The Personality of Uthamn (Part 1: Was there no better man?)
M. ElRabaa
> ...
>There is a rule among sunni people that:
>
> Those who have participated in Hudaibiyah are saved forever.
> They will not lie on prophet, and they will not do great sins.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
When somebody wants to talk on behalf of muslims, the least he should do
is make sure he knows what they believe in. No muslim believe that any
other muslim will not commit sins (big or small) except the Prophet alihi
assalato wassalam.
>The same is sometimes told upon those who participated on the battle
>of Badr. Let us accept these two rules as long as you are reading this
>articles.
>(Fascinating!: As if they are sinless people.)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
????
>Utman, the third Caliph after the death of the prophet,
>
>1)- did not participate in the battel of Badr,
I wonder why did not Kamran provide the reason !
>2)- fled away in the battle of Uhud,
Most of the muslims did, but Allah forgave them (see surat Ali-Imran from
130 to 175).
>3)- failed to attend the Ar Ridwan Pledge (Hudaibiya Plege) and did not
> witness it.
Now this is the greatest injustice on that sahabi (RA) ... Again why did
not Kamran tell us whay Autman was not there ??? Autman (RA) was the
Prophet's messenger to Quraish ! Hes IS the reason for the 'Bia'atul-Riduan'
or 'the covenant of Riduan' (of course Kamran, wrongly said "Hudibiah Pledge"
but I gues he is just insisting on his ignorance of details! OR truth !).
When Autman (RA) was late the muslims thought Quraish harmed him and that is
why they made the covenent with the Prophet alihi assalato wassalam. Not
only that, but the Prophet alihi assalato wassalam put his left hand on his
right hand and said 'This is Autman's covenent' and that was something no
other sahabi can claim; the Prophet alihi assalato wassalam acted on Autman's
behalf in that covenent (this show Autman (RA) place among muslims, not to
mention marrying two of the Prophet's daughters, one after the other (the
first one died then he married the other)).
Of course I'm going to ignore the 'Algorithm' :):):):)
Muhammad Elrabaa
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| |
| subhanak alahoma wa behamdik "All Glory and Brase are due to my Lord, |
| Allah", ash-hadu ala ilaha ila ant "I here by testify that there is |
| no God but you (Allah)", astaghfiruka wa atobo elik "I ask for Your |
| forgiveness and I repent to You". This is a prayer a muslim is adviced |
| to say it when he end a discussion or a meeting with others, so if he |
| said something wrong Allah may forgive him. |
| |
==========================================================================
HAREB SAEED ALI
kaa...@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca writes:
>----------------------------
>Thanks to the moderators who have provided a safer environment for my
>article. I am asking readers to please highlight any part of this
>article where it is:
> 1)- A personal attack
> 2)- An insult
>Thanks for your kindness.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The ahaadith in this article have been taken from:
>The translation of the meaning of Sahih Al-Bukhari
>Arabic-English
>Dr. Mohammad Muhsin Khan
>Islamic University, Medina Al-Munawwara
>Kaze Publications.
>1529 North Wells Street, Chicago. ILL.60610(USA)
>(3rd revised, 1977)(4th revised Edition, March 1979)
>Call Number(In library of Waterloo university): BP135.A124E54
>-------------------------------------
>There is a rule among sunni people that:
> Those who have participated in Hudaibiyah are saved forever.
> They will not lie on prophet, and they will not do great sins.
>The same is sometimes told upon those who participated on the battle
>of Badr. Let us accept these two rules as long as you are reading this
>articles.
>(Fascinating!: As if they are sinless people.)
Shia consider the twleve Imams (theirs) sinless. We do not
consider the sahaba'h sinless. Only the prophet is without
a sin. Even Ali and ahli albait are not exempt (from the
rest of the sahabah).
The fascinating thing to me is that you distrbute (sinless
attribute) on whom you like and do not accept that those
sahabah whom Allah (JWA) himself pardoned (look Surah
Ali Imran) and/or was pleased with - look surah Muhammad and
altaubah as well as others, mau go to Jannah on Allah's
promise. Mind you , Jannah is not only for a sinless person.
>Utman, the third Caliph after the death of the prophet,
>1)- did not participate in the battel of Badr,
You already put the answer to this at the bottom of you article
(albeit unhighlighted). I assume it is a problematic issue
for shia'h that Uthman was married to two of the daughters
of rasoolul Allah. When one daughter was in her last days
before death (ill), uthman was with this hounorable lady attending
her. In badr, only 314 sahabah participated, and there was not
an official military call. When the prophet (PBUH) heard about
the news of the caravan he told the sahabah who were readily able
to go with him (i.e. not those who have to go baclk to Madinah
to get their camels) to do so. Uthman (by the instruction
of his father in law) stayed with the prophet's daughter (RAA).
Moreover, I take the above statement as an insult to the prophet
because if the prophet (SAAW) treated Uthman like one who did,
why should you belittle the decision of the prophet and not agree.
Uthamn was given bounty as if he was in Badr, because he participated
in the whole ordeal (by obeying the prophet and sitting with his
wife - the prophet daughter - during her final moments on earth).
So there you go. That is one insult. I wish you insulted me or
personally attaked me but not the prophet (PBUH) and his judjment.
>2)- fled away in the battle of Uhud,
Fr your reminder (not information), there is an Ayah in surat
ali Imran sating "Those who turned away among you
when the two crowds met were only caused to do so by some
of what they have commited - and Allah has FORGIVEN them" -
my own translation -figure out the ayah number, etc.
We should be very polite when talking about the best generation,
the generation of Rasul Allah (SAAW). They were not meant to be
angels walking on earth, but a best example of a human generation
who had ups and downs and a way fro us to benifit of the different
lesson taking place in their time. E.g. the battle of Uhd is one
of the greatest lessons for the whole Ummah (active ummah) t
throughout history - the expense was 70 killed among the sahabah
and the total dispersion of the army of the prophet (SAWS).
So to forsake the expression given in the Quran (tawallaw = turned
away - dispersed) and use instead an unrespctful term - fled away
does not sound polite to me.
As I said before, you put these questions in the top of your
article and highlight them, and put potentail answer in the bottom.
I wonder what is the wisdom of the whole slandering campaign?
>3)- failed to attend the Ar Ridwan Pledge (Hudaibiya Plege) and did not
> witness it.
Not true. A lie. What do you mean failed to attend. The whole
problem was because he was kept late in Meccah by the infidels
and the prophet summoned the sahabah to pledge to go and fight
them because of what the muslims thought was a treachury on the
part of the infidels. The prophet pledged for Uthman (Radhia
Allahu Anhu) with his own hand. The matter was resolved and
no more military action was taken when Uthman returned safely
from Meccah.
So to say he failed carries a certain negative and misleading
connotation. Thank you. It only uncovers you guys to sincere
muslims.
>Begin (the algorithm)
>1)- If you think that the address of this hadith is not correct,
> or it is twisted, or it has been intentionally mistranslated,
> Please bring your version of the hadith, and your translation
> along with your address of the ahadith. Thanks.
>2)- Please read the following hadith. The same is also narrated in
> Volumn 5, Hadith number 395. Please read this hadith carefully, and
> tell us if you are satisfied with the answers of Ibn-Umar in this
> hadith.
> In any case (Yes/No), please evaluate the position of Uthman
> among the sahabah of the prophet. For example, how do you
> compare Uthman with those who actually participated in the
> battle of Badr, who did not fly away in Uhud, and who
> participated in Hudaibyiah. Please give me your explanations
> such that I understand your feelings toward him.
>3)- Please name all of the sahabah who did all the following three
> things at the same time:
> a)- They did participate in Badr,
> b)- They did not fly away in Uhud,
> c)- They participated in Hudaibiyah.
>(I know how many participated in one of them individually. But there
>are only a few who did all three together. Please name them, and bring
>your references as well. Thanks.)
I will name some:
Al Zubair bn Alwaam (ABu Abdillah) the husband of Asma the son
of Safiiah Bint Abdil Mttalib -- May Allah be pleased with them all.
Talhah Bin Ubaid Illah - Abu Muhammad - the Hawary of rasullulah who
sat for the prophet to climb the mountain on his balk, and acted
as a shield for the prophet until his hand was paralyzed.
Umar Ibn ALkhattab - The third best person after the prophet, Abu Bakr
in this Ummah.
.. Of course there also Ali (RAA). On the other hand, hamzah(RAA)
did not attend RIdhwan -- does not matter to me - how about you.
As for references, I am not sitting on a mound of them and I dont
have dedicated resources as you do, but I am sure you yourself will
be kind enough to do a quick search on your databases and pick them out.
>4)- Were the people of [3] alive in the time Umar was killed or not?
>If yes, which one would you have chosen as your caliph?
I would have chosen Uthamn, because the opinion of Abdulrahman and
Ahli Ishurah is the best. After Uthman I would have chosen ALi -
no doubt about it.
>5)- End of the algorithm.
For YI, It is recomended in the Quran and Al SUnnah (if you care
to take it) that the good generations after the sahabah will say
"Rabanna Ighfir Lana Wa Li-Ikhwanina Allathena Sabaqoona Bil
Iman wa La Tajal Fi Qoloobina Ghillan Lil Latheen Amanu - Rabbana
Innaka Raoofur Raheem." -- Try to be one of those. Salam.
> -------
> 5. 48:
> -------
> Narrated 'Uthman:
>
> (the son of Muhib) An Egyptian who came and performed the Hajj to the
> Kaba saw some people sitting. He enquire, "Who are these people?"
> Somebody said, "They are the tribe of Quraish." He said, "Who is the
> old man sitting amongst them?" The people replied, "He is 'Abdullah
> bin 'Umar." He said, "O Ibn Umar! I want to ask you about something;
> please tell me about it. Do you know that 'Uthman fled away on the day
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> (of the battle) of Uhud?" Ibn 'Umar said, "Yes." The (Egyptian) man
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^
> said, "Do you know that 'Uthman was absent on the day (of the battle)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> of Badr and did not join it?" Ibn 'Umar said, "Yes." The man said, "Do
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^
> you know that he failed to attend the Ar Ridwan pledge and did not
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> witness it (i.e. Hudaibiya pledge of allegiance)?" Ibn 'Umar said,
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> "Yes." The man said, "Allahu Akbar!" Ibn 'Umar said, "Let me explain
> ^^^^^
> to you (all these three things). As for his flight on the day of Uhud,
> I testify that Allah has excused him and forgiven him; and as for his
> absence from the battle of Badr, it was due to the fact that the
> daughter of Allah's Apostle was his wife and she was sick then.
> Allah's Apostle said to him, "You will receive the same reward and
> share (of the booty) as anyone of those who participated in the battle
> of Badr (if you stay with her).' As for his absence from the Ar-Ridwan
> pledge of allegiance, had there been any person in Mecca more
> respectable than 'Uthman (to be sent as a representative). Allah's
> Apostle would have sent him instead of him. No doubt, Allah's Apostle
> had sent him, and the incident of the Ar-Ridwan pledge of Allegiance
> happened after 'Uthman had gone to Mecca. Allah's Apostle held out his
> right hand saying, 'This is 'Uthman's hand.' He stroke his (other)
> hand with it saying, 'This (pledge of allegiance) is on the behalf of
> 'Uthman.' Then Ibn 'Umar said to the man, 'Bear (these) excuses in
> mind with you.'
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Would you kindly please:
> 1)- Save this article,
> 2)- Verify the references,
> 3)- Think about them,
> 4)- Read a few books to find the truth,
> 5)- Talk with others to strengthen your understanding.
>-----------------------------
>To those who are willing to have a safe and scientific discussion:
> Would you kindly please:
> 1)- Use "f" key when replying to my article, and quote
> the exact part where you are referring to.
> 2)- Your reply MUST be insult-free.
> 3)- References must be given in their full address.
> 4)- Please kindly write your reply by explainng your points
> clearly, and possibly withing some examples.
> Besides, please kindly do not say something which is
> not supported by your article you are sending or you have
> sent before.
> 5)- Please kindly do not bring your personal matters,
> avoid anger, and write with no private intention.
>Thanks a lot.
>Note: I have the right not to answer otherwise.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>May Allah bless you all.
kaa...@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca
> From: ha...@spot.Colorado.EDU (HAREB SAEED ALI)
> >(Fascinating!: As if they are sinless people.)
>
> Shia consider the twleve Imams (theirs) sinless. We do not
> consider the sahaba'h sinless. Only the prophet is without
> a sin. Even Ali and ahli albait are not exempt (from the
> rest of the sahabah).
>
1)- I do not care if shiat believe in 12, or 100 Imams in this
article. I do not care if there exists any shiat at all. My article
has a very specific title, and talks about that alone. Please do not
expect me to talk about this issue in this article. If you wanted to
write anything about being sinless, you could have done that under
another article titled as:
Fundamental believes of shiat-Ithna-ashari(Ijtehadyyon) (Part 2)
Or perhaps, as "Esmat (protection) In Bukhari". Anway:
> The fascinating thing to me is that you distrbute (sinless
> attribute) on whom you like and do not accept that those
> sahabah whom Allah (JWA) himself pardoned (look Surah
> Ali Imran) and/or was pleased with - look surah Muhammad and
> altaubah as well as others, mau go to Jannah on Allah's
> promise. Mind you , Jannah is not only for a sinless person.
2)- This aayah referred by sunni brothers several times. The aayah is
perfect as it was revealed by Allah, but YOUR understanding from the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
aayah has so many BUGs which need at least three 300-lines articles to
cover. Sorry that I am not going to do that right now. You want the
heaven, you go ahead and find out about it.
3)- You say that the sahabah are not sinless. This is a point which I
would like to address:
Since they are sinless, would you be kind to answer the following
questions:
1)- Had they ever lied on behalf of the prophet?
2)- Had they ever done great sins such as killing, Zina,
and so on.
3)- Had they ever been treacherous to the prophet?
4)- Had they ever added to islamic laws?
5)- Had they ever prohibited islamic laws?
My answers to the above questions will be with references. I would
like you to show me your evidences if you want to say NO to any part.
Please support your answers. Thanks. Please give us some examples to
realize what you mean by "sinless".
>
> >Utman, the third Caliph after the death of the prophet,
>
> >1)- did not participate in the battel of Badr,
>
> You already put the answer to this at the bottom of you article
> (albeit unhighlighted).
I see that you and others have some little problem to understand the
questions in the hadith. Let me first analyze them for you. Then I
will give a reference to see the positive sentence as well.
1)- Do you know that 'Uthman fled away on the day (of the battle) of
Uhud? Ibn 'Umar said, "Yes."
What do you understand from this conversation? The a person asks
if 2 + 2 becomes 10, and the other person says YES, which means
what? It means that this person believes that 2+2 is 10. Now, let see
the above question and answer again. If you carefully open your eyes,
you will see that:
Ibn Umar is saying that Uthman fled away on the battle of Uhud.
Another part:
2)- "Do you know that 'Uthman was absent on the day (of the battle)
of Badr and did not join it?" Ibn 'Umar said, "Yes."
The same conclusion will be true. Uthman was absent on the day of the
battle of Badr, and Ibn Umar is testifying that.
3)- "Do you know that he failed to attend the Ar Ridwan pledge and did
not witness it (i.e. Hudaibiya pledge of allegiance)?" Ibn 'Umar
said, "Yes." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Do you understand what YES means? It means that:
Yes, Uthman failed to attend the Ar Ridwa pledge and did not
witness it.
(Just look at the highlighted part, and understand that it was called
Hudaibiya pledge as well. This is the translation of the translator of
that book, and not mine.)
Now, you do not want to easily accept my simple logic, do you? If not,
read the following and see that it is in positive sentence now.
-------
4.359:
-------
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
'Uthman did not join the Badr battle because he was married to one of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the daughters of Allah's Apostle and she was ill. So, the Prophet said
to him. "You will get a reward and a share (from the war booty)
similar to the reward and the share of one who has taken part in the
Badr battle."
It is really unfair that I have to bring another reference to prove
that the positive meaning of the conversation of an egyption and Ibn
Umar is valid, and none of you, so far, have brought any reference in
your articles. It is really unfair.
> When one daughter was in her last days
> before death (ill), uthman was with this hounorable lady attending
> her. In badr, only 314 sahabah participated, and there was not
> an official military call. When the prophet (PBUH) heard about
> the news of the caravan he told the sahabah who were readily able
> to go with him (i.e. not those who have to go baclk to Madinah
> to get their camels) to do so. Uthman (by the instruction
> of his father in law) stayed with the prophet's daughter (RAA).
>
> Moreover, I take the above statement as an insult to the prophet
> because if the prophet (SAAW) treated Uthman like one who did,
> why should you belittle the decision of the prophet and not agree.
>
I have read and I have known your answers myself too. You did not need
to bother them again. You did not understand my question at all. My
question is that whatever Uthman's reasons was not to participate in
the battle of Badr, how do you evaluate him among others who
participated in the battle of Badr? You want me to bring more
references, that is fine:
-------
5.290:
-------
Narrated Ibn Abbas:
The believers who failed to join the Ghazwa of Badr and those who took
part in it are not equal (in reward).
There is an aayah revealed in connection with Ali-Ibn-Abitaleeb, and
he was given a special status. Read the following, and compare Uthman,
on whom no aayah (in regard to Badr's battle) was revealed, with
Ali-Ibn-Abitaleeb. That is very simple to understand, isn't it?
-------
5.304:
-------
Narrated Abu Mijlaz:
From Qais bin Ubad: 'Ali bin Abi Talib said, "I shall be the first man
to kneel down before (Allah), the Beneficent to receive His judgment
on the day of Resurrection (in my favor)." Qais bin Ubad also said,
"The following Verse was revealed in their connection:--
"These two opponents believers and disbelievers) Dispute with each
other About their Lord." (22.19) Qais said that they were those who
fought on the day of Badr, namely, Hamza, 'Ali, 'Ubaida or Abu 'Ubaida
bin Al-Harith, Shaiba bin Rabi'a, 'Utba and Al-Wahd bin Utba.
-------
5.305:
-------
Narrated Abu Dhar:
The following Holy Verse:--
"These two opponents (believers & disbelievers) dispute with each
other about their Lord," (22.19) was revealed concerning six men
from Quraish, namely, 'Ali, Hamza, 'Ubaida bin Al-Harith; Shaiba bin
Rabi'a, 'Utba bin Rabi'a and Al-Walid bin 'Utba.
-------
5.306:
-------
Narrated 'Ali:
The following Holy Verse:-- "These two opponents (believers and
disbelievers) dispute with each other about their Lord." (22.19) was
revealed concerning us.
-------
5.307:
-------
Narrated Qais bin Ubad:
I heard Abu Dhar swearing that these Holy Verses were revealed in
connection with those six persons on the day of Badr.
-------
5.308:
-------
Narrated Qais:
I heard Abu Dhar swearing that the following Holy verse:-- "These two
opponents (believers and disbelievers) disputing with each other about
their Lord," (22.19) was revealed concerning those men who fought on
the day of Badr, namely, Hamza, 'Ali, Ubaida bin Al-Harith, Utba and
Shaiba----the two sons of Rabi'a-- and Al-Walid bin 'Utba.
The same goes to Hudaibyiah. I have read the history as well as the
hadith, my dear. I want you to explicity prove to me that the aayah
regarding the Ar-Ridhwan where God was pleased with them is also
APPLICABLE on Uthman. I do not want to read your imagination. I need
references as I have given in several articles.
The same goes to those who did not fly away in the battle of Uhud.
> So there you go. That is one insult. I wish you insulted me or
> personally attaked me but not the prophet (PBUH) and his judjment.
>
I am sorry to tell you and others. You do not understand what "insult"
means at all. I fail to understand why SOME of my sunni brothers as
well as SOME of women do not understand this word correctly.
>
>
> >2)- fled away in the battle of Uhud,
>
> Fr your reminder (not information), there is an Ayah in surat
> ali Imran sating "Those who turned away among you
> when the two crowds met were only caused to do so by some
> of what they have commited - and Allah has FORGIVEN them" -
> my own translation -figure out the ayah number, etc.
You even did not bother to look at the holy book of Allah. Perhaps you
are talking about Chapter[3], verses [152] and [155]. You need to read
the verses from 152 to 156. I wish I was dead and was not among those
people. God forgives people. That is his mercy. God has forgiven
several sahabah during the life time of the prophet. God has forgiven
those three who fled away in the war of Tabuk. Do you wish you could
have been one of those three who did not follow the order of the
prophet and finally Allah forgave them?
However, my question wasn't this even. I asked you to compare those who
fled away (or dispresed) in Uhud with those who did not fly away for me.
How do you value them?
> >3)- failed to attend the Ar Ridwan Pledge (Hudaibiya Plege) and did not
> > witness it.
>
> Not true. A lie. What do you mean failed to attend.
A typical person to me.
What I meant was that he physically was not in the area where people
gave their hands to the prophet, and I wanted you to tell me with your
proves that whether the aayah of Ar-Ridhwan is applicable on him or not?
If yes, please bring your evidences from Sahih Bukhari or Muslim.
Thanks.
I am aware of the reason he couldn't make it. I want you to prove to
me that he was counted among the sahabah who gave their hands to the
prophet on that day, and he was one of those whom God was pleased
with.
For example, You have seen that the prophet gave bounty to Uthman
since he was awarded as those who participated in the Battle of Badr.
I would like you to give us a reference where the prophet tells Uthman
that :
Uthamn, you have been rewarded as those who participated in
Ar-Ridhwan.
It would be nice.
> As for references, I am not sitting on a mound of them and I dont
> have dedicated resources as you do, but I am sure you yourself will
> be kind enough to do a quick search on your databases and pick them out.
That is pitty. You are sitting on a mopund of them. You just do not
know where to put your feet.
> I assume it is a problematic issue for shia'h that Uthman was
> married to two of the daughters of rasoolul Allah.
And I do not understand why you do not understand that marriage with
two daughter of the prophet does not help Uthman too much. Since I am
sitting on a mound of sources, I am going to give another one to help
you to realize that the relationship does not come with dry names.
Noah had a son, and God, himself, announced that this "son" is not
any person related to Noah. He said that he should not be counted
among the relatives of Noah. I do not understand why you do not
understand such simple verses in Quran.
-------
4.706:
-------
Narrated Jubair bin Mut'im:
'Uthman bin Affan went (to the Prophet) and said, "O Allah's Apostle!
You gave property to Bani Al-Muttalib and did not give us, although we
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and they are of the same degree of relationship to you." The Prophet
said, "Only Bani Hashim and Bani Al Muttalib are one thing (as regards
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
family status)."
I hope that can see and understand that the prophet treated Bani
Hashim and Bani Al Muttalib differently than Uthman and his family.
Mazen Mokhtar
and it is my intent to ignore most of them in the future, in sha'a Allah.
Unfortunately, you are sowing fitnah. A combination of misquoting,
mistranslating and misrepresenting contexts lends your "algorithms" an
appearance of sensibility which they lack. You have no declared point to your
arguments, but a direction is clearly emerging.
I urge you to fear Allah and to join the regular exchange of ideas in this
group. You can bring the same arguments in the spirit of inquiry or
discussion, but don't twist facts in a way that invites people to misunderstand
Islam.
>2)- Please read the following hadith. The same is also narrated in
> Volumn 5, Hadith number 395. Please read this hadith carefully, and
> tell us if you are satisfied with the answers of Ibn-Umar in this
> hadith.
The answers are clearly satisfactory. In the case of Uhud, all the
sahaba who fled on that terrible day were forgiven. Remember that the
Muslims had already won the battle, and were not prepared for a fight when
the kuffar returned. Many were no longer equipped.
Also, who are you to fault people for something that Allah himself has
forgiven?
Finally, the title suggests that `Uthman may not have been the best
person for khilafah. While only Allah knows who the best choice really is,
`Uthman is no ordinary Muslim. The best person to lead the Muslims is not
necessarily the most knowledgeable, (or the most pious, though this was
not an issue in the case of `Uthman). The best person is the one best able
to perform the task at hand, which is leadership in this case. Abu-Dharr
_might_ have been more pious than Khalid ibn AlWaleed, but he certainly was
not the best person to lead Muslim armies to battle.
It is dishonest to carefully select certain facts about a person in order
to misrepresent that person in accordance to one's wishes. `Uthman never
spared an oppotunity to use his wealth to serve the Muslims. He once prepared
a Muslim army for one battle with his wealth. He could have lived a wealthy
man until he died, but he prefered Allah over material gain. `Uthman was
Muhammad's son-in-law _twice_; and while people's value is determined
by who they are, not by who they marry, it is a clear indication on how
Muhammad (PBUH) viewed `Uthman.
> In any case (Yes/No), please evaluate the position of Uthman
> among the sahabah of the prophet.
It would be extremely arrogant of me to attempt such an evaluation. It
would also be unethical from an Islamic standpoint.
>For example, how do you
> compare Uthman with those who actually participated in the
> battle of Badr, who did not fly away in Uhud, and who
> participated in Hudaibyiah. Please give me your explanations
> such that I understand your feelings toward him.
Is a person's worth completely determined by these three events?
>3)- Please name all of the sahabah who did all the following three
> things at the same time:
> a)- They did participate in Badr,
> b)- They did not fly away in Uhud,
> c)- They participated in Hudaibiyah.
>(I know how many participated in one of them individually. But there
>are only a few who did all three together. Please name them, and bring
>your references as well. Thanks.)
Thank you very much, but you'll be in a position to hand out exercises
only after you have something to teach _and_ after people accept you as
their teacher; and then only to your student. [And while I'm at it, write me
a 5000 word paper on what Islam says about honesty.]
>4)- Were the people of [3] alive in the time Umar was killed or not?
>If yes, which one would you have chosen as your caliph?
The people of that time and place are better judges of who is best fit to
lead them.
Mazen Mokhtar
Mazen Mokhtar
Baha'i myths regarding sahaba are contrary to Islam. If you are going to
present them, then explain where you are coming from.
>My answers to the above questions will be with references. I would
>like you to show me your evidences if you want to say NO to any part.
>Please support your answers. Thanks. Please give us some examples to
>realize what you mean by "sinless".
I can't believe this. The brother was arguing that the sahaba are NOT
sinless.
>You even did not bother to look at the holy book of Allah. Perhaps you
>are talking about Chapter[3], verses [152] and [155]. You need to read
>the verses from 152 to 156. I wish I was dead and was not among those
>people.
You are really going too far. Verses 152-154 are not talking about those
who turned away on Uhud. Read verse 154 if you want to know who they are
talking about. I hope you are not purposefully misrepresenting the Qur'an.
>And I do not understand why you do not understand that marriage with
>two daughter of the prophet does not help Uthman too much. Since I am
>sitting on a mound of sources, I am going to give another one to help
>you to realize that the relationship does not come with dry names.
>Noah had a son, and God, himself, announced that this "son" is not
>any person related to Noah. He said that he should not be counted
>among the relatives of Noah. I do not understand why you do not
>understand such simple verses in Quran.
Don't you agree there is a difference between a bad son, and a person
who is accepted by choice _twice_ as a son-in-law? The Messenger (PBUH)
said roughly: "If we had a third one, we would have married her to `Uthman."
Do you think you are attracting people by your misleading "algorithms" ? They
are neither stimulating nor interesting. They are only confusing.
Mazen Mokhtar
"Wa idha qeela lahum la tufsidu fil 'ardi qalu innama naHnu muSliHun"
kaa...@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca
> From: mm...@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mazen Mokhtar)
> Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
> Kaamran, I have refrained this far from answering your articles but
> once, and it is my intent to ignore most of them in the future, in
> sha'a Allah.
> Unfortunately, you are sowing fitnah. A combination of misquoting,
> mistranslating and misrepresenting contexts lends your "algorithms" an
> appearance of sensibility which they lack. You have no declared point
> to your arguments, but a direction is clearly emerging.
Would somebody please translate my previous article in reply to Hareb
and other articles to our friend, Mazen Mokhtar. I do not think it is
advised to repeat the very same article for him.
Also, would somebody please translate his article for me that :
1)- Is he asking me to stop sending articles in shiat-sunni
differences?
If yes, I already announced it last Wednesday. Perhaps,
somebody should awaken him.
2)- Is he asking me to continue sending such articles:
With my pleasure.