Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Open Letter to Katherine Kerr

488 views
Skip to first unread message

ryerson.schwark

unread,
May 23, 1989, 3:54:09 PM5/23/89
to

an open letter to
Ms. Katherine Kerr
c/o
Ballantine Books
201 E. 50th St.
New York, NY 10022

and the readers of USENET:

I was excited to see Darkspell, your sequel to Daggerspell which I
had found both interesting and enjoyable. As a FRP gamer, and one time
subscriber to Dragon, I was looking to reading more of your fiction
having enjoyed your previous work on Dragon magazine.

While at first I did enjoy the book, I found as I got deeper and
deeper into it that your book was making a subtle but very clear
statement about the nature of human sexuality. Specifically that
homosexuality is somehow inherently evil and abominable. The message,
intended or not, was quite clear. You painted a hierarchy of good to
evil that was exactly reflected in the sexualities of the characters.
You create a simple three layers: Your heterosexual hero and heroine
Jill and Rhodry, the evil homosexual who is slightly redeemed by his
guilt Sarcyn, and the totally evil homosexual child molester Alastyr.

While I certainly will agree that child molesting is abominable,
you seem to be saying that homosexuality is somehow equated with
child molesting. I and millions of other gay people know that
this is just one more of the myths that oppress us. Another
is the myth that we "recruit". You imply that Sarcyn becomes
homosexual because he is molested by Alastyr. This is just plain
wrong. What makes the portrayal of homosexuality particularly damning
was Sarcyn. I kept hoping you would use him as a counter-point
to Alastyr to demonstrate that Alastyr's evil was not related to
his sexuality, but that his sexuality was merely another outlet for
his evil. Yet in the end you only make him guilty about his
evil/sexuality. As if he need only repent of homosexuality to be
free of the evil.

I'm further bothered by how cheap a ploy it is to play on society's
prejudices to work up outrage at the evil of the villain.
While you are in good company using society's prejudices to make
your villain appear more evil (the black Joe Christmas in William
Faulkner's Light in August for instance), It seems like a poor way
to write a book dedicated to the memory of a man who died fighting
the Nazis.

Perhaps you aren't aware that one of the first peoples to be
hauled off to concentration camps were homosexuals. Tens of
thousands died in places like Dachau. And in many when the
Allies arrived to liberate the camps, the homosexual prisoners
were ordered to remain and serve out their "sentences", as they
were criminals. I hope you will take care to show more sensitivity
in the future and to recognize that while you're telling a story
about another world, you're telling it in this one.

I, and the readers of USENET, a world-wide computer bulletin board
look forward to your response.

Ryerson Schwark
(address deleted from USENET posting)
r...@attunix.att.com

Joshua M. Alden

unread,
May 23, 1989, 8:22:16 PM5/23/89
to
In article <6...@cbnewsl.ATT.COM> r...@cbnewsl.ATT.COM (ryerson.schwark) writes:

[A very well written article regarding the portrayal of homosexuality
in Katherine Kerr's Darkspell.]

Though I have not read Darkspell, and thus cannot comment on the
contents of the book, I would like to say that the sentiment that
Ryerson expressed in his letter is extremely well written, and I admire
him for posting it. I also agree that homosexuality is not inherently
evil, and that homosexuality does not lead to child molestation (there
is factual evidence to back this up, but I don't have it handy at the
moment.) I do not think it good writing to play off of society's fears
for effect when society's fears are groundless and harmful to a large
number of people, in this case homosexuals.

If Mr. Schwark is correct in his opinions regarding Darkspell, then
it is unfortunate that homosexuality should be equated with evil in a
genre which is known for its open-minded authors and readership.


-Josh Alden
Joshua...@dartmouth.edu

Chuq Von Rospach

unread,
May 24, 1989, 12:41:07 AM5/24/89
to
>an open letter to
>Ms. Katherine Kerr

[[I will, as soon as I can, mkae sure Kit sees this, since Ballentine tends
to be a slow forwarder. Any response I get will be posted.... -- chuq ]]

>While at first I did enjoy the book, I found as I got deeper and
>deeper into it that your book was making a subtle but very clear
>statement about the nature of human sexuality. Specifically that
>homosexuality is somehow inherently evil and abominable.

I'm not going to directly comment on this, except to say the following.
Knowing Katherine Kerr through some correspondence and through mutual
friends, I can't believe she would harbor the feelings the author of this is
implying. That doesn't mean she doesn't. That doesn't mean they aren't
tehre. It simply means I find it hard to believe.

Also, having read all three of the Deverry books and discussed them at some
length with her (she's going to be writing an article for me for OtherRealms
later this year) I honestly can't think of what the author is talking about.
I am straight -- although I have a number of gay friends and like to
consider myself enlightened -- so I might be missing something, but if it is
there, it's a very subtle or unconscious orientation, because even after
having it pointed out to me here, I can't find it. Which, again, doesn't
mean it isn't there -- but I do have to wonder if maybe the author of the
open letter is reading more into things than is really there.

Or perhaps I'm just missing it. But I'm definitely not seeing what the
letter writer is seeing, even though I have already finished the sequel to
Darkspell as well.

We'll hasve to see what Kerr says, I think. Although I'd be interested in
hearing feedback from other readers of the series. There's a lot of very
complex philosophical material in the Deverry series, but nothing I can
remember as being even obscurely anti-gay.

Chuq Von Rospach =|= Editor,OtherRealms =|= Member SFWA/ASFA
ch...@apple.com =|= CI$: 73317,635 =|= AppleLink: CHUQ
[This is myself speaking. No company can control my thoughts.]

This is....The Voice....of USENET....in special English. 1300UTC on 11525.

Laurie Mann

unread,
May 24, 1989, 8:10:12 PM5/24/89
to
In article <31...@apple.Apple.COM>, ch...@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
> I'm not going to directly comment on this, except to say the following.
> Knowing Katherine Kerr through some correspondence and through mutual
> friends, I can't believe she would harbor the feelings the author of this is
> implying. That doesn't mean she doesn't. That doesn't mean they aren't
> tehre. It simply means I find it hard to believe.

A few weeks ago, I debated the placement of a writer who recently wrote a
controversial story related to sexually-transmitted diseases on a panel
called "The Future of AIDS." While I don't agree with all of what happens
in the story, it's a very powerful story, and I thought the writer raised
some points that are worthy of further discussion. The fan who debated the
subject with me pretty much said that since the writer had said many
"politically incorrect" things in the story that the writer should NOT be
on the panel. I stressed the point that since the story was a work of
FICTION, not of fact, one shouldn't condemn the writer based on one story.
But since I was only serving as a consultant, and the fan in question was
an actual member of the programming team, I dropped the issue.

Fiction writers DO NOT automatically write in "favor" of what they personally
believe. They may write about an idea or character or plot that intrigues
them. Or they may write about something that they think will sell the
story to the publisher. Having never met or read anything by Katherine
Kerr, I cannot offer an opinion as to what she may feel on the subject of
homosexuality.

/*Life is like a roller coaster, but I'm glad to be tall enough to ride*/
Laurie Mann ** harvard!m2c!jjmhome!lmann ** encore!cloud9!jjmhome!lmann
Work: Stratus Computer I log onto the net from Northboro, MA

John M Allen

unread,
May 24, 1989, 7:57:31 PM5/24/89
to
In article <13...@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> jal...@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Joshua M. Alden) writes:
>In article <6...@cbnewsl.ATT.COM> r...@cbnewsl.ATT.COM (ryerson.schwark) writes:
>
>[A very well written article regarding the portrayal of homosexuality
> in Katherine Kerr's Darkspell.]
[...]

> If Mr. Schwark is correct in his opinions regarding Darkspell, then
>it is unfortunate that homosexuality should be equated with evil in a
>genre which is known for its open-minded authors and readership.

I have read Darkspell and I agree totally with Ry's analysis of the
novel. When I started reading the novel, I thought that maybe she was
just using the homosexuality to give some more depth to the
characters, but as I got into more, I realised that she was indeed
equating homosexuality with child molestation and evil.

I agree that both of the books are very well written. My only
major objection is the one mentioned by Ry. I will probable buy any
subsequent books in the series only because I am a completist.
Unless, the situation changes in subsequent books I plan to encourage
my friends not to buy any of her books. (No, I don't think this is
censorship because I am not stopping her from writing.)

Ry:

Please let us know what (if any) response you get from her.

>Josh Alden

\ | | John Allen
\ \ || al...@mercutio.lcl.cmu.edu
/ \ formerly al...@mercurio.lcl.cmu.edu
jm...@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu

"The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of
respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family
grow up under the same roof." -Richard Bach, _Illusions_

Tim Maroney

unread,
May 26, 1989, 6:52:30 PM5/26/89
to
Thanks to Ryerson Schwark for letting us see this; I assume from the
note at the end that you also sent the letter to Ms. Kerr in care of
her publisher, and so do not need any help in forwarding. The note was
well written and fairly convincing. People do overreact and point out
prejudices where there really are none, but they rarely make their
cases as clearly and calmly as this when they do, and I am strongly
inclined to believe your version.

I would like to hear more details. One thing that struck me was that
there seemed to be not only homophobia but gratuitous Crowley-bashing,
by naming the gay villain "Alastyr". Aleister Crowley was a prominent
homosexual magician of this century.

This Crowley-bashing is becoming more common in fantasy fiction as the
influence of Neo-Pagans grows. For those who don't know, two extremely
similar and historically related religions known as "Thelema"
(Crowley's) and "Neo-Paganism" (Gardner's) have been engaged for a few
decades in a protracted pissing match. Where they should be working
together and stressing their similarities, instead they are constantly
striving for supremacy over the other. I'll refrain from including
each's insulting stereotypes.

Such Neo-Pagan fantasy books as Mercedes Lackey's BURNING WATER portray
"Crowleyites" as absolutely evil. Now it would appear that Kerr is
seeking to join this childishly dogmatic crowd. The apparent
homophobia is also a tip-off; while Thelema has always been pro-gay (it
could hardly be otherwise with Crowley as its founder!) Neo-Paganism
has traditionally been homophobic. Fortunately, many of the leading
Neo-Pagans have realized this fact and set to work against it -- Judy
Harrow and Michael Harismides spring to mind -- but many of these
anti-gay attitudes remain among the rank and file. Homophobia is
almost an automatic consequence of a theology where the universe is
seen as the ecstatic union of the Goddess and the God, as in
Neo-Paganism.

I no longer have any connections with either religion, because such
things as this pissing match have convinced me that they are both
determined to slavishly repeat the errors of Christianity.
Nonetheless, we should all object when fiction is used to cover a
hidden agenda of discrediting one side or the other.
--
Tim Maroney, Consultant, Eclectic Software, sun!hoptoad!tim
"Something was badly amiss with the spiritual life of the planet, thought
Gibreel Farishta. Too many demons inside people claiming to believe in
God." -- Salman Rushdie, THE SATANIC VERSES

Tim Maroney

unread,
Jun 1, 1989, 8:11:12 PM6/1/89
to
In article <25...@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> 193e...@qal.qal.berkeley.edu
(Michael K Ellis) writes:
>I was at Baycon this weekend and Katherine Kerr was also there. Since
>she was there I decided to mention the net.war going on here. I gave
>virtually no details except that there was an open letter posted here
>blasting her for her treatment of homosexual relationships and mentioned
>the resulting war. Here's what she said:
>
>1. Considering the abuse women in general have been taking for several thousand
>years now she doesn't really think that homosexuals deserve special treatment
>in books. Stop beating on the women (literarily speaking) and she'll be
>nicer.

What an incredibly stupid thing to say. "I'll stop depicting blacks as
brain-dead cannibals when other writers treat women better." "I'll stop
depicting Jews as greedy bastards who sacrifice Christian children in
their rituals when women are no longer abused." "I'll stop depicting gays
as child molesters when other writers stop pretending that all women are
as stupid as I am...." What the hell is this supposed to mean?

>2. Everything put in there about Crowley was intentional.

Thanks for the support, but this was obvious. Not only is Kerr a
homophobe, she is a religious bigot. (And from flipping through
DARKSPELL in the store, I have little hesitation in calling her a hack
writer as well.) If anyone thinks I am exaggerrating about the
stupidity of the pissing match between Neo-Pagans and Thelemites, in
the last two days I have received letters from two other people who say
that, like me, they have quit or are quitting paganism and occultism
due to the asinine factionalism.

>3. Despite 1 & 2 she doesn't hate homosexuals. Apparently there was a
>good, normal, beneficial, nice, etc. homosexual relationship slated for
>the first book. Her editor killed it. Apparently her editor doesn't mind
>rotten homosexual relationships.

"I don't feel that *all* homosexuals are child molesters." How very
nice. The fact is that there can be no excuse for perptuating this
kind of damaging stereotype. I sometimes write about unsympathetic
African-Americans and women, but I don't give them the flaws that are
the stuff of popular prejudices.

>4. As to all the controversey here: if you don't like what she writes: tough.

How childish. Reminds me of another popular homophobe, Howard Chaykin,
whose only response to mentions of sexual and racial stereotypes in his
writing is to shout curses interspersed with "So don't read it!" These
white middle-class heterosexuals have no particular concern for the
fact that stereotypes are damaging. Unforgivable.


--
Tim Maroney, Consultant, Eclectic Software, sun!hoptoad!tim

"I slept with Faith, and found a corpse in my arms on awaking; I drank and
danced all night with Doubt, and found her a virgin in the morning."
-- Aleister Crowley, THE BOOK OF LIES

George Madison

unread,
Jun 4, 1989, 1:40:15 PM6/4/89
to
bo...@silver.bacs.indiana.edu (Clay M. Bond) writes:
>
>Americans, particularly SF geeks, will read -- and enjoy -- such
>amazingly bad garbage passed off as writing ...
>

SF geeks as opposed to SF *fans*. On the other hand, perhaps it's a reaction
to the self-appointed Guardians Of Fine Literature who say that there is
NOTHING in the realm of Science Fiction and Fantasy that is deserving of the
term "literature." (This position being obvious bullshit to anyone familiar
with the SF field.)


|George Madison, a/k/a George The Bear Cub, a/k/a Furr ** BEAR POWER **|
|INET: gmad...@pnet02.cts.com 8-{)> ames!elroy!pnet02.cts.com!gmadison|
|GEnie: GEORGE.M Arctophiles & Barbophiles Unite! PLink: BEARDLOVER|

0 new messages