communion
vah...@webtv.net
'Abdu'l-Baha says of this, as reported in Baha'u'llah and the New Era
p.89 from a talk reported by Miss Ethel Rosenberg, so it may well be a
Pilgrim's note,or may not , caveat given:'We must strive to attain to
that condition by being separated from all things and from the people of
the world and by turning to God alone.It will take some effort on the
part of man to attain to that condition,but he must work for it, strive
for it.We can attain to it by thinking and caring less for material
things and more for the spiritual.The further we go from the one, the
nearer we are to the other.The choice is ours.
'Our spiritual perception, our inward sight must be opened so that we
can see the signs and traces of God's spirit in everything.Everything
can reflect to us the light of the Spirit."
'Abdu'l-Baha , quoted in
-Spiritual Foundations:Prayer, Meditation anbd the Devotional Atttitude
#33.
Since it was used in Baha'u'llah and the New Era and in Spiritual
Foundaions and since it seems an answer to the question, I quote it here
as well.
It would appear from this and other Quotes in the Writings bearing on
the subject,and I do highly recommend Spiritual Foundations, for it has
a lot of these all together in a coherent fashion,that to attain to the
state of communion with God is something that will require a deal of
effort on the part of humanity,and involves a change of perspective from
material to spiritual in general.
Since we are surrounded by cultures emphasizing the material perspectve
of life,it is particularly difficult in this milieu to attain to a
condition of detachment from all save God, such that we see as
Baha'u'llah commands us, with His eye, not with our own.
To see the Universe and ourselves in the light of the truths and
perspectives enshrined in the Baha'i Writings does indeed require great
and persistent effort, not one herculean attempt, not an ascetic
hermeticism, but a gradual, day by day, drop by drop, transformation of
attitude, perspective, and action, until we begin , as 'Abdu'l-Baha has
told us, to see the traces of God's Spirit in all things.
There are shorter paths to this than others.
One such path is to take the Book of Prayers and Meditations by
Baha'u'llah, translated and compiled by Shoghi Effendi,and go through
the selections therein,perhaps even one or so per day, or as you wish,
perhaps allthe way through, perhaps over and over, or any other way in
which ine wishes to do this, stopping to meditate on all the images that
will be produced by these reading.
Baha'u;llah in His Meditations often uses images from nature, and
stresses the relation of those things to God by virtue of all things
being His handiwork.
Try going over these Prayers and Meditations Word by Word,then Verse by
Verse, then thought by thought, stopping to think of the meaning of
each, and meditating as said on the images these thoughts produce, as
well as on the sublimity of attitude they both betoken and engender.
Do this as well with the Hidden Words, perhaps at the same time using
one of each, or using the Gleanings,alternatively, and doing the same
thing with them.
Maybe take a little time each day, a few minutes perhaps, maybe at the
same time each day or night, when you are free from the day's concerns,
maybe ater the Obligatory Prayer, and using it and the Most Great Name
ninety -five times as a launch platform for further deepening on this
state in addition to being the fulfillment of the day's obligtions, plus
Verses morning and evening.
In a year's time, one should make some progress this way.
In the Qur'an God reveals: And seek help with patience and prayer...'
Often we know how to pray, but sometimes we forget the patience, I know
I do.:-)
Too, one can meditate on each Verse of the Obligatory Prayers, one of
the Master Keys to communion with God given us by Baha'u'llah, and ask
ourselves of each clause, how does this apply to my life, or how can I
apply this to my life?
With this, the 'simple act of worshipful meditation, the use of the Most
Great Name ninety -five times a day, which 'Abdu'l-Baha says in Tablets
of 'Abdu'-Baha , strengthens our Faith, and the daily recitation of at
least one Verse of Baha'u'llah's , or even one Word, is vital to
attaining and maintaining a condition of communion, the highest state.
The other Master Key He gave us is the Fast, and the Prayers He
revealed for that often produce a higher and deeper state or level of
communion, and especially when said during the Fast, than at other
times.
The Tablets of Visitation of the Bab and Baha'u'llah on the one hand,
and of 'Abdu'l-Baha on the other, when used on a regular basis, can also
lift us u into the relam of communion with God, showing us the way to
commune directly with the Spirits of the Bab, Baha'u'llah, and of
'Abdu'l-Baha, the Perfect Exemplar.
UIndeed the Founders and Cebtral Figue=res of our Faith have given us so
many ways to attain communion, that it is almost hard to know which one
to begin with.
So I chose 'Abdu'l-Baha's simple but by no means easy to follow,
instructions for this.
Do we attain to closer communion in times of tests?Well, we certainly
can if we pray then, and likely will.
But it seem that 'Abdu'l-Baha said that with effort, we can become able
to attain that condition at other times, and even at all times.
That many of us do not in today's world is no marvel, but also is no
proof that it cannot be done.
I felt that rather than share experiences I may have or have had, which
after all should become a regular part of one's life, it would be more
productive of resiults to share some thoughts as to how anyone and
everyone may go about attaining this state, in its various degrees to
which there is no end.
Remember, not just prayer but patience, not necessarily all at once
though it can certainly occur that way, at the pleasure of the Almighty,
but little by little, day by day,and ones soul can shine brighter, and
brighter, with the reflected light from the Sun of Truth, Baha'u'llah.
dmcadam
Hi John-
I'm not sure I can relate feelings where one's prayer transcends the mere
sounds of syllables and words or if one can communicate this higher state
you mention but I can relate feelings of the closeness of God when I walk
in the forests and shout the Greatest Name. Personally I have always
felt closer to God while alone and in the woods than in any other time.
But it always seems to be a glimpse of the mountain top and we seem to
have to fall back into the valley of trials and tribulations to
appreciate that mountain .
Often I remind myself that God has given us a beautiful world for our
spiritual growth and even though I can see the blemish, the environmental
problems and the gross effects of materialism I also can see some
wonderful spiritual buds on the trees that surely will come to bloom soon.
Guess I am kind of down to earth in the sense of "feeling" the divine
presence for I feel this kind of thing when my little dogs awaken me in
the morning with tails awagging and excitement in their eyes of the
prospect of me taking them out for their early morning business. Or the
pleasure of seeing my grandchildren developing. Just today I stopped
while riding my bike through the park and for a long time soaked up the
experience of seeing mother and dad geese and their six or eight goslings
not ten feet from me. And at that same time two adult Mallards came up
from the creek and brought five ducklings with them.
warmly,
doug
>Dear Friends: Bahaullah emphasizes in the Baha'i Writings that there is
>nothing more joyful or sweeter than the highest state communion with God. I
>lost one of the quotes on that, but really, this is stated in places in the
>New Testement, Torah and Quran as well.
>
>My question is to those here who may be more fortunate than me. Because I
>have a harder time attaining this sweeter state, well in fact the only times
>in my life I think I have attained it is in times of dire straights. I don't
>think that this state can be taught, I think one has to be born with it. But
>are there any people here who do attain to this sweetest state? I would
>appreciate it as being it fails me, if you share your's, I can share in
>that. I know that this is central to prayer and meditation and a disclaimer
>is, I do pray a lot and meditate a lot. So my not knowing what it's like
>except in a few times of dire need, to be in the most joyful communion with
>God is not due to a lack of prayer on my part. I pray out of obedience, out
>of hope, out of joy, out of celebration for my Lord. I have no problem with
>prayer.
>
>Any comments on this highest attainment would be welcome. au revoir john
>
>
>
>
Romane
don't *feel* spiritual?
How often do we, in moments of devotion, find ourselves with tears running
down our faces, or even just with tear-filled eyes? Sometimes, we feel
ecstatic, and sometimes, we just don't feel any different from before our
devotions. Still have those tears flowing, however.
I have come to a personal conclusion that moments of intense joy are not
necessarily moments of any emotional sensation, or even of any sensation at
all. They may be very intense, and when we feel them are very enjoyable and
making one want to feel that sensation again, but the intensity may on
occaision be so high that for our own protection, we just feel 'normal'. I
have found nothing in the Writings to say that "this is how it feels to be
joyful, this is how it feels to be spiritual". Perhaps, when we achieve such
a state, it will feel normal to us, but were we able to give that precise
sensation to another, they may feel an intense happiness.
Possibly, we are so conditioned to think that joy and spirituality are
things that we should feel with our existing earthly senses, that we forget
that we may actually be feeling them in our higher being, our spiritual
essence, and because we don't have this physical sensation, come away
feeling disappointed because an expected feeling did not occur, so the
disappointed feeling is the lack of an expectation being fulfilled. (Did
that make sense?)
Just some supposition
Romane
"John Haukness" <hauk...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:Vh74fD.A....@bounty.bcca.org...
`~=x[silvermask]x=~`
<hauk...@prodigy.net> wrote as follows:
> Dear Friends: Bahaullah emphasizes in the Baha'i Writings that there is
> nothing more joyful or sweeter than the highest state communion with God. I
<SNIP>
>
> My question is to those here who may be more fortunate than me. Because I
> have a harder time attaining this sweeter state, well in fact the only times
> in my life I think I have attained it is in times of dire straights. I don't
<SNIP>
> God is not due to a lack of prayer on my part. I pray out of obedience, out
> of hope, out of joy, out of celebration for my Lord. I have no problem with
> prayer.
>
> Any comments on this highest attainment would be welcome. au revoir john
My theory:
1. God is not matter, while our protoplasm is.
2. Protoplasm is the basis of our five senses.
3. Our five senses are the bridge between our spirit and the "matter"
universe.
4. Our consciousness is distracted by the the "matter" universe.
5. Are we able to experience the consciousness without the interference by
our five sense, and thus the "matter" universe. Perhaps, if we succeed in
that object, we may also be able to experience the Higher Consciousness.
/ \
/ \
/ \
_______________________
````` from'''''
`~=x[silvermask]x=~'
~~
\ /
~~
Suzanne Gerstner
> nothing more joyful or sweeter than the highest state communion with God.
I
Dear John,
I think you mean this quote by 'Abdu'l-Baha:
"There is nothing sweeter in the world of existence than prayer. Man must
live in a state of prayer. The most blessed condition is the condition of
prayer and supplication. Prayer is conversation with God. The greatest
attainment or the sweetest state is none other than conversation with God.
It creates spirituality, creates mindfulness and celestial feelings, begets
new attractions to theKingdom and engenders the susceptibilities of the
higher intelligence."
(Words of 'Abdu'-Baha cited in Star of the West, vol. VIII, no. 4 p. 41)
It's an interesting quote. Living in a constant state of prayer must mean
something else besides sitting and praying all the time, since we know that
we are forbidden to live monastic lives. I think it means living in a
constant state of love of God, and constnat awareness His presence; that He
is closer to us than our life's vain; and that our hearts are filled with
HIs light, and that this love and awareness informs every aspect of our
lives. We see beyond the human side of others to the spirit of God dwelling
within, and we respond to them as if they are precious, even if they are
filled with faults and frailties on the human level, since they are human
souls created by God, our Beloved, and that makes them beloved to us. It's
seeing every situation through the eyes of God (being aware of the
teachings -- at least on an unconscious level) all the time.
You say: I do pray a lot and meditate a lot. So my not knowing what it's
like
> except in a few times of dire need, to be in the most joyful communion
with
> God is not due to a lack of prayer on my part. I pray out of obedience,
out
> of hope, out of joy, out of celebration for my Lord. I have no problem
with
> prayer.
The prayers of the Manifestations of God have the effect of aligning our
wills with His will. I have noticed in your postings over the course of the
past couple of years that you are constantly trying to bring across the pure
teachings of the Faith. You are constantly proclaiming the truth of this
Cause. You are like a voice in the wilderness.
The fire of separation is part of the human condition. However, what is
the power which constantly motivates you to teach, John, day after day,
month after month, year after year? What is it that makes you want to pray
out of joy and out of celebration for your Lord? You must feel joy! You
must feel like celebrating Him. Is this not the sweetest state?
I guess I don't understand your question. ;-)
With love and light,
Suzanne
dmcadam
>My theory:
>
>1. God is not matter, while our protoplasm is.
>2. Protoplasm is the basis of our five senses.
>3. Our five senses are the bridge between our spirit and the "matter"
>universe.
>4. Our consciousness is distracted by the the "matter" universe.
>5. Are we able to experience the consciousness without the interference by
>our five sense, and thus the "matter" universe. Perhaps, if we succeed in
>that object, we may also be able to experience the Higher Consciousness.
According to the quote below and several others I have read it seems the
soul can perceive without interference of the physical senses or
intellectual powers. I tend to feel, based on several other quotes the
soul can commune with God without the use of the physical senses.
"The power and comprehension of the human spirit perceive and act in two
different modes. One way through instruments and organs....The other is
without instruments and organs." BWF p.326
warmly,
doug
PS my friend would it be too much trouble to have you sign your name
instead of "silvermask", unless of course this is your name.
Nasi Farhoumand, Realtor
I personally feel much closer to God, in moments of great difficulty.
The long Obligatory Prayer has an overwhelming effect on my soul too.
I also feel that way when teaching the Faith and whenI do it in a state
of complete detachment.
Nasi Farhoumand
> Reply to John Haukness message 5/19/2001 3:35 PM
> >Dear Friends: Bahaullah emphasizes in the Baha'i Writings that there
> is
> >nothing more joyful or sweeter than the highest state communion with
> God. I
> >lost one of the quotes on that, but really, this is stated in places
> in the
> >New Testement, Torah and Quran as well.
> >
> >My question is to those here who may be more fortunate than me.
> Because I
> >have a harder time attaining this sweeter state, well in fact the
> only times
> >in my life I think I have attained it is in times of dire straights.
> I don't
> >think that this state can be taught, I think one has to be born with
> it. But
> >are there any people here who do attain to this sweetest state? I
> would
> >appreciate it as being it fails me, if you share your's, I can share
> in
> >that. I know that this is central to prayer and meditation and a
> disclaimer
> >is, I do pray a lot and meditate a lot. So my not knowing what it's
> like
> >except in a few times of dire need, to be in the most joyful
> communion with
> >God is not due to a lack of prayer on my part. I pray out of
> obedience, out
> >of hope, out of joy, out of celebration for my Lord. I have no
> problem with
> >prayer.
> >
> >Any comments on this highest attainment would be welcome. au revoir
> john
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________________________
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Tom Nystel
I have found that God is willing to enter the heart of anyone who truly
seeks him, no matter what faith the seeker professes. All that is required
is a humble willingness to completely submit one's will to the Lord. This
seemingly simple requirement is, in fact, very difficult to achieve,
however. We are always wanting to hold something back - desire, resentment,
pride, whatever. So long as we insist on running our own lives, the Lord
will let us. If one does, through prayer, worship, meditation, and study,
reach a state of communion with God, one is usually changed forever. After
that, the experience may fade into memory, never to be repeated fully, but
the effect on the seeker is to open up their heart and make them much more
receptive to the call of God's spirit. The first time I truly felt God's
presence, it was overwhelming to my small human mind and heart. One cannot
live on the mountaintop. The valley always calls us back, and will continue
to do so as long as we live.
I think the original question was: can you do it again? That depends
entirely on your relationship with God. Most of the Godly people I know
study His word and pray regularly. I personally pray numerous times a day,
on the assumption that God is always listening and will hear me, whether I
feel Him or not. Sometimes, I can see or feel His presence, either in
people around me or in situations I find myself in, and sometimes just
because. The intensity of the original experience may never be replicated
for me, but when you live with God's spirit in your life, you cannot help
but feel the Presence from time to time.
dmcadam
Reply to Romane message 5/20/2001 3:11 PM
Dear friends-
Has anyone noticed the countenance of joy on the faces of the martyrs in
the Dawn Breakers?
warmly,
doug
John Haukness
just keep on trying. au revoir j
John Haukness
-- You must feel joy! You
>must feel like celebrating Him. Is this not the sweetest state?
>
>I guess I don't understand your question. ;-)
>
feel the itch, and I am thinking, I should be in prayerful ecstacy and not
be noticing any itching. Often during a prayer my mind drifts off to a day
event, or a future task, and I say, I'm not praying very well, which is
obvious. Usually, my life feels melencoly, but your encouragement, brings
out, yes, Bahaullah is always near me, always. I do not however usually feel
like I am in a sweetest attainment, usually I feel I am in a state of
distraction. It is very superficial I know, but usually I think if I had a
few million dollars, I'd be ok. au revoir j
John Haukness
yes, Doug's walk with the Mallards and your explanation are all adding
immensly to my tought on why my prayer and meditation seem so common to me.
But I do get those tears of joy and sensations, just usually not when I'm
saying my obligatory prayer. Vahid mentioned the Fast, and yes, during the
Fast i feel a little more sensation. But maybe it's not about sensation,
that could well be and I may be looking too much at sensation, if I were
just to look at my relationship with God, I feel lucky because God is all
around, all the time in my life, maybe that's better than ecstacy and being
the most happy person on earth. I will never win the competition for
happiest person on earth, that's for sure. But I'm far from the saddest too.
Somewhere around just below the middle. au revoir j
>"John Haukness" <hauk...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>news:Vh74fD.A....@bounty.bcca.org...
dmcadam
Reply to John Haukness message 5/21/2001 8:22 PM
Hi John-
This post of your indicates to me that indeed you are experiencing
communion. I had some further thoughts as I contemplated what you wrote and
hopefully I can capture them concisely without losing my meanings.
I recalled that saying about "Nothing do I see that I don't see God before,
during and after." (paraphrase) And the old saying attributed to
Confucius about how happiness is like a butterfly and if we remain still and
silent it will alight on our shoulder. The third thought that came to was
how we have all been raised with the idea of "Life, liberty and the pursuit
of happiness". Why should we have to pursue happiness? Why don't we just
relax and enjoy the process? All our problems can be traced to unsatisfied
needs, wants and desires and these things appear on all three levels of our
nature and awareness, i.e. animal, human and divine. In other words we have
needs, wants and desires on our physical, emotional, mental and spiritual
levels and if they are not satisfied we are unhappy and miserable.
In one of my deepening and transformation programs I inherited from my
mentor Marian Crist Lippitt, titled
Introduction To
THE WORLDS OF GOD
and
CLASSIFICATIONS OF THE WHOLE (OR REALITY) OF EXISTENCE
she said-
Who can tell us HOW to be happy in a world that is so full of evil,
frustrations and misery? When we look around for a source of enlightenment
on this subject, what do we find? Obviously this calls for superhuman
knowledge and extraordinary power.
OAbdu¹l-Baha, in his Paris talks, spoke of both joy and suffering. He said,
(PT, pages 109-10)
³In this world we are influenced by two sentiments, Joy and Pain.²
³Joy gives us wings! In times of joy our strength is more vital, our
intellect keener, and our understanding less clouded. We seem better able
to cope with the world and to find our sphere of usefulness. But when
sadness visits us we become weak, our strength leaves us, our comprehension
is dim and our intelligence veiled. The actualities of life seem to elude
our grasp, the eyes of our spirits fail to discover the sacred mysteries,
and we become even as dead beings.²
We know this is true, don¹t we! We¹ve all experienced exactly what he is
talking about. But how can we avoid being unhappy, in a world as confused
and unjust as ours is? How can we get around the numerous causes of our
miseries? Let¹s listen to him as he goes on:
³There is no human being untouched by these two influences; but the sorrow
and grief that exist come from the world of matter - the spiritual world
bestows only the joy! If we suffer it is the outcome of material things,
and all the trials and troubles come from this world of illusion. For
instance, a merchant may lose his trade and depression ensues. A workman is
dismissed and starvation stares him in the face. A farmer has a bad
harvest, anxiety fills his mind. A man builds a house which is burnt to the
ground and he is straightway homeless, ruined, and in despair.²
But these things actually exist! Why does OOAbdu¹l-Bahá speak of them as if
they were illusions? Let¹s listen further;
³Today, humanity is bowed down with trouble, no one escapes: but, thank
God, the remedy is at our doors. Let us turn our hearts away from the world
of matter and live in the spiritual world!² PT p.109-10
The big question is how do we do this? How CAN we live in the spiritual
world when we are so anchored in this earthly existence? Is what
OOAbdu¹l-Bahá is talking about something actually possible?- something that
I myself can DO? Is there, in reality, some way by which I can avoid being
weighed down with misery, and experience that joy and happiness that are so
precious? Exactly what is he asking of us?
This course has been designed to answer these questions.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In this program she helps us see how we can face and deal intelligently with
reality and as I thought about your post John I was wondering to myself, "If
we are facing and dealing intelligently with reality are we not also
communing with our Creator?" And this led me to think about "faith" and
how this is our "teachability" as Marian once told me. She had explained to
me how a young child would see a toaster for the first time and then ask the
parent what's it called, and would continue to ask questions and would
learn, in addition to its Names, its Acts, Attributes or Qualities, and on a
higher level its Life Patter and still higher on our map of reality the
child would learn of its Purpose and Powers and thus be informed of all
aspects or Phases of Reality concerning the Toaster. But then the child
might ask about where this power comes from and we would then be engaged in
explaining about the Power Source, the Transformer and how the electricity
is stepped down to be used to power Lamps or Appliances. In a sense the
child conceptually has been informed of God, the Manifestations and
Creation. But the point is that this child has learned solely through the
spirit of faith (our teachability) because its intellectual powers are not
yet developed. In a way the child is believing the parent is the
all-knowing and all-wise god in their life and thus has experienced a
communion. Are we now also not like spiritual children who are learning
thru our power of faith, accepting Baha'u'llah, learning from the Creator
what our name, acts, qualities, life pattern, purpose and powers are all
about? We are given a fool proof behavior pattern that brings us closer to
reality (to God) and thus our communion is an ongoing process. Every
sensation in the physical realm, every thought in our intellectual realm and
every spiritual virtue and verity we experience in the spiritual or inner
world is in a way communion with God if it be used for the right purpose.
Anger, for example is the opposite of Love and thus might not be considered
as part of our communion with God but if we channel this "satanic strength"
for the right purpose it is transformed into "heavenly power" to enlighten
us, and signalize a lack of virtues.
I could go on and on with examples John but the point I am so clumsily
trying to make is that we live in a station of servitude. If we are not
aware of this we are out of touch with our own reality and thus not fully in
communion with God. If we are in touch with this station or reality of
ourself then we need to know how to act as a servant and furthermore the
Creator has given us the powers to achieve this purpose. So then what is
the purpose of our intellectual powers, our imagination and reasoning, for
example if not for communion with God?
If our overall mission is oneness of all things, God, Religion and Mankind
then if we are working towards this goal are we not communing with Him, no
matter how little our effort and actions? And finally I will close this
unbearably long post with the following quotes, excerpts from a deepening
program-
Two-Way Communication With God Is Now Open; He Calls - How Do We Respond?
God Seeks Us, Speaks to Each Heart, But Our Divine Nature or Soul Can
Answer.
( a ) Behold how the manifold grace of God, which is being showered from the
clouds of Divine glory, hath, in this day, encompassed the world. For
whereas in days past every lover besought and searched after his Beloved, it
is the Beloved Himself Who now is calling His lovers and is inviting them to
attain His presence. Take heed lest ye forfeit so precious a favor; beware
lest ye belittle so remarkable a token of His grace.
(Baha'u'llah: Gleanings, Page: 320)
( b ) ³Prayer and supplication are two wings whereby man soars toward the
heavenly mansion of the True One... One must live in a perennial attitude of
prayer. When man is spiritually free, his mind becomes the altar and his
heart the sanctuary of prayer.²
(SOFW Vol. 9, pg. 113)
Baha`u`llah Teaches Us How to Pray; and Never Was Prayer So Precious, So
Essential.
( c ) Intone, O My servant, the verses of God that have been received by
thee, as intoned by them who have drawn nigh unto Him, that the sweetness of
thy melody may kindle thine own soul, and attract the hearts of all men.
Whoso recitethS the verses revealed by GodS Though he may, at first, remain
unaware of its effect, yet the virtue of the grace vouchsafed unto him must
needs sooner or later exercise its influence upon his soul.
(Baha'u'llah: Gleanings, Page: 295)
God bless us all,
doug
ZOULS...@aol.com
Brain". It was an article I enjoyed and goes along the topic being
discussed. It talks about science helping to prove religion out. ( which
although the article made no mention of the Bahai faith, we as Bahai's hold
this to be one of our core beliefs). Using radio-active Brain Mapping
scientist are able to see the part of the brain which is affect (lights up)
when a person is exposed to sensory stimulation of a spiritual nature, such
as a picture Jesus on the cross, a prayer, song, ect....... But more
interesting is the results of this brain mapping when a person is in a deep
meditative state, or in prayer to the extent that one is lost in that prayer
and detached from the things around him. It explained how certain areas of
the brain "SHUT_DOWN" during this time... these are the part of the brain
that have to do with allowing us to take in our surroundings, which ground
us to this earthly realm. It shuts down those parts of the brain which help
us orient to the difference between "ourselves and the rest of the world"
In
this deep meditative state we lose our ability to distinguish ourselves from
others, or the things around us. Much like a stage an infant goes thru in
the first year of life when she sees the mother and herself as one. Later
when our brains develope and we learn about boundries and where we stop and
someone else begins...... anyway.. during this state they found that there
is
a certain part of the brain which shuts down and another part which lights
up. I found this very interesting since it is also the part of the brain
which can produce hallucinations both visual and auditory. There was much
more to the article but its late and I am running short on time.
As to some of us being "born with this gift of going there" and some
of us not. I personally believe we all have the abilty to "go there'
...but
at some level this is discouraged in the faith, as some of us may not be
ready for that level of detachment to this realm and connection to another
one. I have worked as a psych nurse for about 15 years and can attest to
the
fact that some go there unprepared spiritually and never make it all the way
back. Perhaps this is why the faith does not "encourage " us as a whole to
develope this ability. Perhaps when we connect with God at that level we
must have the purest of hearts or we lose ourselves in a realm we are not
prepared for. As for myself I have had many experiences with andhave
witnessed others go to these " states of altered perception.
Romane
"dmcadam" <dmc...@iquest.net> wrote in message
news:KLgAFB.A....@bounty.bcca.org...
>
> Reply to John Haukness message 5/21/2001 8:22 PM
>
Your post raised some thoughts with me. It reminded me of something I read
recently (and many times before), but cannot at the moment remember if it
was Abdu'l-Baha or Shoghi Effendi; perhaps someone with a copy of Mars can
pinpoint it. It was to the effect that had it not been for those who tried
to destroy the Faith in its early days of the declaration of the Bab, His
message would not have been heard outside of Persia. The parallel that came
to mind in relation to this thread is that of being able to know something
by its opposite. So, if one is in a state of joy all the time, how does one
know that they are in this state - what is the reference point? Once we get
to the Abha Kingdom, we are assured by Baha'u'llah that we will then know
what joy is, and will live in such a state. I quote from page 171 of
Gleanings:
"They that are the followers of the one true God shall, the moment they
depart out of this life, experience such joy and gladness as would be
impossible to describe, ... "
But, we live in a realm of contrasts and of fluctuation. This shadow realm
is in a constant state of alteration - that which is assured now may not be
assured tomorrow. What better lesson on the path of detachment than the
bitter lesson of attachment? What better way to show what a heavenly state
is than to be presented with a state that is not heavenly. All these things
I see only as gentle guidance, loving hand-holding, to bring us to our true
state, that of a spiritual being.
>From the Arabic, Hidden Words
"48. O SON OF MAN!
For everything there is a sign. The sign of love is fortitude under My
decree and patience under My trials."
It's all a process of growth, and when we get "there" (wherever "there" is),
<grinning>, it will seem normal, and there will be new heights to climb.
Romane
Romane
>
> It is very superficial I know, but usually I think if I had a
> few million dollars, I'd be ok. au revoir j
>
interesting phrase from Prayers and Mediations by Baha'u'llah, page three,
toward the end of the second paragraph.
"vicissitudes of fortune"
In common conception, one is the opposite of the other.
Now, to put it in context, the whole paragraph.
"Methinks, the lamp of Thy love is burning in their hearts, and the light of
Thy tenderness is lit within their breasts. Adversities are incapable of
estranging them from Thy Cause, and the vicissitudes of fortune can never
cause them to stray from Thy pleasure."
Romane
John Haukness
Dear Friends: I was disappointed the article for personal reasons. It was
well written but I am a burned out American public school teacher, and am
very distressed that while Americans are in the trend of blaming the "fall"
of public schools, and being Americans continually deal with teen age
problems in the teen age problem years, when it's much too late, this same
research has been known for years in child psychology that with good
prenatal care and then good parenting the first three years of life,
determines among other things how well the brain is going to work for the
rest of that persons life. We look at Abdul Baha's emphasis on who important
the mother parent is to the child, and we think of it in terms of spiritual
terms, but it also is important to the brain development as well.
Of course, it's all a part of our relationship with God. But what is wrong
with American public schools was not a part of the Bush Gore debate, not a
part of any decent debate on what's wrong with public schools. But you can
make all the changes to private and public schools you want, until you fix
the staggering amount of deficits among some young unmarried and married
mothers in prenatal care, and the staggering deficits in both the mother and
father, the father who is often a non-existant, in the first three years of
life, then any kind of school system is going to fail. Because there are too
many baby's born with hurtful prenatal care and less that sufficient first
three years of child care. And by the 4th year of life, those deficits turn
into permanent problems. But America continues to think wait till there 15,
then we'll provide a fix. It isn't working though,a nd it never will work.
Love and the brain, the article is reaffirming what most good pediatricians.
gynecologists and child psychiatrists have known for a long time. I really
have no answer when the American's examined Columbine high school and all
the other school shootings we don't turn to pediatricians, gynocologists and
look at the parenting of those children's prenatal experience and then
experience the first three years of life. Instead it's like, that part of
life doesn't matter, there just baby's then that's not an important time,
what's important is like when you turn 5, that's when life get's important.
And we think that way, and the entire field of journalism covering the youth
problems look at it that way, and no one is understanding just what Abdul
Baha was trying to tell us. Maybe 100 years ago, someone will understand
just what Abdul Baha was telling us in regards to the brain, spirituality
and the first three years of life, which starts with conception. It's the
most important time of anyone's life. au revoir j
-----Original Message-----
From: ZOULS...@aol.com <ZOULS...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
To: bahai...@bcca.org <bahai...@bcca.org>
dmcadam
Reply to ZOULS...@aol.com message 5/25/2001 7:32 AM
Dear friend-
My understanding is that if we strive to obey the Covenant, acquire
virtues, teach the Faith, serve mankind etc. then extra powers are added
to us but if we try to acquire them specifically we may hurt ourselves.
There are some quotes in Lights of Guidance about advising us not to
dabble in psychic stuff.
I believe most of us can attest to heightened awareness and sensibility
during Fasts and during other fleeting moments and maybe this is a
glimpse of what it can be like if we strive to obey.
warmly,
doug
dmcadam
Reply to John Haukness message 5/26/2001 12:05 PM
Take two Baha'is, male and female. Deepen them. Finally they meet and
are attracted enough to follow the prescribed steps to marriage. They in
turn know their purpose and they pray into existence a child of God,
another servant of Baha. They then raise this child according to divine
prescriptions, give it proper academic as well as spiritual education,
blending science and religion etc. The child will have a much better
chance of being able to face and deal intelligently with reality in the
highest sense of the world meaning what has been Revealed by Baha'u'llah.
I think their brains will be quite different than ours.
At the moment, in this period of our development, we are mostly
strengthened in our physical and intellectual levels and just beginning
our spiritual development an education area our public schools cannot nor
will not service. According to my understanding of the Writings the soul
"just knows" its divine purpose of servitude and will function best when
normal relations between the physical body, rational powers and spirit
are in integrated in harmony with this divine purpose and the soul has
acquired the virtues needed for its effective mastery over all levels.
The body, the mind and our emotional energy are to be subservient to the
soul who in turn is in a state of servitude to God and humanity. Thus
all our powers are divinely created for a divine purpose of servitude and
it seems to me that mental health is when this harmony exists and if not
then mental illness results from the nervousness of the human being
pulled in extremes between the lower and higher natures. In other words
two conflicting messages to the brain will cause illness and in order to
create and maintain harmony we must turn to God and though obedience to
His Commands realize our true purpose in life.
I know what you mean by burn out John and at the same time we have the
power and capacity to function effeciently in all manner of stressful
environments, even public schools. If we love something it is not
stressful. Life is full of stress and we are conditioned to believe it
is harmful to us but in reality it is good for us. It is what we do
about the stressful situations that can harm us. If we knew the reality
of this stress, these tests we would welcome them, the master said
(paraphrase). He also said we must translate that which hath been
written into reality and action. So if we know this we then must act
like it and give praise for the tests, actually intone this praise, and
say, "thank your Baha'u'llah and I love this opportunity you are giving
me." I believe the burn out cannot happen. But if we do not know the
meaning or reality of these tests and are not trained to handle them
spiritually they keep coming and finally can burn us out. We all go thru
this and sooner or later we learn but sometimes at great price. We know
this don't we?, but yet it is very difficult to actuall do it. With me
the burn out was with my accounting jobs and mgmt. positions but finally
I got by it, only to find another obstacle in my path. I do hope you
won't let burn out detract you from teaching for the school system needs
Baha'is in it.
God bless,
doug
Dempsey Morgan
dear friends, you people are believers. you know Baha'u"llah has brought
solutions to all problems. until america chooses the teachings of
Baha'u'llah many things will go wrong. i have been over the
science dept and counselor of international school bangkok with
diplomatic students from all over the world, i have been headmaster of
the lubirii senior secondary in uganda and headmaster of kabuli muslim
secondary school in uganda, built a school in tchad and bought land for
a school in Zaire. in these schools these students want to learn, they
walked ten and twenty miles everyday in the rain to get to school.
american students in Bangkok would tell me education is not worth it. i
wrote many letters of recommendation to harvard and m.i.t and ivy league
schools for foreign students. our country is very materialistic. when i
was in school i went to add quality to my life, to know about things. it
seems to me now in the states people go to school to make more money.
here money seems to be the motive. morgan,dfc.
.
Tom Nystel
dmcadam
Dear friends-
Has anyone noticed the countenance of joy on the faces of the martyrs in
the Dawn Breakers?
warmly,
doug
>This is a very good question, and ranks with the question - Why don't I
John Haukness
John Haukness
immensly to my tought on why my prayer and meditation seem so common to me.
But I do get those tears of joy and sensations, just usually not when I'm
saying my obligatory prayer. Vahid mentioned the Fast, and yes, during the
Fast i feel a little more sensation. But maybe it's not about sensation,
that could well be and I may be looking too much at sensation, if I were
just to look at my relationship with God, I feel lucky because God is all
around, all the time in my life, maybe that's better than ecstacy and being
the most happy person on earth. I will never win the competition for
happiest person on earth, that's for sure. But I'm far from the saddest too.
-----Original Message-----
From: Romane <tak...@powerup.com.au>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
To: bahai...@bcca.org <bahai...@bcca.org>
Subject: Re: communion
>"John Haukness" <hauk...@prodigy.net> wrote in message