Sura 16:67 - Is Alcohol Haram or not? What does this discussion lead to?
Mohamed Abdel-Aziz
For quite a while now we can find many posts in SRI arguing whether "Wine
and Intoxicants" (or Khamr in general) are allowed or not, according to
Quran. The verse 16:67 was stated, and it has a supposed meaning of allowing
alcoholic drinks.
Well, I think before we continue this argumentation we should think about
what we want it to lead us to - Do we want to discuss a topic with
"reasonable" arguments and reconsider when we see that we are wrong, or just
say stubbornly that we are right and our sole reason for continuing this
discussion is to gain the upper hand by "all means necassary"!
"And those who, when they are reminded of the revelations of their Lord,
fall not deaf and blind thereat. And who say: Our Lord! Vouchsafe us comfort
of our wives and of our offspring, and make us patterns for (all) those who
ward off (evil)." (Quran, Pickthal's translation, 25, 73-74)
OK, 16: 67 is obviously Quran and we are reminded of it, it says:
YUSUFALI: And from the fruit of the date-palm and the vine, ye get out
wholesome drink and food: behold, in this also is a sign for those who are
wise.
PICKTHAL: And of the fruits of the date-palm, and grapes, whence ye derive
strong drink and (also) good nourishment. Lo! therein is indeed a portent
for people who have sense.
SHAKIR: And of the fruits of the palms and the grapes-- you obtain from them
intoxication and goodly provision; most surely there is a sign in this for a
people who ponder.
("wa men thamaratil-nakhiyli wal-a`anabi tatakhedhouna menhu sakaran wa
rezqan Hasana, enna fi dhaleka la'ayatan leqawmen ya`qeloun.")
Well, when we compare the translations with the Arabic original we must lay
Yusuf Ali aside, as it is too much an interpretation. The Arabic original
doesn't say "food" at all, but it says "Rezq" which means something like
blessing or provision. A good provision can be food, but that is not what is
said. The other two are just fine.
We all agree that we can make wine out of dates and grapes. But is this wine
a good provision? If I wanted to deceive someone I could easily state
"intoxication AND goodly provision", which means that intoxication does not
belong in the row of goodly provision. That is clear isn't it?
Well, the "wa" is not necassarily a means of exclusion, like in 21, 48: "And
We verily gave Moses and Aaron the Criterion (of right and wrong) and a
light and a Reminder for those who keep from evil". The "furqan", the
"diaa'" and the "dhekr" stand for the same. It could be linguistically very
good possible that this "rezqan Hasanan" in 16:67 refers to "sakaran".
Yes, I had this theory that sakar could be just the extract we get out of
these dates and grapes, not the "wine" we make. I argued that the word sakar
originates (it is not the same!) from sweetness, anyway, I did not find any
reference proving my statement, so I can't say that it is anything more than
a mere personal opinion! Still, I find it impressive that the word "sakar"
is used, not "khamr", God doesn't choose words by random!
Anyway, "khamr" is something found in the paradise, as stated in 47: 15.
Yes, we can enjoy drinking khamr if we are righteous and deserve to enter
paradise. So well, is khamr good or bad?It must be good, it is a reward,
isn't it?
Indeed there is no clear statement in Quran saying that khamr is "Haram". It
surely is not!!! Polygamy is not Haram either, but does this mean that we
should marry more than one wife?
Quran says it all:
"He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive,
they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for
those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which
is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own)
interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those
who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our
Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding." (Shakir's
translation 3:7)
This verse can be interpreted in two ways either
1. No one knows the meaning of those except God
2. No one knows it except God AND those firmly rooted in knowledge, [they]
say...
An allegorical verse stating that there are allegorical verses. Indeed, it
is a great book. I tend to the second interpretation. God describes Quran as
"alkitabul-mobeen" (the book which makes plain/clear), there must be some
people who understand it, this is proven in 29, 49: "But it is clear
revelations in the hearts of those who have been given knowledge, and none
deny Our revelations save wrong-doers."
Well, who has knowledge of the Quran sees a conditioned right to marry 2, 3
or 4, IF (!): "if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry
of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four" (4, 3) and IF NOT?
the rest of the verse tells us: "and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice
(to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands
possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice."
Many say, well, we will marry more than one, we will be just. They actually
seek their pleasure. But does God not tell us a condition? He tells us
further: "Ye will not be able to deal equally between (your) wives, however
much ye wish (to do so). But turn not altogether away (from one), leaving
her as in suspense. If ye do good and keep from evil, lo! Allah is ever
Forgiving, Merciful."
Well yes, God did not say in clear words it is "forbidden" and we are not
allowed to call anything "Haram" which is not or we don't know it is. BUT:
God tells us that WE WON'T BE ABLE TO BE JUST BETWEEN THEM, HOWEVER WE TRY;
but we still think that we know better (or we try to convince ourself with
it)!
God did not say that Khamr is Haram, there are benefits in Khamr, but He
says: "O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and
divining arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handwork. Leave it aside in
order that ye may succeed. Satan seeketh only to cast among you enmity and
hatred by means of strong drink and games of chance, and to turn you from
remembrance of Allah and from (His) worship. Will ye then have done?"
It is listed along with idols as a means of the Satan, an infamy. He uses
"Khamr" cast enmity and hatred between us. We have to leave it aside to
succeed. So it clearly prevents success (falaH). Anyway, we still know
better and say that drinking is something good.
And well, we find it in paradise, because of one thing: "And We remove
whatever rancour may be in their hearts. Rivers flow beneath them. And they
say: The praise to Allah, Who hath guided us to this. We could not truly
have been led aright if Allah had not guided us. Verily the messengers of
our Lord did bring the Truth. And it is cried unto them: This is the Garden.
Ye inherit it for what ye used to do." (7, 43)
Obviously, Khamr won't be a means of the devil anymore, because he won't
spread hatred with it, because every "ghell" in our hearts is removed!
"We send not the messengers save as bearers of good news and warners. Those
who disbelieve contend with falsehood in order to refute the Truth thereby.
And they take Our revelations and that wherewith they are threatened as a
jest." (18, 56)
And we are threatened to be misguided by the devil if we drink "Khamr"!
I don't know what you are up to. For me Khamr and polygamy are in exactly
the same category. They are NOT Haram, but.... God leaves us the judgment.
But remember, everyone bears the responsibility of his judgment.
I hope this discussion, which is leading us to nowhere would end soon, and
may God guide us to his right path.
Salam
Asad Khan
The refutation of this would be in the fact that Muhammad (S) and the Sahabah
(R) punished people who drank alcohol. Which shows that to them the Quran
abrogated the ruling that "khamr" etc is halal.
Which means that the people who say otherwise need to reexamine their usul.
Asad.
Fodil
I agree with you 100%,
We can't say it is haram for the simple and clear reason that Allah never
said so, Allah never run out of words, Allah never forgets, and nobody shall
"correct" nor speak for him, and he is not playing hide and seek with us..
The samething applies to slavery?, is it haram?..
Allah would never say that there is benefit in it and make it haram?!, and
use the same haram thing for medicine?!, something is very illogical in this
"logic"...
The person causes the ithm by intoxicating him/herself..not the wine itself,
nor alcohol..We have to be reasonable as Allah stresses in his book..
We can all speculate , but FACTS talk , and Allah is right!, and he looks in
the hearts..
Anybody with a reasonable mind can understand exactly what are BENEFITS and
what are the ITHMS, and it is very clear that the ithm outweights the
benefit, but the benefit is not negligibale to the point to be completly
ignored as some "eulemas" are pretending, therefore it can not , by any
means, be classified as haram, not recommended might be the right word for
it..(fih ithm wa manafeeh), the answer is already given to us, why are we
"jadal" and ponder about it.."they ask you " Say: "In both there is ithm and
manafee but the ithm is greater than manafee.", this is the answer to the
qwuestion "is it haram?"or to "how come it is not included with the haram
food?", we are given the answer why?, just because Allah said it has manafee
wa ithm, and he never said it is haram...
Ps: it is haram to say that Allah said wine is haram..
Wa ssalam, and thank you..
Fodil
zi...@softhome.net
"Had shareb El-khamr", which was 80 "jalda" was according to all Hadith-books
invented by one of the Khalifas (I don't know right now whether it was Abu
Bakr or Omar)
I never heard about the prophet punishing anyone who drank Alcohol.
I do not believe that the Quran was abrogated. Saying so means that we can
"throw these abrogated verses away" wal-`eyazu bellah. What does the Quran say
about people who believe in some of the book and disbelieve in some?
Our "Usul" have to be Quran. If God tells you that there is something, "in it
is evil" then a good Moslem will leave it. A Moslem who fears God and who
doesn't want to make evil. God tests us that way. He doesn't have to say "this
is Haram" in every case.
Salam!
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Thotful560
That was one of the better posts on Quran and alcohol that I have ever read.
Reasonable, intelligent and well thought out.
Thank you and may Allah reward all the believers.
A sister