Shiite and Sunni Scholars
whad...@kean.ucs.mun.ca
>
> Assalam aleikum fellow muslims,
>
> Wael wrote:
>
>>the Quran talks about Allah being pleased with the believers who made
>>Bay`a to the Prophet 'under the tree'
>
> "Lakad radia Allah an AL MU'MININ iz yubayiounaka tahta ash-shajara fa alima
> ma fi kulubihim fa anzala ASSAKINATA ALEIHIM wa athabahum fathan kariba".
> Surah Al-Fath, Ayah 18.
>
> This Ayah specifies only AL MU'MINUN from those who gave the Prophet(sAaas)
> Bayaa under the Tree, and it's clear that it did not include
> Al-Munafikin who assisted this Bayaa like Abdullah Ben Oubay and
> Aous Ben Khoula.
>
OK, let's look again at the language : There is a difference
between : ith yubayiounaka tahta ash-shajara and saying allatheena
baya`ouka tahtal ash-shajara.... In short, the usage of 'ith' ( when,
or as they were) indicates that the Mu'mineen were the majority, and
while there wre some elements of munafeqeen, this does not take away
from the Iman of the rest of the sahaba.
>>Abu Bakr Al-Siddiq ra when he was in the Cave
>>with the Prophet pbuh
>
> "Iz kala li sahibihi la tahzan inna allah maana fa anzalna
ALEIHI ASSAKINATA ...."
>
> Allah(SWT) always supports the side of His Prophet(sAaas).
> So, in this Ayah, Allah(SWT) did not say "anzalna ALEIHIMA
ASSAKINATA" (Both the
> Prophet(sAaas) and Abu Bakr) and this is a proof that Abu Bakr was
not from those
> mentioned in the first Ayah "AL MU'MININ .... anzala ASSAKINATA ALEIHIM".
Hardly : as I mentione before, and I will mention again : the
Qur'an stated that the Prophet said : inna allaha ma`ana : Allah is
with US i.e. ME AND YOU ie BOTH the Prophet and Abu Bakr. The qur'an
could have just as easily said : inna allah ma`ee : Allah is with ME,
as the Prophet used to say in a number of occasions : One of which was
sul-H al-Hudaybiya referred to in the above verse .. Umar ibn
al-Khattab went to the prohpet and asked him about the signing of the
peace ( he wasn't happy with it). The Prophet said : I'm Allah's
messenger and he will not abandon me". This does not negate the fact
that there were a lot of people who were believers with the prophet in
Hudaybiya, as the Qur'anic verse indicates, nor does it mean that
Allah will not support these believers, but will only support the
Prophet.
As for Sayeddina Abu Bakr Al-Siddue radia allah `anhu, I'll
talk about that later, inshallah.
Wassalamu `alaikum
Wael
]
Ali Atie
Assalam aleikum,
A brother asked me by e-mail two questions, and i'd like to share them with you.
>"Was Hazrat Ali (R.A.) Divinely ordained to be the Successior of the
>Prophet (S.W.S.) or should we accept the results of the election
>by which Hazrat Abubaker (R.A.) was chosen to be the first Caliph.
This is the major point of disagreement. There is another point which
has a direct effect on our life which is:
"Are all sahaba fair, and could we take hadiths from all of them ?"
I have posted an article justifying (from Qu'ran and Sunii hadiths)
the Shia point of view, and i am waiting for an answer.
If you're not convinced from these arguments, how could you explain
the behavior of Muawieih, amr ben-al-ass, and others. We all know that
Muawieih provoked "Fitnah" among muslims, and that he was responsible
of killing hundreds of muslims among them Ammar ben Yasser and
we also know that he said when he was informed about Imam al Hassan(as)
death: : "Inna Allah lahu Junudan min assal", so how he knew that Al-Imam
was killed by poisoned honey if it's not him who did that?
What is also shameful is the insulting of Al-Imam Ali(as) from mosques during
Muawieih Khilafah and his son Yazid (60 years). Really, I don't understand
how could Sunni scholars be based on faireness of all sahaba after that.
>Do you agree with the above statement?. If you agree can you give me
>hadith which supports the Shia point of view?. Also some historical
>facts supporting the Shia side?.
from the Qu'ran:
---------------
"Innama Walyoukum Allah wa rasuluhu wa ALLAZINA AMANU allazina
yukimuna assalata wa yu'tuna azzakata WA HUM RAKI'OUN"
This aya according to Sunni and Shia (sahih muslim,..) came down to Imam
Ali(as) when he was praying; Al-Imam heard a poor man begging near him, so
he made him a sign for taking his silver ring.
This is a proof that Al-Imam is Walyouna after Allah(SWT) and the
Prophet(sAaas).
"Ya ayuha Rasulu balligh ma ounzila ileika min rabbika fa in lam
tafaal fama ballaghta risalatuhu wallahu yaasimuka mina an-nass"
this Ayah came dowm to the Prophet(sAaas) when He was comming back from His
last Hajj. This Ayah is very important since It said that the Prophet(sAaas)
had to say something from Allah(SWT) and if He did not do it His mission of
Messenger of Allah(SWT) would not be accomplished.
Then the Prophet said: " Man kuntu maoulah fa haza Ali maoulah, Allahuma
wali man walah wa 'adi man 'adah, ...".
from hadiths:
-------------
the above one.
"Inni tarikun fikum ath-thakalein, in tamassaktum bihumah falan tadalluh
baadi abadan, kitabu Allah(SWT) wa atrati Ahl-Beiti"
I recall also a hadith where sahabi Salman Al-farsi asked the Prophet(sAaas):
"Each Prophet has a successor, then who is your successor?"
The Prophet(sAaas) replied to him: "who is the successor of Mussa(as)?"
so Salamn said: "Yushaa ben nun", so the Prophet(sAaas) ask him
"why he was", then Salamn said: "since he was the most qualified", then
the Prophet(sAaas) said: "Ali(as) is My successor".
Some Sunni scholars interpreted this hadith that successor means
successor in his family. But this could not be interpreted in this manner
since Salman began his question with "Each Prophet has a successor" and
not "Each Father or Family responsible has a successor". Another point
is that The Prophet(sAaas) told Salman that "the most qualified" should
be a successor.
There are other hadiths where the Prophet(sAaas) said that Ali is his
Successor, but they are also interpreted as successor in His family.
I hope this is enough for the moment.
BTW: all hadiths are approved by at least one Sunni sholar.
-----------------------------------------------------
rached
Ali could you please post the references for those hadiths you
last quoted in your last article ? Because I cannot accept them as
sayings of the prophet (PBUH) unless they are referenced and approved by
scholars as Sahih Hadiths. Not every hyadith reported in a book could be
taken.
As we all know the most authentic books of hadith are Bukhari, THEN
Muslim THEN the other books. Also since those books have been published
many Ulema have gone through the chain of the narrators that transmitted
these hadiths and purified the Sunnah from the fabricated or weak
hadiths. If anybody wants to get a menaingful reference from a book on
hadiths (if it is not Bukhari or Muslim) then you'de better read a
version that has been checked (Tahkik) by a Aalem of Hadith.
rached
ah...@swift.cs.tcd.ie
[Mod note: This article was attributed to
ah...@swift.cs.tcd.ie by rac...@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu]
In <18DEC199...@iago.caltech.edu> a...@oaxaca.inria.fr (Ali Atie) writes:
>Assalam aleikum fellow muslims,
>Wael wrote:
>>the Quran talks about Allah being pleased with the believers who made
>>Bay`a to the Prophet 'under the tree'
>"Lakad radia Allah an AL MU'MININ iz yubayiounaka tahta ash-shajara fa alima
>ma fi kulubihim fa anzala ASSAKINATA ALEIHIM wa athabahum fathan kariba".
> Surah Al-Fath, Ayah 18.
>This Ayah specifies only AL MU'MINUN from those who gave the Prophet(sAaas)
>Bayaa under the Tree, and it's clear that it did not include
>Al-Munafikin who assisted this Bayaa like Abdullah Ben Oubay and
>Aous Ben Khoula.
>>Abu Bakr Al-Siddiq ra when he was in the Cave
>>with the Prophet pbuh
>"Iz kala li sahibihi la tahzan inna allah maana fa anzalna ALEIHI ASSAKINATA ...."
>Allah(SWT) always supports the side of His Prophet(sAaas).
>So, in this Ayah, Allah(SWT) did not say "anzalna ALEIHIMA ASSAKINATA" (Both the
>Prophet(sAaas) and Abu Bakr) and this is a proof that Abu Bakr was not from those
>mentioned in the first Ayah "AL MU'MININ .... anzala ASSAKINATA ALEIHIM".
You are saying very big words, trying to play with the words of the
quran, to prove what!? Abu Baker is not good ( the Quran says about
him when he set Bilal free " Wama li'ahadin i'ndahu min ni'matin tujza
illabtigha'a whjhi rabbihil' ala, wala saufa yardha" ). But if you
insist that he is still not good, o.k, what else? Some other sahabah are
not good, fine, then what. Is that the message of your religion ?
My advice to you is:
- Read the message of Islam, read the Quran, it is easy to understand,
much easier than getting the interpretation from X or Y claimed
scholars. You can use their interpretation to give you some background,
but remember that the Quran was sent to people who have no scholars to
interpret (except the messenger pbuh), and it was understood by believers
and nonbelievers " Inna anzalnahu Quranan arabiyan lallakum ta'kiloon"
- Read the Sirah of the prophet (pbuh) and his companions you may find
something good about them ( even if it was small amount ).
- Now carrying that heritage of good things from the past try to
implement the good things in your life, avoid what you think it was bad,
try to build an example of the proper muslim, our collapsing ummah is
looking for sincere muslims, be that one take care of your self, dont
spend your time to find out what is bad about X or Y who lived 1400
years ago. You are only accounted for your deeds " Tilka ummaton qad
khalat, laha ma kassabat walakum ma kassabtum wala tussaloun a'mma kanoo
ya'maloun".
- Stop that useless debate, and remember the hadeeth that says: " la
youminu ahadokum hatta yada'al kaziba fil mizah, wal mira'a wa in cana
sadiquan" You may not believe until you give up telling lies even for a
joke, and forsake useless debates even when you are truthful"
- The message of Islam is very general and very clear, but we are
falling short from the basics of Islam " Wa' tassimou bihablillahi
jamee'an wala tafarraqou"
- I hope that nobody will talk any more about shiiat or sunnah , our
religion is called Islam.
Wassalamu ala manittaba'al huda
Ahmed
OBAID ARIF
>
>Assalam aleikum,
>
>A brother asked me by e-mail two questions, and i'd like to share them with you.
>from the Qu'ran:
>---------------
>"Innama Walyoukum Allah wa rasuluhu wa ALLAZINA AMANU allazina
> yukimuna assalata wa yu'tuna azzakata WA HUM RAKI'OUN"
>
>
>------------
> baadi abadan, kitabu Allah(SWT) wa atrati Ahl-Beiti"
>
>I recall also a hadith where sahabi Salman Al-farsi asked the Prophet(sAaas):
>"Each Prophet has a successor, then who is your successor?"
>
>
>
Assalamu'alaikum
You keep quoting from the Qu'ran and also some hadiths in arabic.
Unfortunately I don't understand arabic. If you could please either
give a translation or give a source (surah no., etc) in the future it
would be very helpful.
Wassalam
Nadeem Siddiqi
Ekrem Saban
[...]
I think the burden of proof is on the person who accuses a
certain subset of the companions of the prophet to be unfair, while
the rest are fair. I do not follow a sunni or shia scholar. I would
prefer not to rely on any biased accounts that condemn Ali son of
Talib or Omar son of Al-Khattab. They. among others were companions of
Those who condemned Ali ra don't excist today. They called themselves
Haricit and there are no followers today.
the prophet, and we or any of the current sunni/shia scholars are not
in any position to criticize men and women who were much more
dedicated to God, then we could ever dream to be. I would prefer to
follow God's guidance rather than any scholar who considers himself
sunni or shia.
Again: Sunni scholars (none of them) criticize sahaba-i kiraam.
I must add that is high time for shias and sunnis to throw
away all past grudges, and "cling one and all to the faith of God, and
let nothing divide you". Any insults hurled in the general direction
of Ayesha/Abu-Bakr/Omar/Osman/Ali would only add fuel to the fire that
is burning the shia-sunni division.
Salman [just a member of "one ummah under God" movement] Azhar
That's correct.
Assalamu ~alaikum
Ekrem
Behnam Sadeghi
In article <EKREM.91D...@cuba.vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at> ek...@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban) writes:
>Those who condemned Ali ra don't excist today. They called themselves
>Haricit and there are no followers today.
Some time ago, a Sunni Pakistani netter posted some information about a
Sunni Muslim group in Pakistan which curses Ali. Also, a friend of mine
from UAE told me that a group of Sunni Muslims in that country pray for
the drunkard Yazid, the murderer of the beloved grandson of Prophet, Imam
Hussain.
So, these extremist groups exist; but they are minorities.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
A side comment:
Muawiya, who is responsible for the murder of many sahaba and ahli-bayt
members and who fought against Ali, is the person who initiated the practice
of cursing Imam Ali during the Call to Prayers. This practice persisted
in the Muslim world until the righteous Ummayad caliph, Umar ibn Abdul Aziz
ended it.
Question: Are we supposed to consider Muawiya as above criticism simply
because he happened to be alive during the lifetime of the prophet? Should
we treat anybody who was alive during the Prophet's lifetime as above
criticism? [By that definition, we would have more than 100,000 sahaba]. This
doesn't seem logical because the Munafiqeen (who are condemned in the Qur'an)
also professed Islam during the Prophet's lifetime.
Behnam Sadeghi
Ali Atie
Assalamu `alaikum,
the following is another reply to an e-mail that i'd like to share with you.
>"innallaha ma`ana" = Allah is with US i.e. the prophet and Abu
>Bakr, the verse cannot be taken to mean that Allah sent his sakina on
>sayeddina Muhammad exclusively of Sayeddina Abu Bakr al-Siddique.
Check your arabic language. You could not use the single person when
you talk about more than one person while the inverse is true.
so: AleiHI (on him) cannot in any case mean AleiHIMA (on them).
>This is in fact supported by ayah 39 in surat al-Tawbah, which
>talks about Hunayn. Of the few people who were around the prophet
>peace be upon him, when every one else fled, was Abu Bakr and `Umar
>and Al-`Abbas and `Ali ....
Who told you that Umar stood in Hunayn, this is not true, he fled with
other sahaba. For Abu Bakr, i'm not shure if he stood or not, i'll try to check
that. But even if he stayed, the Ayah designed only Al-Mu'mineen from them, and
while Allah(SWT) sent his Sakina on them He didn't do it on Abu Bakr in the
Aya 55.
>What I would like to know, is what your position is on the
>sahaba after the death of the prohpet i.e. who remained `adl and who
>didn't. Maybe from there we can reach somewhere.
Before the death of the Prophet(sAaas), some Sahaba were disobeying
Him in many situations. the final one was when Umar refused
with others to bring a paper and a pencil to the Prophet(sAaas) who
asked them for do it in order to write something that will
prevent them from being lost (two or three days before the death of the
Prophet(sAaas), See All Sihah, Sunni scholars).
After the death of the Prophet(sAaas), some Sahaba took benefits from
the situation and their acts of disobedience to Allah(SWT) became more
clear.
I recall a Hadith where the Prophet(sAaas) refused to bear witness for Abu
Bakr like he did it with Shuhadaa Uhud (martyrs of the war of Uhud) and said to him:
i don't know what you will make after my death.
Mawte' Al-Imam Malek.
>"Wala takunu kallatheena farraqu deenahum wa kanu sheea`an kullu
> hizbin bima ladayhim farihoon"
"Al-latheena yastami'una al-kawl fa yattabiu'na ahsanah ulaeeka
al-latheena hadahum Allah wa ulaeeka hum ulu al-albab"
Surah Az-Zumur - Ayah 18