Blessed is the Spot
Sue Garcia
Good morning,
I tried posting a similar message last week, but I never saw it appear
on the group, so I'll try resending it.
When I was a junior youth, I learned how to chant "Remover of
Difficulties" in Persian. This has become my almost 4 year old
daughter's favorite prayer, and the other day shae asked me to chant
"Blessed is the Spot" in Persian also. I asked some of the Persain
believers in our area to teach it to me, but they all said they couldn't
find it anywhere in their Persian prayer books. Did Baha'u'llah reveal
this prayer in Arabic?
If anybody knows where to find this prayer in either Arabic or Persian,
or can send me an ASCII transliteration of it, I would be most grateful.
Thanks,
Sue Garcia
--
=======================================================================
=== Sue Garcia *.* Since how I feel is entirely
s...@cray.com `-' up to me, I choose to be happy.
=======================================================================
ren...@frii.com
I hate to ask this, but what is the point of learning a prayer when
you really don't understand what the words mean? It might be a nice
little chant, but the real meaning of the prayer is lost. I used to
say Allah-u-Abha after each prayer when I was a child; it was just
words. When I started to learn Persian (the phrase is Arabic, but
Persian has enough Arabic in it for me to grasp its meaning), then the
phrase suddenly gained meaning. Before it was little more than an
incantation--one which had been woefully mistranslated by the people
who had taught me!
I teach French. I often see parents show off children who have
learned little songs or poems in French. The children might do a
beautiful job, but it's not much more than what a Minah bird
does--repetion of words that do not mean anything to the child. Even
if you tell the child what the song, or the prayer. means, the child
doesn't know what the words mean. Why not teach them in a language
they know, so that they will understand at a much deeper level?
Mac
Sue Garcia
ren...@frii.com wrote:
>
> I hate to ask this, but what is the point of learning a prayer when
> you really don't understand what the words mean? It might be a nice
> little chant, but the real meaning of the prayer is lost.
Of course, you bring up some excellent points and interesting questions.
I would have to say, though, that the experience each child has with
other languages varies greatly from child to child. Personally, I've
always had a linguistics hobby, and when I was taught "Remover of
Difficulties" in Persian at about 13-14 years of age, I immediately sat
down with my limited knowledge of Persian, picked up only from being
immersed in the Faith, and figured out what each word and phrase of the
prayer meant.
Who knows if my daughter shares my interest in languages. If she
doesn't, she probably won't get much more out of it than you described.
If she does, she will have the opportunity to learn like I did. Or she
may fall somewhere in between. Either way, I see value in exposing
children to as many opportunities as possible, because we never know
which ones will mean something to that particular child.
Warm regards,
Saman Ahmadi
"Blessed is the spot" was in fact revealed in Arabic
by Baha'u'llah.
You can find it in the Persian translation of Shoghi
Effendi's "The Advent of Divine Justice" (zuhur-i adl-i ilahi).
It is towards the end of the book (page 179 or thereabouts).
regards,
-saman
Hami Missaghieh
Dear Mrs Garcia
I am certain that there are no persian translation of the "Remover of
Difficulties"Prayer and that the prayer was revealed in Arabic only.
warmest greetings
Hami.Missaghieh
>
>Good morning,
>
>I tried posting a similar message last week, but I never saw it appear
>on the group, so I'll try resending it.
>
>When I was a junior youth, I learned how to chant "Remover of
>Difficulties" in Persian. This has become my almost 4 year old
>daughter's favorite prayer, and the other day shae asked me to chant
>"Blessed is the Spot" in Persian also. I asked some of the Persain
>believers in our area to teach it to me, but they all said they
couldn't
>find it anywhere in their Persian prayer books. Did Baha'u'llah reveal
>this prayer in Arabic?
>
>If anybody knows where to find this prayer in either Arabic or Persian,
>or can send me an ASCII transliteration of it, I would be most
grateful.
>
>Thanks,
>Sue Garcia
>--
>=======================================================================
>=== Sue Garcia *.* Since how I feel is entirely
> s...@cray.com `-' up to me, I choose to be happy.
>=======================================================================
>
>
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Chris
In a message which I read on soc.religion.bahai, ren...@frii.com wrote
>I hate to ask this, but what is the point of learning a prayer when
>you really don't understand what the words mean? It might be a nice
>say Allah-u-Abha after each prayer when I was a child; it was just
>words. When I started to learn Persian (the phrase is Arabic, but
>Persian has enough Arabic in it for me to grasp its meaning), then the
>phrase suddenly gained meaning. Before it was little more than an
>incantation--one which had been woefully mistranslated by the people
>who had taught me!
>
>I teach French. I often see parents show off children who have
>learned little songs or poems in French. The children might do a
>beautiful job, but it's not much more than what a Minah bird
>does--repetion of words that do not mean anything to the child. Even
>if you tell the child what the song, or the prayer. means, the child
>doesn't know what the words mean. Why not teach them in a language
>they know, so that they will understand at a much deeper level?
Living, as I do, in a community where not only are there no Persian
believers but none within about 100 miles (and across a very expensive
bridge) I do not often have the bounty of hearing prayers being chanted
in any language, let alone Persian.
When I was in primary school, I learnt my times tables by rote.
Probably none of the children in my class understood the underlying
concepts of what we were learning. Similarly, I learnt to sing songs in
French and German (Brahm's Lullaby was one, I remember). All pretty
useless, you might say.
But the sound patterns of those tables were etched into our minds and,
in my case, are still there after some 50 years. The concept of
multiplication came later. As I grew up, I learned the meanings of the
songs I learnt and appreciated tham all the more. You yourself say that
you eventually learnt the real meaning of "Allah'u'Abha". And, the
child who just recites the prayer in Persian will eventually come to the
question "what does it mean?" Also, remember that while one person
recites a prayer, it is affecting every other person present, even if
the reciter does not know what they are saying.
So I say "go for it". Let children (and adults) learn the prayers by
rote and chant them. It can do no harm but could be the first step in
the creation of a multilingual scholar.
Love to you all,
Chris Manvell, Isle of Skye, Scotland. Tel.:+44+(0)1471-822317
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Verily, Jesus said: "Come ye after Me, and I will make you to become
fishers of men." In this day, however, We say: "Come ye after Me, that
We may make you to become quickeners of mankind." [Baha'u'llah]
For more info goto: <http://www.fragrant.demon.co.uk/bahai.html>
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Abir Majid
Sue Garcia wrote:
> ... Did Baha'u'llah reveal
> this prayer in Arabic?
>
> If anybody knows where to find this prayer in either Arabic or Persian,
> or can send me an ASCII transliteration of it, I would be most grateful.
It is in Arabic, and a couple of years ago it was chanted in Arabic on
one of the newsreel videos distributed occasionally by the USA NSA. I
know a friend who has a book with the Arabic text, and will try next
time I see her to get you more info.
--
------------------------------------------------
Abir Majid
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/1958
Bob Abrahams
Rachel has an interesting view of Baha'i prayers in Arabic and Farsi. Well
worth thinking about. There is a special feeling unique and powerful in
chanting prayers in Arabic.
I would like to receive an English tranliteration of Blessed is the Spot if
it is available. Thanks!!
warmest regards
Bob Abrahams
> From: Rachel Butson <mar...@netlink.com.au>
> To: bahai...@bcca.org
> Subject: Re: Blessed is the Spot
> Date: Monday, 13 October 1997 6:59
>
> Allah'u'Abha all,
> I don't have Blessed is the Spot off hand, no wait let me check,
>
> Now to the person who asked what was the point about learning prayers
> in languages one doesn't know. Well I can only pitch in my two cents,
> I am an Aussie and English is my mother tongue, but like Sue have had
> a facination with languages for many years. I grew up hearing the
> beautiful chanting and longed to be able to do it as well. The quiet
> spiritual atmosphere when a believer chants a prayer...ohhh I just
> revel in it, even though admittedly I, very rarely know what they are
> saying (I don't know Persian...yet).
>
> Well a few years ago I got up enough gumption to ask someone to teach
> me a chant, a tablet by 'Abdu'l-Baha that Bijan Khadem-Missagh wrote a
> nifty ditty to (admittedly it isn't what one would call "pure Persian
> chanting") but it is one of my favorite things I say (well sing then)
> during my prayers. I also got someone to give me a rough translation
> so that I could know what I was saying, haven't found it in English
> yet, and whilst I don't know the full meaning of each precice word, I
> know the general gist and quite frankly hey maybe it's the music, I
> absolutely adore chanting it. If nothing else, it quietens me down
> spiritually (I have a short attention span and get distracted easily),
> it is like a reverie I suppose.
>
> Arabic definitely has a different feel to it - hard to put in words,
> the Guardian did such a wonderful job in translation, but for some odd
> reason Arabic feels more intimate to me.
> Kindest as always
> Rachel
Anne Furlong
Dear all,
On the topic of prayers or chants in languages you don't know, and on the
wisdom of teaching such prayers to children:
There may be a distinction between teaching children (or anyone) prayers
which have not been translated into a language one speaks or reads, and
acquiring prayers available in one's own language either in the language
or origin or other languages.
In our community we regularly have prayers in Persian, Arabic, English,
French, and Inuktitut (Eastern Labrador dialect). We have had prayers in
Dutch, German, Chinese (Mandarin and Cantonese) recited or chanted at
Feasts or Holy Days.
Interestingly, most of the prayers are recognisable (particularly those
translated into languages other than English); and whenever we hear what
sounds to be a particularly beautiful prayer in Arabic or Persian, it's
not unusual to hear people asking, "Which one is that?" The most
interesting thing, though, is that when it turns out that the prayer is
not one that has been translated into English, people never pursue the
subject further.
Now, there are various short chants which we've all learned as a result of
having Persian believers in our community for many years; but by and
large, no one who learns them is content with just making the sounds:
everyone wants to know "what it means".
So my experience has been that there's a particular richness in learning
the prayers you love in other languages - either the language of origin,
or other languages into which it has been translated.
As well, I was brought up in the Catholic church in the old Latin days
(but I WAS a child of tender years when the mass began being said in the
vernacular). I loved then, and I love now, some of the passages in Latin
- and recall them tenaciously. For those who like languages, and the
sound of the human voice in all its richness, there is nothing quite as
nice as saying prayers or singing songs one knows well in various
languages, and particularly languages associated with the Founder of the
Faith.
There you are. I agree that merely making sounds that approximate the
language of origin (Arabic or Persian) is not appropriate - "my words fly
up, my thoughts remain below/Words without thoughts never to heaven go"
(or something similar, see Claudius' speech in _Hamlet_) - but in a world
where we are promoting unity in diversity, what can be the harm in
learning many versions of our beautiful prayers?
Ta,
Anne Furlong
afur...@ganymede.cs.mun.ca
St John's, Newfoundland Canada