Mecca direction in Vancouver and California?
hadi abedi
Salam'o Aleikum,
Does anybody know the Mecca direction in Vancouver
and California?
Thanks in advance,
Hadi Abedi
m a m
--
IN THE NAME OF ALLAH. THE EVER-MERCIFUL, THE MERCY-GIVING.
All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
Heavenly Salutations and Peace be upon the Messenger of Allah
and upon his family, his noble companions
and all those who follow them in righteousness until the Day of
Judgment.
Br. Hadi Abedi;
Assalamu alaykum wa rahmat-ULLAHi wa barakatuhu.
Try this site on the www:
http://www.uwm.edu/cgi-bin/bashir/salat.cgi
majed almogbel
Rafiq
North America=northern hemisphere
Kaaba=a little north of the equator, still in northern hemisphere
Pray south of east, but not exactly south of east, just a little above
it.
See where the sun sets, that is west, look in the opposite direction,
that is
east, to your right is south, now pray inbetween those two.
Salam 'Alaikum
Diana Beatty
Rafiq (rafiq...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: > Does anybody know the Mecca direction in Vancouver
: > and California?
The post below is not correct to my knowledge. In the United States
and Canada the shortest distance as the crow flies to Mecca is to go
up over the pole: we pray to the NNE (north north east). As for exact angles,
I do not know.
: Pray south of east, but not exactly south of east, just a little above
: it.
--
Diana Beatty
Fort Collins/Colorado Springs CO USA
Rafiq
Diana Beatty wrote:
> The post below is not correct to my knowledge. In the United States
> and Canada the shortest distance as the crow flies to Mecca is to go
> up over the pole: we pray to the NNE (north north east). As for exact angles,
> I do not know.
> : Pray south of east, but not exactly south of east, just a little above
> : it.
I don't get it. If a muslim was to pray towards Paris (bad example, I
know) would he pray directly opposite, to the West knowing that since
the Earth is rounded, he'll get to Paris?
Take a look at a world map and tell me that after you draw a line
connecting, lets say New York to Makkah, its not the shortest route?
What has happened to the common sense of muslims?
Common sense is not always common practice.
AbdulraHman Lomax
as-salamu 'alaykum.
Rafiq <rafiq...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>North America=northern hemisphere
>Kaaba=a little north of the equator, still in northern hemisphere
So far, what is said is true.
>Pray south of east, but not exactly south of east, just a little above
>it.
Surely this depends on where in North America one is located, and for
most of North America, it is not correct, according to the majority of
those who have studied the issue.
As to the definition of North America, it extends from Alaska to
Greenland in the north, to as far south as the isthmus of Panama,
which is farther south than Mecca.
>See where the sun sets, that is west, look in the opposite direction,
>that is east, to your right is south, now pray inbetween those two.
Using the sun is, of course, the normal and usual way to determine
qibla. The sun rises approximately in the east, at true local noon
(which demarks zuhr time: one waits until after noon), shadows point
due north in most of North America (in the southern part at some times
of the year the sun will be directly overhead, or shadows will point
south at noon). And, of course, the sun sets in the west,
approximately.
At night, one may similarly use the moon, or Polaris, if one knows how
to recognise it, indicates due north.
Now, as to qibla, there are two major methods by which it is
determined, and they can lead to quite contradictory results when one
is on the opposite side of the earth from Mecca, as we are; when one
is close to Mecca, the two methods converge.
The first method is apparently the one used by Rafiq, and it has an
ancient pedegree. It is simply and fairly easy to apply, and it works
quite well within the entire territory of ancient Islam. It is to
first consider whether one is farther north or south than Mecca; this
is fairly easy to determine by observing the elevation of Polaris; if
Polaris is higher in the night sky than it is at Mecca (average 21
degrees 27 minutes -- Polaris is not exactly at the North celestial
pole but appears to orbit it at a distance of a little less than a
degree), then one is farther to the north by as many degrees as the
elevation of Polaris exceeds its elevation at Mecca. Then, presumably,
one also knows whether one is substantially east or west of Mecca. One
combines this information according to a saying I have seen quoted
from Al-Muqriziyy Ash-Shafi'iyy: "When people face al-Ka'bah they do
so like a cricle around its center. Hence for he who is west of
al-Ka'bah, the direction of al-Qibla for his prayers is to the
east.... for he who is between north and west from al-Ka'bah, the
direction of his Qibla is between south and east."
Now, there is a problem with this. If people at a substantial distance
actually do this, their lines of prayer do not form a circle around
the Ka'bah. This is because the definition of "north" becomes quite
bizarre as one approaches the pole. If one was standing just south of
the North Pole along the Meccan meridian, Mecca is due south. Now, if
one steps backward accross the pole, where is Mecca? If one says that
it is still to the south, (and surely one is still farther north than
Mecca), this "south" is 180 degrees away from the "south" a few steps
ahead. But Mecca has not actually rotated all the way around; all that
has changed is that one has passed across a point where the names of
directions reverse.
The problem is that north and south, as well as east and west, are
relative directions, and they are not relative to Mecca but to the
polar axis and its related equator. If Mecca were at the north pole,
for example, there would be no problem. Just face north, wherever you
are, would be everyone's simple advice.
I do not think that the direction of Mecca should depend on the
coordinate system we choose for measurement; rather it should depend
only on where Mecca would appear if I could see Mecca (for example, if
the earth became transparent and Mecca were a bright light.) Another
way of conceiving this which has practical application is that if
there were a tall (*very tall*) vertical pole at Mecca, such that it
projected above the horizon and I could see it, I would pray in the
direction in which it appeared. In the example I gave, at the north
pole such a tall pole would appear to the south when I was in the
first position mentioned, and I could face it, and I would be facing
south. Now, if I were to step backward, I would still see it in front
of me, but the name of the direction would change to north as I
crossed the north pole.
So this leads me to the second basic method. Actually, in the past,
there were many methods. Most of them produce reasonably good results
when one is close to Mecca, and only begin to deviate from each other
at great distances. But in modern times, there are really only three
methods which we encounter (the two we are discussing plus a third:
one simply accepts a predefined qibla. This is actually obligatory in
many situations. One does not walk into a masjid during the prayer and
pull out one's GPS locator, calculator, and compass and determine
qibla! One does not even pull out a compass....)
The second method is to determine the direction of the hypothetical
pole I mentioned. Now the situation actually gets a little more
complex in most of North America. Problem is that the pole, no matter
how high it is, will be below the horizon for most of North America.
To avoid belaboring the obvious, I will simply say that when one is on
the other side of the earth, as we are, one can pray *away* from the
point on the earth which is directly opposite to Mecca; so let us
think of this pole not as extending only in the air above Mecca, but
rather it is like a skewer that also passes down through the center of
the earth and up into the sky on the other side. By the way, it would
come up through an area at sea in French Polynesia. There is no land
there.
Above I mentioned that if Mecca were at the north pole, one would pray
to the north, it would be that simple. Well, this skewer is the Meccan
pole, and the Meccan side is like "north," and the other side is like
"south." So if one cannot see the "north" pole, one faces *away* from
the "south" pole. Everywhere, south and north are opposites, except,
of course at the poles, where there is a special situation.
Most of us know that within the Ka'bah, one may pray in any
direction....
Now, there are many other ways of stating this, or finding this
direction. Twice a year, the sun passes almost exactly overhead at
Mecca. At those times, the direction of the sun will be the direction
of Mecca, and the accuracy would be within one degree. One can also
use the time when the sun is directly below Mecca (we need to do this
from North America), and at this time, shadows will point toward
Mecca.
But if one wants a quick answer, just go to a globe and stretch a
string from one's position to Mecca. The direction of the string at
one's position will be the direction of Mecca. For the mainland United
States, this direction varies from a little more north than NNE in the
northwestern U.S, to a little south of NE in the eastern U.S.
Alaska gets interesting. Because Alaska is mostly west of the Meccan
antimeridian, Mecca is, from western Alaska, to the northwest. From
Dawson, Canada, Mecca is *due north.*
One can also calculate the direction if one knows ones latitude and
longitude. The Encylopedia Brittanica, for example, lists the latitude
and longitude of cities, and there are many other such sources. There
are qibla calculator programs available on the web, and they generally
follow the method I recommend (method two, as if that were not
obvious).
For those who are interested, here is how to use the sun to find
Mecca, specifically (some of what I will say is a bit of a repeat of
what is above. This is from my booklet Qibla: the Determination of
Direction).
At certain times of the year, the sun passes directly over Mecca. One
may determine Qibla within one degree by looking for the Sun at the
following dates and times:
SUN AT MECCAN ZENITH:
May 24 - June 2: 09:18 GMT
July 12 - July 20: 09:23 GMT
Correct the times to your local time from Greenwich Mean Time (I think
this is also called Universal Coordinated Time). At these times, the
direction of the Sun will be the direction of Mecca.
For those portions of the world which are more than about ten thousand
kilometers from Mecca, the Sun will not be visible at the above times.
Instead, observe the Sun at the following times:
SUN AT MECCAN NADIR:
January 9 - January 17: 21:29 GMT
November 26 - December 3: 21:08 GMT
At these times, the Sun is directly below Mecca. Qibla at these times
is the direction of shadows.
On November 28, 1996, at 21:09:13 GMT, the solar position will be one
minute of arc south of the Meccan antipode, should one want to make a
really accurate determination of qibla. I would urge anyone who wants
to do this to practice on other days to solve the practical problems
that will arise, for example, dealing with the fact that the sun has
an angular diameter of about half a degree. Essentially, I would
suggest using a pinhole (to create a projected image) and determine
the direction of both sides of the image. But most people will not be
inspired to go to such detail.
(and on the Meccan side of the earth, the next exact time is May 28,
1997, at 09:18:14 GMT, when the solar position will be 3 minutes of
arc north of Mecca.)
Insha'allah.
AbdulraHman Lomax
mar...@ioa.com
Mazen Mokhtar
Assalamu `alaykum,
> we pray to the NNE (north north east). As for exact angles,
> I do not know.
Here is a partial list:
Vancouver, BC : 16 degrees E (From N)
Washington D.C.: 56 degrees E (From N)
Los Angeles, CA: 23 degrees E (From N)
New York, NY : 58 degrees E (From N)
Assalamu `alaykum,
Mazen Mokhtar
m a m
IN THE NAME OF ALLAH. THE EVER-MERCIFUL, THE MERCY-GIVING.
All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
Heavenly Salutations and Peace be upon the Messenger of Allah
and upon his family, his noble companions
and all those who follow them in righteousness until the Day of
Judgment.
Br. Rafiq:
Assalamu alaykum wa rahmat-ULLAHi wa barakatuhu.
A little experiment will do the trick;
1. Take a world map.
2. Draw a straight line from NY to Makkah.
(This line should go South East as you described the Qiblah)
3. Draw a curved line from NY to Makkah.
(This line should be similar to the Airlines rout
from NY to Makkah, which is curved up to the North East
passing through Maine/USA, Iceland, France ...)
4. Bring a spherical shape (Volley ball will do it) and
fold the map on it as if it is the Earth Sphere.
5. Now check your lines; Which is straight? Which is curve?
(The straight will appear to be curved down, and the curved
one will appear to be straight from NY to Makkah, which
proof that the Qiblah(shortest distance) is NE)
Now, did get it now?
Majed Almogbel
J.B. Hoffman
Salaam Alaikum,
In article <52ou0p$h...@shellx.best.com>, Rafiq <rafiq...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
>
>I don't get it. If a muslim was to pray towards Paris (bad example, I
>know) would he pray directly opposite, to the West knowing that since
>the Earth is rounded, he'll get to Paris?
>
>Take a look at a world map and tell me that after you draw a line
>connecting, lets say New York to Makkah, its not the shortest route?
>
>What has happened to the common sense of muslims?
>Common sense is not always common practice.
>
As a recent convert to Islam, I understand the confusion surrounding this
subject (*believe me* I do!).
The problem lies in looking at a map. A map is a two-dimensional
representation of a three-dimensional object (in this case, a spheroid). Thus,
one must use spherical trigonometry -- not geometry -- to arrive at the proper
direction.
As I understand it, it all rests upon the axiom that the shortest distance
between two points on a sphere is a Great Circle. There is a web page where a
brother explains this all very well and to an exhausting degree. I don't
remember the URL right now, but I found it by searching Alta Vista for
something along the lines of "mathematical basis qibla."
Insha'Allah, this will help.
Jamaludeen
Rakib Khan
A straight line to Makkah is correct. But here is the catch. Do not do
it on a flat map. Use a globe instead. Tie a piece of string from your
city to Makkah and you should have the correct direction.
If you are in Toronto, Montreal, New York you would have to face about
17-21 degrees north of East bearings.
Just my two bits
AbdulraHman Lomax
as-salamu 'alaykum.
Rafiq <rafiq...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I don't get it. If a muslim was to pray towards Paris (bad example, I
>know) would he pray directly opposite, to the West knowing that since
>the Earth is rounded, he'll get to Paris?
East and West are not like North and South. If you are farther West
than a place (but not more than 180 degrees farther!) then the
shortest distance to the place is always to the East. You will note
that (Alaska excepted) everyone in North America agrees that Mecca is
to the East. The problem has to do with North and South.
North and South behave peculiarly as the distance between two places
increases such that one of the poles approaches being in between the
two places. If you were standing on one side of the North Pole and I
was standing on the other, to face each other we would both face
north! Suppose, however, that I was farther north than you, i.e., you
were farther from the pole. You would be farther south than me, in
other words. Would this mean that I should face south to face you?
Hardly. I would still face north.
I flew a couple of years ago from New York to Casablanca. The Royal
Air Maroc plane had a big screen showing map with the position of the
plane at all times. Our path started out to the north for quite a
while before it turned to the south. This is the straight line path.
It's called a great circle route because it is a "great circle," i.e.,
a circle formed by the intersection of the surface of the earth with a
plane defined by three points: the origin, the destination, and the
center of the earth. In fact, though we call it a circle, and it looks
curved on a Mercator projection map, it is the straightest possible
line that follows the surface of the earth, every other path on the
surface curves more.
>Take a look at a world map and tell me that after you draw a line
>connecting, lets say New York to Makkah, its not the shortest route?
All depends on what kind of map you use. The best kind of map would be
an azimuthal projection map centered on the point of origin. This is
the kind of map used by radio operators to aim their antennas. You
have to make it uniquely for the place where it will be used. Such a
map shows the true direction to any point on the surface of the earth.
You could also use the same kind of map centered on Mecca. Problem
with using this is that it is quite hard to find the starting bearing
on such a map. It's easy with the first kind; what you get easily from
the Mecca-centered projection is the bearing of the path as it comes
to Mecca.
Or, if one wants to use a map that actually shows the true shape of
the Earth, one could use a globe. It is very easy to see on a globe
that the straight line between North America (most of it, anyway) and
Mecca is to the Northeast.
What Rafiq is thinking about is Mercator map. Mercator maps were
invented in the 16th century C.E. by Mercator (amazing coincidence,
eh?) Such a map is distorted in such a way that one can find the
bearing of the line of constant compass heading between two points by
drawing a straight line between them. This is a very useful map for
navigation purposes when one wants to travel over short distances: it
is simple and easy to follow a constant bearing. But this path, the
line of constant bearing (called a rhumb line) is actually a complex
spiral, called a loxodrome. It is not anything like a straight line,
it just appears that way on a Mercator map.
And if one is travelling a great distance, no navigator would follow
it unless he has time and fuel to burn.
>What has happened to the common sense of muslims?
>Common sense is not always common practice.
Indeed. Sometimes, also, "common sense" can be dead wrong. This is one
such case. Common sense is based on everyday perception, but everyday
perception does not include directions between objects at great
distances. The difference between a great circle and a rhumb line, if
the distances are short and one is not near one of the poles, is very
small.
Yes, to go by the shortest, straightest route between Texas and Paris,
for example, I would go to the Northeast, and I would, at my
northernmost point, be quite far to the north of Paris. If I continued
on that same path, neither deviating to the left or the right, I would
end up at Mecca. The shortest line, the straightest line, deviating
neither to the right or left, between Texas and Mecca passes through
Paris (if I stay near the surface of the earth).
People who have published confusing arguments on this point have
mentioned that such a path changes its compass bearing, as if that
meant that it was a curved path. But the compass bearing changes only
because one is essentially passing by the pole. The great circle path
does not deviate to the right or the left (but only down, with the
curvature of the earth) whereas the constant compass path actually
deviates to one side or the other. I have done projections of these
paths as seen from space, and, from any point directly above a great
circle route, it appears as a straight line, whereas the curvature of
a rhumb line is obvious when it is seen from above.
AbdulraHman Lomax
mar...@ioa.com
Dr. Monzur Ahmed
Rafiq wrote:
> > Does anybody know the Mecca direction in Vancouver
> > and California?
>
> North America=northern hemisphere
>
> Kaaba=a little north of the equator, still in northern hemisphere
>
> Pray south of east, but not exactly south of east, just a little above
> it.
Salaams,
To *unambiguously* see the direction of Qibla from any location on
earth see the spherical maps produced by my program Prayer Times
Calculator v2.5 at:
http://www.ummah.org.uk/software/ptc25.zip
Wasalaam.
--
Monzur
mo...@netcom.demon.co.uk