H.I.M.: THE CATALOG FOR THE GAY MAN
Ron Buckmire
I got this in the mail on Monday. Basically it is an unabashedly queer version
of the ever-popular INTERNATIONAL MALE and UNDERGEAR catalogs.
Full of cute beefy guys, scantily clad. Comes to your home for free.
Sort of West Hollywood meets Mars attire.
Dial 1-800-446-1646.
Who could ask for anything more?
---
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735.
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buc...@rpi.edu buc...@rpitsmts.bitnet
"Birth Control is disgusting--people using each other for pleasure."
Randall Terry, Chairman, Operation Rescue.
Harry Foster
>
>I got this in the mail on Monday. Basically it is an unabashedly queer version
>of the ever-popular INTERNATIONAL MALE and UNDERGEAR catalogs.
>
>Full of cute beefy guys, scantily clad. Comes to your home for free.
>Sort of West Hollywood meets Mars attire.
>
>Dial 1-800-446-1646.
>
>Who could ask for anything more?
>
the term *male* order. ;-)
--
Harry Foster fos...@convex.com
"You get a hard-on when you look at it."
-Knoxville Museum of Art director RICHARD MUHLBERGER,
on how he distinguishes pornography from art.
Robert Coren
>
> I got this in the mail on Monday. Basically it is an unabashedly queer version
> of the ever-popular INTERNATIONAL MALE and UNDERGEAR catalogs.
>
> Full of cute beefy guys, scantily clad. Comes to your home for free.
> Sort of West Hollywood meets Mars attire.
>
> Dial 1-800-446-1646.
>
> Who could ask for anything more?
Well, some around here could. I amused myself briefly with the idea of
sending a copy to George Madison, just to rile him. (Did I tell you
about my inexplicably failed coal business? Those folks in Newcastle
just *wouldn't* buy.)
[Hint for those who haven't seen the catalogue: none of these men show
signs of *ever* having had any hair below about nose level.]
Danny Ingram
things about it. One, some of the models are the same as in International
Male. I wonder if they care about being in this new catalog or if its just
another modeling job for them. The second interesting thing is, how did they
know who to send it to? Does anyone know if this was a blanket mailing, or is
there a list somewhere out there with family members on it?
Danny Ingram
Arnold M Zwicky
jacques and i have been enjoying the catalog for several days now.
some of its products are simply handsome, some are straightforwardly
political (i will, of course, get a couple more t-shirts for my
Publicly Queer colection), and a lot are over-the-top wild.
there are several photos in which even the h.i.m. models can't quite
bring it off; they look rather absurd and uncomfortable in cast-off
bits from medieval-dungeon movies. but mostly it's a hoot.
the freedom rings suspenders on a bare torso look *just fine*. well,
on that particular bare torso.
somehow this catalog has ended up on the table next to our dining
room table, which means that we glance at the cover - with its
two male models projecting That Look at us - during meals. this
causes j to pick it up occasionally and riffle through it. he
yearns for the sheets in intense primary colors (j is a pushover
for beautiful sheets), but worries that they'd bleed to patchy
pastels in a couple of washings. does anyone have these sheets?
speaking of bleaching to pastels, our rainbow windsock gradually faded
to subtle pastel - the intense purple stripe was the most delicate of
lavenders - over a couple of years, without our really noticing, until
one day last month when we both realized that you could barely tell
the colors apart. j then went out and got a freshly flagrant
replacement. (the local sporting goods omni-store still carries
them. by the dozens, actually, though they've now gone into
storage for the winter.)
oh yes, the catalog. excellent in-your-face soft porn.
arnold (laying in a supply of william wegman weimaraner xmas
cards - available from amfar and from osu's wexner center
for the arts - for the holiday season, though no cards are
likely to go out until late january, life being the way it is)
Ellen Keyne Seebacher
>the freedom rings suspenders on a bare torso look *just fine*. well,
>on that particular bare torso.
Uh-huh. I found a couple of other pictures even more *fine*, though.
>[Jacques] yearns for the sheets in intense primary colors (j is a
>pushover for beautiful sheets)
That's me, on both counts. What H.I.M. doesn't have (though I can
hardly blame them, given that nobody else does either) is California
King sheets. Does anyone know where I can get Cal Kings either:
(a) well below retail (most places have to special-order, and my
flea-market-loving heart rebels at the expense), or
(b) so beautiful that I won't care about the expense?
Saying "California" is acceptable, providing you name a place that
does mail orders. :)
Thanks,
-- __
Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/ el...@midway.uchicago.edu
"When I woke up this morning my girlfriend asked me, `Did you sleep
good?' I said, `No, I made a few mistakes.'" --Steven Wright
Ellen Keyne Seebacher
catalogue. I excuse myself by noting that I was going to post an
original article on the subject, but Ron Buckmire beat me to it. :)]
Danny Ingram asks:
>The second interesting thing is, how did they know who to send it to?
>Does anyone know if this was a blanket mailing, or is there a list
>somewhere out there with family members on it?
Oh, it is most _certainly_ a mailing list: Shocking Gray's, probably.
(I've also received mail on _In the Life_, the Holocaust Museum, and
other queer topics from the same list.)
<Brief rant mode ON>
Talk about dyke invisibility! Do these twitheads just assume
that anyone with interest in things queer feels like drooling
over male bodies?
Either they forgot about lesbians, or they assume that everyone
in the 90's is in a trendy mixed-sex bisexual relationship. How
very charming.
<Brief rant mode OFF>
Of course, I _am_ in a trendy mixed-sex bisexual relationship, and I
had to tear the catalogue away from my SO to stare at the testicle shot,
probably a first in free catalogues mailed to _our_ household. :)
PS: I'm buying him the red, uh, pants in the lower-right hand corner
of page <mumble>, the ones under letter G. Yum.
-- __
Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/ el...@midway.uchicago.edu
"We don't HAVE culture, dear, we ARE culture."
--Donald L. Hardy (dh...@lehigh.edu), on queerfolk
Ellen Keyne Seebacher
>George Madison, just to rile him.
Oh, yes! In fact, I _did_ show the catalogue to another net.bear, and
he riffled through it for about ten seconds before saying "no beards"
and tossing it back. I don't think he even had time to notice the lack
of body hair. :)
Of course, when I sat him down and showed him the leather harness jacket,
he changed his mind....
My other complaint about this catalogue, on an intellectual level
(my tastes in men are fairly broad, and I enjoyed looking at many
of the H.I.M. models, hair or no), was the utter lack of diversity:
one black man, one East Asian. Rather pathetic.
Charles S. Collins 726-9461
>what ron said...
>
>jacques and i have been enjoying the catalog for several days now.
>some of its products are simply handsome, some are straightforwardly
>political (i will, of course, get a couple more t-shirts for my
>Publicly Queer colection), and a lot are over-the-top wild.
>
Granted, the bodies are beautiful. But does anyone react to the "fuck you"
attitude conveyed by the facial expressions. Occasionally one of the models
will attempt a smile which, for me, effectively melts the ice.
I see enough attitude at the gym, thank you very much. And into the recycle
bin goes my "Undergear" catalog.
I, too, wonder how they got my name.
--
Chuck Collins Product Software Engineering
ch...@pixel.kodak.com Eastman Kodak Company
(716)726-9461 901 Elmgrove Road
Rochester, NY 14653-5811
Tim Fogarty
In article <76...@hydra.gatech.EDU>, danny....@business.gatech.edu (Danny Ingram) writes:
|>
|>I got one of these catalogs, too. I think there are several interesting
|>things about it. One, some of the models are the same as in International
|>Male. I wonder if they care about being in this new catalog or if its just
|>another modeling job for them.
Gasp ! You mean that there are straight boys in those International Male
cataloges ?
--
Tim Fogarty
Sys Man and Sys Admin for the EGSE in the POCC at JSC for SRL-1, STS-59
FOG...@SIR-C.JPL.NASA.GOV
C.J.K.
a while back). There are a couple of interesting things about
ordering it though. First I saw the catalog advertised in Advocate
and then Genre. At that time, I hadn't really associated it with
International Male. Then, I received an order from International
Male and along with all that advertising junk you get in the package
there was this card for H.I.M. I was a bit surprised to see it that
"freely" advertised.
I looked at the card I got and compared it with the other ads that
I'd seen. They all had the same phone number BUT they all had
different extension numbers. When I called, some operator-guy
answered and I requested one of the extension numbers and the
operator didn't transfer me. He just took my address and told me
I'd receive a catalog in about six weeks. So then, I began
wondering why all the extension numbers. Perhaps it is to log where
the person saw the ad for marketing purposes (to avoid asking the
question "Where did you see our ad?").
--- Cornell
Mick Washbrook
> of the ever-popular INTERNATIONAL MALE and UNDERGEAR catalogs.
You mean that INTERNATONAL MALE and UNDERGEAR *aren't* unabashedly queer?
I mean, the straight guys are practically climbing over each other to
*grab* those sheer lace workout nightie-cum-casual "thingies".
--
Death to all fanatics!!
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Arnold M Zwicky
h.i.m. catalog. well, it *is* billed as "the catalog for the gay
man".
so here are some other catalogs that come to our house...
first, an old favorite i've recommended here before: ladyslipper, in
durham, n.c. music by [in various senses of "by"] women: women's
music, comedy, new age, jewish, african, middle eastern, latin
american, country, folk, rock, r&b, gospel, blues, jazz, and so
on. these people have great stuff, and they give you really nice
service. (they also carry a small line of "mehn's music" - from the
communards to romanovsky & phillips.)
the holiday catalog has a hilarious page of suggestions of music for
special occasions: setting the mood on a first date? (start with
ferron and k. d. lang...) just coming out? getting a gift for a
straight friend? ("i'll be a homo for xmas" by venus envy?) totally
stressed? going to dance around the house with no witnesses?
(*great* category: parachute club's "wild zone", among others,) taking
life too seriously? buying mom or dad a present? (the list starts
with billie holiday and then gets weird.) throwing our first solstice
party? entertaining a pre-pubescent niece or nephew for a long
weekend? ("all for freedom" by sweet honey in the rock, for instance.)
then there is the page of readers' comments. they include a bunch of
nasties too. here's my favorite nasty; i think it's a pretty good
advertisement for ladyslipper:
In case it's not obvious from my name, I'm male. I'm interested
only in women, but not from your perspective. I ordered a...tape
from you without realizing I was also buying a point of view.
I thought I was just appreciating a talented artist. Your
catalog in my mail is an embarrassment to me and a waste of money
for you. And the aggressive optimism of its contents, the
concocted names, the goddesses and other illusions [his spelling]
speak depressingly of pain and ostracism. I have burdens of my
own without adding yours...
me, i've gotten a lot of joy from the stuff these people sell. right
now, i'm enjoying the "silly sisters" albums by maddie pryor and june
tabor. and i've bought the annabouboula albums for a middle-eastern
dancer friend.
then there are two things-for-women-for-women catalogs: olivia
records' "catalog in celebration of women", which carries not
only their recordings , but also some elegant and entertaining
stuff. here's a place to get wallets, keychains, and card cases
with pink triangles on them. or a wild "it's the gay 90s" t-shirt.
or an up-front "i'm visible" t-shirt. or some fanciful glassware.
and "the company of women, inc.", specifically to benefit victims
of domestic violence and rape. these people are much more
domestic and also much more practical: folding bifocals, things
for kids, cat t-shirts, the traveling singer handy stitch [has
anyone out there used one of these? we could use *something*
like this...], a fire escape ladder, massage oils, etc. clearly
feminist, but not evidently dyke-supportive.
ok, i said three, but here's another: syracuse cultural workers,
with posters, buttons, cards, etc. in these areas: ecology,
peace & justice, wholeness, choice, anti-racism, feminism,
gay, resistance [their categories]. we got these splendid
really *heavy* really *big* really *sturdy* canvas shopping
bags from these people.
yes, no one person is probably going to resonate with *everything*
in one of these catalogs. each of them contains some things
i can't imagine *anyone* wanting. but then every catalog i
get - for software, scholarly books, oldies recordings [my
goodness, the rhino catalogs are fun!], maps, classic men's
clothing, whatever - has mysteries like this. so it goes.
info:
Ladyslipper, P.O. Box 3124-R, Durham NC 27715;
inquiries 919-683-1570, orders 800-634-6044
Olivia Records, 4400 Market St., Oakland CA 94608
inquiries 510-655-0364, orders 800-631-6277
The Company of Women, 102 Main St. P.O. Box 742, Nyack NY 10960
inquiries or orders 800-937-1193
Syracuse Cultural Workers, Box 6367, Syracuse NY 13217
inquiries or orders 315-474-1132
just a few notes from our mailbox...
arnold (who gets the alyson women's catalog, which is probably
where all the rest of this came from)
Scot N. Gibson
wrote:
>
> I haven't received my H.I.M. yet (I phoned in a request for it quite
> a while back). There are a couple of interesting things about
> ordering it though. First I saw the catalog advertised in Advocate
> and then Genre. At that time, I hadn't really associated it with
> International Male. Then, I received an order from International
> Male and along with all that advertising junk you get in the package
> there was this card for H.I.M. I was a bit surprised to see it that
> "freely" advertised.
Has anyone bothered to wonder what the 'I.M' in the title of this
publication might possible stand for?
For that matter, once you got that far, what could the 'H." possible stand
for? Hmmm?
--scoT
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|Scot N. Gibson |
|
|(yes, there's only one 't'.) | "At times, indeed, almost ridiculous--
| |---------------------------------| Almost, at times, the
Fool." |
|pruf...@leland.stanford.edu | -T.S.
Eliot |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/
George Dalton Madison
>Who could ask for anything more?
Me.
() B is for Basil, assaulted by bears.
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> fu...@cup.portal.com <]
Nelson Minar
I just saw a copy and I have to say..
Bleah! Tacky, overpriced, no beards, leather-boyz who look really
uncomfortable in their leather, no body hair, too white, perfect
muscles, cheesy soft-porn style, too young, no taste.
And what the heck does H.I.M. stand for? I suppose the "I.M." could be
"International Male", but what is the "H"? Not "hairless" - that would
hardly distinguish it from the general IM catalog. "Haughty"?
"Hedonistic"? "Harmless"?
Maybe the "H" stands for "hilarious". I did get a good laugh out of
the "medieval" page, especially the guy in the leather collar. And the
posing-Eurofag-boys page.. I think I saw a Kraftwerk album cover like
that once.
I am glad that a catalog like that exists. Are Shocking Gray,
International Male, Undergear, and H.I.M. all the same company? Do
they all circulate the same mailing list?
__
nel...@reed.edu \/ The look in his eyes when it hit - kid, it was tasty...
Graffiti 404-972-4999
> I got this in the mail on Monday. Basically it is an unabashedly queer version
> of the ever-popular INTERNATIONAL MALE and UNDERGEAR catalogs.
It's a =great= catalog! I love it. When I called a couple of months ago
to order a copy, I talked to "Scott" who sounded really cute. We all but
propositioned one another... :) One of the few times I have ever called
back, asked for a supervisor and given a compliment on how courteous and
helpful the sales person had been.
Anyhow, he fixed me up with subscriptions to IM, UnderGear and HIM, all
free. I already have a few holiday gifts picked out from HIM....
--
-Ric __ __ __
\/ r...@gnu.ai.mit.edu \/ Graffiti BBS 404 972-4999 \/
GEnie: GRAFFITI PO Box 3176, Lithonia GA 30058
George Dalton Madison
>Bleah! Tacky, overpriced, no beards, leather-boyz who look really
>uncomfortable in their leather, no body hair, too white, perfect
>muscles, cheesy soft-porn style, too young, no taste.
Nelson, have I ever told you what *marvelous* taste you have?
;-{)##]
() Wearing boiled leather, chainmail or plate armor, a helm,
() and a broadsword does bring new meaning to the term
() "butch."
() -- Amanda Walker (ama...@visix.com)
Tane' Tachyon
In article <1992Nov25.1...@midway.uchicago.edu> el...@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>That's me, on both counts. What H.I.M. doesn't have (though I can
>hardly blame them, given that nobody else does either) is California
>King sheets. Does anyone know where I can get Cal Kings either:
>
> (a) well below retail (most places have to special-order, and my
> flea-market-loving heart rebels at the expense), or
> (b) so beautiful that I won't care about the expense?
If your store has a "waterbed sheets" section you'll probably find
California Kings, though you may not like the waterbed-type patterns
they often have. :-) I get them from Land's End, though you may not
find that cheap or beautiful, I don't know.
--
____________________________________________________________________________
| tac...@cats.ucsc.edu \ /__ Big glitter-slob weirdo bisexual |
| tac...@ucscb.ucsc.edu \ / / feminist vegan homeschooling parent |
| tac...@deeptht.armory.com \/ / science fiction computer bum i.n.p.o. |
-------------------------------\/-------------------------------------------
Bob Donahue
>buc...@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>>I got this in the mail on Monday. Basically it is an unabashedly queer version
>> of the ever-popular INTERNATIONAL MALE and UNDERGEAR catalogs.
Me. But then again I'm one of those nasty non-assimilationalist
types breeding dissent among the ranks by not following the marketing
curves!
>[Hint for those who haven't seen the catalogue: none of these men show
>signs of *ever* having had any hair below about nose level.]
No shit? You mean I could have put the farm on the line for
this one???
Why am I not surprised... and the sad part is, people will
eat it up - give them lots of $$$, and continue the self-oppression.
I guess if we can have sexual masochists we can have sociological
masochists.
And people wonder why there are walls between groups in
society as a whole and GBLO*-society.
Calgon, take me away...
BBC
Ellen Keyne Seebacher
> Talk about dyke invisibility! Do these twitheads just assume
> that anyone with interest in things queer feels like drooling
> over male bodies?
I want to clarify, since Arnold brought it up, that I wasn't expecting
dykes in the _catalogue_, which is labeled as being for gay men. What
I was irritated by was H.I.M.'s buying a mixed-sex queer mailing list,
and then mailing an exclusively male catalogue to it.
-- __
Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/ el...@midway.uchicago.edu
"Catwoman never went to a martial arts class. Martial arts
classes don't teach you to rip holes in steel doors. That's
pure self-expression." --wol...@cs.tamu.edu (Jan Wolter)
Mark Morrissey
>I ranted:
>> Talk about dyke invisibility!
>
>dykes in the _catalogue_, which is labeled as being for gay men. What
>I was irritated by was H.I.M.'s buying a mixed-sex queer mailing list,
>and then mailing an exclusively male catalogue to it.
Yes, this was an interesting twist on direct mail advertising. I
found it somewhat bizarre that I had to see this magazine at my friend
Dorsie's house. But then, what are pdx-motss.mom's for if not to
collect tacky magazines for there little boys.
On a related note (so as not to make the 're' police mad - but I did
change the subject line, so there!): I was leafing through the new
Advocate at Powell's bookstore on Thanksgiving day while sipping a
late' and talking with some other people and somehow lost track of
which magazine I was reading (not surprising if you know me). I was
scanning the ads and somehow convinced myself, in my disctracted way,
that I was leafing through a new magazine for gay men. When I glanced
at the front cover, I became irritated that the words "The National Gay
and Lesbian Magazine" would be on a magazine, which, from an
advertising perspective, appeared to be exclusively male-oriented. Why
does the Advocate allow this to happen? Personally, I found it to be
disturbing.
Before everyone jumps down my throat... I was talking about this
from the perspective of reading the adverts, not the articles. One
would think that the magazine could do a better job of courting
advertisers. Is there some untold story about the Advocate which
could explain this dearth of women-oriented advertising?
--mark
--
Mark Morrissey One Hatred to rule them all. One Hatred to find them.
ma...@cse.ogi.edu One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
them. In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.
Trey Chapman
>of the ever-popular INTERNATIONAL MALE and UNDERGEAR catalogs.
>
>
a copy to take to my local postman. I know that he'll run right out and get
the set!
-trey
--
*************************************************************
Trey Chapman tr...@peregrine.com
1959 Palomar Oaks Way, Carlsbad, CA (619) 431-2400 x145
Michael S Ritchie
rites:
>co...@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
>>buc...@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>>>I got this in the mail on Monday. Basically it is an unabashedly queer versi
on
>>> of the ever-popular INTERNATIONAL MALE and UNDERGEAR catalogs.
>
>types breeding dissent among the ranks by not following the marketing
>curves!
>
>>signs of *ever* having had any hair below about nose level.]
>
>eat it up - give them lots of $$$, and continue the self-oppression.
>I guess if we can have sexual masochists we can have sociological
>masochists.
> And people wonder why there are walls between groups in
>society as a whole and GBLO*-society.
>
I don't think I understand your reasoning. Why is the fact
that gay men are just as susceptible to "perfect"-looking models
as anyone else any cause to call "us" "sociological masochists"?
Pick up any catalog of any kind of clothing and you'll find whatever
the marketers think are the most attractive "types." GBLO society
and straight society certainly have this perception in common.
Why does the existence of the H.I.M. catalog cause you such
consternation (or have I misread?)?
--Michael
Scot N Gibson
> I don't think I understand your reasoning. Why is the fact
>that gay men are just as susceptible to "perfect"-looking models
>as anyone else any cause to call "us" "sociological masochists"?
>Pick up any catalog of any kind of clothing and you'll find whatever
>the marketers think are the most attractive "types." GBLO society
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>and straight society certainly have this perception in common.
>Why does the existence of the H.I.M. catalog cause you such
>consternation (or have I misread?)?
>--Michael
I think our friends are lamenting the fact that the marketers can't be
more creative in their assessment of "attractive". It's not a
gay/straight thing; it sort of a general frustration with society's
perceptions of "beauty" in general. Sure we've all heard/felt it
before, but I think we all still need to bitch about it on a regular
basis.
I actually find those "perfect"-looking models pretty darn easy to
look at, but even I (with my "vanilla"-ish tastes in men) crave some
diversity. I mean, a little skin is always nice, but a little hair
wouldn't be too bad, occasionally.
--scoT
--
______ | Scot N. Gibson | "At times, indeed, almost ridiculous-- |
\ / | Stanford Univ. | Almost, at times, the Fool." |
\ / +------------------+------------+ - T.S. Eliot |
\/ | pruf...@leland.stanford.edu |---------------------------+
Bob Donahue
>On a related note (so as not to make the 're' police mad - but I did
>change the subject line, so there!): I was leafing through the new
>Advocate at Powell's bookstore on Thanksgiving day while sipping a
>late' and talking with some other people and somehow lost track of
>which magazine I was reading (not surprising if you know me). I was
>scanning the ads and somehow convinced myself, in my disctracted way,
>that I was leafing through a new magazine for gay men. When I glanced
>at the front cover, I became irritated that the words "The National Gay
>and Lesbian Magazine" would be on a magazine, which, from an
>advertising perspective, appeared to be exclusively male-oriented. Why
>does the Advocate allow this to happen? Personally, I found it to be
>disturbing.
My former roommate in NM used to (maybe still does) subscribe to
the Advocate, and I would read it when it arrived (always being
GBLO*-oriented news-starved)... and ignoring the pullout section.
I was under the impression that they had changed their format about
a year ago to make it a little more balanced - I remember people
whining that it was "WAY TOO lesbian" and thinking that that probably
meant it was almost close to some form of "real" balance.
I also recall reading this sort of thing from some of the letters to
the editor after the change... (whiny gay men cancelling subscriptions
in protest, etc... snore).
Sounds like they've slipped... Too bad.
So, in the collective, humble opinions of the group, what
mags *are* the best for the heterogeneous GBLO* community? Right
now we pick up Bay Windows (Boston paper that has about 10 pages of
news by which time I've already haeard about it here from closer
sources, 10 pages of fluff on the local gay arts scene, a second
section of about 16 pages of REAL fluff [including a biosection
whose second question is ALWAYS astrological sign - WRETCH!]
and the obligatory bar/personal_ad/976# crap, followed by a fairly
decent local calendar, though I really have no idea how complete
it is... I miss "Gay Community News"), QW out of New York, and
that's about it. I'd like to find a comprehensive weekly news digest
that gives a LOT of stories about what's happening everywhere else.
When I was at the Portland.con I picked up a Portland gay paper
that had as a feature the 50-state digest for the week (a la USA Today)
but all gay news. I think it would really give you an idea of the climate
across the country is you read it week after week. they must get
their info from SOMEWHERE (probably from extracing things from a h ost
of local GBLO*-papers...)
BBC
Bob Donahue
>rdon...@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>>buc...@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>>>>I got this in the mail on Monday.
>>>>Basically it is an unabashedly queer version
>>>> of the ever-popular INTERNATIONAL MALE and UNDERGEAR catalogs.
>>>> Who could ask for anything more?
>> Me. But then again I'm one of those nasty non-assimilationalist
>>types breeding dissent among the ranks by not following the marketing
>>curves!
>> And people wonder why there are walls between groups in
>>society as a whole and GBLO*-society.
> I don't think I understand your reasoning. Why is the fact
>that gay men are just as susceptible to "perfect"-looking models
>as anyone else any cause to call "us" "sociological masochists"?
>Pick up any catalog of any kind of clothing and you'll find whatever
>the marketers think are the most attractive "types." GBLO society
>and straight society certainly have this perception in common.
Yes they do, but that isn't an excuse.
First off, there is more of a perception by GBLO*-folks of
a GBLO*-community than there is for heterosexuals (not that there
isn't a hetero-culture, and hetero-community, but it's sort of
like saying there is a "white" community) - and part of our community's
list of features is our supposed "diversity" which is usually
tugged along to mean our "great acceptance for people of different
types". This is usually said with the unspoken "if everyone were
accepting of diversity, there'd be a lot less hate in the world".
And that I suppose to some degree is true.
>Why does the existence of the H.I.M. catalog cause you such
>consternation (or have I misread?)?
Because all the "diversity" is thrown out the window.
I have nothing against hte models themselves, I'm sure lots of people
find them attractive, and that's great. But there's a difference
between seeing something of beauty and appreciating it and holding
it up as your sole paradigm for beauty. It's hard to take statements
like "and our community is so diverse and we are so accepting,
blah blah blah" when on the other hand, the images we promote in
our mainstream censor out all but a handful of very similar archetypes.
The unwritten thing that is promoted along with the "good"
images is that anything else is "bad" or "undesirable".
Had HIM included a variety of models, making up say, oh 20%
of all the images included would it REALLY cause their demise?
If IM/etc. in their "BIg and Tall Catalog" were to include say
big and tall models to show off their big and tall lineup (what
an incredible idea!) wouldn't that put a more positive slant on their
advertising?
Are the people making $$$ off of things like the HIM catalog
really putting anything into our community except their catalog?
Or are we being used and manipulated? You yourself say that the
"marketers" are showing what they think are "perfect". Who are
they to speak for us?
It's called "THE catalog for THE gay man", not "A catalog for
SOME gay men". There is a message there and while one can easily
see that it's misformed and obviously doesn't speak for everyone's
taste nor the gay-community as a whole, at the same time there's
no pretense made that that IS the case. Marketers do't WANT you
to believe that because they don't want any competition.
I submit that a lot of assimilationalism stems from the
constant barrage of "we are all the same"-ness in gay (not GBLO* !)
imagery. IT fosters the "walls" I mentioned before, and in the end
is one of the things that holds us back. GIven the seriousness
of the battles we are about to face int he next 5 years, we *NEED*
those walls torn down.
Why is it that the lesbian community is relatively free
from this? You don't see lesbian-oriented media apeing the
swimsuit issue from Sports Illustrated... Are gay men intrinsically
more shallow? Somehow lesbians are able to objectfy each other
without having to rank the various archetypes. Sounds to me we
gay men could learn a valuable lesson there....
And it *is* getting better, really. At least as sub-communities,
we have found some degree of visibility, but that's the end of things.
And while the concept of "fringe" is OK in terms of self-identification
and in finding people to relate to, it isn't supposed to be a ghetto.
If somewhere in the back of all our minds we are some semblance of a
community, linked by among other things, our oppression, we should
be careful to avoid foisting little bits of that on each other.
Things like HIM are in a sense gays asking other gays
to "sit in the back of the bus". You've got Chiron Rising,
you've got Bulk Male, you've got Bear, etc... don't you have enough?
No. The marketing people are going to call it a "gay" thing,
then dammit make it really truly "gay". Not what the marketing
people "think" is gay or "want everyone to believe is gay" - they
don't get to make that decision any more than Jesse Helms or
Pat Robertson do.
If we started the ball rolling that way, by demanding
a more heterogeneous representation (some might argue a more
*honest* representation) we might find it all that much easier
to work together for the larger battles.
In short it's not the models, or the archetype. It's the
message that says "This *is* it" and expects all of us to buy it.
(Literally). Though the models may be angels, and thefashions
heavenly, HIM ain't no Bible. And the head marketing exec at
IM ain't no spokesperson for the "real" gay community.
Hope this helps.
BBC
Jon Conrad
>I looked at the card I got and compared it with the other ads that
>I'd seen. They all had the same phone number BUT they all had
>different extension numbers. When I called, some operator-guy
>answered and I requested one of the extension numbers and the
>operator didn't transfer me. He just took my address and told me
>I'd receive a catalog in about six weeks. So then, I began
>wondering why all the extension numbers.
A lot of phone ordering works this way. One operator may be handling
orders for a number of different publications (not just to receive it,
but maybe to order from it or others). The "extension" is the code that
brings the right ordering "form" up on the operator's computer screen.
Now, how can those of us benighted enough not to have received this
much-discussed catalog get hold of a copy? What IS that number? :-)
Jon Alan Conrad
Nelson Minar
>So, in the collective, humble opinions of the group, what mags *are*
>the best for the heterogeneous GBLO* community?
Outweek. Oh, oops.
>I'd like to find a comprehensive weekly news digest that gives a LOT
>of stories about what's happening everywhere else.
Hmm, interesting. Do any other minority communities have this sort of
thing? Did they in the past? I occasionally read Portland area papers
written for Black or Hispanic audiences, and they don't seem much
different from our Queer papers, except that they seem to be more
conservative. (sweeping generalization time.)
>When I was at the Portland.con I picked up a Portland gay paper that
>had as a feature the 50-state digest for the week (a la USA Today)
>but all gay news.
Sounds like Just Out, only Just Out was then a monthly. (They just
moved to twice monthly. I hope it works for them..) The column I have
in mind was a one page thing, where each story was a small paragraph.
>I think it would really give you an idea of the climate across the
>country is you read it week after week.
I'm not so sure about this. It's certainly useful to have this sort of
reporting, but it is largely anecdotal. How much do we miss?
>they must get their info from SOMEWHERE (probably from extracing
>things from a h ost of local GBLO*-papers...)
There's one person at Just Out in charge of doing that column. I
assume he reads other queer papers, stays in touch with groups like
NGLTF, and then prints what he can find. But aren't there queer
clipping services?
I occasionally intend to print out an article from soc.motss and send
it off to the guy at Just Out to print in his column, but I always
forget. When I think to pay attention, it amazes me how many different
stories there are - I get one set of lesbigay news reading soc.motss,
another set reading Just Out, another set reading the Oregonian, and a
fourth set looking through the New York Times. Many of these stories
have national or international political significance to lesbigays,
but it seems random which stories I hear.
I've given up trying to know about every instance of queers on
mainstream television. Two years ago it seemed possible. (Anyone else
see Marlon Riggs' "Color Adjustment"? I'm thinking particularly of the
bit where one of the people mentions how all her Black friends would
make sure to watch TV when a Black person was on TV. Sounded familiar.)
__
nel...@reed.edu \/ I can live forever in formaldehyde
George Dalton Madison
>In short it's not the models, or the archetype. It's the
>message that says "This *is* it" and expects all of us to buy it.
>(Literally). Though the models may be angels, and thefashions
>heavenly, HIM ain't no Bible. And the head marketing exec at
>IM ain't no spokesperson for the "real" gay community.
***** BRAVO! *****
And for anyone about to start complaining about "another of BBC's
anti-IM rants," I suggest you open your mind and re-read his
article, seeing what he actually wrote, rather than what you
THINK he said.
() I will give up my beard when they shave it from my cold,
() dead face!
() -- Peter Thomas (From the "Razor's Anonymous" Handbook)
George Dalton Madison
>I occasionally intend to print out an article from soc.motss and send
>it off to the guy at Just Out to print in his column, but I always
>forget.
Well, *I* don't. ;-) I've been copying articles here and there
(mainly "reprints" from other sources, but not always) and giving
them to our news editor as leads. Cathal Kelly's name has
appeared as a by-line at least twice in _Frontiers'_ WORLD
section, and thanks to that posting from Sweden about the flap
over Erasure's cancellation from the Disney show, we broke that
story in the SoCal gay media.
I deluged Aslan with stuff on OR:9 before the election, and with
the reaction to CO:2 afterward, material she's been vocally
appreciative of. (In fact, several stories have had phrasing
along the lines of "reports from soc.motss, an Internet
newsgroup..." in them!)
I've been meaning to mention this for a while, but it did slip
my mind until now. So, I want to extend the thanks of Aslan
Brooke, news editor for _Frontiers_ to all of you who've posted
material that has helped her keep our news section vital.
() It is a great shock at the age of five or six to find
() that in a world of Gary Coopers you are the Indian.
() -- James Baldwin
John Dorrance
>Aslan Brooke
Cool name! Aslan's the name of the lion/God figure in the chronicles
of Narnia, a really groovy (though pretty highly religious) children's
book series. Anyone else familiar with the series?
John, tromping down memory lane
--
tha...@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Kiss me, I'm an aphrodisiac!
I could leave you - say goodbye. Or I could love you, if I try...
And I could. And left to my own devices, I probably would.
Scot N Gibson
Dorrance) writes:
>Anyone else familiar with the series [The Chronicles of Narnia]?
Yeah, I was entranced with them when I was young. I re-read them this
summer and found them just as good. My favorite is "Voyage of the
Dawn Treader".
>
>John, tromping down memory lane
>
>--
>tha...@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Kiss me, I'm an aphrodisiac!
>
> I could leave you - say goodbye. Or I could love you, if I try...
> And I could. And left to my own devices, I probably would.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ love this song ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
--scoT
--
______ | Scot N. Gibson | "At times, indeed, almost ridiculous-- |
\ / | Stanford Univ. | Almost, at times, the Fool." |
\ / +-----------------+-------------+ - T.S. Eliot |
\/ | pruf...@leland.stanford.edu |--------------------------+
Ailsa N.T. Murphy
> Fu...@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>
> >Aslan Brooke
>
> Cool name! Aslan's the name of the lion/God figure in the chronicles
> of Narnia, a really groovy (though pretty highly religious) children's
> book series. Anyone else familiar with the series?
>
isn;'t that standard american cultural knowlege, somewhere around being
able to name the brady kids? if it isn't, it ought to be...
-ailsa, bibliophile
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
ailsa%ailant...@wang.com
________
I miss the rains down in Africa. Silence \ / Action
Gotta take some time to do the things we = \ / =
never have... Death \ / Life
\/
Jennifer S Broekman
>>Aslan Brooke
>Cool name! Aslan's the name of the lion/God figure in the chronicles
Actually, he's the Christ figure. The Emperor across the Sea is the God
figure.
>of Narnia, a really groovy (though pretty highly religious) children's
>book series. Anyone else familiar with the series?
Yes. I read it many times over in elementary school. I realized that it was
Xtian-allegorical at about the age of 8 and begged my parents to get me a copy
of the Bible (they're not Xtian, so we didn't have one around the house.).
When I read the 'real thing', I was crushed. It wasn't anywhere near as nice
and friendly and supportive and accepting as C.S. Lewis made it out to be.
-jenneke
Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy
The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. - Alfred Kinsey
jenneke is: js...@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
Mick Washbrook
>
> Has anyone bothered to wonder what the 'I.M' in the title of this
> publication might possible stand for?
I believe the acronym H.I.M. stands for Heavily Into Mascara.
John Dorrance
>isn;'t that standard american cultural knowlege, somewhere around being
>able to name the brady kids? if it isn't, it ought to be...
Uh... Peter, Greg... Marsha... Cindy... ... Chastity and Tito.
Graffiti 404-972-4999
George Dalton Madison
>Fu...@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>>Aslan Brooke
>
>Cool name! Aslan's the name of the lion/God figure in the chronicles
This being one of the reasons she chose the name.....
() There's no money in poetry, but there's no poetry in
() money either.
() -- Robert Graves
Tane' Tachyon
In article <1992Nov25....@osf.org> co...@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
>[Hint for those who haven't seen the catalogue: none of these men show
>signs of *ever* having had any hair below about nose level.]
Eh, the guy on page 9 has a bit anyway. :-) I got two copies of this
catalog a few days ago ... I seem to be on so many mailing lists that
I get multiple copies of all this stuff. Right before that I'd gotten
two catalogs from Olivia, two from Ladyslipper and three from Shocking
Gray.
And speaking of the holiday shopping stuff, today I was briefly in a
model train shop ... maybe everyone except me already knew about this,
but *I* was surprised to find that "LGB" is a big model train brand
name along with Lionel and the rest. I was happily looking around at
all these boxes with LGB in big letters, signs like "the new LGB
Christmas train is here!", books like "<someone>'s Guide to LGB
Trains". Unfortunately I didn't see any cool t-shirts, but who knows,
they might exist ... "LGB Power ... come over to my place and see my
layout" or some such ... :-)
John Dorrance
>Yeah, I was entranced with them when I was young. I re-read them this
>summer and found them just as good. My favorite is "Voyage of the
>Dawn Treader".
Yuppers. I'd opine, in general, that the first 3 are good, the 2nd
3 really boring in places, and the last one pretty good as well.
John, who has since started eyeing the series to read again, a bad
idea with 3 books kinda going already
Tom Limoncelli
>mags *are* the best for the heterogeneous GBLO* community? Right
QW is very NYC centric, but the news is good. They don't lose focus
about AIDS and a lot of their stuff comes from people doing the
activism themselves. Very good interviews. Very good colums (incluing
Ann Northrop, my favorite). They also have Dykes To Watch Out For (the
comic strip).
Tom
--
Tom Limoncelli -- t...@plts.uucp (home) -- t...@warren.mentorg.com (work)
"Higgy higgy forward, higgy higgy higgy higgy higgy shake! Yeeaaah!"
1004211322700352222
Chad Jones
writes:
>I looked at the card I got and compared it with the other ads that
>I'd seen. They all had the same phone number BUT they all had
>different extension numbers. When I called, some operator-guy
>answered and I requested one of the extension numbers and the
>operator didn't transfer me. He just took my address and told me
>I'd receive a catalog in about six weeks. So then, I began
>the person saw the ad for marketing purposes (to avoid asking the
>question "Where did you see our ad?").
Right. When I called for the catalog, the operator asked twice for the
"extension". I commented "That's so you know which ad I saw, isn't it?"
He said, "Exactly!"
I suppose they would have gotten my name from the Advocate or
International Male mailing lists, anyway.
Lee Tucker
>
> >Aslan Brooke
>
> Cool name! Aslan's the name of the lion/God figure in the chronicles
> of Narnia, a really groovy (though pretty highly religious)
children's
> book series. Anyone else familiar with the series?
>
> John, tromping down memory lane
>
Let's see, 7 books, written by C.S. Lewis.
The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe
The Silver Chair
Prince Caspian
The Voyage of the Dawn Treader
A Horse and his Boy
The Magician's Nephew
The Last Battle
I'd pull the set out and check, but they're at home. My favorite was
always the Voyage of the Dawn Treader. I liked Reepicheep (sp?), the
valiant mouse. There was a series on PBS recently that was a
dramatization of the first three or four books.
Lee
--
e-mail:Lee_T...@NeXT.com
B2 f t- w- c- g+ k m r- s(--)
Higher up and further in....
James Drew
>I ranted:
>> Talk about dyke invisibility! Do these twitheads just assume
>> that anyone with interest in things queer feels like drooling
>> over male bodies?
>
>I want to clarify, since Arnold brought it up, that I wasn't expecting
>dykes in the _catalogue_, which is labeled as being for gay men. What
>I was irritated by was H.I.M.'s buying a mixed-sex queer mailing list,
>and then mailing an exclusively male catalogue to it.
Maybe they're planning on doing one for dykes, too, called H.E.R.? Not.
Frankly, I picked up my copy, thumbed through it, and said, "I wouldn't be
caught *dead* in any of this stuff." Then I dropped it on the dining room
table. Later, my (straight female) housemate picked it up, and leafed through.
Then she burst out laughing. She wouldn't want to be caught dead in any
of the outfits, either. She had some comments, though:
* She thought the shorts with attached garter belt/stocking were kind of cute.
* She found the shiny formal shirt utterly ridiculous.
* She preferred the models in the framed photos to the ones in the clothes.
* She, too, giggled at the Kama Sutra Massage Oils.
* She made a crack about the "chest window tee" being a design swiped from
Star Trek's Romulans. "You can see the cleavage!"
* She found the "hole in the front" and "open buns" underwear ridiculous.
* She said the overly colorful designs on the various "trendy" shirts and
vests made her more sick than anything.
* She commented that the glass-bead frames looked like they were made of
plywood, and were, in general, too gaudy to live.
* And then there was the "Sling Shot" underwear. Giggle.
* Her favorite page was the one with the pieces of armor, since she's a
medieval recreationist. She was far more interested in the not-for-
sale bits that the clothes, though.
Me, I agreed with all her points, and added one other: how many gay men do
*you* deal with on a regular basis who look like these models? I'm not
talking about muscles and ripply abs; I mean no facial hair or body hair?
Get real!
Thus, here is a letter I've sent to H.I.M. I'm fed up with these clothing
catalogs professing to represent "the" look of the gay community without
presenting models who look *anything* close to my significant or favorite
characteristics. Feel free to take and modify this letter as you see fit,
for you own ends.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ cut here ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
H.I.M.
One American Way
Roanoke, VA 24016-8099
Dear H.I.M.:
I received your catalog in the mail the other day, and I was
surprised, but not in the ways you would like.
"H.I.M. The Look. The Lifestyle. The Catalog." Oh, please! Stop
trying to foist your idea of "the" look for the gay community off on me.
What, pray, tell, does the acronym H.I.M. stand for? Looking through
the catalog, I can only assume it means "Hair Is Missing." In your catalog,
I see exactly *one* model with anything more than minimal body hair apparent
(he appears on page 8-9, only), and *none* of the models sport facial hair
(the only moustache in the catalog being in a framed photo on page 16).
I'm not asking you to feature nothing but 250-pound biker bears in
leather with tatoos and ZZTOP beards, but have you looked at a decent
cross-section of the gay community lately? At least 1/3 to 1/2 of the gay
men I deal with on a frequent basis have facial hair, and a good percentage
have significant body hair elsewhere.
Until you are ready to present a better cross-section of the gay
community's body types among your models, you can keep your fucking
subscription. Please remove my name from your mailing list.
Sincerely,
James R. Drew
December 3, 1992
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ cut here ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
| I introduced us to the Sisters of Perpetual
Jim Drew | Inebriation.
j...@frame.com | "My name's Marc Lynx; I'm a detective. This
(Furry: Randy Puritan) | is Ron Harrington -- he's the one who actually
"Innocent, but not naive." | found the body -- and Val Raynor. Val is Ron's,
B(2)h t c k s g+(p) rv p e | uh... significant other."
S8/5 g l+ y+ o+ a+ u++- j++ | One of the men dressed as drunk nuns looked
{opinions: mine != frame's} | at me oddly. "And that makes you kind of an
| insignificant other, doesn't it, girlfriend?"
| - Marc Lynx, "Awl's Fare"
abe...@enh.nist.gov
>* And then there was the "Sling Shot" underwear. Giggle.
I actually saw someone "wear" that thing once, in a stripper bar a feew
weeks ago. It looks even more silly in person. The strip of fabric
which goes from the crack of the butt and then separates to go over
the shoulders stuck out because of the curvature of the stripper's
back. It was the silliest thing I'd seen in ages.
It reminds me of a card I saw many years ago. A man wearing sunglasses
and a piece of fabric which stretches from his crotch over his left
shoulder and extending well out past the corner of the picture.
It was entitled "Fashion Victim."
Sim Aberson Ft. Lauderdale, FL aberson%3328...@sdsc.edu
"Home is where your roof landed" - t-shirt seen in Miami
Hate, bigotry, and discrimination are not family values, even in
Colorado and Tampa.
Peter Cooper
>pruf...@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scot N Gibson) writes:
>>Yeah, I was entranced with them when I was young. I re-read them this
>>summer and found them just as good. My favorite is "Voyage of the
>>Dawn Treader".
>Yuppers. I'd opine, in general, that the first 3 are good, the 2nd
>3 really boring in places, and the last one pretty good as well.
>John, who has since started eyeing the series to read again, a bad
>idea with 3 books kinda going already
See if you can catch the BBC series based on the books (on your PBS
network?). It's great! They based most of their casting and scenes
on the illos from one of the early editions. Wild. But Lucy is a short,
round girl. I didn't expect that at all ;-)
Peter
--
email: com...@uniwa.uwa.edu.au snail: Peter Cooper
fax: +61 9 380 1041 Guild of Undergraduates
phone: +61 9 380 3929 University of Western Australia
"It was the banana that did it!" - Julia Marley
John Dorrance
Do they have film versions of all the books? I saw the one for
Lion et al (in church. Loved it!), but didn't know if there were
films for the others. ???
Dean Allemang
j...@frame.com (James Drew) writes:
> What, pray, tell, does the acronym H.I.M. stand for? Looking through
> the catalog, I can only assume it means "Hair Is Missing."
I once read in an IM catalogue (yes, I actually READ one!), a letter
to the editor along these lines (though the editor had toned down the
tone a bit). The editor's answer? `Hair on the models' bodies
intereferes with displaying the clothes, which, after all, is what we
are displaying here, right?'
Tee hee hee hee hee hee hee . . .
I wonder whether the editor of H.I.M. will respond more appriately?
Dorsie Hathaway
>Yes, this was an interesting twist on direct mail advertising. I
>found it somewhat bizarre that I had to see this magazine at my friend
>Dorsie's house. But then, what are pdx-motss.mom's for if not to
>collect tacky magazines for there little boys.
It's a good thing I demuffined several months ago. This
would have been one hell of a way of coming out on soc.motss!
[other stuff about the Advocate deleted]
>advertisers. Is there some untold story about the Advocate which
>could explain this dearth of women-oriented advertising?
>
I get the Advocate by subscription, and this is how
I suspect I got added to the H.I.M. mailing list. I think
the guys in International Male are cuter.
r
I wish there were more of a balanced menu of advertising in the
Advocate.
I'm glad the hot ads come in a separate wrapper, since they
are not exactly family reading.
DorsieH, aka pdx-motss "mom"
--
--Dorsie Hathaway, Technical Writer INTERNET: Dor...@agora.rain.com
Dor...@atlastele.com
AOL: DorsieH
--Visualize Whirled Peas
Bob Donahue
A Letters to the Editor column? Shirley, you jest! Frankly,
though I think this is a hoot --- what do they think, they are,
the _New Yorker_ or _Esquire_? It's becoming more and more
clear that this is a severe joke play ed upon the general citizenry.
Well, anyway back to the point... how can hair be a intereference?
One preusmes that the garments are worn OVER the hair, not the other
way around (esp. if they want to seel anything --- I can't see shelling
out $$$ for interdermal underwear, slingshot or otherwise...)
And if they really wanted to just showcase the clothing, why
not get rid of themodels completely? I mean how many people
see the models first and THEN only notice what's he's wearing.
I for one have never heard this exchange:
WOW! LOOK AT THAT POLO SHIRT! THAT IS INCREDIBLE - HOT HOT HOT!
Oh yeah and the model poured into it isn't so bad either.
Methinks the "editors" at IM or is that *IM have been snacking
too much on the local mushrooms.
BBC
George Dalton Madison
> j...@frame.com (James Drew) writes:
>>What, pray, tell, does the acronym H.I.M. stand for? Looking through
>> the catalog, I can only assume it means "Hair Is Missing."
>
>I once read in an IM catalogue (yes, I actually READ one!), a letter
>to the editor along these lines (though the editor had toned down the
>tone a bit). The editor's answer? `Hair on the models' bodies
>intereferes with displaying the clothes, which, after all, is what we
>are displaying here, right?'
What *INCREDIBLY* lame bullshit. It certainly doesn't seem to
get in the way at Cheyenne Outfitters -- or *SEARS*, for cryin'
out loud. These brain-dead twinkoids must be living in a bubble
-- or under a rock.
() Happiness isn't something you experience; it's something
() you remember.
() -- Oscar Levant
Donald L Yarman
(John Dorrance) writes:
>Do they have film versions of all the books? I saw the one for
>Lion et al (in church. Loved it!)
You _liked_ the animated _Lion, Witch, Wardrobe_???? Iielchh!!
("Iielchh" is my attempt to spell the sound I made when I read
that you _liked_ that horrid cartoon.)
No no no. They've filmed (most of?) the Chronicles of Narnia
for WonderWorks. All the public libraries around here have
the tapes; check around in your area. They're great.
I just re-read _Lion..._ a couple months ago for my Children's
Lit exam. The magicalness held up well after 20 years, but
the preachiness got on my nerves a bit more. Well, and the
sexism was annoying. "Battles are ugly when women are involved."
Right. As opposed to how beautiful and noble they are when
it's just the guys chopping each other up.
--Don
Michael A. Thomas
> Dean Allemang writes:
> >I once read in an IM catalogue (yes, I actually READ one!), a letter
> >to the editor along these lines (though the editor had toned down the
> >tone a bit). The editor's answer? `Hair on the models' bodies
> >intereferes with displaying the clothes, which, after all, is what we
> >are displaying here, right?'
>
> What *INCREDIBLY* lame bullshit.
Now George. You shirley must admit that if you were to get one of
these catalogues you would only look at the clothes, since you loath
the models so much. Therefore the editor is right. QED.
--
Michael Thomas (mi...@gordian.com)
"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."
-- Hobbes to Calvin
USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca, 92707-5637
PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Suzii Abe
reader responses to the ladyslipper catalog.
Was it ladyslipper which printed, in the last few years, a
letter from a man who did not want the catalog to come to
his house, since his wife no longer lived there, having
run off with her lesbian lover, and he and his son had no
desire to sully their home with such "Satinist" trash?
Now, if someone were to have an irresistable desire to
use this as the basis of a bestselling novel, what would
the legal ramifications be?
--Suzii.
pale...@lily.arts.com
(and where does one look for a Satinist worship service?
now, *that* is my sort of cult.)
_
Arnold M Zwicky
though i have to admit i'm not sure how many of us worship properly
at the Church of the Carnivorous Eggplant; i suspect there's an
awful lot of mere lip-service. (mere indeed, you cry, and i hear
you.)
but Satinism has an attractive sound to it - a religion we can all get
out and roll around happily on. the sacrament of stretching out naked
together. champagne in bed. gathering together with a few
like-minded friends to commune. yumm.
but it probably won't last. soon there'll be a Silk Schism.
Velourism. Cashmere Cults. Moleskin Worship. a Velvet Underground.
(ok, there already has been one of those.) you know how these things
go.
arnold (feeling slick)
Tim Fogarty
In article <921203194...@lynx.corp.frame.com>,
|>
|> how many gay men do
|>*you* deal with on a regular basis who look like these models? I'm not
|>talking about muscles and ripply abs; I mean no facial hair or body hair?
|>Get real!
|>
I dont know. These models look like all the guys I know here in So Cal. :-)
--
Tim Fogarty
Sys Man and Sys Admin for the EGSE in the POCC at JSC for SRL-1, STS-59
FOG...@SIR-C.JPL.NASA.GOV
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
>
>(and where does one look for a Satinist worship service?
>now, *that* is my sort of cult.)
>_
I'm more of a Silkist myself.
--
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
"Well, I'm a little muddled." -- Glinda
Arnold M Zwicky
(frank r.a.j. maloney) writes, vis-a-vis satinism:
>I'm more of a Silkist myself.
see, i *told* you this would happen. there's scarcely been
time for satinists to get out and recruit, and already schisms
are developing.
hmm..it's been several *years* since we mentioned silkies on
soc.motss, i think. now that the perennial "why don't women
post more?" thread has made its appearance (a question that
tends to make a certain number of women throw up their hands
and go on to read other newsgroups), maybe we could bring
back quaint topics from the past.
but then maybe silkists aren't into silkies. how would i
know? it's not *my* religion.
arnold (who has finally gotten real info from our martin
about yma sumac cds, and who wonders what brand-new readers
of soc.motss make of that observation)
Mara Chibnik
??
>>(and where does one look for a Satinist worship service?
>>now, *that* is my sort of cult.)
I'm a linenist.
--
Mara Chibnik
ma...@panix.com Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Jess Anderson
(Mara Chibnik) writes:
>I'm a linenist.
Eeeuuww. Rough fiber, icky poo.
I'm a cottonist, and I have you know we're the majority
in this world, though nudists come close (and many of them
can, any darn time they like).
Arnold was right; terrible schisms are likely in the fabric
cult. I will, however, note that Ro Reid has long been the
Top Cloth of the cult.
<> So, why stopping the fun when it is for free?
<> -- Alberto Adolfo Pinkas (a...@wam.umd.edu)
<> It's not free, it's not fun, and there's no stopping it.
<> Blech. -- David Rogers (dro...@riacs.edu)
--
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: ande...@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Jack Hamilton
writes:
>
>(and where does one look for a Satinist worship service?
You look in the yellow pages, silly.
In the San Francisco phone book (1991, the year I have nearby), the heading
"Churches - Satanic" has three listings. It's between "Churches -
Salvation Army" and "Churches - Seventh-day Adventist".
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton j...@netcom.com P. O. Box 281107 SF, CA 94128-1107
Robert Coren
> hmm..it's been several *years* since we mentioned silkies on
> soc.motss, i think. now that the perennial "why don't women
> post more?" thread has made its appearance
I don't remember "silkies", but as for women who should post more,
whatever happened to Tsilke?
TDO
A. Thomas) wrote:
> In article <70...@cup.portal.com>, Fu...@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
> > Dean Allemang writes:
> > >The editor's answer? `Hair on the models' bodies
> > >intereferes with displaying the clothes, which, after all, is what we
> > >are displaying here, right?'
> > What *INCREDIBLY* lame bullshit.
> Now George. You shirley must admit that if you were to get one of
> these catalogues you would only look at the clothes, since you loath
> the models so much. Therefore the editor is right. QED.
Now Michael. You shirley must admit that if George were to get one of these
catalogues he would have difficulty looking at the clothes, as he would
undoubtedly be bent double heaving his guts into the toilet. Therefore the
editor is wrong. QED.
> Michael Thomas (mi...@gordian.com)
TDO
--
#include "StdDisclaimer.h"
Pain, like time, is going to come on regardless. Question is, what glorious
moments can you win from life in addition to the pain? -- Lois McMaster
Bujold, _Barrayar_
Mick Washbrook
>
> ??
> >>(and where does one look for a Satinist worship service?
> >>now, *that* is my sort of cult.)
> fra...@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney):
> >I'm more of a Silkist myself.
>
> I'm a linenist.
Isn't Cotton Mather mixed up in this thread somewhere?
--
Death to all fanatics!!
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Jeff Putnam
> >>(and where does one look for a Satinist worship service?
> >>now, *that* is my sort of cult.)
>fra...@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney):
> >I'm more of a Silkist myself.
>
>I'm a linenist.
I'm a woolite.
jefu {feeling vaguely guilty as he promised himself to never, but never,
contribute to run-on pun threads.}
--
jefu <=> Jeff Putnam - New Mexico Tech <=> je...@nmt.edu
"Daffodils go Ping! and Oink! // They Really are alarming
I'm scared of big geraniums // And I'm sure that Lilac's harming"
(Dr. Bertram X. Fegg)
Jess Anderson
Washbrook) writes:
>In article <1992Dec7....@panix.com>, ma...@panix.com
(Mara Chibnik) writes:
>> I'm a linenist.
>Isn't Cotton Mather mixed up in this thread somewhere?
Isn't that a stitch? I knew he'd be bobbin' up somewhere in
this morning's spool. But the man had real fiber in the
parson's frock, didn't he? Never one to treadle lightly on
sin, he, ever admonishing lovers: no Necchi, OK? He was
probably a good Singer, too: "As ye sew, so shall ye reap."
'Course, it might be a little difficult to be bringing in
the sheaves while cutting up, anyhow, according to most
patterns. These days, it's all in vogue. I must say, too,
that buttonholing people for an embroidery of puns is my
idea of elastic humor. Well, time to zipper off to
beddy-bye, between the sheets. If you see 'em, say farewell
to Polly and Esther for me.
Mara Chibnik
>>>>(and where does one look for a Satinist worship service?
>>>I'm more of a Silkist myself.
>>I'm a linenist.
mi...@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook):
>Isn't Cotton Mather mixed up in this thread somewhere?
Ooooh, not a cult for mixed fibers! That's kinky.
Mara Chibnik
Paul Isaacs
>In article <18...@autodesk.COM> mi...@autodesk.com (Mick
>Washbrook) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Dec7....@panix.com>, ma...@panix.com
>(Mara Chibnik) writes:
>
>>> I'm a linenist.
>
>>Isn't Cotton Mather mixed up in this thread somewhere?
>
>Isn't that a stitch? I knew he'd be bobbin' up somewhere in
>this morning's spool. But the man had real fiber in the
>parson's frock, didn't he? Never one to treadle lightly on
>sin, he, ever admonishing lovers: no Necchi, OK? He was
>probably a good Singer, too: "As ye sew, so shall ye reap."
>'Course, it might be a little difficult to be bringing in
>the sheaves while cutting up, anyhow, according to most
>patterns. These days, it's all in vogue. I must say, too,
>that buttonholing people for an embroidery of puns is my
>idea of elastic humor. Well, time to zipper off to
>beddy-bye, between the sheets.
Gonna take a nap, perhaps?
>If you see 'em, say farewell to Polly and Esther for me.
A hem.
Can't think of any moire?
Are there no puns weft?
pauli.
eleanor.j.evans
> >>(and where does one look for a Satinist worship service?
> >>now, *that* is my sort of cult.)
>fra...@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney):
> >I'm more of a Silkist myself.
>
>I'm a linenist.
Does anyone know where I can find _cheap_ (I'd settle for
_reasonably_ priced) linen sheets? Something I wouldn't
have to kill someone to get (though that's a distinct
possibility....).
Piglet
Nelson Minar
>>>>(and where does one look for a Satinist worship service?
>>I'm a linenist.
I'm a member of the flannel complot, myself.
>Does anyone know where I can find _cheap_ (I'd settle for
>_reasonably_ priced) linen sheets?
Oh, but the joys of flannel! Cold nights in an unheated summer house,
warm flannel sheets, warm flannel men..
I just found a set of black flannel sheets for my futon. I am very happy.
__
nel...@reed.edu \/ Days go by, endlessly pulling you into the future
George Neville-Neil
>A hem.
>Can't think of any moire?
>Are there no puns weft?
>
>
It's twoo, it's twoo, we seem to be beweft of puns.
Later,
Miss Lilly
--
We don't care, we don't have to, we're Amtrak.
Brent Davies
>In article <1992Dec7....@panix.com> ma...@panix.com
>(Mara Chibnik) writes:
>>I'm a linenist.
>Eeeuuww. Rough fiber, icky poo.
(*gasp*) Jess! How can you malign the fab-best of fab-brics? Granted, the
stuff wrinkles if you *look* at it, but you'd be surprised--or maybe you
wouldn't--at how many people enjoy the rumpled look.
And as for roughness--(*ahem*) well, it depends on the flax. I've seen linen
that could pass for cotton to the touch...
--Brent, who often looks rumpled
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
> >>(and where does one look for a Satinist worship service?
> >>now, *that* is my sort of cult.)
>fra...@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney):
> >I'm more of a Silkist myself.
>
>I'm a linenist.
And I respect you for that.
Joseph Francis
I got mine when I lived in LA in Hong Kong. Irish Linen is still Irish
Linen, and won't be that cheap anywhere.
I propose now that whoever is interested, on MOTSS, that we organize a
'garage sale of the century' shopping trip to Hong Kong in 1995. Irish
Linen; erotic pottery; Armani up the whazoo. Chinese Red laquer
cloisonne. Unbelievably good food. Kowloon. A junk ride. Fabulous cinema.
Hollywood road........
-jojo
--
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.