Seeking some advice
Christian De Lay
Looking for some advice from those more experienced with these sort of
things than I...
I've been playing "visual tag" for the last few weeks at the local bar
with a bear who's approximately 20 years older than me. I find him to be
rather attractive, and from various "reports" from acquaintances, he seems
to be a good (although somewhat shy) person. From what I can tell there
seems to be mutual attraction...
Do people have any experiences/comments dealing with this kind of
situation? Twenty plus years (I'm 22, he's in his forties) is a rather
large (IMHO) age gap. I've recently gotten rather disillusioned with
twentysomething twinkies who are more interested in who's got the larger
pecs...
Also, any suggestions on how to strike up a conversation? I figure
asking for a dance (or 2) would be a good start but after that haven't the
slightest idea on how to sustain a conversation with someone old enough to
be my father... (humor me, please, I'm not good at social small talk and
can use all the help I can get).
-Chris.
--
cde...@cie.uoregon.edu
"I can read your mind"
"No".
Henry Mensch
-> Also, any suggestions on how to strike up a conversation?
??? how about "hello?" you could do something as pedestrian as
introducing yourself ...
->... (humor me, please, I'm not good at social small talk and
->can use all the help I can get).
this sounds like the perfect opportunity to practice your social small
talk. work to develop the skill instead of lamenting your lack of it
...
--
# Henry Mensch / Advanced Decision Systems / <he...@ads.com>
Jess Anderson
In article <1991Apr14.0...@ariel.unm.edu>
cde...@cie.uoregon.edu (Christian De Lay) writes:
>Looking for some advice from those more experienced with
>these sort of things than I...
>Do people have any experiences/comments dealing with this
>kind of situation? Twenty plus years (I'm 22, he's in his
>forties) is a rather large (IMHO) age gap.
I noticed that after a certain point, I was getting older,
but my boyfriends weren't. It's something about staying in
a college town, among other things, where we have a high
turnover of eligible men. I've had only one relationship
with a man who was a lot older than I (about 25 years, I was
31 when we met). Of the ones who were quite a bit younger
than I, the differences were 14, 20, and 24 years.
So that's the background in experience.
I don't think there are *any* general answers about such
things; each person, including you, is unique and brings to
each relationship something unlike any other relationship
there has ever been. While there are, of course, many
common things, and while we have certain relatively stable
or predictable qualities, these uncommon and unpredictable
qualities are the greater part of what happens between us
and the other person, I think.
>Also, any suggestions on how to strike up a conversation? I
>figure asking for a dance (or 2) would be a good start but
>after that haven't the slightest idea on how to sustain a
>conversation with someone old enough to be my father...
Speaking as someone who is now 33 years older than you, and
therefore very likely older than your father, my advice would
be to try to find out what this man likes, what he cares about,
what he reads, what music he enjoys, does he like outdoor life,
what sports does he enjoy doing or following, and so on and so
forth. Give him credit for being able to relate to things of
interest to you, too.
>(humor me, please, I'm not good at social small talk and can
>use all the help I can get).
Maybe small talk isn't the ticket? It wouldn't be with me,
it bores me to death and I have almost zero tolerance for
things that bore me. Maybe he would rather talk about
something that counts, at least to him or at least to you.
For one thing, facile, vapid people are not difficult to
find; interesting ones are, so be interesting -- to him.
<> Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft
<> ... and the only one that can be mass produced with
<> unskilled labor. -- Wernher von Braun
--
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: ande...@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: ande...@yak.macc.wisc.edu Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Mick Washbrook
>
> ( I am a fairly progresive
> person when it comes to moving with the times, so this is not a big problem
> for me.. If anything I have more progressive tastes, and handle modern
> culture better than my SO who is now 28.. that makes me 43 BTW :-)
>
"More progressive"! Ha!
> I love it!, and can I get my youthful SO to go dancing!
> nooooooooooo :-)
> I have to rely on the kindness of strangers, or just get out there by
> myself.
"Dancing"! Ha! The last time I took Owen dancing, he kept stabbing
peoples' toes with his stilleto heels, then someone stood on his dress,
and before we knew it, the whole dance floor had collapsed into a heap
of flailing arms and legs. The Baroness did not invite us back for
the foxhunt the next day. I think swinging from the chandelier was
the last straw for her.
But now, your story grows tiresome.
Touch it. Touch my monkey!
--
Mick Washbrooke mi...@autodesk.com
otium cum dignitate
John Fisher
cde...@cie.uoregon.edu (Christian De Lay) writes:
> Do people have any experiences/comments dealing with this kind of
> situation? Twenty plus years (I'm 22, he's in his forties) is a rather
> large (IMHO) age gap.
I wish I had more time to deal with this. I'm 46, and my lover is 23.
It would be a mistake to say we've never had any problems, but I don't
think we've had more problems than anyone else, all in all. Perhaps the
problems big-age-gap-couples have are different, so they show more.
> [...] Also, any suggestions on how to strike up a conversation? I figure
> asking for a dance (or 2) would be a good start
If he likes dancing!
> but after that haven't the
> slightest idea on how to sustain a conversation with someone old enough to
> be my father... (humor me, please, I'm not good at social small talk and
> can use all the help I can get).
Just blunder in. You'll think of something. As a last resort, if silence
falls, just say "I can't think of anything to say". Can be very fetching.
And remember, he ought to do at least half the work...
--John
Owen Rowley
> things than I...
I have some direct experience in the topic you raise, but from the *other*
side of the equation, I hope you find it usefull.
> I've been playing "visual tag" for the last few weeks at the local bar
> with a bear who's approximately 20 years older than me. I find him to be
> rather attractive, and from various "reports" from acquaintances, he seems
> to be a good (although somewhat shy) person. From what I can tell there
> seems to be mutual attraction...
So have you tried to get an aquaintance who knows the other guy to pass
a message that you are interested? if you know that he's shy, perhaps you
should take the initiative and start the converstaion.
> Do people have any experiences/comments dealing with this kind of
> situation? Twenty plus years (I'm 22, he's in his forties) is a rather
> large (IMHO) age gap. I've recently gotten rather disillusioned with
> twentysomething twinkies who are more interested in who's got the larger
> pecs...
When my SO and I met, I was ~36, he was 20. I'm fond of saying that "having
squandered my own youth, its a pleasure when someone else shares theirs."
Pairings of younger and older men are a time honored tradition. The older
man often has stability and experience which the younger man does not get
from his home environment, the older man is a father figure that validates
the young gay mans current reality .. somthing that is rarely gotten from
ones biological parents. The ancient Greeks believed that *wisdom* was
passed from the older man to the younger man via the semen during the sex
act :-). The younger man has vitality and the physical blush of youth which
fades with age. The younger man is a sexual stimulation which validates
the older mans attractiveness and it is always good to feel attractive to
someone.
there are downsides too, cultural and generational differences can get to
be problematic if things last any length of time. ( I am a fairly progresive
person when it comes to moving with the times, so this is not a big problem
for me.. If anything I have more progressive tastes, and handle modern
culture better than my SO who is now 28.. that makes me 43 BTW :-)
> Also, any suggestions on how to strike up a conversation? I figure
> asking for a dance (or 2) would be a good start but after that haven't the
> slightest idea on how to sustain a conversation with someone old enough to
> be my father... (humor me, please, I'm not good at social small talk and
> can use all the help I can get).
Once you've broken the ice, you'll find the conversation will either take
hold or not. Why don't you just start by saying " Hi!, I think you're a very
attractive man"
I suspect that all else will work itself out from there. If he
genuinely doesn't want to get involved with someone in your age bracket
then he won't respond, or will *make small talk*
I don't know how the dance places in Oregon are, but here in SF, its rare for
people to dance together, or use the "wanna dance" line. Check out if he
gets out on the dance floor already, Some guys don't like to, you know!
Not me BTW!!..
I love it!, and can I get my youthful SO to go dancing!
nooooooooooo :-)
I have to rely on the kindness of strangers, or just get out there by
myself.
One other factor to remember, Older men who like younger men are called some
unkind names, and sometimes turned down with less than elegant terms.
Your target may be wary of being rejected, or perceived as a *troll*.
In any case If theres something you want, go for it..
LUX .. owen
--
D. Owen Rowley, {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen , { ow...@autodesk.com }
Aleister Crowley, when asked to define *The Tao* said,
"The result of subtracting the universe from itself"
Owen Rowley
> In article <39...@autodesk.COM>, ow...@Autodesk.COM (Owen Rowley) writes:
> > ( I am a fairly progresive
> > person when it comes to moving with the times, so this is not a big problem
> > for me.. If anything I have more progressive tastes, and handle modern
> > culture better than my SO who is now 28.. that makes me 43 BTW :-)
> "More progressive"! Ha!
well.. let me check..
...
...
yup.. jus' like I said the first time!
> > I love it!, and can I get my youthful SO to go dancing!
> > nooooooooooo :-)
> > I have to rely on the kindness of strangers, or just get out there by
> > myself.
> "Dancing"! Ha! The last time I took Owen dancing, he kept stabbing
> peoples' toes with his stilleto heels, then someone stood on his dress,
> and before we knew it, the whole dance floor had collapsed into a heap
> of flailing arms and legs. The Baroness did not invite us back for
> the foxhunt the next day. I think swinging from the chandelier was
> the last straw for her.
Have you been hitting my stash again!
Obviously this incident happened with another owen!
The last time I took YOU dancing.. was at Club Uranus new years eve!
we were slammin' to "Paranoia" and I had a ball!
The Baroness was in the Bathroom stalls on her knees!
> But now, your story grows tiresome.
> Touch it. Touch my monkey!
Slut!
Rob Boldbear
> Also, any suggestions on how to strike up a conversation? I figure
>asking for a dance (or 2) would be a good start but after that haven't the
>slightest idea on how to sustain a conversation with someone old enough to
>be my father... (humor me, please, I'm not good at social small talk and
>can use all the help I can get).
About 10 years ago there was a wonderful book, _Cruise to win_, which
despite it's power-yuppie-competitive sounding title, was about how to
develop self-confidence in social situations (not just bars) in which
one might meet strangers one would like to persue romantically/sexually
and about how to go about starting a conversation with a stranger. (I
lent my copy out and never got it back. What a loss. For practical
life-management advice, it ranks a full 8 deciandersons or a good twenty
sessions with a topnotch therapist). If you can get a hold of a copy,
do so! It's probably no longer in print. So check in your local used
gay bookstore.
In any case, the advice I'm going to give is general and not specific
to meeting someone who's a generation older.
The hard part is getting a conversation going. Asking someone to dance
is fine, but then after dancing or if they say "no", what do you do?
Here's what I do:
If he accepts my invitation to dance, I introduce myself while
dancing. If I'm dancing something like a two-step where we are
in each other's arms, and if the music isn't too loud, I start
conversing while on the dance floor. Otherwise I might wait
until the song is over.
I might ask if he's having a good time, or if he's been there long, or
even the proverbial "Do you come here often?" Don't worry about asking
something as cliche as that. As long as you sound warm and honest, it
will sound okay. Remember, the other guy's nervous like you are and
he'll be glad *you're* taking the initiative to break the ice.
What do I do if he says "no" to my invitation to dance but I still
feel he could be interested? I'll then just go ahead an introduce
myself.
In general, I'll ask where the person lives, where they were from
originally (in some cities this is meaningful - e.g. in San Francisco,
most gay men are not natives of the area and there's always a story
behind their move to S.F.), where he works, what work he does. If I get
at least a polite reply, I'll go forward. If I get an answer and a
reciprocating question back I'll feel encouraged even more to pursue
beginning the conversation. Remember, most of us underestimate the
shyness of the other person. In general, it pays to be slightly more
forward than one would otherwise tend to be. The other person might not
be fully responsive maybe because he is shy or maybe because he's
disinterested. It's hard to tell unless you persist a little bit more
than you'd be inclined to.
In asking these questions about residence, job, etc., see if you can
find something that can develop into a topic of conversation. If
it's a weekend night, ask him how his weekend is going, if he has
any special things he's planning on, did he do anything interesting
that afternoon, etc. Again, these might sound cliche, BUT THEY WORK.
If I find that he's truly not responsive or interested, that's when I
give up.
Another thing to remember: meeting someone in situations like bars is a
skill and so practice makes perfect. You'll learn.
--
Rob Boldbear email: r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US phone: (415) 827-4301
"The Was^ichus [Whites] did not care for each other the way our people did. ...
They would take everything from each other they could. ... They had forgotten
the earth was their mother. ... [They] even had the grass penned up."-Black Elk
Jess Anderson
Washbrook) writes:
>Owen is 43, and I am 28,
Heavens, I would have thought he was younger than 43 and
that you were older than 28. T'is but to marvel ...
>as long as he puts away his toys after he has played with
>them, and doesn't scribble in my books, we get along fine. And
>if he is bad, then he gets a jolly good spanking.
When he is bad, you reward him? No wonder he likes you!
<> Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an
<> art. -- Charles McCabe
Mick Washbrook
>
> I've had only one relationship
> with a man who was a lot older than I (about 25 years, I was
> 31 when we met). Of the ones who were quite a bit younger
> than I, the differences were 14, 20, and 24 years.
Owen is 43, and I am 28, a difference of er...15 years. I find
that as long as he puts away his toys after he has played with
them, and doesn't scribble in my books, we get along fine. And
if he is bad, then he gets a jolly good spanking.
From the *mature one* in the relationship...:-)
Randy Clark
In article <40...@autodesk.COM> ow...@Autodesk.COM (Owen Rowley) writes:
>In article <39...@autodesk.COM>, mi...@Autodesk.COM (Mick Washbrook) writes:
>> But now, your story grows tiresome.
>> Touch it. Touch my monkey!
>
>Slut!
Ahem. Cough. Splutter.
I believe that this is what St. Oscar referred to as
airing one's clean linen in public.
And it went on for several more posts, too.
;-)
--
Randy Clark {}!autodesk.com!randyc
"I, for one, have no desire to convince Middle America
that liking homos will give their mouths sex appeal.
-- Eric Holeman
Anonymous Posting Account
>In article <1991Apr14.0...@ariel.unm.edu>,
>cde...@cie.uoregon.edu (Christian De Lay) writes:
>
>> but after that haven't the
>> slightest idea on how to sustain a conversation with someone old enough to
>> be my father... (humor me, please, I'm not good at social small talk and
>> can use all the help I can get).
>
>falls, just say "I can't think of anything to say". Can be very fetching.
>
And giggle a lot, and sort of, like, bob your head back and forth and crack
your gum *real* loud, and, you know, are you, like, *blonde*, 'cause if you
are then you don't *really* need to talk much anyways, you know?
And don't forget to hum and like sort of sing along quietly to the really
good tunes when your kissing, you know? Older men just like totally go for
young blonde guys who don't feel like they have to, you know, totally
*dominate* a conversation and are like real musical.
-anon
Bob Culmer
> In article <1991Apr16.0...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US>, r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (Rob Boldbear) writes:
> |>
> |> it ranks a full 8 deciandersons or a good twenty sessions with a topnotch
>
> This has got to be the best new unit of the 1990s (so far, anyway, and
> it's gonna be hard to beat!).
> Robert
Well that may be, but I found most interesting the sheer power
expressed in an anderson. As I recall my metric prefixes:
milli - 10^-3
centi - 10^-2
deci - 10^-1 <====
(none) - 10^0 i.e. 1
deca - 10^1
hecto - 10^2
kilo - 10^3
Thus by the equivalence above Mr. Boldbear is postulating that an
anderson is equal to 25 sessions with a topnotch therapist. The mind
boggles! And a kiloanderson is so far beyond comprehension (at least
by mere mortals) that ... well it's just (as some of us say in Texas)
in-fucking-credible!
--
Bob Culmer - Dallas | Oh My! There's a dead witch under the
Somewhere over the rainbow | house and everything's in color!
...in the Land of OZ |
{mic,void,egsner}!ozdaltx!bob
Jess Anderson
In article <73...@ozdaltx.UUCP> b...@ozdaltx.UUCP (Bob Culmer)
writes:
>In article <21...@paperboy.OSF.ORG>, co...@osf.org (Robert
>Coren) writes:
>>In article <1991Apr16.0...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US>,
>>r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (Rob Boldbear) writes:
>>>it ranks a full 8 deciandersons or a good twenty sessions
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>with a topnotch therapist).
>>This has got to be the best new unit of the 1990s (so far,
>>anyway, and it's gonna be hard to beat!).
>Well that may be, but I found most interesting the sheer
>power expressed in an anderson. As I recall my metric
>prefixes:
Since mere immodesty has never stopped me before, there's
nothing to be gained by letting it do so now, I suppose.
Sheer power would be overstating it. Torsion is my forte!
>milli - 10^-3
>centi - 10^-2
>deci - 10^-1 <====
>(none) - 10^0 i.e. 1
>deca - 10^1
>hecto - 10^2
>kilo - 10^3
>Thus by the equivalence above Mr. Boldbear is postulating
>that an anderson is equal to 25 sessions with a topnotch
>therapist. The mind boggles! And a kiloanderson is so far
>beyond comprehension (at least by mere mortals) that ...
>well it's just (as some of us say in Texas)
>in-fucking-credible!
Now it's been some good little while since I was shelling
out for therapy, and doubtless costs have risen, but I was
paying $75 for 50 minutes. Does this mean I should expect a
return of at least 25 times that for the kind of therapy I
dispense? Egad, bring me your huddled masses and your full
wallets, I could retire earlier than I'd planned.
Tell you what, I'll give you a hell of a deal: $1000/hour,
plus expenses. Certain discounts might be negotiated,
depending on the client's, ah, virtuousness.
<> Not some church, and not the state,/ Not some dark
<> capricious fate./ Who you are, and when you lose,/ Comes
<> only from the things you choose.
<> -- Robert C. White Jr. (rwh...@nusdecs.uucp)
Mick Washbrook
>
> I believe that this is what St. Oscar referred to as
> airing one's clean linen in public.
>
> And it went on for several more posts, too.
>
Isn't that living proof that you can't keep a good man down?
Owen Rowley
> In article <39...@autodesk.COM> mi...@Autodesk.COM (Mick
> Washbrook) writes:
> >Owen is 43, and I am 28,
> Heavens, I would have thought he was younger than 43 and
> that you were older than 28. T'is but to marvel ...
I must say that Mick is considerably more mature than most in his age group,
I've met a friend of his from England, and some other British men and I am
beginning to suspect that our American lifestyles do not promote maturity
like British counterparts! Then again mayby I'm just a snob.
It's odd .. when I was in my twentys, I was in business with my father, and
he was one of those perpetual Peter Pan types.. he died at 55 from never
getting past habits he developed when he was 16. As a result i was required
to pay attention to business and be the *responsible partner*.. I guess I
just postponed MY adolescence, which I am enjoying NOW!
Thanx for the comment that I don't seem my age, I know I don't act it, and I
guess I don't really look it ( blonde/red hair has a youthenizing effect!)
But let me tell you I FEEL IT :-)
> >as long as he puts away his toys after he has played with
> >them, and doesn't scribble in my books, we get along fine. And
> >if he is bad, then he gets a jolly good spanking.
> When he is bad, you reward him? No wonder he likes you!
No wonder I'm BAD so often eh :-)
Robert Coren
|> In article <1991Apr17.0...@macc.wisc.edu>, ande...@dogie.macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
|> > In article <39...@autodesk.COM> mi...@Autodesk.COM (Mick
|> > Washbrook) writes:
|> > >Owen is 43, and I am 28,
|> > Heavens, I would have thought he was younger than 43 and
|> > that you were older than 28. T'is but to marvel ...
|> Thanx for the comment that I don't seem my age, I know I don't act it, and I
|> guess I don't really look it ( blonde/red hair has a youthenizing effect!)
Some people have all the luck. *My* red/brown hair was pretty well
totally gray well before I reached 43. Fortunately, the beard is there
as a reminder of what my hair "really" looks like. :-)
Robert
Ron Rizzo
>
Oo la la!
Ronald Rizzo
Randy Clark
r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (Rob Boldbear) writes:
>
>I might ask if he's having a good time, or if he's been there long, or
>even the proverbial "Do you come here often?" Don't worry about asking
>something as cliche as that. As long as you sound warm and honest, it
>will sound okay. Remember, the other guy's nervous like you are and
>he'll be glad *you're* taking the initiative to break the ice.
You're not kidding. Some years ago I was at a bar and a
very presentable young man sat down next to me. I noticed
him and then sat for several minutes racking my brain for
an opening line that might at least be different, if not
witty and engaging ... of course, as I should have expected,
I could only think of things like "Come here often?" So I
fretted and fumed until he turned to me and said ...
"Do you have the time?"
We had a very long and pleasant conversation after that.
It didn't actually lead to anything more, but I had learned
my lesson.
-R (Who's still really very shy.)
Rob Boldbear
>>>>it ranks a full 8 deciandersons or a good twenty sessions
>>>>with a topnotch therapist).
>>Thus by the equivalence above Mr. Boldbear is postulating
>>that an anderson is equal to 25 sessions with a topnotch
>>therapist.
>Now it's been some good little while since I was shelling
>out for therapy, and doubtless costs have risen, but I was
>paying $75 for 50 minutes. Does this mean I should expect a
>return of at least 25 times that for the kind of therapy I
>dispense?
Sorry, Jess, but the unit "anderson" refers to your entirety,
not an hour with you.
Jess Anderson
]ande...@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) wrote:
]>>>>it ranks a full 8 deciandersons or a good twenty sessions
]>>>>with a topnotch therapist).
]>>Thus by the equivalence above Mr. Boldbear is postulating
]>>that an anderson is equal to 25 sessions with a topnotch
]>>therapist.
]>Now it's been some good little while since I was shelling
]>out for therapy, and doubtless costs have risen, but I was
]>paying $75 for 50 minutes. Does this mean I should expect a
]>return of at least 25 times that for the kind of therapy I
]>dispense?
]Sorry, Jess, but the unit "anderson" refers to your entirety,
]not an hour with you.
Oh well, in that case, the service is free!
<> If you can't ask your friends to help you with shopping,
<> they really aren't your friends.
<> -- Greg Parkinson (g...@ibism.UUCP)
Paul D. Crowley
> "Do you have the time?"
I just had two successes in two consecutive days with the line "Hi, I'm
Paul. Who the fuck are you?"
____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley ai...@castle.ed.ac.uk \ /
/\__/ Part straight. Part gay. All queer. \/
Jess Anderson
(Paul D. Crowley) writes:
>I just had two successes in two consecutive days with the line "Hi, I'm
>Paul. Who the fuck are you?"
____
>/\__/ Part straight. Part gay. All queer. \/
Somewhat rude. Apparently lucky.
<> Vanilla Ice is a few cubes short of a full tray.
<> -- Evan Leibovitch (ev...@telly.on.ca)
Roger B.A. Klorese
>In article <1991Apr19.1...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US> r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (Rob Boldbear) writes:
>]Sorry, Jess, but the unit "anderson" refers to your entirety,
>]not an hour with you.
>
>Oh well, in that case, the service is free!
>
I assume then, that the "anderson" is a different unit of measure
from one we've been using around here: the "jessobyte," which is
equal to 120 80-character lines?
--
ROGER B.A. KLORESE MIPS Computer Systems, Inc.
MS 6-05 930 DeGuigne Dr. Sunnyvale, CA 94088 +1 408 524-7421
"10 years of Reagan/Bush have brought us to a new place: postconstitutional
America." - Jon Carroll rog...@mips.COM | {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!rogerk
Tezcatlipocateopixque
(Jess Anderson) writes:
>Somewhat rude. Apparently lucky.
I rather liked it, though I gave out the Great Pickup Line Award to
some guy out in front of the Castro Street Station a couple of years
ago. I was to meet someone (Harry, I think, or maybe STella, perhaps
Owen or Sharon ... well, whoever) elsewhere a bit later in the day and
was killing time. As I stood there, this man I had never seen before
walked up and said:
"Hi, are you the one with the skillet?"
"Excuse me?"
"Are you the one with the skillet. The cast iron skillet?"
"I don't think so."
"See, I was at this auction and I bought a bunch of stuff and had room
for everything except the skillet so the guy giving the auction said
he'd send this guy to the bar here to give it to me and I thought you
may have been him."
"No, I'm sorry."
"Well, would you like to come have a drink with me anyway?"
--
"Are you saying that I am judging those who use defamatory language
or make judgemental statements?"
-- Jeff Shaevel
Paul Crowley
>>I just had two successes in two consecutive days with the line "Hi, I'm
>>Paul. Who the fuck are you?"
>
Well, yes, I can't exactly guarantee it. It seems to break the ice, and
said in good humour it is taken in good humour. Maybe I should try
"Hello, what's _your_ favourite flightless bird?"
____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley ai...@castle.ed.ac.uk \ /
Jess Anderson
Klorese) writes:
>I assume then, that the "anderson" is a different unit of measure
>from one we've been using around here: the "jessobyte," which is
>equal to 120 80-character lines? ^^^^^^^^^
Cheeky as well as chalky-sounding, from the King of Kink himself.
Flatterer!
<> If at first you don't succeed, failure may be your style.
<> -- Quentin Crisp
Owen Rowley
> As I stood there, this man I had never seen before
> walked up and said:
>
> "Hi, are you the one with the skillet?"
> "Excuse me?"
> "Are you the one with the skillet. The cast iron skillet?"
Did he look like Paul Bartell?
I'd heard he was contemplating getting another one .. he didn't like cooking
in the one he and Mary were using to kill people!
"Would you like to come have a drink with me anyway?"
Thank goddess it wasn't an invitation to dinner!
(Is this another obscure dog joke?)
Laura Creighton
A friend of mine, who was 36 four years ago, took up with this young
thing of 21. They have been together 4 years now, whihc is nothing to
crow about but not shame either. Anbd they look set on spending the
rest of their lives together. So far both of them say that they want
it and the relationship seems to do all that each want....
But the two of them complain that the biggest
problem is their SF lesbian community. The elders complain to my friend
of ``robbing the cradle'' while the younger flirt with her lover -- also
my friend, albeit a newer one -- and keep making noises like ``what do
you see in an old fogie like that...).
They cannot retire from the fray because between the two of them they
run a successful bookstore/curio store ... and people will come in.
I just waondered if the make Gay community was so beset with relationship
breakers.
Just asking,
Laura
R
b
>I rather liked it, though I gave out the Great Pickup Line Award to
>some guy out in front of the Castro Street Station a couple of years
I was at a bar last week with the tattoo on my thigh exposed when a guy came
over and asked if I wanted to exercise my tattoo... I said "No thanks", and
ignored him. About 30 seconds later he said "I meant did you want to dance?"
I laughed - I knew that's what he meant but he must have thought I thought he
was propositioning me and was offended. Oh well - the answer was no either
way, so it really didn't matter.
Carol B.
Frederic Maffray
#(Paul D. Crowley) writes:
#
#>I just had two successes in two consecutive days with the line "Hi, I'm
#>Paul. Who the fuck are you?"
# ____
#>/\__/ Part straight. Part gay. All queer. \/
#
#Somewhat rude. Apparently lucky.
Jess, it looks like there still are some fine points of
sophisticated American Culture I have to explain to you...
There's a cartoon called The Simpsons. The kid is famous
for saying: "I'm Bart Simpson. Who the fuck are you?" That
line has been very popular last year, on tee-shirts, etc.
---
Frederic Maffray
"Et puis Mother Fucker veut dire that you are the Mother of all
Fuckers (in the Saddam sense)." -- W.A. Simon (al...@elevia.uucp)
Mara Chibnik
)I assume then, that the "anderson" is a different unit of measure
)from one we've been using around here: the "jessobyte," which is
)equal to 120 80-character lines?
But Jess doesn't use 80-character lines-- more like 60. So should
that be 120 60-character lines, or do we assume that lines are
normalized to 80-characters, and a jessobyte is 160 60-character
lines? (I mean, we really should be careful about these things,
shouldn't we? Otherwise people will think we don't know what we're
talking about.)
--
cmcl2!panix!mara Mara Chibnik ma...@dorsai.com
It can hardly be coincidence that no language on earth has ever
produced the expression "As pretty as an airport." --Douglas Adams
CSRI Distribution Manager
>problem is their SF lesbian community. The elders complain to my friend
>of ``robbing the cradle'' while the younger flirt with her lover -- also
>my friend, albeit a newer one -- and keep making noises like ``what do
>you see in an old fogie like that...).
I found Laura's posting interesting because it directly contradicts
my impressions of the women's community (at least in Toronto). These
days, silver in your hair is better than gold in your pockets. Older
women are besieged by younger women looking for everything from a quick
fling to a lifetime committment. Is this just a local annomally?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
Chris Stephenson dis...@turing.toronto.edu
"If I could have my way I would be running with the circus, I would be taming
all the lions. There'd be no denyin' I was brave..and crazy." Melissa Etheridge
David R. Preston
>some guy out in front of the Castro Street Station a couple of years
>ago.
>
Reminds me of being on the sidewalk on Castro and having the following
conversation:
"Oh, I love your beard. You are so handsome!"
-"Thanks"
"If you have blue eyes under those dark glasses, you're the man
of my dreams"
-<chuckle> "Oh, well"
Owen Rowley
>
> A friend of mine, who was 36 four years ago, took up with this young
> thing of 21. They have been together 4 years now, whihc is nothing to
> crow about but not shame either. Anbd they look set on spending the
> rest of their lives together. So far both of them say that they want
> it and the relationship seems to do all that each want....
I resemble that remark!
> But the two of them complain that the biggest
> problem is their SF lesbian community. The elders complain to my friend
> of ``robbing the cradle'' while the younger flirt with her lover -- also
> my friend, albeit a newer one -- and keep making noises like ``what do
> you see in an old fogie like that...).
I've gotten a lot of this, it's not restricted to the lesbian community.
When I tell people I took Mick *out* for his 21'st in the castro, craddle
robber is the kindest of the remarks i've heard in return!
I think the most annoying thing I often have to deal with is others who want
to flirt or date my lover and don't have enough consciousness to acknowledge
my existence. We are open in our relationship, and it takes no small
amount of work and communication to make such relationships work.
Others who push their personal agenda on one or the other (or both)
of us, do us no favors, and run the risk of eliminating themselves with
consistent inapropriate behavior. Whenever either of us makes a *new friend*
it means that some re-adjustment of familair territory must be made, this
can be delicate enough without someone outside the relationship excluding
the undesired half of a partnership from inclusion in the human race.
One of the quickest ways to get yourself written off my list is to try to
trash my lover behind his back.. I suspect ( and hope) that it's true for him
too.
> I just wondered if the male Gay community was so beset with relationship
> breakers.
i think there are a lot of unhappy people, people who've been badly treated
themselves, people who've been damaged by the burden that society makes us
operate under. Home wreckers have no exclusivity in the Queer community,
My priestess underwent a horendous experience with a home wrecker about
seven years ago and the fallout is still coming down from that one!
Erich the hahaha Mad
Hmm, I don't think I can beat that. At an O.T.O. meeting I went to
recently, I did have a handsome man, a Yoruba priest in robes and one
of those cute little tambourine hats come up to me and eclaim, "Oh, I
just love your energy!" in a fascinating African accent. Well, at least
I managed not to laugh in his face.
(Shit. What is the right word for a Orisha worshipping priest of the
Yoruba variety? So much for my erudition)
--
Erich the hahaha Mad
rick...@hawk.ulowell.edu AT&T: 508 453 1753 : USnail : Erich Rickheit KSC
If you think the whole of me/Is a little dark and : 85 Gershom Ave, #2
out of key,/You're correct;/There's nobody there. : Lowell, MA 01854
Wendy Thrash
>I found Laura's posting interesting because it directly contradicts
>my impressions of the women's community (at least in Toronto). These
>days, silver in your hair is better than gold in your pockets. Older
>women are besieged by younger women looking for everything from a quick
>fling to a lifetime committment. Is this just a local annomally?
Good Lord, I hope not! But just in case, ten thousand thanks
to all those who voted to have motss.con in Toronto.
Hmmm . . . come to think of it, the Cupcake has as mucy gray hair than I do.
Being with an older woman will do that, you know.
---
-Wendy T., who once again reminds you . . .
I'm not robbing the cradle, she's robbing the grave.
Wendy, the silver-haired wonder
In article <1991Apr23....@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> dis...@turing.toronto.edu (CSRI Distribution Manager) writes:
>my impressions of the women's community (at least in Toronto). These
>days, silver in your hair is better than gold in your pockets. Older
>women are besieged by younger women looking for everything from a quick
>fling to a lifetime committment. Is this just a local annomally?
Good Lord, I hope not! But just in case, ten thousand thanks
to all those who voted to have motss.con in Toronto.
Hmmm . . . come to think of it, the Cupcake has as much gray hair as I do.
John Fisher
> In article <98...@castle.ed.ac.uk> ai...@castle.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) writes:
> >In article <2814...@ThreeL.co.uk> j...@threel.co.uk (John Fisher) writes:
> >>In article <97...@castle.ed.ac.uk>,
> >
> >>wherever. And I can think of one or two other hombres it mightn't have
> >>gone down too well with.
>
> Errr... am I being dense, or just missing some concealed offensiveness
> (other, of course, than the swearing)... Why would this not have gone
> down too well?
We-e-ell. Not so much offensiveness, as aggression. In English, the
insertion of "the fuck" after any question word is a marker, most often, of
aggression. For example:
"Where the fuck are you?"
"What the fuck do you want?"
"Who the fuck has stolen my car?"
"When the fuck will you pay me?"
"How the fuck do you expect me to work without any disk space?"
and, in formal texts, no doubt:
"For whom the fuck tolls the bell?"
though not, however:
*"Which the fuck of us do you fancy most?"
Note that this may not be done with yes/no questions, even when nested:
*"I asked whether the fuck he'd leave me alone."
Occasionally, it may mark exasperation, rather than aggression, thus:
"Where the fuck's the hammer gone?"
"When the fuck will that bus come?"
Interestingly, the only item I can think of which alternates with "fuck"
in this collocation is "hell"; so we have
"Where the hell are you?"
etc, but not expected strings such as:
*"Where the damn are you?"
*"Where the shit are you?"
*"Where the bugger are you?"
despite the fact that in other collocations, "fuck" does alternate with,
for example, "damn":
"Frankly, my dear, I couldn't give a fuck."
> >And yes, I know there are people from whom this would have elicited a
> >punch in the mouth. I was pretty certain I wasn't speaking to one of
> >them when I said it.
> Again, why? Is the gay community really as affected by the kind of
> macho-bullshit mentality that is the scourge of society as a whole?
IMHO, someone who says "Who the fuck are you?" to inoffensive strangers is
so affected, or is acting as if they were (all except Paul, who I'm sure is
a lovely fluffy queer trot cuddly-bunny from every angle...)
As for myself, the last time I hit someone in anger I was about 8 years
old. But I'd have given Paul such a *look*...
--John
Catrin Rhys
There's is a linguist (Pesetsky) who has written a paper on this
(though he did use the rather more polite version - "what the hell").
Comparing the two question words "which" and "what" he says that
"which" is "discourse-linked" in that it usually involves presupposition
of information known to both speaker and hearer, whereas "what"
doesn't impose such a constraint.
"What book are you reading?" vs "Which book are you reading"
Of "what the hell" he says that the point of uttering "the hell" is
to express surprise so it is what he calls, I think, "aggressively
non-discourse linked".
So... you can't say
*"Which the fuck do you fancy most?"
because of the conflict between discourse-linked "which" and
non-discourse-linked "the fuck".
And I bet you really wanted to know that, eh?
cat
(lesbian linguist out and proud)
CSRI Distribution Manager
>Being with an older woman will do that, you know.
>---
>-Wendy T., who once again reminds you . . .
> I'm not robbing the cradle, she's robbing the grave.
Tell me about it Wendy, she's probably going gray just watching all the
baby dykes swarm around you with their hormones running! :)
Paul Crowley
>cat
>(lesbian linguist out and proud)
Yes, she's a linguist and she's _proud_ of it!
(I've already made the "cunning linguist" joke, haven't I? Anyway,
you've probably heard it before...)
____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley ai...@castle.ed.ac.uk \ /
Ron Rizzo
>
>Again, why? Is the gay community really as affected by the kind of
>macho-bullshit mentality that is the scourge of society as a whole?
Apparently. Consider the smug boast of the motsser who addressed
some people with "Who the fuck are you?" If that isn't pretty near
dead-center of either macho, bullshit, or both, I don't know what is.
Ronald Rizzo
Paul Crowley
>IMHO, someone who says "Who the fuck are you?" to inoffensive strangers is
>so affected, or is acting as if they were
All right, I'm sorry, I should never have taken that remark out of
context. It wasn't said with a straight face! Someday, I'll learn to
keep my mouth shut.
>(all except Paul, who I'm sure is a lovely fluffy queer trot
>cuddly-bunny from every angle...)
... steel toecap boots and all ...
cook lawrence 01316
I think with the proper delivery this kind of an opening line can be an
ice breaker. I think it is kind of a Bart Simpson remark and given with
a smile could be kind of amusing. I have had people use similarly point
blank lines on me and I have not been offended. I don't think I would use
such a remark myself as it isn't really my style.
Just my $0.02 worth!
Hello net.world! My second posting in a year! We're on a roll now!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
____ internet: lc...@x102a.ess.harris.com
Larry Cook \ / uucp: uunet!x102a!lcook
\/ phone: 407-729-3062
opinions my own.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
____ internet: lc...@x102a.ess.harris.com
Larry Cook \ / uucp: uunet!x102a!lcook
\/ phone: 407-729-3062
opinions my own.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jess Anderson
In article <63...@bbn.BBN.COM> rri...@bbn.com (Ron Rizzo)
writes:
>In article <24...@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> de...@els.ee.man.ac.uk
>(Colin Dente) writes:
>>Again, why? Is the gay community really as affected by the
>>kind of macho-bullshit mentality that is the scourge of
>>society as a whole?
I wouldn't see that as especially surprising, if it were
true. We don't deviate very significantly from most
societal norms (deviate and norm in their statistical
senses). My own impression is that gay men tend to be less
macho overall than straight men, but most of the terms in
this are highly subjective and probably not amenable to more
reliable measures.
>Apparently. Consider the smug boast of the motsser who
>addressed some people with "Who the fuck are you?" If that
>isn't pretty near dead-center of either macho, bullshit, or
>both, I don't know what is.
Now having met the perpetrator of that remark, I can at
least say that he's about as far from macho as I could
imagine, and it's hard for me to imagine his having had the
least base motive or intent to injure or offend. It's just
an ice-breaker, though not one I might use myself, but I'm
notoriously bad at such junctures anyway.
<> Children seldom misquote you. In fact, they usually
<> repeat word for word what you shouldn't have said.
<> -- unknown