Tone of this newsgroup
Robert White
subject of soc.motss came up. Some of you might be interested
to know that there are quite a few people who are reluctant to
take part in this group on account of its recent content, personal
attacks, etc.
You haven't seen any of the really good personal stories lately,
have you?
If I recall, the charter of this group mentions something about
being a supportive environment.
I'm not going to sit here and pretend to tell you what to do,
decide who is right or wrong, or attempt to manipulate the content.
I merely want to let you know there are people who feel this way
and I include myself among them. In fact, I am reluctant even to post
this for fear of starting another flame war.
Think about it.
--
Robert C. White, Jr. | Read Red Fox, Stand Watie's Civil War Years
The WhiteStar Corporation | in Indian Territory to find out what your
r...@scicom.alphacdc.com | history teacher never told you.
John E. Gefaell
>Just an observation. I was at a party the other night and the
>subject of soc.motss came up. Some of you might be interested
>to know that there are quite a few people who are reluctant to
>take part in this group on account of its recent content, personal
>attacks, etc.
>
I have been dismayed (as I pointed out in my last/first post, with
some of the garbage that passes for conversation here. But it seems
endemic to the net at large. I'm glad you've brought this up though
I think we should be able to care more here.
>You haven't seen any of the really good personal stories lately,
>have you?
>
Shucks, I thought I rated at least okey dokey. . . no?
>If I recall, the charter of this group mentions something about
>being a supportive environment.
Though I've recieved numerous quite supportive letters, and responded
to all of them, I've not heard a thing about my post here in motss.
weep
>
>I'm not going to sit here and pretend to tell you what to do,
>decide who is right or wrong, or attempt to manipulate the content.
>I merely want to let you know there are people who feel this way
>and I include myself among them. In fact, I am reluctant even to post
>this for fear of starting another flame war.
Well, the right thing to do seems to be to take the bull by the horns
and you've done that. I think you maturely and well stated a case that
many of us agree with. Flames, as usual, to /dev/null!
>
>Think about it.
Ric C Helton
message getting a new discussion under-way. That's what I do.
And I think it is working........ I simply kill all threads
that start to get mean or attack the author personally.
__ Ric Helton, R...@cup.portal.com sun!portal!cup.portal.com!RCH
\/ PO Box 2133, Athens, GA 30612-0133 Graffiti BBS 404/546-8256
Ric C Helton
the fact is that we have an open newgroup; anyone can post anything at
any time.... The only alternative is a moderated group, and that brings
into the argument the issues of censorship, subjective "worth" of articles,
favoritism on the part of the moderator, etc..... I don't think motss would
work in that atmosphere.
We will simply have to look at the net as a resource that *we* personally
have to dig through to find treasures. The net will not, and has never,
catered *to* us. If you have an idea to reform the attitudes of some very
mean-spirited or bitchy posters, please voice it. Otherwise, we will just
have to live with it, use the 'kill thread' command, and go on. :-(
Stephen Allen Chappell
>Just an observation. I was at a party the other night and the
>subject of soc.motss came up. Some of you might be interested
>to know that there are quite a few people who are reluctant to
>take part in this group on account of its recent content, personal
>attacks, etc.
>
it comes in waves. We seem to have had a unusually long period of quality
posts and low flamage there for a while, so it seems only natural to me that
we have a big downside reaction to it... just the nature of things.
Perhaps if we really let things degenerate in the next month, we'll have
months and months of great posts to look forward to. Help do *your*
part for the great Soc.motss compost heap! :-) :-) :-)
[] Urso
--
[] Stephen Allen Chappell ("Urso") <cco...@prism.gatech.edu> []
[] Office of Computing Services (the folks that give me money) []
[] College of Architecture (the folks that take it away) []
[] Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, Georgia, 30332 []
$Elaine_May
> cyclical...
then came slinking back a few months later. Since then I've made more
use of the 'j' and "J" key to keep from getting so annoyed. Hang in
there.
Henry Mensch
->Just an observation. I was at a party the other night and the
->subject of soc.motss came up. Some of you might be interested
->to know that there are quite a few people who are reluctant to
->take part in this group on account of its recent content, personal
->attacks, etc.
"if you're not a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."
->You haven't seen any of the really good personal stories lately,
->have you?
yup. many of the personal stories weren't very good; i've seen one or
two recently which were.
->If I recall, the charter of this group mentions something about
->being a supportive environment.
charter? hahahahaha. you make it sound as if a constitution and
bylaws, and committee to regulate behavior, too ("if you don't do as
we tell you, we'll *spank* you!") no such charter exists in a way
that most people care about (although i know that steve dyer can post
the original 'raison d'etre' for this newsgroup, it's not clear that
this is much more than a statement).
->I'm not going to sit here and pretend to tell you what to do,
->decide who is right or wrong, or attempt to manipulate the content.
you already have. now put up or shut up. (saccharine 8-], of
course)
# Henry Mensch / <he...@garp.mit.edu> / E40-379 MIT, Cambridge, MA
# <hme...@uk.ac.nsfnet-relay> / <he...@tts.lth.se> / <men...@munnari.oz.au>
Steve Dyer
>->If I recall, the charter of this group mentions something about
>->being a supportive environment.
>charter? hahahahaha. you make it sound as if a constitution and
>bylaws, and committee to regulate behavior, too ("if you don't do as
>we tell you, we'll *spank* you!") no such charter exists in a way
>that most people care about (although i know that steve dyer can post
>the original 'raison d'etre' for this newsgroup, it's not clear that
>this is much more than a statement).
I looked, and I originally wrote:
...Gay members of USENET will find this a supportive environment for the
discussion of issues which have immediate impact on their everyday lives...
I suppose you could put the emphasis on any one of the words, but
I never intended it to be interpreted as meaning that we had to be nice
(or not) to each other here. The gist was that, unlike other newsgroups
at the time, soc.motss would be a newsgroup where issues of interest to
gay people could be discussed, without the possibility of someone questioning
the relevance or legitimacy of the discussion to the purpose of the newsgroup.
Other than that original article, there is no "charter", and it doesn't have
much more force than the paper it wasn't written on. Either that, or
I've misplaced the parchment.
--
Steve Dyer
dy...@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
dy...@arktouros.mit.edu, dy...@hstbme.mit.edu
Robert White
>I looked, and I originally wrote:
>
> ...Gay members of USENET will find this a supportive environment for the
> discussion of issues which have immediate impact on their everyday lives...
>
> [interpretation deleted]
>
>Other than that original article, there is no "charter", and it doesn't have
>much more force than the paper it wasn't written on. Either that, or
>I've misplaced the parchment.
>
To Steve:
I think it's fairly obvious that there are few constraints on usenet.
That is one of the reasons this group exists, as you point out, to
provide a separate forum for discussion of gay related issues. In an
ideal world, there would be little need for this group. Many people
including useneters are hostile to gays, ergo this group had
to come into existence. It's our refuge.
To everyone:
But it's not an ideal world, and one of the reasons this group is useful
is because the majority of readers have manners. We abide
by a "common law charter" issued by no other authority than
ourselves. I find it useful, and there is hard evidence (muffins
coming out in droves) to demonstrate that others do too.
There is something about an anonymous network that brings out the worst
in some people on the other hand. Is it because you don't ever think
we will meet in person? I wouldn't be so sure!
I think the quality of the atmosphere in which people can post is
indirectly proportional to the number of flame wars here. Lately, things
seem to be pretty good, in fact better than I have seen in years. I am
not sure why.
So this has rambled a bit. Sorry. In summary, I feel like
posting flames to soc.motss is a bit like peeing in the
community pool. Yeah, we'll still use it but it takes a while for
the chlorine to have an effect.
I'll regret the analogy, I'm sure ;-)
Flames >> /dev/dsk/0s0 (that'll keep you busy)
Yours,
Robert White
Bob Culmer
flames are inevitable because of the nature of the group. FYI there
are a couple of local nets that are unmoderated and for motss issues
etc. that do not have these problems. Things range from discussions
on serious issues with variously held opinions to jokes and dish.
It ain't inevitable.
--
Bob Culmer - Dallas | "Hearts will never be practical until
Somewhere over the rainbow | they can be made unbreakable." - Wizard
...in the Land of OZ | "But I still want one." - Tin Man
{uunet,smu}!sulaco!ozdaltx!bob
Richard A. Golding
>There is something about an anonymous network that brings out the worst
>in some people on the other hand. Is it because you don't ever think
>we will meet in person? I wouldn't be so sure!
So true. A couple years ago I roundly flamed somebody in soc.motss;
about a month after the posting I was at a movie with my lover and
guess who should walk in and sit down right next to me... I had never
met this person before, and didn't even know he was in the same part of
the US. That taught me *my* lesson.
-richard
--
-----------
Richard A. Golding, Crucible (work) and UC Santa Cruz CIS Board (grad student)
Internet: gol...@cis.ucsc.edu Work: {uunet|ucscc}!cruc!golding
Post: Baskin Centre for CE & IS, Appl. Sci. Bldg., UC, Santa Cruz CA 95064