QADIANIS
Dr. Ijaz A. Rauf
On 8 Feb 1997, Syed wrote:
> We (orthodox muslims) must stop the Qadiani religion from expanding. They
> are watering down Islam
> and are misleading many non-believers into believing they are the true
> muslims.
A seed sown by Allah's own hand can never be stopped by any powers of
the world. That's what Hadhrat Mirza Ghullam Ahmad (AS) declared. And
you see it keeps growing so understand there is Allah's hand behind it.
You must come to terms with the fact that Ahmadi Muslims are the only
saved sect among all the sect of Islam as prophecised by Holy Prophet
(pbuh).
> The Qadianis must understand that their religion is not true but
> was set up by the west to dilute Islam and create disunity.
Has Allah told you that or are you acting on your intuitions? Such
allegations are always made against people of God. Holy Prophet (pbuh)
was also alleged to have been planted in Arabia by Jews and Christians
and that is recorded in the Holy Quran. Oh! How lucky we Ahmadi Muslims
are that we resemble our beloved master Muhammad (pbuh) even in the
allegation raised by opponents. Subhan-Allah, wal Hamdo Lillah.
> Our religion is being plagued by too many sects.-we are becoming like the
> Chirstians.
Well when Allah's protection is lifted from a nation because of their
actions then that's what happens. It is still not too late.
> Allah will ask us all what contributions we have made to stop religions like
> these.
And if Allah has sent Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS) as Messiah for
this age then rest assured he will also ask you what sincere effort
did you put into examining the claims of this servant of Mine? Then
what will be your answer to your Lord? Will it be, O' Allah I heard
they were planted by western powers so I went against them? or will
it be that because people were against this man I thought he must be
false? Just practice your answer and be ready for the Day of Judgement.
> Syed Muneer
> mun...@flash.net
> ----------------------------------------
Dr. Ijaz A. Rauf
Department of Physics, University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada,
T6G 2J1.Ph:(403)492-3041 Fax:(403)492-0714 E-mail:ir...@phys.ualberta.ca
**** Love For All ** Hatred For None **** I Express My Opinions Only ***
************************************************************************
* Ahmadiyyat, in fact, is the true Islam revealed to Muhammad (PBUH) *
* You can watch for yourself on satellite TV, for details about time *
* and channels in your region visit URL http://alislam.org/mta/ *
************************************************************************
ghen...@khan.u-net.com
On 2 Mar 1997 02:54:14 GMT, "Dr. Ijaz A. Rauf" <ir...@Phys.ualberta.ca> wrote:
Forwarded article!
Praise be to Allah.
His Love and Peace be upon Syedna Mohammed and His family and companions
BEWARE OF THE EVIL
OF
AHMADIYYA MOVEMENT AGAINST ISLAM
Dear Sisters & Brothers in Islam
Assalamo Alaikum
I would like to draw your attention to an evil that is lurking at your
door step pretending to be muslims. In an organised manner they are
misguiding ignorant and simple minded muslims, leading them away from
Islam to the abyss of Ahmadiyyat.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian founded the Ahmadiyya Movement in 1889.
He claimed to be a recepient of Revelation and that his claims are
based on Holy Quran and his own revelation and that like a waste
paper, throw away all those Hadiths of Holy Prophet SAAW, which
contradict his claims and revelations.
He claimed to be Promised Messiah, Mahdi, Prophet, Messenger, Adam,
Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Solomon, David, Moses, Eisa Ibne
Maryam and Second Advent of Holy Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon all
of them)
, All in One. All those who did not believe in his prophethood were
declared Bastards by him.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and his followers have been declared Apostates and
out of the fold of Islam.
Following are some of the quotations from the books written by Mirza
Ghulam
, which clearly highlights his heretical and anti-Islamic views:-
* Holy Prophet Mohammed SAAW did not understand the meaning of
Surath AlZilzal.
(Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain, vol 3 p.166-167)
* "Quran is God's Book and the words of my mouth."
(Advertisement dated 15th March 1897)
* "Prophets are liars." (Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain vol 3 p.472)
* "Hadrath Mohammad's Revelation also turned out to be wrong."
(Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain vol 3 p.472)
* "Hazrath Imam Mahdi will not come." (Izala-e-Auham, Roohani
Khazain vol 3 p.378)
* "Revelation did not inform Hazrath Mohammad about Ibne Maryam,
Dajjal, Khare Dajjal, Yajoog Majoogand Daabatul Ardh."
(Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain vol 3 p.473)
* "Khar-eDajjal (donkey of Dajjal) is the railway train, Dabbatul
Ardh are Muslim Scholars (Ulema) and Dajjal are the Christian
Priests etc. etc." (Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain vol 3
p.365-366)
* "Hazrath Eisa ibne Maryam used to practice mesmerism and was quite
expert in it." (Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain vol 3 p.257)
* "Hazrat Eisa ibne Maryam was the son of Yusuf Najjar (Joseph, the
Carpenter)." (Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain vol 3 p.254)
* "Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya is the Book of God." (Izala-e-Auham, Roohani
Khazain vol 3 p.386)
* "Miracles mentioned in Holy Quran are results of Mesmerism."
(Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain vol 3 p.506)
* "Verse "No doubt we have revealed it near Qadian (Inna Anzalnaho
Qareeban min alQadian) is mentioned in Quran." (Izala-e-Auham,
Roohani Khazain vol 3 p.140)
* "Names of Makkah, Madina and Qadian are mentioned with respect in
Holy Quran." (Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain vol 3 p. 140)
"Bait-ul-Fikr (room where Mirza used to sit and write books) is like
Haram-e-Ka'aba, 'Wa man dakhalahoo kaan amina' (and whosoever
enter it,is in peace.)" (Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya, Roohani Khazain vol
1 p.666-667)
* "Verse of Holy Quran : 'Praise be to Allah, who took his servant
on the Night Journey from Masjid Haram to Masjid Aqsa', its real
and literal application is the mosque built by father of Mirza
Ghulam." (Advertisement for Donation to build Minaret-ul-Maseeh,
10 years after claiming to be the Promised Messiah, Collection of
Advertisements, vol 3 p.286)
* "Hadrath Rasool-e-Akram SAAW is not the Last and Final Messenger
of Allah." (Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain vol 3 p.320)
* "Qiyamah or the Day of Judgement is nothing and Destiny is false."
(Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain vol 3 p. 2 Title page, First
edition)
* "Sun will not rise from the West." (Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain
vol 3 p.376)
* "There is no punishment in grave." (Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain
vol 3 p.316)
* "Tanasukh (Transimmigration of soul - a hindu belief) is true."
(Sat Bachan p.84)
"Holy Quran is full of filthy words." (Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain
vol 3 p.115-117)
"I claim that I am the awaited Messiah, about whom there are
prophecies in all the Holy Books that he will appear in the last
days." (Thfa-e-Golravia, Roohani Khazain vol 17, p.295)
"I am Adam, I am Noah, I am Abraham, I am Isaac, I am Jacob, I am
Ishmael, I am Moses, I am Jesus son of Mary, I am Mohammed SAAW
..." (Roohani Khazain vol 22 p.521)
* I am the "Self-implanted and Self-cultivated Seedling" of the
British Government. (Kitab-ul-Bariyah, Roohani Khazain vol 13,
p.350)
* "From my early age till now when I am 65 years of age, I have been
engaged, with my pen and tongue, in an important task to turn the
hearts of muslims towards the true love & goodwill & sympathy for
the British Government and to obliterate the idea of jehad from
the hearts of stupid (muslims)." (Kitab-ul-Bariyah, Roohani
Khazain vol 13 p.350)
* "......for the sake of British Government, I have published &
distributed 50,000 leaflets in this country (India) and other
Islamic countries (against jehad)..... the result is that
hundreds of thousands of people have given up their filthy ideas
about Jihad." (Roohani Khazain vol 15 p. 114)
"...and I know these literatures have affected people in this country
as well and those who have taken oath with me they have formed a
Jama'at (Ahmadiyya) whose hearts are filled with true benevolence
of this (British) Government...and they are heartily willing to
lay down their lives for Government." (Letter to the British
Government by Mirza Ghulam, Tabligh-e-Risalat vol 6 p.65)
"Except for the Children of Prostitutes, whose hearts have been
sealed by God, everyone else believes in my Prophethood."
(Aina-e-Kamalate Islam, Roohani Khazain vol 5, p.547)
"He, who does not believe on Mirza Ghulam Qadiani, is Disobedient to
God and Prophet and will go to Hell." (Advertisement by Mirza
Ghulam dated 25th May 1900)
_________________________________________________________________
Dear Brothers in Islam!
This is the real face of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, the founder of
Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam. He and his followers had always been the
loyal servants of the British/Jews. They served well in the past and
they are serving with greater faithfulness today. Since we are all
'Kafirs and Bastards' in the eyes of Qadianis, they spy on us for
the sake of their masters.
Their Headquarter is now based in London. From here they send their
agents, disguised as muballigh (propagater of islam), to various
countries. They have focused their attention on the ignorant, simple
muslims in Africa, Europe, America and Central Asian Muslim countries.
Bosnian refugees, Albanians, Macedonians and Russian Muslims are their
main targets these days. Pretending to be the Champions of Islam,
Sunni Muslims and talking only of Quran and Hadith, keeping their
distorted beliefs and various c laims forwarded by their founder well
in the background, they portray Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani as a
Reformer of Islam and a Mahdi. They distribute free books, give
financial & other incentives to trap needy and disadvantaged muslims.
Make your brother aware of this Evil in the name of Islam.
Do Not let him fall prey unawares.
_________________________________________________________________
MAY ALLAH PROTECT US ALL
FROM
THE PIOUS FRAUD OF QADIANISM/AHMADIYYA MOVEMENT
AGAINST ISLAM.
_________________________________________________________________
For further information please write to me...
Email ras...@emirates.net.ae
_________________________________________________________________
Back to the Home Page
::::::::::::::
ah3
::::::::::::::
MIRZA GHULAM QADIANI
HIS LIFE AT A GLANCE
Chronology of Important Events
__________________________________________________________________________
1839/40MIRZA IS BORN TO CHIRAGH BIBI AND GHULAM MURTAZA 1846
* Formal education of Quran, Hadith etc begins at home by Molvi Fazl
Ilahi 1849
+ Molvi Fazal Ahmad teaches various subjects. 1852/53
o 1st Marriage with Hurmat Bibi alias Phajje di Maan. She
bore two sons, Sultan Ahmad and Fazal Ahmad. 1857/58
# Gul Ali Shah teaches Arabic Grammer etc. 1857
@ War of Independence, the so-called Indian
Mutiny.
@ To prove his loyalty to The British Raj,
Mirza's father donates 50 Armed Horsemen to
fight against the Muslims in the War of
Independence.
@ Mirza Ghulam Qadir, elder brother of Mirza
Ghulam, who served in the 46th Division of the
British Army under Gen Nicholson, killed
several freedom fighters near Sialkot. 1864
- Mirza runs away from home with the yearly
pension of his father and spends it in
undesirable pursuits. 1864-68
= Mirza takes up a clerical post in
the British Govt. Court at Sialkot.
= Takes up the Law exam but failed.
= Mirza befirends a Christian Padre,
who later on played a role 1868
* A Parliamentary Commision of Inquiry
came from England to find out ways
and means to control and subdue the
spirit of Jihad amongst the Muslims.
* Mirza resigns from his job and left
for Qadian
* Introduces himself as a Debator in
Islam. 1870
+ Report of Parliamentary Commission
'The Arrival of British Empire in
India' submitted to the British
Parliament. Report recommended
creating an Apostolic Prophet to
subdue the Spirit of Jihad in
Muslims. 1871
o Mirza Ghulam selected for the 'post'
of Apostolic Prophet. 1877
# Criminal case registered against him
by postal authorities. 1879
@ Claims to have been 'Appointed by
God' to proves the truthfulness of
Islam
@ Announcement of writing
Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya in 50 volumes.
@ Appeals for financial help and
advance payments for publication of
Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya. 1879-84
- Publishes four volumes of
Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya. 1884
onwards
= Stops writing Braheen-e-ahmadiyya.
= Writes books after books, wrote some
80 books over the next 25 years.
= Refers to Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya as the
book of God. 1884
* Claims to be Revivalist (Mujaddid)
of Islam.
* 2nd Marriage to Shahjehan Begum d/o
Mir Nasir Nawab, from whom three
sons, Mirza Bashiruddin Mehmood (2nd
Khalifa and father of Mirza Tahir,
the present Khalifa), Mirza Bashir
Ahmad (author of Seerat-ul-Mahdi)
and Mirza Sharif Ahmad were born.
* Admits being impotent at the time of
2nd Marriage. Prays to God for
sexual powers. God sends his Wahi
for making a divine potion.
* Upon Divine instructions, makes a
potion called 'TIRYAQ-e-ILAHI' to
regain his 'energy'. Major component
is 'OPIUM'. 1888
+ Start taking oath of allegiance
(Peeri-Mureedi) by the people.
+ Asks for the hand of Mohammadi Begum
for his 3rd Marriage.
+ Advertises that his 3rd Marriage
with Mohammadi Begum is a divinely
inspired proposal and that any
hinderance from any quarter will
result in Tragic Consequences for
the girl, her family and the person
to whom she is married.
+ Mirza Ghulam announced: This should
be clear to people that there can
be no bette r criterion to judge my
truth or falsehood than my
prophecy."(Aina-e-Kamalate Islam,
Roohani Khazain vol 5 p.288, by
Mirza Ghulam)
+ Mirza threatens his 1st wife and her
sons of dire consequences for not
helping in the marriage with
Mohammadi Begum. 1891
o Claims to be A Maseel Messiah (Like
Messiah) and denies that he is the
Promised Messiah. Labels those who
accused him of it, as Liars 1891
# Claims to have become Mariam.
# Claims to have become pregnant by
the insufflation of the soul of Eisa
(Jesus).
# Claims to have converted to Eisa
after staying for 10 months in his
own (Maryam's) womb. Says: "This is
how I am Jesus son of Mary."
(Kishtee Nooh, Roohani Khazain vol
19 p. 87-89) 1891
@ Establishes Ahmadiyya Movement in
Islam. 1892
- Mohammadi Begum got married to Mirza
Sultan Baig.
- In retaliation, Mirza:
= divorces his first wife.
= forces his one son to divorce his
wife.
= disinherits his second son.
[PS His first wife was related to
Mohammadi Begum.] 1893
= Challenged Deputy Commissioner
Abdullah Khan Atham, a Christian
Missionary, for a written debate to
prove the truthfulness of either
religion. Feb 1893
* Mirza declared: "Everyone has
accepted me and affirmed my claims,
except Children of Prostitutes,
whose hearts have been sealed by
God."
(Aina-e-Kamalate Islam, Roohani
Khazain vol 5 p.548)
Note: Mirza's own sons from the
first marriage had not accepted him
as Messiah!! 22nd May -5th June '93
+ Written debate with Atham.
+ Mirza recieves humiliating defeat.
As a result, many Muslims become
Christians!
+ Unrepentant, Mirza issues the Divine
Prophecy of Atham's death within 15
months (by 5th Sept 1894). He said:
"I admit that if this prophecy
turns out to be false... I am
prepared to recieve any punishment,
I should be disgraced, my face
blackened, put a rope around my
neck and hang me... I swear upon
God t hat He will definitely
fulfilled it, definitely fulfil it,
fulfil it. Earth and heavens can
move but God's word will not be
annulled." (Jang-e-Muqqaddas,
Roohani Khazain vol 6 p.293) Apr
1894
o Atham is still alive. Several
attempts made on the life of Atham
by unknown persons. 4th Sept
1894
# Magic Bullet: Mirza recites a
wazeefa over gram seeds and throws
them in an abandoned well to kill
Atham. 6th Sept
1894
@ Christains celebrated the victory of
Abdullah Atham and ridiculed and
lampooned Islam - thanks to Mirza
Ghulam!!. 1896
- Reiterates the divine origin of the
Prophecy and Marriage with Mohammdi
Begum. He said: "If I am a Liar, my
death will come
and this prophecy will not be
fulfilled."(Anjame Atham)
- He published this revelation:"and
they ask thee if this is true? Say:
Yes, By my Lord, it is true and you
cannot prevent it from taking
place. We have wed thee to her.
There is none to change my words."
(Asmani Faisla)
27TH JULY
1896
* Declares that paternal and maternal grandmothers Jesus Christ were
Prostitutes, from whose blood his was born and that was the reason
for Jesus' inclination towards prostitutes!! 1897
+ Petition to the British Govt.
+ Thanksgiving to Queen Victoria on her Silver Jubilee of
Coronation.
+ Case against Mirza by Income Tax authorities.
+ House search by police on suspicion of murder of Pundit
Lekhram, criminal case agianst him and his acquittal. 1898/99
o Petition to Lt Governor of Punjab reminding him that:
# His forefathers have always been loyal servants.
# He himself is the SELF IMPLANTED & SELF CULTIVATED
SEEDLING of the British Raj.
# From his early age till now when he is 65 years of
age, he has been engaged with his pen and tongue to
turn the hearts of Muslims towards true love and
goodwill for the British and to remove the concept
of Jehad from the hearts of stupid muslims.
# Criminal case against Mirz a to keep peace. 1900
@ Mirza Abrogates Jihad.
@ Named his followers 'Ahmadis' and instructs
them to use the same nomenclature for census.
1900
- Claimed prophethood. 25th May
1900
= Mirza Ghulam announces that all
those who do not accept him as
prophet are disobedient of God and
His Prophet and will dwell in
hellfire. 1901
* Mirza has still not forgotten
Mohammadi Begum. Issues yet another
statement that events will take
strange turn and she will inevitably
come into his wedlock as these are
divinely ordained matters. 1902
+ Finally to give some reprieve to the
poor Mohammadi Begum, some muslims
thought of a novel idea. Jaafer
Zitly published the following in his
newspaper: "I saw in my dream that
wife of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani is
going to come into my wedlock!!"
Mirza was struck dumb. After that he
never said a word about Mohammadi
Begum until his death in 1908.
Mohammadi Begum lived happily with
her husband for the next 40 years.
8th Nov
1902
o Mirza announces:"The basis for my
claims is not Hadiths but Quran and
my own revelation; in support we
also cite those Hadiths which do
not contradict my revelation. All
the rest of Hadiths, I throw them
away like a waste paper."(Zamima
Nuzoole Maseeh, Roohani Khazain vol
19 p.140) 1903
# Constructs Minarat-ul-Maseeh in
Qadian, 12 years after becoming the
Promised Messiah!! 1904
@ Claims to be the Lord Krishna of
Hindus. 1905
- Establishes the Heavenly Graveyard
in Qadian. 1906
= Admits having been afflicted by
Mental Illness and Excessive
Urination of upto 100 times per day,
since the time of claiming to have
been appointed by God (1879) 1907
* Prayer Duel with Molvi Sanaullah
Amratsari.
Advertises his prayer in Newspapers
whereby he prays to God AlMighty to
let the Liar die in the lifetime of
truthful and that the liar's death
should either be from Cholera or
Plague, which in his opinion was the
sign of Divine Anger.
* Claims that God has named him
Mohammed and Ahmad 26 years ago in
Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya. (Haqeeqatul
Wahi, Roohani Khazain vol 22 p.502)
* Claims that God has revealed 300,000
signs to substantiate his claims.
15th May
1907
+ Claims that following verses of Holy
Quran, revealed in the Honour nad
Glory of Holy Prophet Mohammed SAAW,
have now been revealed in Mirza's
honour:
@ Verse 7:17
@ Verse 55:1
@ Verse 9:33
@ Verse 53:9
@ Verse 17:1
@ Verse 3:31
@ Verse 48:10
@ Verse 48:1
@ Verse 73:15
@ Verse 107:1
@ Verse 36:3 (Haqeeqat-ul-Wahi,
Roohani Khazain vol 22)
+ Claims that God has named him after
every prophet. Therefore, he said:
"I am Adam, I am Noah, I am Abraham,
I am Isaac, I am Jacob, I am
Ishmael, I am Moses, I am David, I
am Eisa son of Maryam, I am
Mohammed...(Peace be upon Them)."
(Haqeeqatul Wahi, Roohani Khazain
vol 22 p. 521) 1908
o Publishes the fifth volume of
Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya. In its preface
he wrote: "Initially I had promised
to write it in 50 volumes. Since
the difference between 5 and 50 is
only ZERO, my promised is now
fulfilled after writing the 5th
volume. 1908
# Mirza gives a reception to the
Financial Commissioner Punjab
# DEATH: Mirza suddenly develops
Cholera. With remorse and
disappointment he uttered his last
words to his father in law:
"Mir Sahib! I have developed
Epidemic Cholera." He could not
utter any words after that and died
within a short time.
# Mohammadi Begum lived happily with
her husband for next 35 years.
# Molvi Sanaullah Amratsari lived for
the next 40 years.1908
# Hakeem Nuruddin becomes the 1st
Successor. 1914
@ Hakeem Nuruddin fell from the horse
and died.
@ Mirza Basheeruddin Mehmood, s/o
Mirza Ghulam, becomes the 2nd
Khalifa. Coming soonEvolution of
Ahmadiyya Movement.
email your comments and suggestions
to
ME.
Thomas Crescenzi
subhanallah!
the plagued history of al-ahmadiyya can leave no doubt to the truth of
allah's existence and power and continued watch over us..
reza
w...@cris.com
Virk Shakeel
ghen...@khan.u-net.com wrote:
: On 2 Mar 1997 02:54:14 GMT, "Dr. Ijaz A. Rauf" <ir...@Phys.ualberta.ca> wrote:
:
: Forwarded article!
: Praise be to Allah.
: His Love and Peace be upon Syedna Mohammed and His family and companions
:
: BEWARE OF THE EVIL
: OF
: AHMADIYYA MOVEMENT AGAINST ISLAM
Ghehghis Khan, you have posted so much wrong information about Hazrat
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, and the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam. Why have you
done this ?
Why are you so obsessed with attacking Ahmadi's ?
Look at that Ahmadiyya Muslim Community and compare it to any other group
of Muslims. There is no doubt that Ahmadis are amongst the most active,
if not the most active community spreading the message of Islam.
The Ahmadi Muslim Community has done so much for the sake of Islam and
continues to spread the word of Islam. Today there are about 12 to 15
million Ahmadi Muslims living in virtually all parts of the world.
This small community has set up a TV satelite channel which broadcasts
programs about Islam 24 hours a day to all parts of the world, including
Canada, America, Australlia, China, Pakistan, India, etc.. etc...
The community has translated the Holy Quran in over 150 languages and
printed so many books on Islam to spread the message.
The community has set up radio programs to spread the message of Islam,
and has built Mosques all over the world.
Last year 1.6 million people became Ahmadi Muslims.
Now compare this community with other Muslims. The Muslims living in
Saudi Arabia and other wealthy countries; what are they doing for the sake
of Islam ? They have so much wealth, and man power that one would expect
to see their accomplishments to be far greater then the small Ahmadi
Community.
Ahmadis will continue to sacrifice their wealth, time, honour, and lives
for the sake of Islam. If the last 100 years are any indication of the
future the Ahmadi Muslim Community will continue to grow and spread.
Think about it Ghenghis, you are aware that 72 leaders of various sects
signed an agreement which 'offically' makes Ahmadis non-Muslims, and you
are aware that the vast majority of Muslims are against this small
community.
Yet it continues to grow and spread, surely this is a sign.
Hazrat Ahmad (pbuh) wrote:
"There are seasons for the coming of divine reformers. There are
seasons for their going also. Therefore, understand it for sure that I
did not come out of season and will not go out of season. Do not combat
the Lord. It is not in your power to destroy me."
[Tohfa Golarwiyya pp.12-13
Shakeel Virk
Kazi Hassan Imam
Arabela Arifovic (zai...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: Asselam-o-Aleikum
Sorry. I can't reply a non-Muslim.
: I really hope and pray that may Allah forgive you for stating such lies
: about Ahmadis.
Likewise I too wish that Allah could forgive you for your apostasy.
Ahmadies are apostates. Genghis was right all the way.
: Please pray that may He show you the true path, that is the path of Ahmadiyyat.
Astagfirullah!
La Hawola wala......
Ahmadiyat is Kufar! Sheer Kufar!
Beware! Beware!!
--
Parvez
265, Dixon Road #1209, Etobicoke M9R 1R7
Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Tel: (416) 245-1463, E-mail: ct...@freenet.toronto.on.ca
Ahmad Farid
Kazi Hassan Imam (ct...@torfree.net) wrote:
As-Salamo Alaikum,
: : I really hope and pray that may Allah forgive you for stating such lies
: : about Ahmadis.
:
: Likewise I too wish that Allah could forgive you for your apostasy.
As long as you admitt that the words in question are lies.
We however do not admitt to apostasy.
There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad (pbuh) is His Messenger.
Is this apostasy ?
Was-Salam
Audil Virk (my opinions)
Ahmad Farid
Thomas Crescenzi (w...@cris.com) wrote:
As-Salamo Alaikum,
: the plagued history of al-ahmadiyya can leave no doubt to the truth of
: allah's existence and power and continued watch over us..
The plagued history of the Ahmadiyya Muslims ????
The history of the Ahmadi Muslims is a sign in itself and testifies to the truth of
Ahmadi Muslims.
The ignorance of the above writer concerning this topic, is revealed even to those
who have a sketchy and superficial knowledge of Ahmadi Muslim history.
The acomplishments of Ahmadi Muslims shine like the sun.
For example:
Dr.Abdus Salam, Nobel Laureate, who recently passed away was a follower of Hazrat
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, and an Ahmadi Muslim.
World renowned for his knowledge in physics.
Out of the whole Muslim Ummah, only Ahmadi Muslims have set up a global satellite
system to provide Muslim television, where the Qur'an is taught and hadith, and
question answer session with all types of people and faiths etc...
I myself can view these shows in my home, as do many Ahmadi Muslims.
The number of people accepting the truth of Hazrat Ahmad has reached the millions
per year, and last year it was 1.6 million people.
The rate of growth of Ahmadi Muslims is on par with early Islam.
Hazrat Ahmad predicted his victory at a time when he was not known at all, and
lived in a hamlet (small,small village) called Qadian, India.
Now, even you know this city and his name.
Since, Hazrat Ahmad's claims, people have made up lies and a huge amount of
opposition has stood in his way, yet instead of being harmed by this opposition, it
only adds to the effect of Ahmadi Muslim claims.
In the realm of Islam and Muslims, who is taking the lead and forefront ?
There is no doubt that Muslims are lost and are floundering about.
The one sect which stands out, is the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam.
Organized and posessor of highly motivated and convinced people.
Their arguments destroy falsehood and convince the rational mind.
Those who doubt, should come as seekers of truth and investigate sincerley the
claims of Hazrat Ahmad.
Allah knows best.
The Turbaned Leprechaun
On 6 Mar 1997, Kazi Hassan Imam wrote:
> Date: 6 MAR 1997 09:53:11 -0800
> From: Kazi Hassan Imam <ct...@torfree.net>
> Newgroups: soc.religion.islam
> Subject: Re: QADIANIS
>
> Arabela Arifovic (zai...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>
> : Asselam-o-Aleikum
>
> Sorry. I can't reply a non-Muslim.
What childish drivel. Learn a little about the Quran and Sunnah,
brother! The Holy Prophet instructed Hazrat Aisha to respond to all people
with "walaykum asalaam",even when the people involved were Jews who were
saying "Death be with you" instead of "Peace be with you"!
Yet another example of an overzealous Muslim who tries to compensate for
a lack of knowledge of both Islam and the simple facts of the Ahmadi case
by being a hardliner. You might want to consider starting with the man
in the mirror before you preach to us.
The day will come when you will be ashamed of your childish and
un-Islamic behavior. Hopefully in this life.
One doesn't have to be an Ahmadi to behave civilly when dealing with
Ahmadis. This is also part of Islam, I'm happy to inform you.
>
> : I really hope and pray that may Allah forgive you for stating such lies
> : about Ahmadis.
>
> Likewise I too wish that Allah could forgive you for your apostasy.
> Ahmadies are apostates. Genghis was right all the way.
>
> : Please pray that may He show you the true path, that is the path of Ahmadiyyat.
>
> Astagfirullah!
> La Hawola wala......
> Ahmadiyat is Kufar! Sheer Kufar!
> Beware! Beware!!
>
Do you know *anything* about this topic other than what you've heard in a
few khutbahs over the years?
One can disagree with Ahmadiyyah's ideas, but there is no basis whatsoever
for calling them kaffirs. Don't mistake your own petty hatreds for
Islamic doctrines, brother.
If you want to learn a little about this topic, which is obviously unfamilar
to you, check out http:///members.aol.com/aaiil
Wasalaam.
s v e n d
******************************************************************
*Svend A. White * "Hated by fools and fools to hate/ *
*swh...@goucher.edu * Be that ever my motto and my fate."*
*Svend...@compuserve.com* ---Swift *
******************************************************************
Thomas Crescenzi
The Turbaned Leprechaun wrote:
> What childish drivel. Learn a little about the Quran and Sunnah,
> brother! The Holy Prophet instructed Hazrat Aisha to respond to all people
> with "walaykum asalaam",even when the people involved were Jews who were
> saying "Death be with you" instead of "Peace be with you"!
actually the reply to the jews who were saying "al-saamu `alaykum" was
simply "`alaykum".. NOT "`alaykum salaam"..
do the ahmadis go out of their way to separate themselves from islam? i
mean, this is even something that crosses sectarian boundaries.. as far
as i know, all schools of islamic thought forbid replying "wa`laykum
salaam" to a kaffir.. the recommended reply is simply "wa`laykum"..
> Yet another example of an overzealous Muslim who tries to compensate for
> a lack of knowledge of both Islam and the simple facts of the Ahmadi case
> by being a hardliner. You might want to consider starting with the man
> in the mirror before you preach to us.
it's too bad mirza ghulam is dead because that would be excellent advice
to give him! it was only through his overzealousness and lack of
knowledge of islam that he distorted islam into a religion which is no
more recognizable as islam as the baha'i faith.. he should have worked
on his own islam before he led so many people away from it..
> One doesn't have to be an Ahmadi to behave civilly when dealing with
> Ahmadis. This is also part of Islam, I'm happy to inform you.
actually, islam tells us to be firm with the kuffar and harsh with
al-munafiqeen.. the followers of mirza ghulam should be treated as the
followers of musaylama were.. after all, their situation is identical..
followers of a false prophet..
reza
w...@cris.com
The Turbaned Leprechaun
On 10 Mar 1997, Thomas Crescenzi wrote:
> actually the reply to the jews who were saying "al-saamu `alaykum" was
> simply "`alaykum".. NOT "`alaykum salaam"..
I think you're wrong here. I do not have the reference handy, though.
Does anybody out there have the citation?
> do the ahmadis go out of their way to separate themselves from islam? i
> mean, this is even something that crosses sectarian boundaries.. as far
> as i know, all schools of islamic thought forbid replying "wa`laykum
> salaam" to a kaffir.. the recommended reply is simply "wa`laykum"..
>
> > Yet another example of an overzealous Muslim who tries to compensate for
> > a lack of knowledge of both Islam and the simple facts of the Ahmadi case
> > by being a hardliner. You might want to consider starting with the man
> > in the mirror before you preach to us.
>
> it's too bad mirza ghulam is dead because that would be excellent advice
> to give him! it was only through his overzealousness and lack of
> knowledge of islam that he distorted islam into a religion which is no
> more recognizable as islam as the baha'i faith.. he should have worked
> on his own islam before he led so many people away from it..
Boy, you've been taken hook-line-and-sinker by the propaganda and
disinformation of the mullahs here.
Here you're just mindlessly repeating the slogans of reactionary
pseudo-fighters for Islam. How can you say that Ahmadiyyah is as far
from Islam as Bahaism when Ahmadis from both groups do everything that
you and I do as Muslims?
Do Bahais say "Laa ilaha il Allah, Muhammad ur-Rasul Allah"?
Do Bahais make salat 5 times a day?
Do Bahais fast during Ramadhan?
Do Bahais give zakat?
Do Bahais make Hajj?
Do Bahais read from the Quran when they pray?
Do Bahais abstain from pork?
Do Bahais abstain from alcohol?
Do Bahais women wear the hijab?
Please explain how your sloppy, illogical comparison makes any sense
whatsoever. I'm sure our readers would be interested to discover these
secret Bahai practices!
While you're at it, please tell us what Ahmadis do which makes them
un-Islamic.
> > One doesn't have to be an Ahmadi to behave civilly when dealing with
> > Ahmadis. This is also part of Islam, I'm happy to inform you.
>
> actually, islam tells us to be firm with the kuffar and harsh with
> al-munafiqeen.. the followers of mirza ghulam should be treated as the
> followers of musaylama were.. after all, their situation is identical..
> followers of a false prophet..
My assumption is that you consider Alama Iqbal not only a real Muslim,
but a good judge of character.
Well, here are some facts for you concerning Mirza Ghulam Ahmad: upon
his death in 1908, telegrams streamed in from all over the Muslim
world. Muhammad Iqbal not only respected MGA, but he often consulted
him on matters of religious doctrine and even once referred to him as
the most profound Islamic thinker of the time.
Iqbal respected this "heretic" so much that he sent his *son* to study in
Qadian. Do you have an explanation for this fact?
MGA's moral character was not questioned by his contemporaries, even
those that did not accept his claim of being his century's reformer.
Quite to the contrary, he was respected by Ahmadi and non-Ahmadi alike
as a great fighter for Islam againt Christian Imperialism.
When, after Bashir-ud-Deen's takeover of the Ahmadiyyah movement in
1914 (6 years after MGA's death), Iqbal began to attack Ahmadiyya, he
*never* criticized MGA. He was disillusioned with the heretical
doctrines of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's "successor", not Mirza Sahib. In
other words, his criticisms were of the organization which developed
after 1914, not of the organization's founder.
The heretical ideas concerning Prophethood, the Khalifat, funeral
prayers for non-Ahmadis, etc., which are now associated with
Ahmadiyyah in the Islamic mainstream were not formulated by Mirza
Ghulam Ahmad, but rather by Bashir-ud-Deen, his son and
less-than-faithful successor.
Think what you like about Ahmadis (you obviously don't know your basic
facts--there are two groups; for your information, the Qadianis view
MGA as a prophet, while the Lahoris vigorously deny this, stressing
that he was merely a mujaddid/reformer), but don't besmirch the name
of a Muslim who did more work for Islam in his lifetime and had more
respect among the Muslims of his day than any of us.
If you're so certain that MGA was simply a kaffir heretic, then I ask
you to explain how it was that the most respected Muslims of his day
in the Subcontinent considered him a *model Muslim*. If great Muslims
like Alama Iqbal didn't think that he claimed prophethood, then how is
it that you think he did?
In fact, he did not claim prophethood. Not only did he actively deny
being a prophet, but he instructed his followers not to use words like
*nabi* or *rasul* metaphorically (which is common in the Islamic
tradition).
He even explicitly stated that any claimant to prophethood after the
Holy Prophet (pbuh) was a *kaffir*. How much more clear does it need
to be for you??
SO, DO YOU KNOW HIM BETTER THAN HIS CONTEMPORARIES? Or do you just
know a few lies and half-truths that the mullahs fed you to work you
up?
Judging by your lack of knowledge, I must assume the latter.
Remember the "boomerang effect" of takfir: when you call another
Muslim a kaffir when that Muslim is actually a believer, then *you*
become the kaffir.
If you don't know what you're talking about, then, please, keep silent.
However, if you must speak out, please do us all a favor and answer my
questions.
Again, if you have any interest in the truth about this
subject, take a look at http://members.aol.com/aaiil
Virk Shakeel
Thomas Crescenzi (w...@cris.com) wrote:
: The Turbaned Leprechaun wrote:
: it's too bad mirza ghulam is dead because that would be excellent advice
: to give him! it was only through his overzealousness and lack of
: knowledge of islam that he distorted islam into a religion which is no
: more recognizable as islam as the baha'i faith.. he should have worked
: on his own islam before he led so many people away from it..
Being an anti-Ahmadi promoter who never met Hazrat Ahmad your opinion
means little, and you must admit you are not speaking from a position of
knowledge nor authority.
One non-bias way to determine what type of person Hazrat Ahmad was,
is to examine carefully what NON-AHMADIS who LIVED AT THE TIME OF HAZRAT
AHMAD had to say about him.
Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, a NON AHMADI, who was a scholar in his own right,
and acting editor of the well known newspaper VAKEEL, Amritsar wrote:
"That person, a very great preson whose pen had magic in it and a
tongue which spell-bound its hearers; that person whose brain was a
combination of wonders, whose eye-sight was far reaching and whose voice
was like a resurrection and whose fingers entwined in the wires of
spiritual revolution, with fists like two well charged batteries; that
person who for thirty years was like a spiritual earthquake and storm in
the world of religion; and that person who, like a trumpet on the Last
Day awakened those who were lost in the slumber of worldly life... has
passed away peacefully."
Again, he writes:
"The demise of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is not such that a lesson should not be
learnt from it... Such people who bring a revolution into the
intellectual and religious world do not appear in the world often. Such
worthy historical revolutionary figures rarely come on the world scene,
and when they are deputed they bring about a memorable revolution in the
world... Whereas the greatnes of Mirza Saheb is recognized, there being
serious differences in terms of his certain claims and beliefs, his
passing away has reminded the educated and elite Muslims that A GREAT MAN
FROM US HAS FOR EVER LEFT THIS WORLD. AND WITH HIM THE OUTSTANDING
DEFENSE OF ISLAM AGAINST THE OPPONENTS, WHICH WAS LINKED WITH HIS PERSON
HAS COME TO AN END...His pecularity wherein he fulfilled the duty of a
victorious general of Islam against its enemies compels us to openly
recognize his services for Islam.
Mirza Saheb's literature produced against the Christians and Aryas has
recieved general approval and acceptance, AND IN THIS UNIQUENESS HE
STANDS IN NEED OF NO INTRODUCTION. We have to recognize from our heart
the value and the greatness of such literature now that it has completed
its task...IN THE FUTURE THERE IS NO HOPE THAT A PERSON OF SUCH GREATNESS
WILL EVER AGAIN BE BORN IN INDIA. (Vakeel, Armitsar)
*****************************************************************************
Maulan Al-Imdadi was the permanent editor of the Vakeel, Amritsar.
He wrote:
"Even though Mirza Saheb did not recieve any formal education in general
history and theology but he had attained a complete mastery over
religious literature by means of self study. It is evident from a
general assesment of his life that HE POSESSED A UNIQE DISPOSITION NOT
GRANTED TO EVERYONE...HE LED THE LIFE OF A TRUE AND PIOUS MUSLIM...His
debates in Hoshiarpur in 1866 were so lively and delightful that the
feeling of enjoyment has not so far been forgotten.
AS FAR AS HIS CHARACTER IS CONCERNED, THERE IS NOT THE SLIGHTEST TRACE OF
BLOT ON IT. He lived and passed his life in virture and righteousness.
In a word, the first fifty years of the life of Mirza Saheb in terms of
high moral character, services for and in favour of Islam, raised him to
a commendable position of distinction and honour among the Muslims of
India." (Vakeel, Amritsar, May 30, 1908)
***************************************************************************
Mirza Hairat Dehlvi was the Editor of the Carson Gazette.
He wrote:
"The outstanding services of the deceased for Islam which he rendered
confronting Christians and Ayryas are worthy of the highest praise and
appreciation. He changed the style of debate completley and laid the
foundation of a new type of literature in India. WE ADMITT NOT ONLY AS
BEING A MUSLIM BUT ALSO AS A RESEARCHER THAT NEITHER ANY TOP MOST LEADER
OF ARYAS OR CHRISTIANS MISSONARY COULD DARE EMPLOY HIS TONGUE TO CONFRONT
MIRZA SAHEB. He gave sharp replies to the opponents of Islam and we have
not seen either any sensible reply or any rational refutation on the part
of the Aryas or Christians.
Even the deceased was a Punjabi yet his pen was full of so much power
that today in the whole of Punjab, rather in the whole of India, there is
not a single prolific and forceful author to match him. And speaking
truthfully one goes to a state of ecstasy on reading some of his
writings. Although he did not recieve any formal education in Arabic
language of grammar yet he gained such a proficiency in Arabic by God
given intellect and disposition that he could write it quite fluently."
(Carson Gazette, Dehli, June 1, 1908)
***************************************************************************
Shamsul Ulama Maulana Syed Mumtaz Ali was the editor of the magazine,
Tahzib-i-Niswan, published from Lahore.
He wrote:
"The deceased Mirza Saheb WAS A PIOUS AND AN EXALTED HOLY MAN. He was
endowed with such a noble and spiritual power that it would captivate
even the austeres. HE WAS A VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE RELIGIOUS SCHOLAR, A
REFORMER WITH GREAT DETERMINATION, A MODEL FOR A VIRTUOUS LIFE.
Religiously we do not accept him as the Promised Messiah but his guidance
and spiritual directions were certainly Messianic for the spiritually dead."
*************************************************************************
Munshi Shirajud Din was the founder of the newspaper Zamindar and
father of its editor Maulvi Zafar Ali Khan.
Munshi Saheb wrote:
"Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a clerk in 1880 in the district of Sialkot. He
was 22 or 23 of age at that time. WE CAN SAY FROM PERSONAL EVIDENCE, THAT
EVEN AT THE PRIME OF HIS YOUTH, MIRZA SAHEB WAS A VIRTUOUS AND RIGHTEOUS
PERSON. He did not mix up with people in general. I had the hour of
being his guest one night in Qadian in 1877. In those days also, he was
so engrossed in worship as well as devotion that he conversed little even
with his guests. Even though personally we do not have the honour of
accepting his claim to be the Promised Messiah and the revelations that
he recieved BUT WE CONSIDER HIM A STAUNCH MUSLIM.
(Zamindar, Lahore, June 8, 1908)
*****************************************************************************
The Arya Samaj who were bitter enemies of Hazrat Ahmad published in their
newspaper, the Indar:
"Mirza Saheb resembled with Hazrat Muhammad in one quality--And that
quality was his steadfastness of whatever he pursued. We are happy that
he kept this quality to his last breath. HE NEVER APPEARED TO HAVE BEEN
SHAKEN EVEN WHEN THERE WERE THOUSANDS OF HOSTILE CONDITIONS."
*****************************************************************************
The editor of another Arya Samajist newspaper, the Arya, wrote:
"Mirza Saheb's beliefs in Islam were more acceptable and tolerable than
the beliefs held generally by other Muslims. However, Mirza Saheb's
relationship never became cordial with the Arya Samahists. As such,
whenever we look back at our past history, we become very emotional as we
remember him."
*****************************************************************************
Maulvi Bashirud Din was editor of the publication Sadiq-ul-Akbar and
wrote:
"Inasmuch as Mirza Saheb left no stone upturned in the serivce of Islam
upholding its cause to the utmost extent by means of his forceful
speeches, impressive criticism of the opponents of Islam, silencing them
forever and proving that the truth of Islam is the absolute truth.
JUSTICE REQUIRES THAT ONE SHOULD CONDOLE THE SUDDEN AND UNTIMELY DEMISE
OF SUCH A CHAMPION OF ISLAM, HELPER OF THE MUSLIMS, AN OUTSTANDING AND
IRREPLACEABLE RELIGIOUS SCHOLAR"
(Sadiq-ul-Akhbar, May 1908)
******************************************************************************
Maulvi Syed Waheed-ud-Din was the editor of the Algirah Institute Gazette.
He wrote:
"Mirza Saheb was specially renowned for his knowledge and scholarship.
His writings were very eloquent. INDEED WE ARE GRIEVED BY HIS DEATH
BECAUSE HE WAS A MUSLIM. WE BELIEVE THAT A GREAT RELIGIOUS LEADER HAS
BEEN TAKEN AWAY FROM THIS WORLD"
(Municpal Gazette, Lahore, 1908)
Shakeel Virk
Thomas Crescenzi
interesting.. many (if not all) of these people may not have been
ahmadis when they said those things, but they eventually became ahmadis
(bashiruddeen actually became leader of the ahmadi movement at one time)
so there appears to be some bias.. how about the opinions of some
muslims of mirza ghulam's time who did NOT become ahmadis themselves?
reza
w...@cris.com
Thomas Crescenzi
The Turbaned Leprechaun wrote:
>
> Do Bahais say "Laa ilaha il Allah, Muhammad ur-Rasul Allah"?
i don't know if they do, but they most certainly could since they
believe in the unity of allah and that muhammad was an apostle of
allah.. their fault is that they believe in certain parts of the epistle
and deny others (such as the finality of prophecy, which incidentally
goes for the ahmadis as well)..
> Do Bahais read from the Quran when they pray?
yes, they do
> Do Bahais abstain from pork?
> Do Bahais abstain from alcohol?
i know that many do, although i'm not sure if this is a religious
compulsion or a personal matter..
> While you're at it, please tell us what Ahmadis do which makes them
> un-Islamic.
here's the short list:
1) the qur'an forbids taking jews and christians for awliyaa'.. mirza
ghulam was a staunch ally of the british imperialists in india
2) the qur'an states that muhammad is the "seal" or "closure" of the
prophets.. mirza ghulam claimed prophecy for himself and tried to get
around this ayah of qur'an by saying that he was an incarnation of jesus
(borrowing a hindhu belief of awtar) and since jesus was born before
muhammad, muhammad was still technically the "last" of the prophets..
3) mirza ghulam rejected all the unanimously accepted ahaadeeth
regarding jesus' return to earth, yet accepts a hadeeth which is agreed
by most scholars of most mazahib to be fabricated about an eclipse and
uses this as proof (even though it was impossible to have occurred and
no astronomer has ever recorded its instance) for his being the mahdi..
4) he changed his name to ahmad because of a hadeeth which states that
the mahdi's name shall be the same as that of muhammad..
5) his assertion that jesus is dead is completely unfounded and has no
recorded proof except for mirza ghulam's own imagination..
> that he was merely a mujaddid/reformer), but don't besmirch the name
> of a Muslim who did more work for Islam in his lifetime and had more
> respect among the Muslims of his day than any of us.
a lot of people came to islam directly or indirectly through elijah
muhammad, who bears a lot of resemblance to mirza ghulam in that he not
only proclaimed himself to be a prophet, but a reincarnation of a
prophet (elijah muhammad claimed to be muhammad bin `abdillah).. so i
think it is fitting we respect mirza ghulam as much as we do elijah
muhammad.. that is, not at all.
> In fact, he did not claim prophethood. Not only did he actively deny
> being a prophet, but he instructed his followers not to use words like
> *nabi* or *rasul* metaphorically (which is common in the Islamic
> tradition).
really? it's common? i can't seem to recall anyone but anbiyaa or
mursaloon being called by those titles.. i never heard of imam `ali or
al-hasanayn or shaykh tabarsi or ayatollah khui or anyone for that
matter from the time of the prophet to the present referred to as
"rasool" or "nabee".. i can't imagine anyone writing an obituary for
the great shaykh (rahimahullah) tabatabaa'i saying "he was a real
nabee"..!!??
> He even explicitly stated that any claimant to prophethood after the
> Holy Prophet (pbuh) was a *kaffir*. How much more clear does it need
> to be for you??
well, he thought he was jesus.. so in his mind, he came before
muhammad.. that was his justification.. how can you believe such a man?
is he a hindhu or a muslim?!
> Remember the "boomerang effect" of takfir: when you call another
> Muslim a kaffir when that Muslim is actually a believer, then *you*
> become the kaffir.
yes, and i'm rubber, you're glue.. the truth is that mirza ghulam
started a new religion.. you may believe in what came before mirza
ghulam but your belief in his claims requires that you disbelieve in
some major tenets of islam that are inscribed in the qur'an, such as the
finality of prophethood and completeness of the deen.. the arabic word
for this disbelief is "kufr".. and one who espouses "kufr" is a
"kaffir".. so that makes you a kafir.. any idiot could have done what
mirza ghulam did.. read half the qur'an and some fabricated ahaadeeth
and make some false claims and invent whatever you don't know.. but you
are not a kafir for following an idiot.. you are a kafir for
disbelieving in the message of allah which muhammad spoke, even in
part.. not only is there the ayah of the finality of prophethood but
many ahaadeeth which state that muhammad told `ali that his relationship
to him is like aaron's to moses, except that there is no prophet after
muhammad! and what about the last ayah to be revealed, which states
that on that day the religion was completed and called "islam".. not
that the religion would be complete a milennium later and be called
"ahmadiyya"..
reza
w...@cris.com
The Turbaned Leprechaun
> Date: 12 MAR 1997 15:26:37 GMT
> From: Virk Shakeel <3s...@qlink.queensu.ca>
> Newgroups: soc.religion.islam
> Subject: Re: QADIANIS
>
> : The Turbaned Leprechaun wrote:
>
> : it's too bad mirza ghulam is dead because that would be excellent advice
> : to give him! it was only through his overzealousness and lack of
> : knowledge of islam that he distorted islam into a religion which is no
> : more recognizable as islam as the baha'i faith.. he should have worked
> : on his own islam before he led so many people away from it..
For the record, I most certainly did not write that! In fact, my posting
was criticizing that nonsense! Please be more careful in your
attributions.
While we'd probably have some disagreements on the post-1914 history of
Ahmadiyyah (i.e., the direction of the movement under Bashir-ud-Deen/Mahmud
Ahmad's leadership) since I'm not a Qadiani, I'm grateful to Br. Shakeel
Virk for his excellent overview of the view of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad held by his actual
contemporaries.
People who slander MGA simply don't their history.
The Turbaned Leprechaun
On 13 Mar 1997, Thomas Crescenzi wrote:
> Date: 13 MAR 1997 16:36:25 GMT
> From: Thomas Crescenzi <w...@cris.com>
> Newgroups: soc.religion.islam
> Subject: Re: QADIANIS
>
First off, the assumption behind this question is not entirely logical,
as the prominent Muslim leaders and thinkers who praised Mirza Sahib upon
his death weren't somehow "closet Ahmadis" or "latent Ahmadis" who'd
infiltrated the Ummah; to the contrary, the fact that they wrote these
glowing obituaries of MGA in mainstream Islamic journals shows that
respect for him was the *norm* among his contemporaries.
MGA's more controversial reforms of the Islamic thought of his day (e.g.,
that Jesus died a natural death after migrating to Kashmir, rather than
being bodily raised into the heavens--an idea which can now be found among
respected Sunni scholars; or that jihad
could only be in self-defense, a once "heretical" view which is now
universally accepted by Islamic scholars) raised the hackles of some
conservative mullahs, but his personal piety was not questioned. He was
seen as a model Muslim.
Even assuming that a few writers or Islamic leaders were under MGA's
sway when they made these positive comments, the fact remains that these
comments weren't controversial or challenged.
Imagine if a journalist at the New York Times penned an article where
the Palestinian terrorist Abu Nidal was praised as a freedom fighter and
spiritual leader.
First of all, the NYT's editor would never run an article
which so completely contradicted the commonly accepted view of Abud
Nidal, so we'd never even see it in print.
Assuming that the editor somehow dared to run the article, there'd
probably be a countervailing article on the same page to "balance" things.
Finally, such an article would ignite a cataclyimic firestorm of
criticism and controversy. Imagine all the irate letters from
individuals and organizations!
My point is that nothing like this happened when these obituaries
appeared in 1908. From a historical vantage point, it is obvious that
the opinion that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a pious Muslim and a dedicated
fighter for Islam against Imperialism was ***NOT*** controversial. If
you believe that he was a Zionist spy, hypocrite, Dajal, or whatever, you
need to explain how you know him so much better than his community.
Thus, the disgusting slanders that you wade through at anti-Ahmadi sites
and in anti-Ahmadi literature have no historical basis.
I'll put it another way: if we assume that the feverish claims put
out by anti-Ahmadi crusaders--e.g., that MGA was homosexual (you see, say
some overzealous mullahs, his repudiation of offensive jihad, an
eminently manly concept, proves his "feminine side" was dominant)--are true,
then we must be ready to indict the intellegence and Islamic faith of
some of the Indian Ummah's most respected figures since they respected
him.
Enough said...
Wasalaam.
s v e n d
PS. As usual, I direct the curious to http://members.aol.com/aaiil
Ahmad Farid
7l4$8...@shell3.ba.best.com> <5g1f3o$b...@shell3.ba.best.com> <5g6ie8$r...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>
Distribution:
The Turbaned Leprechaun (swh...@goucher.edu) wrote:
As-Salamo Alaikum,
: The heretical ideas concerning Prophethood,
Firstly, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be the Promised Messiah.
If the claim is true, this in it self means he is Prophet according to
hadith found in Sahih Muslim.
Secondly Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's own words:
" I say that it is a manifestation of the spiritual power of the Holy
Prophet and of his everlasting Prophethood that 1300 years after him, the
PROMISED MESSIAH has appeared under his training and instructions with the
same seal of Prophethood. If this doctrine is kufr, I hold this kufr
dear." (Al-Hakam, 10 June 19905, p.2)
"Its [teachings of Muhammad (pbuh)] perfect followers cannot be called
simply a Prophet for this would be an insult to the perfect Muhammadi
Prophethood.
HE CAN BE CALLED A FOLLOWER OF THE HOLY PROPHET AND A PROPHET, BOTH
TOGETHER, FOR IN THIS THERE IS NO INSULT OF THE PERFECT MUHAHMMADI
PROPHETHOOD, BUT ITS GRACE SHINES FORTH EVEN TO A GREATER DEGREE."
(Al-Wasiyyat, pp.17-18)
"Direct Prophethood has been ended with the Holy Prophet, peace be upon
him; but Prophethood by way of reflection, which means the receipt of
revelation through the grace of Muhammad, will continue till the Day of
Judgement so that..." (Haqiqatul Wah, pp.27-28)
"It is only by the testimony of his [Muhammad (pbuh)] seal that a
PROPHETHOOD CAN BE BESTOWED FOR WHICH IT IS A CONDITION THAT THE
RECEIPIENT MUST BE A FOLLOWER OF THE HOLY PROPHET."
(same reference as above)
It is in this manner Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be a Prophet, a
subordinate Prophet to Muhammad (pbuh), the Promised Messiah; return of
Jesus, the Madhi.
Many times this has been explained by Hazrat Ahmad, and Ahmadi Muslims
deny that Hazrat Ahmad claimed to be a Prophet in any other way.
And Hazrat Ahmad has denied Prophethood without Muhammad (pbuh).
His claim is that he is a subordinate Prophet and a follower of Muhammad
(pbuh).
: He even explicitly stated that any claimant to prophethood after the
: Holy Prophet (pbuh) was a *kaffir*. How much more clear does it need
: to be for you??
Any claimant who does not claim his Prophethood is due to following
Muhammad (pbuh), is more precise and in context.
And more clear.
I agree many times Hazrat Ahmad has denied Prophethood and even called the
claimants of Prophethood false.
But only in the sense that their claims are based on not being followers
of Muhammad (pbuh).
This is the proper context.
Virk Shakeel
: > While you're at it, please tell us what Ahmadis do which makes them
: > un-Islamic.
:
: here's the short list:
: 2) the qur'an states that muhammad is the "seal" or "closure" of the
: prophets.. mirza ghulam claimed prophecy for himself and tried to get
: around this ayah of qur'an by saying that he was an incarnation of jesus
: (borrowing a hindhu belief of awtar) and since jesus was born before
: muhammad, muhammad was still technically the "last" of the prophets..
You see your knowledge is full of errors about Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad,
no wonder you think he was false.
First Hazrat Ahmad never claimed to be the 'reincarnation of Jesus'.
Second Hazrat Ahmad claimed he fulfilled the prophecies regarding
the Second Coming of Jesus, and hadiths refer to this person as Prophet of
God. So if anybody claims to have fulfilled the Second Coming of Jesus,
and says he is NOT a Prophet, we automatically know he must be false,
because Hadiths refer to him as Prophet of God.
Third how could Hazrat Ahmad possible fulfill the Second Coming of Jesus,
when he is an entirely different person then the Jesus of 2000 years ago ?
According to the Jewish scriptures [Old Testament]:
"Elijah ascended to heaven in a chariot of fire and horses of fire" [2
King 2:11]
Now according to Jewish law Elijah was to ascend before the Messiah, but
Jesus claimed to be the Messiah, and Jews said he can't be the Messiah
becasue Elijah has not yet come!
Jesus gave an excellent answer, and we find it recorded in the New Testament.
His answer is as follows:
We read in Matthew 17:10-13, the following:
"Then the disciples asked Jesus, 'Why do the teachers of the Law say that
Elijah has to come first ?'
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
'Elijah is indeed come first,' answered Jesus,
'and he will get everything ready.
But I tell you that Elijah has already come and people did not
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
recognize him, but treated him just as
they pleased. In the same way they will mistreat the Son of Man.'
Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about
John the Baptist."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[Matthew 17:10-13]
How could Elijah equal John the Baptist, argued the Jews. Similarily
how could Jesus equal Ahmad argue the Muslims.
The Traditions report that our beloved Prophet compared the latter-day
ulema of this Ummah to the Pharisees of the Jewis nation. [Shah, Hazrat
Wali Ullah: Al Fauzal Kabir Ch 1 p 9]
This is clear proof, direct from Jesus, himself that "second coming" does
not mean the same person will come from the sky 2000 years later, but
rather someone in his spirit will come. The coming of John the
Baptist according to Jesus himself fulfilled the second coming of
Elijah, in the very same way, the coming of Hazrat Ahmad fulfilled the
second coming of Jesus.
And if you do some research you will find some remarkable similarities
regarding the first Messiah Jesus (pbuh) and the Second Coming of the
Messiah Hazrat Ahmad (pbuh).
Shakeel Virk
Virk Shakeel
: > While you're at it, please tell us what Ahmadis do which makes them
: > un-Islamic.
: here's the short list:
: 4) he changed his name to ahmad because of a hadeeth which states that
: the mahdi's name shall be the same as that of muhammad..
If I can prove that Harzrat Ahmad, never changed his name to Ahmad, then
will you accept that the prophecies regarding the hadiths you mention have
indeed been literally fulfilled by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad ?
Or will you make some other story to deny the truth ?
I am very, very serious. Will you agree that the hadiths you mention are
in fact literally fulfilled by Hazrat Ahmad, if it can be shown that he
did not change his name ?
To begin with why don't you do some research and find out the name of
Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmads father. When you find it, report back to this
newsgroup with what you find.
Thank you.
Shakeel Virk
Virk Shakeel
: > un-Islamic.
:
: here's the short list:
: 3) mirza ghulam rejected all the unanimously accepted ahaadeeth
: regarding jesus' return to earth, yet accepts a hadeeth which is agreed
: by most scholars of most mazahib to be fabricated about an eclipse and
: uses this as proof (even though it was impossible to have occurred and
: no astronomer has ever recorded its instance) for his being the mahdi..
Not so fast Thomas. Just hold it one minute.
You say the following hadiths regarding the prophecy about the Mahdi is
'fabricated' according to 'scholars' ?
"For our Mahdi there are two signs which have never appeared
before since the creation of the heavens and the earth, namely,
the moon will be eclipsed on the first in Ramadhan and the sun will
be eclipsed on the middle in Ramadhan and these signs have not
appeared since the creation of the heavens and the earth."
First name the scholars who say this hadiths is 'fabricated'.
Second name one scholar who said this hadiths was 'fabricated', BEFORE the
sign fufilled in favour of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahamd.
Any anti-Ahmadi 'scholar' can call the Hadiths 'fabricated' AFTER he
realizes it fufilled in favour of Hazrat Ahmad.
Thrid give the criterion for your claim that the Hadiths is 'fabricated',
simply stating it is not good enough. Nor is it good enough to say it is
'fabricated' because if fulfilled in favour of Hazrat Ahmad.
Fourth, the fact that it did fufill in favour of Hazrat Ahmad is a great
testamony to the truth of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), because no
human could have possible foretold this great sign. It is also a great
sign in favour of Islam, not to mention the truth of Hazrat Ahmad.
For those who are not aware of how this sign was fufilled in favour of
Hazrat Ahmad here is some information.
In eminent authority on Hadith Sunan Ad-Darqutni compiled by renowned
Muslim scholar Hazrat Ali bin Umar al-Baghdadi ad-Darqutni, who lived in
the 4th century Hirjra contains the following Hadith, reported by Hazrat
Imam Baaqar Muhammad bin Ali (r.a) which is a prophecy about the Mahdi of
the latter days:
"For our Mahdi there are two signs which have never appeared
before since the creation of the heavens and the earth, namely,
the moon will be eclipsed on the first in Ramadhan and the sun will
be eclipsed on the middle in Ramadhan and these signs have not
appeared since the creation of the heavens and the earth."
We find a similar prophecy but in lesser detail in the Holy Bible:
"But in those days, after that tribulation, the Sun shall be darkened,
and the Moon shall not give her light, and the Stars shall be falling
from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens shall be shaken. And
then shall they see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and
glory." [Mark 13:24, also see Matthew 24:29]
In accordance with the prophecy of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), an
eclipse of the moon occured on 13th of Ramadhan, 1311 Hijra (Islamic
Calander), which was March 21, 1894 A.D., and the eclipse of the sun
occured on the 28th of the same month of Ramadhan ie. April 6, 1894.
This phenomena was repeated in the western hemisphere in the following
year when, on March 11, and 26, 1895 A.D., lunar and solar eclipses,
repectively, occured again at the same appointed dates of the month of
Ramadhan.
[The sighting of these eclipses was reported in the contemporary Indian
press, eg., Azad the Civil and Military Gazette of Lahore, the Pioneer of
Allahabad etc. The details of these eclipses can readily be confirmed
from Oppolzer's Cannon of Eclipses (New York, 1962) and Nautical Almanac,
(London, 1984).]
Hazrat Ahmad wrote:
"And I swear by Almighty God that I am the Promised Messiah and I am the
same person who was promised by the prophets. There is news about me and
my age in the Torah and the Gospel and the Holy Quran. It is stated that
there will be eclipses on the sky and severe plague on the earth."
Some features about the eclipses:
1) The two eclipses occured as described in the prophecy, when a person
had already claimed to be Mahdi existed, and when these signs
appeared, he invoked these heavenly sings in his support.
2) Both the eclipses were specific to the same month of Ramadhan of the
same year.
3) Both eclipses occured on the precise dates of the said month, as
specified in the prophecy.
4) The entire prophecy was fulfilled twice ie. once for the eastern
hemisphere, in 1894 A.D., and the next year for the western hemisphere.
5) It is fascinating to note that when these eclipses were repeated for
the western hemisphere the next year, that although they were not visible
from Qadian, the dates in Qadian were still the same, ie. the 13th and
28th of Ramadhan!
6) The months of the Islamic Calendar begin with the actual sighting of
the new moon, which may vary from place to place. A standard location is
therefore necessary for ascertainig the dates involved in the prophecy.
It is most remarkable that Qadian proved to be the unique standard, for
both hemispheres of the earth. This was so because Hazrat Mirza Ghulam
Ahmad, who claimed to be the Mahdi, and for whose benefit the prophecy
was intended, lived in Qadian.
7) This prophecy was fulfilled not only with respect to the dates but
also the time on which these eclipses occured. Because the lunar eclipse
occured not just on the first of the possible nights but also quite early
in the first part of that night (between 7:00 pm and 9:30 pm, Calcutta
Standard Time) and the solar eclipse occured not only on the middle day
of the three possible days but also near the mid part of the day (between
9:00 am and 11:00 am, Calcutta Standard time)
8) To add to the already noted unusual features of these eclipses, a
further element of rarity was provided, in the context of the solar
eclipse, by the fact that it belonged to the most uncommonly observed
type of solar eclipses the Annular Total type.
Shakeel Virk
Virk Shakeel
: > While you're at it, please tell us what Ahmadis do which makes them
: > un-Islamic.
:
: here's the short list:
: 5) his assertion that jesus is dead is completely unfounded and has no
: recorded proof except for mirza ghulam's own imagination..
The proof can be found directly from the Holy Quran.
Ignore the historical evidence, let's just deal specifically with what the
Holy Quran teaches. You will be amazed at how clearly Hazrat Ahmad showed
that the Holy Quran states Jesus (pbuh) has in fact died.
We read in the Holy Quran:
"And I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them, but
since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou has been the Watcher over them
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
and Thou art Witness over all things." (5:118)
God in the name of Jesus declares that Christians became corrupt after
the death of Jesus. While he lived, they and their beliefs remained
uncorrupt.
And we also read in the Holy Quran:
"O Jesus! indeed I will cause thee to die and exalt thee to Myself, and
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
will clear thee of [the charge of] those who disbelieve, and will place
those who follow thee above those who deny thee, until the Day of
Resurrection." (3:56)
A saying of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in Bukhari (60(The Book of
Prophets)8:3349) states:
On the day of Judgement, some people from my Ummah will be taken towards
Hell, and God will say: do you (Muhammad) not know of what they
did after you. I will say the same thing Jesus said: and I was a witness
of them, but when THOU DIDST CAUSE ME TO DIE Thou wast the watcher over them.
(Fa kaula kamaa kala abdus saleh wa kunto alaihim shahidam ma dumto feehim
falamma tawaffaitani kunta antar rakeeba alaihim)
The Holy Prophet according to himself will say the SAME thing Jesus will
say, which is recorded in the Holy Quran 5:118.
'The significance of the word 'mutawaffi-ka', is 'mumitu-ka', that is,
I will cause thee to die' [Sahih Bukhari: 65.12]
Shakeel Virk
Virk Shakeel
: > From: Virk Shakeel <3s...@qlink.queensu.ca>
: > Newgroups: soc.religion.islam
: > Subject: Re: QADIANIS
: For the record, I most certainly did not write that! In fact, my posting
: was criticizing that nonsense! Please be more careful in your
: attributions.
I am very sorry Svend White, I have posted a 4 or 5 posts in this thread
making the same mistake. I did not realize I had mixed up who was saying
what, and I will try to be more careful in the future. It is done
automatically and it is usually pretty accurate, I am not sure what
happened but from now on I will check to ensure that the correct name is
in the correct spot.
Shakeel Virk
From jk...@euclid.skiles.gatech.edu Mon Mar 17 13:43:12 1997
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From: Jochen Katz <jk...@math.gatech.edu>
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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:15:15 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <1997031721...@math123.coon.gatech.edu>
To: soc-relig...@telerama.lm.com, s...@ariel.vip.best.com
Subject: Re: Jesus in Islam
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Status: ROr
In article <5gjpu9$2...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>,
ghen...@khan.u-net.com writes:
> Part 3. (Christ in Islam)
Ghenghis again posted this parody of Ahmed Deedat. 70% of it is torturing
the Bible text into a Muslim framework. I wonder how that got past the
moderator, but it is always more relevant to have an Islamic interpretation
than a Christian interpretation of the very same verses. I won't even try to
respond.
The rebuttal of this article is at the comprehensive "Ahmed Deedat Rebuttal
Page" at
http://www.math.gatech.edu/~jkatz/Islam/Gilchrist/
for anybody who is interested to see a reasonable Bible exegesis on those
passages.
Jochen Katz
Faiz kabir
Mr.Shakeel Virk,
All the stuff you have posted are worthless as no body will ever be able
to verify them and any one can charge you on that count that you just
fabricated them to fool others. More over there many more articles by
people of Mirza Golam's time exposing his fraudulence in this net. Why
don't you post them side by side??????
By the by how many qadianis are there in this world?? Don't say there
are 1.3 billon.And what about Rashad Latif's claim. Do you visit his
home page??
Do visit it and you will find how pathetic it is to claim something
which is false. No doubt your Mirza and Rashad Latif are all modern
prophets taking special pose in modern dress to be photographed so that
you can get some idea as to how to dress up. Your current leader plays
Tennis and that is also posted in net. Good. What next??????????
Faiz Kabir
Virk Shakeel wrote:
> Thomas Crescenzi (w...@cris.com) wrote:
: The Turbaned Leprechaun wrote:
: it's too bad mirza ghulam is dead because that would be excellent
advice
: to give him! it was only through his overzealousness and lack of
: knowledge of islam that he distorted islam into a religion which is
no
: more recognizable as islam as the baha'i faith.. he should have
worked
: on his own islam before he led so many people away from it..
> Being an anti-Ahmadi promoter who never met Hazrat Ahmad your opinion
> means little, and you must admit you are not speaking from a position of
> knowledge nor authority.
(stuff deleted)
>Shakeel Virk
Rasheed A. Khalid
In article <5fn0a7$6...@shell3.ba.best.com> ct...@torfree.net (Kazi Hassan Imam) writes:
>Arabela Arifovic (zai...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>
>: Asselam-o-Aleikum
>
>Sorry. I can't reply a non-Muslim.
This is counterproductive. If we turn ourselves away from
"non-believers" (for the sake of argument, 'coz I don't believe
Ahmadis are non-believers), how will they know the beauty of Islam.
They will run farther away from a religion practised by one who does
not even answer greetings than be attracted toward it. Once a
Jew died and when his funeral procession was passing by where the Holy
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was sitting with some of his companions (Sahaba),
he (pbuh) stood up with regard till the procession had left the area.
Someone reminded him that the funeral was of a Jew, at which the Holy
Prophet (pbuh) responded by saying: didn't he have life in him? This
indicates how we should show goodness to even those who may be thought
of as opponents. The Holy Quran, the holy book of Muslims says:
IDFA' BILLATEE HIYA AHSAN FA IZALLADHEE BAINAKA WA BAINAHU
'ADAAWATUN KA ANNAHOO WALIYYUN HAMEEM
(meaning: repel evil with what is good and he between whom and
thyself were enmity would become as though he were a warm friend)
So, for non-Muslims reading this posting, please know that this
poster isn't being a true representative of Islam. If you'd like to make
an opinion about Islam and Muslims, please disregard his post and read
Islam more fully. It should be the goal of Muslims to improve the
image of Islam especially in forums and areas where it's become tarnished
rather than do the reverse. Such an attitude is disappointing. Reading
such posts as the one I am replying to compels one to wonder what is so
good about Islam after all, and what really makes Muslims so proud of
their religion if they can't even respond to someone's greetings. So
we should repel evil with what is good and not repel good with what is
evil, please!
>: I really hope and pray that may Allah forgive you for stating such lies
>: about Ahmadis.
>
>Likewise I too wish that Allah could forgive you for your apostasy.
>Ahmadies are apostates. Genghis was right all the way.
"Genghis" was right and the Prophet of Allah was wrong??? (God forbid)
>: Please pray that may He show you the true path, that is the path of Ahmadiyyat.
>
>Astagfirullah!
>La Hawola wala......
>Ahmadiyat is Kufar! Sheer Kufar!
>Beware! Beware!!
beware! Beware! BEWARE! BEWARE!!! - so reminiscent of warnings with which
the walls of the city of Makkah used to resonate during the time when
Muhammad (peace be upon him) had started inviting people toward Islam,
the ultimate Truth. It reminds me of another incident during the life
of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), when he was on his usual walk through
the town and came across an elderly lady with a lot of baggage. He offered
to help and while he was carrying her luggage to her destination, she
began to warn him in his interest, to "beware" of some new guy named
Muhammad in the area who did his magic on the residents and made them
abandon the religion of their forefathers. Muhammad (pbuh) waited till
he had helped her to her destination and then let her know he was Muhammad
himself. The old lady said well, if that were the case, the "magic" had
already done its work on her and she joined Islam instantly. Allahumma
Salli 'Ala Muhammadin Wa Baarik Wa Sallim, Innaka Hameedum Majeed
>--
> Parvez
> 265, Dixon Road #1209, Etobicoke M9R 1R7
> Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
> Tel: (416) 245-1463, E-mail: ct...@freenet.toronto.on.ca
>
Regards,
Rasheed.
Virk Shakeel
Faiz kabir (af...@ped-surg.med.tohoku.ac.jp) wrote:
: Mr.Shakeel Virk,
:
: All the stuff you have posted are worthless as no body will ever be able
: to verify them and any one can charge you on that count that you just
: fabricated them to fool others.
Okay lets try to be fair and look at the situation rationally.
I responded to 4 of Thomas's accusations against Ahmadi Muslims.
1) He claimed Hazrat Ahmad changed his name to Ahmad to fulfill the
prophecies in Hadiths regarding the Promised Messiah.
Since Thomas made the claim the burden directly falls on him to provide
the evidence, and I hope you agree with this. He of course provided no
evidence, so how can you be sure that he did not fabricate this "to fool
others" ?
Again he made the claim, the burden of defending the claim falls on him.
Hazrat Ahmad never changed his name to Ahmad this is false, and hence
Thomas will not be able to provide the evidence for his claim.
2) Thomas claimed the Hadiths regarding the eclipses which where to occur
in favour of the Promised Messiah is a fabricated Hadiths.
Again Thomas made the claim and hence the burden of defending the claim
falls directly on him. He of course provided no evidence.
In response I provided the Hadiths he was refering to and gave reference
so you can check it on your own. On top of this I provided information
regarding the eclipses that occured in favour of Hazrat Ahmad, and gave
references so you can check that the eclipses actually did occur.
3) Thomas said there is no evidence for the Ahmadi claim that Jesus (pbuh)
has already died.
In this case it is Ahmadi's who make the claim that Jesus (pbuh) has
passed away, and hence the burden of defending this claim falls on Ahmadi
Muslims.
For this reason I provided verses directly from the Holy Quran to support
the claim, and also gave the exact Chapter and verse. So if you have a
copy of the Holy Quran you can verify if what I say is true or not.
4) Thomas made the claim that Hazrat Ahmad said he was the 'reincarnation'
of Jesus (pbuh). This is of course is false. But since he made the
claim, the burden of defending the claim again falls directly on him.
In conclusion it can be easily seen that I have in fact defended my
position, and anybody CAN verify my claims. On the other hand Thomas has
not defended his claims, and has provided no evidence for his claims.
So the question that now arises Fiaz, is why do you challenge what I have
posted (with evidence) and claim that I might be out to fool others ?
Another question that now arises Fiaz, is why do you not challenge the
claims by Thomas, after all he has not provided a hint of evidence for his
claims ?
Shakeel Virk
Syed
We (orthodox muslims) must stop the Qadiani religion from expanding. They
are watering down Islam
and are misleading many non-believers into believing they are the true
was set up by the west to dilute Islam and create disunity.
Chirstians.
Allah will ask us all what contributions we have made to stop religions like
these.
Syed Muneer
mun...@flash.net
----------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
Ahmad Farid
Syed (mun...@flash.net) wrote:
As-Salamo Alaikum,
: We (orthodox muslims) must stop the Qadiani religion from expanding.
This is a challenge from Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad that even if the whole
world were to try and stop his message from spreading, they would not be
able to, because his claim to be the Imam Madhi and Promised Messiah are
true.
So, your above statement is more or less the challenge of Hazrat Ahmad.
: The Qadianis must understand that their religion is not true but
: was set up by the west to dilute Islam and create disunity.
It is easy to make wild claims but obviously a lot harder to back them up,
hence we find no proof or evidence for the claim.
At the time of Muhammad (pbuh) and other Prophets, people made up many
stories and even his family was not left free from hateful accusations.
These are all vain attempts to mislead others, but Allah and His
Messengers will prevail, whether the disbelievers like it or not.
: Our religion is being plagued by too many sects.-we are becoming like the
: Chirstians.
No, like the Jews, they too forgot the inner truth of their religion and
only the hard shell of their faith remained and when the Messiah came to
revive their faith they rejected him.
The Muslims too are left with their beards and turbans and circumcisons,
the majority have lost the inner understanding of Islam and when the
Messiah came, they rejected him.
There are many hadith on this subject, the time of the Messiah is when the
Muslims are like the Jews. It does not take Ahmadi Muslims to point this
out, for many Muslims themselves and infact the whole world can see the
conditon of Islam and Muslims.
Do you think Allah would abandon Islam at this point ?
Do you not think this is the time of the Mahdi ?
What greater need is there then now ?
: Allah will ask us all what contributions we have made to stop religions like
: these.
It is enough to follow Islam properly to halt disbelief, hence the rapid
conversion to Islam in the earlier years of Islam and also the rapid
increase of belief in the final years, through the meaning of Ahmadiyyat.
Muhammad and Ahmad being synonymous with Rahman and Rahim.
Arabela Arifovic
****************************************
AHMADIYYAT IS THE TRUE ISLAM
****************************************
http://www.alislam.org
http://www.ahmady.org
http://www.bosnian.org
Rafiq
Syed wrote:
>
> We (orthodox muslims) must stop the Qadiani religion from expanding. They
> are watering down Islam
> and are misleading many non-believers into believing they are the true
> muslims.
Salam 'alaikum,
Not to worry Akhee Syed; Muhammad (SAAW) told us about the Signs of the
Day of Judgement, and one of them was that 30 liars or false prophets
would come, but that they would fail at their attempts since Allah will
never send a new prophet after Muhammad (SAAW). They will have some followers,
but that is not what we should really worry about. Another sign says that
religious knowledge will go away because fewer and fewer scholars will
arise and that ignorance will increase. This has alreay started some time
back--This is a big problem because many Muslims are misled into thinking
this world is so great and the desires of nonbelievers should be theirs
(like money and big houses). Despite all this, the Truth will always
prevail, whether it be in this life or the next.
Raef
AsSalaam Alaikum,
your concern is really appreciated but there is nothing to worry about.
It is true that one gets upset, annoyed and sometimes aggravated but the
truth
can not be covered. The light of Allah can not be put off.
After all Allah is aware of everything and he is in control.
This is his wisdom and all in all it is his will that such people all these
sects and cults are
initiated and sometimes spread. We can not stop it.
Through history sects and cults have nourished and prospered and mainly due
to isolation and ignorance.
That does not mean that we sit and do nothing nor become violent in our
reaction.
The most effective thing we can do is show and explain the truth the sunnah
of the prophet (saaws) that is the only clear cut proof of the truth.
Otherwise any sect or cult can claim anything and insist they are right. We
already have many examples of those.
Avoid bad talk and vainless discussions just explain the truth in the best
way you can be opened minded and do not worry about the end result Allah
will take care of
the rest. Be sincere and honest and always ask for guidance and the truth
and hold fast to it.
This age with all the media and the internet, falsehood as well as the
truth can easily be propagated through the net. But the truth will always
finally prevail.
It is the free choose of any individual to choose his path. Allah knows
best when to take him and show him he truth and if he deserves will guide
him to follow it.
Superstition and following idols in something inherent in human nature due
to Satan influence. If you are born Muslim that does not mean that you are
free from shirk therefore such Moslems mushrek(idolaters) invent the cults
you see around, under Islamic pretense.
But that does not hurt Islam a bit. Islam will prosper and prevail that is
a promises by all to his Prophet Mohammad (saaws).
Syed <mun...@flash.net> wrote in article <5djbhg$o...@shell3.ba.best.com>...
> We (orthodox muslims) must stop the Qadiani religion from expanding.
They
> are watering down Islam
> and are misleading many non-believers into believing they are the true
> muslims. The Qadianis must understand that their religion is not true
but
> was set up by the west to dilute Islam and create disunity.
> Our religion is being plagued by too many sects.-we are becoming like the
> Chirstians.
>
> Allah will ask us all what contributions we have made to stop religions
like
> these.
>
Shahid Halling
Note: This email is a bit lenghty but should provide ample evidence in
exposing the fraud of Qadiyanis.All information here,and more can be
found at the following website:
http://www.nl-marketing.com/netlink/rashid/anti_ahmadiyya.html.
Salam All,
Qadiyanis/Ahmadiyah are all frauds and have nothing at all to do with
the deen of Islam.The so called Khalifah Mirza Tahir Ahmed head of the
Qadiyanis at present labelled the entire Muslim Ummah as disbelievers
and liars and issued a challenge of Mubahila(prayer duel) in
1988!!Subhanallah.Many individuals accepted such as Tahir ul Qadri in
Pakistan and another brother called Syed Abdul Haffez.Mirza Tahir since
then has not replied to any of these acceptances and yet still he
persists in his deviated claim that qadiyanis are true muslims.At the
beginning of this year he again issued a challenge of Mubahila which has
been accepted by brothers who have had no reply from the Qadiyanis.The
Qadiyanis are funded by various Jewish organisations who contibute money
to the qadiyani fund as well as qadiyanis having to donate a part of
their income to the organisation.They have purchased a satellite channel
for their purposes of destroying true Islam.The deviated founder of this
organisation was a one Ghulam Ahmed Mirza of Qadian.Extracts from his
books shows that he was an agent of the West, a drug addict and was one
who Allah ta alah had cursed. Here are some of his saying which can be
found openly in his books:
Mirza Ghulam's relationship with GOD !
"I saw in my vision that I myself am God and believed that it is
true . . . . Godhood penetrated my tissues . . .
and in this state I was saying that We want a new heaven and a new
earth. Thus I created heavens and earth
. ."
(Roohani Khazain vol.13 p.103)
Astagfirullah!
"On one occasion Hazrat Maseeh Mowood(Ghulam Mirza) revealed his
condition that the State of Revelation came upon
him in such a manner as if he is a woman and God has expressed His
power of Virility. Hint is enough for those who can understand."
(Tract No.34, Islami Qurbani p.12 by Qazi Yar Mohammed Qadiani, a
close associate of Mirza Ghulam)
Mirza Ghulam A. Qadiani boasted that his claims are based on (his own
distorted interpretation of Holy Quran and His Own
revelation. He announced:
"Like a waste paper, I discard all those Hadiths (of Holy Prophet PBUH)
which are contradictory to my Revelations and Claims."
(Zamima Nuzool-e-Maseeh, Roohani Khazain Vol 19 p.140)
He abrogated jihad and declared that loyalty to the British Raj is the
religious responsibility of every Muslim and whoever
lifts a sword against them is disobedient of Allah and his Prophet!!!
There is a lot of evidence to suggest that Ghulam Mirza was also a
druggy!!
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani and OPIUM + TONIC WINE
"I remember an incident and which is that I have Diabetes for
several years. I urinate 15-20 times daily and sometimes I
urinate 100, 100 times per day. Due to sugar in urine, I also get
infection in urine and due to excessive urination I
become very weak. Once a friend suggested that Opium is beneficial
in Diabetes, therefore there is no harm if I use it as
medicine. I answered: 'It is very nice of you to have sympathise
with me but if I form a habit of taking Opium than I am
afraid that people will joke that THE FIRST MESSIAH WAS AN
ALCOHOLIC AND THE SECOND ONE AN
OPIUM ADDICT.'"
Urinating 100 times a day!Punishment from Allah no doubt.
Here is a letter from Ghulam Mirza to one of his followers requesting
his to purchase alcohol for him:
"My Beloved Hakeem Muhammad Hussein Saheb,
Assalamo alaikum wa Rehmatullah wa Barakatohu. Presently I am sending
Mian Yar Mohammad.
Purchase yourself all the things that are to be purchased
and buy one bottle of TONIC WINE from the Plommer Shop. But I want TONIC
WINE, make a note of it. Rest is fine. Wassalam.
(signed) Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
Letters of Imam towards Ghulam, p.5, Majmooa-e-Maktoobat Mirza Ghulam
Ahmad towards Hakeem Muhammad Hussain Qureishi Saheb
Qadiani, Owner of Rafeeq-us-Sehat Dispensary, Lahore.
Naseem Da'awat, Roohani Khazain vol.19 p.434-435, by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad
Qadiani.
Mirza Ghulam claims to be better than other Prophets!:
"Many Prophets though have come but I am not less than anyone in
knowledge.
Every Prophet recieved a cup (of knowledge) and my cup given to me
was full to the brim."
(Roohani Khazain vol.18 p.477)
"I have been given that thing which no one has received in both the
worlds."
(Roohani Khazain vol.22, p.715)
"All the different Virtues present in other Prophets, all of them
were present more intensely present in Holy
Prophet (Muhammad SAAW) and now all those virtues have been given
to us by the Holy Prophet and that is
why my name is Adam, Abraham, Moses, Noah, David, Joseph, Solomon,
Yahya (John), Eisa etc...."
(Malfoozat-e-Ahmadiyya vol.4 p.142 by Manzoor Ilahi Qadiani)
Mirza Ghulam's Wahi: "Many Thrones descended from Heavens but your
throne was placed at the highest
level."
(Roohani Khazain vol.22 p.92)
Prayer Duel with Molvi Sanaullah Amratsari in 1907.
Ghulam Mirza Advertises his prayer in Newspapers
whereby he prays to God AlMighty to let the Liar die in the lifetime of
truthful and that the liar's death should either be from Cholera or
Plague, which in his opinion was the sign of Divine Anger.
And guess what?
In 1908 Mirza suddenly developed Cholera. With remorse and
disappointment he uttered his last words to his father in law:
"Mir Sahib! I have developed Epidemic Cholera."
He could not utter any words after that and died
within a short time.
There is a lot more which can be said but I have not the time.The above
I think is enough to prove Qadiyanis have nothing to do with Islam.These
are the words of a brother to the Qadiyanis.
"You desecrate everything sacrosanct to a Muslim! You play with the
sentiments of about 1 Billion
followers and yet you expect them not to react. Stop this Sacrilege.
Stop decieving people in the
name of Islam. Give your creed any name other than Islam and believe me,
Muslims will be as
tolerant towards you as they are towards people of the other faith."
May Allah guide us along the staright path and protect us from
pretenders like Ghulam Ahmed Mirza and his deviat orgaisation.
Ameen.Walaikum salam Shahid
Nadeem A Malik
In article <5djbhg$o...@shell3.ba.best.com> Syed <mun...@flash.net> writes:
>We (orthodox muslims) must stop the Qadiani religion from expanding. They
>are watering down Islam
>and are misleading many non-believers into believing they are the true
>muslims. The Qadianis must understand that their religion is not true but
>was set up by the west to dilute Islam and create disunity.
>Our religion is being plagued by too many sects.-we are becoming like the
>Chirstians.
>
>Allah will ask us all what contributions we have made to stop religions like
>these.
I think that Allah is more likely you why you did not accept the Imam MAhdi
whom had sent as promised by him. What will you say?
When you are in hell, there is no truning back, no excuses. Only regret and
misery and punishment of fire.
Be careful my friend. Accept the truthful messiah while you are alive ... for
your own sake!
Nadeem Malik
p.s. I have been asked by some genuine Muslims to actually explain the claims
of the Promised Messiah and his proves. Inshallah, I will shortly put together
a few articles to summaries these things for s.r.i.
Nawaz Ahmed
Actually all opponants of the Prophets and righteous people have
allways said the same thing. Quran is full of such asertions and
slogans of opponants of Prophets (as). But God has made a rule
which God NEVER Changes.
La AglaBana ho Rasulli, "My Prophets will be victorious always".
Same will be proved for the Promised Messiah and Mahdi (as)
because Holly Prophet (pbuh) and Allah have called him Prophet.
The 100 years history of Ahmadiyyat is proof of the fulfilment of
this promise by God. The oppression and difficulties have always
speeded up the progress of Ahmadiyyatn the TRU ISLAM.
People keep making claims but God promise always remains the
same, MY PROPHETS WILL BR SUCCESSFUL AT THE END.
Wasalam,
Nawaz Ahmed
--
Ahmadiyyat is the TRU Islam.
Khilafat-e-Ahmadiyya is the TRU Khilafat
promised to Muslims by Allah.
No one else has Khilafat to assue success and final victory.
Nadeem A Malik
In article <5dreb6$k...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Rafiq <rafiq...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>Syed wrote:
>>
>> We (orthodox muslims) must stop the Qadiani religion from expanding. They
>> are watering down Islam
>> and are misleading many non-believers into believing they are the true
>> muslims.
>
>
> Not to worry Akhee Syed; Muhammad (SAAW) told us about the Signs of the
>Day of Judgement, and one of them was that 30 liars or false prophets
>would come, but that they would fail at their attempts since Allah will
>never send a new prophet after Muhammad (SAAW). They will have some followers,
>but that is not what we should really worry about. Another sign says that
>religious knowledge will go away because fewer and fewer scholars will
>arise and that ignorance will increase. This has alreay started some time
>back--This is a big problem because many Muslims are misled into thinking
>this world is so great and the desires of nonbelievers should be theirs
>(like money and big houses). Despite all this, the Truth will always
>prevail, whether it be in this life or the next.
>
>
What an interesting statement .. and a true one.
Interesting is it not, that the Holy Prophet(saw) specifically said 30
liars; not MANY liars or an indefiniate number of liars claiming
prophethood. This strongly indicates that BETWEEN the Pormised Messiah
and himself there would be 30 liars claiming prophethood, but the
PROMISED MESSIAH himsellf would be a prophet, as indeed it is
confirmed in the Sahih or Muslim where the comming Promised Messiah,
designated as the return of Jesus in metaphorical language, is stated
as "Jesus, the Prophet of Allah (Nabiullah)" no less than 3 times in
the same hadith.
The other important point that is mentioned above is that the test of
false Prophethood is that they will never succeed, and conversely the
true claimant of Prophet will be successful against any and every
oposition, just like the Quran has stated for all Prophets. Apllying
this test, there can be no doubt at all that the Jamat Ahmadiyya In
Islam is the ONE TRUE JAMAT IN ISLAM and Hazrat Ahmad of Qadian is the
true Promised Messiah.
Consider: (1) Uniquely in Muslim history, ALL other Muslim sects and
ulema have united to declare Ahmadis as non-Muslims. According to the
hadith of the Holy Prophet regarding the false 72 sects and the 1 true
jamat, the 72 sects have successfully informed the entire world that
THEY indeed are the 72 hellish sects and Jamat Ahmadiyya is the one
TRUE JAMAT -- a propaganda coup verging on the genius and something we
Ahmadis could not have told the rest of the world on our own --- thank
you very much!
(2) From the inception of Jamat Ahmadiyya, the non-Ahmadi ulema have
been waging their 'Jihad' against Ahmadis -- and failing miserably
each and every time; nay, on each spate of persecution, Allah has help
Jamat Ahmadiyya to new heights of success. Take the recent wave of
persecutions, first in 1974 when Bhutto declared Ahmadis as
non-Muslims in Pakistan (under pressure of the other 72 sects). His
end was bitter and famously etched in history. Then, when Zia-ul-Haq
went even further, and the present Khalifatul-Masih IV was forced to
go abroad, to the UK, it was declared at the time as the end of Jamat
Ahmadiyya.
Some end, indeed! Not only was Zia famously blasted out of the sky
with his top brass of military cohorts -- a direct result of the
Mubahala challenge -- but since the Khalifatul-Masih IV's move to UK
the Jamat has seen spectacular growth and organisation previously only
dreamt about by generations of Ahmadis. We are now expanding at the
rate of millions per year! Last year we increased by 1.8 million new
Ahmadi Muslims world wide, and this year we are on course for around 3
million new Ahmadi Muslims. two years ago we had about 0.8 million and
the year previous to that we had about 0.4 million. This conforms to
the divine scheme mentioned in the Quran that the righteous jamat will
increase by doubling every year! Allah is great. What is more, we
started from a base of only about 5 million Ahmadis about 10 years ago
... so in the course of the last decade Ahmadiyyat has doubled its
size! Allah-o-akbar.
(3) We are only (initiallly) 5 million Ahmadi Muslims world wide, but
we are the only Muslim Jamat to have a 24 hour world wide satellite
braodcast channel -- Muslim Television Ahmadiyya (MTA). By contrast,
more than 1000 million Muslims with gushing petro-dollars have not so
much as thought about any thing similar!
And now I would like to inform the reader of some thing else. Due to
various signs that have been received by Ahmadis world wide and by the
Khalifatul Masih IV himself, he has said that this year will be a year
of great trumph for truth and for the Jamat Ahmadiyya. Peoples will
see our progress, our enemies will be vaguished. Bearing in mind that
he has, on January Friday 10th Jumma Sermon, renewed his Mubahalla
challenge to the leaders of the anti-Ahamdiyya Mullahs, this is bound
to be realised. He has said that this is the last great battle between
these Mullahs and the jamat Ahmadiyya in Pakistan. I would like to say
that, with great humility, I have been personally recipient of a dream
to this effect, and I believe this dream to be true. In this dream I
saw the Mullahs, in the form of a monkey --- recall the Quran: ".. be
ye like apes, despised", a very apt description of today's ulema ---
being put on trial and then being hanged in public in such a miserable
and pathetic manner that I could not bear to look upon this pitiable
spectacle.
So, let us wait and see a little longer shall we. I hope the honest
seekers after truth will soon come to accept the Jamat Ahmadiyya as
the one true Jamat as mentioned by the Holy Prophet (saw).
Nadeem Malik
Kazi Hassan Imam
Arabela Arifovic (zai...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: ****************************************
: AHMADIYYAT IS THE TRUE ISLAM
: ****************************************
THEY ARE NOT MUSLIMS!
BEWARE OF THEM!
THIS IS A PITY THAT MANY MUSLIMS PARTICULARLY IN BALKAN ARE BEING
MISGUIDED BY THE APOSTATES.
ghen...@khan.u-net.com
On 14 Feb 1997 14:01:45 GMT, N.A....@amtp.cam.ac.uk (Nadeem A Malik) wrote:
>-->Be careful my friend. Accept the truthful messiah while you are alive ... for
>-->your own sake!
"truthfull" "messiah" these are the opposite of the mirza who founded Ahmadiyya / Qadianity!
Ahmadiyya / Qadianity are NOT ISLAM! NOR is Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity etc!
The followers of the mirza are KAFIRS plain and simple. They follow the fabrications of the
David Koresh figure of his era in the Indian 'suburbs'.
Remember the manner in which the imposter - the mirza - died, Allah saw fit to send the
angel of death to visit upon him whilst he was sat on a toilet!
Surely a fitting end to this sad man? And to put the icing on the cake - they buried him on the spot!
This is the way that Allah (SWT) chose to deal with the founder of Ahmadiyya / Qadianity.
saify
BISMILLAH UR REHMAN UR RAHEEM,
ALHAMDULILAH RAB UL ALAAMEEN, ALKAREEM,ALQADEER,ALAHAD.
SALA'AT WA'SALAM ALA KHATIM ULNABEYEEN WA RUSOL HABEEBANA,
SHAFIANA, WA'SAYEDUNA HAZRAT MUHAMMED BIN ABDULLAH(PBUH)
WA ALA ALLEH WA'ASHAABEH WA'SULAHA AULIA E MILATHE,
AMA BA'AD
mr nadeem ,
I thing this little anwser is enough for your long reply,,on qaidianies,
Come on man awake-up ,are you dreaming its now 99 or little more years
passed,
your murtad mirza died , but till today qaidianies/ahmedies/mirzaies are
dreaming
for its truthness , and mirza got his best place(NAR E JAHEEM) which he
wished ,
The joke is that every mirzai/ahmedi/qaidani knows that what mirza and
after him
were claimed all is false,,,
see for details book of HAZRAT MEHR ALI SHAH(RAA) MEHR E MUNEER
and SAIF E CHISTIAYE, and you will get every thing,
DID YOU FORGET HAZRAT MEHR ALI SHAH(RAA) , AND SHAIKH PRO &DR,
MUHAMMED TAHIR UL QADERI(DAMAT BARAKATA HUM AL ALIA).
ALMIGHTY ALLAH HELPS THESE ULAMA WA SULAHA AND ULAMA AND SULAHA ALL AROUND
THE WORLD NOT MURTADS LIKE
YOUR mirza ahmed.
I invite you all to a right path,yes the path of MUHAMMED(PBUH)
Come wake-up and follow the true and right path ,and forget the falses,
WALLAH YOU WILL BE IN PARADISE IF YOU FOLLWED TRUE AND RIGHT PATH OTHER
WISE THE NAR E JAHEEM IS WAITTING FOR MURTADS AND QAZAABEEN LIKE MIRZA IS
BURNED TILL TODAY,
WASALAM ALA MIN AMINA BILLAH WA ALA AL KATIM ALNABIYEENA WA RUSOL MUHAMMED
BIN ABDULLAH(PBUH)
YOU ARE INVITED TO VISIT BEST WEBSITE'S SUCH AS,
http://sunnah.org
http://www.worldnet.net/~minhaj
sa...@qatar.net.qa
Nadeem A Malik <N.A....@damtp.cam.ac.uk> wrote in article
<5e39tm$n...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>...
Nawaz Ahmed
Future of Ahmadiyyat by Promised Messiah
O mankind! harken, this is the prophecy of God who made the
heavens and the earth. He will spread this Movement in all
countries and will give it supremacy over all through reason and
argument.
Remember, no one will descend from heaven. All our opponents who
are living at present will die and not one of them will see
Jesus, Son of Mary, descend from the sky and then their children
who survive them will also pass away and none of them will see
Jesus, Son of Mary, coming down from the heaven. Generations of
their posterity will also perish and they, too, will not see the
Son of Mary descending from Heaven.
Then God will create restlessness in their hearts; that the days
of the glory of the Cross had passed away and the world had taken
another shape, but Jesus, son of Mary, had still not come down
from the sky. Then all the wise people will discard this belief
and the third century from today will not have completed when all
those who had been waiting for Jesus, both Muslims and
Christians, will despair of his coming and entertain misgivings
and shall give up their belief
Arabela Arifovic
In the Name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful
Asselam-o-Aleikum
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
AHMADIYYAT IS THE TRUE ISLAM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.alislam.org
http://ahmadiyyat.org
http://www.bosnian.org
http://www.ahmady.org
Wasalam,
Zaineb A.A.
ghen...@khan.u-net.com
On 18 Feb 1997 17:03:44 -0800, Nawaz Ahmed <10436...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>-->
>-->Future of Ahmadiyyat by Promised Messiah
Promised Messiah????? Does he have a name by any chance? :-)
Could this be a reference to the mirza ghulam of Qadian??
Why don't you use his name? Are you ashamed to do so?
Ahmadiyyat is Ahmadiyyat--- as you conveniently state above, It is NOT Islam!
Hence Islam is called Islam and Ahmadiyyat is called Ahmadiyyat! Quite simple really.
Virk Shakeel
ghen...@khan.u-net.com wrote:
: On 18 Feb 1997 17:03:44 -0800, Nawaz Ahmed <10436...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
:
: >-->
: >-->Future of Ahmadiyyat by Promised Messiah
:
: Promised Messiah????? Does he have a name by any chance? :-)
Ghenghis Khan you have repeatedly demonstrated that you are a trouble
maker. Your words have clearly pointed to the fact that you are not
sincere in your efforts, and that you are willing to violate all justice
in order to attack the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam.
You have once again not missed the opportunity to put foward another
petty attack. "Does he have a name by chance?"
: Could this be a reference to the mirza ghulam of Qadian??
You are extremely disrespectful. The fact that you do not believe Hazrat
Ahmad to be the Promised Messiah is no grounds for you to show such
disrespect. The Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) offered Christian leaders to
pray in a Mosque. There is no need to be disrespectful.
Is it really necessary to intentionally not use capital letters for Mirza
and Ghulam ?
These petty attacks serve absolutely no purpose. What do you expect to
gain by not putting capitals where they rightfully belong ?
: Why don't you use his name? Are you ashamed to do so?
More petty attacks. Don't you ever get tired of these useless arguments,
and petty attacks ?
Not only are your attacks petty they are irrational. Just because
someone refers to the Muhammad (pbuh) as the Holy Prophet it does not
follow that they are ashamed to use his (pbuh) name. The same follows for
Hazrat Ahamd (pbuh).
Now I am sure you could have figured that out on your own. It is clear
that you are only interested in attacking from any deviated angle you can
think of.
Your posts clearly show that you are not interested in rational
discussion, you are not interested in truth, you are only interested in
hurting Ahamdis and Ahamdiyya Movement in Islam. Your deep rooted hatred
whether justified or not is open for all to see.
Shakeel Virk
ghen...@khan.u-net.com
On 21 Feb 1997 13:49:59 -0800, 3s...@qlink.queensu.ca (Virk Shakeel) wrote:
>-->ghen...@khan.u-net.com wrote:
>-->: On 18 Feb 1997 17:03:44 -0800, Nawaz Ahmed <10436...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>-->:
>-->: >-->
>-->: >-->Future of Ahmadiyyat by Promised Messiah
>-->:
>-->: Promised Messiah????? Does he have a name by any chance? :-)
>-->
>-->Ghenghis Khan you have repeatedly demonstrated that you are a trouble
>-->maker. Your words have clearly pointed to the fact that you are not
>-->sincere in your efforts, and that you are willing to violate all justice
>-->in order to attack the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam.
Ouch! Touch a raw nerve did I?
I guessed that Qadianity does not like to mention this "promised
messiah" by name! And your touchiness clearly demonstrates this to be
so! The reason for this is that Qadianis attempt to give the
appearance that their religion is Islam,they know that to use the name
'mirza' is counter productive, so the title "promised messiah" is
invariably used! For the layman who is unfamiliar with Islam this is
subtle enough for him to think that it is probably a 'Muslim term' -
whereas the name 'mirza' would probably beg the question -"WHO is this
mirza guy?" This makes it harder for qadianis to trick people! Hence
the touchiness!
>-->: Could this be a reference to the mirza ghulam of Qadian??
>-->You are extremely disrespectful. The fact that you do not believe Hazrat
>-->Ahmad to be the Promised Messiah is no grounds for you to show such
>-->disrespect.
What kind of "respect" do you wish for an infamous fabricater of falsehoods and
renowned opium user? What kind of "disrepect" have I given to this 'icon'???
>--> The Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) offered Christian leaders to
>-->pray in a Mosque.
There is a BIG difference between Christianity and Qadianity cult!!!!!
Christians don't go about pretending to be Muslims! Nor did any
Christian proclaim himself a 'new' messenger of Islam! Qadianis
attempt to subvert Islam by pretending to be Muslims! I doubt very
much if the mirza or any other of his ilk would be invited to pray in
a Mosque! You are dreaming!!
>-->Is it really necessary to intentionally not use capital letters for Mirza
>-->and Ghulam ?
I just felt that it befitted his stature!
>-->Just because
>-->someone refers to the Muhammad (pbuh) as the Holy Prophet it does not
>-->follow that they are ashamed to use his (pbuh) name.
It is uncommen for a Muslim to refer to Mohammed (PBUH) merely as "The
Holy Prophet". Muslims will invarioubly use his name - to avoid any
confusion to the layman! Wheres the qadiani trick is the opposite!
Even the layman knows that the Prophet of Islam is Muhammed (PBUH),
whereas the name mirza ghulam ahmed is unheard of and confusing!
Hence qadianis will attempt to mention his (mirza's) name only where
unavoidable! - especially to potential converts!
>--> The same follows for
>-->Hazrat Ahamd (pbuh).
The same does not follow for 'Ahamd'? He was NO messenger -- merely a
pretender! -- A FAKE -- like others before him! Ps I thought that
the mirza had claimed that he was really Jesus son of Mary? Only
later did he pretend to be a prophet of Islam!
To compare the mirza with Muhammed (PBUH) is to compare the night to day!
NO comparison at all! Regardless of your aspirations otherwise!
>--> It is clear
>-->that you are only interested in attacking from any deviated angle you can
>-->think of.
It is clear that you would prefer to avoid the issues in question- Hence
the diversions from them!
>-->Your posts clearly show that you are not interested in rational
>-->discussion, you are not interested in truth, you are only interested in
>-->hurting Ahamdis and Ahamdiyya Movement in Islam.
An accurate summary of the creed of Qadianity!
Switch the words Ahamdis? with Muslims and the word Ahamdiyya? with Islam!
Ahmadiyya /Qadianity / mirzaism cult is NOT Islam!
>--> Your deep rooted hatred
>-->whether justified or not is open for all to see.
Paranoia on your part! ALL qadianis are paranoid because the know that
Muslims do not tolerate their attempts to subvert Islam and lead astray those
individuals who are hapless enough to be duped by them!
If Qadianity / Ahmadiyya / Mirzaism DROP the word Islam from their title -
I can assure you that you will be treated no differently to any other kafir!
*************************************************************************************
Muhammad is not
The father of any
Of your men,but (he is)
The messenger of Allah,
And the seal of the Prophets (the last Prophet)
And Allah has full knowledge
Of all things.
(Sura Al Ahzab) Holy Qur'an 33:40
***********************************************************************************
Abu Huraira reported Allah's messenger (pbuh) as saying:
"The last hour would not come until there would arise about
thirty imposters, liars and each one of them would claim that
he is a messenger of Allah"
***********************************************************************************
Arabela Arifovic
In the Name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful
Asselam-o-Aleikum
I really hope and pray that may Allah forgive you for stating such lies
about Ahmadis. Please pray that may He show you the true path, that is
the path of Ahmadiyyat.
Wasalam,
Sincerely,
Zaineb A.A.
In <5esgv7$2...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> ghen...@khan.u-net.com writes:
The Turbaned Leprechaun
For some facts on the issue, check out the following clear and
informative URL:
http://members.aol.com/aaiil/main.htm
s v e n d
******************************************************************
*Svend A. White * "Hated by fools and fools to hate/ *
*swh...@goucher.edu * Be that ever my motto and my fate."*
*Svend...@compuserve.com* ---Swift *
******************************************************************
Virk Shakeel
ghen...@khan.u-net.com wrote:
: On 21 Feb 1997 13:49:59 -0800, 3s...@qlink.queensu.ca (Virk Shakeel) wrote:
:
: >-->ghen...@khan.u-net.com wrote:
: >-->: On 18 Feb 1997 17:03:44 -0800, Nawaz Ahmed <10436...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
: Ouch! Touch a raw nerve did I?
:
: I guessed that Qadianity does not like to mention this "promised
: messiah" by name!
Why are you telling lies ? Seriously, I have shown that you are a liar by
using the name Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (pbuh) or Hazrat Ahmad, yet you
continue to tell this lie. I can provide you with many references of
books published by the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam which use the name
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, but I doubt this would stop you.
You are telling bold face lies, and show no guilt, shame, or remorse for
doing so. Are you a Muslim ? If you are then stop telling lies.
: And your touchiness clearly demonstrates this to be
: so! The reason for this is that Qadianis attempt to give the
: appearance that their religion is Islam,they know that to use the name
: 'mirza' is counter productive, so the title "promised messiah" is
: invariably used!
As can be easily proven, Ahamdi's do use the name Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, and
is it found in many, many books published by the Ahmadiyya Movement in
Islam.
So the question remains, why are you telling this lie ? It's not like you
are just making an honest mistake by accident. You are doing it
intentionally.
Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, has warned Ahmadi Muslims about people like
yourself, he stated:
"O my friends who have entered into a covenant with me, may God enable you
to do that which should please Him. Today your number is small and you
are treated with contempt. You will be persecuted in every way and you
will have to bear all sorts of disagreeable things. Everyone who causes
you hurt by word or deed will imagine that he is helping Islam, and you
will have to pass through some heavenly trails also that you may be tried
in every way."
Does this not describe you ? You are trying to hurt Ahmadi Muslims, and
imagine that by doing so you are helping Islam; is this true ? Yes or No ?
Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahamd went on to say:
"Therefore, listen with attention that your way to victory and supermacy
will not be through your dry logic or through your returning mockery or
abuse with abuse, for if you adopt these ways, you will be left with
nothing but words, which God Almighty hates and looks upon with aversion.
So do not behave in a manner whereby you should become subject to two
curses, the curse of men and the curse of God.
Remember well that if the curse of men is not accompanied by the curse of
God Almighty, it amounts to nothing. If God does not wish to destroy us,
we cannot be destroyed by anyone; but if He should become our enenmy, no
one can afford us shelter. Then how shall we please God Almighty and how
shall we win His Support ? ...."
You see your vain petty attacks cannot destroy the Ahmadiyya Movement in
Islam, and you know full well that much effort is being put foward to
destroy the Ahmadiyya Community, yet it continues to grow and spread.
All efforts to destroy the Community have contiuously failed, this is a
sign for the truth of Ahmadiyya the Movement in Islam, in my opinion.
And you cannot deny this. You are no doubt aware of efforts to destroy
the Community, and you are no doubt aware that the Ahmadiyya Movement in
Islam continues to grow and spread.
Shakeel Virk
jor...@gmail.com
e all the prophets. There is no proof there even is a God or gods. Tell me =
do you believe in talking food and talking rocks? Do you believe trees can =
cry? Do you believe the sun sets in a pool of mud? Do you believe it is ok =
for an old man such as Muhammad to have sex with a 9 year old girl? Do you =
believe Satan urinates in your ears? This is what Islam teaches.
We must abandon all forms of Islam and all religions.
Qadiyanism is just as false as Islam