Re: The Concourse on High
Sizwe Cawe
Many thanks for your reply. It does seem that we will
have to rely on our own wits to understand the real
meaning of the term, 'Concourse on High'. There must
be infinite wisdom in that. Nevertheless, how I wish
..
>From your response, I gather that you understand the
term, 'circling round the throne of God' to be
synonymous with doing 'God's bidding'?
Another term whose usage in the Faith that I find
interesting is 'Lord of Hosts'. The Old Testament
identifies the Lord of Hosts with God.
Kindest regards
Sizwe.
--- Suzanne Gerstner <sb.ge...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > One frequently encounters the following terms in
> the
> > Baha'i literature:
> > 1. Concourse on High
> > 2. Supreme Concourse
> > 3. Concourse above
> > 4. Company on High
> > 5. Highest Concourse
> > 6. Celestial Concourse.
> >
> > I have been unable to find authoritative
> definitions
> > of these terms.
>
> Dear Sizwe,
>
> I started answering your question before I read to
> the bottom of your
> posting. Everything I wrote is in agreement with
> what you wrote further on,
> and I even cited the same quote you did! I'll share
> with you below what I
> wrote:
>
> I don't know an authoritative definition either, but
> in the first volume of
> the Revelation of Baha'u'llah by Adib Taherzadeh,
> the Concourse on High is
> defined as "The gathering of the holy souls in the
> next world." Page 81.
>
> Are they, perhaps, Middle Eastern
> > terms in common parlance and therefore not in need
> of
> > definition?
>
> When I try to discern the meaning of a word in the
> Writings, I tend to look
> at a great number of instances of the word and see
> how it's used. The souls
> in the Concourse on High are circling around the
> throne of God and rushing
> to the assistance of anyone who's teaching the Faith
> of God. And souls can
> attain this station at death, as it says in this
> passage:
>
> "How often hath a sinner attained, at the hour of
> death, to the essence of
> faith, and, quaffing the immortal draught, hath
> taken his flight unto the
> Concourse on high! And how often hath a devout
> believer, at the hour of his
> soul's ascension, been so changed as to fall into
> the nethermost fire!"
> (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of
> Baha'u'llah, p. 265)
>
> >Do they mean the same thing?
>
> Yes, I think they are different terms for the same
> reality.
>
> > Is this the case or is the Concourse on High
> exclusive
> > to Holy Souls also known as Manifestations or does
> it
> > exclude Them? The passage below suggests that
> > Manifestations are part of the Concourse on High:
>
> My understanding is that this is an inclusive term
> about the "hosts" of the
> souls in the next world who are doing the bidding of
> God. This would
> include the Prophets and Messengers as well as all
> the other holy souls.
>
> > Would this Concourse on High be in any way related
> to
> > the Christian 'heavenly host'?
>
> Yes, and Baha'u'llah is "the Lord of Hosts." "By
> God, verily the Lord of
> Hosts is your support, the angels of heaven your
> assistance, the Holy Spirit
> your companion and the Center of the Covenant your
> helper..."
> (Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha
> Section, p. 362)
>
> But "heavenly hosts" can also be us if we circle
> around the will of God and
> do His bidding:
>
> "Supplicate God that ye may become heavenly hosts,
> spreading the oneness of
> the world of humanity, taking in hand the armor of
> peace and conquering the
> hearts with the sword of love."
> (Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v3, p. 548)
>
> > In Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha vol 3 pp 611 the
> Concourse
> > on High is equated with the spiritual world whilst
> the
> > material world is said to be the lower concourse.
> This
> > adds to the fascination.
>
> Yes, it's interesting. I wonder if we can be
> members of the Concourse on
> High while still in this world. We know that heaven
> and hell are states of
> being near and far from God and that they are in
> this world as well as the
> others. We know we can also be "the angels" and
> "heavenly hosts" while in
> this world:
>
> "Ye are the angels, if your feet be firm, your
> spirits rejoiced, your secret
> thoughts pure, your eyes consoled, your ears opened,
> your breasts dilated
> with joy, and your souls gladdened, and if you arise
> to assist the Covenant,
> to resist dissension and to be attracted to the
> Effulgence!
> (Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha
> Section, p. 359)
>
> But "Concourse on High" really does seem, from all
> the quotes I've read, to
> mean the people in the next world who are supporting
> us when we are actively
> engaged in teaching the Faith.
>
> >
> > Many thanks in advance to those who will enlighten
> me.
>
> I don't know if I've said anything enlightening.
> I'm just sharing my own
> understanding gleaned from the Writings.
>
> Kindest regards,
>
> Suzanne
>
>
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Sizwe Cawe wrote:
> Dear Suzanne
>
> Many thanks for your reply. It does seem that we will
> have to rely on our own wits to understand the real
> meaning of the term, 'Concourse on High'. There must
> be infinite wisdom in that. Nevertheless, how I wish
> ..
>
> >From your response, I gather that you understand the
> term, 'circling round the throne of God' to be
> synonymous with doing 'God's bidding'?
>
> Another term whose usage in the Faith that I find
> interesting is 'Lord of Hosts'. The Old Testament
> identifies the Lord of Hosts with God.
I read this post and saw both the "circling around the throne of God"
and "the Lord of Hosts". This immediately brought to mind a page from
the book "The Summons of the Lord of Hosts", specifically the
Suriy-i-Haykal:
13 - "We, verily, have ordained in this Temple to be the source of all
existence in the new creation, that all may know of a certainty My
power to accomplish that which I have purposed through My word "Be",
and it is! Beneath the shadow of every letter of this Temple We shall
raise up a people whose number none can reckon save God, the Help in
Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Erelong shall God bring forth from His
Temple such souls as will remain unswayed by the insinuations of the
rebellious, and who will quaff at all times of the cup that is life
indeed! These, truly, are of the blissful.
These are the servants who abide beneath the shelter of the tender
mercy of their Lord, and who remain undeterred by those who seek to
obstruct their path. Upon their faces may be seen the brightest of the
light of the All-Merciful, and from their hearts may be heard the
remembrance of Mine all-glorious and inaccessible Name...
These are they who circle round the Cause of God even as the shadow
doth revolve around the sun. Open, then, your eyes, O people of the
Bayan, that haply ye may behold them...
These souls are the protectors of the Cause of God on earth, who shall
preserve its beauty from the obscuring dust of idle fancies and vain
imaginings. In the path of their Lord they shall not fear for their
lives; rather will they sacrifice their all in their eagerness to
behold the face of their Well-Beloved...
Quaff the water of life in My name, the All-Merciful, and proffer unto
the near ones a mongst the inmates of this lofty station that which
shall cause them to become detached from all names and enter beneath
this blessed and all-encompassing shadow."
And so on and so forth, the entire Surih seems to speak of what you
mentioned.
I apologize if I'm repeating quotes already mentioned, but I thought
that since a True Seeker like yourself would appreciate all material
relating to his search, you might find this mention useful.
With Love,
Ramin Marghi
Suzanne Gerstner
>From your response, I gather that you understand the
> term, 'circling round the throne of God' to be
> synonymous with doing 'God's bidding'?
Dear Sizwe,
I would say being so intoxicated with the love of God that they forget all
other things, and focus all their energies on doing His bidding.
> Another term whose usage in the Faith that I find
> interesting is 'Lord of Hosts'. The Old Testament
> identifies the Lord of Hosts with God.
I did a search on this term in the Baha'i Writings and found this
interesting passage which seems to shed some light on our conversation:
"The blessed Person of the Promised One is interpreted in the Holy Book as
the Lord of Hosts, i.e., the heavenly armies. By heavenly armies those
souls are intended who are entirely freed from the human world, transformed
into celestial spirits and have become divine angels. Such souls are the
rays of the Sun of Reality who will illumine all the continents. Each one is
holding in his hand a trumpet, blowing the breath of life over all the
regions. They are delivered from human qualities and the defects of the
world of nature, are characterized with the characteristics of God, and are
attracted with the fragrances of the Merciful. Like unto the apostles of
Christ, who were filled with Him, these souls also have become filled with
His Holiness Bahá'u'lláh, i.e., the love of Bahá'u'lláh has so mastered
every organ, part and limb of their bodies, as to leave no effect by the
promptings of the human world.
These souls are the armies of God and the conquerors of the East and the
West. Should one of them turn his face toward some direction and summon the
people to the Kingdom of God, all the ideal forces and lordly confirmations
will rush to his support and reinforcement. He will behold all the doors
open and all the strong fortifications and impregnable castles razed to the
ground. Singly and alone he will attack the armies of the world, defeat the
right and left wings of the hosts of all the countries, break through the
lines of the legions of all the nations and carry his attack to the very
center of the powers of the earth. This is the meaning of the Hosts of God.
Any soul from among the believers of Bahá'u'lláh who attains to this
station, will become known as the Apostle of Bahá'u'lláh. Therefore strive
ye with heart and soul -- so that ye may reach this lofty and exalted
position, be established on the throne of everlasting glory, and crown your
heads with the shining diadem of the Kingdom, whose brilliant jewels may
irradiate upon centuries and cycles.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 423)
Of course, every passage you read like the above brings as many questions as
it does answers. What sort of "armies of the world" would the
above-mentioned angelic soul "attack"? Obviously not physical ones. In
this sense, what does attacking mean?
Kind regards,
Suzanne
Monder M Zbaeda
Maybe I should research before I post!
For those interested the term is 'al-Mala' il-A'la'. I am now puzzled,
as to how the word concourse is used for Mala' since I believe the
latter is used for 'public/people' in most contexts and to my knowledge
a concourse is a passage through which people walk or a 'coming'
together of people.
Any thoughts?
M M Zbaeda
Monder M Zbaeda
Many thanks for bringing this topic to our (espesially my) attention. I
though wonder, what is the original phrase used in Arabic or Persian
for the 'Concourse on High'?
I haven't been able to obtain much material in Arabic or Persian. If
anyone can guide me to a specific passage where this is used in the
original language I would be very thankful.
Best Regards,
M M Zbaeda