How do I get past the evil verses in the Old Testament?
Seon Ferguson
From: Seon Ferguson <seo...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Subject: How do I get past the evil verses in the Old Testament?
To: soc-relig...@moderators.isc.org
I have a question. I am still drawn to the Bahai view that all faiths
lead to God and that all the prophets of the world's main religions
came from God even after all that's happened. But I have a question
about the dark and evil Old Testament of the Bible. In the Old
Testament calls for the killing of: those who work on the Sabbath (and
it has been carried out in the Bible), adulterers, blastfemers (spell
check doesn't have the right spelling for that. Stupid thing oh and a
child has been stoned for this in the bible) false prophets,
rebellious sons and the "Good book" has called for women's hands to be
cut off if they squeeze a man's balls (no joking!) and says that
hanged men are killed by God which means God accepts every time
someone was killed in according to Jewish laws!
I'm not a jew hater btw and understand Christians are just as bad but
that's not what I'm struggling with.
So if I am to accept that Moses existed even without any evidence and
that the events of Exodus happened despite the lack of evidence and
that there was a Jewish race despite the evidence *takes breath* can
a Bahai please explain to me how I should look past these immoral
verses? I'm sincere. Sorry if I ruffle any feathers.
Maureen McCarthy
"If a community values its children, it must cherish their parents." - Dr. John Bowlby
"For this reason must all human beings powerfully sustain one another…"
The reason is that humanity like a tree and "it is needful for the bough to blossom, and leaf and fruit to flourish, and upon the interconnection of all parts of the world-tree, dependeth the flourishing of leaf and blossom, and the sweetness of the fruit.."
- Writings of the Baha’i Faith
> To: bahai...@bcca.org
> Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 08:23:39 -0800
> Subject: How do I get past the evil verses in the Old Testament?
> From: seo...@gmail.com
>
>
> From: Seon Ferguson <seo...@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 4:49 PM
> Subject: How do I get past the evil verses in the Old Testament?
>
>
> I have a question. I am still drawn to the Bahai view that all faiths
> lead to God and that all the prophets of the world's main religions
> came from God even after all that's happened. But I have a question
> about the dark and evil Old Testament of the Bible. In the Old
> Testament calls for the killing of: those who work on the Sabbath (and
> it has been carried out in the Bible), adulterers, blastfemers (spell
> check doesn't have the right spelling for that. Stupid thing oh and a
> child has been stoned for this in the bible) false prophets,
> rebellious sons and the "Good book" has called for women's hands to be
> cut off if they squeeze a man's balls (no joking!) and says that
> hanged men are killed by God which means God accepts every time
> someone was killed in according to Jewish laws!
>
> I'm not a jew hater btw and understand Christians are just as bad but
> that's not what I'm struggling with.
>
> So if I am to accept that Moses existed even without any evidence and
> that the events of Exodus happened despite the lack of evidence and
> that there was a Jewish race despite the evidence *takes breath* can
> a Bahai please explain to me how I should look past these immoral
> verses? I'm sincere. Sorry if I ruffle any feathers.
>
>
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.
Maureen McCarthy
"If a community values its children, it must cherish their parents." - Dr. John Bowlby
"For this reason must all human beings powerfully sustain one another…"
The reason is that humanity like a tree and "it is needful for the bough to blossom, and leaf and fruit to flourish, and upon the interconnection of all parts of the world-tree, dependeth the flourishing of leaf and blossom, and the sweetness of the fruit.."
- Writings of the Baha’i Faith
> To: bahai...@bcca.org
> Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 08:23:39 -0800
> Subject: How do I get past the evil verses in the Old Testament?
> From: seo...@gmail.com
>
>
> From: Seon Ferguson <seo...@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 4:49 PM
> Subject: How do I get past the evil verses in the Old Testament?
>
>
> I have a question. I am still drawn to the Bahai view that all faiths
> lead to God and that all the prophets of the world's main religions
> came from God even after all that's happened. But I have a question
> about the dark and evil Old Testament of the Bible. In the Old
> Testament calls for the killing of: those who work on the Sabbath (and
> it has been carried out in the Bible), adulterers, blastfemers (spell
> check doesn't have the right spelling for that. Stupid thing oh and a
> child has been stoned for this in the bible) false prophets,
> rebellious sons and the "Good book" has called for women's hands to be
> cut off if they squeeze a man's balls (no joking!) and says that
> hanged men are killed by God which means God accepts every time
> someone was killed in according to Jewish laws!
>
> I'm not a jew hater btw and understand Christians are just as bad but
> that's not what I'm struggling with.
>
> So if I am to accept that Moses existed even without any evidence and
> that the events of Exodus happened despite the lack of evidence and
> that there was a Jewish race despite the evidence *takes breath* can
> a Bahai please explain to me how I should look past these immoral
> verses? I'm sincere. Sorry if I ruffle any feathers.
>
>
Suzanne
I also have had difficulty with the harsh passages in the Old
Testament, but now I understand from the Baha'i Writings that humanity
has been going through stages that are like the stages of a human
being growing to maturity. The needs of a small child are different
from the needs of an adolescent (the stage we are currently in). Of
course this isn't an exact analogy because one doesn't raise a child
with fear, but with love, however in those days apparently the people
needed to be scared into following the straight path. I'll bet not
many people flaunted those laws so they were very rarely carried out.
They took them to heart and wouldn't consider breaking them.
I'm reminded of the analogy of a doctor giving an innoculation to a
small child. The child sees the doctor as mean and cruel for
attacking it with a needle, but the doctor knows that it is a mercy to
that child and so does it even though the child objects. The same is
true of having to fall in line to follow the religion of God. If it
leads to a good afterlife, and if our life in this world is very short
anyway, then seen from the eyes of eternity this would be a good
outcome.
However, in these days, since humanity has matured, we are told that
it is better to follow the laws of God out of love and not fear.
All best wishes,
Suzanne
mike
It's good to recall that Abraham appeared at a time and place where
human sacrifice was the norm. Children, virgins..etc. People communed
with their Gods' by sleeping with the temple prostitute. People
believed that their fates were not self-determined but imposed by the
Gods', hence there was no real sense of personal responsibility.
Without a notion of free will, people will not assume responsibility
for their acts.
So in relative terms the Jewish response was one of liberation when
Abraham proposed that you could actually change your fate through
prayer. He also brought forward the idea that you could sacrifice an
animal instead of your child (as they still do in some parts of India
to-this-day). Were it not for the Jews, we could very well have
continued on like the Aztecs. Personally, I'd accept being stoned for
disobedience over mindless sacrifice.
Moses again, rescued the Jews and perhaps western civilization from
reverting back to the ignorance and superstition of polytheism and all
the trappings of human sacrifice that go along with it.
Humanity owes Judaism a great debt of gratitude. As a Baha'i I
believe that their laws and seemingly harsh response to the abject
ignorance about them was suitable for that time and got us to where we
are and liberated us from the oppressive grip of those old religions.
Douglas McAdam
I cannot put my hand on the exact quote now but I think you may recall
what I am speaking of when I say the Guardian mentioned that man's
physical development ended his spiritual development began at a
certain time of a certain Revelation from God. And we have many
quotes telling us how the spiritual teachings are the same in each
religion and only the social teachings change. And that is because as
man develops and increases in numbers man then needs new laws to live
by and to create and maintain a new level of love and unity.
Obviously the Old Testament is informing us of ancient tribal days in
which man was more or less like children with no real intellectual
development and thus needed rewards and punishment fitting to the
conditions. Also we need to consider that although the Bible is
considered the Word of God we know it is not accurate in many ways for
man simply did not have the technology in which to record what the
Manifestation revealed. My goodness in this day and age we have dozens
of Bibles and scholars appear to chose one version and others chose
other versions.
So I don't tend to be literal in many cases of reviewing old Holy
Books. I recall going to Sunday school and in general growing up with
the church etc. but when I became a Baha'i and was reading what
Baha'u'llah had to say I recalled shouting to my fiance and teacher in
the other room, "Hey honey, did you know Baha'u'llah was the return
of Christ?" and she said "Yes I have been telling you this many times
but your focus was on other things." I think said to myself, "Gee,
there really was a Moses, Christ and Muhammad" . In other words it
took my belief in Baha'u'llah and the seemingly logical Teachings of
His that gave me such certitude.
regards,
doug
piedmont
"Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:squdnTvn0r-WuqPW...@giganews.com...
Seon,
I could be totally wrong, but here goes, (My Ocean search abilities are
slight so I'm going by memory).
The earlier teachings from God were more hear-say than directly transcribed
is one thought and could have been perverted by humans with good or bad
intentions,
a second thought is the further away one gets from the living time of a
Manifestation the more 'muddied' the teachings will become, again due to
reinterpretation, poor interpretation and the good or bad intentions of
humans.
The earliest teachings from God were hear-say, passed on verbally and later
written down, the teachings in the time of the Manifestation Muhammad is
almost directly transcribed and the teachings in the time of the
Manifestation Baha'ullah are the most accurate of all of Gods Manifestations
to date as many/most? where transcribed and review by Baha'ullah.
Are those older teachings exactly what God intended, perhaps, but also
perhaps not, we don't know.
Michael
Dean Betts
Thank you!
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bahai-fai...@bcca.org
I have unsubbed Dean.
Tom]
----- Original Message -----
From: "piedmont" <N...@Spam.net>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
To: <bahai...@bcca.org>
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: How do I get past the evil verses in the Old Testament?
>
> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:squdnTvn0r-WuqPW...@giganews.com...
>
> From: Seon Ferguson <seo...@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 4:49 PM
> Subject: How do I get past the evil verses in the Old Testament?
>
>