there are too many articles for me to include some quotations from all
of them, so i thought i'd start afresh....i wanted to add my $ 0.02 to
this thread, because i think there is something missing from this
first of all, let me just say that i, too, am a "young person"--i'm 21
years old--and as i think we would all agree, it would be no
exaggeration to say that i deal with sexuality everyday. i am a
student at a small liberal-arts college
which is QUITE liberal, and very much "into" the arts--so there are
(obviously) many other young adults around who not only deal with
sexuality, but who also seem to flaunt it (however they choose to
define it). the toughest issue for me in all of this is that i happen
to be a Christian (good heavens, not one of those!! ;) )
in an environment that, for all intents and purposes, would love to
"change my mind" on many issues (including sexuality).
there is a point to me saying this...please bear with me...
i was a christian when i entered college, but i was one of those
"experimenting" christians, trying to figure out what really wasn't so
bad if i changed the way i looked at it--that is, i tried to
accommodate a lot of what went on at college into my Christianity,
instead of not compromising what it meant to be a Christian. but at
that point i really didn't know better--i wasn't really living as a
christian, i only thought it was a sort of academic perspective. i
don't think i need to get into any detail (although there isn't much,
luckily!) but i wanted you all to know where i'm coming from before i
say what i'm about to say, because it is important.
one of the most important things that we, as Christians, must realize
and understand is that (yes) we do have to live in a world that is
very physically real, that influences us, entices us, makes us feel
good, and sometimes makes us feel bad. but, we also must not forget
that our bodies are temples in which the Holy Spirit of God resides.
these flesh-tents are holy if we do, indeed, belong to God, and it is
with this fact in mind that we must conduct ourselves, in all matters.
NO MATTER WHAT ISSUE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. i often hear christian
friends asking others (and themselves) if they would do particular
things "if Jesus were here..." the thing is, Jesus IS "here"--we've
invited His Spirit to reside within us. i think that the reason many
people lose the "joy of their salvation" is because they forget this
principle, or they choose to ignore it. this didn't occur to me until
a year and a half ago, and i've been a christian for quite some time
(since i was 12)!
i'm not posting this to "flame" anyone. i just wanted to remind
everyone that we, as Christians, are not only priests unto God (my
Protestantism leaks through), but we are also holy temples--we should
consider this when we do/decide to engage in any sort of sexual OR
non-sexual behaviors. there is a time and a place for them that ARE
riteous, and good, and holy -- the principle of us being temples of
the Holy Spirit, I think, is a good "filler" when the Bible is vague
or unclear on many issues like this "sexuality issue".
respectfully yours in Christ,
"meet me by the Tree of Life when you get up there--i'll be the one
wearing white..." :)
: God created us as sexual beings. Although we start experiencing our
: sexuality at early ages, it slaps us in the face at puberty. My
[More stuff deleted]
: expressed and what a godly view of it is. I don't think that God
: intended for me to completely repress something that he's given me and
: then expect me to live up to this standard of chastity before marriage.
I don't quite get your point here. Are you saying that it is okay
to act according to your natural instincts once in a while since they
were given to you by God? Man, instinctively, is bound to sin; but
does that justify sinning? Hardly! This is almost like saying that God
created the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and didn't really mind
Adam and Eve eating from it.
"God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond
what you are able" I Cor 10:13.
Paul writes in Romans 20:3 that the Law was given to us that we would have
knowledge of good and evil. It seems God didn't mind giving us knowledge
of good and evil, just warned us that it would be our choice. Of course,
God does not expect anyone to live up to the standards of the law. And if
the Old Testament Laws weren't difficult enough, Jesus gave us tougher ones.
Not only is adultery wrong, but also lustful glances. It think in a nutshell,
the message of Jesus and the law was not that the law is wrong, but that it
is a guide for our actions, to help us grow, so that we can live life to the
fullest. He did not come to condemn the world. The law is not meant to piss
us off and make life difficult. The law is a guide. Does that mean you can
ignore it? No. Does that mean that you should live up to it as best you can
in full knowledge that you will be forgiven and that God understands your
weakness and not beat yourself up over it? Yes.
The attitude that somehow pretending that you didn't want to go to bed with
that person, but somehow you lost it and couldn't help it and now God can
forgive you, but if you consider the facts and still decide that even though
it's strictly against the guide we've been given, you're still going to be
sexually active, somehow you are not forgiven. I don't think you can truly
repent until you've accepted responsibility for the sin in the first place and
then come to an understanding of how it has hurt you (damaged your reputation,
loss of self-respect, disease, unplanned pregnancy). Many of us go through
stages of denial that we have done anything wrong, we bargain with God to
make sure what we did wasn't 'too' bad. Once we've established that we're
not really evil, we proved to ourselves that God still loves us, and we'll try
that much harder next time. But it won't work. No one is justified through
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm working real hard at
remaining faithful to our calling to remain sexually pure. However, I
think that doing so requires more than just "saying no". As I've been
thinking, praying, and studying more about this topic the last few
weeks, I've come to realize that what I'm actually looking for, as far
as discussion goes, is thoughts on what needs we try to get met through
acting upon our sexuality, what needs are God designed sex to meet, and
how we go about trying to get needs met through sex that are better met
in another way. I've grown up with, and still face, the attitude that
our sexuality is just something that should be completely ignored until
we're married, if you're a "good Christian". I know this analogy is
stretching it just a little, but it's almost like saying that your
physical hunger should be ignored until mealtime.
Again, I'm not at all saying that just because I have some urge that I'm
looking for ways to justify it. I just think that a healthier perspective
on what sexuality is really all about would make it easier for me to hold
to the calling that I have, and help others do the same. My whole
motivation in starting this discussion thread is to find ways to help me
keep from sinning (as in premarital sex). I hold strongly to the verse
that you quoted. I think part of my responsibility in holding to this is
to do what I can to keep myself out of dangerous situations and trust
that God will do the same. For me, repressing a natural desire, instead
of trying to understand it, is just setting myself up for trouble.
I hope that I've cleared that up.
Paul Conditt Internet: con...@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu
Applied Research Phone: (512) 835-3086 FAX: (512) 835-3416/3259
Laboratories Fedex: 10000 Burnet Road, Austin, Texas 78758-4423
University of Texas Postal: P.O. Box 8029, Austin, Texas 78713-8029
Austin, Texas <----- the most wonderful place in Texas to live
no witty sayings or quotes here
Hello, Can anyone tell me if it is against the Christian religion to
masterbate? Please answer over the net and not directly to me, thanks.
God created us as sexual beings. [...] I don't think that God
intended for me to completely repress something that he's given me [...]
Man, instinctively, is bound to sin; but does that justify sinning? Hardly!
Is masturbation a sin? This is something I have always pondered about,
so I'm glad I didn't have to start the thread <grin>.
I gather that the bible never comes right out and says it either way.
Which churches or religions say yes, and which say no? For those who
believe it is a sin -- how do they discourage the behavior in their
children and deal with it if it happens? Are there books out there
that state that it is in fact a Bad Thing? Do they suggest ways to
reduce or eliminate the problem?
The world religious climate in general has moved from severely
anti-masturbation to a much more tolerant stance. Is this perhaps
on the way out, along with not eating pork?
Perspiring palms want to know
I'm a poet and I'm unaware of it.
>I gather that the bible never comes right out and says it either way.
>Which churches or religions say yes, and which say no? For those who
>believe it is a sin -- how do they discourage the behavior in their
>children and deal with it if it happens? Are there books out there
>that state that it is in fact a Bad Thing? Do they suggest ways to
>reduce or eliminate the problem?
>The world religious climate in general has moved from severely
>anti-masturbation to a much more tolerant stance. Is this perhaps
>on the way out, along with not eating pork?
> Perspiring palms want to know
The Catholic Church has always, and continues to even now, teach that
masturbation is a sin. In an article in the "Michigan Catholic", a
brief summary of the new catechism which has been issued by (I forget
which body of) the Catholic Church states that the new catechism (not
yet available in English, by the way) reaffirms the church's position on
this matter. Thus, I don't think it's on its way out at all as far as
Catholics are concerned.
As far as your question of how one discourages this behavior in one's
children, I can only speak from the personal experiences of those other
Catholics that I know well (I have no children of my own), as well as my
experiences in my own family, and it appears to me as though not much is
done outside of the typical "don't do it, it's a sin" sort of thing that
was mentioned in another post in this thread.
As far as it being mentioned in a books, the only place I've seen it
condemned is in Catholic catechism literature.
Hope this helps to answer your question,
Satan is never so well served as when people start feeling guilty about
harmless small matters, thereby ignoring the real evils which they underwrite.
For example, when I went to the world's largest Baptist university back in the
1950s, people argued endlessly about such trivia as whether the bible
allows "mixed-bathing" (I was not from Texas but from Alabama, where they
phrase implied a bath tub!), whether Jesus would dared have made fermented
wine, where dancing was not allowed (unless you did it off campus and called
it a "function"), where people sported "I buy dry!" buttons while ordering
"Baptist tea" (i.e., a beer with the foam wiped off and with lemon and mint
conspicuously put at the top of the glass).......
Meanwhile, this institution (Baylor) would not allow a black student to
enter (much less a black faculty member), not even converts of Baylor
graduates who were missionaries in Africa. The institution never addressed
issues of economic justice or gender justice. These petty concerns blinded us
to the major sins of our time.
Nero said, "Let them eat cake." Just as evil are those who usurp the
Church for narrow, petty agendas.
Enjoy the equipment which God has made delightful. God did not turn out the
light when He made your penis or when She made your vagina. Hurt no one with it.
Never have joyless sex; eschew sex out of desperation. Do not become
obsessed with sex either. Integrate your sexuality with your spirituality.
Prayer and sex belong together. After any orgasm, always thank the creator.
Remember to snuggle, even if alone and only through fantasy. Through these
miraculous gifts God intends to bring us together.
How nice if most other moral issues could be resolved as clearly as the
question of how to use a good thing lovingly, respectfully. Holiness
derives from wholeness, not from a Sunday School checklist.
May you enjoy wholeness.
Louie Crew, Assoc. Prof., Academic Foundations Dept., Rutgers U./NWK 07102
Closets are for prayer!