Orthodox Baha'is?
chn...@primenet.com
the Guardianship". Being relatively new to the Faith, this seems to go against
the principles of Unity that we espouse. I would appreciate any comments for or
against. The address was: http://wantree.com.au/techbase/bahai/guardian.html.
Thanks,
Chad
Graham Sorenson
>
> I was just browsing the Web and came across a site devoted to "Baha'is under
> the Guardianship". Being relatively new to the Faith, this seems to go
> against the principles of Unity that we espouse. I would appreciate any
> comments for or against.
Yes Chad, you are right that these people do go against the principles
of Unity that WE espouse.
They are known as "Covenant Breakers", (similiar to ex.communicated)
that is they deliberately call themselves "Baha'is" but are not Baha'is
as we know them. They are those who say they accept Baha'u'llah but do
not accept the Baha'i Faith as it is now. They deliberately try to
bring disrepute to the Faith by saying they are the "Real Baha'is" by
misquoting the Baha'i Scriptures for their own ends.
They are very few in number but are quite vocal.
Although it is not prohibited to read their misinformation, it is not
recommended to do so because it is close to the real facts but just
changed enough to further their own ends. Just seeing how many Baha'is
there are in the world, dispite these peoples activities, is partly
proof of their ineligability for acceptance as members of "The Baha'i
Faith". Millions of Baha'is as against very few of them..
Graham Sorenson
gra...@fragrant.demon.co.uk
--
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This Way.> http://www.demon.co.uk/murderon/fragrant/bahai.html
Gandhimohan Viswanathan
:I was just browsing the Web and came across a site devoted to "Baha'is
:under the Guardianship". Being relatively new to the Faith, this seems to
:go against the principles of Unity that we espouse. I would appreciate
: http://wantree.com.au/techbase/bahai/guardian.html.
I have yet to see the web site, but...
In the early history of the Faith, several small groups of Baha'is
decided they would form separate Bahai sects, which had a different
leadership from the rest. (Such groups are collectively called
"covenant-breakers" because they do not (allegedly) follow Baha'u'llah's
wishes relating to who should be the Head of the Faith.)
The orthodox Bahais are one particular groups of covenant breakers. In
the whole world, there are no more than a handful of covenant breakers
still in existence. Most of them have died or just drifted away from
the Bahai Faith.
There is a lot of literature about covenant-breakers.
Roger Doost
>I was just browsing the Web and came across a site devoted to "Baha'is under
>the Guardianship". Being relatively new to the Faith, this seems to go against
>the principles of Unity that we espouse. I would appreciate any comments
for or
>against. The address was: http://wantree.com.au/techbase/bahai/guardian.html.
>>Chad
**** In spite of all of Baha'u'llah's precautions, there have been people
throughout the last 1 1/2 century who have done their best in order to
divide Baha'is. That is why according to Baha'u'llah and Abdul'Baha, the
Covenant is considered so vital and so important and there is no sin greater
than breaking this covenant because it runs counter to the whole notion of
the Faith which is unity and harmony and absence of sectarianship. After
the Bab, some attempted to refute Baha'u'llah; a few became followers of his
brother, Azal. Upon Baha'u'llah's passing, a few followed Abdul'Baha's
brother, Mohammad Ali, another few refuted both Abdul'Baha and Mohammad Ali.
A few others attempted to create their own brand of Baha'ism. Upon
Abdul'Baha's passing, a few refuted Shoghi Effendi and started their own
branch. Upon Shoghi Effendi's passing, a Hand of the Cause, Mason Remey
claimed that he was the Guardian of the Faith and attempted to start his own
following. Without exception, all of these pathetic attempts in dividing
the glorious Faith of God have dismally failed because Baha'u'llah made it
clear that none of these will take root.
".... It is your duty to guard the religion of God so that none shall be
able to assail it outwardly or inwardly..." Abdul'Baha, the Promulgation of
Universal Peace, p. 452
"Baha'u'llah and the Master in many places have told us to shun entirely all
covenant-breakers as they are afflicted with what we might try and define as
a contagious spiritual disease; they have told us however, to pray for
them..." Principles of Bahai; Administration, p.22-23
Jean B. Hunter
>>I was just browsing the Web and came across a site devoted to "Baha'is under
>>the Guardianship". Being relatively new to the Faith, this seems to go against
>>the principles of Unity that we espouse. I would appreciate any comments for or
>>against. The address was: http://wantree.com.au/techbase/bahai/guardian.html.
and Roger Doost replied:
>**** In spite of all of Baha'u'llah's precautions, there have been people
>throughout the last 1 1/2 century who have done their best in order to
>divide Baha'is. That is why according to Baha'u'llah and Abdul'Baha, the
>Covenant is considered so vital and so important and there is no sin greater
>than breaking this covenant because it runs counter to the whole notion of
>the Faith which is unity and harmony and absence of sectarianship. After
>the Bab, some attempted to refute Baha'u'llah; a few became followers of his
>brother, Azal. Upon Baha'u'llah's passing, a few followed Abdul'Baha's
>brother, Mohammad Ali, another few refuted both Abdul'Baha and Mohammad Ali.
>A few others attempted to create their own brand of Baha'ism. Upon
>Abdul'Baha's passing, a few refuted Shoghi Effendi and started their own
>branch. Upon Shoghi Effendi's passing, a Hand of the Cause, Mason Remey
>claimed that he was the Guardian of the Faith and attempted to start his own
>following. Without exception, all of these pathetic attempts in dividing
>the glorious Faith of God have dismally failed because Baha'u'llah made it
>clear that none of these will take root.
I read through several of the documents on the "Orthodox Baha'i" web site.
Mason Remey's claim to the Guardianship seemed fairly plausible (in the
absence of counterarguments from outside his camp), and he was evidently
able to persuade the French National Spiritual Assembly to support him, at
least for a time. However, Roger's capsule history of covenant breakers
indicates that each splinter group formed around a single individual (or in
opposition to an individual) during a transition in leadership of the Faith.
Surely personal loyalties and personal charisma were strong factors in each
split. What grief and distress these divisions must have caused to early
believers!
Several list contributors have expressed regret at the end of the
Guardianship and the loss of the focus and doctrinal infallibility that a
Guardian of Shoghi Effendi's stature would bring to the Faith. Yes, this
is a real loss. OTOH, the end of the Guardianship may help to prevent
future painful schisms. Under committee administration, transitions in
leadership should be more gradual, and individuals less likely to acquire
personal followings. IMHO this is a benefit that should not be
overlooked.
Regards,
Jean, the newbie
Matthew P Menge
>I was just browsing the Web and came across a site devoted to
"Baha'is under
>the Guardianship". Being relatively new to the Faith, this seems to
go against
>the principles of Unity that we espouse. I would appreciate any
comments for or
>against. The address was:
http://wantree.com.au/techbase/bahai/guardian.html.
Dear Chad,
This is probably a group that has broken the Covenant of
Baha'u'llah. They go by many names that make them appear to be the
Baha'is, like "Orthodox Baha'is", "Baha'is Under the Covenant", etc.
while we are simply called the Baha'i Faith.
What is important to understand is that these kinds of groups
were considered extremely harmful to the Faith by its founders. For
instance, 'Abdu'l-Baha said:
"It is evident that the axis of the oneness of the world of
humanity is the power of the Covenant and nothing else. Had the
Covenant not come to pass, had it not been revealed from the Supreme
Pen and had not the Book of the Covenant, like unto the ray of the
Sun of Reality, illuminated the world, the forces of the Cause of God
would have been utterly scattered and certain souls who were the
prisoners of their own passions and lusts would have taken into their
hands an axe, cutting the root of this Blessed Tree. Every person
would have pushed forward his own desire and every individual aired
his own opinion! Notwithstanding this great Covenant, a few
negligent souls galloped with their chargers into the battlefield,
thinking perchance they might be able to weaken the foundation of the
Cause of God: but praise be to to God all of them were afflicted with
regret and loss..."
('Abdu'l-Baha, _Tablets of the Divine Plan_ 8.8)
At the very end of 'Abdu'l-Baha's _Will and Testament_ he
states that those who disobey Shoghi Effendi are "like unto them that
have broken the Covenant after the Day of Ascension (of Baha'u'llah)"
and adds:
"All must seek guidance and turn unto the Center of the Cause
and the House of Justice. And he that turneth unto WHATSOEVER ELSE
is indeed in greivous error" (emphasis added).
I will not go into the claims of these other groups. What I
wish to stress is that 'Abdu'l-Baha believed that the groups that
have broken the Covenant are IMMEASURABLY harmful to the Baha'i
Faith.
I hope this helps,
Matt
Chris Manvell
>> the Guardianship". Being relatively new to the Faith, this seems to go
>> against the principles of Unity that we espouse. I would appreciate any
>> comments for or against.
There have been two replies to you request both of which mention
"covenant breakers" without relly explaining what they are. Baha'u'llah
made a Covenant with His followers, known as the Kitab-i-Ahd, in which
He named the Most Greast Branch ('Abdu'l-Baha) as the One to Whom all
must turn. He was to be the Interpreter of Baha'uy'llah's Writings and
the "Centre of His Covenant." The exact quote is -
The Will of the divine Testator is this: It is incumbent upon the
Aghsan, the Afnan and My Kindred to turn, one and all, their faces
towards the Most Mighty Branch. Consider that which We have revealed in
Our Most Holy Book: `When the ocean of My presence hath ebbed and the
Book of My Revelation is ended, turn your faces toward Him Whom God hath
purposed, Who hath branched from this Ancient Root.' The object of this
sacred verse is none other except the Most Mighty Branch [Abdu'l-Baha].
... Verily God hath ordained the station of the Greater Branch [Muhammad
Ali] to be beneath that of the Most Great Branch [Abdu'l-Baha]. ... We
have chosen `the Greater' after `the Most Great', as decreed by Him Who
is the All-Knowing, the All-Informed.
(Baha'u'llah: Tablets of Baha'u'llah, pages 221-222)
The first covenant breakers were Baha'u'llah's own family and some of
their friends. Muhammad Ali plotted against his elder brother, thereby
disobeying the Will of Baha'u'llah.
Further problems arose on the passing of 'Abdu'l-Baha. Abdu'l-Baha left
a Will and testament in which He named Shoghi Effendi as Centre of the
Covenant to whom all should turn. He also laid down conditions for
succession in the Guardianship and for the election of Houses of
Justice, especially the Universal House of Justice. Muhammad Ali
claimed that he should be the Centre of the Covenant on the basis of "We
have chosen `the Greater' after `the Most Great', as decreed by Him Who
is the All-Knowing, the All-Informed." However, Muhammad Ali had
already broken the Covenant by trying to usurp power, thereby cancelling
his right to succession.
Shoghi Effendi passed away without appointing a successor (the method of
appointment having been very clearly defined in 'Abdu'l-Baha's Will) so,
although the institution of the Guardianship still exists there is no
individual filling the role of Guardian and never can be as each
Guardian has to be appointed by his predecessor.
During the short period between the death of Shoghi Effendi and the
formation of the Universal House of Justice one of the Hands of the
Cause of God declared himself the living Guardian and, before he died he
named a successor. I believe it is the followers of this succession
that call themselves the "Orthodox Baha'is."
There is no doubt, if you read the two Will, as to how the Faith is to
develop around the Centre of the Covenant. However, there are always
those who for personal gain (not necessarily monetary) will try to usurp
the authority of the Centre of the Covenant and these are the covenant
breakers. We are instructed to have nothing to do with them. As
'Abdu'l-Baha wrote (I paraphrase) Covenant Breaking is like having a highly
contageous disease. Coming into contact with the sick person does
nothing to aid the cure of the disease but lays one open to catching it
oneself. This is easy as the Covenant Breakers mostly preach the truth,
just bending it ever so slightly to support their own ends.
Note that to be a Covenant Breaker one must be a declared Baha'i.
Non-believers, however vehemently they attack our Faith are not Covenant
Breakers.
Hope this helps,
Chris
--
==========================================================================
Chris Manvell, Isle of Skye, Scotland. Tel.:+44+(0)1471-822317
O ye peoples of the world! Know assuredly that My commandments are the
lamps of My loving providence among My servants, and the keys of My mercy
for My creatures. Thus hath it been sent down from the heaven of the Will
of your Lord, the Lord of Revelation. [Baha'u'llah]
Dr Steve Burgess
You are probably aware that the Faith has come under attack at certain times
from those who have broken the Covenant. You should familiarise yourself
with the Will and Testament of Abdu'l Baha and with the conditions required
for the appointment of a Guardian. Mason Remey claimed that he had assumed
the position of Guardian and was rejected by almost every Bahai. He was
later declared a Covenant breaker. The remainder of his small band of
followers continue to violate Bahai copyright and to dessimate information
which is clearly at variance with the teachings of Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l Baha
and Shoghi Effendi.
It is important that you discuss what you have seen with your Local
Spiritual Assembly or a Counsellor or Auxilliary Board Member near you.
Good luck and God bless.
Steve
rbarr
chn...@primenet.com wrote:
>
> I was just browsing the Web and came across a site devoted to "Baha'is under
> the Guardianship". Being relatively new to the Faith, this seems to go against
> the principles of Unity that we espouse. I would appreciate any comments for or
> against.
>
>
> Chad
>
> Dear Chad,
It appears you have stumbled upon a Web Page set up by an
individual who has set himself in opposition to the Covenant of
Baha'u'llah. You asked for comments so I offer the following:
"One of the enemies of the Cause is he who endeavours to
interpret the Words of Baha'u'llah and thereby colours the meaning
according to his capacity, and collects around him a following,
forming a different sect, promoting his own station, and making a
division in the Cause."
-'Abdu'l-Baha, quoted in Esslemont,Baha'u'llah and the New Era
"Now some of the mischief makers, with many strategems, are
seeking leadership, and in order to reach this position they instill
doubts among the friends that they may cause differences and that
these differences may result in their drawing a party to themselves. But the friends of God must be awake and must know that the scattering of these doubts hath as its motive personal desires and thea chievemet of leadership.
-Selections from the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Baha 214
"These [Covenant-breakers] do not doubt the validity of the
Covenant, but selfish motives have dragged them to this condition.
It is not that they ignore what they do - they are perfectly aware
and still they exhibit opposition."
-'Abdu'l-Baha, Power of the Covenant, Part II, 11
"...The believers are commanded to shun Covenant-breakers for
the same reason as healthy people do not associate with a person
suffering from a serious contagious illness. A contagiously sick
person cannot catch health from a thousand healthy people, but, on
the contrary, he can infect them with his illness. Therefore such a
person is quarantined and only those few people qualified to attend
him do so..., Then, if he proves adamant he is free to go his way, but
the Baha'is must cease to have any association with him until such
time as he repents when, of course, he can be accepted back into the
community."
-The Universal House of Justice, letter of 3-23-75
Yours in His service,
Kelly Barr
Lorraine Hawkins
read the convenant of baha-u-llah
Satya Hari
The Orthodox Bahais are a group of people who followed Charles Mason
Remey,himself a hand of God and so appointed by the Guardian shoghi
Effendi.At the death of Shoghi Effendi no will was found and so no new
guardian could be appointed.It may well be that Shoghi Effendi did not
appoint a new guardian as none of his male relatives was qualified as
many of Baha'u'llah's family broke with his cause in the interest of
power and ambition.C.M.Remey himself didn't qualify for the guardianship
as the will of Abdu'l-Baha states''that the guardian must be the first
born of the guardian or other male descendant of Baha'u'llah,C.M.Remey
was none of these he was an American.For more information see'' the
Covenant of Baha'u'llah''by Adib Taherzadeh pages 385-391.Shoghi Effendi
had no children so selecting his heir was a mute point.
-
SATYA HARI PYE...@prodigy.com
Yaman Monajid
>read the convenant of baha-u-llah
Sorry i do not understand what does bahai-u-llah mean ?
[The proper spelling is Baha'u'llah. -Mod]
Stephi Stevens
>>read the convenant of baha-u-llah
>
>Sorry i do not understand what does bahai-u-llah mean ?
>
>[The proper spelling is Baha'u'llah. -Mod]
>
Baha'u'llah means The Glory of God.
Loving regards,
Stephi
ste...@azstarnet.com
Abir Majid
Yaman Monajid <mon6...@uel.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>read the convenant of baha-u-llah
>
>
>Sorry i do not understand what does bahai-u-llah mean ?
>
>[The proper spelling is Baha'u'llah. -Mod]
>
I think the previous post was refering to a book by
Mr. Taherzadeh with the title: "The Covenant of Baha'u'llah".
Baha'u'llah is the name "assumed title" of the Prophet Founder
of the Baha'i Faith. It's Arabic and it means : "the Splendor
(or Glory) of God".