WHERE IS SALAT IN THE QURAN ? 3
AHMED OKLA
This is a continuation. Please read the first 2 posts first.
SALAT (CONTACT PRAYERS ) IN THE QURAN:
Many Muslims do not know that all the five prayers are mentioned in the
Quran, their time is clearly mentioned in several verses and that all the
steps we do are found also in the Quran.
{1} ABLUTION (WUDUU):
Ablution (Wuduu) is mentioned in details in Sura 5 verse 6. AND ONLY 4
steps:
{5:6}
"O you who believe, when you observe the Contact Prayers
(Salat), you shall: (1) wash your faces, (2) wash your
arms to the elbows, (3) wipe your heads, and (4) wash
your feet to the ankles. If you were unclean due to
sexual orgasm, you shall bathe. If you are ill, or
traveling, or had any digestive excretion (urinary,
fecal, or gas), or had (sexual) contact with the women,
and you cannot find water, you shall observe the dry
ablution (Tayammum) by touching clean dry soil, then
rubbing your faces and hands. GOD does not wish to make
the religion difficult for you; He wishes to cleanse you
and to perfect His blessing upon you, that you may be
appreciative. " {5:6}
{2} FIVE PRAYERS A DAY AND THEIR TIME :
God gave us the times for the Salat (contact Prayers) in the Quran :
(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11:114, 24:58
(2)The Noon Prayer (Zuher in Arabic) , given in 17:78
(3)The Afternoon Prayer (Asr in Arabic), given in 2:238
(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib in Arabic, given in 11:114
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha in Arabic, given in 24:58
As you can see from the Quran, God tells us to do our Contact prayers
(Salat) at specific times, (see 4:103) and then He tells us what these
times are.
{3} TAKBEER (Glorification of God), Allahu Akbar :
The Takbeer (glorification of God) by saying Allahu Akbar for example
can be found in 17:111, 2:185, 22 :37, 74:3, and 29:45
[17:110-111]
" Say, "Call Him GOD, or call Him the Most Gracious;
whichever name you use, to Him belongs the best names."
You shall not utter your Contact Prayers (Salat) too
loudly, nor secretly; use a moderate tone.
And proclaim: "Praise be to GOD, who has never begotten a
son, nor does He have a partner in His kingship, nor does
He need any ally out of weakness," and magnify Him
constantly. ( Kabberho Takbeera) "
[29:45]
You shall recite what is revealed to you of the
scripture, and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), for
the Contact Prayers prohibit evil and vice. The
remembrance of GOD (through Salat) is the most important
objective.* ( La Thekro Allahu Akbar), GOD knows everything you do."
{4} READING SURA 1, FATEHA, IN SALAT :
The mathematical evidence for Sura 1 is overwhelming and should be
reviewed.
It is discussed later in this file.
{5} TONE OF READING IN SALAT :
This also has been described in the Quran, in 17:110
[17:110]
Say, "Call Him GOD, or call Him the Most Gracious;
whichever name you use, to Him belongs the best names."
You shall not utter your Contact Prayers (Salat) too
loudly, nor secretly; use a moderate tone.
{6} BOWING DOWN (Ruku) AND FALLING PROSTRATE (Sujood):
Where in the Quran;
[22:77]
"O you who believe, you shall bow, prostrate, worship your
Lord, and work righteousness, that you may succeed. "
See also, 2:43, 2:125, 5:55, 9:112, 22:26 and 48:29
For falling prostrate also see; 3:113, 4:102, 7:206, 13:15, 15:98,
16:49, 17:107, 19:58, 22:18, 25:64, 41:37, 48:29, 53:62, 76:26, and
96:19,
WHAT WE SAY WHEN WE BOW DOWN :
"Subhana Rabbya Al-Azeem), can be found in 56:74
[56:74]
"You shall glorify the name of your Lord, the Great. ' (Fa-Sabbeh Be-Ism
Rabbeka Al-Azeem)
WHAT WE SAY WHEN WE GET UP FROM BOWING DOWN:
"Sami-a Allahu Le-man Hamedahu" (God hears those who praise Him)
[3:38]
"That is when Zachariah implored his Lord: "My Lord, grant me such a good
child;
You are the Hearer of the prayers." AND,
[52:48]
"You shall steadfastly persevere in carrying out your
Lord's command - you are in our eyes - and glorify and
praise your Lord when you get up."
WHAT WE SAY WHEN WE FALL PROSTRATE:
"Subhana Rabbya Al-A'ala " can be found in 87:1
[87:1]
"Glorify the name of your Lord, the Most High." (Sabbeh Ism Rabbeka
Al-A'ala)
{7} SHAHADA (TASHAHHUD):
La Elaha Ella Allah (There is no god but God).
The Shahada recited after the prostration of the second Rakaat and at
the end of the
prayers can be found in 3:18. This is the Shahada of God, the angels and
those who
possess knowledge. The Shahada of the hypocrites can be found in 63:1
[3:18]
"GOD bears witness that there is no god except He,
(La Elaha Ella Ho, Ho in reference to God, Allah ) and so
do the angels and those who possess knowledge. Truthfully
and equitably, He is the absolute god; there is no god
but He, the Almighty, Most Wise."
BUT WHY CAN'T WE........... ?
But why can't we pray more than what God told us to pray ?
There are two parts to the answer of this question. The first part has to
do with the source of our religious practice. If God tells you in the
Quran to pray five specific prayers, and you say,"But the Hadith books
said to pray more" . Does this mean God does not know what to order ?!
Does this mean God is not clear ? when He said the prayers are set for
specific times.
All Muslims world-wide agree on the five Contact Prayers (Salat), how many
units they should be, and when they should be prayed. But no two sects
agree on the Sunnah prayers. Isn't this exactly like the example given in
the Quran :
"God cites the Example of a man who deals with disputing partners (i.e.
Hadith), compared to a man who deals with only one consistent source
(i.e.Quran). Are they the same ? Praise be to God; most of them do not
know. (39:29)
The second part of the answer has to do with the mathematical proof of
the Contact Prayers (Salat).
SALAT AND MATHEMATICS:
We all heard about the Mathematical Miracle of the Quran, but few knew
that the Mathematical Miracle also involved the Contact Prayers (Salat in
Arabic).
While the Mathematical Miracle of the Quran is built on the number 19, see
74:30, that of the Contact Prayers (Salat) is built on both number 19 and
17, where number 17 is the total number of units (Rakaat) of the Salat
that we are supposed to do every day.
Dawn (Fajr)..... ............2 units
Noon(Zuhr)..................4 units
Afternoon (Asr)............4 units
Sunset (Maghrib)..........3 units
Night (Isha)..................4 units
Total of 17 units
As you know we have to pray these units in this order, Fajr,
Zuhr,Asr,Maghrib, &Isha that is 2 ,4 ,4, 3, 4 units ,
this number that has to be in this order is a multiple of 19, actually
24434=19x1286
>From this we can see that the number of units (Rakaat) of prayer is an
important part of the Mathematical code and adding or subtracting prayers
or units of prayer disrupts this coding that is here not because of
coincidence but because God who controls everything especially His own
prayers put it there.
This Mathematical code proves to us that the prayer we have today is
protected by God since started by Abraham and that the order we do it is
the right order with each prayer has the right number of units Rakaat).
But there is more !!!!
If we look at the number of the letters which spell the names of the
prayers in Arabic (Fajr, Zuhr, Asr, Maghrib"Mgrb" & Isha) the total is 17
letters which is the total number of units (Rakaat) we perform every day.
Sura number 1, the Key (Fateha) is the major part of our prayer, it has to
be recited 17 times a day (the number of Rakaat). Sura 1,has 7 verse,
both the 1 and the 7 that form the number 17 can be appreciated right
there , nothing in God's system is a coincidence.
How about the word Salat (Contact Prayers ) in the Quran itself, is it
part of the Miracle ?
The answer is yes. The word "Salat" occurs in the Quran 67 times, and when
we add the numbers of Suras and verses of these 67 occurrences, the total
comes to 4674, or 19x246, another multiple of 19.
One more miracle that shows how much God is in control of everything is
the next one, but it is also more difficult than the first ones. This
miracle proves that Sura 1 (Fateha) is the essence of our prayer and that
the numbers of bowing and falling prostrate and saying Shahada
(Tashahhuds) during our prayers are controlled by God. If we write down
the number of the prayers with their bowings, prostrations and Shahadas,
we get :
11224124482344824336254482
This long number consists of the number of the sura that we recite in
every prayer, Sura 1, (1) followed by the number of the first prayer (1),
then the number of times that we recite sura 1 in this prayer (2 ), then
the number of bowings (Ruku') (i.e. 2), then the number of prostrations
(4), then the number of Shahada (Tashahhuds) (1 in first prayer), then we
start over again with the number of second prayer (2) followed by the
number of sura 1 that we recite in 2nd prayer (4), then the number of
bowings (Ruku') (4) , then the number of prostrations (8) in this prayer,
then the number of Tashahhuds (2), then the number of the third prayer
(3), and so on to the last prayer of
the day. This long number is a multiple of 19 and confirms the minute
details of the prayers.
One may ask what are all these numbers, does God really care. The answer
is actually in 72:28
"This is to ascertain that they have delivered their Lord's messages. He
is fully aware of what they have. HE HAS COUNTED THE NUMBERS OF ALL
THINGS." 72:28, notice that 7+2+2+8= 19
>From all of these findings we can see that God designed the times of the
prayers, the number of units in each prayer, even the names of the prayers
in a very specific way. Unfortunately human beings have tendency to make
things more complex and difficult than what God gives us.
Will continue under "Where is Salat in the Quran ? 4"
Hyder Ali Khan
In the name of Allah(SWT), the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Greetings,
On 15 Jul 1996, AHMED OKLA wrote:
> SALAT (CONTACT PRAYERS ) IN THE QURAN:
>
> {1} ABLUTION (WUDUU):
>
> Ablution (Wuduu) is mentioned in details in Sura 5 verse 6. AND ONLY 4
> steps:
>
> {5:6}
[ Readers should refer to original note for the quoting of this verse.]
Much of the wordings used by you in your rendering of 5:06 into English
are dubious. Please use HOLY QURAN as your reference and not your
INTERPRETATIONS. In other words, please don't interject words and
delete words into or from the verses in English which were NOT there in
the Arabic text! This is a basic courtesy we would really appreciate, lest
you should be deemed a twister of the Holy Quran's verses yourself!
> {2} FIVE PRAYERS A DAY AND THEIR TIME :
> As you can see from the Quran, God tells us to do our Contact prayers
> (Salat) at specific times, (see 4:103) and then He tells us what these
> times are.
Yes.
> {3} TAKBEER (Glorification of God), Allahu Akbar :
> The Takbeer (glorification of God) by saying Allahu Akbar for example
> can be found in 17:111, 2:185, 22 :37, 74:3, and 29:45
17:111 does not tell us what to say during the salat, or when during the
salat to say it. In fact, the word "salat" isn't even used in this verse
at all!
2:185 does not talk about salat at all!
22:37 also does not talk about salat at all!
74:03 - NOWHERE in this verse does it talk about how to pray salat!
The word Salat isn't even used!
> {5} TONE OF READING IN SALAT :
>
> This also has been described in the Quran, in 17:110
(The word "also" should have been taken out, but I have to quote you
exactly as you wrote.)
It only tells us what tone to recite our prayers in, but not much else
about how to pray, what to recite, what actions to perform in what
sequence, and how many number of times during the prayer.
> {6} BOWING DOWN (Ruku) AND FALLING PROSTRATE (Sujood):
> Where in the Quran;
>
> WHAT WE SAY WHEN WE BOW DOWN :
> "Subhana Rabbya Al-Azeem), can be found in 56:74
Yes, but nowhere in this verse nor in the adjacent verses is it
mentioned that this is what is to be recited during the bowing.
> WHAT WE SAY WHEN WE GET UP FROM BOWING DOWN:
> "Sami-a Allahu Le-man Hamedahu" (God hears those who praise Him)
What verse number is the above verse? (For that matter, does it actually
say that this is what must be recited while getting up? Where does it say
in the Quran that during the salat you must get up? Get up from what, for
that matter?)
> [52:48]
> "You shall steadfastly persevere in carrying out your
> Lord's command - you are in our eyes - and glorify and
> praise your Lord when you get up."
BUT the next verse refers to the NIGHT, therefore the "getting up" here
is referring to the WAKING up in the MORNING.
>
> WHAT WE SAY WHEN WE FALL PROSTRATE:
> "Subhana Rabbya Al-A'ala " can be found in 87:1
Yes, this is a very beautiful verse, whose depth is incomparable to
any other sentence in the whole of mankind. BUT IT DOES NOT SAY THAT THIS
IS WHAT WE SAY WHEN WE FALL PROSTRATE!
[ Etc. There is a pattern emerging here; please refer to the original note
for reference of the verses of Quran which he documented.]
> BUT WHY CAN'T WE........... ?
>
> But why can't we pray more than what God told us to pray ?
NOWHERE in the Holy Quran is it FORBIDDEN to pray more salat than beyond
the basic obligatory five.
> All Muslims world-wide agree on the five Contact Prayers (Salat), how many
> units they should be, and when they should be prayed
> "God cites the Example of a man who deals with disputing partners (i.e.
> Hadith), compared to a man who deals with only one consistent source
> (i.e.Quran). Are they the same ? Praise be to God; most of them do not
> know. (39:29)
This verse is referring to polytheism vs. monotheism. It is you who
inserted the words "Hadith" and "Quran" in here, according to your own
customized interpretation. There is no NEED for God to have been referring
to "hadith" vs. "Quran" at a time when the FOCUS was on calling the Arabs
away from polytheism!!!
> SALAT AND MATHEMATICS:
[ Extensive text cut here; please feel free to refer to original note for
reference on the so-called miraculous proof of the number 17.]
Even if these numbers do work out, it doees not answer the question of how
a person who relies on QURAN ALONE would know how many rakats to pray in a
day. Any blind follower of, oh, let's say Dr. Rashad Khalifa's theory,
could just as well argue that the number of rakats required per day is:
NINETEEN and not SEVENTEEN!
(After all, if two verses could have been added to the Holy Quran at the
end of the 9th surah, then maybe some hadith-transmitter might have cut
out two of the rakats from salat and reduced it to SEVENTEEN when it used
to be NINETEEN! A lot of cutting and pasting!)
A person existing before the time of Rashad Khalifa in the 1980s would
still be praying seventeen rakats daily, but not because he sat around and
counted out these patters with his abacus (they didn't have calculators
back then) and figured... Hmmm, I guess I should pray 17. Actually, he
should pray NINETEEN!
YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED THE ORIGINAL REQUEST:
PLEASE SHOW US HOW TO PRAY SALAT USING ONLY THE QURAN AND NOTHING BUT THE
HOLY QURAN, STEP BY STEP.
To be continued...
Muhammad Abdullah
Assalamu Alaikum
Another long reply to brother Hyder Ali Khan. I hope you bear with me,
but the subject of discussion is of utmost importance. Frankly, this type
of religious debate is time consuming and exhausting. I commend all the
brothers who uphold the Qur'an alone for their patience. Just glancing at
his reply, I already feel that he is wasting my time. But the readers
should be aware of his inferior attempts in debating issues that he
obviously has no knowledge of. This is what gives Islam a bad name in the
eyes of those who seek it as a possible religion to convert to. If it
were up to me, and it is not, I would require br. Hyder to take a
comprehensive course in Ulumul Qur'an before he attampts to tackle these
issues.
Hyder Ali Khan wrote:
> On 15 Jul 1996, AHMED OKLA wrote:
| SALAT (CONTACT PRAYERS ) IN THE QURAN:
| {1} ABLUTION (WUDUU):
| Ablution (Wuduu) is mentioned in details in Sura 5 verse 6. AND ONLY
| 4 steps: {5:6}
> [ Readers should refer to original note for the quoting of this verse.]
> Much of the wordings used by you in your rendering of 5:06 into English
> are dubious. Please use HOLY QURAN as your reference and not your
> INTERPRETATIONS. In other words, please don't interject words and
> delete words into or from the verses in English which were NOT there in
> the Arabic text! This is a basic courtesy we would really appreciate,
> lest you should be deemed a twister of the Holy Quran's verses
> yourself!
You have just accused every translation of the Qur'an of being "dubious."
Please give me one popular translation of the Qur'an that is 100% literal
(i.e. word for word) without adding any words or prepositions and nouns
to make the English context meaningful. Do you read the Qur'an in Arabic
brother Hyder ? That is the only Qur'an that is 100% literal words of
Allah (swt). But here is my own translation of verse 5:6 as pertaind to
wdue that I will attempt to keep as literal as possible:
yaa :O you
ayyuhallathena :who
amanu :believe
ithah :if, when
qumtum :rise
ila :to
asslati :salat prayer
fa :then
ighsilu :wash
wujuhakum :your faces
wa :and
aydiyakum :your hand (arms)
ala :to
almarafiq :the elbows
wa :and
imsahu :wipe
biwujuhikum :your heads
wa :and
arjulakum :(wash)your feet
alal :to
ka'bayn :the ankles
Please tell me if it is proper English to translate word-for-word without
adding any preposition or words in parantheses to make the context clear
in English. Does your favorite translator do that ? I have yet to see one
on the market.
Now, it was necessary for me to add a word "wash" in parantheses. If that
is not done then the English reader may think that wiping the feet is
acceptable. The Arabic grammer tells us that is not so. I believe br.
Shawki fully explained this to br. Lomax.
Anyway putting it all together in meaningful English it becoms:
"O you who believe, if you rise to the salat prayer then wash your faces,
your arms to the elbows, wipe your heads, and (wash) your feet to the
ankles.."
Do you see anything wrong with this translation br. Hyder ? If so, could
you provide your own Arabic analysis of the above verse ?
| {2} FIVE PRAYERS A DAY AND THEIR TIME :
| As you can see from the Quran, God tells us to do our Contact
| prayers (Salat) at specific times, (see 4:103) and then He tells
| us what these times are.
> Yes.
No argument here. I am glad that brothers Ahmed and Hyder agreed.
| {3} TAKBEER (Glorification of God), Allahu Akbar :
| The Takbeer (glorification of God) by saying Allahu Akbar for
| example can be found in 17:111, 2:185, 22 :37, 74:3, and 29:45
> 17:111 does not tell us what to say during the salat, or when during
> the salat to say it. In fact, the word "salat" isn't even used in this
> verse at all!
Brother, 17:111 is a continuation of 17:110. The subject of salat did not
change from the first ayat to the next. I really think you have a serious
problem understanding the Qur'an.
> 2:185 does not talk about salat at all!
Br. Ahmed is referring to the word "takbeer" and "kabbir." The word
certainly exists, but you are right that 2:185 is not about salat, but
about siyam.
> 22:37 also does not talk about salat at all!
Fine. The subject is "kabboru Allaha." You seem to be lost in the
discussion.
> 74:03 - NOWHERE in this verse does it talk about how to pray salat!
> The word Salat isn't even used!
"Warabbaka fa kabbir" don'y you do that in your salat ?
| {5} TONE OF READING IN SALAT :
| This also has been described in the Quran, in 17:110
> (The word "also" should have been taken out, but I have to quote you
> exactly as you wrote.)
> It only tells us what tone to recite our prayers in, but not much else
> about how to pray, what to recite, what actions to perform in what
> sequence, and how many number of times during the prayer.
Okay, I admit that I am beginning to lose patience with your weak
argument. The man is showing you different aspects of the salat, and how
it is RESTORED in the Qur'an.
"Wala tajhar BISALATIKA wala tukhafit biha wabtaghi bayna thalika
sabeelan."
This talks about SALAT and the tone of voice during Salat, not just to
certain parts.
| {6} BOWING DOWN (Ruku) AND FALLING PROSTRATE (Sujood):
| Where in the Quran; WHAT WE SAY WHEN WE BOW DOWN :
| "Subhana Rabbya Al-Azeem), can be found in 56:74
> Yes, but nowhere in this verse nor in the adjacent verses is it
> mentioned that this is what is to be recited during the bowing.
The Qur'an is not a technical manual br. Hyder. You either take the
entire Qur'an as a whole and understand the relation between its various
verses, or you stop all togther with this debate.
| WHAT WE SAY WHEN WE GET UP FROM BOWING DOWN:
| "Sami-a Allahu Le-man Hamedahu" (God hears those who praise Him)
> What verse number is the above verse? (For that matter, does it
> actually say that this is what must be recited while getting up? Where
> does it say in the Quran that during the salat you must get up? Get up
> from what, for that matter?)
This reminds me of the Jews that Allah (swt) talks about in the Qur'an,
where they hide parts of their scripture behind their backs and claim:
No, God did not say this. Where did God say this ? I do not see anything
in the Torah about this.
Well, you have wasted my time on this argument and wasted eveyone els's
time. Either you learn the Qur'an as a whole; meaning and context or this
will be my last complete debate style reply to you. You have not refuted
one single point in br. Ahed's articles, not one.
| [52:48]
| "You shall steadfastly persevere in carrying out your Lord's command
| - you are in our eyes - and glorify and praise your Lord when you
| get up."
> BUT the next verse refers to the NIGHT, therefore the "getting up" here
> is referring to the WAKING up in the MORNING.
What an obtuse argument. Translate for me "heena taquum." The next verse
tells the peophet (sws) to glorify Allah (swt) at night and at down when
the stars begin to fade. All together these two aayat tell Mhammad (sws)
and all of us to glorify Allah (swt) day and night.
This man is not here to debate. He only wants to take short snipes at br.
Ahmed's informative atricles. Subhana Allah. No one can guide the blind
but Allah (swt).
| WHAT WE SAY WHEN WE FALL PROSTRATE:
| "Subhana Rabbya Al-A'ala " can be found in 87:1
> Yes, this is a very beautiful verse, whose depth is incomparable to
> any other sentence in the whole of mankind. BUT IT DOES NOT SAY THAT
> THIS IS WHAT WE SAY WHEN WE FALL PROSTRATE!
The brother was explaining to you where in the Qur'an certain expressions
used in salat are. He has done a fantastic job, and I commend him for his
effort. But it is obvious to me that you did not benefit from his
efforts.
> NOWHERE in the Holy Quran is it FORBIDDEN to pray more salat than
> beyond the basic obligatory five.
I have already explained to you what "kitaaban mawqutan" means. You may
follow the Allah (swt) and the Holy Qur'an, or you may follow the whims
of humans. This should tell you who you really worship!!!
| All Muslims world-wide agree on the five Contact Prayers (Salat), how
| many units they should be, and when they should be prayed
| "God cites the Example of a man who deals with disputing partners
| (i.e.Hadith), compared to a man who deals with only one consistent
| source (i.e.Quran). Are they the same ? Praise be to God; most of
| them do not know. (39:29)
> This verse is referring to polytheism vs. monotheism. It is you who
> inserted the words "Hadith" and "Quran" in here, according to your own
> customized interpretation. There is no NEED for God to have been
> referring to "hadith" vs. "Quran" at a time when the FOCUS was on
> calling the Arabs away from polytheism!!!
Is the Qur'an God's message to the Arabs only, br. Hyder ? Then why are
you a Nuslim ? No, Allah's book is for all mankind, and can apply any
time. It is not frozen in time to the 6th and 7th century and to the
tribe in the Arabian desert. Please study the Qur'an. I cannot over
emphasize this advice to you.
| SALAT AND MATHEMATICS:
> [ Extensive text cut here; please feel free to refer to original note
> for reference on the so-called miraculous proof of the number 17.]
Have you actually verified any of these claims ? I have not done so as of
yet, but I plan to inshallah. Please remember Allah's commandment to
verify information before you accept or reject it. There can be "ithmun
atheem" or grave sin in denying true information about the Qur'an.
> Even if these numbers do work out, it doees not answer the question of
> how a person who relies on QURAN ALONE would know how many rakats to
> pray in a day. Any blind follower of, oh, let's say Dr. Rashad
> Khalifa's theory, could just as well argue that the number of rakats
> required per day is: NINETEEN and not SEVENTEEN!
I cannot argue with you about the numeric code in the Qur'an yet. But I
ask again if you have actually verified the claims, or simply following
other people who reject it. If you have not verified it then you are in
the camp of "the blind leading the blind."
> (After all, if two verses could have been added to the Holy Quran at
> the end of the 9th surah, then maybe some hadith-transmitter might
> have cut out two of the rakats from salat and reduced it to SEVENTEEN
> when it used to be NINETEEN! A lot of cutting and pasting!)
This obviously meant to ridicule those who believe in the mathematical
miracle of the Qur'an. I am not qualified to explain it to you yet.
Perhaps someday soon inshallah if I learn it and if I am convinced of its
existence. Please do not ridicule something that you do not comprehend.
You stand a great chance of disobeying Allah (swt) if the information is
correct. You must verify the information, not only rejected because your
imam rejects it.
> A person existing before the time of Rashad Khalifa in the 1980s would
> still be praying seventeen rakats daily, but not because he sat around
> and counted out these patters with his abacus (they didn't have
> calculators back then) and figured... Hmmm, I guess I should pray 17.
> Actually, he should pray NINETEEN!
Why do you dictate how many rakaas there should be when the entire umma
agrees on that ? Are you inventing your own religion. Stop this childish
babble and face the issues like a grown up. If you are incapable of these
debates then I advise you to obstain from ridicule. It only reflects on
you.
I obviously will not continue this debate with Hyder, as he has
demostrated no knowledge of the Qur'an whatsoever so far. But I have
shown that what he has done is to take short snipes and illogical
arguments. Once should be ashamed for arguing with the word of Allah
(swt) for awaits those who argue with Allah's revelations a great
retribution.
Salam,
Muhammad Abdullah
Y Rapido
Re: Muhammadans and their 500 000 "Hadith" (and than some!)
There is a saying: "There is none so blind as the one who does
not wish to see!"
Muhammadans need their man-made intervention, which is merely an
Oligarchic and Theocratic tool to safeguard and RESERVE
explanation of the Quran and Islam (and than some, including evey
little tiny aspect of human life and human intellect function) to the
"respectable scholars". It is their tool, same as all other man-made
scriptures that distorted and misdirected many other religions,
including the major religions coming from the Middle East.
In other words, they are ready to claim that there is an absolute
need for even as many as 500 000 or even MILLIONS of statements
attributed to Prophet Muhammad, his family, his contemporaries, etc.
etc., in order to "justify" explanation of a basic ritual that can be
written down on two or three typewritten pages of text.
They are not going to see those rituals as something that was already
known to people, they are not going to see the ritual explained in
the Quran. They are not going to see, because, amongst several
issues, they would loose the claim that their man-made "hadith" is
neccessary to explain the contact prayer -- although, as some decent
people claimed, their "Hadith" actaully does not explains that prayer.
People who do not understand that God-Man relation promoted and
called for in the Quran is the FOUNDATION of the concept of
Individualism -- a concept of thinking, free and willing worshiper
of God -- a concept that is in direct opposition to Arab (and other)
tribalism, paganism, psychology of a mass of people who are looking
out for someone else to do the thinking and leading for them.
Indeed, none is so blind as the one who does not wish to see!
Craig Paul
> {2} FIVE PRAYERS A DAY AND THEIR TIME :
>
> God gave us the times for the Salat (contact Prayers) in the Quran :
>
>
> (1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11:114, 24:58
> (2)The Noon Prayer (Zuher in Arabic) , given in 17:78
> (3)The Afternoon Prayer (Asr in Arabic), given in 2:238
> (4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib in Arabic, given in 11:114
> (5) The Night Prayer (Isha in Arabic, given in 24:58
I noticed that your analysis of the prayer times (s.alat) contained
the Asr prayer in 2:238. It was not named the Asr prayer in that
verse, however. Same with the sunset prayer 11:114. (See below).
The Fajr prayer is also given, by name, in only 17:78 and 24:58
Zuhur is only given in 30:18. That particular verse doesn't contain
the root for salat.
The Asr prayer, by name, is not contained in any Qur'anic verses, nor
is the root for Magrib.
The root for the word 'Isha is contained in 24:58, 30:18, and 40:55.
Here are all the Qur'anic verses and their Arabic words I could find
specifying times of day.
- times of day of
- the midmost (alwust.aa) prayer 2:238 (alternate interpretation)
- the two ends of daylight (t.arafii alnahaar), early watches of the
night (zulafan min alleil) (approach or advance of night) 11:114
- the sun has passed zenith (duluuk) till the darkness of night (ghasaq
alleil) , recitation at dawn (fajr) 17:78
- rise from sleep and pray during the night as a free offering 17:79
- before risings of the sun (t.uluu' alshams), before sunset (ghuruub),
some hours of the night (alleil) and day (at.araaf alnahaar - ends of
daylight - dawn and dusk) 20:130
**** Asad translation irregularity ***
- morning (ghuduu) and evening (aas.aal - time just before sunset) 24:36
- daybreak (fajr), middle of the day (z.ahiira) and nightfall ('ishaa)
24:58
- enter upon the evening hours (h(1)iina tumsuun - approach evening)
and rising at morning (h(1)iina tus.bih(1)uun - approach the morning)
30:17
- noon (h(1)iina tuz.hiruun - approaching noon) and afternoon
('ashiyaan - nightfall) 30:18
*** Asad translation irregularity ***
- impelled to rise from their beds at night 32:16
- morning (bukratan) and evening (as.iilaan - time just before sunset)
33:42
- eventide (al'ashii) and sunrise (alishraaq) (when David extolled God's
glory) 38:18
- evening (al'ishii) and morning (alibkaar) 40:55
- before sunrise (t.uluu' alshams) and before sunset (ghuruub) 50:39
- and in the night 50:40
- lieing asleep during a small part the night 51:17
- whenever rising from sleep 52:48
- at night and at the time when the stars retreat (idbara alnujuum) 52:49
- half the night or more 73:2-4
- morning (bukratan) and evening (as.ilaan - time just before sunset) 76:25
- during some of the night and throughout the long night 76:26
- summary
- fajr 17:78, 24:58
- when the stars retreat 52:49
- beginning of daylight (one of the two ends of daylight) 11:114, 20:130
- before sunrise 20:130, 50:39
- approach of morning 30:17
- morning
- (b.k.r) 33:42, 40:55, 76:25
- (gh.d.w) 24:36
- approaching noon (z..h.r) 30:18
- midmost prayer (w.s.t.) 2:238
- noon (z..h.r) 24:58
- after zenith 17:78
- before sunset 24:36, 50:39
- (a.s..l) 24:36, 33:42, 76:25
- end of daylight (one of the two ends of daylight) 11:114, 20:130
- approach of evening 30:17
- as night advances 11:114
- darkness of night 17:78
- evening
- ('.sh.w) 24:58, 30:18, 40:55
fajr bod sunrise morning noon afternoon a.s..l sunset eod '.sh.w l.i.l
11:114 50:39 24:36 2:238 24:36 50:39 11:114 11:114
20:130 20:130 33:42 30:18 33:42 20:130 20:130 30:18 20:130
17:78 40:55 17:78 40:55 17:78
24:58 76:25 24:58 76:25 24:58 17:79
...30:17... ...30:17... 32:16
50:40
51:17
52:48
.52:49. 52:49