Reports of LA Gang Connections to McCartney

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Bill Cleere

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Dec 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/7/97
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I'd be interested in hearing reaction from this newsgroup
to the ABC/ESPN inevestigative report on the pipeline
which apparently ran from the Los Angeles Crips and Bloods
to Mike McCartney's national championship football team
at the University of Colorado.

There's a rather sparse summary at:

http://espnet.sportszone.com/gen/features/gangs/saturday.html

-- Bill Cleere
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Michael S. Scheidell

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Dec 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/8/97
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On Sun, 07 Dec 1997 20:07:47 -0800, Bill Cleere wrote<rcl...@best.com>:

>I'd be interested in hearing reaction from this newsgroup
>to the ABC/ESPN inevestigative report on the pipeline
>which apparently ran from the Los Angeles Crips and Bloods
>to Mike McCartney's national championship football team
>at the University of Colorado.
>
>There's a rather sparse summary at:

yeh, it says an assistant of mcartneys recruited gang members.

its like saying that Bill clinten ultimatly endorces murder since agents
working for him (fbi) killed people at waco.

--
Michael S. Scheidell,<><
Fight for free speech and privacy on the internet
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Mike Doughney

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Dec 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/8/97
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>
> I'd be interested in hearing reaction from this newsgroup
> to the ABC/ESPN inevestigative report on the pipeline
> which apparently ran from the Los Angeles Crips and Bloods
> to Mike McCartney's national championship football team
> at the University of Colorado.

Well, as I see it, people who run authoritarian, cell-structured
groups, if they're not in open conflict with each other, tend to stick
together. As an example, it's recently been revealed that Jerry
Falwell was bailed out by Sun Myung Moon's empire; the fact that they
have seemingly contradictory beliefs doesn't stop them from sharing
resources and having very similar long-term goals - that being the
establishment of a theocratic government.

Same thing goes for McCartney. He probably thinks gang members are
more receptive to his style of leadership. Conflicts with their
beliefs, or the ethics of recruiting gang members, are secondary to
his goal of leading a winning team.

Determining the consequences of someone like that running an
organization with the size and apparent influence of the Promise
Keepers is left as an exercise for the reader.

Mike Doughney
Biblical America Resistance Front
www.barf.org

not_d...@epix.net

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Dec 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/10/97
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Mike Doughney <mi...@mtd.com> wrote:

>>
>> I'd be interested in hearing reaction from this newsgroup
>> to the ABC/ESPN inevestigative report on the pipeline
>> which apparently ran from the Los Angeles Crips and Bloods
>> to Mike McCartney's national championship football team
>> at the University of Colorado.

>Well, as I see it, people who run authoritarian, cell-structured
>groups, if they're not in open conflict with each other, tend to stick
>together. As an example, it's recently been revealed that Jerry
>Falwell was bailed out by Sun Myung Moon's empire; the fact that they
>have seemingly contradictory beliefs doesn't stop them from sharing
>resources and having very similar long-term goals - that being the
>establishment of a theocratic government.

This seems to be a very tilted selfserving view, IMNTBHO. In as much
as the the constitution garentees freedom of religion, any adverse
attack by the government on one religious practice raises or lowers
the bar in defining what is legitimate government control of religion.

That is why I have seen people of widely different beliefs assisting
others in the practice of their religion. It is the same as defending
free speach. In as much as the governments inhibiting the political
speach of a discenting idology cannot be done without impacting the
very faberic which defends all our speach.

>Same thing goes for McCartney. He probably thinks gang members are
>more receptive to his style of leadership. Conflicts with their
>beliefs, or the ethics of recruiting gang members, are secondary to
>his goal of leading a winning team.

>Determining the consequences of someone like that running an
>organization with the size and apparent influence of the Promise
>Keepers is left as an exercise for the reader.

I must be missing something. Mike McCartney does not run Promise
Keepers. Bill McCartney runs Promise Keepers. How it has the link
been made between Mike and Bill, or we just assuming because they have
the same last name they are related in some way?


Regards
David Ronk
not_d...@epix.net

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Chris

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Dec 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/13/97
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Bill Cleere wrote:
>
> I'd be interested in hearing reaction from this newsgroup
> to the ABC/ESPN inevestigative report on the pipeline
> which apparently ran from the Los Angeles Crips and Bloods
> to Mike McCartney's national championship football team
> at the University of Colorado.
>
> There's a rather sparse summary at:
>
> http://espnet.sportszone.com/gen/features/gangs/saturday.html

All the story says is that some of _Bill_ McCartney's players were
former gang members. There is nothing to indicate that there was any
organizational connection at all. The coach who recruited these players
was a high school coach in LA, and McCartney dealt with him. It is not
even clear whether or not McCartney knew that these players were
affiliated with gangs.

My guess is that there are a lot of college football players that used
to be in gangs in teams all over the country.

It doesn't take much thought to figure out why the news media would make
such a big deal of such players being on McCartney's team in
particular. McCartney will be the center of a lot of special attention
on the part of the news media, some of whose members are strongly
opposed to PK.

=Fred

Tom Milligan

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Dec 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/14/97
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Michael S. Scheidell <postm...@nojunk.scheidell.org> wrote in article
<slrn68oska.l...@fdma.fdma.com>...
: On Sun, 07 Dec 1997 20:07:47 -0800, Bill Cleere wrote<rcl...@best.com>:
: >I'd be interested in hearing reaction from this newsgroup


: >to the ABC/ESPN inevestigative report on the pipeline
: >which apparently ran from the Los Angeles Crips and Bloods
: >to Mike McCartney's national championship football team
: >at the University of Colorado.

: >

So, is it bad to pull kids out of an environment where they will likely
either end up
dead or in jail and put them in an environment where they have a chance to
break
out of that pattern?

I guess I don't see the problem here. It seems to me that this should be
viewed as a positive thing. What am I missing?

Tom Milligan

Mike Doughney

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Dec 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/14/97
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> References: <348B72...@best.com> <971208212...@basement-1.mtd.com> <66m6cj$p0u$1...@news1.epix.net>
X-Mailer: VM 6.31 under Emacs 19.34.4

On December 10, not_d...@epix.net wrote:

> I must be missing something. Mike McCartney does not run Promise
> Keepers. Bill McCartney runs Promise Keepers. How it has the link
> been made between Mike and Bill, or we just assuming because they have
> the same last name they are related in some way?

The story directly references McCartney. (The link given for the story
doesn't work, you have to go to espn.sportsnet.com and use the 'more
features' link at the bottom to get to the gangs feature.) Excerpt:

: These days, Bill McCartney is the very public face of the Promise
: Keepers. The founder of the fastest-growing evangelical movement in
: the Western world can be seen everywhere, passionately urging men to
: recapture biblical authority within their families.
:
: He is touring the country, promoting a new book. He is a popular and
: charismatic speaker. You may have seen him recently on ABC's 20/20.
:
: In another lifetime, Bill McCartney was the head football coach at the
: University of Colorado. He won the national championship in 1990. As
: it turns out, that title was procured in no small part with gangsters
: from South Central Los Angeles.

> Mike Doughney <mi...@mtd.com> wrote:
>
> >Well, as I see it, people who run authoritarian, cell-structured
> >groups, if they're not in open conflict with each other, tend to stick
> >together. As an example, it's recently been revealed that Jerry
> >Falwell was bailed out by Sun Myung Moon's empire; the fact that they
> >have seemingly contradictory beliefs doesn't stop them from sharing
> >resources and having very similar long-term goals - that being the
> >establishment of a theocratic government.
>
> This seems to be a very tilted selfserving view, IMNTBHO.

As my license plate frame says, "I'd rather be living in a democracy."
I don't think that subverting our government, on the basis of a
rewrite of history that falsely insists that this nation was founded
as a "Christian nation," to one particular Biblical interpretation
is a good thing for anyone, including, over the long term,
Christianity itself.

> In as much
> as the the constitution garentees freedom of religion, any adverse
> attack by the government on one religious practice raises or lowers
> the bar in defining what is legitimate government control of religion.

And how does this follow from anything that I said?

The constitution guarantees freedom of religion. The issue is not -
despite the victimhood ploys of certain religious leaders - government
control of religion, but a government becoming controlled by a
particular flavor of religion. The Promise Keepers are part of a
huge movement attempting to bend American culture to make such a
political change possible. Again, this is a development that I
believe is a direct threat to me and to people I care about.

> That is why I have seen people of widely different beliefs assisting
> others in the practice of their religion. It is the same as defending
> free speach. In as much as the governments inhibiting the political
> speach of a discenting idology cannot be done without impacting the
> very faberic which defends all our speach.

Now, perhaps you should go brush up on how Sun Myung Moon and the
Unification Church have been destroying families for their own ends
for decades, and how religious leaders all across the board have
condemned the practices of his church, and then come back and tell me
why an allegedly good Christian guy like Falwell should accept money
from a convicted felon who's been running a religious cult abhorrent
to most Christians. You might start with the page at
http://www.fom.org/moon.

And again, you jump to a bogus appeal to the defense of free speech
when all I've put forward is one important question: why do these
allegedly Christian religious leaders - including the leader of the
Promise Keepers - apparently have no qualms about associating
themselves with known criminals?

Mike Doughney
Biblical America Resistance Front
www.barf.org

"mjstraw@gr...@grove.iup.edu

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Dec 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/16/97
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Relay-Version: ANU News - V6.1B10 04/18/95 OpenVMS AXP; site news.iup.edu
Path: grove.iup.edu!MJSTRAW
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian.promisekeepers
Subject: Re: More Rumors??? Re: LA Gang Connections to McCartney
Message-ID: <1997Dec16.1...@news.iup.edu>
From: mjs...@grove.iup.edu (Mark J Strawcutter)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:29:07 GMT
Reply-To: mjs...@grove.iup.edu
References: <348B72...@best.com> <971208212...@basement-1.mtd.com> <66m6cj$p0u$1...@news1.epix.net>
Organization: Indiana University of Pennsylvania
Nntp-Posting-Host: maple.grove.iup.edu
Lines: 22

>Mike Doughney <mi...@mtd.com> wrote:
...


>>Well, as I see it, people who run authoritarian, cell-structured
>>groups, if they're not in open conflict with each other, tend to stick
>>together. As an example, it's recently been revealed that Jerry
>>Falwell was bailed out by Sun Myung Moon's empire; the fact that they
>>have seemingly contradictory beliefs doesn't stop them from sharing
>>resources and having very similar long-term goals - that being the
>>establishment of a theocratic government.
>

>This seems to be a very tilted selfserving view, IMNTBHO. In as much


>as the the constitution garentees freedom of religion, any adverse
>attack by the government on one religious practice raises or lowers
>the bar in defining what is legitimate government control of religion.

...

I strongly suspect Mr Doughney is trolling. Best to ignore him. In his
original post, he pointed to http://www.barf.org - the "biblical america
resistance front" which appears to have been the "Bisexual and Radical
Feminist, International" until Oct 4 of this year.

/mjs

Jerry Bryson

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Dec 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/16/97
to

Mike Doughney <mi...@mtd.com> wrote:

>
> Now, perhaps you should go brush up on how Sun Myung Moon and the
> Unification Church have been destroying families for their own ends
> for decades, and how religious leaders all across the board have
> condemned the practices of his church, and then come back and tell me
> why an allegedly good Christian guy like Falwell should accept money
> from a convicted felon who's been running a religious cult abhorrent
> to most Christians. You might start with the page at
> http://www.fom.org/moon.

Because he needed the money?

>
> And again, you jump to a bogus appeal to the defense of free speech
> when all I've put forward is one important question:

No, he was comparing the cooperation between those who disagree, to
protect free speech; to the cooperation of religious leaders. LOUSY
analogy, I agree.

>why do these
> allegedly Christian religious leaders - including the leader of the
> Promise Keepers - apparently have no qualms about associating
> themselves with known criminals?

Beacause they needed the money, might be a good answer. Still a better
question might be: DID THIS HAPPEN? This is the only referrence I've
seen. No sources. So, do I believe it? I can't. I wouldn't put it
past Falwell, but I still don't believe it.


--
Nescio ne sum, ergo penso sum.

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