Was Moses murder of the Egyptian premeditated?

[Locksley O. Young]

In Exodus Ch21 the laws governing violence were announced and
premeditated murder should result in the death of the murderer but when
it was not premeditated the killer will be able to flee for his safety.
(Verse 13).
After reading this, my thoughts went back to Exodus 2, verse 12 and
wondered if that murder was premeditated, since Moses was able to flee
to safety in Midian later.

Thanks for your responses...

Locksley

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[Daniel McCarty]

>Exodus 2, verse 12 and
>wondered if that murder was premeditated,

That wasn't murder, it was self-defense, or rather defense of a person under
physical attack. The dominant society wouldn't have seen it that way, so Moses
had to leave.

[Augustine7777]

I don't think it was, if memory serves the body was buried in a shallow grave.

[BHZellner]

> That wasn't murder, it was self-defense, or rather
> defense of a person under physical attack. The
> dominant society wouldn't have seen it that way, so
> Moses had to leave.

My take on the matter is rather different. Moses was
a prince of Egypt. He could have said "That yahoo was
abusing a slave, and slaves are valuable, so I told him
to quit. But then he attacked ME, so I killed him."

Moses could have said that. Instead, he hid the body
in the sand and tried to hush up the whole thing ....
which suggests that his motives were not the best.

Ben

[bornagain]

"Locksley O. Young" <lock...@att.net> wrote in message
news:96r55f$37t$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...

>
>
> In Exodus Ch21 the laws governing violence were announced and
> premeditated murder should result in the death of the murderer but when
> it was not premeditated the killer will be able to flee for his safety.
> (Verse 13).
> After reading this, my thoughts went back to Exodus 2, verse 12 and
> wondered if that murder was premeditated, since Moses was able to flee
> to safety in Midian later.

Perhaps of equal interest is the situation with David who premeditated the
death of Uriah, so that he himself could have Bathsheba. But of course
through the valley of repentance he arrived at confession of his sins, where
he found refuge in a God who saves to the utmost.
--
born again

[xmas]

Daniel McCarty wrote:
>
> >Exodus 2, verse 12 and
> >wondered if that murder was premeditated,
>
> That wasn't murder, it was self-defense, or rather defense of a person under
> physical attack. The dominant society wouldn't have seen it that way, so Moses
> had to leave.

The way I know it described is as follows. There were two people
querreling/fighting. One was from the tribe of Moses, and the other was from
opposite tribe. It is not established which of the two was at fault. But Moses
reached out to help his tribesman.

Now how the murder actually happened is not known to me. Did moses intend to
kill the man? Did Moses just hit him normally without intending to be fatal, but
the blow proved fatal?

In either case it was murder. Moses being on the side of the righteousness is
not established. The primary motivating factor was tribalism.

It is true that the Israelites were generally oppressed. However it is not known
if the Israeli person involved in the fight (to whose help Moses came) was right
or wrong.

[Scott]

bornagain <born...@lineone.net> wrote in message ..

> Perhaps of equal interest is the situation with David who
premeditated the
> death of Uriah, so that he himself could have Bathsheba.
But of course
> through the valley of repentance he arrived at confession
of his sins, where
> he found refuge in a God who saves to the utmost.

Well said.

I've often wondered about David who could plan this death
and also write inspired psalms and challenge an armed giant
to a deadly fight in his belief and in his faith. It seems
that God understands the weakness of the flesh in His
creations, and that He gave us hearts and minds capable of
seeking His help, if we choose to.

God has a thousand ways, where I can see not one; when all
my means have reached their end, then His have just
begun....Anon

[xmas]

bornagain wrote:
>
> "Locksley O. Young" <lock...@att.net> wrote in message
> news:96r55f$37t$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...

>

> Perhaps of equal interest is the situation with David who premeditated the
> death of Uriah, so that he himself could have Bathsheba. But of course
> through the valley of repentance he arrived at confession of his sins, where
> he found refuge in a God who saves to the utmost.

This thing has always bothered me. David literally got away with murder.

According to the law of Moses, the murderer must be put to death. The adulterer
must be stoned to death. Nether happened in this case.

Further there is no evidence from Bible that David was repentent soon enough. At
least he spent unrepenting time for

1. Fall in love with some one elses wife
2. Meditate and plan to get that some one killed.
3. Actually carry out the plan to kill
4. Marry the woman after her husband was so killed. (In Moses law there is
perhaps a waiting time for this marriage to happen)
5. Enjoy this woman sexually

[looric]

Locksley O. Young <lock...@att.net> wrote in message
news:96r55f$37t$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
>
>

> In Exodus Ch21 the laws governing violence were announced and
> premeditated murder should result in the death of the murderer but when
> it was not premeditated the killer will be able to flee for his safety.
> (Verse 13).
> After reading this, my thoughts went back to Exodus 2, verse 12 and
> wondered if that murder was premeditated, since Moses was able to flee
> to safety in Midian later.
>

Since the Law was not yet given, Exodus 21 does not really apply to this
situation and besides, Moses was not yet walking the path the Lord had for
him, he was a pagan living in a pagan land. Also, it was Pharaoh whom Moses
was fleeing, not a fellow Israelite, and Exodus 21 only applies to the
circumcised.

[xmas]

looric wrote:
>
> Locksley O. Young <lock...@att.net> wrote in message
> news:96r55f$37t$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...

>

> Since the Law was not yet given, Exodus 21 does not really apply to this

This is trying to get away on technicalities.

The law of God has never changed, just like the laws in the living Universe do
not change. So the law has been the same from the time of creation till today,
and shall remain the same always.

Whatever law existed at the time of Moses committing the murder was no different
from that in Bible.

> situation and besides, Moses was not yet walking the path the Lord had for
> him, he was a pagan living in a pagan land.

Moses was not a pagan. He had not yet become a Prophet, but he was not a pagan.

Just like Jesus was just a carpenter before he became "walking in the path of
the Lord" but Jesus was never a Pagan.

> Also, it was Pharaoh whom Moses
> was fleeing, not a fellow Israelite, and Exodus 21 only applies to the
> circumcised.

What does a triviality like circumcision have to do with the law?

It is stated that when God wanted to send Moses back to Pharoh, Moses expressed
the fear that he had killed one of them: and that he could not speak fluently.
He asked God for help via Aroon. That was granted.

So Moses recognized that he had killed one person. That may well have been the
reason that he fled Egypt. Some one on this NG suggested that Moses could just
claim that he killed in self defence. It is not surprising in USA today to value
such approaches. But for people like Moses it is the PIETY that is foremost. In
that regard it is not just the law of the land that matters, but more so the law
of God.

[Tom]

"xmas" <xm...@horn.com> wrote in message
news:976cmc$jmf$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...

>
>
>
>
> bornagain wrote:
> >
> > "Locksley O. Young" <lock...@att.net> wrote in message
> > news:96r55f$37t$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
>
> >
> > Perhaps of equal interest is the situation with David who premeditated
the
> > death of Uriah, so that he himself could have Bathsheba. But of course
> > through the valley of repentance he arrived at confession of his sins,
where
> > he found refuge in a God who saves to the utmost.
>
>
> This thing has always bothered me. David literally got away with murder.
>
> According to the law of Moses, the murderer must be put to death. The
adulterer
> must be stoned to death. Nether happened in this case.
>
> Further there is no evidence from Bible that David was repentent soon
enough. At
> least he spent unrepenting time for
>
> 1. Fall in love with some one elses wife
> 2. Meditate and plan to get that some one killed.
> 3. Actually carry out the plan to kill
> 4. Marry the woman after her husband was so killed. (In Moses law there is
> perhaps a waiting time for this marriage to happen)
> 5. Enjoy this woman sexually
>

)))

Wasn't is said in the Bible that David lost his son over this as punishment
from God ??

[redeemed]

On 23 Feb 2001 19:12:12 GMT, xmas <xm...@horn.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
>bornagain wrote:
>>
>> "Locksley O. Young" <lock...@att.net> wrote in message
>> news:96r55f$37t$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
>
>>
>> Perhaps of equal interest is the situation with David who premeditated the
>> death of Uriah, so that he himself could have Bathsheba. But of course
>> through the valley of repentance he arrived at confession of his sins, where
>> he found refuge in a God who saves to the utmost.
>
>
>This thing has always bothered me. David literally got away with murder.
>
>According to the law of Moses, the murderer must be put to death. The adulterer
>must be stoned to death. Nether happened in this case.

Two or three eye-witnesses with consistent testimony were required to
convict (Deut 17.6; 19.15; Matt 18.16,2 Cor 13.1; Heb 10.28). Where
do you suppose they would have found two or three eyewitnesses who
would be willing to testify to David's sins?

>
>Further there is no evidence from Bible that David was repentent soon enough.

David was content to go on as if nothing untoward had happened until
God sent Nathan with the prophetic word to break down the barriers
David had erected between himself and God (or between himself and
reality) and showed him quite graphically how wickedly he had behaved.
This is the way many of us are -- blind to our own sins. However, God
loves us too much to let us remain trapped in sin, far from the joy of
His presence.

[Fred A Stover]

Locksley O. Young wrote:
> In Exodus Ch21 the laws governing violence were announced and
> premeditated murder should result in the death of the murderer but
> when
> it was not premeditated the killer will be able to flee for his
> safety. (Verse 13).
> After reading this, my thoughts went back to Exodus 2, verse 12 and
> wondered if that murder was premeditated, since Moses was able to flee
> to safety in Midian later.
>
> Thanks for your responses...
>
> Locksley

Salvaged from an old harddrive.

Locksley,

It was a premeditated murder, for: "he looked this way and that way, and
when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the
sand" (Ex 2:12), which gave rise to the devil's claim to the body of Moses
(Jude 1:9). He had killed the Egyptian before the law was given and it was
when the law was given that condemnation was deferred until the judgment:
"death reigned from Adam to Moses" (Rom 5:14): the people of old time: "When
I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people
of old time" (Ezek 26:20). In the interim the price was paid.

--
His,

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