in Islam. The
directorate said that there is no gender distinction in Islam and that Islam
does not isolate women from social life.
"The basis of implementations violating women's rights is traditional more than
religious," the head of the Religious Affairs Directorate, Mehmet Nuri Yilmaz,
wrote in a column in the directorate's monthly publication. "Islam does not
accept housework as women's basic duty. These duties can
be performed by women as they wish," Yilmaz wrote. "In the early years of
Islam, women went to mosques. They sat freely with the Prophet Muhammad and
asked him all kinds of question," Yilmaz added.

In the middle of this debate, the book has attracted harsh reaction from the
public and from female deputies. Parliamentary Human Rights Commission
Chairperson Sema Piskinsut said, "Supporting violence with moral and religious
dogma is an incorrect attitude." Saying that Islam is a religion based on
reconciliation, Piskinsut stated, "Islam forbids men to put pressure on women."

"The question is not just about beating women. No one has the right to hit
another person. Trying to justify beating women by invoking religion is a
violation of human rights. Those who claim women may be beaten by their
husbands should be aware that everybody, no matter what their gender, is a
human being," said Sevgi Esen, Kayseri True Path Party (DYP) deputy.

Altway 2

unread,

Aug 14, 2000, 9:29:35 PM8/14/00

In article <8n31k5$9h4$1...@samba.rahul.net>, sila...@aol.com (SILAS778) writes:

>1) Why does the Muslim "Allah" have to tell men to beat their wives before
seeking family council? What was "Allah" really thinking?
>2) Why does "Allah" include a command to beat wives in the Quran, but does
not command men to love their wives?
>3) What kind of relationship is this really establishing between a husband
and wife? I believe that husbands and wives have the right to disagree,
and even refuse to do certain "NON-SINFUL" actions. We each have the right
to make personal choices in our lives. What does this say about the real,
foundational, Islamic relationship between husband and wife?
>4) How does Muhammad's statement that women lack self-control, placing men
>over them effect a women's self esteem and her relationship with her husband
and
>family?
>5) What does 4:34 really say about a women's societal position? Why does
>Muhammad place women under man by using the idiom meaning women are
>in-between slave and free?
>6) What is the social and psychological significance for women in the long
>run knowing they are physically subjected to men and can be beaten by their
>husbands if they begin to suspect that their wives are disobedient to them?

Comment:-
Here is an illustration of Islam bashing.
Silas appears to be obsessed with wife-beating. He ignores all the teachings of
Islam in order to concentrate on what he thinks is negative. He is not a muslim
but has spent a great amount of time and effort searching for negative
statements against women in Islamic literature, but non searching for positive
statements. Nor has he searched for negative statements against women in
Christian literature. He takes a verse out of its context and quotes not the
Quran but what others say about this, ignoring every other article or verse
that is relevant to the relationship between the sexes. He asks questions but
does not really want an answer. Does he expect muslims to abandon the Quran and
accept his judgements instead? But his judgements arise from a culture pervaded
by the Feminist movement which ignores God and the connected values and
responsibilities, and seeks license and self-indulgence for women, including
free love and infanticide. What he sees is not what a Muslim, one who
surrenders to God, sees.

The Quran sets certain standards, and in order to maintain them, also
legislates. Jesus did not legislate but expected his followers to continue with
the Hebrew Law. So comparison cannot be made between Christianity which
abandoned the Law and Islam which re-established it and to suit the
circumstances of the new times.

The Quran allows the punishments of miscreants who break these standards, e.g.
thieves and murderers. What does Silas think this says about the equality of
man and the social and psychological significance of this?

Marriage is an important part of Islam and the Quran sets standards of conduct
for the spouses. It allows the punishment only of those wives who break the
standards, and it is a last resort and not the great violence which causes
injury. Wife beating was quite common and is so in the West to this day. The
Quran controls this. In so far as men and women obey the standards expected,
the punishment abolishes itself. When there is no law these standards are
flouted and things gradually degenerate as is quite obvious from observation of
life around us. If the men were obliged to provide for their wives, is it not
reasonable that wives should in return have duties toweards husbands? How was
this to be ensured? Who was to carry out the punishment when there was no
police force? A stranger? Or should they divorce them and throw them out?

It is an Islamic belief that the instructions given in the Quran are wise and
objective in that they take into consideration the nature of men and women as
made by God as well as the final purpose and goal human beings and the cosmos.
Therefore, your or any other person's subjective desires or opinion as to what
should be the case is irrelevant, specially when it is based on little
knowledge and low ideals and standards. Men and women are not regarded as
similar but equal. That is, each is superior to the other in certain respects
and inferior in other respects. The notion of equality does not require that
people should be equal in wealth, social rank, talents etc or that men should
have breasts and women should have penises. It means that each should be judged
in according to their similarities and differences.

Though education, organization and technology have only recently eroded the
differences between the sexes, it is still the case that men dominate the
industrial, economic, political affairs of the world as well as the law and
police which enforces the law. The status of women, therefore, depends on men.
It is only very recently, in the last 100 years that the status of women in
the West has improved. In the muslim countries conditions are still
technologically, economically, politically and educationally backwards.
Therefore, when writers from these areas are quoted their opinions will
necessarily reflect the conditions of life in which they find themselves.

The Quran also has the following instructions, ignored by the critics, which
puts a different complexion on things and show equality of the sexes and the
need for mutual respect and love :-

"O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created you from a single
soul and likewise its mate and from them twain hath spread abroad a multitude
of men and women. Be careful of your duty towards Allah from whom ye claim your
rights of one another, and towards the wombs that bare you. Lo! Allah is a
Watcher over you." 4:1

"Ye arise one from the other, so marry them with the permission of their
people, and give them their portions in kindness and equity, they being chaste
and not lecherous, and not of loose conduct. " 4:24

"He it is who did create you from a single soul, and from it made his mate that
he may take rest in her." 7:189

"They are raiments for you and ye are raiments for them." 2:187

"I suffer not the work of any worker, male or female, to be lost. Ye proceed
from one another." 3:195

"Lo! men and women who surrender unto Allah, men and women who believe, men
and women who obey, men and women who are true, men and women who persevere,
men and women who are humble, men and women who give in charity, men and
women who abstain, men and women who guard their chastity, and men and women
who remember Allah much, Allah hath prepared for them forgiveness and a vast
reward. And it becomes not a believing man or woman, when Allah and His
messenger have decided an affair for them, that they should after that claim a
say in their affair; and whoso disobeys Allah and His messenger, he is indeed
in manifest error." 33:35-36

"And they (women) have rights similar to those of men over them in equity,
though men have a degree of responsibilities ( or advantages ) over them."
2:228

"And if ye fear a breach between the twain ( the man and wife), appoint an
arbiter from his folk and an arbiter from her folk. If they desire amendment
Allah will make them of one mind." 4:34,35

"Divorce is only permissible twice: after that the parties should hold together
in equity or separate in kindness. And it is not lawful for you to take from
wives anything which you have given them; except when both fear that they may
not be able to keep within the limits imposed by Allah....And if he has
divorced her the third time then she is not lawful to him thereafter until she
has has wedded another husband." 2:229-230

"For divorced women a fair provision is a duty for the righteous." 2:241

"And covet not a thing in which Allah hath made some of you to excel others.
Unto men a fortune which they have earned and unto women a fortune which they
have earned. Envy not one another but ask Allah for His bounty." 4:32

"As for those who traduce virtuous, believing women who are careless, cursed
are they in the world and the hereafter....Vile women are for vile men, and
vile men are for vile women. Good women are for good men, and good men are for
good women; such are innocent of that which people say." 24:23, 26

"So seek them with your wealth in honest marriage and not lust. But such of
them from whom ye seek comfort, give them their portions as a duty; and there
is no crime in what you do by mutual agreement after the duty has been done.
Verily, Allah is ever Knower and Wise." 4:24

H.S.Aziz

asim...@my-deja.com

unread,

Aug 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/16/00

Salaam

The verse allows correcting a wives insubmissive attitude undoubtedly,
and this right is given upon entrance into the marriage contract. The
verse stipulates the two conditions in which the method is adopted,
beating being the last resort. Without getting into a thorough
discussion of the issue, the word for disobedience in this verse has
only been particularized for disobedience to Allah in the QURAN. It
does NOT imply disobedience to the alleged tyranny of a husband. The
Quran explains itself and the word is clear. The Quran says explicitly
the believers run their affairs through mutual consultation and it is
the husbands duty to recognize the opinions of the family.

The verse stipulates only two conditions, obedience to Allah and
protecting her own chastity for her husband. If this is violated than
the husband is prescribed this method for dealing with the issue. Thus,
there is nothing in this verse or any other which gives an impression Mr
Silas is trying to give.

As the Quran says "Save yourselves and YOUR FAMILY from the hellfire."
Islam gives the methodology for justice, and by the marriage contract
the husband takes on the burden as being leader of the family. Every
burden is on him, from providing for his wives well-being to earning for
the children. The zakat is on him, providing discipline is his duty,
managing the affairs is his duty. The wife is suppose to provide
assistance to her husband in this and not provide an attitude which
could harm the unit which is the foundation of Muslim society, and if
she commits any disobedience to Allah, or remains unchaste, strange that
the husband ignore it!

Salaam

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

SILAS778

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Aug 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/16/00

Altway2 wrote:
[[[Here is an illustration of Islam bashing.

Silas appears to be obsessed with wife-beating. He ignores all the teachings of

Islam in order to concentrate on what he thinks is negative.]]]

I criticize Islam because it should be criticized. Shouldn't a religion be
critiqued when its god tells its people to beat wives instead of love them?
Why is there no command in the Quran, equivalent to "Husbands, love your
wives", as there is in the NT?

Additionally, I am not obsessed with Islamic wife beating. I've done a
thorough study on the topic, and I've learned things from some of the Muslims
who have posted throughout this discourse.

I am also aware of the nice things Muhammad said about women. However, in the
Muslim presentation of Islam to the West, knowledgable Muslims don't tell the
whole story about the darker aspects of Islam. So, I present what Muslims
don't want non-Muslims to know. Indeed, there are many Muslims who are never
taught the material I present, because their "scholars" and teachers are
unwilling to tell the entire story.

For example, when I claimed that Muhammad struck Aisha in the chest, several
Muslims were astounded and said it never happened! Then I quoted the Hadith,
and suddenly, their prophet was now known for slapping a young girl in the
chest (probably Aisha was around 14).

I don't think that is a good example.
Islam and Muhammad deserve to be criticized for allowing men to beat their
wives.

SILAS778

unread,

Aug 17, 2000, 11:25:25 PM8/17/00

[[[Without getting into a thorough

discussion of the issue, the word for disobedience in this verse has
only been particularized for disobedience to Allah in the QURAN. It
does NOT imply disobedience to the alleged tyranny of a husband.]]]

The disobedience is relative to the husband. He determines if the wife is
being disobedient. He may think she is disobeying Allah, and his wishes, and
thus discipline her, or he may feel that she is specifically being disobedient
to his wishes and discipline her. In his eyes, her disobedience can be against
a religious command, or something he feels is very important. In general, as
long as he is not asking her to sin, or cause herself some type of harm, she
should obey him.

[[[The Quran explains itself and the word is clear.]]]

Yes, in this case the Quran is clear. In 4:34 it says that if the wife obeys
her husband, he is to no longer take action against her.

[[[The Quran says explicitly the believers run their affairs through mutual

consultation and it is the husbands duty to recognize the opinions of the

family.]]]

Where?

[[[The verse stipulates only two conditions, obedience to Allah and protecting

her own chastity for her husband. If this is violated than the husband is

prescribed this method for dealing with the issue.]]]

This is incorrect. Obedience to the husband is required by this verse. And,
who determines, "obedience to Allah"? "Men are the managers of women".

[[[Thus, there is nothing in this verse or any other which gives an impression
Mr
Silas is trying to give.]]]

Actually, there is nothing in this verse which supports your case - that the
wife is not held accountable for her obedience to her husband. She is required
to obey him, and Allah. The Quran is clear on this issue: the wife must obey
the husband. Additionally, the Hadith, and some great Muslim scholars also
stipulate that the wife must obey the husband.

The woman is placed in an inferior position in Islam, the man is superior to
her, thus he manages her. The woman is inbetween slave and free, not having
control of her own person, and her court testimony is 1/2 of a man's. In
Islamic theology, woman do not measure up to men. Thus the superior is
required to be the inferior's caretaker.

asim...@my-deja.com

unread,

Aug 17, 2000, 11:25:32 PM8/17/00

>
> I criticize Islam because it should be criticized. Shouldn't a
religion be
> critiqued when its god tells its people to beat wives instead of love
them?
> Why is there no command in the Quran, equivalent to "Husbands, love
your
> wives", as there is in the NT?

"We created for you mates that you find mercy and tenderness in them."
The verse is explicit in surah tul Rum. The New Testament forbids
divorce and considers it a great sin. One will find it extremely
difficult to find any ruling on how to handle the affairs of husbands
and wives in Christianity, and this can be considered an obvious
failure on the part of the Chrisian world to even preserve the
teachings of Jesus (AS). In fact one can say it fails to admit any
significant reality of the human condition. One can say it tolerates
the abuse of a husband over the female.

Silas forgets, or should I say conveniently, to point out the OT in
this regard also, where it says explicitly in punsihment for Eve, that
the male will rule over the female because of this sin. Islam on the
other hand, considers the male being head of the family purely on the
basis of certain characteristics peculiar to a man. As for spiritual
well being and reward, men and women stand on equal footing.

Islam as a system provides a solution towards obvious problems in the
world, such as divorce and the conduct of a family.

> For example, when I claimed that Muhammad struck Aisha in the chest,
several
> Muslims were astounded and said it never happened!

This contradicts many of the sound narrations of the Prophet's
character in respect to their wives. The well-known story of Hadhrat
Umar (R) and his wife speaking to him in a loud manner, and she
responding to look at the Prophet's wives and the way they speak to him
sometimes is testimony towards the Prophet's (S) patience with his
wives. In honesty I remember a hadeeth in which Hadhrat Aisha (R)
slapped the Prophet (S) in his chest.

There is no dark side to Islam, only practical solutions to the real
world.

Altway 2

unread,

Aug 17, 2000, 11:25:46 PM8/17/00

In article <spm4j7...@corp.supernews.com>, sila...@aol.com (SILAS778)
writes:

>I don't think that is a good example.
>Islam and Muhammad deserve to be criticized for allowing men to beat their
>wives.

Comment:-
Yes that is your opinion.

Muslims are required not to go by opinions but to judge by the Quran.
It is true, however, that this requires that they should understand it
correctly.
This is not possible for those who have a negative or hostile attitude to it.

H.S.Aziz

Altway 2

unread,

Aug 17, 2000, 11:25:22 PM8/17/00

Re: Wife beating.

Take a scenario.
A wife neglects the home and children and brings a man friend into the home.
These are not regarded by the people concerned as only disloyalty to the
husband but flouting the commands of God and of nature as made by God.

Is the husband tollerant or is he annoyed?

If he is tollerant then marriage probably means little to him. It encourages
the wife to continue the same behaviour. It also affects others and gradually
the whole society allows this behaviour, the family breaks down and the society
which is a network of families also breaks down. The new generation is brought
up in an inadequate manner, prone to neurosis and anti-social behaviour. The
Society must now be held together by formal coercive methods, by law,
bureaucracy police, courts, armies.

Is it natural to be hurt and is annoyance natural?
If he is hurt, will he remonstrate with his wife or not?
Suppose she persits. Will his anger increase?
How will he demonstrate his anger?
Will it be some kind of intellectual retaliation or an emotional one or a
physical one?
Should he beat her black and blue?
Or is to restrain himself according to Islamic law and avoid injuring her?
Or should the hurt he suffers fester in him and destroy him?
Or is the emotional or intellectual retaliation better?

The Quran is a self-consistent system such that the parts must be understood
with respect to the whole.

To understand any part we must put it into context. This applies to this
subject also.
We have three levels:-
(1) There is the immediate context surrounding the verse. This shows that the
punihment is for persistent miscreants.
(2) The intermediate context refers to all the verses dealing with a particular
topic. There may be several contexts. Many of the verses dealing with women
have been quoted already and these show equality, love and respect. The
question of retaliation is another context
(3) The greater context is provided by the Quran as a whole. This gives us a
world view which includes the notion of an underlying unity and purpose for all
things. All things are seen from this point of view which differs radically
from that of those who believe in the supremacy of their own subjective
opinions.

Islam teaches Compassion, kindness and forgiveness, and the avoidance of injury
and pain, but also Justice and Truth. Islam condemns misbehaviour such as
murder, theft, adultery and prescibes punishment for these. Punishment
certainly consists of inflicting some kind of pain. There is no doubt that it
is bad and considered so by those who suffer from it. That is why it is a
deterrent. The only justification for inflicting pain is that the overall good
is greter than the pain. Pain and pleasure are the forces which drive living
things and has produced evolution, one repels from one pole and the other
attracts to the opposite pole.

Islam, like Hebrewism teaches retaliation, an eye for an eye, but it also
teaches forgiveness:-

"Those who spend in charity of that which Allah has given them in ease and in
adversity, those who control their anger and are forgiving towards mankind;
Allah loves the good." 3:134
"A kind word with forgiveness is better than almsgiving followed by injury.
Allah is Absolute, Clement." 2:263

The islamic attitude is as follows:-

"The guerdon of an ill-deed is an ill the like thereof. But whosoever pardons
and amends, his wage is the affair of Allah. Lo! He loves not wrongdoers. And
whoso defends himself after he has suffered wrong - for such there is no blame
against them. The blame is only against those who oppress mankind and
wrongfully rebel in the earth. For such there is a painful doom. And verily
whoso is patient and forgives - lo! that verily is the steadfast heart of
things." 42:40-43

The implication is that retaliation has a social function, but forgiveness has
a spiritual reward. The result is that the law is not as rigid as is supposed.

If people cannot understand all this and prefer some illusory opinion, then
that is just too bad.

H.S.Aziz

SILAS778

unread,

Aug 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/19/00

[[[The New Testament forbids divorce and considers it a great sin.]]]

You are incorrect. The NT does allow divorce for a specific reason: "marriage
unfaithfulness".

[[[One will find it extremely difficult to find any ruling on how to handle the

affairs of husbands and wives in Christianity, and this can be considered an
obvious
failure on the part of the Chrisian world to even preserve the teachings of

Jesus.]]]

Again, take a closer look. Ephesians 5: provides much better instructions than
the Quran does: it encourages husbands to truely and deeply love their wives.
Wife beating is not an instruction in the Bible.

[[[In fact one can say it fails to admit any
significant reality of the human condition.]]]

Think again, rather it acknowledges the human condition, and encourages love
and relationship instead of dictatorial brutality.

[[[One can say it tolerates the abuse of a husband over the female.]]]

One can say anything one wants to, as before, you are wrong.

[[[Silas forgets, or should I say conveniently, to point out the OT in

this regard also, where it says explicitly in punsihment for Eve, that the male
will rule over the female because of this sin. Islam on the other hand,
considers the male being head of the family purely on the
basis of certain characteristics peculiar to a man. As for spiritual well

being and reward, men and women stand on equal footing.]]]

In Christianity, the man is given the leadership, not because the woman is
considered to be "inferior", as inbetween slave and free and needs to be
managed.
Islam also teaches that women are inferior spiritually, (Bukhari volume 1, #
301).

{{{For example, when I claimed that Muhammad struck Aisha in the chest,

several Muslims were astounded and said it never happened!}}}

[[[This contradicts many of the sound narrations of the Prophet's character in

respect to their wives. The well-known story of Hadhrat Umar and his wife

speaking to him in a loud manner, and she
responding to look at the Prophet's wives and the way they speak to him

sometimes is testimony towards the Prophet's patience with his wives. In
honesty I remember a hadeeth in which Hadhrat Aisha slapped the Prophet in his
chest.]]]

Welcome to the club of Muslims who do not know about Muhammad slapping Aisha on
the chest. It is in Sahih Muslim. You can read it in part one of my more
comprehensive article already posted.

[[[There is no dark side to Islam, only practical solutions to the real
world.]]]

I'm sure the Afghani women would totally agree with you!

asim...@my-deja.com

unread,

Aug 23, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/23/00

In article <8nm0hb$sqo$1...@samba.rahul.net>,

sila...@aol.com (SILAS778) wrote:
> [[[The New Testament forbids divorce and considers it a great sin.]]]
>
> You are incorrect. The NT does allow divorce for a specific reason:
"marriage
> unfaithfulness".

No, in Matthew Jesus is alleged to prohibit divorce. Paul supports
divorce only in cases of a very disobedient wife, and then he too puts
the blame on the story of the fall. Thus, we find once again a moral
and ethical failure on the part of the woman. The Quran on the other
hand is clear in this regard.

> Again, take a closer look. Ephesians 5: provides much better
instructions than
> the Quran does: it encourages husbands to truely and deeply love
their wives.
> Wife beating is not an instruction in the Bible.

The Quran says in numerous verses of living in mutual trust and love and
affection with one's wives. But this is not th issue here, the issue is
the practical resolutions towards solving a problem within a
relationship. The Quran only resorts to beating in extreme cases and
that to is defined within certain limits. The whole theme of surah
Nisai, before it even approaches this abounds with the proper attitudes
of display and affection with the wives. The whole foundation of
healthy relationships begins with taqwa, as defined in the first verse.
The lack of any form of guidance in the New Testament proves its
inability to solve any system. It is a common fundamental reality of
life, that men and women live to together in marriage for mutual love
and affection. But this is not the issue and every religion has
something to gain. In Hinduism, the mother's right can be considered
greater than the right of their gods.

The Old Testament abounds with the treatment of wives in repsecc to men,
>from marrying the man who raped a women, to stoning the women who was
allegedly unfaithful to death. If the man is proven to have falsely
accused his wife, his only punishment is to pay a few shekels, yet the
wife is still bound to him. Not only does a wife have to bear this
humiliation, she cannot divorce her husband. So the claim that that the
Testaments provide a sense of respect towards the status of a wife is a
mere lie and fabrication.

Matthew is explicit on the point that divorce cannot happen. Paul gives
a certain condition as stated before and remember that is Paul, not what
is ascribed to Isa (AS).

> > [[[In fact one can say it fails to admit any

> significant reality of the human condition.]]]
>
> Think again, rather it acknowledges the human condition, and
encourages love
> and relationship instead of dictatorial brutality.
>

Oh, because Silas says so without given any instance whatsoever. The
whole foundation for the state of the human condition on earth in
Christian theology is directly blamed on the woman. Thus, Christian
thinkers from Augustine, to Aquinas and Luther have held the same
opinion. And these are varying time frames representing a common
thought through the ages. The only reason modern day evangelists make
any assertions is more to do with the feminist movement and not the
religion itself.

> [[[One can say it tolerates the abuse of a husband over the female.]]]
>
> One can say anything one wants to, as before, you are wrong.

And he wants respect for his opinions by betraying trust and justice in
regards to the clear spirit of the Quran?

>
> In Christianity, the man is given the leadership, not because the
woman is
> considered to be "inferior", as inbetween slave and free and needs to
be
> managed.

The texts quoted refer to the relationship of man over women as Lord
over man. The text implies a right of 'godhood', whether or not
inetneionally or unintentionally. The Quran as the verses indicate by
itself and in its context assert the leadership. I quoted enough verses
>from both the Old and New Testament which prove the opposite of what
Silas is stating. It seems he is being influenced by the Quran and
trying to incorporate those teachings in his belief. Praise be to
Allah.

> Islam also teaches that women are inferior spiritually, (Bukhari
volume 1, #
> 301).
>

The Quran doesn't. Who cares? The hadeeth are not one hundred percent
authentic nor does Bukhari (R) guarantee a one hundred percent
transmittal rate. Not only that it contradicts the Quran. I don't even
have to go into Bukahri to even look at the hadeeth.

It was related by Abu Huraira (R), that the Prophet (S) said that there
were bad omens in three things: women, some type of horse and I forget
the other. When Hadhrat Aisha (R) heard this she said Abu Huraira was
mistaken because he came late to the masjid. The wife of the Prophet
(S) whose house was attached to the masjid said the Prophet (S) said
that The people of Jahiliyya believed that "there were three bad
omens...."

>
> Welcome to the club of Muslims who do not know about Muhammad slapping
Aisha on
> the chest. It is in Sahih Muslim.

I have saheeh Muslim, so if you provide me the number and volume I would
be obliged.

>
> I'm sure the Afghani women would totally agree with you!
>

And I'm sure the feminist women agree with Christianity, Paul,
Tertullian, Luther, orthodox Jews and others. With your alleged
intellectual prowess, you surely must know that culture and religion are
not the same thing. The purdah of Afghani women is there inherent
tradition, and in fact was already existing in pre_islamic tradition.
By the way, the Afghani's are from among the lost tribes of Israel.

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