What the hell is a TWINKIE?
rlc...@zeus.tamu.edu
In my exposure to Soc.Motss so far, I have been unable to determine
what people mean by the term "twinkie" or "twink." What is it?
Bud Cox
rlc...@rigel.tamu.edu
George Dalton Madison
> In my exposure to Soc.Motss so far, I have been unable to determine
> what people mean by the term "twinkie" or "twink." What is it?
A CYT (Cute Young Thing), usually with Attitude From Hell.
Fashion-conscious, airheaded, and frequently blonde.
() The first duty of a revolutionary is to get away with it.
() -- Abbie Hoffman
-----
[George D. Madison, a/k/a Furr | 8-{)##] | NBCS:B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv PIG 8/7]
[> fu...@cup.portal.com <#> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <]
John Flanagan
>Bud Cox writes:
>> In my exposure to Soc.Motss so far, I have been unable to determine
>> what people mean by the term "twinkie" or "twink." What is it?
>A CYT (Cute Young Thing), usually with Attitude From Hell.
>Fashion-conscious, airheaded, and frequently blonde.
Don't you mean blond? :-)
--
John Flanagan Center for EUV Astrophysics
jo...@ssl.berkeley.edu University of California
(...!ucbvax!soc1.ssl!johnf) Berkeley, CA 94720
Hill ate transmission;/time to take horseless carriage/'round back and shoot it
Eric Holeman
>> In my exposure to Soc.Motss so far, I have been unable to determine
>> what people mean by the term "twinkie" or "twink." What is it?
>A CYT (Cute Young Thing), usually with Attitude From Hell.
>Fashion-conscious, airheaded, and frequently blonde.
Golden brown or yellow on the outside; creamy, fluffy white one the
inside.
--
Eric Holeman wave...@milton.u.washington.edu
"Have you ever tried oval-shaped hotcakes? When you cook them
in a round skillet or round grill an oval shape will fit in
better, and you can get more in!"--Heloise
a flying squirrel
> [description of a Twink]
>A CYT (Cute Young Thing), usually with Attitude From Hell.
>Fashion-conscious, airheaded, and frequently blonde.
Does that mean that a Bear is:
A UOT (Ugly Old Thing), usually with Attitude From Hell.
Not fashion-conscious, airheaded, and frequently with hair of
any color?
Let's get our generalisations straight, dear.
--
richard w. johnson. apple computer europe. paris, france. ric...@apple.com
coming soon to london's west end.
"B-B-Bb-G-E" -- opening to "Cubik" by 808 State.
Joseph Francis
> what people mean by the term "twinkie" or "twink." What is it?
>
>Bud Cox
A person who is a twinkie is an objective correlative for your name
'Bud Cox' if one thinks of it as 'Bud Cocks'. Proto-men, of a sort,
spongy and cream filled. Usually hairless, except for elaborately
Farrah-Fawcett-manque styling, and usually brainless except for
elaborately politically correct posturing. Twinkies are slender,
though we all know that with proper feeding and care they do develop
later into nicely fleshed out hairdressers and supermarket clerks. If
it weren't for twinkies, all of New York, Los Angeles, and San
Francisco would be cafeterias - twinkies are the mainstay of the
restaurant industry. Twinkies speak 'on the breath', that is without
good support -- they are the last holdouts of lispy faggy talk, which
is one of their good points. They often can be seen smoking clove
cigarettes even though they are ostensibly against all smoking. Twinks
occasionially type, and the result is books like 'Scary Monsters'.
Heterosexual twink-manques type (yes, 'type' and not 'write') books
like 'Less Than Zero'. Twinks sometimes have huge baseball-bat
motherfuckin' table-leg hateful uncut anteater dicks; they are usually
found by Sadomasochists and force-fed leather and drugs until they
look dissipated enough to be interesting clothed. This type is a
mainstay of pornographic videos.
Things Twinks have said to me:
Viewing my house: "You've read all these books?"
Trying for Conversation: "Like, you know, I'm sure..."
Waiter in Restaurant: "You must be Taurus. Only Taurus orders Carpaccio."
Exercising in Gym: "You shouldn't drink coke. It is bad for you."
Good reaction: "Oh my GAAAAAWD!" seeing me sniffing a Magic Marker
In France, one would think the type would be called "Madelines" after
a delicious biscuit similar to twinkies. Thankfully, however, it is
too literary.
(Interesting comparison: in America a spongy cake is an excuse by a
Heterosexual (Dan White) for the death of a homosexual. In France a
spongy cake is an excuse by a Homosexual (Proust) for the birth of a
classic novel.)
Clearer?
--
| Le Jojo: Fresh 'n' Clean, speaking out to the way you want to live
| today; American - All American; doing, a bit so, and even more so.
Arnold M. Zwicky
explains to bud cox what (he thinks) a twink(ie) is:
>A CYT (Cute Young Thing), usually with Attitude From Hell.
>Fashion-conscious, airheaded, and frequently blonde.
now...although i don't play one on tv, i *am* a linguist, and i have
to point out, in the interests of accuracy, that this is a definition
only in the sense that the entries in ambrose bierce's _devil's
dictionary_ are. bud probably figured this out, but what george gave
us is the beginning of a definition, plus a large helping of his
opinions and judgments. (and a persistent confusion on BLOND versus
BLONDE. i'm sure george meant BLOND.)
the thing is, many of us want words to pick out various "types" of
people, especially gay people, on the basis of their socially relevant
characteristics, appearance and behavior especially. the twink is one
such type, and george gets some of generally recognized
characteristics - in particular, those recognized by twinks themselves
as relevant to their world - right; youth (as this is judged by gay
men) and cuteness (ditto; cute is opposed to rough/tough/menacing as
well as to plain/dull; cute has a certain sweetness and a certain
sparkle, not just good looks) are the primary characteristics.
the stereotypical twink - the guy most of us picture when we hear the
word - is also white, middle-class, smooth, blond, slim rather than
hunky (a bodybuilding twink is not a contradiction in terms, just an
uncommon combination), fashionably dressed (according to the current
fashion for young gay men), social (to be found drinking in the bars
and dancing in the clubs) rather than political or individualistic,
into dance music (rather than opera or c&w, say), playful rather than
serious, uncoupled, sexually vanilla. many cute young gay men -
actually, most, this being the way of stereotypes - lack one or
another of the characteristics, which are themselves value-neutral.
(we come with smooth or hairy bodies, we choose to grow mustaches and
beards or not, we have our individual tastes in music, our own
favorite ways of spending time, and so on - none of this is
intrinsically bad or good.)
"attitude" (sniffy exclusiveness) and "airheadedness" (not so much
ignorance or stupidity as triviality, inconsequentiality), which are,
i take it, Not Good, aren't part of the package for most of us, bud.
for george, yes. (we all have our personal associations for lots
of things; for instance, i get real edgy about people flying the
american flag, because i tend to think that their doing so is a
kind of symbolic claim of my country for *people who are not like
me* - but i understand that this is a personal association,
certainly not a defining property of flag-flying.)
george's definition is a lot like a definition of GAY that
included references to unhappiness, self-loathing, and
compulsive promiscuity, along with sexual attraction to motss.
well, some people think like that...
i don't know, bud, maybe you are a twink, maybe you fancy the type,
maybe (like me) you seem not to have any in your life [hmm...michaelh,
could we have an opinion on this?], maybe (like george) you
avoid them, whatever. enjoy.
me, i'm happy that there are all sorts in the world, and that all of
us don't suit everybody else's tastes. [let's see: too hairy for
some, too old for others, too small a cock for another bunch, too
academic for yet another, not faggy enough for some, too much of a
bottom for others, and on and on. there are plenty left.] what a
featureless gray plain of sexuality that would be.
arnold
rlc...@zeus.tamu.edu
a...@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M. Zwicky) writes...
>the stereotypical twink - the guy most of us picture when we hear the
>word - is also white, middle-class, smooth, blond, slim rather than
>hunky (a bodybuilding twink is not a contradiction in terms, just an
>uncommon combination), fashionably dressed (according to the current
>fashion for young gay men), social (to be found drinking in the bars
>and dancing in the clubs) rather than political or individualistic,
>into dance music (rather than opera or c&w, say), playful rather than
>serious, uncoupled, sexually vanilla. many cute young gay men -
>actually, most, this being the way of stereotypes - lack one or
>another of the characteristics, which are themselves value-neutral.
========================================================================
Oh! "BIFF." Well, why didn't you all say so? This image is
BIFF to me.
========================================================================
>i don't know, bud, maybe you are a twink, maybe you fancy the type,
>maybe (like me) you seem not to have any in your life [hmm...michaelh,
>could we have an opinion on this?], maybe (like george) you
>avoid them, whatever. enjoy.
========================================================================
Would have to get to know a Twinkie to really tell. Me, no I
am just well-dressed, but not smooth, nor blond. But I could get used
to such things!
But what would life be to //not// enjoy twinks or non-twinks?
Bud Cox
rlc...@Zeus.Tamu.Edu
William Tsun-Yuk Hsu
>In France, one would think the type would be called "Madelines" after
>a delicious biscuit similar to twinkies.
But once you've had a Madeline you'll never touch a twinkie again!
Twinkies don't even splatter when dropped from a great height. Who
would *dream* of doing the same to a Madeline?
(I'm talking about the baked varieties, of course.)
Bill
Steve Dyer
>[let's see: too hairy for some, too old for others, too small a cock for
>another bunch, too academic for yet another, not faggy enough for some, too
>much of a bottom for others, and on and on. there are plenty left.]
Arnold, how can there be "too too" of any of these? A older, hairy, butch
academic bottom with a cock of the size that he doesn't faint when he gets
hard? You're describing my fantasy man. (You know, I was about to post this
off when I realized that I was describing my lover, too. Interesting. :-))
--
Steve Dyer
dy...@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
"Proletarii vcex stran, izvinite!" -- Anon.
Joshua Geller
In article <1991Aug29....@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>
cki...@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Charles Kirby) writes:
|> In article <46...@cup.portal.com> Fu...@cup.portal.com (George Dalton
|> Madison) writes:
|> >A CYT (Cute Young Thing), usually with Attitude From Hell.
|> >Fashion-conscious, airheaded, and frequently blonde.
|> From what I have seen, twink(ie) is often used disparagingly (unlike
|> "bear", for some reason). Is there a non-derogatory classification for
|> a CYT, not necessarily with an AFH, not necessarily airheaded, not
|> necessarily blond? Is it CYT?
fucksicle?
josh
"Mastery in warfare consists of winning without fighting."
Sun Tzu
George Dalton Madison
>I write:
> [description of a Twink]
>>A CYT (Cute Young Thing), usually with Attitude From Hell.
>>Fashion-conscious, airheaded, and frequently blonde.
>
>Does that mean that a Bear is:
>
>Let's get our generalisations straight, dear.
That's precisely what I did. Y'all really shouldn't lay
on the bottom of the pool for more than 4-5 minutes without
scuba gear, you know.....
() Dress for success: wear a white penis.
() -- Max Vasilatos
George Dalton Madison
>Things Twinks have said to me:
>
>Viewing my house: "You've read all these books?"
>Trying for Conversation: "Like, you know, I'm sure..."
>Waiter in Restaurant: "You must be Taurus. Only Taurus orders Carpaccio."
>Exercising in Gym: "You shouldn't drink coke. It is bad for you."
>Good reaction: "Oh my GAAAAAWD!" seeing me sniffing a Magic Marker
*** zzzzZZAP! ***
Into the QuotesFile!
() Blessed are the young, for they shall inherit the
() national debt.
Arnold M. Zwicky
the point here is that there is a match for every taste. i would
never have posted my wryly self-deprecating inventory (all of it true)
if i didn't have such a supportive matrix of friends and lovers,
who find me to their tastes (and who i find to mine). so i can
joke about it, and steve can take up my joke. this is nice;
jacques and i both roared, by the way.
arnold [in a real *mellow* mood]
Charles Kirby
>Fashion-conscious, airheaded, and frequently blonde.
From what I have seen, twink(ie) is often used disparagingly (unlike "bear",
for some reason). Is there a non-derogatory classification for
a CYT, not necessarily with an AFH, not necessarily airheaded, not
necessarily blond? Is it CYT?
chas
Greg Parkinson
|> In article <1991Aug29....@cis.ohio-state.edu> a...@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M. Zwicky) writes:
|> >[let's see: too hairy for some, too old for others, too small a cock for
|> >another bunch, too academic for yet another, not faggy enough for some, too
|> >much of a bottom for others, and on and on. there are plenty left.]
|>
|> Arnold, how can there be "too too" of any of these? A older, hairy, butch
|> academic bottom with a cock of the size that he doesn't faint when he gets
|> hard? You're describing my fantasy man. (You know, I was about to post this
|> off when I realized that I was describing my lover, too. Interesting. :-))
Steve, I've got someone you've just gotta meet. Except for
the older part. He's got a butt that causes mice to be
generated from wheat and sweaty clothes, a furry chest that
inspires bees to build cathedrals, eyes responsible
for those tiny variations in the rotation of the earth,
and a beard which when buried between my legs makes
quantum theory clear.
Then again, maybe I should hide him for a while......
--
Greg Parkinson (GregBear) Phone: 212-657-7814
Citibank Fax: 212-825-8607
111 Wall Street E-Mail: uunet!ibism!glp
New York, NY 10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Greg Parkinson
|> George Dalton Madison growls:
|>
|> > [description of a Twink]
|>
|> >A CYT (Cute Young Thing), usually with Attitude From Hell.
|> >Fashion-conscious, airheaded, and frequently blonde.
feelings expressed here come from being excluded from
the inner twink circle (not to be confused with healing
the inner twinkie) early in one's gay life.
Let me be fair and speak for myself. When I was first
coming out, the people who seemed the most popular were
the twinks. They were glittery and glib and mostly shallow
and stupid but they were the perceived "in-group". I felt
excluded because I just didn't look like that or act like
that. I was too furry and dark-haired and not-pretty. But
they were the perceived center of the gay society that was
available to me at the time - college and bars that my
friends went to. When I looked at ads, at porno, at who
my friends directed their "he's soooooo cuuuuute!" I saw
the twinkie ideal. They got invited to parties. They
got boyfriends.
For me, coming out was part of growing up in general and
that meant learning to like who I was. I also grew into
my body, started working out, got beefier, and found
out that the adult me was a lot more attractive than the
post-adolescent me. I moved to the East Coast and found
more people that I found attractive. I don't find the
standard twink attractive, and rarely do they find me
attractive. Fine. I really don't care.
But I used to feel resentment. I hated when I would
get dragged to Uncle Charlie's (serious twink bar) and
*no one* would look at me. I hated when I would go
to a party and my twink-appearing friends would be
surrounded by admirers and I would sit by myself.
I hated that I didn't fit. And I hated *them* for it.
I now feel no differently about obnoxious twinks
than about high-school cliques. But sometimes the
taste of sour grapes is difficult to wash out of
your mouth.
Henry Mensch
->the point here is that there is a match for every taste.
it's so sad that this is one of the things that just isn't taught
until it's too late ...
--
# Henry Mensch / Advanced Decision Systems / <he...@ads.com>
ja...@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
> Golden brown or yellow on the outside; creamy, fluffy white one the
> inside.
And Twinkies don't make good f*ckers because they tend to get everything
messy (that is, unless they're stale).
--
Jason Coughlin
( ja...@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com, j...@sun.soe.clarkson.edu )
"I find myself suddenly in the world and I recognize that I have one
right alone: That of demanding human behavior from the other." -- Fanon
Tad Worley
>a...@gecko.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M. Zwicky) wrote:
>->the point here is that there is a match for every taste.
>
>it's so sad that this is one of the things that just isn't taught
>until it's too late ...
>
a very pretty view of the world. But when observing real life, one
will find that people of all types end up together. The last time
I was in Joplin, Missouri, I noticed quite a few large women attatched
to short skinny guys. They say that opposites attract. Some consider
me to be of the twinky variety, and the men I am usually attracted to
are of the bearish type. My tastes are extreemly different than
most of my friends. Since I am not usually attracted to men that look like
me, I thank Goddess that we all have different tastes.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Tad Worley Dear Mummy dear Daddy now I'm 19 as you see
wor...@HQ.M4.metaphor.com I'm handsome, tall & strong. So what the
Metaphor Computer Systems hell gives you the right to look at me as
Mt. View, CA if to say "Hell, what went wrong?"-G.Michael
Doug Gault
>
> In my exposure to Soc.Motss so far, I have been unable to determine
> what people mean by the term "twinkie" or "twink." What is it?
>
I think it was described best by the phrase:
"Golden, Cream filled, and ready to be eaten..."
Basically it refers to people who look (or aspire to look) like
the 'pretty boy' GQ (or more recently GENRE) models.
I personally like to have at least one twinky after every meal!
<GRIN>
Doogie.
*******************=======================================================
* --------------- * Doug Gault Ph: 214/826-7862 *
* \ Apartment / * Address: 4216 Lafayette #916 *
* \ / * do...@aptzero.lonestar.org Dallas Tx 75204 *
* \ Zero / * uunet!digi!dinosaur!aptzero!doug *
* \ / * -----------------------------------------------------*
* \ / * The only difference between a man and a machine is *
* \ / * that a machine is quiet when well oiled.... *
********************======================================================
Wayne Hughes
>
>I personally like to have at least one twinky after every meal!
>
><GRIN>
>
>Doogie.
>
Yes, but half an hour later you're hungry all over again.
_____________________________________________________________________
Wayne Hughes E-mail to hug...@dogwood.botany.uga.edu
H-mail to Botany Dept., University of Georgia
Athens, GA 30602 USA
_____________________________________________________________________
Rod Williams
>the point here is that there is a match for every taste. i would
>never have posted my wryly self-deprecating inventory (all of it true)
>if i didn't have such a supportive matrix of friends and lovers,
>who find me to their tastes (and who i find to mine). so i can
>joke about it, and steve can take up my joke. this is nice;
>jacques and i both roared, by the way.
^^^^^^
Well...seems that arnold has now defined
lions, *and* twinkies, *and* bears (oh my!)
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
R O D W I L L I A M S P A C I F I C * B E L L
S A N F R A N C I S C O , C A L I F O R N I A
=========================================================================
Rob Boldbear
What does BIFF stand for?
--
Rob Bernardo (aka Rob Boldbear) r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (415) 827-4301 (hm)
"Patriotism once meant the Home of the Brave and the Land of the Free;
now it means the Home of the Fearful and the Land of the Mindless."
-- Jess Anderson
George Dalton Madison
>From what I have seen, twink(ie) is often used disparagingly (unlike "bear",
>for some reason). Is there a non-derogatory classification for
>a CYT, not necessarily with an AFH, not necessarily airheaded, not
>necessarily blond? Is it CYT?
There was a bit of an argument about this on .motss a number of
months ago, so I will preface this by saying that this is the way
I hear these words being used in LA and SF.
You are correct; "Twinkie" carries the connotations of arrogance
and airheadedness that "CYT" does not. No one uses "Bear"
disparagingly, because -- well, who wants to face a pissed-off Bear?
;-{)##]
() If you think that mental illness interferes with
() financial success, just look at the average television
() evangelist.
George Dalton Madison
>I hate to say this, but I think a lot of the anti-twink
>feelings expressed here come from being excluded from
>the inner twink circle (not to be confused with healing
>the inner twinkie) early in one's gay life.
Perhaps for some.... In my case, I think it
is, rather, the experiences I've had more recently.
I resent the fact that Twinkies have a (virtual) stranglehold on
male imagery in the gay media; porn aside, when was the last time
you saw an ad for -- say -- a gay cruise, or whatever -- that had
models that were NOT Icons Of Twinkdom?
I resent the fact that, here in LA, the Twinkies seem to feel
that ANY gaymale space is *THEIRS*, and they may behave any way
they wish to -- even if we're talking about a leather bar and
they're running a "point and giggle" routine, or having shrieking
bitch fits in a sleazy sex club because someone dared to GROPE
them.
The one thing I find somewhat heartening is that this particular
*INTENSITY* of Twinkdom seems to be particular to Los Angeles.
While San Francisco undoubtedly has its share of Twinkies, I
don't see them causing the problems in the Lone Star Saloon
that they cause in Griff's and the Gauntlet II here in LA,
and I don't hear the shrieking bitches in the Night Gallery
or other SF `clubs' that I do in certain similar clubs here in
the City of Lost Angels.
() The Constitution doesn't mean that everyone is as good as
() everyone else, it means that everyone should have the
() same LAWS as everybody else. It doesn't mean that
() everybody is as smart or as cute or as lucky as everybody
() else. People have distorted the idea of democracy.
() -- Fran Lebowitz
Tezcatlipocateopixque
>Golden brown or yellow on the outside; creamy, fluffy white one the
>inside.
Purina Dan White Chow.
--
Vote YES for KEVIN DARCY to sit beside Theodore A. Kaldis
on the COUNCIL OF NET.IDIOTS. Send your vote to
kee...@crdgw1.crd.ge.com and help Kevin win!
Tezcatlipocateopixque
>I was too furry and dark-haired
Furry, Greg? *YOU*? Really?
>and not-pretty.
That's because you are neither chintz nor an orchid.
Arnold M. Zwicky
notes my remark that
>>jacques and i both roared, by the way.
^^^^^^
and comments:
>Well...seems that arnold has now defined
>lions, *and* twinkies, *and* bears (oh my!).
i'm starting to wonder about the inventory of recognized Types for gay
men. most of us recognize Twinks, Queens, Leathermen, Bears, and
(bodybuilder) Hunks. for each type we have characteristic physical
appearance, dress, behaviors (including sexual behaviors), social
roles. (i'm talking about real men here, not the icons of gay male
fantasy - the surfer boy, the repairman, the motorcycle cop, the jock,
etc.)
these are cultural categories. they change over time. new ones
appear (the Leatherman is recent, the Bear very recent), old ones
vanish (though individual aunties and clones are still to be found -
arch-clone jimmy pike is still making videos and keeping his stomach
muscles in great shape - the Auntie and the Clone as generally
recognized categories are no longer with us). membership in the types
can overlap - Leather Bear is a widely recognized hybrid - but the
prototypes are pretty far apart.
it is useful to have these categories - some attention to opera and
cooking with a Leatherman or a Queen is probably in order, but would
most likely be wasted on a Hunk or a Twink - up to a point. so long
as you understand that most real people aren't particularly close
to any of the prototypes.
now one of the fascinating facts about cultural categories is that
not all of them have generally recognized names; scholars of culture
should be thankful for this, since it provides them with a livelihood.
what i mean is, people will think that various objects, events,
people are "alike", are "the same kind of thing", without necessarily
having a label for the set in question. these are *covert* types,
and discovering them gives you a nice "aha" experience (not as good
as an orgasm, maybe, but longer-lasting and recapturable).
from steve dyer (who might or might not be its ultimate source) i have
the recognition of the covert type he's labeled Otter. the
prototypical characteristics of which (the first couple from steve,
the rest from me) are: sleekly (rather than bushily) hairy,
lean-muscled, tall, brown-haired, seriously playful, food-loving, verbal
rather than visual, athletic but not jocky, a swimmer and runner,
flexible in his tastes, inclined to pair-bonding *and* to a variety of
auxiliary relationships (people with nasty mouths would say "married
slut" or "cheat"), butch but quite happy as a bottom.
i recognize myself pretty well in this description (though i'm neither
a swimmer nor a runner, and i'm just of average height), and all the
men i have loved, from my first male lover, larry, through my partner
of fifteen years, jacques; in the case of "tim" (hey, tim, ya wanna
come out of the onomastic closet, or do you like this dual life?),
this was no accident, because i was attracted to him in part because
of how much he reminded me of larry. having the label Otter for all
of us was a real aha-experience for me, since i hadn't appreciated all
the similarities and since the Otter is, in physical appearance,
pretty far from (what i thought was) my Fantasy Man. (mick
washbrooke and i seem to have pretty much the same F.M.)
so for me there is a recognizable gay-world Type here. is it
just me?
(the idea of a Lion - large, fierce, muscled, furry, tawny (jojo?) - is
certainly compelling, but i guess that's a Fantasy Man, not
a gay-cultural category...)
George Dalton Madison
>rlc...@zeus.tamu.edu wrote:
>> Oh! "BIFF." Well, why didn't you all say so? This image is
>>BIFF to me.
>
>What does BIFF stand for?
Sounds like "A Name Attached To A Type." --like "Muffy" for a
preppy female, or "Tiffany" and "Sean" for Valley Girls & Dudes.
() I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone,
() but they've always worked for me.
() -- Hunter S. Thompson
ja...@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
> Would have to get to know a Twinkie to really tell.
Ummmm, let's start from the top. This is a twinkie. This is a twinkie
on drugs. Any questions?
Jeff Anderson
In my exposure to Soc.Motss so far, I have been unable to determine
what people mean by the term "twinkie" or "twink." What is it?
George Dalton Madison writes:
A CYT (Cute Young Thing), usually with Attitude From Hell.
Fashion-conscious, airheaded, and frequently blonde.
Don't forget they usually wear lots of hairspray and you can smell their
cologne two blocks away.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Anderson "BEND OVER, I'll drive" je...@sporty.col.oh.us
H: 614-252-7563 -- bumper sticker. j...@rsch.oclc.org
W: 614-764-6222 B7 f+ t w dc g+ k+ s- e r je...@sporty.UUCP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Clark
>i'm starting to wonder about the inventory of recognized Types for gay
>men. most of us recognize Twinks, Queens, Leathermen, Bears, and
>(bodybuilder) Hunks. for each type we have characteristic physical
>appearance, dress, behaviors (including sexual behaviors), social
>roles. (i'm talking about real men here, not the icons of gay male
>fantasy - the surfer boy, the repairman, the motorcycle cop, the jock,
>etc.)
> [ ... ]
>from steve dyer (who might or might not be its ultimate source) i have
>the recognition of the covert type he's labeled Otter. the
>prototypical characteristics of which (the first couple from steve,
>the rest from me) are: sleekly (rather than bushily) hairy,
>lean-muscled, tall, brown-haired, seriously playful, food-loving, verbal
>i recognize myself pretty well in this description (though i'm neither
>of fifteen years, jacques; in the case of "tim" (hey, tim, ya wanna
>come out of the onomastic closet, or do you like this dual life?),
> [ ... ]
>the similarities and since the Otter is, in physical appearance,
>pretty far from (what i thought was) my Fantasy Man. (mick
>washbrooke and i seem to have pretty much the same F.M.)
>so for me there is a recognizable gay-world Type here. is it
>just me?
>(the idea of a Lion - large, fierce, muscled, furry, tawny (jojo?) - is
>certainly compelling, but i guess that's a Fantasy Man, not
>a gay-cultural category...)
I simply don't understand what the HELL this guy is talking about.
Joe Clark
ontmoh!joec...@nexus.yorku.ca
Tezcatlipocateopixque
>What does BIFF stand for?
What does Rob stand for?
Arnold M. Zwicky
Clark) quotes a chunk of a posting of mine and adds:
>I simply don't understand what the HELL this guy is talking about.
Boswell reports that when Dr. Johnson was badgered by "a pertinacious
gentlemen" who complained that he didn't understand what Johnson
had said in a lecture, Dr. J. retorted: "I have given you an
argument; I am not obliged to supply you with an understanding."
Arnold [who was so pleased at finding a use for this quotation
that he exploded into capitalization; don't worry,
it will pass]
George Dalton Madison
>Bud Cox writes:In my exposure to Soc.Motss so far, I have been unable to
>
>George Dalton Madison writes:A CYT (Cute Young Thing), usually with Attitude
>
>Don't forget they usually wear lots of hairspray and you can smell their
>cologne two blocks away.
Jeff, Jeff, Jeff.... you lucky Bear, you! You've obviously not
had enough forced exposure to Twinkies to know that they would
not be caught DEAD wearing *hairspray* -- they all use MOUSSE!
But y'all are dead right about the perfume. Two of the local
sleaze clubs have "NO PERFUME" rules -- one with a sign that
says, "We don't *WANT* it to stink pretty in here!" ;-{)##]
() Military intelligence is a contradiction in terms.
() -- Groucho Marx
Gnome in Training
>of fifteen years, jacques; in the case of "tim" (hey, tim, ya wanna
>come out of the onomastic closet, or do you like this dual life?),
Actually, I do like the dual life - I keep hoping that some day I will
actually make it to a motsscon, and since I post so infrequently (and
as far as I can tell, my posts make it out even less frequently;
though I am glad to notice that the Arnold/Lycra post seems to have
managed a good deal of distribution), that I will introduce myself
with the famous Holy Grail line, `There are those who call me "tim"',
and be recognized only from your descriptions.
But wait, by posting this, everyone knows that I am "tim"; Oh!, I am
undone. Or is it just my button fly?
Dean ("waiting for Lycra")
--
Dean Allemang / alle...@ifi.unizh.ch
Institut fuer Informatik / with a `g' -^
Universitaet Zuerich / all...@cis.ohio-state.edu
/ ^-- without a `g'
Arnold M. Zwicky
Eundone, by the way. (or done...somebody, stop me!)
a couple of years ago dean reported that he was beginning to develop
an infatuation with tim, dean's net-counterpart in my postings. i
thought this was charming - they're both great guys - but a little
odd. now i have created this fictional character, named (alas)
"arnold zwicky", and i find that i have an increasingly complex
relationship with him; i envy him (he's sexier than i am, bolder,
messes up a lot less than i do), i resent him (he horns in on my life,
and he just won't go away), i'm turned on by him. the more i
edit and re-write, the less like me he becomes, and the more
edgy-attractive he becomes to me. strange stuff.
so now there are four of us, dean and "tim" and me and "arnold".
think of the possibilities for double dating... (hmm..,maybe
the only pairings that would really work are the ones already
tried, dean and me, "tim" and "arnold".)
meanwhile, i have two pseudonyms, ebbing kraft (for writing burlesques
of linguistics articles) and alex[ander] adams (for making
reservations and giving names places where "arnold zwicky" might end
up as "harold sooie", especially over the phone). ebbing has no real
life of his own yet, but alex has developed as a
me-in-other-emotional-clothing, so to speak. he's me, but when he was
created (back in the early 70s) he was a different slice of me from
the person most people saw then. alex was not only the guy who made
reservations at restaurants and the barber's and so on; he was also
the guy who cruised in t-rooms and the baths. so he ended up being a
wilder, sleazier, less inhibited version of me; presenting myself as
alex gave/gives me a bit more confidence and daring. [i haven't
failed to notice that in becoming alex i reject my funny names and
erase my ethnic identity; this is scarcely admirable, but not
surprising from someone who had repudiated his native regional dialect
before the age of 12. closets within closets.]
[the story of "becoming alex" and its consequences is going to be in
my novel-in-progress, but of course that will be about "arnold"
becoming "alex", and it won't be the same story as mine.]
we could have our own motsscon: me and dean and "arnold" and "tim"
and alex and ebbing and "alex". we could start posting separately,
from different machines. (i can post here from: iguana skink turtle
anaconda gecko tortoise. every one a winner. iguana is my
natural machine, i don't know why, maybe just because there isn't
a penguin. but we could have alex@skink flaming ebbing@tortoise
about ebbing's inattention to the emotional needs of tim@gecko
and the crudeness of "arnold"@anaconda's relationship with him.
round and round run the permutations until reels the mind.)
arnold [dizzy but still writing]
Bud Cox
/=======================================================================\
>I hate to say this, but I think a lot of the anti-twink
>feelings expressed here come from being excluded from
>the inner twink circle (not to be confused with healing
>the inner twinkie) early in one's gay life.
>
[lots of explanation of adolescent twinkie-loathing deleted]
\=======================================================================/
So, basically, then, the "gay culture" is split into two major
groups, "Twinkies" and "Bears", each having distaste for the other,
most likely fueled by feelings of peer-alienation.
"Twinkies" are those whom "bears" admit to be cute, while bears are
those who consider themselves to be irreconciliably non-twink.
Maybe it sounds too much like a tautalogy, but it really seems to be
what I get out of the explanations.
Do the two groups mingle, or is our gay world operably dichotomic?
Bud Cox
/=======================================================================\
r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (Rob Boldbear) writes...
>> Oh! "BIFF." Well, why didn't you all say so? This image is
>>BIFF to me.
>What does BIFF stand for?
\=======================================================================/
Rather, "For what does BIFF stand?" I'm not sure, but I imagine
he stands for anything that turns him on. Next time I see him, I'll try
and determine that things that do the trick.
Phil Fernandez
>I resent the fact that Twinkies have a (virtual) stranglehold on
>male imagery in the gay media; porn aside, when was the last time
>you saw an ad for -- say -- a gay cruise, or whatever -- that had
>models that were NOT Icons Of Twinkdom?
Yow! I guess we have different ideas of "twinkie"! A quick
page-through of the last several Advocates doesn't reveal, to me, a
single twinkie-in-ad. Hunks yes. Clones (arnold's declaration of
obsolescence notwithstanding) yes. Even a few bears, yes. But
twinks?
I suspect this is an "in the eye of the beholder" situation -- all of
the men in these ads are too old to qualify as twinks in my book.
pmf
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Fernandez ______ ph...@metaphor.com
Director, Patriot \ / ...!{apple|decwrl}!metaphor!philf
Platform Development \ /
Metaphor Computer Systems \/ "Does the body rule the mind, or does the
Mountain View, CA mind rule the body? I dunno..." - Morrissey
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wayne Hughes
>In article <46...@cup.portal.com> Fu...@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
>>male imagery in the gay media; porn aside, when was the last time
>>you saw an ad for -- say -- a gay cruise, or whatever -- that had
>>models that were NOT Icons Of Twinkdom?
Phil Fernandez differs:
>Yow! I guess we have different ideas of "twinkie"! A quick
>page-through of the last several Advocates doesn't reveal, to me, a
>single twinkie-in-ad. Hunks yes. Clones (arnold's declaration of
>obsolescence notwithstanding) yes. Even a few bears, yes. But
>twinks?
>
>I suspect this is an "in the eye of the beholder" situation -- all of
>the men in these ads are too old to qualify as twinks in my book.
I would agree with George if he were to complain about Twinkies'
stranglehold on social situations. Clones and hunks dominating (!)
male imagery I can see, but Twinks? Really.
If I may be so bad as to generalize horribly, Twinkies as I have
come to identify them from foregoing posts are rather gregarious
(safety in numbers?) and at least appear to occupy much more space
than is physically possible. As a result, those of us who in
reality probably intimidate(d) a given twiggle of Twinks were made
to feel like we were on the outside.
I'm not defending them, y'understand :) .
George Dalton Madison
>As a result, those of us who in
> reality probably intimidate(d) a given twiggle of Twinks were made
> to feel like we were on the outside.
and clusters of these creatures! ;-)
() Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance
() of a good example.
() -- Mark Twain
George Dalton Madison
> So, basically, then, the "gay culture" is split into two major
>groups, "Twinkies" and "Bears",
No. There are a lot of people in the gay male community who are
neither Twinkies nor Bears.
>Do the two groups mingle, or is our gay world operably
>dichotomic?
Not often and not well. Most Twinkies would tend to consider the
average Bear to be too hairy, overweight, too old, and generally
ugly. Many Bears would consider the average Twinkie to be
nauseatingly overperfumed, obnoxious, and far too closely
resembling a prepubescent female to be attractive.
() Blessed are the young, for they shall inherit the
() national debt.
Bud Cox
writes...
There are a lot of people in the gay male community who are
neither Twinkies nor Bears.
\==============================================================================/
Yeah, I admit that I like a little fur, but not a lot. So, I
guess I'm a Twinkie Bear.
If there are Bear codes, are there also Twinkie codes?
Wayne Hughes
>In article <46...@cup.portal.com>, Fu...@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
>writes...
>
>There are a lot of people in the gay male community who are
>neither Twinkies nor Bears.
And Bud responds...
>\==============================================================================/
> Yeah, I admit that I like a little fur, but not a lot. So, I
>guess I'm a Twinkie Bear.
>
> If there are Bear codes, are there also Twinkie codes?
>
>Bud
>rlc...@zeus.tamu.edu
And I say,
Yes, but they're all of the form *!!**!*!!!^^***!!!!*^^$$$$$$$.
And no one knows what they mean...
Respectfully submitted, Wayne.
Jack Hamilton
>I resent the fact that Twinkies have a (virtual) stranglehold on
>male imagery in the gay media; porn aside, when was the last time
>you saw an ad for -- say -- a gay cruise, or whatever -- that had
>models that were NOT Icons Of Twinkdom?
Today. The RSVP Cruises brochure that I received last week (no idea why I
got it) shows a number of people who are dark-haired, or losing their hair,
or have hairy bodies.
--
Jack Hamilton j...@netcom.com
Roger B.A. Klorese
>>Do the two groups mingle, or is our gay world operably
>>dichotomic?
>
>Not often and not well. Most Twinkies would tend to consider the
>average Bear to be too hairy, overweight, too old, and generally
>ugly. Many Bears would consider the average Twinkie to be
>nauseatingly overperfumed, obnoxious, and far too closely
>resembling a prepubescent female to be attractive.
This, of course, only explains why they (sometimes) tend not to "date,"
not why they don't hang out together. Of course, in my experience, they
often do, but that's because some of us are willing to deal with others on
terms that are at least partly their own. Why, some of my best friends
(and sex-partners) don't stink of motor oil! Some of them even spend more
than a minute combing their hair, and use a comb or a brush instead of
a squeegee or a rake.
What it comes down to is the fact that this twinks-vs.-bears jive
is a lot of hooey; it's there to the extent that you wish to see
it there. Sure, there are CYTs that wouldn't be caught dead with
a big smelly ol' M-A-N, and grizzly-bears who think the boy next
door needs to put on a hundred pounds, six inches (height, I mean...
get your mind back up on the curb) and a pound and a half of facial
and body hair.
But then there's the guy I met at a club last week who, after we
fooled around for a half hour or so, pointed out that he recognized
me from the overlapping circles we run in (I think his quote was,
"if they've got stickers on their leather jackets, we've probably
both had them"). When I reached for a pen to write our numbers
down, someone else said about me, "You must be over thirty, they're
the only ones who carry pens," and he said, "Really?" I said, "Over
thirty-five, actually," and he said, "Oh, so much the better."
And then, more important, the guy I spent what seemed like half a
lifetime cruising a couple of weeks ago. Seems I was standing
there thinking "Do I have any chance with a CYT like that?" to
myself, and he was standing at the pinball machine wondering if
I'd ever ask. I bought the drinks, he put the quarters in the
machine, and one thing, as they say, led to another (though it took
more days than either of us would have liked, alas). Even with
the leather vest, some people would have thought "surfer kid" before
"hot man"; good, more for me.
Yes, of course there's more media attention paid to the traditionally
"pretty" or "handsome" than to all other groups. But this isn't just
a particularly gay thing, and instead of whining about it, we should
put our time into getting the other images out there (failure to try
to get those images out there is not, I should add, one of the things
for which I would find fault with you, George).
And who defines their social circles strictly in terms of who they'd
fuck, anyway?!
--
ROGER B.A. KLORESE +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rog...@unpc.QueerNet.ORG {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"To live outside the law, you must be honest." -- Robert Zimmerman
Joseph Francis
>groups, "Twinkies" and "Bears", each having distaste for the other,
>most likely fueled by feelings of peer-alienation.
> "Twinkies" are those whom "bears" admit to be cute, while bears are
>those who consider themselves to be irreconciliably non-twink.
> Maybe it sounds too much like a tautalogy, but it really seems to be
>what I get out of the explanations.
> Do the two groups mingle, or is our gay world operably dichotomic?
I have lately overcome my initial magnetic repulsion of twinkies by
being exposed to the Parisian variety; often suicidally hairy, a
result of Mediterranean background, yet slender and with that
table-leg hateful thing. It has spilled over so that I can imagine
an evening with the blond variety. But don't quote me on this.
I want to propose a new word for the group of people formerly
adequately described as 'bears'. It is 'berry', and 'berries'. It has
the charm of 'twink', 'twinkie', and 'twinkies' in that it is
reasonably abstract, doesn't actually describe them, yet sounds
appropriate, and indefinably cutesy.
"Yes, he's a berry". "She's quite a berry." It is fairly gender
neutral, and can describe both large interesting men and large
interesting women. There can be smooth berries, and hairy berries,
alpine berries, and exotic berries. Vanilla, chocolate, straw,
mandarin berries. Berries you can sink your teeth into; Berry juice;
Cherry berries, green berries, unpicked berries. Berry good, and berry
berry bad. Listen to Berry white. Hetberries. Biberries. Love is a
berry tender thing.
--
| Le Jojo: Fresh 'n' Clean, speaking out to the way you want to live
| today; American - All American; doing, a bit so, and even more so.
Rob Boldbear
> So, basically, then, the "gay culture" is split into two major
>groups, "Twinkies" and "Bears",
This is simply not true.
--
Rob Bernardo (aka Rob Boldbear) r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (415) 827-4301 (hm)
"Patriotism once meant the Home of the Brave and the Land of the Free;
now it means the Home of the Fearful and the Land of the Mindless."
-- Jess Anderson
Rob Boldbear
>What does BIFF stand for?
bo...@spdcc.COM (Tezcatlipocateopixque) wrote:
>What does Rob stand for?
Robert. Okay, so back to ... What does BIFF stand for?
Rob Boldbear
>George Dalton Madison growls:
>
>> [description of a Twink]
>
>>A CYT (Cute Young Thing), usually with Attitude From Hell.
>>Fashion-conscious, airheaded, and frequently blonde.
>
>
>A UOT (Ugly Old Thing), usually with Attitude From Hell.
>Not fashion-conscious, airheaded, and frequently with hair of
>any color?
Close. Make that last "frequently with no head hair".
Ron Rizzo
>a...@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M. Zwicky) writes this stuff:
>
>>(the idea of a Lion - large, fierce, muscled, furry, tawny (jojo?) - is
>>certainly compelling, but i guess that's a Fantasy Man, not
>>a gay-cultural category...)
>
What? You've never met a lion? They used to haunt Pacific Heights
in SF. Maybe you should change your jungle, or call Rent-A-Beast to
lease a big cat. ;^)
Ronald Rizzo
John Fisher
joec...@ontmoh.UUCP (Joe Clark) writes:
> [extensive Zwicky quotes deleted]
>
> I simply don't understand what the HELL this guy is talking about.
Someone who can't understand Arnold. Now I've seen it all.
--John
John Fisher
a...@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M. Zwicky) writes:
> [...]
> a couple of years ago dean reported that he was beginning to develop
> an infatuation with tim, dean's net-counterpart in my postings. i
> thought this was charming - they're both great guys - but a little
> odd. now i have created this fictional character, named (alas)
> "arnold zwicky", and i find that i have an increasingly complex
> relationship with him;
> [...]
> meanwhile, i have two pseudonyms, ebbing kraft (for writing burlesques
> of linguistics articles) and alex[ander] adams (for making
> reservations and giving names places where "arnold zwicky" might end
> up as "harold sooie", especially over the phone).
> [...]
I also have a shadow, who's been following me around for years. He's
called "Jack Ryan". Jack is a harder, meaner person than me. In the
more boring part of his life, he has accounts on bulletin boards, has
subscribed to magazines and stuff like that. He also writes poetry
which once or twice has been published, and which gives evidence of a
far more extravagant and interesting life than I lead.
But Jack is a Bolshevik, like his father Paddy. By coincidence, Paddy
Ryan followed my father around in a similar way. At one time he had
quite a lurid life as an agitator and Communist Party member, and was
something of an embarassment to my father, who was a respectable
physician with a government job. Amongst other things, Paddy wrote
quite a famous song, "The Man who Waters the Workers' Beer", which is
still occasionally performed. (Jack dreams sometimes of claiming the
royalties.) There are pictures of Paddy acting at London Unity Theatre,
playing opposite Paul Robeson in "Plant in the Sun", or in various
agitprop productions; in later years, my father used to boast of this
time, but I would notice Paddy smiling at him ironically.
For his part, Jack Ryan used to flirt with Trotskyist groupuscules, and
participated in the whole sixties political thing, sometimes in a fairly
prominent way. (He was rather an unpleasant young man in those days,
arrogant, deeply closeted, defensive and self-hating.) Nowadays, he is
more mischievous than properly political, and tends to do things like
ringing up phone-ins and taking a hard, neo-Stalinist line, just to
annoy liberals. He writes letters to newspapers, arguing fiercely for
things like independence for Scotland or the abolition of the age of
consent, ideas which I find interesting, but don't *quite* agree with.
In many ways, Jack and I are drifting apart; the more useful parts of
what Jack did, I now do myself, and what's left is looking more and more
like a family heirloom rather than a person.
All the same, when posting to soc.motss, I occasionally find Jack is
leaning over my shoulder, dictating...
--John
Paul Crowley
>When I reached for a pen to write our numbers down, someone else said
>about me, "You must be over thirty, they're the only ones who carry
>pens"
Counter-example: I carry a pen. I'm twenty.
____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley ai...@castle.ed.ac.uk \ /
/\__/ Part straight. Part gay. All queer. \/
"I say we kill him and eat his brain."
"That's not the solution to _every_ problem, you know!" -- Rudy Rucker
Henry Mensch
-> So, basically, then, the "gay culture" is split into two major
->groups, "Twinkies" and "Bears", each having distaste for the other,
->most likely fueled by feelings of peer-alienation.
nope; the gay culture is split into two major groups: those who insist
on strongly-typing potential mates, and those who don't.
-> "Twinkies" are those whom "bears" admit to be cute, while bears are
->those who consider themselves to be irreconciliably non-twink.
i don't think i've heard one self-described bear describe any twink
as "cute." maybe you're reading a different newsgroup?
--
# Henry Mensch / Advanced Decision Systems / <he...@ads.com>
Henry Mensch
->Bud Cox writes:
->> So, basically, then, the "gay culture" is split into two major
->>groups, "Twinkies" and "Bears",
->
->No. There are a lot of people in the gay male community who are
->neither Twinkies nor Bears.
thank ubizmo!
Anne H. Pfohl
fra...@ircam.fr (Joseph Francis) writes...
>I want to propose a new word for the group of people formerly
>adequately described as 'bears'. It is 'berry', and 'berries'.
> [...] Berries you can sink your teeth into; Berry juice;
>Cherry berries, green berries, unpicked berries. Berry good, and berry
>berry bad. Listen to Berry white. Hetberries. Biberries. Love is a
>berry tender thing.
.. and, ah, it's berry picking time...
Those berries are ripe for the picking...
For our final selection, we have Julie Andrews, in Victor/Victoria singing
her now weel-known rendition of "Berry Ripe" ...
For dessert, berry pie...
berries by the pint... the quart... the bush-el...
berries and sweet cream... whipped cream... and don't mind the seeds in your
teeth...
Anne
University at Buffalo Medical School - Office of Information Systems
======================================================================
*** Disclaimer...
*** These thoughts belong to -mi
-mi -mi
-mi -mi
mi -mi. Ahem. La la la...
*** Sounds like a personal problem to me... ***
======================================================================
ois...@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu | One more false move and I'll... I'll...
ois...@mednet.bitnet | sing a high C!
pf...@eng.buffalo.edu | - Dangerous Diva
Mick Washbrook
>
> I now feel no differently about obnoxious twinks
> than about high-school cliques. But sometimes the
> taste of sour grapes is difficult to wash out of
> your mouth.
Poor baby! Let me give you some succor, Greg, (quick,
while nobody's looking). Well, it might surprise you,
but twinks aren't the only ones with attitude. Kind
of reminds me when I attended a Bear Hug in San Fran-
cisco. Didn't get so much as a sniff. "Damn you all!"
I hissed, dashing my Martini to the ground in a
huff. I did an about-face, and flounced for the
door.
Actually, I was always disappointed I never got invited
to go boozing with the back-slapping rugby crowd when I
was at school.
Elaine Richards
Mighta been the Elephant Walk you tried to instigate :-)
ER
D. Owen Rowley
> rlc...@zeus.tamu.edu wrote:
> -> So, basically, then, the "gay culture" is split into two major
> ->groups, "Twinkies" and "Bears", each having distaste for the other,
> ->most likely fueled by feelings of peer-alienation.
> nope; the gay culture is split into two major groups: those who insist
> on strongly-typing potential mates, and those who don't.
fair enough..... so far
> -> "Twinkies" are those whom "bears" admit to be cute, while bears are
> ->those who consider themselves to be irreconciliably non-twink.
> i don't think i've heard one self-described bear describe any twink
> as "cute." maybe you're reading a different newsgroup?
are you two being deliberately obtuse or have you met your match henry :-)
( Just kidding guy!)
seriously, I must describe myself as bearish (what choice do i have)
but I've been known to please a twink or two in my time.
(preferably in groups :-)
First off I think that when one presupposes something about a person
by appearance alone one limits ones possibilities. I don't like it when I'm
discounted as a potential plaything because I'm large, but at the same time
I'm not particularly attracted to other large men either. Attrction factors
are strange things, I don't know anything about them except what attracts me
and wha doesn't. I also know that if a man has an attitude that I find
attractive , what he looks like is of no consequence.. and if a man has an
attitude I don't like, I don't care how *attractive* he is.
the word cute is often mistaken as some well defined standard..
Mick and I use the word cute to mean someone who makes our dick hard.
It is very rare that we both use that term for the same person.
LUX .. owen
--
D. Owen Rowley, {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen , { ow...@autodesk.com }
"Lets hear it for America, the only country left with a functioning Communist
party" Dennis Miller
George Dalton Madison
>I wrote:
>> Not often and not well. Most Twinkies would tend to consider the
>> average Bear to be too hairy, overweight, too old, and generally
>> ugly. Many Bears would consider the average Twinkie to be
>> nauseatingly overperfumed, obnoxious, and far too closely
>> resembling a prepubescent female to be attractive.
>
Jeff is in a class by himself. ;-)
() Censorship, like charity, should begin at home, but
() unlike charity, it should end there.
() -- Clare Boothe Luce
Mick Washbrook
>
> Not often and not well. Most Twinkies would tend to consider the
> average Bear to be too hairy, overweight, too old, and generally
> ugly. Many Bears would consider the average Twinkie to be
> nauseatingly overperfumed, obnoxious, and far too closely
> resembling a prepubescent female to be attractive.
Gosh! What a dichotomy! I wonder where we'd put Jeff Dauber?
Jeff Anderson
> If I may be so bad as to generalize horribly, Twinkies as I have
> come to identify them from foregoing posts are rather gregarious
> (safety in numbers?) and at least appear to occupy much more space
> than is physically possible. As a result, those of us who in
> reality probably intimidate(d) a given twiggle of Twinks were made
> to feel like we were on the outside.
Twinks have not made me feel like I was on the outside. I went through
my matching china and polo phase. After countless dinner parties (and a
room mate who was so into twinkidom it would nauseate), I finally decided
that nobody gives a shit if your china dosen't match. Now my parties are
bedecked with chinets. No Princess House crystal here -- if you don't
like your beer in a bottle, find a glass in the cabinets.
In the long and short of it, having the correct fashions, perfectly
decorated house, etc. was not very satisfying. I decidced to trade in my
Princess House crystal for a Harley Davidson.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Anderson "BEND OVER, I'll drive" je...@sporty.col.oh.us
H: 614-252-7563 -- bumper sticker. j...@rsch.oclc.org
W: 614-764-6222 B7 f+ t w dc g+ k+ s- e r je...@sporty.UUCP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
D. Owen Rowley
are we just being bitchy today dear?
but to answer your question..
why, on the bear of course..
:-)
Paul Asente
>nope; the gay culture is split into two major groups: those who insist
>on strongly-typing potential mates, and those who don't.
I wonder if this has any correlation with people who prefer Pascal to C.
-paul asente
ase...@adobe.com ...decwrl!adobe!asente moo-...@cs.stanford.edu
The evening was a huge success, in spite of someone fainting from
time to time.
Robert White
>>Oh, this is "Biff" to me
>What is Biff?
One might think to go back and red the long definition since the
rules of identity are clear here 8-)
--
Robert C. White Jr. | Though bitter, in many ways the small-
rwhite@jagat <look it up 8-)<| mindedness (if such a measure may be
"It's not apathy, per se, | taken) of your detractors is the proof
I just don't think I care" | that they themselves are vanquished.
"Like most endeavors, life is seriously over-advertised and under-funded"
Steve Dyer
>Twinks have not made me feel like I was on the outside. I went through
>my matching china and polo phase. After countless dinner parties (and a
>room mate who was so into twinkidom it would nauseate), I finally decided
>that nobody gives a shit if your china dosen't match. Now my parties are
>bedecked with chinets. No Princess House crystal here -- if you don't
>like your beer in a bottle, find a glass in the cabinets.
>In the long and short of it, having the correct fashions, perfectly
>Princess House crystal for a Harley Davidson.
Jeff, the mind boggles. This is only slightly less startling than
finding out that Furr used to work the men's cologne counters at
Nordstrom's and Jess Anderson used to be a longshoreman.
Got any pictures from back then?
Oh. What's a chinet (other than a computer in Illinois)? :-)
--
Steve Dyer
dy...@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Henry Mensch
->Actually, I was always disappointed I never got invited
->to go boozing with the back-slapping rugby crowd when I
->was at school.
i would hope it wasn't my back they were slapping ...
Henry Mensch
->What? You've never met a lion? They used to haunt Pacific Heights
->in SF. Maybe you should change your jungle, or call Rent-A-Beast to
->lease a big cat. ;^)
i *knew* there was a reason why i moved here ...
Joseph Francis
>>
>> I now feel no differently about obnoxious twinks
>Poor baby! Let me give you some succor, Greg, (quick,
No! Me first! (Succor that thang)
>but twinks aren't the only ones with attitude.
Somewhat like saying Lhasa-Apsos aren't the only ones with teeth...
>of reminds me when I attended a Bear Hug in San Fran-
>cisco. Didn't get so much as a sniff. "Damn you all!"
No no no! Think of Marlene Deitrich, in arched nostril barely open
mouthed fury:
Daaaaammmmmm youuuuuu!
>huff. I did an about-face, and flounced for the
>door.
>Actually, I was always disappointed I never got invited
>to go boozing with the back-slapping rugby crowd when I
>was at school.
A so-called straight roommate of mine in college was part of that
crowd (well, at Caltech the butch crowd was Water Polo.) And I went on
a motorcycle run with him one evening for Tommy's Hamburgers (you have
to live in LA). I was terrorized (yes, jojo) enough to vow to never
repeat the experience. I would settle now for the facial-masque
slapping apres-Minelli-retrospective tetherball crowd.
a flying squirrel
>Gosh! What a dichotomy! I wonder where we'd put Jeff Dauber?
On a rack, for starters.
--
richard w. johnson. apple computer europe. paris, france. ric...@apple.com
#include <witticism.h>
Greg Parkinson
|> >
|> > I now feel no differently about obnoxious twinks
|> > than about high-school cliques. But sometimes the
|> > taste of sour grapes is difficult to wash out of
|> > your mouth.
|>
|> Poor baby! Let me give you some succor, Greg, (quick,
|> while nobody's looking). Well, it might surprise you,
|> but twinks aren't the only ones with attitude. Kind
|> of reminds me when I attended a Bear Hug in San Fran-
|> cisco. Didn't get so much as a sniff.
LoveDoll, there have been many a morning that
I have had to console myself with having only
your -memory- to sniff. I find this *so* hard
to believe.
|> "Damn you all!"
|> I hissed, dashing my Martini to the ground in a
|> huff. I did an about-face, and flounced for the
|> door.
Oh dear, I believe it now.....
--
Greg Parkinson (GregBear) Phone: 212-657-7814
Citibank Fax: 212-825-8607
111 Wall Street E-Mail: uunet!ibism!glp
New York, NY 10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Mara Chibnik
>
>Gosh! What a dichotomy! I wonder where we'd put Jeff Dauber?
>
Well, where would you _like_ to put Jeff Dauber?
(It could turn into an interesting party.)
--
Mara Chibnik ma...@panix.com
be a real person, use a .sig file.
otherwise..
you don't exist. -- D. Owen Rowley
Mara Chibnik
...
>>Poor baby! Let me give you some succor, Greg, (quick,
>No! Me first! (Succor that thang)
I guess there's a succor born every minute.
John Fisher
rog...@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
> [...] Seems I was standing
> there thinking "Do I have any chance with a CYT like that?" to
> myself, and he was standing at the pinball machine wondering if
> I'd ever ask. [...] Even with
> the leather vest, some people would have thought "surfer kid" before
> "hot man"; good, more for me.
Sounds as if you ran into Graeme :-)
I've never understood why so many people feel that in order to attract an X
they have to look/behave/be like an X. It's based on the notion that
everyone is attracted to people who are just like themselves. But this
isn't so.
--John
Brian R. Smith
>In article <1991Sep4.0...@ircam.fr> fra...@ircam.fr (Joseph Francis) writes:
>>No! Me first! (Succor that thang)
>I guess there's a succor born every minute.
Boo!
<Wearing my best comical-appalled expression, which is probably better
imagined than seen.> And to *think* that I resisted following up
"Thanks, Steve." with "Here! Here!"
[Now, if only Mr. Greening could develop a heuristic system that would
weed out puns...]
--
Brian
Tezcatlipocateopixque
>Robert. Okay, so back to ... What does BIFF stand for?
BIFF.
--
Vote YES for KEVIN DARCY to sit beside Theodore A. Kaldis
on the COUNCIL OF NET.IDIOTS. Send your vote to
kee...@crdgw1.crd.ge.com and help Kevin win!
Mick Washbrook
> In article <75...@autodesk.COM>, mi...@Autodesk.COM (Mick Washbrook) writes:
> > Gosh! What a dichotomy! I wonder where we'd put Jeff Dauber?
>
> are we just being bitchy today dear?
> but to answer your question..
> why, on the bear of course..
> :-)
Actually, it was a compliment! How could anybody categorize
anybody so unique as Jeff.
Melinda Shore
>Robert. Okay, so back to ... What does BIFF stand for?
It's my understanding that it's shorthand for "HEY D00D!!!" or something
like that.
--
Software longa, hardware brevis
Melinda Shore - Cornell Information Technologies - sh...@tc.cornell.edu
Henry Mensch
->I want to propose a new word for the group of people formerly
->adequately described as 'bears'. It is 'berry', and 'berries'. It has
->the charm of 'twink', 'twinkie', and 'twinkies' in that it is
->reasonably abstract, doesn't actually describe them, yet sounds
->appropriate, and indefinably cutesy.
it sounds like something you'd want to sink your teeth into.
Henry Mensch
->> -> "Twinkies" are those whom "bears" admit to be cute, while bears are
->> ->those who consider themselves to be irreconciliably non-twink.
->
->> i don't think i've heard one self-described bear describe any twink
->> as "cute." maybe you're reading a different newsgroup?
->
->are you two being deliberately obtuse or have you met your match henry :-)
not at all ... i'm just describing what i see in this space. i'm only
aware of two or three bearish (in self-description) men in this space
who would consider a twink to be something of more utility than a
hostess snack cake. the other, more vocal bears in this space are all
shrieking "twink? TWINK? calgon, take me away!"
->seriously, I must describe myself as bearish (what choice do i have)
->but I've been known to please a twink or two in my time.
->(preferably in groups :-)
"this package is measured by weight, not volume ... "
->the word cute is often mistaken as some well defined standard..
oh, but it is ... it's just that there are so many standards to choose
from (just like in computing).
Rob Boldbear
>>>>Long definition
>>>Oh, this is "Biff" to me
>>What is Biff?
>One might think to go back and red the long definition since the
>rules of identity are clear here 8-)
The question (still unanswered) was what does "BIFF" stand for, not
what it meant.
--
Rob Bernardo (aka Rob Boldbear) r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (510) 827-4301 (hm)
"Patriotism once meant the Home of the Brave and the Land of the Free;
now it means the Home of the Fearful and the Land of the Mindless."
-- Jess Anderson
Mike Hennahane
>In article <1991Sep3.0...@queernet.org> rog...@mips.COM (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>>When I reached for a pen to write our numbers down, someone else said
>>about me, "You must be over thirty, they're the only ones who carry
>>pens"
>Counter-example: I carry a pen. I'm twenty.
me, too. i usually stock a pen and maybe some emergency equipment in
every jacket, so that i never have to do without... i'm a spry 24.
--mike
John Flanagan
>The question (still unanswered) was what does "BIFF" stand for, not
>what it meant.
La`, tout n'est qu`ordre et beaute',
Luxe, calme, et BIFF.
--
John Flanagan Center for EUV Astrophysics
jo...@ssl.berkeley.edu University of California
(...!ucbvax!soc1.ssl!johnf) Berkeley, CA 94720
"I'm looking for a man who can satisfy me as much as a baked potato."
-- Somebody in "Eating"
Joshua Geller
|> rlc...@zeus.tamu.edu wrote:
|> > So, basically, then, the "gay culture" is split into two major
|> >groups, "Twinkies" and "Bears",
|> This is simply not true.
Queer people, like all groups of people that can be defined as including me,
are divided into two major groups: "stupid people" and "us".
Of course, people generally are divided into two major groups: those who see
groups of people in terms of two major groups and those who don't.
But all generalizations are partially false.
josh
a flying squirrel
>me, too. i usually stock a pen and maybe some emergency equipment in
>every jacket, so that i never have to do without... i'm a spry 24.
I had no idea you considered that Donna Summer tape as "emergency
equipment".
Mara Chibnik
>The question (still unanswered) was what does "BIFF" stand for, not
>what it meant.
Who is BIFF, what is s/he? Do all our swains, in fact, commend
hir?
brother I fly fast
bring in fresh fruit
butter is for frying
(but it's fairly fattening)
If it's not one of Willy Loman's sons or a program to announce
new mail, I give up.
Does BIFF stand for pieties, pennants and paternity? Would BIFF
die for the cause?
--
ma...@panix.com Mara Chibnik ma...@dorsai.com
Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Paul Crowley
>I wonder if this has any correlation with people who prefer Pascal to C.
I wonder if there's any biological difference that accounts for that
particular perversion? I'm sure it can be cured...
____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley ai...@castle.ed.ac.uk \ /
/\__/ Part straight. Part gay. All queer. \/
"I say we kill him and eat his brain."
"That's not the solution to _every_ problem, you know!" -- Rudy Rucker
Mike Hennahane
>Mikey Hennahane writes:
>>me, too. i usually stock a pen and maybe some emergency equipment in
>>every jacket, so that i never have to do without... i'm a spry 24.
>I had no idea you considered that Donna Summer tape as "emergency
>equipment".
i wouldn't have ever needed to if you hadn't taken all of my erasure,
madonna, and pet shop boys tapes last time i saw you. miraculously,
donna escaped...
--mike
Max Meredith Vasilatos
>And Twinkies don't make good f*ckers because they tend to get everything
>messy (that is, unless they're stale).
Oh for the twinkies of yesteryear.
Seventeen years ago, I gave my friend Kip a Hostess twinkie
for his birthday. Don't ask what drove me to do this; we'd
been trading tacky shtuff since before we started the Rigor
Mortis Lively Arts Company or Winnuh Magazine.
Three months later, he gave the twinkie to me, on my birthday.
He'd decorated it with a small flag.
Nine months after that, twinkie to Kip. And so on.
Eight years ago, the twinkie arrived at my apartment, on a
dish glued to the head of a female mannequin named Harriet.
All of which is simply to say: twinkies do not go stale.
You may argue that they are stale in their *being*, but they
do not - ever - change. I know.
Joshua Geller
r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (Rob Boldbear) writes:
|> >>>>Long definition
|> >>>Oh, this is "Biff" to me
|> >>What is Biff?
|> >One might think to go back and red the long definition since the
|> >rules of identity are clear here 8-)
|> The question (still unanswered) was what does "BIFF" stand for, not
|> what it meant.
finger roc...@bucsf.bu.edu and find out......
josh
Michael S. Pettersen
writes:
> In article <1991Sep4.1...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US>
r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (Rob Boldbear) writes:
>
>>The question (still unanswered) was what does "BIFF" stand for, not
>>what it meant.
>
> Who is BIFF, what is s/he? Do all our swains, in fact, commend
> hir?
Boy, do they commend hir!
> Does BIFF stand for pieties, pennants and paternity? Would BIFF
> die for the cause?
Like K*ld*s, Tezcatlipocateopixque, and YHWH, it is not permitted to spell
out the name of BIFF. Well, okay, with a bit of effort, you can spell
Tezcatlipocateopixque, but you can't pronounce it.
Annihilation, bliss, annihilation,
Death, destruction and Nirvana!
What matters how we lose our souls, to love or death:
Through loss of one,
Or through the melting down of twoness into something else?
'Tis truly said, a man must lose his life to find it.
In BIFF there is no solitude,
But only oneness, unity and peace.
In the everlasting is no present;
No moment follows moment when there is no self
In seventh heaven.
--
Michael Pettersen, Ohio State Physics
m...@ohstpy.bitnet, m...@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Perfect love casteth out fear.
Mike Hennahane
>Seventeen years ago, I gave my friend Kip a Hostess twinkie
>for his birthday. Don't ask what drove me to do this; we'd
[...]
>Eight years ago, the twinkie arrived at my apartment, on a
[...]
>All of which is simply to say: twinkies do not go stale.
>You may argue that they are stale in their *being*, but they
>do not - ever - change. I know.
i think that i still have a copy of the SPY magazine article on
twinkies. i belive the aim was to determine if twinkies are really
food. they did all sorts of tests to see what would happen to a
twinkie under extreme circumstances. anyone interested?
--mike
Wingerde van FJ
}i think that i still have a copy of the SPY magazine article on
}twinkies. i belive the aim was to determine if twinkies are really
}food. they did all sorts of tests to see what would happen to a
}twinkie under extreme circumstances. anyone interested?
I'm starting to feel deprived here. I've never eaten a twinkie in my life.
Or at least, I can't remember I have. I still have some old 'Archie' magazines
with ads for them though.
FJ!!
Jim Wood
>In article do...@aptzero.lonestar.org (Doug Gault) writes:
>>
>>I personally like to have at least one twinky after every meal!
> Yes, but half an hour later you're hungry all over again.
Well, I've eaten plenty of bears and I've been ready to eat again
within another half hour :-)
Jim Wood [jw...@siemens.siemens.com]
Siemens Corporate Research, 755 College Road East, Princeton, NJ 08540
(609) 734-3643
mike.siemon
(John Flanagan) writes:
> La`, tout n'est qu`ordre et beaute',
> Luxe, calme, et BIFF.
umm... shouldn't that be "bifftek" ??? :-)
--
Michael L. Siemon We must know the truth, and we must
m.si...@ATT.COM love the truth we know, and we must
...!att!attunix!mls act according to the measure of our love.
standard disclaimer -- Thomas Merton
D. Owen Rowley
> In article <1991Sep3.0...@queernet.org>,
> rog...@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
> > [...] Seems I was standing
> > there thinking "Do I have any chance with a CYT like that?" to
> > myself, and he was standing at the pinball machine wondering if
> > I'd ever ask. [...] Even with
> > the leather vest, some people would have thought "surfer kid" before
> > "hot man"; good, more for me.
> Sounds as if you ran into Graeme :-)
As it happens I was trying to hold a conversation with Roger while he was
thinking those debauched thoughts about the guy playing the pinball machine,
and I've also *run into* Graeme while he was here.. Actually there was quite
a bit of physical similarity.. though to my mind Graemes cuter :-)
> I've never understood why so many people feel that in order to attract an X
> they have to look/behave/be like an X. It's based on the notion that
> everyone is attracted to people who are just like themselves. But this
> isn't so.
Aye..
I'm not my own type...
and I've known many who feel the same way..
Last night at the gymn I was in the spa, trying to keep my lip close to the
water line so others wouldn't notice the drool.. :-)
One of the Spa occupants was dark, thickly muscled, chisle jawed, handsome
as they come.... with an attitude of disdain that negated the existence of
all within view...I was fixated on his spectacularly masculine presense even
though I had been conversing with an asian fellow sitting next to me.
( many here know of my extreme fondness for asian men)
After the beast left the tub , I casually made some debauched objectification
of him to the asian guy.. he remarked " Oh really, I don't notice if they're
not blonde and blue eyed " .
It seems to me that lots of folks are attracted to those characteristics
which are exotic.. in relation to them..
I know I am.
LUX .. owen
--
D. Owen Rowley, {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen , { ow...@autodesk.com }
"Lets hear it for America, the only country left with a functioning Communist
party" Dennis Miller
Elaine Richards
>what it meant.
Once upon a time, there was a lady named Heidi. She had a dog named
Biff. It used to bark at the mailman. She or one of her coworkers
wrote a mail notification hack. They named it after Heidi's dog.
Oh. I digress.
I believe a Biff is a male Muffy.
Muffies and Biffs are supposed to be Dan Quayle types - WASP,
privileged and not too smart.
In real life, the only Muffy I know is a very intelligent programmer
and the only Biff I know of is the aforementioned dog.
So much for that.
ER