Marlboro/KKK connection? (was: Philip Morris companies)
maf...@csri.toronto.edu.uucp
I've always boycotted Marlboro but for the following reason:
A very long time ago, when I started to smoke (i.e., long
before I quit), I was told that the red geometric shape that
covers the top of a pack is actually a K -- indeed it looks
like it -- and that it signals affiliation of the Marlboro
company with the KKK. Is this just a legend?
---
Frederic Maffray, Toronto, Ontario.
tim...@lentil.berkeley.edu
|he...@garp.mit.edu (Henry Mensch) writes:
|>maf...@csri.toronto.edu (Frederic Maffray) wrote:
|>->... I was told that the red geometric shape that
|>->covers the top of a pack is actually a K -- indeed it looks
|>->like it -- and that it signals affiliation of the Marlboro
|>->company with the KKK. Is this just a legend?
|>
|>do you play your records backwards too? do you stare at your
|>scotch-on-the-rocks until you find the letters "sex"?
|>
|>hey! the word "chicken" has the letter "k" in it ... does that mean
|>that kentucky (two k's!) fried chicken is kkk-affiliated?
|
|What an irrational reply.
|
|Thousands of Western companies trade with South Africa,
|which is a KKK dream come true. They don't hide it.
Fewer now since political pressure has been applied to them
over that subject. Most of these companies did business there
because it was profitable, not because they liked what was
going on in South Africa. When political pressure made it
unprofitable (due to boycotts, bad publicity, etc.) to do business
there, they stopped.
| Krupp
|and I.G. Farben were openly pro-Nazi. Coors is well-known
|for being very reactionary. David Duke is from the KKK.
And they get regularly flamed by activists for it.
|What would be so extroardinary with one tobacco company
|located in the Deep South being affiliated with the KKK?
Flaunting it with "secret" symbols isn't something any company
would do. Even if Philip Morris (Marlboro company) did have such
a KKK connection, the 'K' would have nothing to do with it, since
the KKK is unpopular enough to make them want to hide the connection
without giving _any_ hints in "secret" symbols.
|After all, this discussion stems from the fact that another
|tobacco company (Philip Morris) funds a deeply homophobic
|politician.
Got any more documentation on the Philip Morris / KKK connection
other than the "secret" symbols on the Marlboro packs? The
Philip Morris / Helms connection is well documented.
|>this sounds like legend similar to the sort that has proctor and
|>gamble related to the unification church (uh, 'moonies') because their
|>corporate trademark was a moon.
|
|Possibly, but that is not a rational argument. Just because
|something sounds like a legend does not mean that it is one.
Without any more substantiation, it isn't very believable.
Henry Mensch
necessary here.)
maf...@csri.toronto.edu (Frederic Maffray) writes:
|> he...@garp.mit.edu (Henry Mensch) writes:
|> >maf...@csri.toronto.edu (Frederic Maffray) wrote:
|> >->... I was told that the red geometric shape that
|> >->covers the top of a pack is actually a K -- indeed it looks
|> >->like it -- and that it signals affiliation of the Marlboro
|> >->company with the KKK. Is this just a legend?
|> >
|> >do you play your records backwards too? do you stare at your
|> >scotch-on-the-rocks until you find the letters "sex"?
|> >
|> >hey! the word "chicken" has the letter "k" in it ... does that
mean
|> >that kentucky (two k's!) fried chicken is kkk-affiliated?
|>
|> What an irrational reply.
it's certainly as rational as the message i replied to. after all, kfc
comes from the "deep south" (well, as deep as philip morris does), and
it does have those mysterious hidden "K"'s in it ...
it would seem you're looking for things that aren't there. surely you
can think of better reasons not to smoke ...
|> Thousands of Western companies trade with South Africa,
|> which is a KKK dream come true. They don't hide it.
all the more reason why what you propose is absurd.
--
# Henry Mensch / <he...@garp.mit.edu> / E40-379 MIT,
Cambridge, MA
# <hme...@uk.ac.nsfnet-relay> / <he...@tts.lth.se> /
<men...@munnari.oz.au>
norman miller
>
>I've always boycotted Marlboro but for the following reason:
>A very long time ago, when I started to smoke (i.e., long
>before I quit), I was told that the red geometric shape that
>covers the top of a pack is actually a K -- indeed it looks
>like it -- and that it signals affiliation of the Marlboro
>company with the KKK. Is this just a legend?
Until today I fondly thought that this sort of rock-bottom jackassery
was restricted to the boobs and yahoos of the Farthest Right.
Owen Rowley
>
> North Carolina is not the Deep South; it's a Border state. At
> any rate, the KKK and related organizations have been much more
> popular as well as visibly active in the North, West and
> Northwest than they have in the south for a long time now.
During the seventys The Klan targetted Northern citys with
controversial school bussing plans, and were quite succesfull in
boosting membership rolls.
I also know that the Klan had quite a large following in Canada
as far back as the early part of this century.
When I lived in Tennessee, I learned that Sevierville, was the home
of dolly Partons Family, AND the *blue cap* KKK , which was one of the
more viscious factions of the klan. I lived there off and on during
several parts of the 70's and Klan activity was an open secret.
Every one knew who was *active* and cross burnings were NOT uncommon.
I worked for the "museum of Witchcraft and Magic", and we *knew* that the
manager was about as active as you could get. ( he was very short and
could be easily picked out in a mob .. even with a robe ).
LUX .. owen
"forget about the mau mau, forget about the souix
we were homesteaders back when the glaciers withdrew.
And where our chiefs lay buried, everybody knew.
Yeah.. white folks was wild once too"
Whitman McGowan
John Whitehead
maf...@csri.toronto.edu (Frederic Maffray) writes:
>After all, this discussion stems from the fact that another
>tobacco company (Philip Morris) funds a deeply homophobic
>politician.
Philip Morris gave $20,000 to Jesse Helms.
They also gave $600,000 to fund AIDS research.
John Whitehead Internet: j...@neuro.duke.edu
Department of Neurobiology j...@well.sf.ca.us
Duke University Medical Center Bitnet: white002@dukemc
Durham, North Carolina
Rob Bernardo
In article <1990Aug25.1...@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> maf...@csri.toronto.edu (Frederic Maffray) writes:
[about the possibility that the design on the Marlboro box includes a KKK symbol.]
>After all, this discussion stems from the fact that another
>tobacco company (Philip Morris) funds a deeply homophobic
>politician.
Um, that's not *another* tobacco company - it's the *same* tobacco
company, right? Isn't that why the PM boycott includes a boycott of
Marlboro cigarettes? And as I heard it, PM didn't donate to Helms for
his homophobia - PM donated to all the incumbent senators of the tobacco
states.
--
Rob Bernardo, Mt. Diablo Software Solutions
email: r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US
phone: (415) 827-4301
Tim Eades
>
>and I.G. Farben were openly pro-Nazi. Coors is well-known
>for being very reactionary. David Duke is from the KKK.
>located in the Deep South being affiliated with the KKK?
>tobacco company (Philip Morris) funds a deeply homophobic
>politician.
>
Second, David Duke is in politics not business.
Third, Coors being reactionary, ( I don't believe they are) has nothing to do
with the KKK or the moonies.
Fourth, These thousands of Western companies that trade with South Africa
create jobs for blacks and whites. These jobs help the blacks feed their
family. All the polls show that the South African blacks do not want Western
companies to stop trading with them. Of course this does not matter to our
government or thinkers like you. Lets throw thousands of blacks out of work
and cause a lot of undue hardship, because we know better. Yep sounds good to
me.
--
Tim Eades | NCR - USG Product Marketing and Support
Tim....@Dayton.NCR.COM | Phone:(513)-445-5511 622-5511 (Voice Plus)
..!ncrlnk!usglnk!uspm650!uspm800!eades |
..!uunet!ncrlnk!usglnk!uspm650!uspm800!eades |
tim...@lentil.berkeley.edu
|
|Fourth, These thousands of Western companies that trade with South Africa
|create jobs for blacks and whites. These jobs help the blacks feed their
|family. All the polls show that the South African blacks do not want Western
|companies to stop trading with them. Of course this does not matter to our
|government or thinkers like you. Lets throw thousands of blacks out of work
|and cause a lot of undue hardship, because we know better. Yep sounds good to
|me.
Outcomes of the polls tend to be strongly related to how the question is
phrased. Note that the motivations of public relations (governments)
and profits (businesses) are not likely to cause the appropriate mix
of trade and sanctions that will benefit the people and hurt the government
the most.
Betsy Perry
>In article <1990Aug25.1...@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> maf...@csri.toronto.edu (Frederic Maffray) writes:
>
>>What would be so extroardinary with one tobacco company
>>located in the Deep South being affiliated with the KKK?
>
>any rate, the KKK and related organizations have been much more
>popular as well as visibly active in the North, West and
>Northwest than they have in the south for a long time now.
>
Amen. As I recall, Indiana was basically run by the Klan in the
'20s. When I was in high school there in the '70s, one student,
when asked to do a speech "advocating some controversial
position", spoke at length about the high-minded ideals
of the Ku Klux Klan.
Betsy Perry bet...@apollo.hp.com
Apollo Division, Hewlett-Packard, Inc.
(her opinion doesn't matter, matter, matter, matter...)
Barry Shein
>Fourth, These thousands of Western companies that trade with South Africa
>create jobs for blacks and whites. These jobs help the blacks feed their
>family. All the polls show that the South African blacks do not want Western
>companies to stop trading with them. Of course this does not matter to our
>government or thinkers like you. Lets throw thousands of blacks out of work
>and cause a lot of undue hardship, because we know better. Yep sounds good to
>me.
>--
>Tim Eades | NCR - USG Product Marketing and Support
The original intent of the boycott was certainly to build a fast and
furious head of steam and force RSA to eliminate its apartheid laws,
perhaps forcing RSA to change its way in days or weeks (fear of the
economic damage might have been enough if it started out very strong,
I doubt they would have waited until the country was bankrupt.)
But, it didn't quite happen that way.
I'm sure some blacks have said what you claim, but whether it
represents popular opinion is not obvious at all. I suspect it was
picked up and amplified by those who's interest this story served.
The RSA govt itself has gone to some length to spread such stories.
And the question that remains unanswered is, wouldn't they prefer even
more if the boycott were done whole-heartedly and rid them of
apartheid?
I am quite sure the answer is yes.
So the blame lies with those who have hesitated, quite the opposite of
your characterization. Tolerating apartheid has caused much suffering.
--
-Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | {xylogics,uunet}!world!bzs | b...@world.std.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD
Chris Thomas
its motss connection):
>Amen. As I recall, Indiana was basically run by the Klan in the
>'20s. When I was in high school there in the '70s, one student,
>when asked to do a speech "advocating some controversial
>position", spoke at length about the high-minded ideals
>of the Ku Klux Klan.
Unfortunately, the KKK is still very active in Hoosierland.
Just a couple of years ago, several of their finest would
stand at a busy intersection in Terre-by-gawd-Haute,
pamphleteer, and rave about their correctness. The KKK still
holds a grand annual shindig just up the road in Mansfield,
complete with cross-burning.
Late last year, the Indiana Grand Poobah (or is that Dragon?)
got arrested in New York on some traffic violation and was
dumped in jail. Who came to his defense? None other than the
*sheriff* of Sullivan County, Indiana (just south of Terre
Haute)!
Y'know, they say some things in Indiana never change....
--
Chris Thomas * Acuson, Mountain View, CA * tho...@sono.uucp sun!sono!thomas
Disclaimer: I don't speak for my employer, and they don't speak for me. OK?
Asmodeus
>Kentucky is much less deep than North Carolina.
Geographicaly, perhaps, but certainly not socioculturally.
--
"There are no pushy bottoms -- only pushover 'Tops.'"
tim...@lentil.berkeley.edu
|
|b...@world.std.com (Barry Shein) writes:
|
|+I'm sure some blacks have said what you claim, but whether it
|+represents popular opinion is not obvious at all. I suspect it was
|+picked up and amplified by those who's interest this story served.
|+The RSA govt itself has gone to some length to spread such stories.
|
|The polls I am talking about are, NBC/ Wall Street Journal, ABC, CBS, etc...
|The reason that blacks of SA are fighting (Zulu vs ANC) is partly over they way
|each thinks that apartheid should end. The Zulu are against the boycott and
|the ANC is for it.
You might be interested in a poll taken a few years ago among the street
fighters in the Inkatha (Zulu) vs. UDF (pro-ANC) violence. Most of
these street fighters polled were not very interested or knowledgeable
about the political positions of the groups that the claimed to support;
they allied with a particular group because of some real or imagined
atrocity committed by a member of the other group against their family
or friends.
Of course, at the leadership level (Buthelezi, Mandela, Slovo, etc.)
it's totally different -- namely how big a share each group gets at
the bargaining table.
Asmodeus
>The polls I am talking about are, NBC/ Wall Street Journal, ABC, CBS, etc...
So? You have made no point at all here; there were many blacks
at the end of the War Between the States who fervently believed
that emancipation was bad, and that they were better off owned.
--
"I hate straight people who can't listen to queer anger without saying 'hey,
all straight people aren't like that' as if their egos don't get enough
stroking or protection in this arrogant, heterosexist world. Let them figure
out for themselves whether they deserve to be included in our anger." -- QRT
Tim Eades
+So? You have made no point at all here; there were many blacks
+at the end of the War Between the States who fervently believed
+that emancipation was bad, and that they were better off owned.
Is that right. Have you read all of my post or just this last one.
+--
+"I hate straight people who can't listen to queer anger without saying 'hey,
+ all straight people aren't like that' as if their egos don't get enough
+ stroking or protection in this arrogant, heterosexist world. Let them figure
+ out for themselves whether they deserve to be included in our anger." -- QRT
A
I hate queer butt-nuggets that think all straight people are the same and all
have some hidden hate for queers.
--
Tim Eades | NCR - USG Product Marketing and Support
Asmodeus
>Is that right. Have you read all of my post or just this last one.
All of them, of course. You had nothing to say that hasn't been
trotted out hundreds of times by those whose pocketbooks are more
important than human lives, and none of your cliches mean a damn
thing, now or the millionth time they were spewed.
>I hate queer butt-nuggets that think all straight people are the same and all
>have some hidden hate for queers.
How very sweet of you to tell me. Now I can sleep through the
night, instead of worrying what idiocy you're going to spout next.
Until and unless you learn to think for yourself, instead of
babbling just to hear yourself babble, I can't be bothered.