96 and dropping... (please read)
Michael Nieuwenhuizen
No, this is not the score of my purity test. I am not *that*
innocent, really. 96 is the number of T4-cells in my blood.
Yes, I am HIV+.
I had prepared a long story to post to this newsgroup. About
how I seroconverted in 1994. How the summer of that year turned
into a total nightmare, working on my graduation, having my heart
broken badly, and having to go through several hiv tests, all
within a few months. How, 5 days before my graduation I heard
the final, and positive, result. How, in the days after I told
my best friends and closest family, so they wouldn't be too happy
at my graduation. How, just 2 months after I heard the final test
results I had to move to Geneva. About the hell that Geneva's
been to me in that first year. About getting sick several times
last year. About the times I was in hospital with no friends
or family around, or anyone else who spoke a language I could
understand. About my dropping weight. And dropping even faster:
my T4-cells. About twice almost missing the motss.con, because I
was to sick to go...
But I don't want to look back. The memory hurts too much.
Mikkie, who feels better than he sounds...
[I will soon post more, and will answer *any* question - I can
deal with it now...]
Arnold Zwicky
thank you, michaeltje, for saying this to the extended
family of soc.motss. and for offering to answer *any*
question.
perhaps there were readers who read your posting without
either a sigh or a gasp, but there can't have been many.
and now you should accept the many hugs, literal and
figurative, that will be offered to you. you can use them.
with affection and respect,
arnold
Herman Kuiper
Arnold Zwicky (zwi...@duncan.ling.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
: thank you, michaeltje, for saying this to the extended
: family of soc.motss. and for offering to answer *any*
: question.
: with affection and respect,
: arnold
I don't like *me too* posts, but think it is in order here.
Herman
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROMPT HP-GC P.O. Box 1081
HP Calculator/Handheld User Group 1500 AB Zaandam
pro...@xs4all.nl +31-75-704 205 The Netherlands
Simon Coakeley
Arnold Zwicky (zwi...@duncan.ling.ohio-state.edu) writes:
> thank you, michaeltje, for saying this to the extended
> family of soc.motss. and for offering to answer *any*
> question.
>
> perhaps there were readers who read your posting without
> either a sigh or a gasp, but there can't have been many.
>
> and now you should accept the many hugs, literal and
> figurative, that will be offered to you. you can use them.
>
> with affection and respect,
> arnold
>
>
Amen!
Simon
--
Co-Chair, Time Limits Task Force
Member, Complaints Resolution Committee
aka "Bubbles"
Now in the Land of Anne (of Green Gables, that is)
Anthony J. Rzepela
Herman Kuiper (pro...@xs4all.nl) wrote:
> I don't like *me too* posts,
Me, neither.
--
____Tony Rzepela (rzep...@netaxs.com)
Dr G.M. Williams
Michael Nieuwenhuizen (Michael.Ni...@cern.ch) wrote:
: No, this is not the score of my purity test. I am not *that*
: Yes, I am HIV+.
Well done Mik.
*Hug*
Geoff
Michael Nieuwenhuizen
Michael Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
>
> No, this is not the score of my purity test.
I did the 1000-question test yesterday (I put a copy of it in
my homepage at http://wwwcn.cern.ch/~nieuwen/purity.html) and
scored about 73%, so I'm much purer than most other Dutch
motssers... I'm working on it though ("C'me here, doggy...")
> Yes, I am HIV+.
>
[SNIP]
>
> [I will soon post more, and will answer *any* question - I can
> deal with it now...]
First of all: thanks for the supportive replies!! I'll answer
them when I have more time. And now for some questions:
"How did you get infected?"
I really don't know. Before the infection I only had anal
sex once (being the bottom), safe, and that was about 4 years
before the sero-conversion. Never had anybody cum in my mouth,
never had any cuts in my mouth, never used needles, never had
a blood transfusion.... It just doesn't make sense. I've
discussed the dangers of oral sex once on one of the aids
newsgroups, suggesting that oral sex might not be as safe
as people think, only to be attacked by Lars Eighner who told
me he would never believe me, only because I posted anonymously...
"What drugs are you on?"
I started with AZT/ddI in December, when - right after a week in
the hospital (where I ended up after taking some PCP preventing
drugs; this was 2 weeks after I got back from my US-trip to the
con) my T4-cells where at its minimum value so far: 67. After
a month they were up to 120, 2 months later to 180, and now
they've started to drop again, so I dropped the ddI and added
3TC. So I'm on AZT/3TC, which is the standard medication these
days. I don't want to try one of the protease inhibitors yet,
before there's more data available.
"Who knows? And who do you tell?"
My family knows. Most of my friends know. A lot of people on
motss already knew. My bosses and colleagues know (I got my job
even while the company knew). And now .... about everybody knows.
Telling people is still hard though. Especially when you pick
up someone in a bar or something. Sometimes I tell, sometimes
I don't. I'm not letting them have unsafe sex anyway.
Well, this is it for now. If anybody has a question, please
don't be afraid to ask. And if you're in a similar situation
and would like to talk about it, let me know. Descretion
assured.
Mikkie, who doesn't dare to post an Ilona quote...
Lars Eighner
Broadcast on soc.motss
The lovely and talented j...@acm.org (Jack Hamilton) wrote:
>eig...@io.com (Lars Eighner) wrote:
No. I didn't.
>
>>> >Oral sex for the passive partner is seen as the great grey area. But
>>> >is it? First, there is (as far as I'm aware) a total absence of
>>> >medical evidence to suggest that anybody has been infected by the oral
>>> >route.
>
>You are not keeping yourself informed. There has been evidence to that
>effect for some time. The first study I remember reading about was a
>result of cohort research in San Francisco. You could probably find it
>in MedLine.
Here is the line that you snipped which correctly attributed
the above words:
>
> 10041...@compuserve.com (Greg Snow) wrote:
> >
This was a thread that sorted through most of the
existing studies. There have been more since.
My best summary of all of them is that the risk of transmission
via oral sex is not zero, but it is substantially less
than the risk of transmission via anal sex.
From the CDC statistics it ought to be very clear that
while educational resources are limited the most
efficatious use of them is to devote the bulk of them
to education regarding anal sex.
--
=Lars Eighner=4103 Ave D (512)459-6693==_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
= eig...@io.com =Austin TX 78751-4617_/ alt.books.lars-eighner _/
= http://www.io.com/~eighner/ _/ now at better ISPs everywhere _/
="Yes, Lizbeth is fine."==========_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
--
=Lars Eighner=4103 Ave D (512)459-6693==_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
= eig...@io.com =Austin TX 78751-4617_/ alt.books.lars-eighner _/
= http://www.io.com/~eighner/ _/ now at better ISPs everywhere _/
="Yes, Lizbeth is fine."==========_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
dio...@sc2a.unige.ch
> The lovely and talented Michael Nieuwenhuizen <Michael.Ni...@cern.ch> wrote:
>
>>"How did you get infected?"
>>
>
>
> So, Mr. or Ms. Anon, what country are you in? Are you found in
> the CDC reports under anonymous rumors?
>
It's really nice of you to give him all this support in these hard times
It's very courageous to forward his anonyme message...
And i think it will be a great help for him, to try to make him feel gilty.
Actually, I think that everybody is dreaming of such friend...
Now, he has HIV in his blood, and I think it's more important to
have some advice concerning therapy, than to talk about what he wouldn't
have done, or said...
Come on, all searchers, It's time to work hardly...
Thierry who's still crying in his mind...
Michael Nieuwenhuizen
>
> In article <X/W0xAwZq...@io.com>, eig...@io.com wrote:
>>
>> Well this is real evidence, coming as it does through
>> the anonymous server.
>
> Does the delivery of any usenet post via anon.penet.fi automatically
> invalidate its contents?
Thanks David, those were exactly the words I was looking for.
Mik, who can't really be bothered to reply to Lars
P.S: thanks Ellen!
Éamonn McManus
> In our last episode <31D105...@cern.ch>,
> Broadcast on soc.motss
> The lovely and talented Michael Nieuwenhuizen <Michael.Ni...@cern.ch> wrote:
This attribution style, merely irritating in your other articles,
becomes positively offensive in the context.
[Michael wrote:]
> >I've discussed the dangers of oral sex once on one of the aids
> >newsgroups, suggesting that oral sex might not be as safe
> >as people think, only to be attacked by Lars Eighner who told
> >me he would never believe me, only because I posted anonymously...
[Lars Eighner wrote:]
> Transcript of attack message follows:
>
> From: eig...@io.com (Lars Eighner)
[...]
> Well this is real evidence, coming as it does through
> the anonymous server.
[...]
> So, Mr. or Ms. Anon, what country are you in? Are you found in
> the CDC reports under anonymous rumors?
I don't see what purpose you thought it would serve to repost this
message. It simply confirms what Michael said, as well as allowing
anyone who might have doubted to see what a nasty piece of work you
are.
,
Eamonn
Tim Wilson
bro...@mizar.usc.edu (david broudy) writes:
>Does the delivery of any usenet post via anon.penet.fi automatically
>invalidate its contents?
Of course not, but the fraction of substantive posts coming out of
anon.penet.fi goes to zero in the limit as the number of posts gets
large.
--
Tim Wilson http://www.ee.memphis.edu/~tim/ mailto:t-wi...@memphis.edu
Anthony J. Rzepela
> bro...@mizar.usc.edu (david broudy) writes:
>
> >Does the delivery of any usenet post via anon.penet.fi automatically
> >invalidate its contents?
>
> Of course not, but the fraction of substantive posts coming out of
> anon.penet.fi goes to zero in the limit as the number of posts gets
> large.
It's 1996. Substitute "the Internet" (as sloppy as that
is. So sue me.) for anon.penet.fi and your statement
is still correct.
You're also sucking off a straw herring.
We're not talking about making lifestyle
choices or clinical decisions based on what comes out
of anon.penet.fi.
If what comes out of anon.penet.fi is beneath notice, then
why did Lars stoop to bait it? Now that he knows the locale of
this formerly anonymous anecdote, what kind of response
does he have?
--
____Tony Rzepela (rzep...@netaxs.com)
Sammie L. Foss
>So, Mr. or Ms. Anon, what country are you in? Are you found in
>the CDC reports under anonymous rumors?
somehow lead someone to believe that your snitty little comment
didn't constitute an attack, or were you just trying to prove
Mik's point?
Sammie
Mark Morrissey
> david broudy wrote:
> > In article <X/W0xAwZq...@io.com>, eig...@io.com wrote:
> >>
> >> Well this is real evidence, coming as it does through
> >> the anonymous server.
> >
> > Does the delivery of any usenet post via anon.penet.fi automatically
> > invalidate its contents?
> Thanks David, those were exactly the words I was looking for.
Or rather, how does signing one's name indicate evidence?
Lars seems to like the "so you say" approach, but let's think just a little
bit about medical evidence. As far as I know, there has never been a medical
researcher in the room taking notes when I was engaged in the hothotmanmansexsex
thing. As such, the results of any research study that includes information
about my hothotmanmansexsex seems to rely on information provided by me (and
perhaps any of the countless others in the room at the time :).
Mind you, a properly run scientific study would use large sample sets with
certain characteristics designed to achieve a statistically valid point (recall
James Burke's statement that we only build instrumentation to measure the outcomes
we expect, not to measure all possible outcomes - an almost self-fulfilling
prophesy). But in the end, the study will still rely on statements by individuals
like me.
If, for example, a scientific study were to accept as valid statements from
an anonymous individual (people are rendered anonymous in scientific reports
all the time and are sometimes anonymmous to the researchers themselves) the
same as were posted here, how are they more valid? Wouldn't Lars still scoff
at the report for not publishing the names? Again, how would the presence of
names give the report more validity?
If someone publishes a study that noone has been stabbed in the right leg
in downtown Salt Lake City while wearing cycling shoes and eating ice cream
and I come forward and say that indeed I have, must I show you the scar,
police and medical reports? btw, I still have the knife (but probably am
not going to prove it to Lars).
--mark
--
Mark Morrissey Director, Information Technology
ma...@admin.ogi.edu The Oregon Graduate Institute
(503) 690-1106 http://www.ogi.edu/~markm/
Anthony J. Rzepela
Mark Morrissey (ma...@admin.ogi.edu) wrote:
> Michael Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
> > Thanks David, those were exactly the words I was looking for.
>
> Or rather, how does signing one's name indicate evidence?
> [more good stuff]
> If, for example, a scientific study were to accept as valid statements from
> an anonymous individual (people are rendered anonymous in scientific reports
> all the time and are sometimes anonymmous to the researchers themselves) the
> same as were posted here, how are they more valid? Wouldn't Lars still scoff
> at the report for not publishing the names? Again, how would the presence of
> names give the report more validity?
Eigner's dismissive tactics were easy because
the disagreement was from an "anonymous" source,
and, well, you KNOW what they say about people
who use anon.penet.fi.
He wasn't interested in science or knowledge
or much of anything except another USENET pissing
contest, and so he employed the tired tactics thereof.
Well, now he has the answers to the questions
he was ostensibly asking in his "cute" dismissal
of M.N., and all he can do is bring up the old
post in the hope that well-earned and widespread
revulsion and skepticism towards content from
anon.penet.fi can justify his shitty attitude.
I'm not interested in seeing
Lars making kissy-face to anyone,
nor am I interested in justifying anon.penet.fi
as a virtual New England Journal of Medicine,
but I am interested in seeing him defend
his assertions with something besides
"Nyeah, nyeah, you're using the anon server
and I'm not."
--
____Tony Rzepela (rzep...@netaxs.com)
Richard Jasper
rightness--but I don't quite see how it constitutes an attack, which is
how Mik described it. Re-posting what was actually said is right out of
the soc.motss handbook under "rules of engagement," isn't it?
That aside, I'd've hoped that anyone, anywhere reading that someone had
contracted HIV would respond with expressions of concern and sympathy
rather than "prove it..." And I hope that Lars will come down off his
ideological high horse, if indeed he's on it, and say as much to Mik.
Richard
Tony Sarris
bro...@mizar.usc.edu (david broudy) wrote:
[about HIV transmission]
> What I've read on the topic has been inconclusive, but most of the
> articles included examples of people who avoided all the traditionally
> "unsafe" activities *except for unprotected oral sex with no ejaculation*
> and still turned up HIV+. What was it then, a bug bite? Failure to use the
> convenient sanitary paper toilet seat cover? Reservations about admitting
> getting fucked without a rubber?
Precum?
Sex with people who sometimes semi-ejaculate, i.e., who have the ability
to sort of get off (usually quietly) with some emission, but then save the
full-on, noticeable ejaculation for later, only after pulling out of the
other party's mouth?
As others have pointed out, the odds might be low, but they still exisit.
Mikje has said it is no longer an issue for him *personally* how *he*
became infected (meaning, I believe, he'll likely never know for sure
anyway, and what is, is, so little or no good can come from dwelling on
past events). It is important to others, however, to take precautions for
themselves based on other people's experiences. I gather that's partly why
Mik shared his personal experience.
But now he's gotten past that and onto the more important point of staying
as healthy, overall, as possible. Support from friends and family is a big
part of that process, in addition to the purely medicinal end of things.
As he knows, I truly wish him well.
Tony Sarris
to...@ontek.com
Lars Eighner
Broadcast on soc.motss
Naturally, I am concerned. But taking the occasion of such
distressing news to have a swipe at me for a 10-month-old
exchange I had with an anonymous post did stun me. All I could
think of was to find the post to see what it was I did say.
I don't think my skepticism was unreasonable--How was I to know
this was not a troll or perhaps more deliberate disinformation
from AIDS-deniers who had been participating in the thread?
It is simply unreasonable to assume that one's anon posts will
be recieved with the same credibility as one's signed posts.
Mik's English is impeccible and I had no clue that I had ever
heard from or of the author before.
When I found the post, I was disappointed with it. It wasn't
as I hoped it would be. But then, I didn't think it was quite
as Mik described it either. I reposted it. I had, after all,
signed it. And that means I am obliged to accept responsibility
for what it was, warts and all.
I am sorry I hurt Mik's feelings. Obviously I have, although
I certainly did not intend to. If I could take Mik's place
at this moment, I would do so in the wink of an eye.
I am not sorry for being skeptical of anon anecdotes on
sci.meds.aids .
Herman Kuiper
: Michael Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
: >
: > No, this is not the score of my purity test.
: I did the 1000-question test yesterday (I put a copy of it in
: my homepage at http://wwwcn.cern.ch/~nieuwen/purity.html) and
: scored about 73%, so I'm much purer than most other Dutch
: motssers... I'm working on it though ("C'me here, doggy...")
Uhm, I did the 500q one recently, and came out just above (which surprised
me still to be honest...)
: a blood transfusion.... It just doesn't make sense. I've
: discussed the dangers of oral sex once on one of the aids
: newsgroups, suggesting that oral sex might not be as safe
: as people think, only to be attacked by Lars Eighner who told
: me he would never believe me, only because I posted anonymously...
What surprised me sometime ago, was the different views on oral sex, even
from the "offical" agencies. Over here, oral is consired safish, as long
as you don't get cum in your mouth.
wpa...@larry.cc.emory.edu
: What surprised me sometime ago, was the different views on oral sex, even
: from the "offical" agencies. Over here, oral is consired safish, as long
: as you don't get cum in your mouth.
As in "She's sorta pregnant."
-Will
Anthony J. Rzepela
Oral sex is neither completely safe nor the kiss of death
(if you'll pardon the expression.) So, either you are complaining
about the word, or you like the idea that people will go around
assuming they're HIV+ just because they've engaged in it.
Which is it?
--
____Tony Rzepela (rzep...@netaxs.com)
wpa...@larry.cc.emory.edu
: Which is it?
Well St. Anthony, I was complaining about the meaningless
term.
Not that you deserved that answer.
-Will
Anthony J. Rzepela
> Well St. Anthony, I was complaining about the meaningless
> term.
> Not that you deserved that answer.
I deserved the other one? I don't get it. (Tee Hee!)
--
____Tony Rzepela (rzep...@netaxs.com)
Herman Kuiper
wpa...@larry.cc.emory.edu () wrote:
>Herman Kuiper (pro...@xs4all.nl) wrote:
>
>: What surprised me sometime ago, was the different views on oral sex, even
>: from the "offical" agencies. Over here, oral is consired safish, as long
>: as you don't get cum in your mouth.
>
> "Safish"? Is that like sorta?
> As in "She's sorta pregnant."
OK, wrong choice of words... "Considered very low risk"
Herman
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Herman Kuiper - The Hague, The Netherlands - EMail: kui...@nlr.nl /
Research Engineer - National Aerospace Laboratory NLR Amsterdam (NLR)
Voice: +31-20-511 3633 (work), or +31-70-347 5596 (home) /
------------------------------------------------------------------------
JTEM
>Lars Eighner (eig...@io.com) wrote:
>: So, Mr. or Ms. Anon, what country are you in? Are you found in
>: the CDC reports under anonymous rumors?
>
>Snideness in this case counts as an attack, I think. And the apparent
>belief that this snotty little remark exhonerates you is quite telling.
There is not, and never has been, any shortage of abuse towards anon
posters. Well, least not around here anyway.
What would have surprised me is if it was claimed that NOBODY viewed
comments made through an anon server suspect.
John
--
-------------------------------------------------
| Guilty until proven innocent: JT...@NETCOM.COM |
|===============================================|
|| "The sun's not yellow it's chicken" ||
|| -Bob Dylan ||
-------------------------------------------------
Michael Nieuwenhuizen
>
> I am sorry I hurt Mik's feelings. Obviously I have, although
> I certainly did not intend to. If I could take Mik's place
> at this moment, I would do so in the wink of an eye.
So let this be the end of the discussion about who said
what and why. I have more important things on my mind.
A few things:
1) Again I'd like to thank all friends and other people for all their
supporting mails. Thanks!!! If it takes a little before one gets
a reply: sorry, my mailbox has been flooded this week :-)
2) Questions that came up in e-mails:
"I'm curious if you've opted to pursue any medical regimen
(eastern/western/alternative/whatever...)."
Nothing special, just the ordinary. At the moment simply
AZT/3TC and some pneumonia and toxo preventing drugs.
"How did you find out that you sero-converted in 1994?"
Actually I know the exact date on which it started: the
evening of April 22, 1994. I got very sick over the weekend,
with something that felt like a flue gone really bad. It
took about 4 weeks to get over it. First I thought it might
have been mono, so I got a test for that. It wasn't. The
hiv tests though showed that I was in the early stages of
an infection.
"Did yo contact the people that might have infected you?"
No. There's 3 or 4 people who could have been the cause,
but I have no idea which one.
"Did you engage in safe sex all the time? Using condoms for oral?"
First question: yes. Second question: no, but nobody ever
came in my mouth, so it's always been 99.9999(??)% safe.
My safe sex rules haven't changed since the infection.
"Why don't you start using protease inhibitors?" (p.i. are
are new kind of drugs which have give some very hopefull
results in the last few months.)
There's still not much known about p.i. What's the best one?
How long will they be effective? And how about cross-resistance?
For example: I could have started taking Saquinavir (a p.i. by
Roche) a few months ago, but in those few months one has
discovered that this p.i. is inferior to the others. And it
might have made me resistant for the other ones. So, as
long as I feel "fine" I don't want to start using them.
3) Oh, I've heard that people were thinking that my post was a
form of a closure, and that I must be planning something bad.
Quite the opposite. I feel fine, and this is like a new, fresh
start for me.
Mikkie
wpa...@larry.cc.emory.edu
:
: > Well St. Anthony, I was complaining about the meaningless
: > term.
: > Not that you deserved that answer.
: I deserved the other one? I don't get it. (Tee Hee!)
-Will
Mark Lewis Barwell
with John. Maybe see you at Pride if I make it to the uk.glb gathering...
------------------------------=* MESSAGE ENDS *=------------------------------
___ ______
/ _ \ \ _/____ "The sun is up, I'm so fizzy I could burst. You wet
| |_| | \ \ / through and me head-first into this is perfect, it's
__\ /__ \/ \ / all I ever wanted. It feels so big it almost hurts"
|___ ___| \/ - the Cure
| | -= mar...@cogs.sussex.ac.uk =-
|_| Mark L Barwell
Anthony J. Rzepela
Anthony J. Rzepela
> OK, wrong choice of words... "Considered very low risk"
Don't be ridiculous. I can't believe anyone reading
the original post couldn't understand what you meant
by saying "safish".
"Wrong choice of audience" is more like it.
--
____Tony Rzepela (rzep...@netaxs.com)
Peggy Fieland
Michael,
You will be in my thoughts. If prayers can help, you've got mine.
<hugs>
Peggy
John Whiteside
> Well St. Anthony, I was complaining about the meaningless
> term.
> Not that you deserved that answer.
Is it really a meaningless term? I understood it to mean having some
element of risk, but very small, so that it's unlikely one would become
infected doing it (but it's not impossible).
It's certainly an imprecise term, but far from meaningless.
----------------------------------------
John Whiteside / jwhi...@concentric.net
http://www.concentric.net/~jwhitesi
Fred Cherry
>"How did you get infected?"
>I really don't know. Before the infection I only had anal
>sex once (being the bottom), safe, and that was about 4 years
>before the sero-conversion. Never had anybody cum in my mouth,
>never had any cuts in my mouth, never used needles, never had
>a blood transfusion.... It just doesn't make sense. I've
>discussed the dangers of oral sex once on one of the aids
>newsgroups, suggesting that oral sex might not be as safe
>as people think, only to be attacked by Lars Eighner who told
>me he would never believe me, only because I posted anonymously...
Sir:
Believe me, I'm not trying to hassle you. But may I respectfully offer an
observation?
I am a heterosexual male. I know for a fact that some heterosexual males
try all sorts of scams in order to have unprotected sex with women.
Now, you say you had protected anal sex once when you were the receiver.
Now, as the receiver, your back is to the inserter. How can you be sure
that the inserter was engaging in protected sex? Isn't it possible that
he showed you himself wearing a condom, and just before he entered you,
he removed the condom?
Again, I say that it is not my intention to hassle you. It is true that I
do usually hassle gay people, but I do not hassle ill people. I was born
with a chronic illness and it has made my life a living hell. Therefore,
I always empathize with other physically challenged people, no matter
what their politics or sexual orientation.
Very truly yours,
Fred Cherry
Myco
WP>
WP>: What surprised me sometime ago, was the different views on oral sex, even
WP>: from the "offical" agencies. Over here, oral is consired safish, as long
WP>: as you don't get cum in your mouth.
WP>
WP> "Safish"? Is that like sorta?
WP> As in "She's sorta pregnant."
WP> -Will
I'll only date Herman once if he pulls off when I'm about to cum. I've
been sucking and swallowing (and on the other side, too) for well over
20 years and always test neg. Lucky? I don't think so. I'd rather
suck and swallow than drive a freeway.
Peter
Thomas Farrell
>
>Now, you say you had protected anal sex once when you were the receiver.
>Now, as the receiver, your back is to the inserter. How can you be sure
>that the inserter was engaging in protected sex? Isn't it possible that
>he showed you himself wearing a condom, and just before he entered you,
>he removed the condom?
I don't know about you Freddie boy, but every time I get fucked I'm
facing the man fucking me and can see his dick perfectly well.
>Again, I say that it is not my intention to hassle you. It is true that I
>do usually hassle gay people, but I do not hassle ill people. I was born
>with a chronic illness and it has made my life a living hell. Therefore,
>I always empathize with other physically challenged people, no matter
>what their politics or sexual orientation.
1) The hell you don't. You hassle everybody in sight and don't stop to
ask them how they're feeling first.
2) Michael N+37vowels has yet to state, that I've noticed, that he is
"ill." He said he is HIV positive. That's not the same thing.
3) You've proven time and time again that you're completely clueless
about absolutely everything to do with gay and lesbian people, and the
above quotations from your posting show that you're also completely
unimaginative about how we even go about having sex. You're not welcome
here. You never were. GO AWAY.
TMF
--
Check out Harvey and I at http://www.skepsis.com/~tfarrell
Or the Virgin Mary at http://lynx.neu.edu/home/httpd/t/tfarrell/motss/mary.html
Or Lint! at http://lynx.neu.edu/home/httpd/t/tfarrell/writings/lint/lint.html
I'm available for WWW design! Check http://www.skepsis.com/~tfarrell/graphics/
Anthony J. Rzepela
Fred Cherry (jo...@earth.usa.net) wrote:
[it hardly matters. He's here. The thread is Fred.]
Interestingly, Lars beat him to the punch.
It's become surreal, no?
I think people who encourage others to bare their souls
and innermost turmoils on USENET will burn in hell.
++Tony "the things that make you find God. Hyuk. Hyuk" Rzepela
Marcus J. Huiseman
get real...............get a life, don't project your own fears onto others!!!!!
Marcus
Anthony J. Rzepela
>
> get real...............get a life, don't project your own fears onto others!!!!!
Now _that's_ original...
No caps, either. Look at you.
--
____Tony Rzepela (rzep...@netaxs.com)
Fred Cherry
tfar...@lynx.dac.neu.edu (Thomas Farrell) writes:
>In article <john1.836061044@earth>, Fred Cherry <jo...@earth.usa.net> wrote:
>>
>>Now, you say you had protected anal sex once when you were the receiver.
>>Now, as the receiver, your back is to the inserter. How can you be sure
>>that the inserter was engaging in protected sex? Isn't it possible that
>>he showed you himself wearing a condom, and just before he entered you,
>>he removed the condom?
>I don't know about you Freddie boy, but every time I get fucked I'm
>facing the man fucking me and can see his dick perfectly well.
Just as I thought. You have your head on backwards.
Even so, that's still not good enough. Unless you're that much of a freak
that you can see your own asshole, you never know what some stranger is
ramming into it, if you allow a stranger to ram ANYTHING into it.
*************************************************************************
Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - Lincoln
Michael Nieuwenhuizen
Fred Cherry wrote:
>
> Now, you say you had protected anal sex once when you were the receiver.
> Now, as the receiver, your back is to the inserter. How can you be sure
> that the inserter was engaging in protected sex? Isn't it possible that
> he showed you himself wearing a condom, and just before he entered you,
> he removed the condom?
What annoys me most is that one can suck off a million of guys (if
only...), and swallow each and every time, and be fucked once, *with*
a condom, and still people are trying to prove that it must have
been that fuck that caused the infection....
No he did not remove the condom. I'm not stupid, you know. And that
one fuck was about 5 years before my seroconversion, which makes it
even less probable that *that* was the way I got infected.
> do usually hassle gay people, but I do not hassle ill people. I was born
> with a chronic illness and it has made my life a living hell. Therefore,
> I always empathize with other physically challenged people,
You call me physically challenged?
Mikkie
John*G*
In article <4r0q4k$6...@infa.central.susx.ac.uk>,
mar...@cogs.susx.ac.uk (Mark Lewis Barwell) wrote:
>*hug* have a long and fruitful life, Mik, and I hope everything stays
>peachy with John. Maybe see you at Pride if I make it to the uk.glb
>gathering...
*smile*
I would think that things staying peachy with me are the least of his
worries...But I don't think he'll be @Pride due to the pressures of work
*spit*
-John*G*
E-mail = ecl...@leeds.ac.uk
===============================================
Bouncy Blue-eyed Brunette Bitch-Boy-Babe -Get it.
===============================================
Devil/Angel. Fallen from grace & bathing in flames
The attached material has been sent without the knowledge of Leeds
University.The statements contained in my material are entirely my
opinions and I personally accept all responsibility for any liability
that may arise from my material.
John*G*
In article <31D78E...@cern.ch>,
Michael Nieuwenhuizen <Michael.Ni...@cern.ch> wrote:
>Fred Cherry wrote:
>> do usually hassle gay people, but I do not hassle ill people. I was born
>> with a chronic illness and it has made my life a living hell. Therefore,
>> I always empathize with other physically challenged people,
>
>You call me physically challenged?
*sits on hands*