Flexibility on Bahai laws. Is low alcohol wine allowed?
nikjoo...@yahoo.com
on a bored moment. I just thought Id post this.
I was offered fruit wine by some orthodox monastry residents. It
tasted like fruit juice.
Can 2% or 1% perry be considered alcoholic?
(Bahai man whom I caught drinking a can of beer informed me it was 2%
low alcohol beer only)
Suzanne
Hi,
I know there are some relaxed Baha'is out there, but I haven't
actually read anything that said that 1% or 2% alcohol was okay from
the standpoint of Baha'i law. In fact, the passages I've seen in
Lights of Guidance are pretty emphatic that we aren't supposed to
drink anything with even the tiniest bit of alcohol in it, even if
it's burned off:
"Under no circumstances should Baha'is drink. It is so
unambiguously forbidden in the Tablets of Baha'u'llah that there is no
excuse for them even touching it in the form of a toast, or in a
burning plum pudding; in fact, in any way."
(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an
individual
believer, March 3, 1957: Cited in a letter from the
Universal House
of Justice to the National Spiritual Assembly of Ecuador,
December 21, 1972; Lights of Guidance, Page: 351)
"With reference to your question whether those foods which have been
flavoured with alcoholic liquors such as brandy, rum, etc., should be
classified under the same category as the intoxicating drinks, and
consequently be avoided by believers, the Guardian wishes all the
friends to know that such foods, or beverages, are strictly
prohibited."
(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an
individual
believer, January 9, 1939; Lights of Guidance, Page: 351)
Best wishes,
Suzanne
..
Suzanne
> on a bored moment. I just thought Id post this.
By the way, welcome to SRB. I hope you'll stick around and write more
here. It would be nice to get more discussions going.
Best wishes,
Suzanne
Larry Gusaas
> On Apr 3, 11:14 am, nikjoorob...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> on a bored moment. I just thought Id post this.
>> I was offered fruit wine by some orthodox monastry residents. It
>> tasted like fruit juice.
>> Can 2% or 1% perry be considered alcoholic?
>> (Bahai man whom I caught drinking a can of beer informed me it was 2%
>> low alcohol beer only)
>>
> Hi,
>
> I know there are some relaxed Baha'is out there, but I haven't
> actually read anything that said that 1% or 2% alcohol was okay from
> the standpoint of Baha'i law.
>
The Bahá'í World Centre
Department of the Secretariat
To: The National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Canada
10 June 1999
Message:
1
The Universal House of Justice has received your email of 13 May 1999 in
which you seek its guidance on behalf of a believer on the use of
de-alcoholized and low-alcohol drinks by Bahá'ís, and we are to
provide
the following response.
2
With regard to the use of alcohol-free lagers, beers, champagne and
wines, there is a border area between that which is permissible and that
which is prohibited where exact definition would lead to hair-splitting
and infinite complications. The believers should be familiar with the
principle given in Bahá'í law and should, at this time, be left
free to
make their own determination in borderline cases. No issue should be
made of the matter in such cases.
3
If, however, the consumption of such beverages is occurring in social
situations where both Bahá'ís and non-Bahá'ís are pre
sent, and is such
that non-believers could come to the mistaken conclusion that Bahá'Ã
s
are consuming alcohol and openly flouting Bahá'í law, the matte
r should
be taken by any believer concerned about it to his or her Local or
National Spiritual Assembly, either of which is in a position to provide
guidance on this matter.
Department of the Secretariat
(The Universal House of Justice, 1999 Jun 10, Dealcoholized Beverage
s)
--
Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind thei
rs." - Edgard Varese
Suzanne
Thanks for sharing that message from the Universal House of Justice.
I hadn't seen it before.
By the way, I went onto your website and I love your paintings.
I hope you'll continue writing here.
All best wishes,
Suzanne
Jeffrey
I have an idea! Decide for YOURSELF whether or not it is OK to drink
2% wine. ALSO, don't catch Baha'is drinking. It is not necessary for
your own spiritual growth for you to police how well others are
obeying Baha'i law. These attitudes that run rampant in the
heterodox organization are very very sick.
Spirituality is about having a relationship with God, and whether you
live up to the ideals of the Faith is between you and God, and it is
really none of the business of the dreaded "Administration".
Just say KNOW!
Jeffrey
drgoplayer
In general the administrative bodies are not interested in peoples'
private activities except where they endanger the believers or the
reputation of the community.
The Baha'i laws on most personal behavior are actually pretty clear.
2% alcohol is still booze even tho some cultures don't seem to think
so. I remember some Russian friends offering me wine and when I
said that Baha'is do not drink they assured me that it was not liquor.
Anything less that about 60 proof was not alcoholic to them. :-)
So what endangers the community and its reputation?
If you (generic you - anybody) are trying to overthrow your government
and perhaps using Baha'i scriptures to justify it, that would endanger
the other Baha'is even if they were not aware of your activities. If
anyone found out it should be reported to the institutions and action
taken. If you are dealing drugs, shacking up, or running a protection
racket and the Local Spiritual Assembly knew about it - and took no
action, that would damage the reputation of the community as it would
indicate that we didn't really believe in our teachings.
So we need to understand our writings and think about what they mean.
When we are not following them (the Word of God for this time) then
we need to think about how our actions effect our own spiritual
development and how we are effecting the Baha'i community as a
whole.
Generally Local Spiritual Assemblies will prefer not to get involved
in the believers' private activities (that was the case with the many
assemblies that I served on) but sometimes they will have a duty to
go down that unpleasant path.
Cheers,
Tom
Suzanne
Yes, most Baha'is would prefer to look on other people with "a sin
covering eye." In other words, not look on their shortcomings and how
they might break the laws, but try to root out their own shortcomings
instead.
Suzanne
hit send instead of discard.
Tom wrote:
> In general the administrative bodies are not interested in peoples'
> private activities except where they endanger the believers or the
> reputation of the community.
This is very true. I've spent a quarter of a century serving on three
different Assemblies, and individual lives were never the subject of
our meetings except on one occasion and that was because a Baha'i was
continually flaunting the law and it was discrediting the Faith in the
eyes of others. But the Assembly took great pains to lovingly counsel
this person and try to help them to understand the reason for the laws
and why it was important to at least strive to obey them.
As Baha'is we are on a spiritual journey of growing closer to God;
both individually and collectively; and the laws which have been
revealed by Baha'u'llah are, we believe, our guide for gaining maximum
spiritual growth in this journey. Baha'u'llah says to follow the laws
out of love, not out of mere duty:
"Observe My commandments, for the love of My beauty."
(Baha'u'llah: The Kitab-i-Aqdas, Page: 20)
He says that the secret of the journey is strict observance of these
laws:
"In all these journeys the traveler must stray not the breadth of a
hair from the "Law," for this is indeed the secret of the "Path" and
the fruit of the Tree of "Truth"; and in all these stages he must
cling to the robe of obedience to the commandments, and hold fast to
the cord of shunning all forbidden things, that he may be nourished
from the cup of the Law and informed of the mysteries of Truth."
(Baha'u'llah: Seven Valleys and Four Valleys, Pages: 39-40)
Although institutions have an obligation to safeguard the interests of
the Faith, I would agree with Jeffrey that as individuals we should
overlook the failings of other Baha'is. 'Abdu'l-Baha said that we
should look on everyone with "sin covering eyes", only seeing the best
in them and not dwelling on their shortcomings. Our standards should
be the example of 'Abdu'l-Baha and the actual teachings, and not other
Baha'is.
Best wishes,
Suzanne
refugeed...@yahoo.co.in
there is even an AA chapter for Bahais.
On 4 апр, 23:52, Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com> wrote:
> judging by his post i would guess that Jeffrey drinks heavily.
Suzanne
<refugeedevelo...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> I know Iranian Bahais often drink. I was told in the united states
> there is even an AA chapter for Bahais.
Baha'u'llah taught us that we should all investigate the truth for
ourselves, and not blindly believe gossip and rumours. I know many
Iranian Baha'is and none of them drink alcohol. There is no AA
chapter just for Baha'is. Just google it and you'll find that it does
not exist. I know that in Iran there are many unfounded negative
rumours about Baha'is which have been spread by Muslim clergy in order
to discredit Baha'is, and this sounds like that sort of thing.
Best wishes,
Suzanne
mike3
> Thanks, Tom, for your informative posting.
>
> Yes, most Baha'is would prefer to look on other people with "a sin
> covering eye." In other words, not look on their shortcomings and how
> they might break the laws, but try to root out their own shortcomings
> instead.
>
But what about the part of the original poster's post where he was
discussing
whether or not it was acceptable to drink the wine _himself_? That
objection
does not apply there.
Suzanne
HI Mike,
If you look back to the beginning of the thread, my answer and another
answer by Larry citing a letter from the Universal House of Justice on
the subject, were in reply to that question.
Basically Baha'is aren't supposed to drink alcohol, and a little bit
of alcohol is still alcohol, but if the alcohol has been removed, then
it's up to the individual believer to decide for themselves if they
want to drink it. But in any case, the law shouldn't be flaunted;
especially in public where it gives the impression that Baha'is don't
care about their laws.
Best wishes,
Suzanne