Betty Reid and "economic calamity"
Kent Johnson
Dan said:
>Can anyone confirm this or suggest where she might have heard it?<
I have a collection of Pilgrim's Notes about the Calamity. Obviously I
should not be circulating them since the Universal House of Justice
reference department, which was asked about them, calls them "so obviously
unreliable". But if you want a copy Emailed I will try to dig them out.
--Kent
Simon Mawhinney
> I have a collection of Pilgrim's Notes about the Calamity. Obviously I
> should not be circulating them since the Universal House of Justice
> reference department, which was asked about them, calls them "so obviously
> unreliable". But if you want a copy Emailed I will try to dig them out.
I wish people would stop talking about the calamity. I for one do not
believe that there is necessarily going to be a "calamity" - the
calamity happens every day all over the world. Perhaps non-Baha'is
would interpret these suggestions of calamity as the symptom of a cult?
Simon
Zutetflute
>believe that there is necessarily going to be a "calamity" - the
>calamity happens every day all over the world. Perhaps non-Baha'is
>would interpret these suggestions of calamity as the symptom of a cult?
>
>Simon
>
>
If it is a symptom of a cult, than the Christians and Muslims suffer from it
too, since Armageddon and the Day of Judgment are promised in both
religions.
The following two quotes of Baha'u'llah, found in a letter of Shoghi Effendi
dated March 11, 1936 (World Order of Baha'u'lla, p. 141), show that we
should
not disbelieve in a calamity just because it hasn't happend yet:
" Ominous indeed is the voice of Bahá'u'lláh that rings through these
prophetic
words: "O ye peoples of the world! Know, verily, that an
unforeseen calamity followeth you, and grievous retribution awaiteth you.
Think
not that which ye have committed hath been effaced in My sight." ] And
again:
"We have a fixed time for you, O peoples. If ye fail, at the appointed hour,
to
turn towards God, He, verily, will lay violent hold on you, and will cause
grievous afflictions to assail you
from every direction. How severe, indeed, is the chastisement with which
your
Lord will then chastise you!] "
"Soon," Bahá'u'lláh's own words proclaim it, "will the present day Order be
rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy
Lord speaketh the truth and is the Knower of things unseen." "By Myself," He
solemnly asserts, "the day is approaching when We will have rolled up the
world
and all that is therein, and spread out a new Order in its stead. He,
verily,
is powerful over all things." "The world's equilibrium," He explains, "hath
been upset through the vibrating influence of this Most Great, this new
World
Order. Mankind's ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of
this unique, this wondrous System, the like of which mortal eyes have never
witnessed." "The signs of impending convulsions and chaos," He warns the
peoples
of the world, "can now be discerned, inasmuch as the prevailing Order
appeareth
to be lamentably defective."
God has promised us a retributive calamity. We can pretend it won't happen,
but that won't prevent it from happening.
I believe that Abdul Baha said that an economic collapse is one of the
warning
signs of the calamity, not the calamity itself.
Andree
Scott P. Duncan
"calamity" -
> the
> calamity happens every day all over the world. Perhaps non-Baha'is
> would interpret these suggestions of calamity as the symptom of a cult?
As the year 2000 approaches and more and more predictions of thecollapse of
computerized systems around the globe appear, I begin
to wonder if "the calamity" might just be related to the impact of the
failure of electronic systems globally? When so much trust and faith
is put into these systems and their operation, massive failures might
be the kind of disorientation that would push many people, organizations,
even nations, "over the edge."
It is true that, daily, many millions of people face conditions that are
"calamitous"; however, large portions of the industrialized world, like
the USA, have not been touched by such things for a long time. Since
no one (industrialized or semi-industrialized) nation could avoid being
impacted by the failure of the economy of other such nations, it would
do no good for just one (or a few) nations to have addressed the possi-
bility of such electronic collapse.
Of course, the Year 2000 problems may be all overblown, but the
scenario of such an event being what shakes people up and forces them
to realize how interconnected they are (at least at the economic/political
level which is what the Lesser Peace is all about) rather than some war,
asteroid collision, etc. is an interesting possibility since it does not
result in mass destruction, in and of itself, of peoples, resources, etc.
It would really be more of a mental test/calamity than a physical one.
rlit...@my-dejanews.com
Whether or not there will be a calamity, or what form that calamity will
take
may well be a fairly useless way to spend our time. I too have read pilgrims
notes (reportedly those of Hand of the Cause of God William Sears and his
beloved wife, Marguerite) about this "calamity", and I have read published
letters from the Guardian ("America In Time Of Peril", Citadel of Faith) in
which he speaks of America being brought to her knees. This can be quite
depressing to an American.
However, we can better spend our time, in my opinion, developing the
spiritual resources, the love and unity, which alone will assist this
country
to "lead the world spiritually", which the Guardian also predicted later on
in that same above mentioned letter.
With love,
Robert A. Little
In article <"Xl5-xD.A.NRD.oyUo1"@bounty.bcca.org>,
Simon Mawhinney <simon.m...@hertford.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > I have a collection of Pilgrim's Notes about the Calamity. Obviously I
> > should not be circulating them since the Universal House of Justice
> > reference department, which was asked about them, calls them "so
obviously
> > unreliable". But if you want a copy Emailed I will try to dig them out.
>
> I wish people would stop talking about the calamity. I for one do not
> believe that there is necessarily going to be a "calamity" - the
> calamity happens every day all over the world. Perhaps non-Baha'is
> would interpret these suggestions of calamity as the symptom of a cult?
>
> Simon
>
>
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Geoffrey M. Pettypiece
I think that Dan is referring to Betty Reed from the U.K. and is, as far as
I know, now living in Northern Ireland. I have met with former member of the
Continental Board of Counsellors for Europe Ms Reed on several occasions,
sometimes personally and most often during consultative sessions or
conferences. She was, and is still, a remarkable and loving Baha'i with an
unusual capacity for remembering quotations from the Writings, or letters
from the Guardian or the Universal House of Justice. Betty Reed was our
'Refer'!
Ms Reed would never make a comment openly which she could not support fully
from authentic texts. From time to time, the friends would ask her opinions
on various matters, even sometimes about the calamatous events alluded to in
the Writings, and on those occasions, she emphasized that she would be
stating her personal view and that no one should attach any authority to
it - that her views were no better than anyone else's. In fact, she often
pointed out to any of the believers that may have been recording her talk,
to please stop the recording during her explanation. This she did to avoid
this sort of 'calamity' discussion amongst the Baha'is. Ms Reed (but we in
Europe just call her Betty) would never be a soul to encourage such
discussions. So if Betty at any time stated that Abdu'l-Baha had mentioned
to a journalist that the calamity would be economic in nature, she would
have most certainly prefixed her statement with an authoritative quote or a
stern warning that it could be regarded in no other light than as a
pilgrim's note.
I'm sorry about going on a bit, but after having read some of this thread, I
just wanted to prevent anyone thinking for a moment that Betty Reed would
intentionally promote discussion about 'the calamity'.
Greetings,
G. Pettypiece
D. Povey wrote in message <"weviPD.A.PIH.2e5n1"@bounty.bcca.org>...
|
|Hi all,
| I heard a few nights ago something that a lady called Betty Reid
|used to say. Betty Reid was apparently quite a well-known Baha'i in the
|'80s, I get the impression she has passed away. Apparently in her talks
|she used to quote Abdu'l-Baha as saying, to a journalist, that "the
|calamity" would be economic in nature. Obviously He wouldn't have put it
|that way; that is simply how it was explained to me.
|
| Can anyone confirm this or suggest where she might have heard it?
|
|Dan Povey
Bobcharnes
calamity
in his letter "American Baha'is in the Time of World Peril," especially the
section "America Passing Through Crisis." This was written in 1954. On page
125
of the paperback edition, Shoghi Effendi writes,
"Indeed a foretaste of the devastation which this consuming fire will
wreak upon the world, and with which it will lay waste the cities of the
nations participating in this tragic world-engulfing contest, has been
afforded
by the last World War, marking the second stage in the global havoc which
humanity, forgetful of its God, and heedless of the clear warnings uttered
by
His appointed Messenger for this day, must, alas inevitably experience."
Shoghi Effendi says that Baha'u'llah regards the crass, cancerous,
pernicious, and all-pervasive materialism, as the chief factor in
precipitating
the dire ordeals and world-shaking crises.
Please read the letter and tell me what you think.
Bob Charnes
Bobcharnes
and read it in the book, or who don't have the book Citadel of Faith):
(speaking about the elements of a darkened political horizon) ". . .
--these have, moreover, contributed their share, in recent years, to the
deterioration of a situation which, if not remedied, is bound to involve the
American nation in a catastrophe of undreamed-of dimensions and of untold
consequences to the social structure, the standard and conception of the
American people and government."
Shoghi writes that these woes and tribulations are partly avoidable,
but
mostly inevitable and God-sent, and serve as a purging for the American
nation,
and a preparation to play a preponderating role in the hoisting of the
standard
of the Lesser Peace.
He concludes, "These same fiery tribulations will not only firmly weld
the
American nation to its sister nations in both hemispheres but will through
their cleansing effect, purge it thoroughly of the accumulated dross which
ingrained racial prejudice, rampant materialism, widespread ungodliness and
moral laxity have combined, in the course of successive generations, to
produce, and which have prevented her thus far from assuming the role of
world
spiritual leadership forecast by 'Abdu'l-Baha's unerring pen--a role which
she
is bound to fulfill through travail and sorrow."
Of course, the timing of the Lesser Peace is another thread altogether,
but from the messages of the Universal Justice, it seems we have our work
"cut
out" for us!
In Baha'i spirit,
Bob Charnes
D. Povey
Since we seem to be discussing this issue, I'll tell you my view on the
calamity. I do believe that it is going to be a very obvious event, even
to us in the developed world. The reason is as follows: it is linked in
the Writings, and especially in the letters of the Guardian, with the
unification of mankind, and the triumph of the cause. How could a
spiritual calamity bring about such an event? What does the term
"spiritual calamity" even mean? If a spiritual calamity is the blindness
of mankind and its inability to perceive the truth, how can such blindness
lead to vision? It doesn't make sense. As for the possibility that it
might be "un-obvious" -- at least to us in the West -- I reject that
possibility for this reason... at almost all times in history, some section
of mankind has been subjected to calamitous events... war, drought,
disease... and in more recent history the variety of these calamities has
been increasing. To say that a terrible calamity will suddenly afflict
mankind, and then interpret it as only afflicting parts of mankind, is to
make a non-statement. These things have always been happening. Phrases
like "the burning of cities" and "will cause the limbs of mankind to
quake"... are they really compatible with the "calamity as a non-event"?
Thanks again for your replies.
Dan Povey
------
Dan Povey ** email dp1...@hermes.cam.ac.uk **
(01223) 516592 ** svr-www.eng.cam.ac.uk/~dp10006/ **
Peterhouse, Trumpington St, Cambridge CB21RD