Relationships
ljoh...@triton.unm.edu
Well, its saturday night, And I`ve closed the bar again. Here I sit with my
trusty Mac, reaching out across the unknown world of the NET. I can`t count
the times that I`ve talked myself into going to the bar,thinking that this time
will be different. This time I will meet someone who is interested in getting to
know me, and will let me know him. Maybe this is just a pipe dream, a fantasy,
something that only happens in the movies (or Los Angles). Whats happening in
Gay culture? Are Lover relationships still around? Is it everyone out for
himself/herself?
I seldom, if ever, see any postings about gay relationships on Soc.motss, and
I`m curious as to why this is. Whats happening with everyone? Is this a taboo
subject????
Lee
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ `The lunatic, the lover,
and the poet, Are of imagination Lee Johnson
all compact. ljoh...@triton.unm.edu
-Shakespeare- University of New Mexico (USA)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jess Anderson
In article <1991Apr14.0...@ariel.unm.edu>
ljoh...@triton.unm.edu (), whose sendmail.cf doesn't seem
to be doing the right thing or whose /etc/passwd file
doesn't have his personal name, or something like that to
put Lee Johnson inside those parentheses, writes:
>Well, its saturday night, And I`ve closed the bar again.
>Here I sit with my trusty Mac, reaching out across the
>unknown world of the NET.
This points to a phenomenon I don't quite know how to
characterize, but it has something akin with the net as an
extended persona. I've often wondered about reaching out in
this newsgroup. Several times in the past few months,
people have posted what struck me as particularly poignant
personal pleas of one kind or another: illness, loss, broken
hearts, or (as in this case) frustration or loneliness.
>I can`t count the times that I`ve talked myself into going
>to the bar, thinking that this time will be different. This
>time I will meet someone who is interested in getting to
>know me, and will let me know him.
For one thing, I bet this (or something very like it) is a
very common idea behind going to the bars. It's likely, I
think, that at least some portion of the common goals of
socializing with friends, being in gay space, and so forth
include this "this time it will be different" paradigm,
meaning the first step in an eventual relationship.
It occurs to me that maybe some attitude adjustment could
help dispel frustrations that erupt when nothing happens.
First of all: expectation. It seems to me that the
likelihood of its *not* being different is overwhelming --
bar life is one of those things in our lives about which
changes in external appearances cover up a remarkably stable
sameness. Perhaps one is building in frustration by
expecting changes where none are likely to occur.
Another: preconceived outcome. If we expect a certain
outcome, one that we've nurtured and developed in our world
of secret hopes and aspirations, we've as it were prepared a
highway in our mind leading toward that outcome. This is
not necessarily a bad thing -- it often helps us get where
we're going to have a good idea about where that is. But
such a conceptual highway can also lead us right past
adventures of the heart that lie on some other road.
And so on.
>Maybe this is just a pipe dream, a fantasy, something that
>only happens in the movies (or Los Angeles).
The hopes themselves seem to me to be great universals. I
think wherever those hopes flutter in our hearts, there we
can find someone who shares them. Certainly no one place
has a monopoly on these desires, and one might also wonder
if wanting something that seems to happen more in the movies
(or Los Angeles :-) than in actual life is a very good way to
spending the finite capital of one's energies.
>What's happening in Gay culture? Are Lover relationships
>still around? Is it everyone out for himself/herself?
First: not much. Second: surely they are. Third:
resounding yes and resounding no.
Gay culture, at least from the perspective of a now quiet and
reflective life, seems essentially the same as it was 30 or
40 years ago, despite some political and social changes in
circumstances.
Lover relationships are about as common as ever, maybe even
a bit more common than in pre-AIDS days, I think. After all,
the desire to be with another person in some special way is
one of the oldest impulses on earth. But self-interest is
not necessarily opposed to the flowering of such liaisons,
often quite the contrary.
>I seldom, if ever, see any postings about gay relationships
>on Soc.motss, and I`m curious as to why this is. Whats
>happening with everyone? Is this a taboo subject????
I'm a little surprised that you missed some very recent
stories about people whose lovers had just died. Death is
as near-taboo a subject as one might find, yet we just had
two or three very intensely moving accounts. On another
tack, one of our eternal topics here is monogamy/
nonmonogamy, which surely brings up relationships. What we
tend not to see -- I wouldn't talk about it that much
myself, I think -- is extended treatments of the "my partner
and I have *such* a wonderful thing going" sort.
It's all a little scattered, I guess, but from this historical
perspective, it seems to me bar life and the hopes we bring
to it are about what they've always been.
Of course, when one is feeling a little down about it all,
it probably helps to say, as I guess Lee did, Hey, I don't
like that very much, it doesn't feel like enough. That's
right, it isn't -- when it isn't. But that frees a person
up to do something else with the life, too.
<> Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it,
<> doesn't go away. -- Philip K. Dick
--
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: ande...@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: ande...@yak.macc.wisc.edu Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Henry Mensch
->Well, its saturday night, And I`ve closed the bar again. Here I sit
->with my trusty Mac, reaching out across the unknown world of the NET. I
->can`t count the times that I`ve talked myself into going to the
->bar,thinking that this time will be different. This time I will meet
->someone who is interested in getting to know me, and will let me know
->him.
do you go with friends, or by yourself (if you go with friends and you
meet some of their friends there, you will meet people ... eventually
this turns into something you can use).
do you go there with this purpose? why not just go to have a good
time?
->Are Lover relationships still around? Is it everyone out for
->himself/herself? I seldom, if ever, see any postings about gay
->relationships on Soc.motss, and I`m curious as to why this is. Whats
->happening with everyone? Is this a taboo subject????
relationships are discussed all the time (although not much lately). i
think they're all too involved in their relationships to write (if you
had a honey of your very own and were faced with the choice of spending
time with him or writing to the net.nerds about relationships, which
choice would YOU make?)
--
# Henry Mensch / Advanced Decision Systems / <he...@ads.com>
Jess Anderson
>ljoh...@triton.unm.edu () wrote:
[relationships, etc.]
>relationships are discussed all the time (although not much
>lately). i think they're all too involved in their
>relationships to write (if you had a honey of your very own
>and were faced with the choice of spending time with him or
>writing to the net.nerds about relationships, which choice
>would YOU make?)
Not to suggest, probably, that some net.nerds who spend time
writing about relationships here don't *also* have
honey-types of their own. I know many such. But the point
is still well taken: I'm sure if I had The One, he would
divorce me for all this tube time, instead of the other
kind.
<> The man who follows the crowd will usually get no further
<> than the crowd. The man who walks alone is likely to
<> find himself in places no one has ever been.
<> -- Alan Ashley-Pitt
Timothy Keeling
ljoh...@triton.unm.edu writes:
>
>Well, its saturday night, And I`ve closed the bar again. Here I
>sit with my trusty Mac, reaching out across the unknown world of
>the NET. I can`t count the times that I`ve talked myself into
>going to the bar,thinking that this time will be different. This
>time I will meet someone who is interested in getting to know
>me, and will let me know him. Maybe this is just a pipe dream, a
>fantasy, something that only happens in the movies (or Los
>Angles). Whats happening in Gay culture? Are Lover relationships
>still around? Is it everyone out for himself/herself? I
>seldom, if ever, see any postings about gay relationships on
>Soc.motss, and I`m curious as to why this is. Whats happening
>with everyone? Is this a taboo subject????
>Lee
Very good question.
I have told myself so many times that "this time will be
different" and gone to the bar, only to leave, have sex with some
guy you just met 2-3 hours ago and HOPE that this time it won't
turn out like all the others. Hope that is, that it won't be the
"I'll call you..." only to never hear from them again.
I go to the bar, everyone stands around the dance floor and looks
at everyone else. Most, I suspect, would just love to talk to
someone, yet nobody initiates contact until they feel comfortable
enough (due to beer) to approach whoever they have had their eye
on.
To anyone who is currently or has been in a long-term (you decide
what that is) relationship:
Did you meet your SO in a bar? If not, where did you meet your
SO?
It would help just to know that relationships are possible and do
exist. Is the "one night stand" just a fact of life that I should
get use to?
P.S. By the way, thanks to everyone who answered my "slippery
stuff" question. Setting aside all the flaming, you all sure
do shine when you want to. :)
Steve Dyer
>To anyone who is currently or has been in a long-term (you decide
>what that is) relationship:
>Did you meet your SO in a bar? If not, where did you meet your SO?
A mutual friend suggested that we might like each other, and I invited
the both of them to dinner. Said friend finked out and skipped dinner.
The other man who came to dinner hasn't left since 1979...
--
Steve Dyer
dy...@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
dy...@arktouros.mit.edu, dy...@hstbme.mit.edu
Jess Anderson
Dyer) writes:
>In article <1991Apr14.1...@cs.utk.edu>
>kee...@cs.utk.edu (Timothy Keeling) writes:
>>where did you meet your SO?
>The other man who came to dinner hasn't left since 1979...
And a stunner he is, too!
<> If you can't ask your friends to help you with shopping,
<> they really aren't your friends.
<> -- Greg Parkinson (g...@ibism.UUCP)
Jess Anderson
In an article <1991Apr14.1...@cs.utk.edu>
kee...@cs.utk.edu (Timothy Keeling) writes:
>To anyone who is currently or has been in a long-term (you
>decide what that is) relationship:
>Did you meet your SO in a bar? If not, where did you meet
>your SO?
Lou: at school (couldn't go to bars then, we were only
11), lasted 5 years.
Nino: at a dinner party, lasted one summer.
Alan: at lunch with friends, lasted 3 years.
Arvid: at an after-bar party, lasted 3.5 years.
Don: at the music school practice rooms, lasted 2 years.
Tom: in a bar, lasted 1 year.
Ron: in a bar, lasted 10.5 years.
Eddie: at one of my concerts, lasted three months.
Steve: at a dinner party, lasted 3 years.
Steve: in a bar, last 3.5 years.
Roger: a friend brought him over to my place, last
6 months.
<> People often find it easier to be a result of the past
<> than a cause of the future. -- Unknown
Ellie Cutler
>
>In an article <1991Apr14.1...@cs.utk.edu>
>kee...@cs.utk.edu (Timothy Keeling) writes:
>
>>To anyone who is currently or has been in a long-term (you
>>decide what that is) relationship:
>
>>Did you meet your SO in a bar? If not, where did you meet
>>your SO?
>
>Lou: at school (couldn't go to bars then, we were only
> 11), lasted 5 years.
>
SO at AA meeting, lasted 4 years and counting.
Larry D. Stratton
>In article <1991Apr14.1...@cs.utk.edu> kee...@cs.utk.edu (Timothy Keeling) writes:
>>To anyone who is currently or has been in a long-term (you decide
>>what that is) relationship:
>>Did you meet your SO in a bar? If not, where did you meet your SO?
>A mutual friend suggested that we might like each other, and I invited
>the both of them to dinner. Said friend finked out and skipped dinner.
>The other man who came to dinner hasn't left since 1979...
>Steve Dyer
I was performing and Paul came to the concert. He saw me dance and decided
he had to meet me. He did. Then I did! Then we did -- for the last 22
years.
--
*************************************************************
L. D. STRATTON/la...@bradley.bradley.edu
Emmie Post says: "Household pets should never be allowed at the dining
table unless they can hold their own in conversation."
Greg Parkinson
|> >To anyone who is currently or has been in a long-term (you decide
|> >what that is) relationship:
|> >Did you meet your SO in a bar? If not, where did you meet your SO?
I met my former lover in a bar in (yes, it's true) White Plains, NY.
I had sworn never to go back to this place, since people there seemed
to be pretty rude and uninteresting. I was suffering from cabin fever,
I had just moved to White Plains one month before and didn't know anybody,
so I decided to give it a try.
We kept making eye contact, but my experiences there had been so awful
that I wanted to be *really* sure. After about 1/2 hour of this he
had the bartender give me a beer, we started talking, I went to his
house for dinner the next night and stayed for 4 years.
It does happen, just seemingly not when you expect it to.
--
Greg Parkinson (GregBear) Phone: 212-657-7814
Citibank Fax: 212-825-8607
111 Wall Street E-Mail: uunet!ibism!glp
New York, NY 10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Mad Gardener in the Desert Over There
>SO?
Yes, we met in a bar some 14 years ago. We hopped in bed together
soon afterwards, again a week later, and the week after, and the
week after... In between, we talked (mostly he did) and got to
know each other, and one day it just seemed the most natural
thing to move in together.
>It would help just to know that relationships are possible and do
>exist. Is the "one night stand" just a fact of life that I should
>get use to?
But of course most of the men I met in bars didn't ended up
being my long-term lovers, but few of them were one-night-stand
either. Aren't there things in between?
Ying-Da Lee
Robert Coren
|>
|> Did you meet your SO in a bar? If not, where did you meet your
|> SO?
I met my lover at a job interview. This may not work for everybody.
:-)
Robert
Robert Coren
|> The other man who came to dinner hasn't left since 1979...
Just like in the movie? :-)
Stephanie A. Mineart
>
> Well, its saturday night, And I`ve closed the bar again. Here I sit with my
> trusty Mac, reaching out across the unknown world of the NET. I can`t count
> the times that I`ve talked myself into going to the bar,thinking that this time
> will be different. This time I will meet someone who is interested in getting to
> know me, and will let me know him.
I think bars (at least around here in Indiana, anyway)are an inconvient (sp?)
place to meet someone if you want to get to know them and possibly have
a relationship.
The music's loud, so you can't hear enough to have a conversation. Usually
one or both of you have been drinking, so your judgement's impaired and
you're likely to be on your rowdiest, most offensive behavior. The only
tools you have to try to make small talk are the things going on around
you; music, lights, people dancing, so it's hard to find something to talk
about.
At LGSA here at Ball State we've started having dinner parties and picnics
and board game nights and such so that we're in a social situation where
we are forced to hold conversations and get to know people. I never would
have guessed how many of my friends are such wonderful cooks.
It's been really refreshning to get to know people away from the noisy crowd.
--
Stephanie Mineart | "This desire's too much; it's rented out my
| brain. It's showing previews of your body
bric...@bsu-cs.bsu.edu | driving me insane." --Melissa Etheridge
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bob Donahue
>I think bars (at least around here in Indiana, anyway)are an inconvient (sp?)
>place to meet someone if you want to get to know them and possibly have
>a relationship.
Perhaps you're not going to the right kind of bars.
>The music's loud, so you can't hear enough to have a conversation.
Well, there are noisy bars and not-so-noisy bars. I can think
of two in Phoeniz where it's VERY easy to talk to people and have a pleasant
conversation. Also I find that those kinds of bars people are friendlier
than at the thump-thump bars. Also while crusing goes on, I find that people
are willing to talk and chat etc, without any pretense you may be trying
to pick them up and vice versa. (At least that's the case for Apollo's in
Phoenix!)
On the other hand El Paso in its quest for homogeneity, only has the
kind of bar you describe. 5 of them. I don't go there much.
> Usually one or both of you have been drinking, so your judgement's
> impaired and you're likely to be on your rowdiest, most offensive behavior.
Speak for yourself dear. I have never gone home with someone who has
been drunk, and I don't drink hardly at all.
> The only
>tools you have to try to make small talk are the things going on around
>you; music, lights, people dancing, so it's hard to find something to talk
>about.
Let's see I have talked about philosophy, music (other than
demographically oriented thump-thump music), science, travel, bears :-),
and other stuff...
>At LGSA here at Ball State we've started having dinner parties and picnics
>and board game nights and such so that we're in a social situation where
>we are forced to hold conversations and get to know people. I never would
>have guessed how many of my friends are such wonderful cooks.
Yeah, we have them here too. All of the "in-crowd"/nouveau-gaie[1]
people form a group together and all the "fringe" gravitate towards each
other for support, unless they want/need so desperately to be in the
"in-crowd" they hang out on the edges there. After a while I stopped going,
and I am a good cook.
>It's been really refreshning to get to know people away from the noisy crowd.
Whatever works, but methinks that you are overgeneralizing. I met
two of my ex-Bearfriends in bars - both were VERY interesting, very intelligent,
and non-plastic. And I did find that out on the first date (well, when we
met).
BBC, late to present *real* science!
John Crossley
Yep - I met mine at a bar! And before him I met a couple of heart breakers
also. so be careful about being "sure".
My SO came with a recommendation - That is I saw a friend and went over
to talk to her and she introduced me to a man she was with. We three
got snockerd and took off to Jack in the Box [how romo!] and finally
crashed. And we got glued. two years aint a long time but we are not
going to split up. I'm sure. right now were planning our Christmas
vacation. OUHHHH LAS VEGAS.......ah maybe Cancun, lets see.......
And yes it does happen and in the least expected way.
An aside - this is my first time post to this group, Please to meetcha.
John
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*******OH! dont mind HER, She worships the quicksand I walk on.******
Steel Magnolias
______________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer etc.
Dan Madison Byrd
I'd love to sit around and gossip/gab/chat about my lover. Unfortunately,
I'm very single--in a widowed sort of way--and not particularly 'eligible.'
On the other hand, if you want to sit around and talk about what a drag
it is being single, how frustrating it is when you meet someone in whom
you're interested, but who doesn't seem to be interested in you, and
how difficult and lonely life can be a lot of the time...
Dan Byrd
--
Just sittin' here wishin' on a cement floor
just wishing that I had just somethin' you wore
run outside in the desert heat
get your dress all wet, and send it to me...
Dan Madison Byrd
>different" and gone to the bar, only to leave, have sex with some
>guy you just met 2-3 hours ago and HOPE that this time it won't
>turn out like all the others. Hope that is, that it won't be the
>"I'll call you..." only to never hear from them again.
>
>I go to the bar, everyone stands around the dance floor and looks
>at everyone else. Most, I suspect, would just love to talk to
>someone, yet nobody initiates contact until they feel comfortable
>enough (due to beer) to approach whoever they have had their eye
>on.
>
>To anyone who is currently or has been in a long-term (you decide
>what that is) relationship:
>
>Did you meet your SO in a bar? If not, where did you meet your
>SO?
>
>It would help just to know that relationships are possible and do
>exist. Is the "one night stand" just a fact of life that I should
>get use to?
>
I've only had one "one night stand" {actually, it was a one weekend stand
with a two week platonic follow up} in my life, and didn't enjoy it at
all. But my one long term relationship {forgive me, I'm still only 23 ;}
never had anything to do with the "bar scene." Tommy and I met at work,
and knew each other for about 6 months before we even started dating...
So NO!!!Regular relationships are possible. I can't even stand the
thought of a one-night stand, and hate going to bars just to 'scope
out the local talent' so-to-speak. I always feel like there's a big
sign knifed to my chest that says "FOR SALE"
I realize there aren't that many places we {gay men} can go to meet each other;
most spaces are just assumed to straight space. But not all bars are
meat-markets and pick up joints, and a lot of cities have gay space
outside the bars.
This is something I've always been curious about...Does anyone go
to a bar to meet someone and go out to dinner or a movie or
something {i.e. a 'normal' first date}, but not have sex the first night?
Daniel Joseph Burns
>So NO!!!Regular relationships are possible. I can't even stand the
>thought of a one-night stand, and hate going to bars just to 'scope
>out the local talent' so-to-speak. I always feel like there's a big
>sign knifed to my chest that says "FOR SALE"
Watch those generalizations, Dan. Some people would consider your definition
of normal (or "regular") to be abnormal. Other than that small point, I think
that bars are often the first stepping stone on a person's way out of the
closet. There's nothing wrong with a "meat market" atmosphere for people who
have been starved most of their young adult lives. However, IMHO, bars are
also what you bring to them. If you are looking for sex, you can get it. If
you are looking for companionship or conversation, you can find that too.
--
John Fisher
> I can`t count
> the times that I`ve talked myself into going to the bar,thinking that this time
> will be different. This time I will meet someone who is interested in getting to
> know me, and will let me know him. Maybe this is just a pipe dream, a fantasy,
> something that only happens in the movies (or Los Angles).
No, I went to a bar and met the man I now live with. We've been together
ever since.
If that's what you want, Lee, it can be found.
Mind you, it's worth pointing out *how* we met. He was talking to a friend
of mine. I went over and my friend introduced us. Simple. I find that
the best way to have a good time in a bar is to go with, or to meet,
friends. I've never been good at picking people up cold, and I don't think
I'm alone in this.
And don't *try* too hard.
--John
John Evans
>Did you meet your SO in a bar? If not, where did you meet your SO?
I met my SO, Ian, in a bar in the West End of London, Comptons of Soho. We
were introduced by Martin - a mutual friend and prostitute by profession -
who I knew from my time living in Watford where he was the houseboy of my
then landlord, an officer of the metropolitan police.
That was in the March of `89. We finally got it together (snicker) on the
Pride day that year. We still don't live with each other (we would quite
likely kill each other within the first week..) but things (despite the
rows!) are good.
Robert-John
--
Timothy Keeling
>
> I am not a person to go out and find me a one-night stand
> anyway. The Mental part of loving someone is more important
> to me than the Physical aspects. But, when the relationship
> developes to the point when we love each other enough to
> have sex, it's going to be something mutual that both of us
> will enjoy.
>
> I guess one-night stands can be fun for a while, but I don't
> see me (or anyone) living happily their whole lifetime doing it.
>
That is what I am beginning to find out. One night stands, (although great
while they are happening) are not worth the emptyness I feel the next
afternoon. I hope it isn't greedy of me to want someone there every
night. I keep saying "No more" but my resolve seems to weaken when some
great looking guy says he wants to lick me all over. It's hard to say
"NO" to that.
The bar scene is getting OLD. Late nights, little sleep. At least I don't
drink so no hangover to worry about.
I hope you find what you are looking for Richard. Best wishes.
Timothy Keeling
>
>I guess at heart I'm a one-person, long-term relationship kind of guy...
>
>Dan Byrd
>
Well at least I know men like you are out there. Ever think about seeing
the Smoky Mountains? (In Tennessee).
David Phillips
My lover and I met while scanning the wall of kitchen gadgets in the
housewares department of a local department store. (5th floor of
Strawbridges, 8th and Market, for you Philadelphians.)
We both now claim the opening line "If you tell me what you're
looking for I'll tell you if I've found it." We had coffee, he came
to dinner a week later, and he hasn't left yet.
************************************************************************
David Phillips University of Pennsylvania d...@central.cis.upenn.edu
Paul Isaacs
>what that is) relationship:
>
>Did you meet your SO in a bar? If not, where did you meet your
>SO?
>
I met him at an ACTUP meeting in Manhattan.
Actually, I used to refer to ACTUP as 'church,' because it was a public place
with lighting where you could meet 'upstanding citizens' -- other people who
(theoretically) shared your ethics, etc. Also, as in other houses of worship,
there were many people who went more for social than religious reasons.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"No, just go away. And never darken my Dior again."
-- Dorothy Parker, after being offered help by a
waitress who had spilled soup on her dress.
Richard
kee...@cs.utk.edu (Timothy Keeling) writes:
> That is what I am beginning to find out. One night stands, (although great
> while they are happening) are not worth the emptyness I feel the next
> afternoon. I hope it isn't greedy of me to want someone there every
> night. I keep saying "No more" but my resolve seems to weaken when some
> great looking guy says he wants to lick me all over. It's hard to say
> "NO" to that.
>
> The bar scene is getting OLD. Late nights, little sleep. At least I don't
> drink so no hangover to worry about.
>
> I hope you find what you are looking for Richard. Best wishes.
Thanks Tim, but so far I'm still holding my own.
I'm still young (22) and in college (Freshperson).
I've only been here since January anyway (and am fairly
new to the Gay scene, coming out a couple of months ago).
I guess it has to do with the Fact that Gay Relationships
are few and the majority of the Gay Population have one
night stands. I cannot understand the devaluation of sex
among People.
I really gotta Have it Tonite!
Two Guys get together in order to satisfy their
"Need" for sex and this results in sex becomming
more like lighting a cigarette than Loving Someone.
I am wondering if Sex, as we get older, turns into something
of an addiction to, rather than something "special" between
two loving and consenting individuals.
I'm really not looking too seriously now, but I know I'll
run across someone along the way.
I think I'm afraid of starting a relationship, because a
majority of them someday end. But I guess this is
something I am going to have to live through (another
stage of growing up).
-Richard.
"My Heart is Warm and Gay"
Henry Mensch
-> That is what I am beginning to find out. One night stands, (although great
-> while they are happening) are not worth the emptyness I feel the next
-> afternoon. I hope it isn't greedy of me to want someone there every
-> night.
that's not at all greedy ... it is, however, unrealistic to expect
this from one encounter.
it *is* possible to have a good time going into one-night-stands ...
especially whenyou're ready to call an ace an ace, etc.
Rod Williams
> Did you meet your SO in a bar? If not, where did you meet your
> SO?
I met my SO at a company party - a lesbian friend (hi, Karen!) took
him along as her "date" so we could meet. It worked (:-))
A previous boyfriend (hi, Blaine!) picked me up in a bar (the Austin
(Tx.) Country, in '78) - he sidled up to me and whispered seductively
in my ear, "do you like your peanut butter smooth or crunchy?" Well
I *hate* peanut butter in any form, and told him so in no uncertain
terms, thereby sealing our friendship. The affair lasted only a couple
of months, but we've been best pals ever since.
--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * There ain't no sin, ain't no *
* Rod Williams * virtue - just stuff people do *
* Pacific Bell - San Ramon CA * [John Steinbeck] *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Dan Madison Byrd
All right...I put quotes around 'normal' when I used it, but let
'Regular' slip right by...Sorry...
And I don't think it's always true that bars are what you take to them.
A lot of bars have an atmosphere based on what *other* people take to
them, or often based on the pre-existing atmosphere of the bar. If I go to a
'meat-market' and just want to sit and talk with
a friend, I'll invariably be cruised and hit on a couple of times.
If I don't want to be hit on, then it's my responsibility to go
somewhere else. But around here there aren't really other places
to go. So I don't go to bars...
I guess at heart I'm a one-person, long-term relationship kind of guy...
Richard
In article <73...@spdcc.SPDCC.COM> rdon...@spdcc.COM (Bob Donahue) writes:
>bric...@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Stephanie A. Mineart) writes:
>>I think bars (at least around here in Indiana, anyway)are an inconvenient
>>place to meet someone if you want to get to know them and possibly have
>>a relationship.
> Perhaps you're not going to the right kind of bars.
I just wanted to add to Stephanie's statements that here
in Indiana (she's in the NE part of the state, I'm in the
CW part of the state) there isn't really any choice
of bars to go to (specifically Gay Bars).
There's one here in Lafayette called the Depot.
I go there usually every Friday and Saturday nights to
Dance, play pool, and have a few drinks (Rum&Coke, Bud Lite,
and Southern Comfort & OJ). You meet some people, but
I don't really see a serious relationship developing with
anyone I met so far (still waiting for that special person).
It's a place to meet other gay people (socializing).
I have yet to bring someone home with me.
I am not a person to go out and find me a one-night stand
anyway. The Mental part of loving someone is more important
to me than the Physical aspects. But, when the relationship
developes to the point when we love each other enough to
have sex, it's going to be something mutual that both of us
will enjoy.
I guess one-night stands can be fun for a while, but I don't
see me (or anyone) living happily their whole lifetime doing it.
So I am agreeing with Stephaine that the bars (Here) are
mostly where people just come for "non-relationship" stuff.
So I guess if I want to find me a relationship, it's going to
have to be the cleaners or at the grocery store ;-)
I'm hoping I was able to get my thoughts across.
-Richard.
B0 h- cd? f++ t+ w gv k+ s(-) m+ e?
"Alternative Dance Coming to Purdue on April 26th"
Owen Rowley
> We both now claim the opening line "If you tell me what you're
> looking for I'll tell you if I've found it." We had coffee, he came
> to dinner a week later, and he hasn't left yet.
I had seen Mick at a meeting of the santa Cruz Gay Mens Support group
( oddly enough Randy Clark was also hanging around with that group at the
time, and all three of us now work for Autodesk.. how strange!)
But it was the next day on the beach that we met. I had made a valiant
attempt to actually play, and got smacked in the face with the ball.
As I was sulking on the sidelines, Mick approached and made some small talk.
The *line* that did it though, was "Have you ever heard of Aleister
Crowley?" .... I just smiled.
LUX .. owen
--
D. Owen Rowley, {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen , { ow...@autodesk.com }
Aleister Crowley, when asked to define *The Tao* said,
"The result of subtracting the universe from itself"
Mick Washbrook
>
> I had seen Mick at a meeting of the santa Cruz Gay Mens Support group
> ( oddly enough Randy Clark was also hanging around with that group at the
> time, and all three of us now work for Autodesk.. how strange!)
> But it was the next day on the beach that we met. I had made a valiant
> attempt to actually play, and got smacked in the face with the ball.
> As I was sulking on the sidelines, Mick approached and made some small talk.
> The *line* that did it though, was "Have you ever heard of Aleister
> Crowley?" .... I just smiled.
>
question: "Would you like to come up and see my collection of Tarot
cards?" I mean, there was no pretense of a stamp collection or
anything. The rest is history--the balmy nights in Rio, the
condo in Hawaii, and the vacations at exclusive resorts in St.
Moritz--I'm still waiting for 'em!
--
Mick Washbrooke mi...@autodesk.com
otium cum dignitate
Rob Boldbear
>This is something I've always been curious about...Does anyone go
>to a bar to meet someone and go out to dinner or a movie or
>something {i.e. a 'normal' first date}, but not have sex the first night?
There are really two questions there, well, at least I have two separate
answers :-)
Yes, plenty of time I have a *traditional* date first with someone, but
then *after* dinner, we go fuck. :-)
Personally, I find that things like a movie or the theater on a first
date (with someone you don't know well) are very risky. You wind up
spending time sorta together but not really interacting and then if the
movie or play isn't that good, it can wind up ruining the mood when
first impressions are just forming. I find dinner much better -
provides time to interact with the person, and leaves time afterwards
for things to take their course.
--
Rob Boldbear email: r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US phone: (415) 827-4301
"The Was^ichus [Whites] did not care for each other the way our people did. ...
They would take everything from each other they could. ... They had forgotten
the earth was their mother. ... [They] even had the grass penned up."-Black Elk
Jess Anderson
>I met my SO, Ian, in a bar in the West End of London, Comptons of Soho. We
>were introduced by Martin - a mutual friend and prostitute by profession -
>who I knew from my time living in Watford where he was the houseboy of my
>then landlord, an officer of the metropolitan police.
Maybe it's just me, or that I really dont' want to work this
afternoon, but I think this paragraph has a pronounced Dickensian
ring to it.
<> A democratic regime which allows its highest court to
<> maintain states' rights to sodomy laws based on biblical
<> precedent has lost its luster for me. -- Owen Rowley
--
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: ande...@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: ande...@yak.macc.wisc.edu Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Dan Madison Byrd
>In article <1991Apr14.1...@cs.utk.edu> kee...@cs.utk.edu (Timothy Keeling) writes:
>On the subway. Hence his nickname: Mr. Subway. Wonderfully suggestive,
^^^^^^^^^^^
>wouldn't you say? And, while I had absolutely no intention of him
>becoming my SO, we got embroiled in these silly emotional entanglements
>and can't get enough of each other anymore -- you know, calling each
>other's office 2 or 3 times a day, cancelling plans with other friends,
>that sort of thing. Hell of a fun 1991 so far!!
>
You're absolutely sure that's the *only* motivation for the nickname...
Keith Niall
Dan Byrd says:
(reference unnecessary)
>I guess at heart I'm a one-person, long-term relationship kind of guy...
Well, we all have our ideals, and I'm sure it's very good for advertising.
However, just once wouldn't you like to meet someone who isn't quite so
restrictive ? These days, it seems like absolutely everyone is into
one or zero (being number one or being a zero, that is...). Now wouldn't
it be Faabulous to meet someone who was into no less than two of
everything ?
Just think: two boyfriends, two lives, two gods...
This one only or none at all attitude HAS GOT TO GO.
With tongue planted firmly in some cheek or other...
--
*** Keith Niall ****** k...@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca *****************************
I lay by your side and watched the green light of dawn climb over our bodies
and bring out of the darkness the one face in the world that made nothing
else matter at all. (Patrick Kavanagh)
Jess Anderson
In article <73...@spdcc.SPDCC.COM> dy...@spdcc.COM (Steve
Dyer) delivers me from worry about my growing indolence
with:
>In article <1991Apr17.2...@macc.wisc.edu>
>ande...@dogie.macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>Hm, maybe that's why love is rare -- I've quit cooking.
>Hmnn, you like your love rare and your sex raw, eh? :-)
Gaak! I take it back. Sex is what's rare; love is raw.
>Is this a trend? In the late 70's and early 80's, we cooked
>and cooked, and had people over for dinner rather
>frequently. These days, it seems like we've no time, and
>neither do our guests. Our shameful addiction to the
>microwave has gotten so bad that our gas oven was broken for
>six months before either of us noticed it.
The foodnuke is the devil's invention. I've never had one,
though when I visited Rob in 88 I'm sure I ran up his
electric bill by $10 -- maybe that was ironing shirts,
though. You get really fresh eggs at Rob's house, for sure,
thanks to Ethel and Lucy (one of whom has gone to chicken
heaven, I forget which).
(Oh god, for a few more nights in chicken heaven before I
die -- but I digress.)
The smart little dinner seems to have gone the way of
bell-bottom trousers and the hula hoop. I've only had two
entirely decent home-cooked meals served to me in years, one
at Clay Bond's, the other at Ying-Da Lee's.
<> Most novices picture themselves as masters -- and are
<> content with the picture. This is why there are so few
<> masters. -- Jean Toomer
Wingerde van FJ
>kee...@cs.utk.edu (Timothy Keeling) wrote:
>-> That is what I am beginning to find out. One night stands, (although great
>-> while they are happening) are not worth the emptyness I feel the next
>-> afternoon. I hope it isn't greedy of me to want someone there every
>-> night.
>that's not at all greedy ... it is, however, unrealistic to expect
>this from one encounter.
>it *is* possible to have a good time going into one-night-stands ...
>especially whenyou're ready to call an ace an ace, etc.
># Henry Mensch / Advanced Decision Systems / <he...@ads.com>
Exactly. One thing I had to learn the 'hard' *) way is that one night stands are
the pits if you go into them wanting something else than... a one night stand.
I did (in a way), and it left me stone cold, like ice gnawing in my soul.
A one night stand (or a fifteen minute stand) can give you only one thing:
a fuck. They can be great, they can be satsfying, they can be terrible, but all
they are and will remain are one night fucks. More can grow out of it **), but
don't get into them expecting them to.
*) don't even snicker. It's the pits in wordplay.
**)So I had just been planted into Amsterdam at 18 years of age and was looking
for a room of my own. I was living with my sister (who was on vacation) and
one night, I was walking home. And our eyes met. And he followed. And he took
me home. And 2.5 years later, I'm managing three wardrobes (one at my place,
one at his and one at my parents house), half of my books are at his place, and
his cat actually likes me.
FJ!!
Jess Anderson
r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (Rob Boldbear) writes:
>I find dinner much better -
>provides time to interact with the person, and leaves time afterwards
>for things to take their course.
I've had fairly good luck cooking the dinner myself.
It's really true, I think, that nothing gets you into
a man's favor faster than putting uncommonly good food
into his belly. Having done well with one of his
appetites, he tends to believe you might know something
about doing well with other appetites.
Hm, maybe that's why love is rare -- I've quit cooking.
<> Vanilla Ice is a few cubes short of a full tray.
<> -- Evan Leibovitch (ev...@telly.on.ca)
Steve Dyer
Hmnn, you like your love rare and your sex raw, eh? :-)
Is this a trend? In the late 70's and early 80's, we cooked and cooked,
and had people over for dinner rather frequently. These days, it seems
like we've no time, and neither do our guests. Our shameful addiction to the
microwave has gotten so bad that our gas oven was broken for six months
before either of us noticed it.
--
Steve Dyer
dy...@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
dy...@arktouros.mit.edu, dy...@hstbme.mit.edu
Nancy Fox
>>>what that is) relationship:
>
were half in the bag that there was this woman I HAD to meet. Said
she was a riot. Our mutual friend E. (a guy) lived with her at the
time. So we put on our long flannel night gowns and hiking boots (it
was fall in New Hampshire) and I got her settled into the back of the
car (she had a broken neck at the time) and off we went to Judy's.
We stood outside her door singing Christmas carols (it was October)
for a long time before she finally decided to check on what all
that racket was outside. It was love at first sight. Actually, she had
seen me briefly at a party one night, had heard a lot about me, and
had wanted to meet me, too. That was sixteen years ago.
Nancy
Anonymous Posting Account
>In article <1991Apr17.1...@psych.toronto.edu> an...@psych.toronto.edu (Anonymous Posting Account) writes:
>
>>On the subway. Hence his nickname: Mr. Subway. Wonderfully suggestive,
> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>>wouldn't you say?
>
>
>
Like Jane Siberry sings, "Something about trains
And love, and the way
this ol' world looks tonight..."
-anon
ljoh...@triton.unm.edu
>In article <1991Apr17.2...@macc.wisc.edu> ande...@dogie.macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>Hm, maybe that's why love is rare -- I've quit cooking.
>
>Hmnn, you like your love rare and your sex raw, eh? :-)
>
>Is this a trend? In the late 70's and early 80's, we cooked and cooked,
>and had people over for dinner rather frequently. These days, it seems
>like we've no time, and neither do our guests. Our shameful addiction to the
>microwave has gotten so bad that our gas oven was broken for six months
>before either of us noticed it.
>
>--
>Steve Dyer
GAS OVEN??? what is that?...... oh! now I remember, my mother had one of
those...
Sorry, couldn`t resist.
Lee
Larry D. Stratton
>The smart little dinner seems to have gone the way of
>bell-bottom trousers and the hula hoop. I've only had two
>entirely decent home-cooked meals served to me in years, one
>at Clay Bond's, the other at Ying-Da Lee's.
Come on down, Jess. Paul and I make it a point to have "our" evening once
a week with a home-cooked meal. Be prepared though. We are both messy
cooks and the place is usually a disaster by the time we are done. As for
friends being busy, I totally agree. It is hell trying to get 8 people
together at the same time since we usually are spontaneous and call the
same day. Hey, perhaps that's why! :-).
--
*************************************************************
L. D. STRATTON/la...@bradley.bradley.edu
Emmie Post says: "Household pets should never be allowed at the dining
table unless they can hold their own in conversation."
Mara Chibnik
ande...@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>Gaak! I take it back. Sex is what's rare; love is raw.
Do you think sex is rarer if you insist that it be well done?
--
cmcl2!panix!mara Mara Chibnik ma...@dorsai.com
It can hardly be coincidence that no language on earth has ever
produced the expression "As pretty as an airport." --Douglas Adams
Jess Anderson
ma...@panix.uucp (Mara Chibnik) writes:
>In article <1991Apr18.0...@macc.wisc.edu>
>ande...@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>Gaak! I take it back. Sex is what's rare; love is raw.
>Do you think sex is rarer if you insist that it be well done?
Two things about that: (1) I'm in no position in insist
anything; (2) you think today's tots know what well done
even *is*? Hah!! :-)
<> Why do writers write? Because it isn't there.
<> -- Thomas Berger
Paul Crowley
>On the subway. Hence his nickname: Mr. Subway.
Awww, and I had visions of a Christophe Lambert lookalike. I know
someone who used to look a lot like the CL of "Subway" 'till he grew his
hair long. I still want him delivered gift-wrapped to my home address...
____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley ai...@uk.ac.ed.castle \ /
/\__/ Part straight. Part gay. All queer. \/
Dan Madison Byrd
You realize of course cooking with a microwave is a felony punishable
by up to 10 years in prison...
Dan Byrd
--
Just sittin' here wishin' on a cement floor |
just wishing that I had just somethin' you wore |
run outside in the desert heat |
make your dress all wet, and send it to me... | --The Pixies
Jeff Dauber
>In article <1991Apr18....@panix.uucp>
>ma...@panix.uucp (Mara Chibnik) writes:
>
>>In article <1991Apr18.0...@macc.wisc.edu>
>>ande...@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>>>Gaak! I take it back. Sex is what's rare; love is raw.
>
>>Do you think sex is rarer if you insist that it be well done?
>
>Two things about that: (1) I'm in no position in insist
>anything; (2) you think today's tots know what well done
>even *is*? Hah!! :-)
Pardon? At 24, do I qualify as a tot? If so, I take exception to
point 2.
[ooh, Lassie-baby, do you want to become domesticated partners?]
Think very carefully before you answer....
Jeff
-FWA
Jess Anderson
dau...@flush.Eng.Sun.COM (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>In article <1991Apr18.1...@macc.wisc.edu>
>ande...@dogie.macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>Two things about that: (1) I'm in no position in insist
>>anything; (2) you think today's tots know what well done
>>even *is*? Hah!! :-)
>Pardon? At 24, do I qualify as a tot? If so, I take
>exception to point 2.
Think of it as an affectionate term, Jeff. People (like
you) who are less than half my age don't seem all that old.
As for knowing what well done is, just wait, just wait; your
next ten years, should you be blessed by having them, are
going to exceed your wildest imagination, unless I badly
miss my guess. (And yes, in ten years, you'll be more than
half my age, a bit long in the tooth for totdom.) :-)
>[ooh, Lassie-baby, do you want to become domesticated partners?]
>Think very carefully before you answer....
Well, doing *that* is not especially my style ...
<> I think *true* happiness can only be found in the wanton
<> indulgence of animals.
<> -- Hobbes, "Calvin and Hobbes" by Bill Watterson)
Chuck Fisher
> I guess it has to do with the Fact that Gay Relationships
> are few and the majority of the Gay Population have one
> night stands. I cannot understand the devaluation of sex
> among People.
Well speaking as one who has experienced both the het and the gay
scene, IMO there's little difference between the two groups of men in
terms of what they want. It's just that it's more difficult for het
men to "score." I think that het men would have just as many one night
stands as gay men, if they had the opportunity.
> I really gotta Have it Tonite!
> Two Guys get together in order to satisfy their
> "Need" for sex and this results in sex becomming
> more like lighting a cigarette than Loving Someone.
Sounds like you might be confusing love with sex. You can have one
without the other or both together. Love is an emotion, sex is an
activity.
> I am wondering if Sex, as we get older, turns into something
> of an addiction to, rather than something "special" between
> two loving and consenting individuals.
Now that I'm in my mid-40s I would say that sex can certainly become
habituating, but I think only an addiction for a few people. Hopefully
all sex is between consenting individuals, whether or not they are
"loving" is another issue. Many activities, not just sex, can be
"special" between people who are in love.
> I think I'm afraid of starting a relationship, because a
> majority of them someday end. But I guess this is
> something I am going to have to live through (another
> stage of growing up).
Sooner or later we all die and that will end whatever relationships are
extent at that time. But the fact that relationships may be of a
"temporary" nature is no reason to avoid them. The classic "nuclear
family" in this country ends in divorce a high percentage of the time,
and this is with societal, financial, and legal pressures which
discourage their dissolution. As gay people we have few factors to
keep us together.
My advice is to live each day one day at a time and enjoy what each
day brings to you.
Chuck
--
Chuck Fisher Work: (800) 359-7997
ch...@netcom.com <--- Note change Home: (415) 964-2819
{apple,claris,amdahl,tandem}!netcom!chas
Jess Anderson
In article <1991Apr18.1...@csl.dl.nec.com>
yl...@csl.dl.nec.com (Mad Gardener in the Desert Over There)
-- and lemme tell ya, he ain't kiddin' about *that*, the
man's a horticultural miracle:
>In article <1991Apr18.0...@macc.wisc.edu>
>ande...@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>Sex is what's rare; love is raw.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^???
>Hah! You can't fool me! Remember the time when my office
>was right next to yours? Oh my, all those unmentionable
>noises...
Now let's see, was that in your first incarnation or your
second? If the former, Steven; if the latter, Roger.
>On second thought, that was during the time you were really
>cooking, weren't you?
On all burners, honey!
>>The smart little dinner seems to have gone the way of
>>bell-bottom trousers and the hula hoop. I've only had two
>>entirely decent home-cooked meals served to me in years, one
>>at Clay Bond's, the other at Ying-Da Lee's.
>Oh-oh, gotta scratch your name off my suspects list. If it
>wasn't you, then who was it that spread the vicious rumors
>about our cooking? My open invitation to Usenix motssers in
>Jan. for a dinner at our house landed a total of two vic-eh-
>sorry, guests, and Murray was completely heartbroken.
Dearest, they *are* missing it. World, when this fellow
puts on one of his rare feasts, you better be there; he can
*really* cook. Go during iris season for a double delight,
or go anytime and see orchids you wouldn't believe.
>There have been reported sightings in our neighborhood of a
>white-haired, white-bearded, distinguished-looking gentleman
>who rushes out of nowhere into busy traffic pleading: "Come
>to our house for dinner! Please! I'll serve you tempura
>and white chocolate mousse!" The police has no clue to the
>identity of the Phantom of the Tempura so far, and I have no
>heart to turn Murray in after he promised not to do it
>again.
"Phantom of the Tempura" is unquestionably the worst pun of
1991 or any other year. Really, Ying-Da, you've been out in
the Texas sun too much! :-) Give Murray a smooch.
<> Human affairs are not serious, but they have to be taken
<> seriously. -- Iris Murdoch
CSRI Distribution Manager
>even *is*? Hah!! :-)
>
That's because they all think "its mainly because of the meat"! :)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
Chris Stephenson dis...@turing.toronto.edu
"If I could have my way I would be running with the circus, I would be taming
all the lions. There'd be no denyin' I was brave..and crazy." Melissa Etheridge
Walter L. Peterson, Jr.
> Did you meet your SO in a bar? If not, where did you meet your
> SO?
I met my first lover in the Army. One of the FEW things the Army did
right was to station us together through five consecutive assignments.
My current SO and I met in a very modern, high-tech way; on the "CB"
interactive chat lines on CompuServe.
--
Walter L. Peterson | ______
Internet : w...@calmasd.Prime.COM | \ /
CompuServe : 70441,3177 | \ / Silence = Death
"The opinions expressed here are my own." | \/
Roger B.A. Klorese
>In article <11...@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
>dau...@flush.Eng.Sun.COM (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>>Pardon? At 24, do I qualify as a tot?
>
>you) who are less than half my age don't seem all that old.
>As for knowing what well done is, just wait, just wait; your
>next ten years, should you be blessed by having them, are
>going to exceed your wildest imagination, unless I badly
>miss my guess.
I doubt it, Jess. In Jeff's case, I think the *last* ten have exceeded
the wildest imagination of many of his elders...
>>[ooh, Lassie-baby, do you want to become domesticated partners?]
>
>>Think very carefully before you answer....
>
>Well, doing *that* is not especially my style ...
Yes, Jeff, you're barking up the wrong tree...
[Ohhh, Spot, such well-turned paws... and those clipped claws...]
--
ROGER B.A. KLORESE MIPS Computer Systems, Inc.
MS 6-05 930 DeGuigne Dr. Sunnyvale, CA 94088 +1 408 524-7421
"10 years of Reagan/Bush have brought us to a new place: postconstitutional
America." - Jon Carroll rog...@mips.COM | {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!rogerk
Paul Perrotta
>
>The smart little dinner seems to have gone the way of
>bell-bottom trousers and the hula hoop. I've only had two
>entirely decent home-cooked meals served to me in years, one
>at Clay Bond's, the other at Ying-Da Lee's.
>
I wouldn't quite say that, Jess. In our neck of the woods, the
custom of smart little dinners is alive and well.
Paul
------------------------------------------------------
Paul Perrotta
perr...@pyrxbooter.pyramid.com
I speak for myself.
Mad Gardener in the Desert Over There
>Dyer) delivers me from worry about my growing indolence
>with:
>>In article <1991Apr17.2...@macc.wisc.edu>
>>ande...@dogie.macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>>Hm, maybe that's why love is rare -- I've quit cooking.
>>Hmnn, you like your love rare and your sex raw, eh? :-)
>Gaak! I take it back. Sex is what's rare; love is raw.
Hah! You can't fool me! Remember the time when my office
was right next to yours? Oh my, all those unmentionable
noises...
On second thought, that was during the time you were
really cooking, weren't you?
>The smart little dinner seems to have gone the way of
>bell-bottom trousers and the hula hoop. I've only had two
>entirely decent home-cooked meals served to me in years, one
>at Clay Bond's, the other at Ying-Da Lee's.
Oh-oh, gotta scratch your name off my suspects list. If it
wasn't you, then who was it that spread the vicious rumors
about our cooking? My open invitation to Usenix motssers
in Jan. for a dinner at our house landed a total of two vic-eh-
sorry, guests, and Murray was completely heartbroken.
There have been reported sightings in our neighborhood of a
white-haired, white-bearded, distinguished-looking gentleman
who rushes out of nowhere into busy traffic pleading: "Come
to our house for dinner! Please! I'll serve you tempura
and white chocolate mousse!" The police has no clue to the
identity of the Phantom of the Tempura so far, and I have no
heart to turn Murray in after he promised not to do it again.
Ying-Da Lee
Greg Parkinson
|>
|> Intimacy is addictive... I've been a long-term user, now I have gone
|> cold turkey, and it hurts. I'm not talking about grief (that's another
|> story), but loss of intimacy. I need it, but not only don't I know
|> where to find it, I know that it takes years to develop (at least to
|> the extent I knew).
|>
I was/am in the same position - I was in a relationship with a man
for four years, which ended when he passed away a year ago. The
intimacy that developed between us was (to me) a miraculous, wonderful
thing that was (and is) incredibly painful to lose.
I had assigned to myself the role of long-suffering widow, destined
to be alone because there could only be one such man in existence.
He was my first and only real relationship; I had barely even
had a boyfriend before I met him, and I met him when I was thirty.
With that kind of track record, I figured it was unlikely to happen
again.
This last December, I was in Costa Rica for a "I've got to get away
from all this" ten-day vacation before Christmas. I was very
depressed, had started taking anti-depressants, and spent long
hours just sitting, sighing, and crying. And I met this man (some
people have heard this story before) who was attractive, smart, and
great in bed. You think it's a problem meeting people in bars?
Try it in a language you don't know! We spent 4 days together
that trip, and I didn't know what to think. It was too soon,
too long distance, etc., etc. He came to New York in mid-January
and stayed for a month, and it just got better and better.
I went down last week for a week and it was even better.
There's lots of issues (language, citizenship, and employment being
the top three) but I think there's something here of interest to
people (like me) who have lost lovers - there are other people
out there for us. The whole process is different, but that makes
sense since I am a very different person than I was 5 years ago,
and Cristian is not the same person as Eddie. I hope eventually
I will stop crying when I wake up with Cristian and the feelings
remind me of Eddie and all the love and sorrow and loss. I hope
I will stop comparing Cristian and how I feel about him to Eddie
and how I felt about him. And most of all, I hope I have the balls
to go for what makes me happy instead of sitting home and bemoaning
the life I lost.
-----
"Mucha mas alla de me ventana,
mi esperanza jugaba a una flor, a un jardin,
como esperando abril." - Silvio Rodriguez
"Far beyond my window
my hope turns into a flower, a garden,
as if waiting for April to come."
----
Greg Parkinson (GregBear) Phone: 212-657-7814
Citibank Fax: 212-825-8607
111 Wall Street E-Mail: uunet!ibism!glp
New York, NY 10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
SHAWN HICKS
>In article <1991Apr16.1...@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu> dmb...@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Dan Madison Byrd) writes:
>>So NO!!!Regular relationships are possible. I can't even stand the
>>thought of a one-night stand, and hate going to bars just to 'scope
>>out the local talent' so-to-speak. I always feel like there's a big
>>sign knifed to my chest that says "FOR SALE"
>
>Watch those generalizations, Dan. Some people would consider your definition
>of normal (or "regular") to be abnormal. Other than that small point, I think
>that bars are often the first stepping stone on a person's way out of the
>closet. There's nothing wrong with a "meat market" atmosphere for people who
>have been starved most of their young adult lives. However, IMHO, bars are
>also what you bring to them. If you are looking for sex, you can get it. If
>you are looking for companionship or conversation, you can find that too.
>--
>
>Dan
>d...@seti.jpl.nasa.gov
ok, I've debated whether to cry on the net.shoulder or not, but since someone
else originated the thread...
Until I came out I thought I'd never find I girl I would like sexually as
well as personally. Then, when I was 22 I looked in the mirror and said,
out loud, "you idiot... you're gay. No wonder you can't find a girlfriend!"
At first I was upset, and then I thought... but now you can finally get a
date! Three years later I'm still waiting for a relationship that lasts longer
than a couple weeks.
Some Environment ...
Las Vegas isn't exactly the most open society to be gay in. We still have a
felony Homosexual Sodomy law. Never mind that more than half the entertainment
at the hotels is gay. All we have are bars. Our "Gay Pride" festivities are
held in a secluded park, way in the back behind lots of trees and very hard
to get to. I guess they couldn't find a closet that's big enough.
What am I doing wrong? The only guys that seem to like me are those I am not
attracted to. I end up feeling guilty about not likeing these people. If I go
to the bars with friends I have fun and meet no one. If I go alone and none
of my friends are already there I usually hold up a wall all night. Ok, like
everyone else, I'm a little nervous about approaching someone. I try to
approach them but the nerve isn't always there. Not one person that I have
dated has approached me. I've been told that I'm too small. I'm 5'11" and 147
pounds. What they mean is I'm not beefy. I've been told that I intimidate
people. What they mean is I have an opinion and I am educated. Is everyone
looking for a dumb beefy sex toy? I'm not ugly, or a geek. In fact, I think
I'm at least average. I don't have some long list of imposible requirements.
How many 25 year olds have never had any sort of relationship? I haven't had
a date since last October. A single one night date at that.
What really sucks rocks it the effect this has on my roomate. He cares for me
and I can see it hurt him when I get ignored in social situations. He's cute
and guys throw themselves at him. Sometimes people have approached me and
struck up a conversation that eventually lead to requesting an introduction
to my roomate. This really irks him. It makes me want to scream.
So what does the net.wisdom have to offer? How does one go about meeting those
people that don't go to bars in a town where gays meet no where else? (That I
know of.) Right now I go through cycles. For several months I wont go out
because I don't want to deal with the disapointment. Then I go out because I'm
sick of staying home and sick of being alone. Which leads to disapointment...
etc....
aargh!
Ok, enough net.bawling...
:)
___
\ \________________
| |_______________> InterNet: bali...@uns-helios.nevada.edu
/__/ //Ballistik// B0 c+ k s- e h+ r
Mick Washbrook
> I hate it when that happens! But I wouldn't change the rule for all the 5'5"
> mesomorphs in the city.. why should I when I've already got the best one!
>
Sniff. He's so sweet.
(Faint sounds of 40,000 soc.motssers retching. And a dog barking.)
--
Mick Washbrooke mi...@autodesk.com
otium cum dignitate
Owen Rowley
> Simple. I find that
> the best way to have a good time in a bar is to go with, or to meet,
> friends. I've never been good at picking people up cold, and I don't think
> I'm alone in this.
How about the "out with your lover" syndrome..
This somewhat relates to David c Rogers post last week about *rules* for
couples. Mick and I have a *rule* that when we're out with each other,
we go home with each other..this designed to eliminate any possibilty of
being ditched somewher along the evening for a *trick*.
I can go out to a bar by myself and stand there all night without anyone
paying the slightest attention to me, but let me go to the same place
with my lover, and I get cruised from multiple directions. Worse yet is when
some guy I've had on my lust-object list for years decides it's time to lock
gaze, and has to meet me. Oh yeah you exchange numbers , or meet at the
bathroom line, but the next time you see them they don't want to know you!
(mostly because now they know you have a lover!)
I hate it when that happens! But I wouldn't change the rule for all the 5'5"
mesomorphs in the city.. why should I when I've already got the best one!
LUX .. owen
--
D. Owen Rowley, {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen , { ow...@autodesk.com }
Aleister Crowley, when asked to define *The Tao* said,
"The result of subtracting the universe from itself"
Mick Washbrook
>
> I'm still young (22) and in college (Freshperson).
It shows.
> I guess it has to do with the Fact that Gay Relationships
> are few and the majority of the Gay Population have one
> night stands. I cannot understand the devaluation of sex
> among People.
uncommon gay relationships are. I certainly don't see how a "one
night stand" devalues sex.
> I really gotta Have it Tonite!
> Two Guys get together in order to satisfy their
> "Need" for sex and this results in sex becomming
> more like lighting a cigarette than Loving Someone.
> I am wondering if Sex, as we get older, turns into something
> of an addiction to, rather than something "special" between
> two loving and consenting individuals.
book. But I certainly won't be turning down any good-looking studs
who want to lick me all over.
> I think I'm afraid of starting a relationship, because a
> majority of them someday end. But I guess this is
> something I am going to have to live through (another
> stage of growing up).
stop you from getting up in the morning, does it? What did that guy say:
"'Tis better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all."
Believe me, Richard, you have a lot of growing up to do. Good luck.
John Corcoran
>what that is) relationship:
>
>SO?
you don't get arrested on the way home.
Rob Boldbear
> new to the Gay scene, coming out a couple of months ago).
And you expect to be proficient at it already that you're discouraged
with the outcome of your social interactions with strangers in bars?
> I guess it has to do with the Fact that Gay Relationships
> are few and the majority of the Gay Population have one
> night stands.
I think this depends upon the age of the people you are talking about.
Disappointing one-night stands as aborted attempts at relationships
have more to do with "learning the ropes" than with being gay.
> I really gotta Have it Tonite!
> Two Guys get together in order to satisfy their
> "Need" for sex and this results in sex becomming
> more like lighting a cigarette than Loving Someone.
But it is. Sex is a biological "drive", just like hunger and thirst.
For many people in their 20's, the drive is strong and experience and
wisdom in understanding sex, lust, romance, how to meet someone, how
to predict what they'll be like, etc. is weak.
> I am wondering if Sex, as we get older, turns into something
> of an addiction to, rather than something "special" between
> two loving and consenting individuals.
I think you got it backwards sorta. As one gets more experienced in life,
one sees sex for what it is and also comes to "need" it less.
--
Rob Boldbear email: r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US phone: (415) 827-4301
"The Was^ichus [Whites] did not care for each other the way our people did. ...
They would take everything from each other they could. ... They had forgotten
the earth was their mother. ... [They] even had the grass penned up."-Black Elk
Rob Boldbear
>> Perhaps you're not going to the right kind of bars.
> ... there isn't really any choice
> of bars to go to (specifically Gay Bars).
>...
> I go there usually every Friday and Saturday nights to
> Dance, play pool, and have a few drinks (Rum&Coke, Bud Lite,
> and Southern Comfort & OJ). You meet some people, but
> I don't really see a serious relationship developing with
> anyone I met so far (still waiting for that special person).
I think a lot of who you meet and how you view them has to do with
the perceptions and expectations one brings to bear on bar-going.
How you perceive people as interesting, how you go about
interacting one-on-one with someone who seems interesting, has
probably more to do with how you manage the situation than the actual
environment of the bar.
One thing that develops with practice and maturity is the ability to learn
enough about someone from interacting with them to know whether he is only
going to interest you for a one-night stand or if there are sufficient other
"connections" to predict something longer. After some 20 years of meeting
people in bars, it's simple to tell "he's good for just one fuck and I find
him interesting because I'm mainly horny" from "gee, he's a nice guy and
sexy to boot; we'll have fun in bed and spend some time together at least
the next day."
I can be very disconcerting to either misjudge one's own interest (e.g.
mistaking horniness for romantic/personal interest) or simply the other
person. With experience that sort of misjudgment happens less and less.
> I am not a person to go out and find me a one-night stand
> anyway. The Mental part of loving someone is more important
> to me than the Physical aspects. But, when the relationship
> developes to the point when we love each other enough to
> have sex, it's going to be something mutual that both of us
> will enjoy.
There's a real confusion here between the different events that can
follow meeting someone in a bar. A one-night stand can be undertaken
*as* a one-night stand, or it can be undertaken as an aborted "I'd
like to get to know this person." It's important to be aware, when
you go home with someone, if he is intending it to be a one-night
stand from the outset.
> I guess one-night stands can be fun for a while, but I don't
> see me (or anyone) living happily their whole lifetime doing it.
You phrase this as if engaging in one-night stands is some sort of major
activity that is a defining characteristic one's life. Perhaps when you
are in your early 20's it might be a major part of your social life.
Later on you'll probably see it as something you might just do every now
and then.
> So I am agreeing with Stephaine that the bars (Here) are
> mostly where people just come for "non-relationship" stuff.
It really depends.
Cornell Kinderknecht
>There have been reported sightings in our neighborhood of a
>white-haired, white-bearded, distinguished-looking gentleman
>who rushes out of nowhere into busy traffic pleading: "Come
>to our house for dinner! Please! I'll serve you tempura
>and white chocolate mousse!" The police has no clue to the
>identity of the Phantom of the Tempura so far, and I have no
>heart to turn Murray in after he promised not to do it again.
That's kind of how I remember it Ying-Da except said white-haired
man was rushing into the "pick-up" area at DFW airport offering
a Thanksgiving turkey dinner for jumping your car. Perhaps it
wasn't exactly as I make it out to sound here, Murray's dinner
was well worth waiting for. After three of Murray's homecooked
dinners, I must say that non-responding USENIXers really missed
out.
--- Cornell
Note: The Phantom of the Tempura has no knowledge of this posting
(at least not yet).
Rob Boldbear
> Simple. I find that
>the best way to have a good time in a bar is to go with, or to meet,
>friends. I've never been good at picking people up cold, and I don't think
>I'm alone in this.
On the other hand, if you're standing with a group of people, you'll never
get approached by someone who knows none of you. People are afraid enough
of being rejected let alone in front of a whole bunch of strangers.
Rob Boldbear
>In article <1991Apr17....@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US>
>r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (Rob Boldbear) writes:
>
>>I find dinner much better -
>>provides time to interact with the person, and leaves time afterwards
>>for things to take their course.
>
>I've had fairly good luck cooking the dinner myself.
Heavens! I didn't mean dinner cooked at home! A true way for me
to scare 'em off.
The waiters at my favorite Concord restaurant are on to me, though.
They see me there often, and each time with a different companion.
Heh heh heh heh.
Julie Dubbs
>So what does the net.wisdom have to offer? How does one go about meeting those
>people that don't go to bars in a town where gays meet no where else?
feeling you described of worrying over whether you should go out, going out
and spending time alone, being constantly reminded that you're less desirable
than your best friend. When I look back at
those times I realize I was in
a place I didn't really want to be and not acting naturally. For me, good
things happen when I'm doing something I enjoy and being myself. I've met
six SOs at work. Gay people are everywhere. If you spend your time doing
something that makes you happy, you won't return home feeling disappointed
and HE is sure to pop up. It's the ironic law of nature.
Julie
du...@unix.sri.com
James Roche
soc.motss, talk.religion.newage
References: <8...@genie.gene.com>
Keywords : intimacy, grief, loss
Summary : We walk along the shore together.
In article <8...@genie.gene.com> st...@genie.gene.com (Steve Williams)
writes:
>I cruised him on the beach (Lands' End) one glorious day in October
>1982. We were blissfully together from that moment on, until his
>recent death...
>
>Intimacy is addictive... I've been a long-term user, now I have gone
>cold turkey, and it hurts...
Yes, intimacy is addictive. I'm also recovering from a relationship
that has been crumbling before my eyes. I'm not sure that I shall
ever get over it, my love for the other man being so strong: but that's
another story.
Friendships are born and pass away; lovers we see in the morning
between the happiness of our arms. That is a special place. With
tomorrow's sun and the warm earth who knows what life shall bring.
In the bright skies above, the birds can sing, within our bones there
may be singing too. Before our eyes can be beginnings. Within our
minds a new heart.
Around you is life, within you is life and all we know and have is
here. That moment is with you always and never departs. Within its
walls are the seeds of strong trees and the winds of time. Nothing
is lost, nothing is taken.
We walk along the shore together laughing with the waves, knowing in a
moment that we have done this before and shall do again.
James
You have sung to me in my aloneness, and I of your longing have built a
tower in the sky. - Kahlil Gibran
[=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=]
!!trees!! james roche, 2a belgrade rd, hampton, middx, tw12 2az, uk
+44 (0)81-941 4262 jroche @cix.compulink.co.uk | @compulink.co.uk |
USA >>%c...@ukc.ac.uk<< | @cix.uucp | ..uunet!cix.compulink.co.uk!jroche
[=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=]
Jess Anderson
>We were blissfully together from that moment
>on, until his recent death.
>Now I find myself single again, but in a different world.
>Maybe I've forgotten how, or maybe the rules are different
>now, but I don't know where to go/what to do to meet new
>people.
It's hard to get free of the past, especially when we have
such good reasons to cherish parts of it and hold them dear.
But since it's true that nothing can abscond with our
memories in any case, the ticket would seem to be to use our
natural creative talents to fashion -- right out of thin air
-- a new life for ourselves. This is the time for
improvisation, not observance of rules.
>Intimacy is addictive... I've been a long-term user, now I
>have gone cold turkey, and it hurts. I'm not talking about
>grief (that's another story), but loss of intimacy. I need
>it, but not only don't I know where to find it, I know that
>it takes years to develop (at least to the extent I knew).
I think the idea that intimacy is addictive is a useful,
valid image, a basically positive idea about love and
mutuality. Possibly it will help in finding new
opportunities not to think of it in terms of the
relationships you've known in the past; instead, you have
the opportunity to develop intimacies that are rather unlike
those that came before. One thing is for sure: we have
*enormous* capacity for variety in creating our lives.
<> The only abnormality is the incapacity to love.
<> -- Anais Nin
Jess Anderson
In article <1991Apr17.1...@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu>
dmb...@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Dan Madison Byrd) writes:
>Tommy and I were together for 4 years
>before he married, and continued to see each other after he
>married (yes, his wife knew; I made sure she did). He died
>just a few months ago of an inoperable brain tumor. The
>thought of getting back into the 'dating pool' makes me
>positively queasy, and I really don't even know *how*.
My reasons are surely quite different, but the result is not
so different. I guess I think I know how, but some part of
my inner organization has changed itself around or
something. I just couldn't go back into the bar scene again.
I think Julie Dubbs just posted some very wise remarks in
response to another person who feels largely defeated by not
getting things going: it's the looking that gets ya. The
first requirement, I think, is to be a happy you in what you
do; since gay people are everywhere, a promising
intersection of paths is likely to happen at some
appropriate time. Anxiety and worry are big enemies here,
and it's important to accept and validate as needed the
qualities of your person and your present life.
>After so many years of intimacy with him and several other
>dearly departed friends, I get confused trying to form
>relationships with other people. I know what to aim for,
>but reaching that goal will take so long.
It could, but try not to focus on a too-distant objective;
what's happening just now is really the only thing, and
because of that, the most important thing. By looking to
outcomes, we risk missing the processes.
>There are also
>many stigmata attached when a close friend/lover dies, I
>have frequently find myself really beleiving I'll be alone
>for the rest of my life...
No doom-forecasting, it's bad for your mind. To deal with
stigma (the right plural looks kind of odd nowadays), let
yourself unsubscribe from concerns of that nature.
>Maybe we could form our own support group...
The Disarray of Loss, one of the real hard things, I think.
Good luck with all your projects.
<> The human body is an instrument for the production of art
<> in the life of the human soul. -- Alfred North Whitehead
Michael Bryan
>
>This is something I've always been curious about...Does anyone go
>to a bar to meet someone and go out to dinner or a movie or
>something {i.e. a 'normal' first date}, but not have sex the first night?
>
Yes! I've only had a couple of relationships lasting over a month, but
both of them fell into the "wait for sex" category. Eduardo and I met
at a bar, danced, enjoyed ourselves, and exchanged phone numbers. A few
days later we went to dinner and a movie. We went dancing, went to a
circus, and walking in the park. After about two weeks, things took a
turn for the more serious side, and thus began a three month relationship.
Arthur and I met in a bar, and just talked all night. Somewhere in the
evening we moved to a more quiet casual bar, with a romantic fireplace.
Neither of us was looking for anything more than a drink and a good talk
with somebody. (Me because I was still depressed about Eduardo, but that's
another story.) We saw each other a couple of times a week after that,
for dinner, plays, or walks on the beach. Not too suprisingly, I fell in
love with him, and he with me. Six weeks after meeting him, we went out
an a Valentine's Day date, and while on the beach we finally drop all the
barriers and decide to react to the building feelings. That was two months
ago, and we're still together. Perhaps not a very long time by some standards,
but that doesn't matter to me; I'm hoping for several more months to come...
At least for me, two things seem true: (1) You don't find yourself in a
relationship unless you're not looking for one (that damned catch 22!),
and (2), The slower things build, the longer they last. Your mileage
may vary of course, but that seems to be how it works for me.
--
Mike Bryan (mbr...@netcom.com, {claris,apple}!netcom!mbryan)
W:408/733-6565 H:408/738-2479 Sunnyvale, CA
"Does this sentence remind you of Agatha Christie?"
mi...@reed.edu
>else originated the thread...
hahaha.. I love soc.motss.
>So what does the net.wisdom have to offer? How does one go about meeting those
>people that don't go to bars in a town where gays meet no where else?
I've lived in two cities in my life: Houston, TX and Portland, OR. In
Houston, I never did find any gay life other than the bars.. Well, you
could cruise the museums or the House of Pies, but thats not quite the
same thing. In Portland there is a wonderful variety of non-bar
activities for men and women. There's at least one outdoors group
(skiing, hiking, biking..), a group for people to walk their dogs,
various social dinnerclub type groups, even a group for lesbian and
gay people who like cars.. Its terrific.
This seems to fulfill at least two things for me. One, most states
don't consider it safe for a person my age to be near where alcohol is
being sold, so I can't legally go to a bar. Two, the whole meat
market bar scene isn't my thing. If I go out on a hiking group with
gay men, there's more to do than sit around and drink alcohol and
breathe other people's smoke. There's an activity thats going on:
hiking. That in itself is rewarding enough that the whole mating game
becomes much less important, and for me, more natural.
What does one do in a city where there AREN'T these nonbar avenues? I
don't know.. Why not start one? Or, get politically involved if you
are so inclined. Half the fun of Queer Nation is the beautiful people.
Stephen Allen Chappell
>
>My current SO and I met in a very modern, high-tech way; on the "CB"
>interactive chat lines on CompuServe.
I've had two SO's... the first I met on a local BBS, the second SO I met
at a party hosted by someone I met through the computer.
Fortunately or Unfortunately, I don't see the trend ending any time soon.
[] Urso
--
[] Stephen Allen Chappell a.k.a. "Urso" <cco...@prism.gatech.edu>
[] 3619-G Meadowglen Village Lane
Doraville, GA 30340-5673, United States
[] NBCS 1.8: B5 f t w+ cd e+ r-
David R. Preston
< are few and the majority of the Gay Population have one
< night stands.
Bullshit.
Laura Creighton
>In article <1991Apr14.1...@cs.utk.edu> kee...@cs.utk.edu (Timothy Keeling) writes:
>>To anyone who is currently or has been in a long-term (you decide
>>what that is) relationship:
>>Did you meet your SO in a bar? If not, where did you meet your SO?
>
>the both of them to dinner. Said friend finked out and skipped dinner.
>The other man who came to dinner hasn't left since 1979...
>
>--
>Steve Dyer
>dy...@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
>dy...@arktouros.mit.edu, dy...@hstbme.mit.edu
Maybe that freind was no fink?
Laura
Laura Creighton
She was 19. We had five very happy years which were only ended
by her death. I am happy now, ten years later, but still think that
D&D, for those of you know like to play involved games -- can I
reach you leather people out there -- is still a wonderful
for me place....
Laura
Roger B.A. Klorese
>But I certainly won't be turning down any good-looking studs
>who want to lick me all over.
Let me check my calendar...
Dan R. Greening
>mi...@Autodesk.COM (Mick Washbrook) writes:
>>But I certainly won't be turning down any good-looking studs
>>who want to lick me all over.
>
>Let me check my calendar...
Motor Trend magazine has nominated the new curvaceous Klorese studster
to its top ten list. If aesthetics top your priorities, and you don't
mind other enthusiasts who want to climb in with you, it marks a smart
selection. The new model is trim and tight for speed, comes complete
with fuzzy dice, shag carpet on the dash, and a stiff manual shift,
according to reports from those who have ridden it. (This critic,
with a priceless musclecar of his own, reports third-person.) The National
Highway Safety Board has not yet announced its findings, but initial
reports are favorable, with three-point restraints and a driver's side
latex air-bag. A disorienting but pleasing transformation from the
luxury liner of earlier years. Definitely not for the faint-of-heart.
Bravo to the Klorese Corporation, for its bold and daring entry into
the marketplace!
--
____
\ /Dan Greening Software Transformation 1601 Saratoga-Sunnyvale Rd
\/ dgr...@cs.ucla.edu (408) 973-8081 x313 Cupertino, CA 95014
John Corcoran
Anderson) says:
>
>The smart little dinner seems to have gone the way of
>bell-bottom trousers and the hula hoop. I've only had two
>entirely decent home-cooked meals served to me in years, one
>at Clay Bond's, the other at Ying-Da Lee's.
>
You guys make me feel so behind the times. :-)
Jess Anderson
In article <91108.1108...@MAINE.BITNET>
CORC...@MAINE.BITNET (John Corcoran) writes:
Take heart. Carry on. I must admit that I still have one
great meal left in me to cook (ever see Babette's Feast, a
*fabulous* Danish film, in which the art of good food brought
tears to my eye?). I have this one bottle of Chateau Latour
premier grand cru classe' 1974. That is a bottle of such
majesty that it would be a real sin to drink it with
anything other than the best food I can do. One of these
days, for the right man ...
<> I never cease to get a chuckle when I read a personal ad
<> that says "straight acting." I always think, "god, that
<> doesn't sound like much fun, does it?"
<> -- Mike Hennahane (mich...@Neon.Stanford.EDU)
Rob Boldbear
>Las Vegas isn't exactly the most open society to be gay in. We still have a
>felony Homosexual Sodomy law. Never mind that more than half the entertainment
>at the hotels is gay. All we have are bars. Our "Gay Pride" festivities are
>held in a secluded park, way in the back behind lots of trees and very hard
>to get to. I guess they couldn't find a closet that's big enough.
If you think that the environment (rather than say what you bring to bear
on it) is largely responsible for your unhappiness, maybe you should consider
moving to a more amenable area.
>What am I doing wrong? The only guys that seem to like me are those I am not
>attracted to. I end up feeling guilty about not likeing these people. If I go
>to the bars with friends I have fun and meet no one. If I go alone and none
>of my friends are already there I usually hold up a wall all night. Ok, like
>everyone else, I'm a little nervous about approaching someone. I try to
You're like 80% of us, then. :-)
>approach them but the nerve isn't always there. Not one person that I have
>dated has approached me. I've been told that I'm too small. I'm 5'11" and 147
>pounds. What they mean is I'm not beefy. I've been told that I intimidate
>people. What they mean is I have an opinion and I am educated.
Sometimes comments such as the one's people have made to you are
rationalizations, sometimes they are indirect ways of giving feedback,
and sometimes they are direct. It can be tough deciding which is actually
the case with any particular one.
Maybe you are skinnier than most people there are attracted to. If that's the
case, maybe you do want to consider joining a gym and muscling up some.
Maybe you *do* intimidate people - maybe your opinions come across as
more opinionated, or showing off your eduction. Try and imagine what your
behavior looks like to the other guy. Generally, when trying to make a
good impression on a stranger, it's *not* a good idea to demonstrate strong
opinions.
> Is everyone
>looking for a dumb beefy sex toy?
Do I have to answer than honestly? :-) :-) :-) (See my next posting for more
on this.)
>How many 25 year olds have never had any sort of relationship? I haven't had
>a date since last October. A single one night date at that.
Since you think it might have something to do with the locale you live
in you might want to do some honest comparisons of yourself and those
who are more sucessful in the sex and romance area. What are the actual
differences? Are they things you can't change, or are they things you
could change, such as attitude and self-presentation? If the former,
maybe you need a geographic change. If the latter, maybe you should
examine your options wrt changing yourself. Should you join a gym and
put on some muscle? Should I be more diplomatic when meeting strangers?
Or should you continue to be as you are and put up with things as they
are?
>What really sucks rocks it the effect this has on my roomate. He cares for me
>and I can see it hurt him when I get ignored in social situations. He's cute
>and guys throw themselves at him. Sometimes people have approached me and
>struck up a conversation that eventually lead to requesting an introduction
>to my roomate. This really irks him. It makes me want to scream.
??Get an uglier roommate?? Or learn to live with it. (I've been on both
ends of this sort of situation.)
> For several months I wont go out
>because I don't want to deal with the disapointment. Then I go out because I'm
>sick of staying home and sick of being alone. Which leads to disapointment...
>etc....
Maybe you want to focus more on your longer-term best interests and
decide what you're going to do based on them.
--
Rob Boldbear email: r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US phone: (415) 827-4301
"The Was^icus [Whites] did not care for each other the way our people did. ...
Rob Boldbear
> Is everyone looking for a dumb beefy sex toy?
This reminds me of a conversation I once had with a coworker. We were
talking about having had big and stoopid boyfriends. I commented that I
had never dated someone big and stoopid. Until I remembered Steve N.
Steve N. was big - 6'4", I think, big hands, size 16 cowboy boots and a
dick in proportion. Steve was stoopid but he didn't realize it and
consequently he was a bit arrogant; he didn't realize how stoopid he
was.
Steve lived with me most of that summer he redid my kitchen from top to
bottom. I had thought that this would be wonderful, those big hands and
arms of his. Those big pointy cowboy boots. And that huge appendage.
Turns out his stoopidity and arrogance got in the way and he was a bore
in bed. That big dick of his felt more like a piece of rubber than
human flesh. Oh, well.
At first blush, I'd think that Clay would have enjoyed him physically.
But now that I think about it, I think Clay would have a hard time
keeping from laughing at the fool long enough to do anything with his
huge dick.
Any more big and stoopid stories? Does this belong in alt.sex.motss?
Too bad.
Ali Ishtiaq
In article <1991Apr14.1...@cs.utk.edu>, kee...@cs.utk.edu
(Timothy Keeling) writes:
|>
|> To anyone who is currently or has been in a long-term (you decide
|> what that is) relationship:
|>
|> Did you meet your SO in a bar? If not, where did you meet your
|> SO?
|>
|> exist. Is the "one night stand" just a fact of life that I should
|> get use to?
|>
I have been involved for the last 5+ years with my partner whom I met
through a mutual friend. It wasn't a setup as we met in a party-type
situation. However he was a very good friend of a good friend of a very
good friend of mine (if you can decipher that! basically good-friend twice
removed). That pretty much said that our interests are going to coincide
for the most part, which they did. The additional fact that he is very cute
just did it for me. I still don't know what did it for him, but why ask
when you have a good thing going?
Despite some horror stories I have heard about relationship ads I have had
a 2-year long relationship previously with someone I met through an ad. Can't
say its been a successful relationship but it had some good points and at
least I learned a lot more about relationships.
My experience with meeting people in bars have never led to relationships that
lasted for more than couple of months at most. Its not that people who go to
bars only believe in one-night stands, but simply that the criteria most people
use to meet someone in a bar may not be the criteria that are important to
build a relationship.
Basically I believe that the more one increases their friend circle the more
chances of meeting someone one may be compatible with. Similarly going to a
bar with firends is probably better than going alone, because one can likely
meet the friends of friends. Of course it takes away the fun of cruising
anonymously.
- Ali
Markus Kiser
related to it.)
Thought for a day
I woke up this morning
just one of these days
one is not particularly happy
about anything
Then
down at the bus stop
there was this man
Both of us just waiting
for the bus to arrive
and looking at each other
and looking again
I was just not in the mood
Now that I think about it
How different could this day have been?
--markus
--
Markus Kiser | "Last night you licked my ass
Institut fuer Informatik | and now you are complaining
Universitaet Zuerich | that I used your teethbrush!?"
ki...@ifi.unizh.ch | (loosely based on a comic by Ralf Koenig)
Greg Parkinson
|> >In article <1991Apr17.2...@macc.wisc.edu> ande...@dogie.macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
|> >>Hm, maybe that's why love is rare -- I've quit cooking.
|> >
|> >Hmnn, you like your love rare and your sex raw, eh? :-)
|> >
|> >Is this a trend? In the late 70's and early 80's, we cooked and cooked,
|> >and had people over for dinner rather frequently. These days, it seems
|> >like we've no time, and neither do our guests. Our shameful addiction to the
|> >microwave has gotten so bad that our gas oven was broken for six months
|> >before either of us noticed it.
|> >
|> >--
|> >Steve Dyer
|>
I laughed heartily at this, then went home and discovered that the oven
in the apartment I've been living in for nearly 2 months doesn't work -
apparently never has.
I have an excuse, I live near the largest collection of Cuban-Chinese
restaurants in Manhattan, probably in the world.
--
Greg Parkinson (GregBear) Phone: 212-657-7814
Citibank Fax: 212-825-8607
111 Wall Street E-Mail: uunet!ibism!glp
New York, NY 10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Stephen Allen Chappell
>The smart little dinner seems to have gone the way of
>bell-bottom trousers and the hula hoop. I've only had two
>entirely decent home-cooked meals served to me in years, one
>at Clay Bond's, the other at Ying-Da Lee's.
I'm afraid that is something a lot of my generation has lost.
I know growing up with two working parents, dinner for us was
something to hurry up and do, so we ended up eating out a lot,
as well as eating a lot of TV dinners, sandwiches, cup o' soups
and the like... and gee... people wonder why I can't cook.
John Passaniti
> In an article <1991Apr14.1...@cs.utk.edu>
> kee...@cs.utk.edu (Timothy Keeling) writes:
>
> >To anyone who is currently or has been in a long-term
> >(you decide what that is) relationship:
>
> >Did you meet your SO in a bar? If not, where did you
> >meet your SO?
Phil and I met twice-- both on BBS's. The first time,
neither of us knew the other was gay. I had called his BBS,
read his Christian rhetoric and replied with some Atheist
rhetoric. Time passes, and we both end up calling a local
gay BBS. He poked his head in sheepishly in a public
conference, and I verbally bit it off, thinking he was
still a Fundie fruitcake. He wasn't-- he got better.
I finally worked up enough courage to call him (he was
to be my first /real/ date, my prior attempts were /surreal/
dates). We talked on the phone for nineteen hours-- the
only interruption was me having to get ready to go to work
in the morning. I knew I was sufficiently distracted by
all this that going to work would be nothing more than
sitting in front of my terminal and staring at the cursor,
but I went anyway.
I rushed home, and waited. He finally arrived--
late-- and we went to dinner. Phil was (is) a great big
bear of a guy, with wonderfully expressive eyes and a voice
that melts mortal men. Dinner was interesting; we ate a
fish fry at his grandmother's house. After dinner, we went
back to his place, where we did what you might expect two
young gay men to do while watching the original "Phantom Of
The Opera" on public television.
As for Phil, he had met all his prior boyfriends
through BBS's and networks. He met someone on a system
called QuantamLink in California, and so of course buys jet
fare to the other coast to meet him. Then it was someone in
New York City (at least within our time zone). Then someone
in Ohio, followed by an aborted attempt with someone in
Texas. Phil didn't seem to be constrained by distance.
In any case, we didn't meet in a bar, and never would
have. We both don't drink, and what experiences we have
had in bars haven't been good. While I'm sure some people
like the bars, we didn't.
--
John Passaniti - via FidoNet node 1:260/230
UUCP: {smart-host}!ur-valhalla!rochgte!201!jpass
INTERNET: jp...@f201.n260.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Laura Creighton
>> (2) you think today's tots know what well done
>>even *is*? Hah!! :-)
>>
>
>That's because they all think "its mainly because of the meat"! :)
>
>--
>______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Chris Stephenson dis...@turing.toronto.edu
>"If I could have my way I would be running with the circus, I would be taming
>all the lions. There'd be no denyin' I was brave..and crazy." Melissa Etheridge
This is a very funny but Toronto specific joke -- Dominion (?!?) a now defunct
Toronto Supermarket used that as their slogan for many years.....
Giggle giggle giggle....
laura
-
Stephen Allen Chappell
> I have an excuse, I live near the largest collection of Cuban-Chinese
> restaurants in Manhattan, probably in the world.
Speaking of odd combinations, imagine going to a Chinese restaraunt
where all the workers are Chinese and have thick Southern (USA) accents.
And, also when in Atlanta, try out Frijolero's... a great Hippie/Bohemian
/Mexican restaraunt here in Atlanta... nothing like eating a 6" x 12"
burrito surrounded by plastic figurines of Barney Rubble, Elvis, and
GI Joe.
Well, you get the idea... Atlanta being a great culture clash location,
we have great "culture clash" foods. :-)
[] Urso
Did I mention Jewish/Japanese food, too?
Owen Rowley
> restaurants in Manhattan, probably in the world.
Upper west side?
Arroz con Frio anyone ??
:-)
LUX .. owen
--
D. Owen Rowley, {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen , { ow...@autodesk.com }
Aleister Crowley, when asked to define *The Tao* said,
"The result of subtracting the universe from itself"
Owen Rowley
> In any case, we didn't meet in a bar, and never would
> have. We both don't drink, and what experiences we have
> had in bars haven't been good. While I'm sure some people
> like the bars, we didn't.
Interesting , But you mean you don't imbibe alcoholic beverages really..
right?
I was in the bar bizznezz for many years.. It was a family thang, and
I kinda grew up in them. So for me a barr is like a living room, and its
just not unusual to strike up a conversation with someone, because when
you've spent ten years doing it as a proffesion it comes easily.
Let me assure you that bar owners have no vested interest in getting
you drunk. They usually make more per-drink profit on soft drinks and juices
th they do on the alcohol. It's easier to bury income from soft drinks and
mixers ( for tax purposes). People don't throw up from drinking soft drinks
and juices. Its no fun watching people you've come to know and like get
caught up in alcoholism and do harm to themselves and others.
.. and on and on..
One of the things I've noticed here in California, is that there is no
stigma attached to going to bars and drinking beverages that are not
alcohol bearing.
A good clean place that offers a social atmosphere along with opportunity to
meet others of like mind is a valuable resource. Trashing the place because
some individuals have less self control, or choose to get drunk is not a
mature act. I used to get lots of abuse because I would shut people off
when I felt that I no longer wanted to participate in the process of getting
them shitfaced. Sure they could probably walk to the next place down the
street and get another drink from someone else, but not from me..
Don't paint all Gin-mills and bars with a sordid brush.. These places are
what the management makes 'em.
I owned one Bar in Providence RI.. ( the cuckoos nest) which acheived
legendary status during part of the 70's.. years after it was closed people
still talked about it as if it were a hallmark of what a social meeting
place should be. ...
I'd like to open a new place here in SF .. I think I'll call it
"A clean dim-lighted place for sex"
LUX .. owen
P.S. Powledge
> In article <12...@ibism.uucp>, g...@ibism.UUCP (Greg Parkinson) writes:
> > I have an excuse, I live near the largest collection of Cuban-Chinese
> > restaurants in Manhattan, probably in the world.
> Upper west side?
> Arroz con Frio anyone ??
Naw, make mine _ropa de viejo_ (sp?). With yellow rice and black beans,
please. Yum! (Sounds of having died and gone to heaven. :^)
--
||| Polly Powledge
||| uucp: {allegra,att}!hrmso!psp
||| Internet: p...@hrmso.ATT.COM,
||| P.S.Po...@ATT.COM
Paul Isaacs
--->In article <12...@ibism.uucp>, g...@ibism.UUCP (Greg Parkinson) writes:
--->> I have an excuse, I live near the largest collection of Cuban-Chinese
--->> restaurants in Manhattan, probably in the world.
--->
--->Upper west side?
Doubt it. I'm betting on Chelsea, my old neighborhood.
(La Chinita Linda, La Favorita, La Chinita, Havana ).
Rob Boldbear
>Basically I believe that the more one increases their friend circle the more
>chances of meeting someone one may be compatible with.
And how do you increase your circle of friends? Everyone I know lives
two counties away and can't be bothered to come this far even for an
occasional party (and consequently a whole bunch of acquaintances just
remain that). Around here the only gay institutions are twink bars
(with a whole different socioeconomic group of people mainly 15 years
younger than me), and a gay church (no comment needed). There's little
opportunity to make friends with other gay people here. Yeah, this is
a gripe.
> Similarly going to a
>bar with firends is probably better than going alone, because one can likely
>meet the friends of friends.
If your friends know any other people there, that is.
Ron Rizzo
>
>attracted to. I end up feeling guilty about not likeing these people. If I go
>to the bars with friends I have fun and meet no one. If I go alone and none
>of my friends are already there I usually hold up a wall all night.
Welcome to the Life. I think what you've described is very common, only
people are usually unwilling to talk about it. My (unsolicited) advice
is don't let it get to you. Lower your expectations and get on with
other parts of your life. I know this is obnoxious advice; I for one
have never welcomed it or been able to follow it. But I HAVE lowered
myself into some nasty depressions over my social life in years past.
I particularly detest the gay dictum, if you're looking too hard (in
some versions, if you're looking at all), you'll never find. I've
always considered this little gem rank superstition, contrary to
the few proven methods that work (ie, adopting a Plan, aggressively
hunting, etc.). But the "few proven methods" are quixotic; sometimes
they work, sometimes they just give you exercise, like a rat's treadmill.
And blind fortune certainly has played a role in my life.
What I've heard about Nevada from various gaypeople isn't terribly
encouraging. Las Vegas is still a pretty small town when compared
to the west coast cities. You could conform to the Wildean wisdom
and disappear into San Francisco.
I don't think there's any easy credible answer, other than to make
sure worry about the problem doesn't become the problem.
Regards,
Ron
Ronald Rizzo
Tezcatlipocateopixque
>And how do you increase your circle of friends? Everyone I know lives
>two counties away
Pardon me, Mr. Rob. I'm awfully afraid to tell you that Indiana, the
pus within the zit on the ass of the world, is just a bit further from
Mt. Diablo than two counties.
> and can't be bothered to come this far
I wish it were a case of not being able to be bothered, m'dear man.
--
"Are you saying that I am judging those who use defamatory language
or make judgemental statements?"
-- Jeff Shaevel
Chuck Meares
>
>ljoh...@triton.unm.edu writes:
>>
>>Whats happening in Gay culture? Are Lover relationships
>>still around? Is it everyone out for himself/herself? I
>>seldom, if ever, see any postings about gay relationships on
>>Soc.motss, and I`m curious as to why this is. Whats happening
>>with everyone? Is this a taboo subject????
>
>>Lee
>
>Very good question.
>
>I have told myself so many times that "this time will be
>different" and gone to the bar, only to leave, have sex with some
>guy you just met 2-3 hours ago and HOPE that this time it won't
>turn out like all the others. Hope that is, that it won't be the
>"I'll call you..." only to never hear from them again.
>
>I go to the bar, everyone stands around the dance floor and looks
>at everyone else. Most, I suspect, would just love to talk to
>someone, yet nobody initiates contact until they feel comfortable
>enough (due to beer) to approach whoever they have had their eye
>on.
>To anyone who is currently or has been in a long-term (you decide
>what that is) relationship:
>
>Did you meet your SO in a bar? If not, where did you meet your
>SO?
>
>exist. Is the "one night stand" just a fact of life that I should
>get use to?
>
I DID meet my SO in a bar. We met at the Rawhide (Country Western bar out
in the Valley). He came over and asked me to dance. We talked a while and
he asked me out on a lunch date for the following Saturday. We didn't even
have sex until the fifth date.
To make a long story short, we've known each other for a little over 2 years
and will be celebrating our second anniversery on July 12.
***************************************************************************
Chuck Meares
Ashton-Tate
Northern California Product Center
System Administration
***************************************************************************